Fingers crossed Nadal can win this one, he should be fired up to beat Soderling and if he is not fired up, then something's wrong

seam, 11/23/09 12:41 AM: That's just about it in a nutshell.

Vamos Rafa! You can do it! Just find good rhythm on your serve, mix it up at the net, be aggressive...all the things you did against Tsonga. Just do your best and enjoy yourself out there! I believe you can do it! \:D/

Nadal is always fired up even when he doesnt have revenge as a motivation factor

Hope it's a dog fight! I'll have my popcorn ready. Rivalries are what sports is really about.

rafa's serve will play a factor against the swede......if rafa manages to hold his serve in the initial few games, nd return well nd punish sod's 2nd serves....he may have chances to win

VAMOS!!!!!!!

I'm so nervous,Rafa must win this match..and he will win.
He will flatted out his shots,play aggressive and be in warrior Mode!

in a two hours from now you will see the revenge of a champ Soderling can have hopes but unless he is planning the tennis of his life he would never even come close.
i love Soderling but tonight it will be pay back time!

Rafa 3 and 2.

rafa's gonna have to do it in 3

yeeeeeeessssssss first set to Robin Söderling! Well done!

rafa should have challenged that ace. bad call. boo.

so nice to see nadal outplayed and running from one side to another =)

Nadal isnt getting outplayed, he is just winning NONE of the big points.

The non-challenge is the only difference in the match so far.

yeeeeeeeesssss Söderling!!!! solid performance!

in the end, Nadal definitely got outplayed

... or he'll lose 4 and 4, one of the two ...

Ah ... nice try SP . Oh damn.

my prediction is right.
nadal WILL NOT win a single set this whole tournament.
i dont think nadal can EVER beat a top 10 player, even on clay.

he is done, finished, gone, all over, end.

bye bye rafa, thanks for the memories buddy.

now go and marry xisca and have beautiful babies and live a great life.
ur tennis career officially came to a grinding halt.

rafa.....u are just not good enough anymore.
u cant play the big points, u cant beat the big boys, u are a little boy in a big boys top 10.

i know the truth hurts.
but facts are facts.
tell me the last time nadal beat a top 10 player?

i hope djokovic finishes number 2, because it will be an insult to tennis that nadal can finish number 2 playing like a mug.

my prediction is correct and i will be proven right.
i told everyone soderling will beat nadal easy.

i see nadal retiring next year at 23. atleast borg retired at 25.
nadal cant even last that long.

nadal dont even belong in the top 10.
heck if i get into some intense practise i reckon even i could beat nadal.

even ricky dimon can beat nadal.
soderling owns nadal, ownage at the french and ownage in tour finals.

nadal is a hapless, clueless, lost little man.
he is like a lamb being dragged into a slaughter house.

i want my match, i want myself vs nadal.
i will beat him in 2 easy sets.
make sure the court is a little fast and i might even give him a good beating.

attackingtennisrulez, your entire post, and you yourself, is a huge joke. Sure you'll beat Rafa, sureeeeeee. See you at Australian Open next year, beating Nadal! Thanks for giving me a good laugh! On another note, put a sock in it. I am so tired of reading your "NADAL IS OVER" posts - all with no content but just discontented and ridiculous ramblings.

And on the match - I think Rafa tried his best. But couldn't keep up in the end. That's sport though, you win, you lose. I'm sure Rafa will be fired to play his best for the two remaining RRs.

attackingtennisrulez......i sincerely hope that you are a MAN ENOUGH to apologise to rafa and his fans at this forum when rafael wins his seventh grand slam next year....i hope you stay with tennistalk long enough to see rafa winning against a top ten player....and see that your words arent true at all.....i really do...god bless you!!

Rafa's serve really failed him big time. In the second set after he had broken Soderling, he played such a lousy service game and allowed Soderling to break back! I think that game makes a lot of difference to the outcome of the second set. Had he hung in there after the break, he could have won the second set and we might see a third set. Too bad, Rafa did not serve well and did not play the big points well and became tentative when he had fallen behind. He was clearly frustrated with himself when he couldn't make those shots that he normally would have made. He still needs time to find back his old form, may not be during this tournament though.

Overall, I think he has improved, except his serve, as he tried to be more aggressive, and the match was quite tight. Rafa has his chances during some of Soderling's service games but couldn't capitalise on them. I hope Rafa can improve further during the remaining RR matches.

vrael and jyannis: why are you bothering with tennistalk's 2nd biggest joke?

attacker - any more posting the exact same message in more than one thread and you will be banned from this site. Thanks.

Although the outcome may not have been what Rafa fans would like ... his hard court game seems to have improved. Shame about the line call at end of first set ... could have changed the outcome. (maybe). Hope Rafa takes the positives from this match.

Rafa is not the same Rafa. I actually want him to be back so that we can have more exciting tennis between the top players.

Ricky... can't you just ban him anyways? Please?

@rickydimon
my bad, i didnt know that rule. i apologize.


but to say nadal will win another grand slam is beyond laughable.
i mean lets not kid ourselves here, the kid cant even win against a mindless talentless ballbasher like soderling.
i think ANYONE that loses to nadal on hard court the way he is playing should be kicked out from the atp tour and relegated to the challengers.

u rafa fans are just living in hope, that is all, hope.
in reality u know nadal will NEVER return to his old form.
once its gone, its gone forever

others have surpassed nadal.
lets see how nadal defends all those points in the early part of next year.

LOL, i think nadal wont even be in the top 20 soon. there is absolutely no way he will dominate the clay season like this year.
djokovic and del potro will win most of the clay titles.

i think nadal will be like safin, safin won the 2005 aussie open and didnt win a title since.
just look at hewitt, look what a pathetic joke he has become.

nadal's game and hewitts game are similar. nadal dont have a killer shot, he has to work hard every point and rely on others making errors. what a sad way to play tennis, relying on others to make mistakes to determine whether u win or not.

and u say rafa can take positives outta this match?
are u kidding me?
what positives?
getting another absolutely humiliating thrashing in front of millions of viewers is a positive is it?
u guys really are utterly delusional.

nadal couldnt hold his serve if his life depended on it, the worse serve in the top 50.
seppi has a better serve than nadal.
nadal's serve is sooooo inaccurate, and is delivered at half rat power.

as a former nadal fan, its sad to see him being reduced to mere dust!
but he should do the right thing and retire, these losses are clear indication that its time to leave the tennis scene.
i mean he has a great life.
he has all the money, a lovely island, a gorgeous girl, all the fame, etc.
he should retire and start a family with xisca.
the more he gets these thrashings, the more he will destroy his reputation.
its better to go while he still has a reputation without hanging around too long and diminishing his reputation.

attacking, you a former Nadal fan?? My goodness, being a former Nadal fan and posting negative things like this?? Are you trying to fool anyone??

Even if Nadal won't win anymore slam, as long as he enjoys the game, why must he retire?? Just because you say so?? Who are you by the way?? There are many Nadal fans who like watching him play tennis, so as long as he is happy, he can play as long as he wants for his fans. He will play for those who loves him, and will not retire for those who 'hates' him.

atr, you are NOT a Nadal fan. A true fan does not beat their idol the way you have. I suspect you just jump on the bandwagon of the best player at the time and claim you are a fan and supporter... ie. you have no loyalty at all, just want to be known/seen with the best or famous.

Nadal has not fully recovered from his injuries and will take some time for him to regain confidence. Also, he has lost some aura of invincibility because of that loss to Soderling at the FO on his beloved clay surface. His offcourt parents issues has not been helpful either. In short, give him a break. He is going thru a rough patch as does everyone at some stage of their lives.

Ricky,

I would normally never ask this of you, but after reading atr's second atrocious, self-indulgen, repetitive prattling, is it at all possible for you to ban this person now and rid this site of a cancer?

I have refrained from responding directly. I do not want to encourage this individual, but those comments are so beyond the pale that I really wish we could put an end to this.

I wanted to talk about Rafa's serve. That is one of the shots in his game that he is forever tinkering with and looking to evolve and improve. Of course, with making adjustments and changes, errors WILL occur. It can be frustrating (as Rafa so cutely exhibited today), but you have to stick with it right?

The natural side effect is that you're going to make a lot of errors (that could/would cost you a match) and your natural reaction is to say "To heck with it!" and revert right back to what you're comfortable with. But you just have to keep reminding yourself that when it all comes together, it will be mighty worth it, right? You suffer the consequences now and it will payoff in a big way later.

When I watch Rafa's matches with my Mom (she's a raving Rafanatic....makes me look normal <3) she gets frustrated easily. "Why is he missing a lot of serves?" she would ask me over and over again throughout the course of all of his recent matches. "Well, I think it's because he's tweaking it. In a lot of his practice videos, I see him having chats with Uncle Toni about his serve and so I think they're looking to evolve and change that shot."
My Mom scrunches up her face and pouts as Rafa misses yet another first serve, "I don't like it. It's making him miss a lot. Why can't he just tweak and change his serve during practices, then serve normally during matches until he perfects whatever it is he's trying to change?"

I thought about that question for a while. Then I decided that it doesn't work that way. My thought is, you have to incorporate whatever you're truly looking to improve into your game, all the time. You have to commit to it like a Daddy penguin to his egg. That means that what you do on the practice courts, needs to be enforced on the match courts. Even if it costs you a victory. You have to translate (a forehand volley for example) into actual competition because even though you are technically working on it and improving it on the practice courts, doesn't mean it'll transition as smoothly onto the match courts where you're under pressure. It's a situation you can't duplicate during practices. So a player has to stick with it, and attempt to execute the volley during an actual match. Yes, they may miss it and it may cost them big time. But one day it will click and come together when you most need it. How sweet will that feeling be? What do you guys think?

We saw a glimpse of what's to come in Rafa's match vs Tsonga. In that match, Rafa's serve was extremely effective. He had aces, nonreturnables...it was extremely reliable throughout the match. It was a real weapon.

RickyDimon and Cheryl, I'm not sure exactly WHAT Rafa is actually doing to improve his serve. But I recall one of the commentators commenting on the grip he uses when serving and how it's changed. Have you noticed anything specific? What about the rest of you guys?

What I noticed about Uncle Toni in the stands lately is that he's more relaxed and seems to just be enjoying supporting Rafa. Of course he's always done that, but what makes this different is that I just feel like he's sort of expecting Rafa to make the unforced boo-boos he's making or be erratic on his serve. I feel that he knows and understands that they are working on those shots behind the scenes and that it doesn't look particularly pretty now, but when Rafa get's the groove and connects the dots, it will be awesome!
(his Dad and sister were in the stands today as well) :D

If Uncle Toni isn't concerned and Rafa isn't concerned, I'M not concerned. He's forever tinkering and adjusting (see forehand that won him the AO this year.) Whatever he has in mind about what he's trying to do with his game, I just believe that it will all come together! As a fan, I try to just stick to a positive attitude, belief, and (most importantly) patience.

Vamos Rafa! :))

P.S. Despite all the reasons we all mentioned as to why Rafa isn't "100%". I'm sure we can all agree that Rafa hit some absolutely BEAUTIFUL shots today! Even though the overall match wasn't a classic Rafa performance, it sure had sprinkles of Rafa magic throughout. Also, the slo-mo cam that I love so much got a great workout, it absolutely LOVES Rafa! It was fantastic to see his Vamos! fist pumps and passing shots in slo-mo. *giddy*

It's tough and it's sad but there are a lot of positive things that we can take from Rafa's match
Rafans,You knew that some were going to come out and have negative things to say,that's how it is.

as long as i know that rafa is improving everday and i can see it then I'm good.

He's not at the level he wants to be but he is on his way and that's good enough for me.

Hey guys, this is my first post here as I've just registered. Hope to be a welcomed guest here. :)
Nadal today was way from his best. Although soderling is one the best on indoor courts, but nadal could beat him if only he's 100% and playing deep shots into the back of the court.
Hope Nadal gets back to his best by next year, tennis needs him back at full power.

Mini, although Rafa's serve deserted him somewhat in set 2 ... I think he out aced Söderling in the first set (which if true ... I can be somewhat lame with statistics ...
is really quite remarkable considering Robin's game).

hi blbol! welcome to tennistalk! hope to see more posts from you.

be careful, there are some very rude and offensive posts which you should just try to ignore - try hard! but not many, most fans here are pretty good. enjoy!

Bolbol, welcome! And good job on your first post! I agree, he needs to penetrate the court more. I think he did so at times throughout this match, so that's a very good sign, he just needs to be more consistent about it. :)

**********
Smr, if I'm remembering correctly, I think they both made 5 aces (with Rafa making one double fault and Sodemort making 2.)

Their first serve percentages were practically identical (Rafa with 59% and Sodemort with 54%.) Also, their percentages of points won on second serves were almost the same, not quite the same on first serves (with Rafa winning 62% and 54% and Sodemort winning 73% and 53%, respectively.)

The glaring difference comes in the percentage of RECEIVING points won. With Rafa clocking in at a lowly 27% points won returns of both first and second serves. Sodemort clocks in at a decent 38% (when returning first serves) and a very decent 46% (when returning second serves.)

There really wasn't much separating these two. But I think that his second serve was his main weakness in this match. When he gets good rhythm on his serves, it will allow him to be more aggressive. When he's aggressive, he's difficult to live with.

Hmm, did you guys know he's blogging from London? I think I'll shoot him a question about what he's up to on his serve. I'm interested in some specifics *rubs hands together* Of course, if he doesn't want to divulge that, he can just sidestep my question and distract me with his adorable "no?" :D

I don't think tennistalk should change their rules and ban ATR just because he isn't a Nadal fan. Ricky has clearly stated that people are banned for personal attacks and cursing and posts are deleted if they are not relevant to tennis. You Nadal fans need to have thicker skin and be able to take some ribbing when your boy loses. Freedom of expression. Oh and way to go Sod!

SPAM!

MiniArbre , 11/24/09 2:14 AM Interested by the remark re. Uncle Toni. I noticed exactly the same thing during Paris. He was looking very laid back even when things were not going Rafa's way. I'm sure there is validity in the speculation they are working on new weapons. The first serve percentage has been fluctuating a lot recently - but if I'm not mistaken the number of aces is on the up.
Paradoxically, yesterday it was Rafa's 2nd serve (often so lethal) which deserted him.

Nadal didnt play bad. He just was bad relatively to the old Rafa. This is what Fed gets whenever he doesnt perform at his best and loses.

I saw some great passing shots by Nadal.

What is missing is his attacking play.

torres9 I agree with you that Nadal had some great passing shots, both cross court backhand and forehand down the line. Its just that his serve wasn't clicking and that won't allow him to play aggressively. If half the time your second serve was under attack, you would be busy defending more than you could attack. During his match with Tsonga, his serve was clicking so well that he was able to mix things up and kept Tsonga guessing all the time, and he could come to the net to volley and attack frequently. Sadly, those were missing in this match, I blamed his poor serving for that.

Ed251137, yes, definitely. He's been getting more aces (Whenever Rafa got/get an ace, we'd all scream "ACE! RAFA MADE AN ACE!" because it was such a rarity. We noticed how often we do that now and it dawned on us that Rafa has been acing more. :D)

Uncle Toni is definitely zen like. He knows that they are plotting something good. ;)

Torres9, succinct and correct.

Luckystar, I agree. His serve clicked beautifully vs Tsonga and we saw just how Rafa took complete control of the proceedings. He mixed up play, attacked the net, made life difficult. He was an absolute menace! He had:

7 Aces / 0 Double Faults
72% First Serves (72% points won on first serve, 75% of serves won on second serves)

He won 22% of points when returning first serves
He won 64% of points when returning second serves!

There's no doubt that whenever Rafa has a chance to attack, he snatches the opportunity. The thing is, he needs to create those opportunities. If he's serving well, his rhythm flows, his confidence builds, and he's in excellent position.

i'm always baffled how uncle toni keeps his calm. i would have cracked long ago. i'm sure he's on sedatives. there's just no other explanation!

LOL Homos! XD

If I were Uncle Toni...only a she-form, so I'd be Auntie Toni, I would not be able to sit through his matches! As a fan I'm already a wreck, if I were any closer....

I'd have to be hooked up to a life machine. For more reasons than one! Aahh, waita minute, as Auntie Toni I would not be allowed to -

Nevermind, I definitely prefer to NOT be related to Rafa. I don't want to be "creepy" Auntie Toni now would I? I'm happy being a fan who has no blood relation to him, and I'm sure he and his team would be very happy that I am a FAR AWAY fan who can't get anywhere near him. :D

I love Uncle Toni's vibe. He's just so...COOL! And I love the Rafa/Uncle Toni dynamic! It's such a special relationship. B)

There was a time when he would encourage Rafa by shouting and waving his arms around a lot during the match. This led to a lot of hoohaa (stirred up by Federer) about him 'coaching' from the box during Rome 2007. Since then he has been positively buddha-like most of the time although he can still be seen leaping to his feet when Rafa wins the big points.

that was the only one we know of, and he was cheering rafa, not coaching him whatever he was accused of. don't think it happened (much) even before, not even while rafa was a junior. toni was buddha like even in those early days so him cheering rafa was abit out of character. than again, many other coahes and trainers are also pretty calm. i just couldn't do it as a fan. like mini, i'd have to be hooked up to life support with paramedics standing by.

I remember that incident well. I remember the commentators sounding incredulous when talking about it. They were like, "There was no way Uncle Toni was coaching! He was just being supportive and giving encouragement!" Tut! Tut! I think that was frustration talking on Federer's part.

I also read somewhere about how Uncle Toni's brother was frustrated with him during the Wimbledon 2008 final. When Rafa lost his two set lead, Papa Nadal accused Uncle Toni of not giving Rafa enough positive reinforcement. While Uncle Toni is a vision of calm and control, Papa Nadal looks like an utter softy and a compete worrywart. :D

Another thing I love about Uncle Toni, is that you can SEE the passion and love he has for the sport. You will even see him applauding the good points of Rafa's opponents! Come to think of it, I flove the entire Nadal entourage. They are just so lovable and they have a sweetness about them. :)