Good news about the bio passport. But still players like Fed who train in out of the way places like Dubai might escape out of competition blood tests. Unless ITF changes its policy and makes out of competition blood tests mandatory irrespective of the costs of storing and transporting blood to the nearest authorized lab.

Finally!

ITF stats have been published for 2012:

http://www.itftennis.com/antidoping/statistics/data.aspx

2 012 Year End Rank Name IC OOC
1 Novak Djokovic 7+ 1-3
2 Roger Federer 4-6 1-3
3 Andy Murray 7+ 1-3
4 Rafael Nadal 1-3 7+
5 David Ferrer 7+ 4-6
6 Tomas Berdych 7+ 4-6
7 Juan Martin Del Potro 7+ 1-3
8 Jo-Wilfried Tsonga 7+ 1-3
9 Janko Tipsarevic 7+ 1-3
10 Richard Gasquet 7+ 1-3

As usual it appears that Federer gets away with the least IC and OOC tests - I wonder how. Nadal has the most OOC tests but I suspect this has to do with 7 months absence more than anything else, although I thought there was a clause for testing when a player was ill/injured.

Goodluck to them finding EPO in tests. This is a smart drug for performance enhancement, is short-lived and short-term, only remaining in the body for about 4-5 hours and could be even shorter depending on the amount of sweating and urine. How are they going to find traces by blood testing? Sweat and urine end of EPO in the body. The only substance that remains in the body is marijuana which loves the fat cells. So unless the testing is done for EPO during a match chances are they'll never find it.

scoretracker, aren't the players sometimes tested directly after matches?

@deuce, the following is what I've read on the players being tested from the USTA website. I've heard that they get tested when they lose at the GS, but who knows what's correct, even the players don't know when it will happen because it's random.

do you remember all the brouhaha about being awakened to be tested, and that the players must report their whereabouts at all times?

I have no idea exactly when they are tested while in competition, but I do know that some of them failed to report their daily schedule and missed their random testing.

from the above it appears that they are tested at any time, and it's not absolute that they are tested after their matches just random.

"Tennis players are subject to more performance-enhancing drug tests than any other sport. These random tests can occur at any time and place. They almost always occur during the four majors. I have heard that some top players were tested as often as twelve times during a calendar year."

Yup you can't catch EPO with the kind of testing that the ITF employs, and I don't think it even does much in the way of detecting HGH. This is why you notice all kinds of obscure pharmaceutical chemicals in players who are actually caught and they happen to be lower ranked players who wouldn't have the money to pay people in labs who could design fast wearing PEDs.

With regards to the players being tested, they are tested after matches but only if they LOSE the match. Therefore, anyone is tested only once during a tournament and the winner will be tested once the whole shebang is done.

Players report their whereabouts and can also decide when they are to be tested because they can pick a time slot, allowing them to be a step ahead of the testers - and they are allowed to skip 3 tests as far as I remember. This doesn't fit with whole random testing picture that has been sold to us.


The problem is, if players are tested once at least every tournament something doesn't fit. Take a look at Nadal's and Federer's in competition tests, that figure is way too low when you consider the amount of tournaments they played.

To account for Rafa's exraordinarily high number of ooc, samprallica remembers he was out for 7 months. But to account for the low in competition, samps doesn't think the 7 months accounts for it? This proves something about the poster, right?
Selective, very selective.

^^^ holdserve, Good!!

holdserve, your comment proves that you are nothing more than an imbecile. If the testing regime was what they claimed it was - then why has Rafa been tested 1-3 times? The time period during which he played included several significant tournaments. Notice also that I included Federer in my comment twice but you've chosen to ignore this.

You guys are just Rafa worshippers who will take offence at anything you perceive is wrong.

Should have said anything that is against Rafa is taken offence to. Its almost like he is some infallible being who can do no wrong. Thank goodness for 7 on the trot.

two birds with one stone, not bad.

sampralica, do you ever post anything on TT that's not about Rafa. You hardly talk about the player you support that I'm not even sure who you support. You jump in to gang up on Rafans with Muzzans, Fedfans and Noleans. It seems like it's everyone against Rafa. But Rafa needn't worry, it's evident that he is very popular with the tennis fans outside the blogs, people flock to see him practice, he sold out three SA tours from start to finish. Tournys that used to give their tickets away to disinterested people who didn't even bother to turn up were having to extend their facilities to sell out audiences because of Rafa's presence.

It's all about Rafa isn't it. All over the tennis blogosphere, wherever you go, Rafa is the subject. Without Rafa, tennis blogs will die.


Vamos Rafa

Those SA tournaments would "behave" exactly the same if any of the top players came after the big absence. They would flock to see Fed or Nole. Andy is maybe not yet there. Roger is huge in Asia, so is Nole (China particularly), Rafa, naturally, is in SA. I am sure DelPo would also attract huge crowds there. And funs flock to see all of them play. Let's not get selfish and think that only the player we root for is a God given specimen.

Danica to imply that Djokovic is anywhere NEAR the same level of fan support worldwide is laughable. Djokovic and Murray have similar sized followings. Nadal and Federer are in a league of their own. There is no way south american tournaments would have cared about djokovic playing anywhere close to how much they cared that Nadal did. And for the record I highly doubt that djokovic or Murray will ever come close to the kind of tennis fandom that follows Nadal and Federer around, they both have class (djokovic does not), they both have looks (djokovic does not), they both have maturity and a magical superiority and respect from other players (djokovic does not).

And by the way, to imply that djokovic has a particular following in china is flat out MENTAL. Nadal + Fed are almost held as mythical legends in Asia, djokovic is a very distant third in support out there.

Doesn't Justin Bieber have a substantial fan following around the world? Wasn't Agassi more popular than Sampras. Fan following doesn't really matter and tennistalk illustrates why. If Novak was of some other nationality and was originally sponsored by Nike you'd see a substantial difference.

I'll look at the tennis and look back on what's been said and done when they retire. As for class, looks and "magical superiority" (whatever the heck that is) - the statement in itself is laughable.

No danica, there is only one Rafa and only one King of Clay. They might turn up to see a top player in an exho for a couple of hours but not for a whole week over three tournaments in three countries.

Those SA countries had been after Rafa for years I don't think they've ever asked Djokovic to go and play there.

samprallica, good of you to butt in, for no apparent reason as usual. I dont care if you are more concerned with the tennis. danica, apparently cares about fan followings and so I was addressing her.

Spouting an irrelavant "what if'" just sums up your apparent lack of an ability to concisely present your point instead of satisfying some insecure and helpless attempt to undermine and attack other posters. You write that my statement is "laughable" when it is actually your sad, incessant, unprovoked, bias ridden idiocy that unfortunately populates this forum that is truly hilarious.

P.S: If you dont understand the english words "magical superiority" then maybe you should go back to school you ill educated, linguistic spastic. LOL

Djokovic was unable to get sponsors for the Serbia Open and sponsors were tripping each other up to go to SA because of the presence of Rafa.

Sport is entertainment, it matters that the players have a following because the tournament directors have to put bums on seats. Sponsors will not sponsor an event if they don't have players with a massive following to attract viewers that's why TV decides the schedules because they want the most for their money.

Your statements on class, looks and magical superiority were biased in themselves.

"If you dont understand the english words "magical superiority" then maybe you should go back to school you ill educated, linguistic spastic" - not going back to indoctrination camp sorry. Maybe that's the reason I'm unable to perceive class like you are.

Awful rebuttal. Your posts are a waste of space, high minded and you are seemingly constantly irritated by everything others post on tennistalk. What a loser...

player blood passport thread diverts in to discussion who is more popular. and who is behind it? cerrie, of course :lol:

:rooms for rent:

rfzr only knows how to add fuel to fire!

I do agree with holdserve, that it seems that samprallica always pick on Rafa. Looking at the number of tests done on the players: Nole 7+ and 1-3; Rafa 1-3 and 7+, so basically they're being tested about the same number of times; Nole more during competition and Rafa more OOC, because Rafa only played for half a season. Fed on the other hand, was tested fewer times than the normal 7+ times during competition even when he played the full season. So, why lump Rafa with Fed, when Rafa tested as much as the others the whole season??

PS. Talking about popularity of the players, just look at how much both Fed and Rafa are paid for exhos and appearance fees and you'll see who among the players are the popular ones.

"rfzr only knows how to add fuel to fire! "

genuinely false statement as usual.

Sorry, Willmw, the points you brought up against Djokovic are purely your own and biased big time. I don't agree on any of them. I am not going to elaborate simply because I don't care what anyone thinks.

Serbia Open had problems for different reasons (unrelated to tennis and more to do with political scene) even though the first installment was voted the best ATP 250 on tour. It was also put in a very though part of the calendar when most players would want to rest in preparation for masters on clay and RG.

And just for the record: I couldn't care less about the number of fans Nole has. Fan following is not important to me, but it obviously is for Nadline. For all I care, I could be the only one following N. And I am so not an idol worshiper like Nadline, not a fan really, just a supporter. I don't read everything that's written about Novak nor do I read everything he said, nor do I care much where he lives and goes, I don't calculate his points, I don't even look at the draws and I certainly don't remember a lot about a lot of his matches. I just like his persona, the fresh air he brought into tennis and sure, I like his game. Fan following is influenced by a lot of things that have nothing to do with players themselves, and Samprallica mentioned some very valid. The ATP list is all that matters to me. It doesn't lie and I am liking what I'm seeing :)).

As usual?? Now your behavior is as usual!

"Willmw, the points you brought up against Djokovic are purely your own"

danica, 3/9/13 1:05 AM

Well obviously, I made them. You make no sense.

What the stats on testing shows that not enough testing is being done. If, as the article I read states (part of which I posted above) that the players are tested at all GS tournaments, which is 4, then being tested 7 times in competition, means that only on 3 other occasions they were tested for the entire season while competing. Thus, they played around 15 tournaments or so without being tested since most of them play between 19-22 tournaments, plus DC. Hence, whichever way you look at it, it's obvious the testing is a big joke. How will they ever catch the crooks?

Additionally, the blood passport, is only going to reflect their blood chemistry as it is at the time of their being tested. Therefore, if an athlete who is using banned substances who hasn't been caught, then his blood panel would only reflect his present altered state of blood chemistry as being normal. This willl make it even more difficult for those illegal/banned substances to be detected at all subsequent testings as the athlete's blood chemistry has already been changed, and all future tests will reflect those changes as being normal for that athlete, when a comparison is done between first test and present test. In some cases, if the altered state is acceptable as normal for those athletes, then if they were clean up their act, between the two tests, it could then draw more suspicion to them, due to those inconsistencies.

Yes, Willmw, you made them but in a such a way as if they were agreed upon by everyone and thus, universal truth. Obviously, they are not. Just that.

what is the correct answer:

a) player is more popular

b) player is the #1

c) nadline is not obsessed with nadal

?

scoretracker , 3/9/13 2:00 AM

Thank you!

"So, why lump Rafa with Fed, when Rafa tested as much as the others the whole season??"

Because they are the standout examples of lack of in-competition testing. 7+ could be any value greater than 7 so I can't really that out. Nadal was tested a maximum of 3 times in 7 months, Federer a maximum of 6 in a whole year. If you think this is an anti-doping effort that works, then you are beyond help.

I'm not picking on Rafa or anyone here, just illustrating how the scheme has been insufficient thus far. If only you would stop letting your blind adulation for Rafa get in the way of everything I say, it might help you.

I don't see any Federer fans getting worked up when I pointed out how he was tested insufficiently.

samprallica has no logic and has the gall to call me imbecile. Everyone can see who is the imbecile in this argument. How can Federer be compared with Rafa when Rafa played only half a season?
As for scoretracker's point, for reasons best known to dear ITF, they are under no obligation from 2011 to test even the semi finalists and finalists. Was this rule change done so they would no longer need to test the man who controls ATP and ITF i.e. Federer for whom schedules and draws are rigged? So conceivably this rule change was done for him as he has benefited maximum from the discretion given to ITF as can be seen from the fewer tests performed on him.
As Samps would say, hmmmm!

Another foolish argument raised by samps is that Fed fans did not get worked up when samps pointed out that Fed was tested insufficiently. How can Fed fans get riled when it is not samprallica's opinion but fact that Fed was tested insufficiently?

Urine test might be of use in testing for muscle building steroids but neither the blood nor urine tests are of any use in detecting HGH and as scoretracker pointed out, of little use if not tested within a few hours of doping with EPO.
I am not sure how the bio passport works but I am sure in some way it deters cheaters because the performance of top cyclists dropped on mountainous routes after it was introduced.

^^ I have not disagreed with any of this. Are you telling me that a maximum of 3 tests is sufficient to catch anyone playing several major tournaments over six months?

The blood passport is used to detect changes in blood profile that would then lead to suspicion. A smart doper will know to schedule his doping regime so as not to get aught with suspicious traces in his blood when the tests are taken but will continue his regime so that no huge changes are seen in his blood profile over time.

The only thing I can see deterring a cheat is the potential of facing multiple blood tests. Anyone brave enough to take a calculated risk will pull it off.

No one is telling you anything samps. You are the one making untenable arguments. You are avoiding the point that Fed and Rafa cannot be compared with respect to their in competition tests.
Federer played 16 tournaments last year and in 13 of them he was at least a semifinalist.
Rafa played 9 and in only 6 was he at least a semi finalist.
In other words Fed should have had at least twice the number of in competition tests as Rafa did.

You should compare Fed with those who played the full season and you can see he is the only one tested insufficiently. Hmmmm!

Fed at the age of 31 won Wimbledon and also reached no. 1 ranking. This was a case for subjecting him to more tests than usual. But ITF did the reverse. I wonder why? hmmmm!
Absolutely shameful, the way ATP and ITF are bending over backwards to favor Fed.
In addition to giving the figures for number of tests, ITF should indicate which tournaments they were tested in.
Anyway, even now the whole world can see that Federer is not tested often either in competition or out of competition.

@ scoretracker
It's kinda strange, if what you have read is correct, to "only test the loser," seems counter-intuitive to me. In order to test for EPO looks as if they'd have to seriously disrupt matches which wouldn't go down too well with punters or players.

I too doubt very much that Andy/Nole will ever get the world wide fan base of Rog/Raf but, like danica, who cares? In fact would quite like to be Andy's only fan, might get extra special treatment.....;)

@Samprallica, you're wlcome.

@deuce, yes, why test the loser? It's the winner who should be tested.

My mom always says the smarter the government, the wiser the population.

The population is more diverse than the governing authorities who make the rules, as in the Borg collective, a higher mind.

So sampralica, may I ask, 7 in competition tests, are they enough for the whole year?? Why only pick on Nadal for the six months, or Fed with 4-6 for the whole year, but not the rest with only 1-2 tests more? According to you, the tests done were insufficient, so why not said all of them were insufficiently tested? Again, you left out Nole but focused on Nadal.

Why are we Rafa fans more sensitive, well I believe I'd mentioned before, that we're sick of all those accusations, or suspicions, about Rafa and doping. I believe that's not worshipping, but merely expressing our unhappiness about Rafa's name being brought up time and again where doping and testing are concerned.

Also why do they say 7+ but not 8+ or 9 +? Meaning most likely they're all not tested anything more than 10 times a year! Rafa was tested 1-3 times in competition, but the testing authorities won't know that he would have gone for a six months injury break. Who knows during the first half of the season, were the rest of the players being tested 1-3 times too, like Rafa.

Hopefully samprallica, you do understand where we're coming from. We just hope that Rafa is not being singled out where doping is concerned. Peace.

As a "neutral" on this I would agree with lucky, Rafa is singled out more than the other players with allegations of drug abuse. It does explain why his fans are pretty sensitive on this issue.
However, he is not completely alone, Nole and his famous pod has been placed under the microscope and now Andy has bulked up a bit the accusing finger has been pointed at him too.
Unfortunately athletes do get caught doping, so I guess we have to live with this general feeling of suspicion.

Thanks deuce.

The only one the media has eft alone is Federer despite his sudden increase in stamina in 2003, his sudden resurgence in 2012. And virtually no doping tests for him. The whole setup stinks.
As a mater of fact Rafa is the least likely to be doping because ITF not only has tests for muscle building steroids, it tests him more times.
And we know ITF has no tests for HGH, unreliable tests for blood doping and little or no tests on someone...

We all agree that more testing needs to be done, so let's stop fighting over who was tested more then who etc, everyone needs to be tested more! I also think Rafa gets more suspicion because of his physique and endurance based style of play. People, probably unfairly, link these things with doping. Federers slim physique and attacking relatively low endurance style of play, is not the type of thing people usually associate with doping.

We all know how muscular Armstrong is, don't we.

Haha, so defensive Nadline! His endurance was pretty good, not a nice man though.

we all know that dr. Funetes had few tennis players as his clients. we know that the judge told him he wasn't under obligation to reveal their names, don't we.

dr. Fuentes.

Whether you're muscular or not, to be able to play for four five hours on consecutive days need lots of stamina and endurance. It's a mistake to say that Rafa being the only one who engages in long matches. Should we look at Fed's or Nole's five sets records; how many times they're engaged in long matches?

Now Dr Fuentes with his tennis clients, who said his tennis clients are only Spanish? Also, Rafa is not the only famous Spanish tennis player; they caught Dr Fuentes in 2006, was Rafa that popular yet? There're other more famous and established Spanish names than Rafa's back then. Why are people so sure Rafa is one of them?

After this Fuentes guy got caught, did we see Rafa's performance being affected in any way? If he's guilty, do you think he's still stupid enough to carry on doping after Fuentes case? In fact Rafa was getting better and better as he mature as a player, and his fitness and stamina have remained at about the same level throughout his career. I don't see a sudden surge in his fitness level during his career.

And we all know don't we that Armstrong was getting his doping support from a Swiss firm, that HGH is freely available in Dubai in anti aging clinics?
Also that " low endrance" Federer has incredible stamina? For those delusional Fed fans that claim Fed has low endurance they should actually watch his matches live ( not on TV but by actually attending matches). Besides it is well known that Fed is able to play a full season and this is put down by above mentioned delusional fans to his fluid low endurance style which to anyone who knows anything about physical exertions is just plain bull. The ballet dancers with their incredible fluidity require enormous conditioning and practice to execute those apparently "low endurance" moves.
The fact is dear Fed is even more suspect than Rafa thanks to his incredible stamina, low injuries, fast recoveries and ability to play a full season.
Fed fans have been trying to make everyone believe that only muscle building steroids are in use and not blood doping or HGH.

You're both being very defensive! I think a case could be made for any player doping, including Fed. I was just explaining why Nadal is targeted more often then others. Federer is not a ballet dancer, seems a bit random of a comment to me. Yes Federer has got fantastic endurance, but his game is less endurance based then the likes of Nadal, Djokovic etc.

Also, Rafa did say that the judge should've demanded for the names to be disclosed. I'm sure he wants his reputation to be cleared from all these suspicions. Again, why are people suspecting anyone when they don't even have proof of any wrong doings? It's better not to believe in rumors or help to spread rumors when one can't even confirm any truth in it.

luckystar makes a good point. Did Dr Fuentes say only Spanish tennis stars were his clients?
Also Rafa did not train under the tennis establishment but in Majorca with his uncle and was in his teens when Dr Fuentes was caught. It is quite a stretch imagining that Rafa was his client.
Federer was then 24, he is in the age group which was likely benefiting from the expertize of Dr Fuentes. I don't think tennis stars take advice or train only in their home country. So if we are accusing players without proof, Fed fans should know that their idol is more suspect.

Because of the amount of athletes caught doping. It's their fault this is happening. I agree with Rafa, name and shaming is an effective method, especially stopping people who have been caught, doing it again.

Also, you keep saying Federer is suspect, yet complain about people saying the same about Nadal, bit of a double standard?

If rbennett cannot see the connection between ballet and Fed, he is even more delusional than I had given him credit for.
rbennett agrees Fed has fantastic endurance but says his game is based on low endurance style. So what makes Fed's game seem low endurance? His fluidity. And the appearance of fluidity requires enormous stamina. Get it?
Besides what according to delusionals accounts for Fed's playing the full season in 2010, 2011 and especially 2012, winning a slam, reaching no. 1, winning many titles etc?

Why are you calling me delusional? Am I insulting you?
Yes both Fed's style and ballet are fluid, but the type of endurance required is very different. His game style is low endurance as it is an attacking, short points game, which requires lower endurance then Nadals style, does it not?
Again, you shouldn't complain about accusations about Nadal then make your own at Federer, that is a double standard.

The best form of defense is attack. Hit them where it hurts. If Fed fans are going to make a case for accusing Rafa, I can make a stronger case for accusing Fed. So if it hurts them, let them remember that the Fed-biased media and the delusional Fed fans have been hurting Rafa and Rafans for years with outright accusations and innuendoes. Time to set the record straight and take the fight into the enemy's camp.
If Fed fans lay off Rafa, we can discuss tennis and be friends.

That approach will just cause more problems. Your use of words like 'war' and 'enemy' is worrying, this is just tennis at the end of the day maan. Both sides attack each other, lets stop accusing each other and admit both are wrong. The inly difference at the end of the day is being a fan of different tennis players!

DAY OF SHAME: Investigation lifts the lid on drug use in Aussie sport
Feb. 7, 2013, 10:58 a.m.

Thorpe?s incredible record attracted several drug accusations, the most notable coming in a French newspaper that claimed he had returned an abnormal drug test result. The accusations for disproved and Thorpe remains a fierce anti-drug campaigner.

The former Australian Socceroos goalkeeper failed a drugs test in 2002. He was sacked by Chelsea and banned from football for nine months.

The Olympic silver medal canoeist was banned for 15 months after testing positive to steroids. After retiring, Baggaley was later jailed after pleading guilty to manufacturing 1,509 ecstasy tablets.

Three-time silver medallist Boyle was denied a gold medal in the 200m at the 1972 Munich Olympics when defeated by an East German athlete later shown to have participated in a doping program.

The premiership star spent a large part of his career at West Coast Eagles battling a drug addiction. He was banned for one year for bringing the game into disrepute but later played on at Richmond. Photo: Getty Images
Warnie claimed his mum was just trying to help slim him down, but he was nonetheless banned from organised cricket for one year for using a diuretic.

White and Hodge, former Australian road cyclists, were exposed as drug cheats in the fallout of the Lance Armstrong scandal of 2012.

A year-long government investigation has found widespread use of banned drugs in Australian professional sport and links with organised crime.

The Australian Crime Commission released the findings of a 12-month investigation into the integrity of Australian sport and the relationship between professional sporting bodies, prohibited substances and organised crime.

It said the links may have resulted in match-fixing and fraudulent manipulation of betting markets - and it was hopeful criminal charges would be laid.
The key findings of the investigation identified widespread use of prohibited substances including peptides, hormones and illicit drugs in professional sport.
It said that in some cases players were being administered with substances that have not yet been approved for human use.

The ACC also identified organised crime identities and groups that were involved in the distribution of PIEDS (Performance and Image Enhancing Drugs), to athletes and professional sports stars.

The ACC report noted increasing evidence of personal relationships of concern between professional athletes and organised criminal identities and groups.
??The ACC has found that professional sport in Australia is highly vulnerable to infiltration by organised crime. Multiple athletes from a number of clubs in major Australian sporting codes are suspected of currently using or having used peptides,?? Justice Minister Jason Clare said in a statement.

"The findings are shocking and will disgust Australian sports fans," he said.
"It's cheating...but it's worse than that. It's cheating with the help of criminals.''

http://www.theguardian.com.au/story/1285485/day-of-sha me-investigation-lifts-the-lid-on-drug-use-in-aussie-sport/

^^^Funny how everyone is turning a blind eye because it's Australia not Spain.