• Nadal, Murray clash for Japan Open title

    10/8/11 10:05 PM | Ricky Dimon
    Nadal, Murray clash for Japan Open title The Japan Open held to form through the semis with the top four seeds advancing, and it did the same through the final. It's Rafael Nadal vs. Andy Murray for the title on Sunday.

    This may not be the high point of the tennis season when it comes to prestige, but a marquee matchup is on tap for Sunday afternoon in Tokyo.

    Rafael Nadal and Andy Murray will be squaring off for the 18th time in their careers when they do battle in the Japan Open final. Nadal is dominating the head-to-head series 13-4, but his advantage is just 6-4 on hard courts.

    The two competitors have already faced each other four times this season, with Nadal prevailing on all four occasions. The world No. 2 triumphed in competitive matches at the Monte-Carlo Masters, the French Open, and Wimbledon before most recently scoring a 6-4, 6-2, 3-6, 6-2 in the U.S. Open semifinals.

    For Murray, that loss is his only blemish in his last 21 matches dating back to the start of the Cincinnati Masters, which he won by getting past Novak Djokovic in the final. After his fortnight in New York, the fourth-ranked Scot won a pair of Davis Cup singles rubbers then captured the Bangkok title last week. Murray is 49-11 for the year following victories in Tokyo over Marcos Baghdatis, Alex Bogomolov, David Nalbandian, and David Ferrer.

    Just as Murray bounced back after his U.S. Open defeat, Nadal has righted the ship in the wake of another crushing loss to Djokovic in the Flushing Meadows final. The Spaniard rolled through two Davis Cup matches against France before maintaining the momentum this week. His trip to the title match featured straight-set dismissals of Go Soeda, Milos Raonic, Santiago Giraldo, and Mardy Fish. Nadal is 65-11 for his 2011 campaign and remains within remote striking distance of Djokovic for the year-end No. 1 ranking.

    "I think it will be a very difficult match," Nadal said of Sunday's showdown. "(Murray) is doing very well, winning last week in Bangkok and now into another final. I will have to play my best tennis to have any chance. It’s a big challenge playing against him."

    It's a challenge Nadal is clearly favored to win based on past history, although the 13-4 series lead is not indicative of the true rivalry. Murray, who is also in the doubles final with his brother Jamie, has a real shot and could pull off the win if he serves well and can prevent his opponent from dictating rallies.

    Murray is 3-1 in finals this season, while Nadal is 3-6. Nadal, though, is 0-6 against Djokovic and 3-0 against everyone else. Look for the trend to continue with a three-set, high-quality win for the No. 1 seed.

    Find the latest tennis odds at

Tell a friend »


oh, Ricky, I would rather see a straight set victory for Rafa...a deciding third set is always so demanding both on my body and my soul, and so tense to watch...Only this year those "third sets" cost me years of my life...I sure don't wish to go though the similar situation again...but, given how successful you have been in predicting these finals I have no choice but to prepare myself for another thriller...well, tennis menu is offering us the "specialty of the day"...VAMOS RAFA!!!

natashao , 10/9/11 1:18 AM

Murray is going to win this in 2. Nadal,with the way he has been playing,really has no shot at taking this one.

ChicaMarie , 10/9/11 2:11 AM


Weren't you the genius who predicted Fish to win over Rafa in straight sets? At least if you are going to be wrong again, it's good to be consistently wrong!

Nativenewyorker , 10/9/11 3:35 AM

no, ChicaMarie is the genius who said Fish would win EVEN if he played BAD! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

RickyDimon , 10/9/11 3:43 AM

Nativenewyorker,you are one of the biggest Nadal tards on here. You never look at his game objectively,and seem to watch him play from behind rose colored glasses. Nadal did nothing spectacular yesterday to beat an error riddled Fish. He played short as usual,was running around 10 feet behind the baseline,was defensive,could barely win a point on Mardy's serve for several games in a row,and served like garbage. Nadal was very fortunate that Mardy played like sh*t,and imploded at 5 all in the first set,because Nadal wasn't doing jack against him until then.

Oh,and since you seem to believe you are the oracle on Nadal,and write long drawn out narratives about him in nearly every post you write,I guess that only you know best. You are a hopeless tard,and because of that will never see all the things that are wrong with Nadal's game no matter if it fell out of the sky and wriggled around on your face. You just keep believing he is playing stellar tennis when he loses his 7th final of the year to Murray. And don't forget to make all kinds of excuses for him when it happens.

ChicaMarie , 10/9/11 5:12 AM


You obviously didn't read Ricky's comment in response to mine! So I am not the only one who finds your predictions rather ridiculous and tinged with your bias against Rafa.

As for the use of the word "tard", well in your case I will consider the source. It would also appear that you read my posts rather selectively. If you read my comments about Rafa's match against Giraldo, then you would have seen that I gave some honest criticism about his tactics and game.

However, your analysis of Rafa's performance against Fish has about as much to do with reality as your predictions.

Maybe you should take a look at yourself before you throw accusations at others.

Nativenewyorker , 10/9/11 5:29 AM

ChicaMarie - I won't delete your comments or ban you for being ridiculous (see most recent comment, which clearly shows you did not watch the match), but I will do so for personal attacks and you are dangerously close to entering that realm.

You said Fish would win even if he played bad. Well, he played bad. He certainly didn't play terrible. Nadal played well and played smart. If you did not watch the match, please don't comment as a biased Nadal hater.

RickyDimon , 10/9/11 5:48 AM

Bravo Ricky.

There are several other threads which would also benefit from a spring clean for the same reason. lol.

NNY: Good response.

ed251137 , 10/9/11 6:26 AM

Thank you Ricky..................hopefully ALL posters who specialise in hurling insults at Rafans will take note: NO PERSONAL INSULTS ALLOWED!!!

rafaisthebest , 10/9/11 7:24 AM


edit, now 3-1

RickyDimon , 10/9/11 7:38 AM

Vamos Rafa!

nadline , 10/9/11 7:42 AM

4-2....murray playing better now...

vrael , 10/9/11 7:48 AM

woaah...murray just woke up...he is making rafa run a lot

vrael , 10/9/11 7:54 AM

important hold for rafa...5-2...lets break him again..VAAAAMOS

vrael , 10/9/11 7:57 AM

entertaining stuff

RickyDimon , 10/9/11 8:06 AM

!st Rafa 63.

Vamos Rafa!

nadline , 10/9/11 8:06 AM


natashao , 10/9/11 8:07 AM

finish it in two rafa VAAMOS!!

vrael , 10/9/11 8:07 AM

The main difference between them is the serve. Rafa serving well, awful opening service game for Andy.
Come on Andy! Wake up!

deuce , 10/9/11 8:08 AM

rafa in trouble...murray thumping the ball

vrael , 10/9/11 8:33 AM

Murray playing some solid ball

RickyDimon , 10/9/11 8:37 AM

two horrendous shots in succession by Nadal leads to a break

RickyDimon , 10/9/11 8:40 AM


vrael , 10/9/11 8:41 AM

three aces in a row...way to erase 3 bp's

vrael , 10/9/11 8:44 AM


RickyDimon , 10/9/11 8:50 AM

Vamos Rafa!

nadline , 10/9/11 8:50 AM

This is punishing tennis from both of them. I keep thinking about Murray having to come straight back on court to play doubles.

ed251137 , 10/9/11 8:51 AM

rafa is playing so behind the baseline....not helping his cause

vrael , 10/9/11 8:58 AM

Why does Rafa always ease up when he is in front. He should have kept up his intensity to win the 2nd set.

Vamos Rafa!

nadline , 10/9/11 9:06 AM

OMG is anyone watching this...very, very crowded bhind the sofas!
Come on Andy! Maintain your form, don't give in!

deuce , 10/9/11 9:07 AM

murray clearly the superior out of the two at the moment....

vrael , 10/9/11 9:17 AM

i have never seen Nadal get abused like this, not even by the Djoker

RickyDimon , 10/9/11 9:18 AM

Hmmmmmm.....sounds like my Rafa is in for a hiding.......not watching the match......


rafaisthebest , 10/9/11 9:20 AM

Deuce you didn't notice me creeping out of the back door - I'm having a cigarette in the garden.

ed251137 , 10/9/11 9:21 AM

Rafa stopped attacking for reasons known to himself.

Vamos Rafa!

nadline , 10/9/11 9:23 AM

Rafa's game fell appart...Murray is outplaying him completely..unbelievable...

natashao , 10/9/11 9:23 AM

Yes, I did ed..and you don't even smoke :)
Have NO nails left!!!

deuce , 10/9/11 9:24 AM

anhilation...what a sad year.

vrael , 10/9/11 9:25 AM

Deuce: You know I amvery happy to see Andy win but not by totally humiliating poor Rafa :-((

ed251137 , 10/9/11 9:27 AM

one of the biggest blowouts i have ever witnessed

RickyDimon , 10/9/11 9:31 AM

Is this a horror movie or something?

Vamos Rafa!

nadline , 10/9/11 9:31 AM

btw: please ask Andy to remember he and Rafa are friends and not to pile on the agony by handing him a bagel.

ed251137 , 10/9/11 9:33 AM

andy is abusing nadal. feel sorry for the spaniard.

tj600 , 10/9/11 9:33 AM

I am lost for words.

nadline , 10/9/11 9:34 AM

Sensational tennis from Andy TWO days running! What's going on? Darling Andy, well done :)
Comms to Rafa fans. No intention of gloating, you'll be glad to know :) Too happy :)

deuce , 10/9/11 9:42 AM

As a Rafa fan, I'm not gonna sit and pretend all is fine and dandy, when it definitely isn't. Suddenly, he's forgotten how to win finals, he's forgotten how to maintain his focus and concentration, and here it is, he's now lost a 7th final this season. It's crystal clear, the problems he's having, extend far beyond Djokovic.

The mental toughness that has long been a key to Rafa's success, is definitely missing. The serve has been very inconsistent. The shot selection has been rather poor in key situations. Nadal is far too good a player to lose the way he did to Murray today. That was one of his worst performances this year by far.

I definitely wanna know, how is the Nadal camp planning to solve the ongoing problems Rafa's having? Why wait until next year? Solve the problems NOW!!!!!

djb247365 , 10/9/11 9:42 AM

this will be tough to handle for Rafa...complete humiliation...the curse of finals is hunting Rafa...I hope he is able to recover from this soon...such a sad moment for Rafans...

Andy was really stunning...such a great game from him...Congrats to his fans...

natashao , 10/9/11 9:43 AM

nadline..what happened out there? How did Rafa get blown away so totally after winning the 1st set?

Getting a bagel is really not good..

Anyways congrats Andy..2 titles in a row..he now has 4 titles for the year and Rafa still stuck at 3 (:-..Cmon Rafa atleast 5 for the year though looks doubtful here on..

sanju , 10/9/11 9:43 AM

No excuses please from anyone! Andy was playing inspired tennis in set 2 and 3 and Rafa unravelled. Have never seen him look so crushed - not even when he lost at Wimbledon.

ed251137 , 10/9/11 9:45 AM

I expected Andy to take this..though not this way (:-

Its clear somethings wrong with Rafa..7 finals losses this year..unheard of ..

sanju , 10/9/11 9:47 AM Japan_Open_title

RickyDimon , 10/9/11 9:50 AM

I would rate 2011 as even worse than 2009 for Rafa..atleast he played unbelievable in 2009 for first 5 months..he won like 1 GS, 3 masters and 1-2 other titles..

In 2009 he had a problem in 2nd half against Top 10 players and atleast there was a family collapse reason and injury issues....this year hes making finals and losing them all one after the other..

sanju , 10/9/11 9:52 AM

Congratulations to Andy, deuce and co., I did not watch the match but sounds like a well-deserved win for Andy.

About Rafa.................getting to so many finals and losing is not good, not good at all. He needs to do something about it, what.....I do not know. Having said that, I have full confidence in Rafa and his team. They know something needs to be done.

Clearly his opponents, Nole and Muzza, have been excellent in the matches, not taking anything away from them but still, Rafa needs to look to himself............7 finals losses is not good. Whilst other players would kill just for having been in the finals, for Rafa this is not good enough, the win-loss ratio is too lop-sided in favour of the losses.


rafaisthebest , 10/9/11 9:55 AM

I am shocked and disappointed in how this match played out. I really expected it to be another one of their spectacular performances. It was not to be. No clue as to what is going on with Rafa. However, Andy played brilliant tennis to win and it is well deserved.

Congratulations to Andy's fans, deuce, alex, all of you!

Nativenewyorker , 10/9/11 10:05 AM

it must be tough to lose 7 finals...but Rafa did not seem that bothered with it during the ceremony, his smile was beautiful...he looked so cute out there...maybe his acting skills have just improved so he was not showing his emotions...or he is simply used to losing finals by now and knows how to
For sure Andy deserved to win this, he was great out there, adopting Nole's recipe on how to beat Rafa...and he has great chances to win doubles as well..fantastic...Bravo Andy!

natashao , 10/9/11 10:12 AM

No way in the world would I have ever thought at this point of the season both Djokovic and Murray would have more titles than Rafa and Fed. Very strange if you ask me. Who would've predicted? This just makes it official, that 2011 has been one of the wildest and strangest seasons I've ever seen. I'm definitely ready for the season to end now. Already looking forward to 2012.

djb247365 , 10/9/11 10:16 AM

nadal still hasn't defended a non clay title. Nadal is one of the greatest clay courters and that's it. He's not even in the discussion for the GOAT debate.

Nadal is not the same anymore. The sooner people get that in their heads the better for them. Nadal has lost the killer instinct, one of the few qualities that put him aside from others.

bleck , 10/9/11 10:19 AM

Not surprised at Rafa's cheery attitude during the trophy presentations.......................I am convinced that was genuine affection for Muzza's win. Rafa truly likes and admires Muzza and one sensed in his past pronouncements it really saddened that Muzza has not goten much respect, especially in the Slams. I suspect Rafa would rather lose to Muzza than anyone else.

Having said that, I am cross with Rafa.......................all these losses in finals this year are simply not good enough............time for laughs is over. Not funny at all.....

rafaisthebest , 10/9/11 10:24 AM

Bleck when the decline contiues the way it goes. Rogers best shot at slamsucces will be at Garros. Roger has find a new path and new ways to go forward in tennis. His new style with Annacone is starting to set in. Next year they will certainly be fully equipt and ready to go for the big ones again. With Rafa on this steap way down his allround claycourt game will be the perfect style of taking care of Garros just like 2009.

Sienna , 10/9/11 10:25 AM

Ah least he is giving joy to one predicltable sect................the Fedfans!

Enjoy Rafa's "decline" while it lasts, Fedfans..................sigh......

rafaisthebest , 10/9/11 10:28 AM

So, now Fed is the favorite to win FO?! A 30 year old is expected to run all over the place and chase balls on the clay? Yeah, sure..

Rafa lost today to a better player...if he is to lose in the future that means that there are better players than him out there...and this is a HC which by default diminishes Rafa's chances for a win against HC best players and Murray is certainly one of them...I don't think Rafa should take too much from this loss as he clearly was far beyond his level in the third set and what is more relevant I did not see that look in his eyes which says: "I am going to fight for this one"...he was simply flat and non-enthusiastic in this whole match...and I did not see him celebrating any of his points ...not that he had some to celebrate in the third though, but still...some encouragement would not hurt...

It?s a worry but it is nothing new...we know Rafa's confidence is at zero level so losing like this was quite possible given how well Murray played...

natashao , 10/9/11 10:47 AM

RINTB we are just discussing the current state of affairs in tennis. Obviously we are unbiased in this particular case while Fed is not playing. So we do not have to deal with the loss in order to get our views on thing that happened today in the second and third set. We see thing a lot clearer then you guys do, but it must be hard to see your favorite fall that hard.

Sienna , 10/9/11 10:54 AM

^^^^^sienna, you do not have to explain yourself to me, darling. Gloat your heart out........we expect that from you.

Tomorrow, we Rafans will be over today's loss and will be cheering our boy on in Shanghai! You? will still be swimming in anti-Rafa bile, dreaming of(or shall we say, hoping for) his "decline"! No prizes for guessing who is in a healthier state of mind....................

rafaisthebest , 10/9/11 11:05 AM

So sorry you feel this way. I certainly do not enjoy the current state of Rafa. I am not sure where you see me gloating? If so I think it is misinterpreted by you. Or are you me? and you know what I feel and do? Arrogant nadanino you are.

I see thing very clear and with no disrespect to any of the top players.
If Murray gets to third it is deserved. Fed should have won semi against Djoker and he missed out on 1300 points. It is good that a miss like that is punished the way it is being done. But there is not much difference between 3or 4. there is muche differance between 4or 5 and 2 or 3 So it is only a bit of pride to swallow away. And I am sure Fed will have great chances to win WTC and upcomming slams. A litle luck is all that he needs and he is dew for some .. I feel next year it all fallsinto place.

Sienna , 10/9/11 11:42 AM

Federer should have won the semi? He has a God-given right to win, is that it? I think, in the same way, Roddick equally deserved to win the Wimbledon 2009 final, because he didn't challenge when Federer hit a ball long on break point at 14 all in the fifth. Should have been 15-14 Roddick but that's the way it goes, isn't it?

samprallica , 10/9/11 12:05 PM

Its raining cats and dogs outside but Im just glowing with sunshine today, Andy youve made me and others very happy (deuce,alex and sosueme though we haven`t seen him for a while?) :))))

mojo , 10/9/11 3:19 PM

"If Murray gets to third it is deserved."Sienna
, 10/9/11 11:42 AM

Funny......................I said words to the same effect on another thread and your fellow Fedfan, bleck, accused me of saying it to spite Fed, or words to that effect!


rafaisthebest , 10/9/11 3:43 PM

Sienna, don't take rafaisthebest post seriously. In fact I wrote a post very similar to yours in the sense that #3 or #4 draw wose is the same and it doesn't have any difference. Also I acknowledged that in fact murray has had better results than roger this year (YTD rankings don't lie).

Funny and sad how rafaisthebestfollowedbymurray is trying to turn the few fed fans here against each other.

bleck , 10/9/11 5:15 PM

That is the difference between the Nadaninos and the federer fans. We all have out own idea's about the situation. We do not have a controlled mindpolice thatcorrects the hell out of evryone and anybody. When Luckystar is feeling a bit reasonable and gives his thoughts about Rafa he is in the midle of a catfight.

I have the respect for all the players and for the game oif tennis. It is one of the hardest sports around. Whenever a player gets to a certain place or ranking luck is sort or less fouled out by the hard year it took to reach that level or place.

But 3or 4 does not make a big difference at all and I am sure bleck read something more in youre comments because he is not the person to accuse you for no reason at all. I find belck one of the most integer people who post on this site and you do wise to stay from troubling youreself to insinuate something about him or me.


Sienna , 10/9/11 5:15 PM

bleck nice ;-) and as a bonus we have proven to be not the same.

Sienna , 10/9/11 8:35 PM

bleck , 10/9/11 10:25 PM

Nobody said so, but on this site it is proof when two people post a comment in the same minute then that is beyond reasonable doubt because of 45 sec rule.
So I had the samewith Fleur because we where being linked together. The nadaninos think there is onlyone Fedfan on this site or in the world. He is not well liked as you havefound out for yourself on TT.

Sienna , 10/9/11 11:22 PM

so bleck is still on about the rankings...burdened with thinking of how Murray will overtake Fedss No3 much of the story: "I don't care which position is Fed on; No3 or No4 it is the same"...yeah, sure...your above post speaks for itself...

bleck, your sleepless nights are about to begin...and when you finally manage to fall asleep after taking numerous pills you will start dreaming about...guess who? Andy Murray of course...he is getting closer and closer...your worst nightmare...

natashao , 10/10/11 12:11 AM

^^^That's preposterous! Fedfans aren't having nightmares about Murray. Rafa probably is after winning 4 points in the final set, all on Murray unforced errors btw. First Nole now Murray lol.

numero , 10/10/11 2:34 AM

^^^^^now watch numero and his fellow Fedfans suddenly "adopt" Muzza and become fans............professional contortionists would be proud!

natashao, sleepless nights? They are having fits!...................sad. All they are now reduced to doing is hounding Rafans...............................narry a post about their "hero"........

rafaisthebest , 10/10/11 6:17 AM

Also I acknowledged that in fact murray has had better results than roger this year (YTD rankings don't lie).

, 10/9/11 5:15 PM

So you agree with me Muzza is the de facto #3.................great! can be reasonable if you let the anti-Rafa bile wash off..................hahahaha!!

Just accept that Fed has had a good innings, time for the young 'uns to take over, no shame in that................

rafaisthebest , 10/10/11 6:34 AM

Fed had atleast 4 innings where he hit komeruns while the bases where loaded.
SO his team is so far ahead, they are just keeping the innings nice andtigth with the relief pitcher. Fed himself is happy to hit the ball out of the park once in a while.

Sienna , 10/10/11 8:15 AM

numero, Rafa losing to Murray can hardly be a good thing for you...maybe you are simply facing the truth and having a revelation time, which inevitably leads to your deserting your idol as you become aware of the fact that he is leaving the scene...and now Andy, Nole or Dodig...who will it be? Who will be honored to become your new favorite? turning the page, ha? Here are some morning press excerpts for you...

Thrilling victory means Briton will be world No 3 if he retains Shanghai title this week

Murray has set himself the goal of replacing Roger Federer at No 3 in the world rankings before the end of the year and will achieve his target if he successfully defends his title at this week's Shanghai Masters.

Nadal added: "Only a few players could have beaten Murray today. I just want to congratulate Andy because I was really impressed by his tennis. He was unstoppable."

natashao , 10/10/11 8:35 AM

^^^^always a class act our Rafa..............just like his fans................

rafaisthebest , 10/10/11 8:56 AM

"so bleck is still on about the rankings...burdened with thinking of how Murray will overtake Fedss No3 much of the story: "I don't care which position is Fed on; No3 or No4 it is the same"...yeah, sure...your above post speaks for itself..."

natashao, you seem to not be understanding my point of view even though I've written several post about it. This is my final try although I don't have high expectations it will work. I keep writing about it because of people like you who keep writing statements as above which are false.
For me #3 or #4, at this point, is really irrelevant since draw wise it's the same and since ferrer is far from #4 i don't see anyone in the near future threatning the top 4.
As I also already posted what I want is for roger to reach number 2 (or #1, but it will be hard) so the less points nadal wins the better even if it means murray surpassing roger. Had nadal won #3 would be less threatned for roger but the gap between him and nadal would be wider.

"So you agree with me Muzza is the de facto #3.................great! can be reasonable if you let the anti-Rafa bile wash off..................hahahaha!!"

rafaisthebest, I keep repeating myself but either you don't seem to understand or you don't want to understand. YTD ranking (aka ATP Race) is what it is, the points won on a given calendar year. The rankings are different from the race because they take into account the past 52 weeks tournament results. Roger had a great end of the season last year (won Stockholm, basel and WTF, finals in shangai, semis in Paris) so obviously he is in the #3 position. Murray is #3 in the race because this year he has had better results than roger. I as opposed to some other players fans can admit things and see the situations even if they're not favourable to roger.
So i don't agree with you that murray is #3 he is #4 (check the rankings section in the ATP website). What I find amazing is that people come up with such nonsense as saying the race is now the rankings which is false.
Also what has this subject have to with nadal?! We are discussing murray's ranking and you say I'm reasonable when I'm not acting anti-rafa?! This isn't about nadal, why are you even mentioning nadal?!

"Only a few players could have beaten Murray today. I just want to congratulate Andy because I was really impressed by his tennis. He was unstoppable."

Yes natashao, Murray played great. But I've never seen nadal give up on a match as that last set showed. His face and attitude was like he knew he was beaten.

bleck , 10/10/11 9:46 AM

bleck, I must say I agree with you regarding Rafa's attitude at this disappointing for me to see such lack of enthusiasm, no fighting spirit, giving up on the match motivation to make a change, no attempt to come up with some new tactics. Just pure handover...but I don't feel sorry for him! It's probably good that Murray beat him this way, now Rafa gets to start thinking about his tennis more seriously...I guess Toni will have something to say about it...

natashao , 10/10/11 11:54 AM

@ 11:54am I wouldnt want to be in his shoes this morning when U. Toni debriefs him on that match.

ed251137 , 10/10/11 2:27 PM

numero, Rafa losing to Murray can hardly be a good thing for you...natashao, 10/10/11 8:35 AM

For me? Huh? I don't take these kind of things personally like you and some of your cohorts do. As for Roger, I wouldn't say it's a bad thing. As bleck has explained, it's critical for Roger to hold onto #4. I wonder if Rafa fans realize that if Murray continues with this form, that he'll reach #2 in the black of an eye....Rafa's eye that is!

numero , 10/10/11 2:42 PM

so numero, now "it's critical for Roger to hold onto #4"...your expectations are going down by day...who would see this coming? You of all to think that way?! I am surprised. It won't be long until you start saying: "it's critical for Roger to hold onto #5...#10...but who cares...ranking is irrelevant indeed...

And believe me, I do realize that if Rafa continues playing lousy tennis like yesterday it will be inevitable for Murray to overtake No2...if that happens as much as Andy may be brilliant it will be equally Rafa's fault to let the things unfold that way...if he is unable to produce better tennis than yesterday he sure then does not deserve to be No2...he might as well go home and turn his focus on fishing...But even then I will still worship him no matter what...


natashao , 10/10/11 3:47 PM

Well,looks like I was right even if I predicted a straight set win for Murray(it pretty much was). Oh,and how pathetic is it to threaten to ban someone for daring to point out another poster's bias. If what I said almost gets me banned this place is just way too tame for me.

ChicaMarie , 10/11/11 3:39 AM

I wouldnt want to be in his shoes this morning when U. Toni debriefs him on that match.

ed251137, 10/10/11 2:27 PM

Why? Is Toni gonna beat him with the belt? Honestly, I think he is a grown man and can take it and dish it out by now.

numero , 10/11/11 4:08 AM

Someone clearly did not get the message yet. Someone also has not realized that the problem is with themselves. Getting warned about being banned on this site is not something to be taken lightly.

Nativenewyorker , 10/11/11 4:41 AM

"I wonder if Rafa fans realize that if Murray continues with this form, that he'll reach #2 in the black of an eye....Rafa's eye that is!"

numero, It's true that if murray manages to have a good AO and then a good IW and Miami he may surpass nadal since nadal has 2 finals to defend, but it will also depend on wether nadal will lose points in the WTF or not and murray win some or not. We'll be able to conjecture better when this season ends.

What I think that some nadal fans don't get is that federer basically gave nadal this year's FO. Had federer not beaten nadal I'm pretty sure we would be looking at a calendar year GS right now. Federer led 5-2 set point in the first set and won the third. We all know the match up issues federer has with nadal and the mental block (wasted a set point). Had djokovic reached the final he would at least have a very good chance. Yes we can only guess what would have happened, we'll never know.

It's good for nadal that federer stays in the top 4 so he can take out djokovic in the semis given that the draws are almost always djokovic/federer and nadal/murray. Uncle T said in a recent interview that had federer converted one of the match points nadal would have had a better shot, and that I don't think anyone can disagree with.

bleck , 10/11/11 9:47 AM

bleck, if you observe things that way, saying that Fed handed over Nadal this year's FO we can also argue that Fed has taken away the USO from Rafa...If Fed was able to beat Nole in the semis, Rafa would most certainly have two GS under his belt this, please, don't play this "if' game, because it is all hypothetical and does not make much sense...

natashao , 10/11/11 10:19 AM

"bleck, if you observe things that way, saying that Fed handed over Nadal this year's FO we can also argue that Fed has taken away the USO from Rafa...If Fed was able to beat Nole in the semis, Rafa would most certainly have two GS under his belt this, please, don't play this "if' game, because it is all hypothetical and does not make much sense..."

Of course. I think that had federer won the semis in the US Open nadal would have had a very good shot at winning the title, certainly better chance than agianst djokovic. The same way, nadal had a better chance at winning RG playing against roger than playing against djokovic. I think almost everyone would agree on this 2 statements.

You're just validating what I'm saying which is nadal fans should just pray that federer sticks around to take out nadal nemesis.

"so, please, don't play this "if' game, because it is all hypothetical and does not make much sense..."
I'm only speculating of course it's hypothetical. But saying that nadal would have struggled more against djokovic than roger in the RG final and that nadal would have had a better shot at winning the US Open final against federer than djokovic for me it makes sense. Does it make sense to you?

bleck , 10/11/11 10:49 AM

' this place is just way too tame for me.'
ChicaMarie, 10/11/11 3:39 AM

this remark tells you everything about his/her motivation.

ed251137 , 10/11/11 10:59 AM

Welcome ChicaMarie do not let yourself be hold back by ednumbers. He is a devil in disguise.

Sienna , 10/11/11 11:18 AM

bleck, saying that Nadal would have struggled against Djokovic in FO final is only speculation and we will never know...I must remind you that Nole made a statement after he beat Rafa in Rome saying that his expectations are to reach No1 and next to win Wimby...he was not even considering winning FO, maybe because he thought Rafa would still be better than him in the FO final...Nole was under pressure and that is mainly why he lost to Fed in the semis...Nole was playing way beyond his level the whole what makes you think that he would have found his best game in the finals? I doubt it! Rafa would have still beaten him, those favors you talk about are just speculations which will never be proved you better let it go...

and yes, Fed is important for the game and I really want him to stick around...I love to watch him play...but, it makes really no favor to Rafa, because Rafa may end up playing Fed in the semis which means a difficult match for Rafa because I consider Fed a dangerous player and I always will...and Rafa in return even when he wins will have to be tired in the, that means that Nole or Murray will have an easier path, not, again, all of this is just speculation and making assumptions like that really does not make sense to me...

natashao , 10/11/11 11:35 AM

natashao, We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I don't think djokovic was playing bad tennis during the tournament and certainly not in the semis. Federer played near God mode and only that allowed him to take out Djokovic.
Matchup is as important as level of play, I believe Djokovic would have troubled nadal more than federer did. You don't. Opinions.

Yes nadal may end up playing roger in the semis but you know as I do that Djokovic has been constantly falling in federer's side of the draw, much more often than in nadal's side of the draw. But that can change obviously.

"just speculations which will never be proved you better let it go..."

Speculations are speculations. However there are some speculations where a large number of people can agree. For example if I say that had Federer played Hewitt in the AO 2005 final (roger wasted a MP in the semis) he would have won. I guess a large amount of people would agree with me. the same way I think a large amount of people agree that Djokovic would ahve given nadal more trouble and possibly win the final at RG.

bleck , 10/11/11 1:57 PM

"possibly win the final at RG"...exactly, that's all I am will never know for sure...anyway, I like it the way it was..:) And I must admit that I was cheering for Fed in that semi...:)

natashao , 10/11/11 2:15 PM

thanks for congrats to nny and all rafa's bighearted followers. commies to rafa and fans, but he'll be back to his winning ways before long.
muzz soooo needed this before the year was out. i can't believe that, having suffered thru all their previous matches this year, i had to be on holiday and miss this one ... but can't find it in me to be sad.

alex , 10/15/11 12:11 AM


You are more than welcome. Andy is on a nice run and building momentum for 2012. I have faith that Rafa will get it all sorted out. I know that if Rafa had to lose to someone, then it would be Andy! :)

Nativenewyorker , 10/15/11 1:41 AM

I doubt Nole will win the FO final against Rafa, simply because this is the one last frontier that Rafa will defend till death. He'll never allow what happened in 2009 to happen to him again, at least not yet, until maybe he past his prime! Playing and winning five sets on clay against Rafa is different from playing him on grass and hard courts.

Rafa is to blamed for getting himself into such mental state against Nole now. Had he held his nerves in the IW and Miami finals, and continued playing his game instead of feeling nervous, that Nole would return all his serves(at IW) and feeling mentally and physically drained (in Miami), he might win one of those and things may be very different now. He has let the problem snowballed into an even bigger problem for him now. Just have to wait and see how he goes about solving this big problem.

luckystar , 10/15/11 3:50 AM

One more thing to add, on clay to get past one of Fed or Nole in the SF and then have to beat Rafa in the final, it's almost impossible to do, especially at the FO. Fed can't do it this year. Only Rafa can beat Nole and then Fed, consecutively on clay. (eg FO 2007,2008. Also Hamburg 2008). On hard courts and in slams, so far, only Delpo and Nole can beat both Fed and Rafa consecutively enroute to winning the slam.

luckystar , 10/15/11 4:04 AM

^^^You're assuming too much here. What if Rafa slips to #3 and has to face Nole in the SF? Plus you're being nostalgic bringing up 2007 and 2008. It's a different Nole these days remember?

Not to mention Nole will fight to the death to get the FO crown, the last GS to complete his career GS. Plus he did go 4-0 in sets against Rafa on clay this year. There is no assumption that Rafa will win FO unless Nole drops off dramatically.

numero , 10/15/11 4:13 AM

luckystar , 10/15/11 7:18 AM

And yes I do agree with natashao, that Nole looked vulnerable during the FO, especially against Delpo in the third round. He was so agitated during the match. I felt that had it not for the failing light, Delpo might stretch Nole to five sets then but Nole would still win in the end. No doubt Fed played a superb match against Nole in the semifinal, in fact it may be his best match this year, but I do feel that Nole was feeling all the strain and pressure on his mind and body; and even if he got past Fed, he won't beat Rafa in the final in conditions like that.

Now if he were to play against Murray in the semifinal, I'm really not sure about the outcome for that one, after seeing how good Murray could be against Nole in Rome. Nole might win that one but be stretched both physically and mentally. Rafa vs Fed, the outcome was always the same at RG, so Rafa might still have enough left to handle Nole in the final.

Now come 2012, who knows what will happen, anyone's guess is as good as anyone else's guess, so no point arguing over it now.

luckystar , 10/15/11 7:36 AM

@numero, I get what you're saying. Novak will fight with all he's got to win the FO in 2012 to get the career slam.; I agree.

scoretracker , 10/15/11 7:54 AM


You make some good points, but in the end it's all speculation. We know Rafa's dominance at this event. It speaks for itself. However, we are a long way off from that slam and a lot can happen.

I don't think it's about what Nole does. I think it's all about Rafa. If he wants to break Borg's record and can bring the game that has already won him six titles, he will win.

Nativenewyorker , 10/15/11 8:00 AM

You see NNY, I'm talking about FO 2011, after reading the exchanges between natashao and bleck. As I've mentioned, who knows what will happen in 2012 and at the FO. It's still early days, this season has not ended yet. We have to wait till when 2012 comes and when we see how the players play before we can have a better idea. Of course they'll fight out there to win the slams, be it Fed, Rafa, Nole or Murray.

If Murray can continue with his good run now till the end of the year, come 2012 he may finally get his acts together successfully and make his assault at the slams. We shall see what will happen come 2012.

luckystar , 10/15/11 8:21 AM

so bleck is still on about the rankings...burdened with thinking of how Murray will overtake Fedss No3 much of the story: "I don't care which position is Fed on; No3 or No4 it is the same"...yeah, sure...your above post speaks for itself...

bleck, your sleepless nights are about to begin...and when you finally manage to fall asleep after taking numerous pills you will start dreaming about...guess who? Andy Murray of course...he is getting closer and closer...your worst nightmare...
natashao, 10/10/11 12:11 AM
^^^That's preposterous! Fedfans aren't having nightmares about Murray. Rafa probably is after winning 4 points in the final set, all on Murray unforced errors btw. First Nole now Murray lol.
numero, 10/10/11 2:34 AM

and so little (my laptop now great!) is know about the fedfans sienna. Who cares about Murray being no.3? murray and rafa fans getting cited about 250 and 500 events and now a 1000 because suddenly murray found the right racket in his hand? and they screaming like concert teenagers!

I would think Natasha that you would be having more dark nightmares about rafa declining? and you worried for federer? Don't be. Facebook him a message and say your concerns.

Having no.3 or no.4 and murray in eiether position? I can see all excitement. Murray v Federer. 0 slams v 16. Yes, very exciting. And how long was novak at no.4 for? years and years. And how long was rafa at no. 3 for ? Years and more. And when zare laughe4d at federer winning his 250 event, but clapps when murray wins his (as deuce does), you know there is hypocrites here.

Fleur , 10/15/11 9:10 AM

@Fleur, whether roger is 3, 4, 5, 6 or 10. He's always a threat. No one wants to see him in their side of the draw. The Fed is still boss.

scoretracker , 10/15/11 9:26 AM


I don't think anyone should write off Murray at all. He reached the semis at RG this year and also got to the semis at MC and Rome. He can play on clay. So while people assume that it's all about Nole beating Rafa, for all we know Murray could come on strong at the 2012 RG.

That's why I feel that predicting or making assumptions on something that won't happen for about seven months, makes no sense. Before the start of this year, could anyone have predicted that Nole would be so dominant? So you never know.

Nativenewyorker , 10/15/11 10:16 AM

@scoretracker, you right. As always.

Fleur , 10/15/11 10:22 AM

Federer is a threat, not the boss. You'd think there are one or two players who'd be more feared these days given that he's won nothing significant this year, and has lost to players not ranked in the top 4.

samprallica , 10/15/11 2:56 PM

sampra, you fool yourself. Federer always gives fear to others. He isn't afraid of the dark or dogs or novak.

Fleur , 10/15/11 5:10 PM

I dont often laugh at your comments Fleur but that was quite funny.

ed251137 , 10/15/11 6:22 PM

It's funny how luckystar thinks nadal wouldn't lose to djokovic in the FO finals.
I still remember when djokovic beat nadal in hardcourts everyone said that on clay the story would be different. Then he beat nadal on clay but he surely wouldn't beat nadal in wimbledon. Guess what djokovic won.
The FO final is the last safe haven for nadal and when djokovic beats him there it's bye bye nadal.

Of course we won't know what would have happened but only blind obsessed nadal fans would think nadal had the upper hand. And please don't come with the argument that we had won 5 times. Nadal had won Rome 5 times and was beaten 2 sets to love. Djokovic has been making pulp out of Nadal so of course Djokovic had the upperhand against Nadal in the FO. Nadal wasn't playing that great he won because Federer chikened out mentally (as usual against Nadal).
In fact Djokovic now has the upperhand in any match they play, in whatever surface, best of 3 or 5. It's just how it is.

What I would like to see is some Djokovic/Murray and Nadal/Federer draws, because had this happened in the FO this year the winnner wouldn't probably be the same.

Fleur, some other players fans are federer haters also (or should I say first). So it's only normal they downplay Federer's wins.
The hate they have for Federer only shows that Federer is in fact one of the most important players in the game.
As I said in other posts Murray will probably take Federer's number 3 spot (possibly this weekend) but for starters I don't really care if Federer is #3 or #4 because draw wise it is the same. Secondly Federer isn't aiming for keeping the third spot either he is gunning for #1 or not. I believe he is so #3 is just a place he'll have to go through to get back to #1. Also remember Murray is defending a final in the AO so for all the fans that seem to think that being #3 is something special (or something anyone will remember in a few months time) might want to bring back the banners with "Murray #4" because that's where he will probably be after the AO 2012.

bleck , 10/15/11 7:37 PM

To be correct, Rafa won RG six times. So let's at least get the facts straight. He has only' lost one match ever at RG. Yet Rafa fans are supposedly blindly obsessed to think that he has the upper hand? Seriously?

It astounds me that Fed fans keep accusing Rafa fans of hating on Fed. I have never trashed Fed or disrespected him. The same cannot be said for the Fed fans on this site. Now I have to read that Rafa only won RG because Fed chickened out. Does anyone believe that Fed would truly chicken out mentally? I see, he handed it to Rafa. Convenient reasoning.

So who is being blindly obsessed. Now that Fed is about to become #4, the talk is all about how he only cares about being #1 again. As Fed drops lower in the rankings, his fans are still talking about #1. I ask - who is blindly obsessed? Do Fed fans really think that Rafa, Nole and Murray are just all going to collapse? For that it what it would take for Fed to get to #1 again. The road has gotten a lot harder now.

I guess the only thing left for Fed fans, is to trash Rafa's chances of winning another RG. Times are tough, indeed.

Nativenewyorker , 10/15/11 9:19 PM

I am sick to death of seeing the words 'hate, hatred and haters' on this site. It is almost impossible for anyone to make an objective comment without being jumped on for voicing an opinion and being branded as a hater - either of the player in question or his fans. This forum has become a war zone.

ed251137 , 10/15/11 10:20 PM

So what is the solution to the problem?

Nativenewyorker , 10/15/11 10:37 PM

Okay, I will answer my own question. It's easy to have faux outrage at what has been going on here of late. I took a break after Wimbledon for about five or six weeks. I do that on occasion. When I came back right before Montreal, I noticed how the volume was dialed way up on this site. I even commented on it, as I remember.

It's gotten even worse. Sienna and Fleur were accused of being the same person posting under different id's. They have done their share of attacking and have been attacked in return. It has been escalating for some time now.

It's gotten very personal here, too. It is getting harder to discuss tennis or make a comment. If I disagree with any Fed fan, then I am accused of trying to rid this site of all Fed fans. Others who have been extremely critical of Fed fans like sienna and fleur, are not called out for it. So there is a double standard for some people.

This forum has been a war zone for a while now. That is what I saw when I returned after all those weeks. It was beyond obvious that things had gotten much worse.

Nativenewyorker , 10/15/11 11:02 PM

NNY: I guess I should take my own advice and get out of the kitchen..........

ed251137 , 10/15/11 11:05 PM

NNY, Can't you read something properly?! I was writing about the possibility of Djokovic playing Nadal at RG. I wrote "had won 5 times" I didn't write he has won 5 times. Don't you know your verb tenses?! What I wrote was that at the time (during this year's FO) Nadal had won 5 times.

I don't need you to tell me to get my facts straight because they are. It's not my fault you can't understand and analyse a simple post.

So read the posts you're replying to carefully before making clownish accusations.

Also I try my best not to trash talk about the posters themselves or call them names. I said some fans, of course I don't think all the fans are haters. Of course there are some federer fans that are haters too. Thge difference between me and you is I wirte some whilst you write "the Fed fans on this site" talking about the federer fans on this site as a whole, implying everyone is the same.
You play the victim role yet in your post you attack.

bleck , 10/15/11 11:18 PM


Of course you don't have to get out of the kitchen. It's good to have a dialogue. I am just asking what is the solution? Because I don't know. That's all I was trying to say.


I really don't like your tone. You don't need to be insulting and patronizing. And the reference to "clownish" assumptions, is ridiculous. Don't give yourself airs and presume that you know more than the rest of us. It's not my problem if you write something that is unclear. Why don't you reread your own post and then you will see how poorly worded your comment were.

Why don't you make your point better instead of criticizing people who misunderstand you?

I don't play the victim role. You are echoing someone else's words.

Nativenewyorker , 10/15/11 11:24 PM

I was trying to start a discussion about how we can try to have some more discussion and less attacking. However, I see that it seems to be futile at the moment.

I don't even want to engage with Fed fans, because it always ends in name calling. So I will also get out of the kitchen.

Nativenewyorker , 10/15/11 11:30 PM

Hypocritical is the mildest of namecalling I can think of. And it obviously is not namecalling but an honest observation. It is sad and sickening to see you on so many threads slanging it out with every Fedfan in the house.

Sienna , 10/16/11 12:27 AM


Please tell me you are kidding! Really? After you referred to ed as "the devil" on another topic thread? And you think that this is what constitutes civil discourse? I have said it before, but in your case it bears repeating - you are the last person to accuse anyone on this site. Take a look at your comment first!

Nativenewyorker , 10/16/11 1:13 AM

bleck, I thought my post of 10/15/11, 7.36 am had explained why I think Rafa would still win FO 2011. It's obvious to me Nole wasn't at his best throughout the FO this year. To beat Rafa at the FO one needs to be at his best, as Sod of 2009 shown. Fed didn't have much success against Rafa all these years at the FO. Of course SOME anti-Rafa brigade would want us to believe that Nole would SURE beat Rafa at the FO, but as I've mentioned in my post, after getting past Fed or Murray (I'm not sure Nole could get past either anyway, after seeing how he was downed by Fed), I don't think Nole would be in the best conditions to deal with Rafa in the final. Nole is not a robot, he gets tired too! You won't win every match you play if you're not in your best conditions(Nole has proved by point, going down in the SF) just because you are supposed to 'own' your opponent. Life is not that simple!

luckystar , 10/16/11 2:24 AM

Oh yes, just to remind people here, at that point in time, ie at the FO this year before the SF, Nole was 3-0 against Fed and 4-0 against Rafa, so effectively Nole owned both Fed and Rafa, so many people back then thought Nole would beat Fed in the SF, but we know how things turned out now, so how can we simply assume that Nole would sure beat Rafa had they met in the FO final? Didn't we already learned a lesson from the SF result??

luckystar , 10/16/11 2:32 AM


Yes, Nole was 4-0 against Rafa, but had never beaten him a slam. So there was no reason to think that he would beat him for the first time in a place where Rafa has only lost one match. He only owned Rafa in Masters tournaments to that point. I still maintain that there was every reason to believe Rafa would beat him in the place where he is King of Clay. However, I guess according to some Fed fans, that would make me blindly obsessed.

Of course, now he has beaten Rafa in two straight slams, so things are very different.

Nativenewyorker , 10/16/11 5:23 AM

ed, pleeease don't leave this particular kitchen :( hardly anyone left I can share a laugh with as it is :( Besides Andy needs all the fans he can get, even second class ones like your good self....;)
BTW completely agree with you about this word "hater" which is used all over the net. Shorthand I suppose. But if you "hate" tennis players what word do you have left for Pol Pot, Stalin, Amin etc? Or even someone who harms your family. It is bizarre and strange to me and of course by using such language any rational discussion immediately disintegrates into a mighty, meaningless, tedious, slanging match.

deuce , 10/16/11 7:12 AM

Lol deuce, you reveal your age by your choice of names as examples. Haven't you heard of Saddam, Khadafi, Assad, Bush, Obama, etc?

**last two names were just added for shock value ;-)

phoenix , 10/16/11 9:02 AM

Others who have been extremely critical of Fed fans like sienna and fleur, are not called out for it. So there is a double standard for some people.

This forum has been a war zone for a while now. That is what I saw when I returned after all those weeks. It was beyond obvious that things had gotten much worse.
Nativenewyorker, 10/15/11 11:02 PM

excuse you?! we were warned NY, by cheryl, but unfortunately, you and peple like you carried on. People like deuce, ed, YOU,sosume, you were all at it. YOU are tedious, YOU don't listen to wat others say. Your collection of togethers are way more slanging than anyone else. Fed isnt play and you still bring him into this. NNY, YOU and scoretracker (who is ok), went on for ever slanging each others away, took up a whole day to read your dreaded harmful conversation. YOU are the worst with deuce who hurts when ppul argue. You give me stroke. You are mitey meaningless all the way thru.;

Fleur , 10/16/11 9:08 AM

If it is that "dreaded harmful conversation", why did you waste a whole day to read it?

phoenix , 10/16/11 9:16 AM

Thanks deuce. The RFC has not had much to celebrate this year so I'm mightily glad to have a second string to my bow! I've followed Andy's progress since he since he was a gawky teenager (btw he's looking postively handsome these days ;-) and I'm banking on him to cover himself in glory for the rest of the year and to rise to the challenges in 2012.

I'm quite robust when it comes to gratuitous attacks but it does get wearing at times so I relish the giggles with you - especially if it gets up the noses of people who dont share the same sense of humour ;-)

Hope you've laid on a good brunch for later.

ed251137 , 10/16/11 9:21 AM

Talk about gratuitous attacks, here we go again!

I am just constantly amazed at how much attention I am getting these days from people who can't stand me! What is wrong with this picture?

Nativenewyorker , 10/16/11 9:27 AM

Cue in Sienna.

ed251137 , 10/16/11 9:38 AM

Oh God, please no! Any second now....

Nativenewyorker , 10/16/11 9:45 AM

phoenix..cheeky! Not not age just politics, Stalin makes your villains look like vicars. Could've added Mao as well.
Whole day spent reading "dreaded harmful conversation" ROFL.
ed excellent brunch but ooer is it too early for a drink to calm the nerves
NNY hugs coming your way. If it wasn't all so bizarre it would be funny.

deuce , 10/16/11 9:54 AM

As a matter of interest, how does Fleur know Sienna also received a warning. Are they emailing each other or discussing their progress on another site?

ed251137 , 10/16/11 10:06 AM

I think we should wait until they start their warm up - it could be a long haul this morning!

ed251137 , 10/16/11 10:13 AM

Where's the "long haul" ed, here or in Shanghai?...;)

deuce , 10/16/11 10:25 AM


Thanks for the hugs! I need them! I don't understand what was written about I am the worst because you hurt when people argue. Huh? I don't get that one. Anyway, it's late where I am and I don't think I will be able to stay up to see the whole match.

As always, good luck to Andy and hopefully there will be a new #3! I also like Ferrer, so it's hard but I just think it's Andy's time right now.


You asked a very good question. How indeed?

Enjoy the match, have a great time. For me it's best to leave and get some sleep! :)

Nativenewyorker , 10/16/11 11:08 AM

Admit your own falts NNY, and wasteline, and take responsible action for you because you should be warned about taking up sapace here. you the long haul poster, now go get some slepe and ed, you no better. You add everyting to make it worse. You like a group of hyenas as zare said, using the word.

You invite no niceties.

You give me stroke. Villans like deuce says. You all Villans. ROLF! LOL!

Fleur , 10/16/11 11:54 AM

Yep Fleur you are spot onin your observation aboutthis site.
Those are the posters creating the most riots.
For the q raised I have already told about the warning on another thread. But I find itsickening that the instigators are getting away with murder on this site. Nadaline,nativenewyorker, Luckystar, @numbers, Sosueme, holdserve, Jean etc. You know who I am talking about.

Sienna , 10/16/11 12:16 PM

NNY, you seem to be the only one who misunderstood my post. So...

And I had re-read my post before answering to you obviously and saw no issues what so ever.

bleck , 10/16/11 2:09 PM

Congrats to Andy M for the #3 ranking! How long do you think can Federer hold on to his #4 ranking? ;-)

phoenix , 10/16/11 2:10 PM

Andy Murray is a lucky one. I say this because besides his own fans he is cheered now by the anti federers beacuse he surpassed Roger. When/If he surpasses NAdal he will surely be cheered by the anti Nadals.

Lucky bastard.

bleck , 10/16/11 2:43 PM

Murray had been ranked as high as no.2 briefly in 2009, just before and during USO, behiind Fed. So, he had ranked ahead of both Rafa and Nole during 2009. I think it's inevitable that one day both Nole and Murray will rank ahead of Fedal. Rafa started two to four years ahead of Nole and Murray, so logically speaking he would go into decline before Nole and Murray do. I won't be alarmed should Murray move ahead of Rafa in rankings within the next one or two years; Nole has already made his move this year reaching his peak too. Murray should be reaching his peak too and I feel that Rafa has come off from his peak (he started peaking during 2008 and reached his best level on all three surfaces in 2010).

Going forward, if Fedal can't make things challenging for Nole, I think Murray may be the one providing the challenge. Murray looks awesome during this Asian swing, especially his serves and his forehand (his backhand as usual, of course).

luckystar , 10/16/11 3:41 PM

Sosueme , 10/16/11 3:54 PM

Murray was no. 2 for 2 weeks.

He the only one of top 4 not to win a big slam.

He Novak was no. 3 for 3 years, 2 months. He was no. 4 for more than 2 years. Rafa was no 3 for 3 years. There should be celebrities around the Europe, becuz winning a 250 event means murray should be clapped, margin so close between 3/4! Let's all clap, para, para, paradise for murray. He is the winner only becus novak and rogie no playing.

Persons been talking bout murray for 2 years and he win a 250/500/1000, but ware's the big one?

No handle. Let's clap the 250 he played, witout it, no. 3 a dream.

Fleur , 10/16/11 3:55 PM

sosueme, snap at feet? 3,000+ points is snapping? lol. Pleas let's remember, rogie's choice not to play. Good decsion.

You think he's worried bout overtaking him? Don't remember any fear of muray or ferer. Rafa is the one in decline, not rogie, he's stable for mostly a decade. Who else done that? NO ONE. the main reason rafa still hanging around is to make more money to dodge the taxes.

He even admit he don't like tenis no more. Why he still playing then?

Fleur , 10/16/11 4:03 PM

Well Fleur,
Let's not get too hung up on the past the way so many Fed fans seem to.
Let's just see how it plays out going on,
Shall we?

Sosueme , 10/16/11 4:03 PM

Sucess begets success. You've tasted the heady feeling of three consectutive wins Andy: now perhaps you can build on that - but, please, not by handing out bagels and breadsticks to Rafa.

ed251137 , 10/16/11 4:04 PM

I'm talking about the year to date points.
Roger's just lost 600 points Ferrer has just gained the same.
I may be wrong, but I think there's less than 300 points in it.
It might be smart of him to show up for Stockholm.
And he can't be the favourite for the WTF surely.
I agree that it's not a big deal for Roger to be 3 or 4,
But 5?
Now that is a problem.

Sosueme , 10/16/11 4:15 PM

Congrats to Andy M for the #3 ranking! How long do you think can Federer hold on to his #4 ranking? ;-)
phoenix, 10/16/11 2:10 PM

Longer than Rafa will hold onto the #2 ranking that's for sure!

numero , 10/16/11 5:07 PM

Sosueme, Just calrify me on something you say you're talking about the YTD points but you're not saying that Roger lost 600 points from the YTD ranking right? Because that's not how it works, I just don't know if that's what you're saying.

Anyway, Roger's gap to Ferrer is today 4180 points. As of tomorrow when the new ranking's come out (they come pout every monday) Roger will lose 600 points from last year's final and Ferrer will lose 90 points from the third round showing he made last year. Roger will win 0 since he didn't play and Ferrer will win 600 for the final.
So the net points will be -600 for Roger and 510 for Ferrer. This means that the gap will go from 4180 points to 3070. Given that Roger won't play Stockholm he'll lose 250 points.
So the gap will be 2820.
There's still almost 3000 points between Roger and Ferrer when Basel starts.
Ferrer won the Valencia title last year and Roger won Basel both 500 so we'll see how those tournaments unfold.

I won't go over the Paris and WTF cenarios but Roger is pretty mucg guaranteed to stay in 4th place in the rankings come the AO. And we know Ferrer has a semi there as Roger. So I don't see Ferrer taking the 4th place any time soon or should I say ever.

P.S.: Only if Ferrer were to win all his matches in WTF would he have a chance.

bleck , 10/16/11 5:25 PM

Congrats to Andy M for the #3 ranking! How long do you think can Federer hold on to his #4 ranking? ;-)
phoenix, 10/16/11 2:10 PM

"Longer than Rafa will hold onto the #2 ranking that's for sure!"
numero, 10/16/11 5:07 PM

Well said numero. In fact As of tomorrow murray's gap to nadal will be smaller than ferrer's gap to federer.

bleck , 10/16/11 5:37 PM

As you say Roger was not there to defend his Shanghai final so 600 points are coming off on Monday.
He's not playing Stockholm either so that's another 250 .
That's year to date rather than his 'Ranking' for the rolling 12 month period where he is still way ahead of Ferrer, but has way more points to defend.
Ferrer has also qualified for the WTF this year so it's possible.
You're right however, it would be a long shot to say the least.

Sosueme , 10/16/11 5:41 PM

I meant 'Bleck'.

Sosueme , 10/16/11 5:42 PM

bleck, where you from? you talk a lotta sense and knows your game.

when rogie wins AO, wimby and USO and olympic gold, the haters here will twist themselves into a tiny ball. It time for everyone to talk about rafa decline and roger ascendancy.

Fleur , 10/16/11 5:47 PM

Fleur, I'm from Portugal (a small country in Europe). I believe some americans don't even know we exist lol. Maybe they think we're spanish or something.
I'm not too old, lol. I'm in my early twenties so I've not been following tennis for that long. I basically started following tennis around 2003 when Roger started winning the most prestigious titles. I follow tennis pretty close these days.

bleck , 10/16/11 5:53 PM

Good Grief!
Roger is about to move down a position.
Now is NOT the time to discuss Roger being 'ascendant'.

Sosueme , 10/16/11 5:54 PM

why apologize, the typo is more apt ;-)

phoenix , 10/16/11 5:56 PM

Fleur is in some serious denial. It happens when reality becomes too painful. Fed isn't going to win AO, Wimbledon, USO and Olympic gold. Remember it was Rafa who did that! Sorry to burst your bubble!

Nativenewyorker , 10/16/11 10:00 PM

When WTC or even later DC finals ends it is already december.
You guys obviously know this. Between that period an the start of AU open is merely 1 1/2 month. Do not think you can reasses yourself in that period of time and still be ready for the hardest slam in tennis.
So the time Fed is knocking of the season at the moment will pay dividend in 2012.
To try and hold on to #3 would have been shortsided and Fed always looks at the big picture.
Look at Nadal he is totally lost the spirit and the lust for tennis. T said it himself there is no excuse for lousy tennis. When he was asked about Rafa's performance.
And for Murray Well he looks determined, but there is no slam in sight. Even WTC 5th major is a long way of. So wait before we call him in the big 3 instead of big 4 when he has never won a major. I think he is taking a big risk in overdoing the asian tour and putting his mind and body in the red.

Sienna , 10/16/11 10:19 PM

Fleur is in some serious denial. It happens when reality becomes too painful. Fed isn't going to win AO, Wimbledon, USO and Olympic gold. Remember it was Rafa who did that! Sorry to burst your bubble!

Nativenewyorker , 10/16/11 10:00 PM

Can someonepoint out to native that Fed wonall those events/ Most of them more then 3 times.

Sienna , 10/16/11 10:29 PM

Can somebody point out to Sienna that Fleur was talking about the future! Please read your fellow Fed fan's post again! She said, WHEN Fed wins AO, Wimby, USO and Olympic gold medal! She is talking about Fed's imaginary ascendancy!

Again to repeat what she said - WHEN Roger wins AO, Wimby, USO and Olympic gold medal, the haters here WILL twist themselves into a tiny ball.

Future tense, as opposed to past tense!

Why would anybody dispute what Fed has done in the past? You make no sense.

Nativenewyorker , 10/16/11 10:35 PM

NNY You are not only ignorant but als a litle slow.Well you english is atleast better then mine but you understand absolutely notting.

When you say (quote) Remember it was Rafa who did that! Sorry to burst your bubble! (end quote) You obviously refer to years long gone by. You are a bit slow on the taking. Fed like Rafa won al those events. I merely pointed that out to you and the fact that Fed won several of them atleast 4 times or more.

Sienna , 10/17/11 11:58 AM


"Rafa was no 3 for 3 years. " Where did you get that from?

I suggest you go to the official ATP site, check on the ranking history for Rafa and get your facts right.

Rafa has finished each year from 2005 at either No 2 or No 1, so even though he might have been in the No 3 or even No 4 slot for odd weeks, officially he was never No 3 or No 4 at the end of any year.

Check the validity of the mud before you start slinging it.

schatz , 10/17/11 12:46 PM

Current ATP-rankings

1. Djokovic 12 500 pts
2. Murray 8 750 pts
3. Federer 8 670 pts
4. Ferrer 6 970 pts
5. Nadal 6 385 pts

Unibet Mobile prematch,live betting

Unibet Mobile betting Unibet Mobile betting

Scan QR code to access Unibet mobile.
Bet on Sports wherever you are and whenever you like, with Unibet's quick and simple mobile client you can place bets, check results and see live odds.
 For more info about QR codes & scanners click here.

ATP Calendar


Recommend Tennistalk

Follow us

Follow Tennistalk on Facebook Follow Tennistalk on Twitter

Tell a friend

Your name:

Friend's name:

Friend's email:

Other tennis links