• Nadal dismantles Federer for Rome title

    5/19/13 9:14 PM | Cheryl Murray
    Nadal dismantles Federer for Rome title Rafael Nadal unraveled Roger Federer's game to take the Rome Masters title in decisive fashion.

    Rafael Nadal secured his third Masters title of the season with a 6-1, 6-3 drubbing of world No. 3 Roger Federer.

    Nadal was not at his very best in the matches leading up to the final. In particular, he showed real vulnerability against Ernests Gulbis, whom he defeated in the third round. But there was no hesitation in the Spaniard's game on Sunday against Federer. The Spaniard has a near fool-proof game plan against Federer, pitting his heavy, spinning forehand against the Swiss' one-handed backhand.

    Nadal played a spectacular match, employing his winning strategy nearly flawlessly. The lop-sided scoreline though was not all down to Nadal's efforts, which were admittedly impressive. Federer also contributed by playing flat, uninspired tennis full of unforced errors.

    The Spaniard very nearly secured a 6-1, 6-1 scoreline. He served for the match at 5-1 and was broken for the first time. But the break ended up as a minor blip on the radar. He regrouped and served the championship out on his next try for 6-3.

    Sunday's win means that Nadal will take back the No. 4 ranking from countryman David Ferrer, ensuring that he will get his own quarter, away from the other top seeds. The win also marks Nadal's sixth title in eight tournaments played and eight finals in eight tournaments played.

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Amazing achievement!
I haven't seen the match yet but, judging by the score, it was a pretty routine win for Rafa. Congrats on the 6th (!!!) title of this year. I hoped Roger would be a sterner test, make it a bit more competitive. But it seems Rafa finally found his form. RG will surely be intense :). Can't wait! :)

danica , 5/19/13 10:02 PM

Nothing short of amazing!

For 'unforced errors' read shanking.

nadline , 5/19/13 10:50 PM

^^shanking is about right. If you didn't know better, you'd think Federer had never volleyed before, the way he was bricking them.

All of that being said, Nadal's passing shots were just downright exquisite.

cherylmurray , 5/19/13 10:53 PM


Conspirator , 5/19/13 11:03 PM

what a sweet title :)
Hope he gets the rest he deserves.
Us being the fans we are, we're already salivating at the prospect of RG..
One match at a time.. and if he doesn't win it, well... it's not the end of the world when you think what he has achieved this year so far. I just hope that if he has to lose it won't be against Novak, that's all :)

Shireling , 5/20/13 12:40 AM

I don't know if Fed could have done anything the way Rafa was playing. However, he was missing shots that he makes 99.9% of the time. I remember in the beginning of the second set, Fed had Rafa down 0-30 on his serve. In the next point, Fed just needed to hit an easy overhead smash at the net to give him 0-40. However, he hit it right into the net. Rafa managed to save his serve. There were a number of other instances where Fed had the open shots and just flat out missed them.

There were way too many UE's from Fed today. Maybe it was the pressure that Rafa put on him by having an answer to everything.

I am looking forward to RG. I also know that this will be a real test for Rafa. He hasn't yet played a slam this year. We will have to see how he handles playing best three out of five matches. He will have a day off in between matches, but it will still test his fitness, stamina and mental strength.

I think Rafa has had the best preparation possible. He has won Barcelona, Madrid and Rome and also managed to add points. He regained the #4 ranking. He had some really tough matches that forced him to raise his level of play.

Rafa is as ready as he can be for RG. I say bring it on!

Nativenewyorker , 5/20/13 3:43 AM

"I just hope that if he has to lose it won't be against Novak, that's all :)"

You can run, but you cannot hide. No-1-vak to get the rafa slam and career slam in Paris.


novakisthebest , 5/20/13 5:32 AM

"You can run, but you cannot hide."

Hope novak got your message, @rosolisthebest.

rafaisthebest , 5/20/13 8:11 AM

I am amued. Rafa has won the 3 tourneys back to back yet no Rafan here is saying he is locked in for RG , we all agree it needs to be played to win.

But comments like this -No-1-vak to get the rafa slam and career slam in Paris. , I hope these good for nothings use the same confidence in their own lives and careers, may actually help them :-)

sanju , 5/20/13 9:08 AM

BTW how has Rafa played 10 tirneys/ What is ATP Race website reporting?

Rank, Name & Nationality Points Week Change Tourn Played
1 Nadal, Rafael (ESP) 5,000 1 10

sanju , 5/20/13 9:13 AM


We just need to ignore this trash talk as much as possible. Remember, it has to happen on the court. That is where it will be decided. Rafa is the one who has only been defeated once at RG. That was in the fourth round. He has never lost a final. He has won seven titles, breaking Borg's record.

These know nothings can blather on and make predictions and act like it's a done deal. We know Rafa!

Nativenewyorker , 5/20/13 9:37 AM

seventeen - Yeah we all Rafans are waiting for a USO match between Fed n Rafa. It has never happened. Rafa was waiting in final in 2010 n 2011, Roger blew 2 match points against Novak both times in semis, so he is to be blamed for not making it through. Ofcourse Rafa lost in semis in 2008 n 2009 and Roger was in final in USO too, so there Rafa is to be blamed.

As misfortune would have had it, they both did not face each other in USO though there was a good chance atleast 3 times.

I dont agree with you that Roger has any advantage over Rafa on any outdoor hard court and USO is outdoor hard- it maybe faster but in a GS best of 5, I doubt hes the fav against Rafa in USO.

sanju , 5/20/13 9:47 AM

As far as the match is concerned. he did not put up a big fight just as in miami he can do better even against Nadal. It just wasnt worth it to go deep into the reserves.

A former No 1, 17 slam holder cannot ahve this attitude on court. If he does, he better quit. It is not even professional. He may not have tried very hard as he saw Rafa was on fire n he couldn't do much as spin and depth of Rafas shots were hurting him, did he not admit it in as many words in presser?

sanju , 5/20/13 9:51 AM

Ladies for you /1

sanju , 5/20/13 10:30 AM

@sanju, 5/20/13 9:13 AM
---BTW how has Rafa played 10 tirneys/ What is ATP Race website reporting?---

ATP takes into account '0-points' tournaments also. adal.aspx?t=rb&ytd=y

Augustina08 , 5/20/13 10:45 AM

FEDERER(Till 2007)
Career titles: 52
Winning percentage: 83%
Grand slams: 12 (runner-ups 2)
Career titles: 56
Winning percentage: 83%
Grand slams: 11 (runners-up 5)

Rafa actually has a better overall record at 26 compared to Federer

sanju , 5/20/13 11:17 AM

Where is chr20?

nadline , 5/20/13 11:50 AM

@sanju, 5/20/13 11:17 AM

I make a small correction.
On July 25th, 2008 Fed was the same age as Rafa is today. By then, Fed had 54 career titles.

Vamos Rafa!

Augustina08 , 5/20/13 12:09 PM

It was meant to be a rekindling of the sport's greatest rivalry, but the meeting of Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer yesterday in their first final for nearly two years was about as competitive as a race between a Ferrari and a Fiat 500. Nadal claimed his seventh Rome Masters title by beating Federer 6-1, 6-3 in just 68 minutes ..... s-an-old-score-at-rome-masters--like-a-ferrari-to-roger-federers-fiat- 500-8623001.html

nadline , 5/20/13 1:21 PM

Rafa is incredible on the dirt. He deserves all the credit. He may have more career titles at the same age but he plays at least 6 clay court events a year and always wins at least 5 of them if not all! If there were more than 2 grass court events a year Fed would have racked up many more titles. Shame there is 3 masters series on clay and 0 on grass. Would be good to mix it up. Fed losing to Rafa on clay is now a formality. Let's put them on grass and indoor hard and see what happens.

brothdog , 5/20/13 2:28 PM

The desperation to topple Rafa at RG has now reached embarrassing proportions. Now there are coaches falling over themselves offering Novak advice on how to become "The New King of Clay" I kid you not. The following new booklet from has a section on exactly that:

If Novak doea not win RG2013, there will be a lot of people needing psychological attention I tell you.....

rafaisthebest , 5/20/13 2:31 PM

Even the TYPE of hard court is specified now.

Even Wimby must be played indoors for Fed to have a chance now.


Conspirator , 5/20/13 2:51 PM

I don't understand how Fedfans can be confident Fed would beat Rafa on grass, that is history! I bet my bottom dollar if Rafa and Fed played on grass NOW and moving forward, Rafa would win! Even this indoor hard court..........the only reason IT APPEARS Rafa is bad on it is because the indoor HC tournaments have been played in Autumn when Rafa is tired from his clay court exertions. I mean, he is beating everyone in Spring so you would expect him to be tired!

So, bring indoor HC forward in the calendar and see what happens, Fed will fold as his his wont...........

rafaisthebest , 5/20/13 3:10 PM

Fed losing to Rafa on clay is now a formality. Let's put them on grass and indoor hard and see what happens.
brothdog, 5/20/13 2:28 PM

Correction - Fed losing to Rafa OUTDOORS has become a formality.

nadline , 5/20/13 3:19 PM

Federer complimented Nadal for the way he took his time before returning to the circuit.

"It goes to show that's what every player should do," Federer said. "Now he's as strong as ever and is going to be the favorite for Roland Garros." afael-nadal-roger-federer-italian-open/2323969/

nadline , 5/20/13 4:00 PM

I do believe Mr. Federer is mellowing with old age.

ed251137 , 5/20/13 4:12 PM

I thought I was the only one who noticed this but its true. Now its all about "slow" clay this and slow clay that, slow courts vs fast courts and indoors vs outdoors. My gosh, at what point will it all stop?!!! People just forever continue to shift the goal post and Im afraid they will soon find themselves falling over the edge!!! Its ridiculous!!! After Novak beat Rafa at MC, then it was assured that the trend would continue in Madrid, but after Novak stood Rafa up in the finals, then he would definitely take Rafa down in Rome but Novak again did not show........................and now of course Novak will for sure do the job at RG! This has become so desparate, its embarrassing!!!!..........and thats all about a surface that is supposedly inferior and unprestigious (lack of a better term)!!!!!

Personally, based on Rafa's current perfomance I cant see any one beating him at Roland Garros baring injury! Yes, there are aspects of his game that needs tweaking but hey, no one else on tour is playing lights out!!! Rafa has had the best results so far and the momentum is on his side, so all we as his fans can do is wish him all the best at RG and hope he remains injury free!!!!


Monalysa , 5/20/13 5:05 PM

I hope Feda nd rafa do meet in Wimby this year. Lets settle it once n for all. I am tired of overconfidence that Fed will beat Rafa on grass. Didnt he narrowly lose to Fed in 2007 in 5 and then beat him in 2008 in 5. What is reason for overconfidence that Fed will beat Rafa? I feel either can win based on who plays better on the day

sanju , 5/20/13 5:06 PM

I think that ship has sailed, @sanju......from what I saw yesterday I cannot see Fed trumping Rafa anywhere, except indoor HC late in the season when Rafa is tired. What puzzles me about Fed's current form or lack thereof is that he is in he same age group as Ferru, and look at Ferru! Okay, one explanation could be that Fed has been going deep in tournaments for so long unlike which case it's not an age thing, but mileage thing.........

rafaisthebest , 5/20/13 6:01 PM

Did I say that Fed would win it did I say lets see what happens? I've been away ages but nothing changes here. I like reading the comments but can't be bothered to debate any more. Not at any point did I say that Fed would win, but what is for sure is that it would be way, way more competitive. That's a fact. I'm not buying the tired argument either at the end of the season. Fed plays more matches than most and he doesn't look tired and he's 5 years older than rafa. The clay season ends in the first week of June and rafa is tired in November because of that!? Give me a break.

brothdog , 5/20/13 7:52 PM

It's not a certainty that Fed will even quality for the WTF in London. At this point he is #11 in the race. So he may not get the chance to meet Rafa on indoor hard court.

Fed has more problems than worrying about whether he will meet Rafa at Wimby. I think Rafa has shown his proficiency on grass.

Nativenewyorker , 5/20/13 7:59 PM

Yes, just like we should buy your argument that if there were more than 2 grass courts a year, Fed would have more titles.....

And your sudden sorrow at the lack of grass Masters tournaments, touching.

Of curse you will not mention the preponderance of HC Masters, oh no, there are too many HC Specilaists!

No need to beg for a break dear, you've earned it.


rafaisthebest , 5/20/13 8:13 PM

nny, Fed has moved up to #6 in the Race because of his Rome results:

rafaisthebest , 5/20/13 8:16 PM

Rafa was definitely too good for Roger yesterday, but Roger's tactics in the first set was horribly wrong! When he started to play on Rafa's backhand he started to get more points and he even broke Rafa in one game of the 2nd set. But it was too late, then. That's how Novak beats Rafa most of the time. He'll probably do it again in RG if he gets a chance to play with him. Novak is more likely to lose from somebody else, such as Berdich, Del Potro, Federer than from Nadal. Novak knows what and how to play against Rafa.

uroshu , 5/20/13 9:06 PM

Q: Roger. You say you are healthy and I am convinced you are. The Twitter world says you are not and the speed of your serve was 174 and the second 160 ?..
R. Federer: 160 is that slow for a second serve? Is that slow?

Q: It is normal ??.. The Twitter world says this.

R. Federer: Is everyone the same opinion. Janowicz serves at 225 but I am not that guy and I work my points differently and the radar is not always the story. Ask Rafa if I served slow and he will silence the Twitter world your friends.


Conspirator , 5/20/13 9:25 PM

rafaisthebest, 5/20/13 8:16 PM,

Sorry my bad. I forgot that he would have gained points for getting to the final. I guess things are looking up at last.

Nativenewyorker , 5/20/13 9:44 PM

@ uroshu

"Novak is more likely to lose from somebody else, such as Berdich, Del Potro, Federer than from Nadal. Novak knows what and how to play against Rafa. "

..............and Rafa dont know how to play Novak!!! You people put Nole on a pedestal that needs to be cut a lot shorter esp. considering his form lately!!!!

I am so tired of people predicting that Nole is going to win RG when they could not predict Nole's shortcomings at the previous Masters tourneys!!!! Face it, NO ONE knows who is going to win RG for sure. However, I will say that I will put my money on Rafa as he has been the most consistent between the two! I would certainly be foolish to put my money on Nole bcos his performances recently have been rubbish...............utter rubbish!!!!

Vamos, Rafa, c u at RG!!!

Monalysa , 5/20/13 10:01 PM

Monalysa, me too. What does Rafa have to do to gain respect. Every time he achieves the ultimate people look for things to put him down. The latest was that he didn't handle being #1 like the great Nole and Roger. I stopped reading all the stupid speculations. They don't know any more than anyone else. Had Rafa been taken out twice before the Qtrs., no one wold have given him the time of day, let alone pick him for a title he has won 7 times.

Oh well, c'est la vie.

nadline , 5/20/13 10:18 PM

So here we are on the brink of the French Open, and it sure looks like the same view we've had for every year but one since 2005 (Nadal is 52-1 at Roland Garros with seven titles in eight tries).

"I don?t want to think about Roland Garros yet," Nadal said Sunday. "Let me enjoy this victory."

I have a funny feeling that the way Nadal is playing, nobody else wants to think about Roland Garros, either. Should Federer find his way to the final to meet Nadal yet again, I?d suggest he bring a cyanide pill for himself, not a bagel to share.


Bodo is not tipping Nole, at least.............he thinks we'll be watching the same old movie again and we all know the ending.

nadline , 5/20/13 10:37 PM

Nadal will in the French Open, it's inevitable. Novak can not stop him, nobody can.

brothdog , 5/20/13 11:43 PM


Conspirator , 5/21/13 1:12 AM

Hehehe! Fed getting touchy with the press, what else is new? I like the bit where he basically threatens to unleash Rafa on the Twitter world! Lordy.....

rafaisthebest , 5/21/13 6:31 AM

brothdog , 5/20/13 11:43 PM

I beg to disagree. Novak in form is certainly capable of beating Nadal on clay. And who knows, he might have taken some pressure off himself going into the tournament.

Either way, I don't think Nadal is a shoo-in if Djokovic is on the other side of the net. Nadal is the favourite, but not invincible.

samprallica , 5/21/13 9:29 AM

Nole isn't at the same level as last year or 2011. He's not 100% on the ankle injury he picked up playing Davis cup and has lost matches he would usually cruise recently. It's a huge ask for him to beat Nadal over 5 on clay. He was at a higer level this time last season and couldn't get the job done.

brothdog , 5/21/13 9:45 AM

Dont remember federer or nadal ever losing so easily in back to back masters when they were world number 1. Embarassing.

willmw101 , 5/21/13 10:12 AM

brothdog , 5/21/13 9:45 AM

I don't think Nole can be judged purely based on what we've seen - he is that unpredictable. I feel his issues are motivational more than anything else.

How is losing embarrassing? Part of the game, no?

samprallica , 5/21/13 11:09 AM

There is nothing embarrassing about losing to Berdych. When he's on form he's a threat to all the top players! He's no 6 in the world it's not like he can't play. It's far from a disaster losing to him. Nole will be ready to go to war at RG as he want's that career slam, but I just can't see him finding a way to beat Rafa at this moment.

brothdog , 5/21/13 12:05 PM

I feel his issues are motivational more than anything else.
samprallica , 5/21/13 11:09 AM

Are you saying Novak has been inconsistent throughout the season (yes, it's not just Madrid and Rome where he's lost early) because he is not motivated to win? But he will be motivated for RG.......?

What is the cause of this lack of motivation?

rafaisthebest , 5/21/13 12:15 PM

Fatigue ritb, fatigue.
Is their any other sport which calls for so much single minded dedication week in, week out with little or no respite? Add to that the incessant long distance flights and the toll of jet lag on the body, plus weeks on end spent in hotels, is it any surprise that players flag from time to time? To stay motivated for 10, 15 or more years without the occasional dip in performance is nigh on impossible.

ed251137 , 5/21/13 12:32 PM

^^Oh, right. Makes sense.

But my sense is some Nole fans are implying that he will be there for those he values most. The problems with this are:

1. He may say, be extra motivated for RG, just as he was for MC, but he still has to go through the field to get to the final. The losses in earlier rounds has given belief to the lower ranked guys that they can beat him so they will bring their own extra motivation!

2. By "letting" Rafa go through with all those wins, he has ceded the big "m", momentum, to Rafa.

Certainly agree that these guys are put through the wringer by their Tour schedule, chapeau! They deserve the mega bucks they get.........

rafaisthebest , 5/21/13 12:44 PM

@monalysa @ nadline
Well, first of all, I hope you don't think I am one of those who don't respect or put down Rafa, because I sincerely think that he is one of the best tennis players ever, a great champion and the most consistent one of them all, as well. I didn't even say that I would put my money on Novak to win RG this year. Definitely not after his inconsistency, as of lately. What I am saying is that he is the only one who knows how to play against Rafa (play on his backhand, as long as it takes, wait until he sends a short enough ball which Nole then sends to Rafa's forehand, which is by then unguarded. And you have to be as good as Nole to do it right) and the only one who knows how to beat him on clay, and he proved that more than once. And those are the facts, my friends. You can say whatever you want, but I know that Rafa prays not to meet Nole at RG. Again, I am not saying that in that case, Nole would win easily (he never does), but Nole's chances to beat Rafa are much better than enybody else's. And if you ask me, those chances would be 50/50, considering the form of both players and that Nole is not his usual self.
Nevertheless, Rafa's chances to win the tournament are bigger than Novak's, considering the fact that Nole can lose from some other player who has his day, and Rafa is beyond that. It's just inconceivable that Rafa could lose from anybody but Nole. So, my predictions - chances to win at RG: Rafa 60%, Novak 39%, somebody else 1%.

uroshu , 5/21/13 2:14 PM

I think you're wrong uroshu, I think Rafa knows he will meet Novak in RG and is ready for it. He might prefer to play against another adversary, I grant you that, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that he's praying not to meet him, that would be stupid of him.

Shireling , 5/21/13 2:51 PM

"............. but I know that Rafa prays not to meet Nole at RG.........."
uroshu , 5/21/13 2:14 PM

Wonder what his prayer mats are made of............clay!

rafaisthebest , 5/21/13 3:00 PM

my favourite shots from Rafa in the rome final:
- the ddlbh to go 5-1 in the 2nd set, vintage Rafa
- at 40-15 in the 1st , he plays an amazing ccbh right in the corner - doesn't win the game with it but as if

Shireling , 5/21/13 3:29 PM

@uroshu, 5/21/13 2:14 PM

I never question anyone for predicting the outcome of a match, after all predictions have nothing to do with the outcome. There is no law ag issue with are the reasons behind the predictions.

Normally, I would say it's 50:50 between Rafa and Nole, but right now Rafa seems to be playing better than Nole. However, what will happen if they meet is anyone's guess. All I'm saying is, Rafa has to have an unblemished sheet before a tournament to be given any respect and I think that's a shame.

nadline , 5/21/13 3:59 PM

I would have said Rafa will win but Nole is such a drama Queen, a good actor and not frank. I wouldn't put it past him to tank his matches at the two Masters to preserve his strength, to not let Rafa see his new weapons and to let Rafa have a false sense of complacency.
I am sure if Rafa wins, the media pundits will talk ad nauseam about Nole's ankle. If Nole wins, then they will crown him undisputed King of clay.

holdserve , 5/21/13 4:20 PM

I would have said Rafa will win but Nole is such a drama Queen, a good actor and not frank. I wouldn't put it past him to tank his matches at the two Masters to preserve his strength, to not let Rafa see his new weapons and to let Rafa have a false sense of complacency.
holdserve, 5/21/13 4:20 PM

At least on this point, you and ed are at one. I don't buy this theory though. As Rafa says, anyone can lose to anyone at any stage in a tournament and I just think Dimi and Berdy deserved their wins over Nole.

nadline , 5/21/13 4:48 PM

nadline, I never said Rafa is faking. I said Nole could be faking. I don't really trust the ankle drama.

holdserve , 5/21/13 4:55 PM

Before Nole's loss at IW, the commies were beginning to grate with talk of the 2013 Djokovic winning streak as a repeat of 2011 and I was glad that that was knocked on the head by Delpo. The thought of Djoko losing his lead in the race to Rafa deliberately and his chance to rack up his claycourt M1000 titles, is quite far fetched. Furthermore, Djoko knows that Rafa is now the opposition for YE #1 ranking.

nadline , 5/21/13 4:59 PM

holdserve, ed suggested that both Rafa and Nole are holding back so as not to show their hand before RG. I know you are only saying Nole is faking it, but I disagree.

nadline , 5/21/13 5:04 PM

Shireling, 5/21/13 2:51 PM,

I think you are spot on with this comment! Rafa knows that he can meet Novak in either the semis or final at RG. This idea that Rafa is supposedly praying not to meet him, is really quite insulting. Rafa is a professional tennis player. He also was able to find the answers and beat Novak three straight times last year. There is no reason to think that he can't do it again. At MC Rafa was nowhere near ready to beat Novak and he knew it. That's why he was able to deal with that loss.

Rafa will be taking it one match at a time and not think about Novak until he actually meets him at RG.

Nativenewyorker , 5/21/13 6:54 PM

Kneedal fans calling Nole a drama queen? That's like Lance Armstrong fans calling Bradley Wiggins a doper. Stupidity much?


novakisthebest , 5/21/13 7:04 PM

Or Federer calling Novak a sore loser! ha

What do you think of this novakisthebest?

restofATPisthebest , 5/21/13 8:00 PM

Rafael Nadal Proves He's Still Best in the World with Rome Masters Victory


In the final of the 2013 Rome Masters, Rafael Nadal continued his clay-court dominance by decimating Roger Federer in straight sets. With the 6-1, 6-3 win, Nadal moves to 37-2 since returning from a seven-month injury layoff and earns his fifth tournament win in seven tries.

Most importantly, Nadal proves that he's still the best in the world.

As Nadal has battled injuries and thus missed an extended period of time, Novak Djokovic and Andy Murray have risen to the top of the tennis world. Since Nadal has returned, however, the balance of power has returned to it's proper place.

With Nadal on top.

To truly reclaim that No. 1 ranking, it's imperative that Nadal maintains this dominance throughout the course of the season. It's of equal importance that he manages to take down Djokovic in head-to-head clashes as he regains he strength.

As for why, those same folks that said Federer was better than Nadal as the Spaniard dominated their head-to-head battles will call Djokovic's win a sign of superiority?the hypocrisy of biased analysis.

Fortunately for Nadal, he's in prime position to solidify his status as the greatest clay-court performer to ever live. That next test will come at the 2013 French Open, which is an event Nadal has dominated.

Dominance that appears replicable in 2013. s-hes-still-best-in-the-world-with-rome-masters-victory?utm_source=new sletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=tennis

nadline , 5/21/13 9:07 PM

Here is a great article on Naderer...


Conspirator , 5/21/13 9:15 PM

Conspirator, thanks for the link, but it doesn't work.

nadline , 5/21/13 9:37 PM

Works for me but looks like there was one of those spaces TT likes to randomly insert from time to time. Try this again...


Conspirator , 5/21/13 10:40 PM

Nadline: Try again, I've just opened it. But just in case, here is the full URL erer-rafael-nadal-rivalry/index.html

ed251137 , 5/21/13 10:45 PM

Thx nadline nadline , 5/21/13 9:07 PM

I disagree with some things in the article:
'It's of equal importance that he manages to take down Djokovic in head-to-head clashes as he regains he strength.'
- why take it down? he's already ahead in the h2h, or do matches prior to 2011 not count or what?

'Fortunately for Nadal, he's in prime position to solidify his status as the greatest clay-court performer to ever live'

- He's already the greatest clay-court performer to ever live... (well, it'll be nice if he can beat Vilas' record)

Shireling , 5/22/13 5:33 PM

He's already the greatest tennis player to ever live.


Conspirator , 5/22/13 6:08 PM

The bar is always set higher for Rafa. Why?

ed251137 , 5/22/13 6:23 PM

Not only is the bar set higher for Rafa, it's constantly shifted the moment he meets those lofty standards.........

rafaisthebest , 5/22/13 6:29 PM

Because they are all lining their RF caps with tinfoil trying to stave off the truth.


Conspirator , 5/22/13 6:46 PM

After Rafa won Rome, I read that he now needed to concentrate on GOAT status and for that he NEEDED to win at least 3 more Slams, preferably off clay. Can you believe the conceit? Is there a rule book out there specifying what GOAT-ism looks like?

rafaisthebest , 5/22/13 6:58 PM

Thanks, Conspirator. Interesting article, but I feel that the Fedal rivalry really should have been about the #1 ranking ratheaer than their h2h as Rafa has always lead on that score.

Roger is now between a rock and a hard place. If he retires, Rafa is likely to beat his 17 slam count and if he plays on, the gap in their h2h will become too embarrassing for Fed. Fed only has his slam count to hang on to now, Rafa leads in the M1000 count and is the undisputed King of Clay.

nadline , 5/22/13 7:15 PM

Why are lofty standards set for Rafa?............................for HE is high and mighty!!

So for Rafa, I take it as a compliment!

Monalysa , 5/22/13 7:17 PM

That's one way of looking at it @Monalysa and a good way too but for the "evil doers", it's about not, or never, acknowledging Rafa's current accomplishments or worse, demeaning them.

rafaisthebest , 5/22/13 7:28 PM

Every time the thorny subject of Goatness comes up, I find myself wondering would the discussion/argument be raging if it were not for the internet. Egged on by the proliferation of tennis sites and the exponential rise in the number of references to the subject, IMO Roger gradually bought into the idea he was the heir to the title and has been assiduously clocking up records for the history books to this end ever since.

Hence the excessive disappointment and tears when he failed to equal Sampras's Slam record at the AO in 2009 and his insatiable desire to surpass the record for the number of weeks at no.1 - two of the most significant records cherished by anyone hoping to earn the GOAT accolade.

ed251137 , 5/22/13 9:08 PM

Disclaimer: I am already on record as saying I do not subscribe to Goatdom. He is amongst the greatest players in the Open Era, as is Rafa, but no one person should ever be elevated to GOAT.


ed251137 , 5/22/13 9:23 PM

Poor RF! With the rigged draw he had counted on Nole either taking out Rafa or Rafa coming half dead to the final as he had done in Madrid 2009.
Fed's half of the draw was so weak that he would really have had to play at 50% to lose before the finals.
The best laid plans of men and mice....

holdserve , 5/23/13 3:47 AM

My sense, after Rome, was of a Fed coming to terms with Rafa's evolution. An evolution which has seen Rafa transformed into a Player capable of equalling or even surpassing his Slam haul. I saw resignation, acceptance in Roger.

Roger is a very, very intelligent guy. Have you noticed that he has not jumped on the "Nole as Dominator" bandwagon? Yes, there is no love lost between Nole and Roger but Roger has never been one to sugar coat matters......

rafaisthebest , 5/23/13 6:02 AM

RITB - Please elaorate

Have you noticed that he has not jumped on the "Nole as Dominator" bandwagon?

You mean he has never spoken very highly of Nole even after he came into his own 2011 onwards?

sanju , 5/23/13 6:41 AM

I am amazed at the extent to which the most Fed and few Djoko fans want Rafa to fail. Not good, not good, speaks very bad of their own state in life.

Thankgod in real life , I have like 4 good friends who are big Fed fans , yet have never seen them utter negative about Rafa, never ever . They want Fed to win undoubtedly but dont disrespect Rafa and his incredible achievements.

sanju , 5/23/13 7:08 AM

sanju, I am only talking about the lead up to RG. While Fedbots have been clinging to Novak's MC victory, more in hope than expectation, as evidence that Novak will upset Rafa at RG, will dominate at RG, Roger himself is not saying that. In fact, just before the Rome final he made one curious statement, that Rafa has come back from injury so strong he hopes he will be the one to stop him! Hello, Novak had just beaten him at MC, Roger seemed to disregard that with his statement.

Roger, like everybody did, acknowledged Novak's stellar 2011 of course but I have always felt a bit of "frisson" in their relationship..................

rafaisthebest , 5/23/13 7:17 AM

always felt a bit of "frisson" in their relationship..................

Its no secret Roger doesnt like Novak and viceversa. There is an obvious coldness in their demeanour towards each other.

sanju , 5/23/13 7:25 AM


I agree. Fed has never liked Novak. You can see the difference with how he acts with Rafa as opposed to Novak. Fed may not like the lopsided h2h advantage Rafa has over him, but you get the strong sense that he respects and likes Rafa. We know that Rafa reciprocates those feelings in full measure.

Nativenewyorker , 5/23/13 8:36 AM

@ 7:17 AM

'frisson' - that's gotta be the understatement of the year.

The defining moment in the relationship between Rafa and Roger came in Australia when Rafa threw his arm round Roger's shoulder and helped him get through the presentation ceremony. Can you imagine Nole tempering his vulgar showboating if it were he who had been responsible for that defeat?

ed251137 , 5/23/13 10:20 AM

sanju, 5/23/13 7:08 AM

I know what you mean. In spite of watching tennis together for years I never knew my younger sister was a hardcore Fed fan. She was always so low key about it - in deference to my sensibilities - even when he was being beaten by Rafa at the AO. It was not until she starting rooting for Federer against Murray during the Wimbledon final I learnt how strongly she felt!


ed251137 , 5/23/13 11:51 AM

Remember the finger wagging at RG last year?
Can't remember Nole ever doing anything like that.
I think Rog was well able to accept Rafa as a rival, this is normal in the gr8 scheme of things, but the other 2/3/4....?

deuce , 5/23/13 12:05 PM

This comment of yours was completely uncalled for. Can you imagine the vice verse situation? Roger putting his arm round Novak's shoulder and helping him get through the presentation ceremony? Come on! And calling Novak's behaviour 'vulgar showboating'. Novak has been nothing but a true sportsman, showing that million times during his matches, as well as outside the tennis court. So many people try to belittle his achievements and his play and that's just proves that some of you cannot be objective at all, and that you present yourself here as overzealous supporters of some players and not analysts and lovers of the game. Here, we are talking of the 3 of the best players in the history of the game, breaking so many records and making this era the golden era of tennis and you find it necessary to belittle or speak badly of any of them. Come on - you can do better than that. Talk about advantages of your player but respect other players and their supporters.

uroshu , 5/23/13 12:22 PM

"Can't remember Nole ever doing anything like that"
I agree, I can't remember Nole doing anything that friendly after winning.. :P

tj600 , 5/23/13 12:35 PM

Welcome back brothdog, but I don't think things are the same here as they were when you left. The usual suspect rafans seem to have regressed on themselves :-/

ts38 , 5/23/13 12:50 PM

I am feeling bad about this new interview that uncle toni has done!
and novak is still in their heads!
if rafa can pull this off then i am satisfied with his career! he is the GAOT to me! even with out any other slams!

rafaelo , 5/23/13 12:57 PM

Lol tj600, if that's your idea of being "friendly"....EEK!

deuce , 5/23/13 12:59 PM

Conspirator , 5/22/13 6:08 PM

Ahead of Federer, Sampras ? Try again.

samprallica , 5/23/13 1:09 PM

Deuce: The finger wagging incident was 2011 when Roger put an end to Nole's chances for the Calendar Slam, no? The following year Nole got his revenge by winning in straight sets.

In the early days Nole did do the finger wagging gesture quite a bit after he'd won the AO and became almost unbearably cocky.

ed251137 , 5/23/13 1:24 PM

Next to Rafa (or more likely equal), Sampras was my favourite player but it is easy analytically for me to put Rafa ahead of Pete. Pete has three more slams and more years at No. 1 but he never got a French sadly and Rafa has many more Masters 1000s. Also, Rafa is still adding to his legacy.

Admittedly, putting Rafa above Fed is, for me, a closer call but Fed is done practically while Rafa can still add significantly to his totals. Couple that with their h2h (no, not everything, but certainly a significant factor i.e., Sampras was never owned by a peer and nor is Rafa), and Rafa leading the Race after returning from such a long layoff in arguably the toughest competition of the history, then, yes, for me in my opinion (and that is all any GOAT discussion is), Rafa is the best.


Conspirator , 5/23/13 1:31 PM

Conspirator , 5/23/13 1:31 PM

Possibly, but Rafa hasn't been on top of his own era for half the time Sampras and Federer were on top of theirs. secondly, playing conditions have been neutralised so much it is possible that we may have three career slammers in the space of 4 years - which kind of indicates a vastly different set of playing conditions. My point is the GOAT thing is very arguable - if your point was a subjective opinion then it is fair game.

samprallica , 5/23/13 1:40 PM

There also is the issue of relative importance of tournaments. The super 9s weren't as important or publicised as they are today; and Pete seemed to reserve his best for the slams, WTF and Grand Slam Cup.

samprallica , 5/23/13 1:43 PM

uroshu, 5/23/13 12:22 PM

This thread is about the Federer-Nadal rivalry and I was commenting on the mutual respect between these two men in contrast to the relationshiop between Federer and Nole.

I am not alone in finding the excessive showboating distasteful. I accept the cultural differences between nations and understand the reasons for Nole's unseemly behaviour. It still doesn't make it acceptable in the eyes of many, many tennis fans.

ed251137 , 5/23/13 1:46 PM

Rafa is the best.


Conspirator , 5/23/13 1:31 PM

About bloody time you recognised that.........

rafaisthebest , 5/23/13 1:46 PM

In my opinion, Rafa just recently earned that status (for me) RITB.

Yes Samps, for sure, opinion is all a GOAT claim can be, no?

I don't necessarily subscribe to the court homogenization. Have a look at this... (The Mirage of Surface Speed Convergence).

I also agree that the super 9's (or whatever) weren't the same priority to Pete but maybe that helped him win more slams. All very subjective again agreed.

BTW, if you think Pete or Roger are GOAT (or, for that matter, feel there is no such thing as GOAT), I can certainly see an argument for that and respect your opinion on the matter.

I'd much rather be having these discussions than putting down Fed (just to troll the trolls). Fed is a truly amazing player and I love to watch him play. Hope he is in Montreal this summer so I can see him live again!


Conspirator , 5/23/13 2:32 PM

His follow up note...

If Surfaces are Converging?
Internet discussion has perked up about a post of mine from last month, The Mirage of Surface Speed Convergence.

Many people don?t like my results, and plenty of people just don?t like having someone challenge their preconceived notions?or those of the players they idolize.

Yet for all the chatter, no one has even attempted to address the question at the end of that post:

If surfaces are converging, why is there a bigger difference in aces now than there was 10, 15, or 20 years ago? Why don?t we see hard-court break rates getting any closer to clay-court break rates?

Unless there is a valid answer to those questions, it really doesn?t matter how you felt after watching the Miami final, or what a top player said in some press conference.


Conspirator , 5/23/13 3:01 PM

Sampras: Smash, volley, point. Smash, volley, point............

Sorry, I slept through the Sampras era.

I may not like Roger's off-court persona but I find his game eminently watchable, shanks and all.

I shall not bore you by telling you who I think is the best tennis player ever.........

rafaisthebest , 5/23/13 3:25 PM

samprallica, 5/23/13 1:40 PM,

This business of playing conditions being neutralized is a bunch of baloney. I don't know why this keeps being thrown around to try and demean achievements of other players.

With that kind of thinking, then the fact that Rod Laver won the calendar slam twice would be compromised because they only played on clay and grass at that time. They didn't even have hard courts at that time.

This neutralizing of playing conditions really bothers me because I think it is a fundamentally dishonest argument. One can easily argue that the game has become much more physically demanding than it was even when Sampras was playing. I also don't buy that stuff about relative importance of tournaments.

I never get into the GOAT argument, because I don't believe in it. So nobody is GOAT as far as I am concerned. You can only be the greatest in your own era. There should be a list of the greatest to ever play that game. Being included on that list should be enough.

Nativenewyorker , 5/23/13 7:55 PM

Federer is not one of Toni Nadal?s French favorites

"I do not see him amongst the favorites," Toni Nadal said. "My top three favorites are [Novak] Djokovic, [David] Ferrer and Rafael. That's today. Later we'll see who is going to play better because [Juan Martin] del Potro, [Tomas] Berdych and [Grigor] Dimitrov can raise their levels and end up being candidates. I don't see Federer so much as a favorite because that's the rule of life. He's played for many years and when you've won as much as Roger Federer ... on clay, which is not his favorite surface, so maybe you're not willing to sacrifice as much. Maybe he'll be a favorite at Wimbledon or the U.S. Open, but not at Roland Garros."


Conspirator , 5/23/13 8:02 PM

We won't have to worry about Delpo because he withdrew. As far as Berdy, he hasn't shown the mental toughness and consistency required to win a slam. He has come close at times but couldn't get the job done. I don't think Dimitrov is anywhere near ready to win a slam.

I think Uncle Toni is right about Fed. He wouldn't be a favorite at this stage of his career. Maybe a favorable draw will help him get through to the semis, but I can't see him winning RG.

Nativenewyorker , 5/23/13 9:32 PM

So Uncle Toni suspects Roger might not, how can I put this tactfully, be as interested in winning Roland Garros as he might be. Like the 2012 SF when he meekly accepted a straight sets defeat by Nole a couple of weeks before Wimbledon and the Olympics. Of course he was more motivated the year before: Nole was on a tear and Roger was planning on stopping him gate-crashing the elite Career Grand Slam Club.

ed251137 , 5/23/13 10:43 PM


You sound like you are the same age as your screen name! LOL!

Nativenewyorker , 5/24/13 12:40 AM

Strange question coming from a Fed fan. I thought all surfaces were the same now?

How? By achieving ALL of the following:
By having a winning H2H vs all of your peers in >10 matches played (unlike Fed)
By having a career Grand Slam (unlike Sampras).
By having a singles Gold medal (unlike Federer or Sampras).
By winning the most 1000 level tournaments.


Conspirator , 5/24/13 1:23 AM

Conspirator, did you forget Fed fans are delusional? One of the symptoms of a delusional status is ability to keep two contradictory thoughts in the mind at the same time.
Two sets of contradictory thoughts which I can cite here off the top of my head:
A . thought 1: Rafa's physical style makes him injury prone. He will retire soon
contradictory thought 2: Rafa is never injured. All his injury breaks are false. He is serving a silent ban for doping or he is suffering loss of confidence after being beaten by Soderling ( or Rosol)

Set B : What you pointed out above:
Thought 1: All surfaces have now become the same
Contradictory thought 2: Clay is an inferior surface and Rafa's h2h against Fed doesn't count as most of the h2h is on clay.

holdserve , 5/24/13 6:19 AM

rafans! what is this arguing all about?! today's draw ceremony! lets just wish a good draw for rafa! I hope nole won't be in the same half!

rafaelo , 5/24/13 6:41 AM

Left knee repaired and will be ready to go in time for the USO, when I shall swap left knees with Rafa. Rafa's left knee will have a shock being a couch potato whilst mine would know what hit it being attached to super Rafa.

Hopefully, there won't be any need for us to swap knees because Rafa will be fully fit, left knee and all.

nadline , 5/24/13 9:40 AM

seventeen, sorry, twenty, holdserve has been posting here a lot longer than you, as far as I know, unless you have been posting under a different name.

Rafa wasn't in the top 2 for the best part of 8 years just by winning clay titles. Of his 11 GS titles only 7 are on clay. Rafa has got as many non-clay slam titles as Djoker and Muzz put together.

When Rafa said there are only 2 types of courts - fast and slow - he was being sarcastic, because every time he wins a title on a 'fast' court, his detractors say the court was playing slow on that occasion.

nadline , 5/24/13 9:51 AM

Why people still choose to debate is beyond me. Everyone has there own ideas and opinions and they will never change. There are arguments for all players. I for one am mightily impressed with Rafa's comeback since his injury. His level has been very high and consistent. Will be interesting to see what the season has in store for him after the clay season, another Wimby title? I wouldn't bet against it. US Open will be Nole or Muzza.

Rafa is not yet the GOAT, but there is a chance he can surpass Fed's record. All be it slim. Other factor's come in to Fed's GOATness for me such as his consistency in all the slams, weeks at No1, only player to Have 10 plus titles on all 4 surfaces (indoor and outdoor hard being separate) People don't seem to mention his 6 wtf wins as well. Just because Rafa has never won one the Rafan's seem to diminish it's importance.

You could see how much it meant to Nole beating Fed last year to show that it is a very important title to claim. 17 slams to 11 is huge, only a hand full of people have ever managed to win 6 or more in there whole carrer, so to ask Rafa to do that at nearly 27 is a massive ask. And of course I still believe Fed can win another slam or 2 yet. 13 -2 on clay but 8 - 7 to Fed everywhere else. Can Rafa surpass Roger as the GOAT? Of course he can, but lets wait until he has 18 slams and the record weeks as the worlds no1 player, Rafa has the record for all time world no2. But there is a huge difference in being the best and second best.

brothdog , 5/24/13 9:55 AM


For those of us who do not believe in the GOAT, your recitation of stats and records and whatever really isn't convincing. I happen to believe that a player can only be the greatest in his own era and that there are a few players who have managed to do this.

It's beyond insulting to posit Fed as GOAT, when there is a Rod Laver who has records that are still standing over forty years later. That is the true test of greatness. Borg was the last player to win the channel slam and it took twenty eight years for Rafa to be the one to do it. Borg won the channel slam three years in a row and that feat has yet to be equaled. It took thirty years for Rafa to break Borg's record of six titles at RG.

You can't erase the great players from the past and that is what this GOAT business really is all about. We should celebrate the greatest players over the decades of this sport. Yes, it's true that there were great champions long before Fed came along.

Nativenewyorker , 5/24/13 10:11 AM

brothdog, you wonder why people go on about this that and the other then in the next breath declare Muzz or Nole the USO champions. May I remind you that Rafa has also beaten those 2 at the USO?

nadline , 5/24/13 10:51 AM

brothdog, at age 26 Roger had one more slam title than Rafa's got at the same age, so it's not impossible for Rafa to equal or surpass Roger's haul of slams.

nadline , 5/24/13 10:54 AM

In no way did I diminish others achievements. I just stated a few records as to why I believe Fed the best player ever. It's just my opinion, as well as Borg's and Laver's for that matter. Who have both came out and said they believe Federer to be the greatest. They know much more about the game than you or I.

It may not convince you NNY but they are the facts, plain and simple. I don't need to convince you or anyone else. It's just the way it is. That he has Nadline, but we are going back 3 years now. Nole and Muzza have both matured, peaked and been the dominant forces on the hard court slams. Can Rafa beat them?? Of course, is it likely, for me, no, it isn't. I'd rate Fed's chances higer at Flushing meadows higher than Rafa's as he only has 1 title there in 10 years.

GOAT or no GOAT, Federer's records stand out from any other players in the history of the sport, and that can not be denied.

brothdog , 5/24/13 11:05 AM

Nadline if you read my post I said it is possible for Nadal to break Fed's records! Of course it is, he's still young! Wow this is hard work.

brothdog , 5/24/13 11:07 AM

Rafa in Novaks half

There it is as expected

sanju , 5/24/13 12:06 PM

shit! so sad :(

rafaelo , 5/24/13 12:08 PM

Rafa vs Daniel Brands 1t round

Fed faces 2 qualifiers 1st 2 rounds

The entire draw is like a cakewalk for Fed.

sanju , 5/24/13 12:08 PM

Djoko vs Goffin 1st round

sanju , 5/24/13 12:09 PM

sanju where do you get the draw?

rafaelo , 5/24/13 12:10 PM

Berdy vs Monfils Round 1, Gulbis vs Berdy Round 2

Grigor vs Novak Round 3 supposedly

sanju , 5/24/13 12:11 PM

Who got Tipsy in their QF?

sabs , 5/24/13 12:11 PM

twitter live updates

will post QF match ups soon

Azarenka Sharapova same half

Serena gets Radwanska

sanju , 5/24/13 12:15 PM

Your doing well brothdog. If I were a Fed Fan I would probably be arguing the same points. It's all a question of perspective ;-)

I dont think many Rafans rubbish Roger's achievements and records which are awesome. What gets their backs up are the dismissive remarks and lack of respect for Rafa's achievements.

I hasten to add, you are not guilty of this crime.

One can safely predict Rafa is unlikely to come near to the number of weeks at No.1, or to challenge Fed's WTF trophies. But there is more than one way to skin a cat.

ed251137 , 5/24/13 12:15 PM

I think its awesome that rafa will get play djokovic in the semis!

willmw101 , 5/24/13 12:17 PM

I too think and was rooting For Rafa Djoko in semi

Trust me Djoko in final will be far more difficult and will pose greater issues for Rafa

sanju , 5/24/13 12:21 PM

Thanks ed. I appreciate your comment. Who ever tries to deny Rafa's greatness clearly is not interested in tennis at all, because a blind man can see how much it means to him to be back at the top of the game.

As for the draw. It's no suprise. When fed was 1 and rags 2 the dress were always 1 and 3 and 2 and 4 in the semis. Muzzas withdrawal has aided fed but that is not his fault. Rafa seeded 3 was always going to get nole in the semis. No matter, he will beat Nole and Fed back to back to cla his 8th title. He is so strong at the moment and his belief is there. If I were a betting man I'd put my mortgage on it.

brothdog , 5/24/13 12:23 PM

I don't think so! joker is joker!the sooner they meet the worse is the result!

rafaelo , 5/24/13 12:23 PM

sanju i really dont think rafa cared when he met djokovic. He still might not meet djokovic at all if novak's recent form continues. One game at a time and lets just see who's left standing in 2 weeks time. Big chance for berdych at RG.

willmw101 , 5/24/13 12:24 PM


Jo-Willy Fedfan

sanju , 5/24/13 12:25 PM

Eager to see 4th round matchups. QF are above

Rafa avoided Gulbis pheww :-)

sanju , 5/24/13 12:27 PM

djoker quarter could get worse! except grigor it is an easy one! specially with tipsy!

rafaelo , 5/24/13 12:31 PM

Fed having easy rounds in 1st 2 is a disadvantage for him. We saw what happened in Rome

sanju , 5/24/13 12:35 PM

Rafa has Foginini /Rosol round

sanju , 5/24/13 12:38 PM

Berdych gets Monfils, then Gulbis. Ouch.

tj600 , 5/24/13 12:38 PM

RT @Rafael_Plaza: " @Rafael_Plaza Djokovic potential #RG13 road: R1: Goffin; R2: Dodig; R3: Dimitrov; R4: Kohlschreiber; Q: Tiparevic; SF: Nadal; F: Federer "

RT @Rafael_Plaza: "@Rafael_Plaza Nadal's potential #RG13 road: R1: Brands; R2: Klizan; R3: Paire; R4: Nishikori; Q: Gasquet; SF: Djokovic; F: Federer. "

rafaisthebest , 5/24/13 12:39 PM

nishikori! djoker! these two are the obstacles for his 8th!

rafaelo , 5/24/13 12:40 PM

"No.2 seed Roger Federer gets a qualifier in both the first and second round and David Ferrer in his half. Couldn't have asked for more. #atp"


Conspirator , 5/24/13 12:44 PM

My only concern is that Rafa has never played Brands before and as such Rafa can only figure out his game during the match witch can be tricky.........same with Klizan.

rafaisthebest , 5/24/13 12:46 PM

Nishikori Rafelo? Cmon bro :-)

sanju , 5/24/13 12:46 PM

Oh my people, please dont worry about Brands, Klizan, Nishikori


sanju , 5/24/13 12:49 PM

Nishikori like players play kamikaze! And it's dangerous!

rafaelo , 5/24/13 12:54 PM

@sanju, being concerned is not the same as being worried...

Just saying.....

rafaisthebest , 5/24/13 12:58 PM

@12:17 PM
Wills will be in anti-jinx overdrive for the next two weeks. lol

@12:21 PM
I preferred the earlier scenario before Rafa won in Rome!!!!!

@12:46 PM
Unless somebody tapes banana skins to his shoes in the early rounds Rafa will arrive at the SF ready and rearing to go.

ed251137 , 5/24/13 1:10 PM

TillQF, all 3 Djoko, Fed, Rafa have breeze draws

QF Fed has the toughest as he faces Willy

Djoko - Rafa semi is the real deal and willnw..looking at Djokos draw I dont think he will get upset anyway. Grirgor wont beat him in best of 5, hell start cramping by

sanju , 5/24/13 1:22 PM

wawrinka too is in rafa's quarter! quiet strong quarter

rafaelo , 5/24/13 1:24 PM

Yes he avoided Rafa but Tsonga and Berdy/Ferrer back to back can be gruelling matches for Fed

sanju , 5/24/13 1:24 PM

rafelo..Stan /Gasquet for Rafa in QF..Stan has thigh injury, he may not even reach that far

sanju , 5/24/13 1:25 PM

I bet if u ask Rafa would he prefer Nole in semis or finals, Rafa will say semis

If you ask Nole that, he will say finals

So guys I for sure am happy Rafa in Noles half

sanju , 5/24/13 1:28 PM

yeah I know ;)

rafaelo , 5/24/13 1:31 PM

Oh bum! I expect all us "neutrals" were really hoping for a Nole v Rafa final.

deuce , 5/24/13 1:32 PM

Rafa gets Brands, Wawrinka, Gasquet?
Novak gets Goffin, Haas, Tipsarevic?
Fed gets qualifiers, Simon, Tsonga?
Poor Ferrer gets Raonic, Berdych?

Shireling , 5/24/13 1:36 PM

if anyone actually thinks tipsarevic will reach the quarters they are crazy.

willmw101 , 5/24/13 1:39 PM

Deuce: you can go off people sometimes ;-)

ed251137 , 5/24/13 3:20 PM

With this draw, Novak's chances to win RG dramatically increase! Now I would say that the chances of winning RG are as follows: 51% Novak, 49% Rafa, 1% somebody else. I'd like to hear your predictions, and then we'll see who got it right at the end of the day!

uroshu , 5/24/13 5:23 PM

The flying man is chr20: a.243128879049100.76928.243123739049614&type=1&theater

rafaisthebest , 5/24/13 5:39 PM



What made you think it's chr20 the flaying man?

Raindrops , 5/24/13 6:45 PM

^^^He looks evil and is dripping with Rafa hate, and its that hate which makes him levitate.............

rafaisthebest , 5/24/13 7:02 PM

brothdog, 5/24/13 11:05 AM,

Rod Laver said that a player can only be the greatest in his era, that there is no GOAT. I never heard Borg say that Fed was the greatest ever. I know that he thinks Rafa is the greatest clay court player ever. Please don't put words in people's mouths.

Sampras was asked about Fed's losing h2h against Rafa in an interview. He said that it's a real problem when talking about someone as the greatest of all time.

I am not about trashing Fed. I have expressed my respect for him many times. However, when it comes to the GOAT argument I have also stated my position. Fed will go down as one of the greatest to ever play. That should be enough.

Nativenewyorker , 5/24/13 7:21 PM

^^^^Operative phrase being "has been".


Conspirator , 5/24/13 8:47 PM

seventeen going on twenty,

So where is the specific interview in which Borg said it? Sorry, but your word is definitely not good enough!

I am going with the one man who would be the GOAT if there ever could be one - Rod Laver!

Sorry, introducing Fed that way doesn't count! Opinion not fact!

Nativenewyorker , 5/24/13 8:54 PM

"Whenever FED is mentioned in a tv programme be it about tennis or something else ...Federer the greatest player of all time is announced. The goat titel has been liven to Fed."

Don't make up stories!!!..............they say arguably.............its never stated as undisputed and its not!!!

Monalysa , 5/24/13 9:04 PM

Seventeen, who cares?? Take your GOAT, water it, shampoo it, walk it, cuddle it, whatever!! We have a Slam to look forward to and do us all a favor, take your GOAT with you!

rafaisthebest , 5/24/13 10:35 PM

rafaisthebest, 5/24/13 10:35 PM,

When did you get so funny? LOL! Usually we have to rely on Conspirator for our humor. I am still laughing even as I type this!

It is so tiring to read these one notes who come on here and just blab on endlessly about Fed being the GOAT!

Too funny! Love it!

Nativenewyorker , 5/25/13 12:33 AM

nny, believe me I was tempted to ask him to take his GOAT somewhere where the sun don't shine but then I reminded myself, I am a nice person!

Really, it's sounds more and more that these people who go on and on about Fed's GOAT-hood are trying to convince themselves more than anybody else......

If Fed is GOAT, his stats will speak for themselves............

rafaisthebest , 5/25/13 7:46 AM


You were being polite! But it was great the way your frustration came out. Sometimes when you just can't stand it any more, then that's when the humor just bursts out because it's enough already!

It would be nice if they would change the record or sing another tune at times.

Once I started laughing, I just couldn't stop! The way you worded it was hilarious. Well done! :)

Nativenewyorker , 5/25/13 8:26 AM

They have said it on numerous occasions nny. Just because you have not seen/heard it doesn't mean it didn't happen. RITB is correct, his stats do speak for themselves. They prove he is the best when it comes down to the most important tournaments. It's not even a matter of opinion, they are facts and they don't lie.

brothdog , 5/25/13 11:30 AM

As per stats, Fed is the best of all current active players. Whether he is goat, I don't know. I didn't see laver, Borg etc. play. When at his best, he was awesome to watch.

atul1985 , 5/25/13 11:56 AM

Fedfans need to stop "proving" Fed's GOATness through negatives i.e. trotting out what Rafa HAS NOT done or achieved, and instead focus on Fed's POSITIVES i.e. what he has achieved and in this respect it is not necessary to bang on about his achievements. As I said, his record speaks for itself.

This business of, until Rafa reaches this and that milestone, he cannot be considered GOAT is a case in point. Who died and made Fedfans GOAT arbiters?

Fact is, Fedfans need to let go of their fear of Rafa, enjoy Fed's achievements and accept Rafa's incredible achievements as well. If at some point, Rafa's achievements eclipse Fed's (as well they will at the rate he is going), then just accept and don't move the goal-posts.

rafaisthebest , 5/25/13 12:30 PM

All the best stats? Really?

Winning h2h against each of the other Top 4? No.
Most Masters 1000? No
Multiple majors on each surface type? No.

Those are all Rafa's.

Roger is a great player with many great statistics. No need to exaggerate the facts.

GOAT is subjective opinion only.


Conspirator , 5/25/13 12:56 PM

I don't do that ritb. I list what fed has achieved and I don't diminish Rafa, where have I done that? Also why would I do that? Rafa is a great champion and I have never questioned that. He is one of the greatest tennis players to ever live, and the clay GOAT. No question.

I didn't say he has 'all the best stats' Conspirator. Masters 1000 are not the most important tournaments are they? I thought it was the slams, no? Maybe we have moved the goal posts for that one a little. Rafa has many records Fed can't achieve and vice versa. I can understand your defence of Rafa is I was having digs at him. But unlike some on here I don't do that. Yor are right Conspirator it is subjecte of course and everyone will have their own opinion.


brothdog , 5/25/13 1:36 PM




Twinge , 5/25/13 2:13 PM

Sorry @brothdog, my comments were not directed at you specifically, just general......

rafaisthebest , 5/25/13 2:18 PM

It's fine ritb, I just don't want people to think because Fed is my favourite player I have no time for the others. They are all great champions. There are a lot of people that do slam Rafa so I can see why you would say that, I'm not one of those. The top 4 have raised the bar for men's tennis and Fed's time is running short. I just hope he has a couple more magic moments left in him.

brothdog , 5/25/13 2:54 PM

Oh but he does have more than a couple of 'magic moments' left in him Brothdog!
I, for one, simply live for his Lindt choccy ads.....

Twinge , 5/25/13 3:06 PM

I honestly do not see Fed winning any more majors, even with the benefit of soft draws, especially if he maintains a relatively full schedule. If he really was going for Wimby he should have skipped Paris, imho, unless he is planning on taking it easy here. He would have to count on not one but two major upsets to get to the finals and win............

rafaisthebest , 5/25/13 3:29 PM

Fed maybe a goat to climb Swiss Alps but a tennis GOAT? That is a mythical animal. Just because some Fedbots in the media keep repeating that Fed is a GOAT, it doesn't make him one. We have to wait for another 10 or 20 years at least before history can more objectively evaluate the achievements of Fed and Rafa. Frankly I think Laver has a better claim right now. Though if Rafa's knee holds up, he may surpass Laver.

holdserve , 5/25/13 4:17 PM

'Though if Rafa's knee holds up, he may surpass Laver....'

Respectfully Rafas knees are not going to hold up Holdserve, surely you know the writing is on the wall with that.
And even if they do...
I'm sorry but how can Rafa be a goat when he gets his clock cleaned regularly by another player?
Had you said this in 2010 I would have agreed about the possibility but those days are gone forever.
The main reason I don't believe Fed is the goat is the main reason I don't think Rafa can be the GOAT either.
He will always be my CCG however, and no one can take that away from Rafa regardless of what happens in 10 days time.
For the time being anyway.
See this GOAT business isn't very forward looking either
oh well.

Twinge , 5/25/13 4:32 PM

History will look at their h2h and Nole is 15-19. Not regular enough yet. We will see, no?


Conspirator , 5/25/13 4:46 PM

Also, some misunderstandings perhaps broth dog. I was in a hurry.


Conspirator , 5/25/13 4:54 PM

'History will look at their h2h and Nole is 15-19'

Yeah right,
I fear the only way this h2h is going to remain positive for Rafa is if one of them dies!
The better the historian, the more nuanced the assessment.
Here's another stat;
Over the last 2 years Novak has won 8 matches on EVERY surface against Nadal.
Rafa has won 3 of the total 11 matches,
Those 3 were on clay for Nadal & he hasn't even managed to pull that one off this year yet.
I'm sorry but i will take the now mature Djokovic's forward momentum over the declining Rafa's any day of the week.

Twinge , 5/25/13 5:24 PM

Twinge, let it rest, you are not winning this're not. If Novak makes it to the semis, Rafa will be there, and Rafa will beat him. H2h will read, 20/15 nd there will be no mention of the surface. Surface details will only be relevant to a small core of Fedbots who believe the earth is flat. 2011 is history.

rafaisthebest , 5/25/13 5:49 PM

Oh nonsense the clay court goat's records on clay will be seen differently than his others for as long as people actively care.
Because he is The Clay Court Goat silly!
Anyway my obvious point is that so far Rafa probably isn't going to beat Novak anywhere else going forth...
And the clay has but one tournament more to go.
Still you never know :-)

Twinge , 5/25/13 6:16 PM

Another thing if a player when fully developed starts to consistently beat a player that had previously beaten them consistently,
Is that player still the lesser if their H2H is still somewhat in the previous players favour?
Is Darth Vader Greater than Luke Skywalker?
I don't buy it for a second!
You might want to rest on Rafa laurels and the way history seems to be congregating around him but to me he is going to have to go out there & prove himself all over again.
History be damned!

Twinge , 5/25/13 6:36 PM

Twinge..Why are you so stressed about trying to write Rafas obituary so soon? You seem to be rather fearing him.

The effort you try to put in denigrating Rafa is inexplicable. And your constant upholding of Novak over Rafa is inexplicable too given that you a Murray fan.

And yes everyone has to prove themselves out there, neither can Nole rest on 2011 laurels, neither Rafa on 08 & 10 and neither Fed on 04-07.

And so you saying Nole fully developed in 2011 when he was No 3 all along from 07 till 10 (4 years). He was fully developed gaamewise before too, he just didnt have the mental belief.

sanju , 5/25/13 6:56 PM

Er yes that's exactly what I'm saying
Any idiot could see that change..
Mental development has to be included logically speaking in the game of tennis..
Stop whining Sanju
I don't support Novak over Rafa and I fear nothing.
But I don't like smug Fedal fans and their deluded ways either.
I'm torn somewhat but what I won't do is bullshit for the sake of making everything hunky dory here.
Why the f**k should I?
My opinions are mine and I have to be honest

Twinge , 5/25/13 7:03 PM

Twinge You think everyone else is whining but reality is you whine the most.

And if you have your opinions and you think you are honest, the rest (sane ones on this site and not talking about the bots) have their opinions and honest ones at that.

If RITB thinks Rafa beats Novak, thats her opinion, if you think Novak beats Rafa , thats yours. Finally who plays better on the court will win.

Yes Nole had an amazing 2011 and got 7 wins but how can you be so sure that Nole will keep continuing to exercise domination over Rafa going forth. What makes you so sure Rafa cant right the ship at all?

Just because Rafa Fed followed a pattern, it doesnt necessarily mean Nole Rafa will follow same pattern.

But I just cant get why are you so adamant on trying to prove Noles superiority over Rafa . You have been going on n on about it since past so many months :-) If you are an objective tennis fan, after Rafa came back and won 6 tourneys, you would have come and said a word positive about him atleast, but I never saw u do that, you find reasons to bring him down always getting Nole into he picture. And you say you dont hate Rafa? Give us a break, you sure do.

sanju , 5/25/13 7:14 PM

"2011 is history."

So is 2010. Most people who know the earth is not flat will also know that Djokovic has been no.1 for last 2 year ends. He is 8-3 against Rafa including 3-3 on rafa's strongest surface.

It is easy to see which fans are running scared of playing the other in the semi. Novak has been in the semi-finals of the last 11 slams. Please tell us the record for Rafa? Oh right, he sat out some slams, he got beat by Rosol in 2nd round in one and got beaten by ferrer in AO 2011 and so on.

I can only imagine the lunacy from rafafarts if rafa gets bounced by Nole in the semis.

Let's go nole!

JamesDjokovicFan , 5/25/13 7:27 PM

We do not have to imagine your lunacy when Novak gets bounced by Rafa, you will simply disappear from the boards as is your want.

rafaisthebest , 5/25/13 7:34 PM

Rafa has been in 16 slam finals, won 11, has been in 19 slam semis. And hes not done yet

For Nole it is 6 slam wins, 10 slam finals (if I am right- 07 USO, 10 USO, 12 FO, 12 USO he was finalist)

Go dwell on tat :-) Still a long way to go buddy

If Nole beats Rafa, which he surely can , we will say Well played Nole

sanju , 5/25/13 7:37 PM

@sanju 7:14

"What makes you so sure Rafa cant right the ship at all?"

No one stopped the guy from righting the ship in 2012 after he was sunk miserably. I am sorry we are not as blind as you that a tennis player at the top of his career has to keep sitting out of the sport with "injuries". Every athlete playing any sport at the international level has injuries. Deal with it.

Rafa might or might not right the ship, but only a moron would claim he has been a better player than Novak for the last 2 years.

JamesDjokovicFan , 5/25/13 7:37 PM

@sanju, Rafa righted the ship in 2012. MC 2013 was not a surprise, some people may take comfort from Novak's win as a sign of supremacy, I am sure Novak and his team are too savvy to do that. Not undermining Novak's victory, just saying deep down Novak knows that was a victory foretold. 2013 Novak has been a shadow of 2011 Novak so far. He may surprise us and regain form during RG 2013, but this is highly unlikely.

My humble opinion.

rafaisthebest , 5/25/13 7:40 PM

Haha..We will see, everyone needs to play still, time will tell.

And I dont think anyone ever said Rafa has been better player than Novak in 2011, 2012..because he simply isnt past 2 years - you hallucinating, making things up where it shouldn't be?

But just coz he wasnt in 2011 n 2012, doesnt mean he cant right the ship going forth

sanju , 5/25/13 7:40 PM

"Still a long way to go buddy "

It is still smaller than the difference at the beginning of 2011. Fair to say, Djokovic's star is on the rise.


I think it is better to keep your mouth shut than display the lunacy that rafafarts do. Then again, that's me. You might prefer what your rafabots do.

JamesDjokovicFan , 5/25/13 7:42 PM

sanju, don't forget........according to the Fedbots, Rafa's 3 victories over Novak in 2012 never happened, 2012 never existed apart from that day at Wimbledon when Rafa was beaten by Rosol. So for them, 2011 jumped straight to 2013, to the MC 2013 tournament in fact..............

rafaisthebest , 5/25/13 7:44 PM

"But just coz he wasnt in 2011 n 2012, doesnt mean he cant right the ship going forth"

I am basing my statements on evidence of last year - where Rafa "righted the ship" till the clay season and kaput. not basing on some hallucinations and visions that rafabots keep dishing out.

JamesDjokovicFan , 5/25/13 7:45 PM

Don't worry, nothing to debate here. When you tell me to keep my mouth shut, it means what is coming out of it is making you uncomfortable.


rafaisthebest , 5/25/13 7:47 PM

I don't whine at all.
Being objective is not the same as whining.
Perhaps you don't think your last post is whiny but it seems to me that it very much is..
Anyway You're not going to shut me up Sanju no one but the moderators can
do that here.
Nadline is away for some reason so you are going to take up her role, is that it?
This 'complaint' from you has to be seen through your own emotional state.
Is that not fair to say?
That I should come on here and be pleased about Rafa's clay court success when I don't give 2 hoots about him or his fans and have never given any impression otherwise is ridiculous.
Perhaps if I said 'Rafa is wonderful but I think Novak is going to smash him' it might have helped but I'm just being objective.
It will go the other way too but there hasn't been you know much reason to state otherwise recently has there?
I'm not anti Novak or Rafa and also tellingly to me i am never too bothered when they beat Andy either (that nasty feeling is reserved for Fed due to his attitude) but I don't support them at all and I am not going to be a hypocrite about it.
Change your expectations about my presence here and you will find that you won't care that I don't follow the general narrative.
Trust me Sanju I don't hate Rafa, and I don't love Andy Murray either although he is my favourite for this sport.
If I hated Nadal I would make all of your lives a misery here or at least try to like the fedbots lamely attempt to.
Perspective please.

Twinge , 5/25/13 7:48 PM

I don't know which poster traumatised your thick psyche, but I mentioned that Djokovic was 8-3 against Nadal since 2011 and rafa "righted" the ship on clay last year.

You would not be a rafatard if you could read properly, would you?

Again, Djokovic was not the one who stayed off the tour for 7months claiming injury. We all know who did that, unless you have buried your head in the sand or living under a rock!

JamesDjokovicFan , 5/25/13 7:53 PM

JamesDjokovicFan - Just do usa favour. All of us Rafa fans have been here from 2010-2013,no one has done a disappearing act. I hope you will be man enough and stay here and not go underground just in case Novak does not fare well

There is a reference point - Danica as a perfect Nole fan, just saying :-)

sanju , 5/25/13 7:55 PM

And for the record, we all know these "Johnny-come-latelys" are no Novak fans, they are frustrated Fedbots..............

rafaisthebest , 5/25/13 8:04 PM

No doubt RITB.

Sanju don't waste your time with the fedfarts. they posts under the guise as a Novak fans. We've been here for so long and no Nole fans that I remember agreeing with the stink fedfarts....ASK MY GOOD FRIEND ZARE. Look at the flow of thinking of this JamesDjokovicFan it is no different to those fedfarts we encountered in the past. This man/woman appeared 2 or 3 days after FedKovic burst into the scene and then followed by Rogervic hahaha these clowns fedfarts are axxholes.

Raindrops , 5/25/13 8:46 PM

Well said Raindrops and RITB!!!

While I respect your opinion Twingey, you are wrong. ;)

If Fed had a 15-19 record vs Rafa with all his other incredible accomplishments then I'd still be giving the GOAT nod to Fed.

However, Nole has a losing record and nowhere NEAR Rafa's accomplishments sorry.

The Rafa Nole rivalry is going through ebbs and flows as these two greats continue to push each other.

For sure, IMO, Nole had the best single year (or should I say eight months) that I've ever witnessed. Better than Rafa or Fed but eight months is simply not long enough.

Let's see. even if Nole ended up with a slight h2h advantage over Rafa which I highly doubt but let's entertain the thought, he still would have to win many more majors and other tournaments for me to consider him better than Rafa.

If he can return to his 2011 level AND sustain it, I believe he could do it but I don't see that happening. He seems to have regressed.

Did you know that Rafa is the only active player with multiple majors to his name on all three surfaces?

Who was the last player to do that???


Conspirator , 5/25/13 9:11 PM

brothdog, 5/25/13 11:30 AM,

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. You may think it's been said but that doesn't change my opinion about this whole GOAT debate. I do not believe in it, never have, never will! I do know that Rod Laver has said more than once that a player can only be the greatest in his era. I heard him say it in an interview that has been quoted and referenced many times.

I actually think ritb said it well @ 12:30 PM. I really can't say it any better. Once Fed and Rafa retire, then this whole business about their respective careers can be sorted out and each will have their place in history.

Nativenewyorker , 5/25/13 9:17 PM

I note that holdserve said the same thing earlier in the post @ 4:17 PM. I have been saying that at this point, Rod Laver has a better claim on being GOAT. We both agree that their place in history can only be decided when they are done playing. Rafa has said the same thing. So these endless debates back and forth really serve no purpose.

Rafa and Fed each have their own individual records. The key is whether they stand the test of time. Rod Laver has records that still have not been broken more than forty years later. Borg had the channel slam for twenty eight years until 2008 when Rafa did it and also had the record for most RG titles until Rafa surpassed him last year thirty years later.

I do think that both Fed and Rafa have records that will stand the test of time. They will both join the club as the greatest to ever play this game. That is as it should be.

Nativenewyorker , 5/25/13 9:24 PM

Wilander won 2 slams on all 3 surfaces. I don't see him being called greater than mcenroe or connors (who have only 1 more slam than him) yet rafa who trails Federer/Sampras is greater than them? LOL! only in a deluded rafabot's world. I guess that means the tennis world is much wiser than rafabots who hide in a well and have no clue what the reality is in the outside world.

Too bad, tennis experts don't use the dumbazz rafabot logic that all slams on one surface can be lumped together. Wilander won 2 AOs on grass but no-one confuses that with the fact that he has 0 wimbledon titles. You wouldn't know that if you talked to a rafabot though.

Another thing, most of tennis world is in unison that Federer is the greatest tennis player. Even rafabots' favorite writer Tignor accepts that.

Fedkovic23 , 5/25/13 9:45 PM

While I respect the opinion that there is no GOAT, If some people enjoy the debate then it is not pointless to have a discussion on opinions.


Conspirator , 5/25/13 9:45 PM

No without a French Open to his name and with less slams than Roger Pete is third.

Wilander also does not have enough slams. You should know this. I am surprised.

Sad will be the day when I have to hyphenate my moniker with my favourite player. I feel sorry for you Fedbot20.


Conspirator , 5/25/13 9:52 PM


Fans might hide when their favorite loses, but atleast other top players don't go absconding when a nobody beats them black and blue on the greatest tennis court (hint for rafafarts : It is not philippe chatrier). Rafa did exactly that.

rafafart crappyrator, get back to doing what nole asked you rafafans to do.

Fedkovic23 , 5/25/13 10:03 PM

Ever notice how Fedbot20, JamesFedererFan and twenty all seem to appear at the same time?


Conspirator , 5/25/13 10:15 PM

People should not be fooled by Fedkovicbot's lame attempts at making an argument. One more time he brings in some irrelevant fact to muck it all up. Wilander has precisely nothing to do with this discussion. It's the same thing he did on Cheryl's blog when he brought up Tiger Woods and Michael Jackson in a discussion about Bill Tilden's pedophilia.

Fedkovicbot just likes to muddy the waters by making a straw man argument. It's all you can do when you don't have the intelligence or knowledge about something to actually have a real discussion.

The vulgar innuendo in the post @ 10:03 PM is just more evidence that when you have nothing of merit to say, you resort to filthy suggestions. We all know what Nole asked the crowd at Madrid to do.

Such a shame when you can't make a real argument, isn't it! Too bad!

Nativenewyorker , 5/25/13 10:23 PM

'If he can return to his 2011 level AND sustain it, I believe he could do it but I don't see that happening. He seems to have regressed..'

If he regressed he sure didn't let it get in the way of another victory over Rafa denying him a title has been literally growing out of his behind for 7 years!
Okay Rafa was still coming back yet it was his 5th final and he was beating most everyone else quite easily on the red stuff.
I don't see why youre so sure that Rafa will always edge the H2H given that the most recent and therefore most relevant results mostly contradict this.
Nor are his overall achievements so far away from him Rafa too.
Although no one will match Rafa's achievements on the clay for a very long time, I suspect, but in the wider context its only a few slams before he'll be breathing down his neck.
So no I don't accept your position, that Nadal is the new goat.
Didn't buy the old one either for the numerous reasons posted here by among others your good self.
Always respectfully of course ;-)
It's perhaps not the best time to talk about this anyway :-/
At the end of the day as per Roger and Rafa if Nadal can't beat Novak anymore then how is he going to be the greatest ever?
Still You might well be right that this is just an ebb and flow situation but after over 2 years with way more ebb than flow, it certainly doesn't feel like it to me...
It doesn't mean Novak is greater than Rafa at the end of the day, it does end the discussion, however, of his goat status.
And yes Rafa is a great RIGHT NOW.
There's no need to speculate on that....

Twinge , 5/26/13 12:14 AM

"The vulgar innuendo in the post @ 10:03 PM is just more evidence that when you have nothing of merit to say, you resort to filthy suggestions. We all know what Nole asked the crowd at Madrid to do."10:23PM

LOL, look who's talking about vulgarity? The one who has on permanent blinders concerning her lackey's, over the top vulgarity, taking things to a highly personal level , by referring to me as an attention whore, not once but many times. Oh, but that's considered humor. And, what about the lackey's many monikers she uses when she wants to bring down Djokovic using the most filthy language, to which the NNYapperbot, turns a blind eye and comes up with a sorry ass statement that "we can't have it both ways". And, let's not forget the comments from the queen of farts, who knows that every Fed fan is a Fedfart, who are stink and smelly, which NNybot does not recognize as filthy but very appropos? here's a tid-bit, you've got to know what a fart smells like from your own personal experience, to be able to say others are smelly farts.

Whenever the sainted preacher chooses to get on her broken-down podium to preach of other posters' so-called vulgaraity, she should first of all ensure that all's squeaky clean on her end. and, that includes her mention of Fed fans as Fedbots. It's nice to have a following of rafabots to back up the saintly one, which allows her to spin a tight web in which she gets encase and cannot get out of due to her stupidity .

Just a few days ago I stated that no argument is ever left on the thread where it took place, but has to be brought forward from thread to thread, coz this is what the NNyapper thrives on. And, she has again run true to form, wherein she stated: "It's the same thing he did on Cheryl's blog when he brought up Tiger Woods and Michael Jackson in a discussion about Bill Tilden's pedophilia." She's closed down the blog with her stupidity just to secure some kudos, due to her inadequacy to understand how other people's behavior could be tied in with Tilden's. it takes a smart person to misunderstand the correlation, which unfortunately, the farcical queen of saints is incapable of doing.
On the point of Fed wagging his finger, no, Nole never did that, he's done worse, shaking his racket at the crowd and telling them to do something much more disgusting. Take care of those blinders, they need cleaning.

scoretracker , 5/26/13 1:13 AM

"The vulgar innuendo in the post @ 10:03 PM is just more evidence that when you have nothing of merit to say, you resort to filthy suggestions. We all know what Nole asked the crowd at Madrid to do.

Such a shame when you can't make a real argument, isn't it! Too bad!"

@Lackey, take note, the boss has spoken.

scoretracker , 5/26/13 1:19 AM

scrotracker please calm down. I don't remember putting Nole down. I respect him immensely. He had the best year ever IMO. I like what his character adds to the game.

twingey, not really two years with Rafa having missed seven months. Good on Nole for beating Rafa in MC but, as you said yourself, wasn't Rafa at his best and certainly not as good as Rafa has shown in Madrid and Rome.

The if Rafa can't beat Nole anymore is just speculation. I can't see that happening. Nole was near unbeatable in 2011. Prior to Rafas injury, he'd beaten Nole three times on clay and either could have won that 2012 AO slugfest with Rafa up a break in the 5th.

As I've said already, Nole could become GOAT but he's got his work cut out for him and other than that amazing mind bending eight months, I don't think he will have the consistency required over the long run. Either way a slight difference in h2h is not the same as 10-20 (and counting).

You're not convinced and that's fine by me. Not trying to convince you or anyone.

BTW, think I've asked you before but, in your opinion only, who do you feel is the greatest player you've witnessed?


Conspirator , 5/26/13 1:54 AM

"Wilander has precisely nothing to do with this discussion."

Did you even read his post. The Fedkovic23 guy made a more than logical argument why your foul-mouthed rafafan's assertment of Nadal being greater than Federer/Sampras is absolute junk. You support such morons and then you wonder why everyone thinks rafa fans have no knowledge of tennis. Do you have a response to his claim that Federer/Sampras are greater than Rafa? Something that your fellow clown disputes.

Fedkovic is ofcourse right. The tennis world in general believes Federer, Sampras, Laver and Borg to be ahead of Nadal. Ofcourse narrow-minded rafa fans will rate the BP greater than all the other 4, but that is not what the majority of tennis fans think.

scoretracker, the right name for her should be new-crapper. It is total filth she posts. She finds other fans and players being abused "funny'? The "nice posters" are spineless people who don't even have the courage to say their favorite is the better player even when he is the no.1 in the world. You just have to look at the support JamesDjokovicFan got above to see the sad state of Djokovic fans around here. You want real Novak fans? go check the other tennis sites, they put the rafatards in their place.

Don't even get me started on her royal stupidity calling other people on vulgarity. She must be either blind or a moron or both to not see what her rafabots are saying and as long as their vulgarity is present, others will respond in kind.

novakisthebest , 5/26/13 5:27 AM

Hey good news for you! A new poster diabroc mouthing gibberish has emerged. The latest entrant to your group (novakisthebest, James, Fedkovic).
Ah, you may not know much math or logic but your group members can sure multiply!

holdserve , 5/26/13 5:41 AM

moldserve, here is something from your fellow rafatard conspit:


you can keep begging for attention, but you ain't getting none from me AW...... please go elsewhere.

novakisthebest , 5/26/13 5:45 AM


Where did you get the word "assortment"? You presume to denigrate my intelligence any chance you get. So what's your excuse for making up words that don't exist?

I will repeat for those who have reading comprehension problems, namely you and your cohorts, Wilander has nothing to do with this discussion! He is not relevant!

It's just funny that these jokers are obviously illiterate and have zero intelligence. They come on here and throw around insults and we are supposed to be impressed! NOT!

Nativenewyorker , 5/26/13 7:01 AM

Oh I don't believe it! The computer corrected the word " ass.ertment" to "assortment" in my last post! Even my computer is smarter than novakisthedumbest"!

Nativenewyorker , 5/26/13 7:04 AM

LOL, the above post on spelling just re-affirms my comments that there are some on here who have so much time on their hands whereby they are able to review each and every comment ensuring that all the t(s) are crossed and i(s) dotted, and which word is valid and/or invalid. What a shame the US SSA does not have a system that screens retirees who are able to do some type of work and make them do it, instead of writing them a check every month for doing zilch, hence the reason they get on forums to harass young people and use the sites as conduits to vent their frustration on how badly a hand they've been dealt in life. Since when is it a forum rule that a poster's comments has to be perfect, viz, grammar and spelling?

Some of us have jobs where we only have enough time to hurriedly write a post without going through so many maneuvers as to draft and spell-check.

and, what about this: "The vulgar innuendo in the post @ 10:03 PM is just more evidence that when you have nothing of merit to say, you resort to filthy suggestions. We all know what Nole asked the crowd at Madrid to do."10:23PM

Why aren't any of you calling for moderator intervention to have jean, the lackey and her tribe of fake posters stop writing their filthy posts? Oh, I get it, her humor is desperately needed to get "us through such bad times". Poor baay. bwahahahha.

I see it has been very carefully avoided, coz it's the lackey who did it, and her comments are what provides humor for the mentally impaired. No normal person has stated that lackey's comments are humorous. Birds of a feather ..... isn't it?

scoretracker , 5/26/13 6:12 PM

'And, let's not forget the comments from the queen of farts, who knows that every Fed fan is a Fedfart, who are stink and smelly, which NNybot does not recognize as filthy but very appropos? here's a tid-bit, you've got to know what a fart smells like from your own personal experience, to be able to say others are smelly farts....'

Oh scoretracker, if only you were this funny all the time.
Instead of whiny.
I might even like you if you were.
Good one about the SSA too.
Do you even know that you're funny?
Probably not!

Twinge , 5/26/13 6:29 PM

Also, did it ever occur to any of you that the new posters found some courage to venture onto this site, which is somewhat of an unchartered territory for them, coz they saw there were some new djoker posters who are unafraid to speak up and defend their guy? Which is not the normal MO for most of the few djoker posters here (speaking up) coz all they do is try to earn kudos and tow the line with the Nadal fans, by being congenial and oh so nice. I can bet a $1,000 that if Fedkovic, Novakisthebest and James, were lauding praises on nadal, they'd be welcome with open arms, instead they are being picked on for spelling mistakes, and using imagined vulgarity, which pales in comparison to that which is deftly overlooked, viz., *attention whore* "scrote", *soap-opera attention whore*, "grow a pair", "bollocks", etc.,

And, even though some know that the HS/DO is using many monikers, coz th clan were the ones who pointed out those irregularities, everyone of the bunch, pretends that they are invisible. And, when I stated that some posters were using my moniker, letters transposed to comment ofn what happenened that day. everyone was silent, except for one who stated: Oh, but "you can't have it both ways.". How very eloquent, NOT..

scoretracker , 5/26/13 6:33 PM

@Twinge: I'm not looking for compliments on this site. I don't know whether you're being facetious or genuinely complimentary, but it doesn't matter to me. FYI, I'm extremely funny, or so I've been told, but how in God's name can anyone be funny on this site, when they have to deal with a legion of ill-tempered and miserable people, who are just out to vent their frustrations on others due to their inward misery? I tried when I initially began posting here, but my humor was met with stone cold silence and condemnation.

As for being whiny, well that's your view. Are you being whiny when you have to defend youjrself? If the answer is NO, then apply that to me, coz I'm only defending myself. Everyone rants about 20 times per day, I write abot 2 to 3 comments incorporating everything at one shot, unlike those who have running commentaries. The rest I'll leave alone. BTW, I'm very loyal, and don't hold grudges, but you'd never know this coz you're too busy putting me down.

scoretracker , 5/26/13 6:42 PM

I wasn't actually being facetious, I was being genuine.
That was hilarious...
I always give credit where credit is due in these things even to 'sworn enemies'
Anyhoo taking a wider perspective, you're not that bad after all. Particularly when one compares you to more recent additions here.
But my goodness you do go on a bit.....

Twinge , 5/26/13 6:53 PM

BTW Scoretracker is very loyal. Really loyal to all her internet friends.

Why is novakisthebest so angry?? Love that he's spilling it all out on this site. Psychotic, but fun to watch the slow car crash of her breakdown.

Scrotracker , 5/26/13 7:09 PM

"the right name for her should be new-crapper."


That woman has too much time on her hands. She used to post as Mindy on the X blog. People there called her crazy b$%^@ Mindy.

Did you read the BP - thasp article I posted on Tennis? It kind of talks about the "knee injury".

JamesDjokovicFan , 5/27/13 6:00 AM


You have the audacity to lecture people on spelling? How about you tell your idol nada to improve his junk-yard english. the guy has spent 12 years on the tour and mumbles like a clown. Novak who has come after him talks much better english. Then again, unless uncle toni teaches him, this guy may not even be able to count to 10.

JamesDjokovicFan , 5/27/13 6:11 AM

JamesDjokovicFan, 5/27/13 6:11 AM,

Yes I can lecture someone like you! So you remember me from good old tennis-x? Since I haven't posted there in over two years, then you must be one of the old timers, one of the losers that gather on that site.

Thanks for making it your business to tell people my name and that I posted on tennis-x. But you are still an idiot!

At least we know where you come from. The people on tennis-x are positively obsessed with this site. It's a site for some of the worst of the worst. Now did you change your screen name so that people don't know who you are on that site?

I can lecture you if I want to do so. At least Rafa has an excuse, because English is not his native language. What's your excuse? In fact, Rafa does better with English than you do!

Nativenewyorker , 5/27/13 7:14 AM

Twit-fag (aka unhinged) being geuine?? lol LMFAO! Scrote, twit-fag, James-fag, crap20, and their fellow tard-fags are still having a meltdown, no surprise. Good for the rest of us to have something to laugh at every now and then I suppose despite them being low quality jokes even by tard standards.

jean , 5/27/13 11:54 AM

Jean says
Blah blah blah
Fume puke blah.
Honestly does anyone takes this frothing at the mouth hound dog seriously?
What a deluded bag lady to be claiming anyone else is unhinged.
You need to take a long look in the mirror you old slag
and hope it doesn't shatter in the process...

Twinge , 5/27/13 12:41 PM

Come to think of it, has jean ever made a post that is actually about tennis? All the fellow seems to do is bash other tennis players and posters on this site......

tj600 , 5/27/13 1:06 PM

Not one tj600
Not even half of one.
And I've been posting here for 2 years!
She's not interested in Tennis,
She's interested in Rafa
She's just another sad lonely fan girl obsessed with a player who would never give her the time of day.
Unless she turned a gun on him.
And she's an ugly old bint to boot.
Both inside and out!

Twinge , 5/27/13 2:50 PM

5/26/13 6:12 PM
'Some of us have jobs where we only have enough time to hurriedly write a post'

Really? You could have fooled me. Since you have such a high powered job and so little time why do you spend your precious free moments writing screeds of gobbledygook on a tennis forum? Five posts totalling roughly 1300 words in the space of 30 minutes. That's an average typing speed of 43wpm which is almost fast enough to get a job in the typing pool.

Furthermore that was 1300 words without a single mention of tennis, let alone on the subject of Federer being beaten by Nadal, Tut tut.

5/26/13 6:33 PM
'lauding praises' - tautological ducky. tut tut.

5/26/13 6:42 PM
Your friends are right. You can be very funny when you blow a gasket. I still chuckle at the memory of you telling Ricky you know more about tennis than he does.


ed251137 , 5/27/13 3:18 PM

He dictates his posts to his secretary.


Conspirator , 5/27/13 3:41 PM

Hey Twinge why are you attacking Jean? It looks like you are on the side of the smelly Many headed Hydra. I don't find you objecting to the trash posted by this creature but you have gone all out to attack Jean who was only counter attacking the foul creature.

holdserve , 5/27/13 4:28 PM

holdserve, how can you seriously be defending jean? Have YOU ever seen it write ANYTHING, ANYTHING AT ALL about the sport of tennis? I have NEVER, EVER, EVER seen it write anything that wasn't a direct insult in any way. Hell, jean even made a comment on a Federer death-threat thread that was edited by Cheryl that gave jean a warning about being banned. NEVER seen anything about tennis from jean, have you?

ts38 , 5/27/13 4:42 PM

Silly me. I completely forgot. Of course he/she has a personal secretary with 140wpm shorthand but not very accurate typing ;-D

ed251137 , 5/27/13 4:44 PM

ts38, 5/27/13 4:42 PM You have hit the nail on the head with respect to this disgraceful poster.

tj600 , 5/27/13 4:48 PM

ts38, what about the hydra (fedkovic, james, seventeen, novakisthebest)? Has anyone seen this creature post anything about tennis? So why don't Twinge and you also object to this creature's posts? Why attack only Jean? She was only counter attacking the creature just like Hawk eye counter attacks rogervic aka tennisnba.

holdserve , 5/27/13 4:50 PM

Well, I'm not as sure as you that they're all the same poster. There are a lot of threads I haven't read so I haven't had time to read every one of their posts. I just know that when any one of them is there flame wars are happening and many times I don't care to read them.

I do find hawkeye annoying, and have called it out before, though I don't think hawkeye ever realized it. It is a little weird that I started seeing that poster again after like a 1 year hiatus immediately after I brought him/her up in passing.

What can I say? Even if they talk about Fed's numbers or how Rafa loses a set or H2H or whatever, they're still technically talking about tennis. Contrast this to jean, who I still have only once in 3+ years have I ever seen a single post remotely analyzing Nadal's game a long time ago, and even still ended that comment with an insult. I've done all I can to answer your question, now can you please answer mine? Have YOU ever seen jean talk tennis?

ts38 , 5/27/13 5:19 PM

Holdserve, I'm not interested in the pointless, endless and increasingly irrelevant Fedal wars!
Not taking either side in that one as frankly I don't care anymore.
Seen it all before.
Looking forward to a retirement (or 2) so we can all get some peace, finally.
It's obvious what you term the hydra is up to, not interested, don't even read the posts now..
I have unfinished business with your Jean.
That goes way back and I intend to follow through this time

Twinge , 5/27/13 5:30 PM

Also, it's killing me that I can't watch the Gulbis match right now bc my internet sucks and can't stream it to my computer.

ts38 , 5/27/13 5:30 PM

Holdserve, you do realize that the fedtards & twit-fag aren't going to admit that they started this, don't you, with the 'mf' language, etc? Are you seriously trying to 'reason' with these fedtards-twit-fag? It doesn't matter what you say, the rats aren't going to accept or admit it. They are here just to attack Rafans. That's why the same rat has created so many different usernames, to try to convince everyone that it's actually a group of rats when it's really only 1 or 2 rats with multiple split 'personalities'.

jean , 5/27/13 5:33 PM

Lol, twit-fag (5/27/13 5:30 PM ) the street mafia gangster laying some threats to "see it through". Bbbbrrrrr I'm so afraid.... LMFAO!!!!!!

jean , 5/27/13 5:36 PM

Then hang around for a change you fat Trollope,
And we will see..

Twinge , 5/27/13 5:38 PM

Jean?? Oh jean?? I see you!!! See, me and the boys were just having a discussion you know anything about the sport of tennis exactly? An enigma like you confuses us, some here think you couldn't tell a racquet from your own asshole, others think you could. Now that you're signed in, could you tell us, what does a tennis ball look like?

ts38 , 5/27/13 5:39 PM

'They are here just to attack Rafans..'

Oh boo hoo everyone's out to get poor little you.
I would be sympathetic if it were true and if you did not only come on here and do precisely the same to others every single time you post.
You need to take a step back and gain some perspective.
Ie recognition that you are a trashy witch.
That would be just for starters of course..

Twinge , 5/27/13 5:51 PM

Wow twinge is a disgusting excuse for a tennis fan. So agressive.

Scrotracker , 5/27/13 6:05 PM

Oh right, I'll be taking advice from twit-fag and t-ass38 of course... lol.

Holdserve, I'm not interested in the pointless, endless and increasingly irrelevant Fedal wars!

LMAO....I rest my case hahahahahahahaha.............

jean , 5/27/13 6:07 PM

You can't LMAO, your ass is far too large for that.
You would have to be laughing for the next century to make any kind of inroads there.
You have been 'posting' here what 5 years, 6 years or whatever and what are the chances that you have never even discussed tennis once in all that time?
Pretty good I wager.
Which shows just how vile you are,
All that rancour day in day out because of Rafa and Roger
Really you should be trapped and destroyed by the RSPCA.
It's would only be for the best.

Twinge , 5/27/13 6:17 PM

Twinge, I don't want to fight with you. I consider you my friend. And I used to enjoy your posts about tennis. I liked your analysis and never considered you anti-Rafa. I thought you were objective. But of late, you have stopped posting about tennis. Instead you are attacking other posters. I miss that old Twinge. Once I consider you my friend I have to accept you warts and all. But I wish you would get out of this phase.

holdserve , 5/27/13 6:26 PM

twinge is so agressive and is active on every thread at the moment. She is bombarding this site with negativity.

Scrotracker , 5/27/13 6:29 PM

^^^Not true,
Just the 2
Are you trolling here 'scrotracker'
Must be given the name
But who are you really?
Don't tell me, I'll work it out although it will mean having to read your posts.
Which no doubt will be an AMAZING experience.
Look sorry Holdserve but jean has been a getting on my nerves barging her way into my arguments and I really cannot stand her.
But I'll dial it down for now.
Until I'm provoked again that is,

Twinge , 5/27/13 6:39 PM

Thanks Twinge. I miss your original analysis spiced with your sarcastic wit!

holdserve , 5/27/13 6:53 PM

Illegible posts there twenty?

You should get a girlfriend so you can free up your other hand for typing, no?


Conspirator , 5/27/13 8:12 PM

Still having "control" problems I see.


Conspirator , 5/27/13 8:57 PM

The hydra has a Texas girlfriend! Move to California. Girls are thin here but hey they are super smart as are most of the guys here. So I guess they might think the Hydra with subzero IQ is a subhuman lab specimen and dissect his brain for their research on what makes IQ so astoundingly low!

holdserve , 5/27/13 9:43 PM

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