nobody beats rafa when he is 100%.

vamos.

Murray is stating the obvious. And the only things he could say, really. Good answers from Andy as usual. And no cause for a blog, as usual :-).

Not so fast. I believe that a 110% Rafa would beat a 100% Rafa.

true, but the points would still go to the same person.

vamos.

Murray is only saying what Rafa himself has said.

You make a strong point rfzr. I can't argue with that!

#Touche

A 75% Rafa can beat a 100% Murray. LOL

the one time king of clay? past tense? seriously

Hey pennster, you're mellowing ... Last year it woyld have been 50% ... and without the 'lol' - ha, ha!
You're movin' in the right direction, bud ;)

So what % was Rafa when Andy served him a bagel the last time they met?

< 100 %

^ yep, that's what it looked like to me.

Oh Racquet, i think you just might be a Muzzan,
A rare species around here to be sure.
Our ranks are slim (to say the least) but sometimes quality is more important than quantity ;)
Rafans should be realistic not set themselves up for a fall and hope for a full return on the clay for their player.
The hard courts (at least till after the summer) will not be anything to write home about.

Sure Rafa was not 100% when Andy bagled him in 2011 in Tokyo. Rafa said he simply couldn't be bothered to play at that level whilst Muzz was killing himslef to win because he had something to prove.

^^ lol More federer like revisionism from a Nadal fan.
Andy was certainly NOT killing himself on an easy 3 set hard courter.
It was like taking candy from a baby!
And I somehow doubt Rafa couldnt be bothered enough so he would just let Murray bagel him im a final!
Fact; Andy was flawless in the last 2 sets of that final and made no mistakes whatsoever.
And THAT is basically what Rafa actually said on the court afterwards (having more class than many of his fans).
:)

Also when one thinks about it & taking that example into account, Rafa will really have to up his game sharpish. IW and Miami loom over everything until the sanctuary of the real clay court season in Europe. If he is not careful it will be akin to the `Clockwork Orange` when Alex first comes back from aversion therapy, lol!

There is no such thing as an easy 3 sets in a best of 3 sets.

^^Oh Sorry, that's right.
It was an EASY 2 sets
Very easy ;)

Nadline -
One of rafa's most admirable qualities and why I respect him so much is because he ALWAYS gives his best in EVERY match.
He may sometimes lose cos he's carrying an injury, but never because he's not trying his best.

Alex,
Rafa never loses unless he is injured, you should know that by now.

Everybody knows Rafa is not at 100% after the US Open. That's when he is the most vulnerable. So are many other top players except Fed who gets easy draws and convenient schedules in the grand slams to ensure his body doesn't get strained (and of course he doesn't play Davis Cup).
So all kinds of weird results are seen post US Open. It is tennis' silly season.
No conclusion can therefore be drawn by Muzza's easy defeat of Rafa. . Or somebody's defeat of Rafa at Bangkok. Or Jerzy's defeat of Muzza for that matter. Media morons and excitable fans made much of that win but I am reserving judgment till Jerzy does well before the silly season.

please do not talk about Jerzy now otherwise we will go off thread. I mentioned it only as an example of results during silly season.

Then there was the pre-US Open 6-4 6-3 win at Toronto (followed by a straight sets win over Federer in the final). The point here isn't to quibble with the decent Rafa fans, it's to show that pennster talks out of his rear end.

"No conclusion can therefore be drawn by Muzza's easy defeat of Rafa..."

No further conclusions other than he won easily as it was only a 500 tourny after all. But Nadline was getting on my nerves with her fedfan like excuses.

Also not at 100% to me means not well or injured not playing at 100%.
But it can mean both.

No, holdserve, rafans won't go on and on about Jerzy or Donald Young or Tipsa etc. because we are not that petty. We know that no player can win all the matches they play.

Go on about it if you so wish but Andy Murray is NOT a jerzy, donald young or rosol or anything like that!
But one thing is certain Nagline;
You WILL go on,
and on,
and on,
and on
ETC

^^^And your point is?

AND ON
AND ON
AND ON

It's OK Twinge, I'm not that interested in talking about Andy, I've got more interesting people to talk about.

oooo let me guess Nags

Gandhi?
Richard the 3rd?
nononono i got it!!
Obama,
yeah, right?

For fear of being called a twit or, worse yet, a Fed fan, can someone tell me for the love of all that is holy, how Dodig beat Rafa in Montreal in 2011??? What was Rafa that day...2%????

I had tickets to see Rafa the very next day!

#WasNotHappy
#WTF
#HumbleBrag

Oh, and before Ricky beats me to it, no, it wasn't a virus.

#PreemptiveStrike

@Conspirator , 2/6/13 5:53 PM

Rafa said he had lost his passion for the game. He said it felt like he\d been on tour for a 100 years.

nadline, that's the true, no?

Conspirator, 2/6/13 5:53 PM,

I remember that match. As I recall, Rafa was just coming back from that foot injury he suffered at Wimbledon. He only had a few days of practice before showing up at Montreal.

It's not an excuse, just a fact that Rafa simply had almost zero preparation after recovering from his injury. Dodig also played very well and took advantage of Rafa's spotty form and rusty game.

As I recall, things didn't get much better at Cincy. Remember how Rafa burned his fingers at some sushi restaurant picking up a hot plate? So there he was with his fingers taped, trying to play and get into decent form on the lightning fast courts at Cincy that have never been well suited to his game. Remember that awful match with Verdasco? It was like neither guy could find a way to win that match.

I believe that Rafa lost to Fish in the quarterfinals. After that long three set match with Verdasco, he insisted on playing doubles. Fish played well and took advantage of a sub-par Rafa to get the win.

After seeing Rafa's performances in both of these warmup tournaments, no one was giving him much of a chance at the USO. But we all know that he played himself into good form and got to the final, only to lose again to Nole.

Yes that's a tough thing about an individual sport like tennis compared to a team sport. In tennis, you can spend a lot of time and money on a tournament with no guarantee of seeing your favourite player.

Rafa playing HORRIBLE tennis right now

^^^^

Were you expecting a master class after seven months? He played the way I would expect him to play after having been out for so long. He has to start somewhere. This is the beginning of the road back. At least he's now on the court actually playing.

Rafa never 100% fit after USO?
Wont make much of a difference even if he is. There are many players who like their chances against him on the indoor h/c unlike when they face him on clay or outdoor h/c.
Btw, Rafa hasnt been that brilliant once Wimby ends. His results b/w Wimby and USO are not even good by his standards. He has been able to perform great at the USO coz it's a best of 5.
And btw, were Nole's last years winning effort at Shanghai and WTF absurd and strange? Even post USO, it's still one of the top 4 guys who go on to win the titles.

abhirf, you are a Fed fan so you are excused your weakness in logic.

Holdserve, you are the most delusional tennis fan on this forum. So I will excuse you for your weakness in logic. ;)
#hold'THE DELUSIONAL'serve

lol. Nadal and Nadals fan always make excuse. as@holed serve.

greatest Murrays hints.

We Rafa fans never make excuses. It is a known fact that Rafa has been carrying an injury since the very beginning of his wonderful career. If Rafa was injury free, distrubution of trophies would be different.
And Murray should thank god that Rafa was not around whilst USO. Think about the final down under, he played so tentatively and cowardly. Do you think this play is enough for an fired up Djokovic or desirous Nadal? Never...

^^^ agree with you. Murray was lucky too avoid Fed and Rafa for his 1st slam win. The wind factor aided him in his wins over Berdych and Nole. Anyways, now that he has a slam under his belt, let's see how he now fares up against Rafa.

"There are many players who like their chances against him on the indoor h/c unlike when they face him on clay or outdoor h/c."


Including Federer.

"And Murray should thank god that Rafa was not around whilst USO. Think about the final down under, he played so tentatively and cowardly. Do you think this play is enough for an fired up Djokovic or desirous Nadal? Never..."

Blah Blah Blah.
Yeah?
Well we will see how beats who on HC more often now Andy has matured & can play more freely won't we?
As for Andy being tentative he was (now pay attention!) carrying hamstring and foot problems which clearly to anyone with a pair of eyes & some sense at least affected his performance later in the match.
A fully fit Andy could have won that match, a fully fit Rafa?
Well, lets see him do it first ;)
Oh and Rafa and Novak have retired when injured or carrying problems so dont give me it. If you have a injury it will affect your performance. End of.

"Murray was lucky too avoid Fed and Rafa for his 1st slam win"

And Roger federer was lucky to not meet ANYBODY of note for his first 8 slam wins!!!!!!
I'd say even more than that as he had an immature Andy Murray to bully too.
Oh and a developing Rafa on grass to hang on against. Speaking of which..
Just WHO did Rafa actually beat in the final for his first slam?
At least Novak beat Tsonga for his first ;)

Twinge, never mind who Rafa beat for his first slam title, he actually beat Roger in the SF. If he had met Roger in the final he would have beaten him, but they were on the same side of the draw.

And Murray should thank god that Rafa was not around whilst USO. Think about the final down under, he played so tentatively and cowardly. Do you think this play is enough for an fired up Djokovic or desirous Nadal? Never...
arwen , 2/8/13 8:56 AM


Totally agree.

^^I knew you were going to say that ofcourse, but lets face it Nadals role as CCG is not under dispute as is his dominance over federer on clay (or anywhere).
I just find the smug reflected arrogance of fedal fans off putting.
Andy beat the world number one in his FIRST SLAM FINAL. A player considerably better than fedal at the moment (and probably now always).
Andy cant cut a break, but in my view he could have won AO had all things being equal. Bad luck.
But something he won't always have to tolerate I expect ;)

"Totally agree"

Now there's a surprise!
We. Will. See. how this all plays out now wont we?
Okay Desperate Housewife?
;)

Andy cant cut a break, but in my view he could have won AO had all things being equal. Bad luck

What inequality as per you made the difference in AO final?

Oh come on Fedexal, the blisters and hamstring thing would have certainly impacted upon his performance. At this level, even a 1% effect can make the difference. Im not saying he would have won it if these problems were not there but it would have made for a much more competitve final at the least.

Oh come on Twinge. Every player can't be 100% fit all the time. Nole won against Rafa after being so tired after last year marathon against Andy. Rafa won against Fed in 2009 in trying conditions . And thats why Andy said that those things did not impact the result .

Oh Please! lol
Novak was tired (as was Nadal in 09) but he was not in any way injured against Nadal.
Maybe we saw a different match but the one I saw Murray's level DIVED in the last 2 sets.
And the foot was clearly a factor for his movement which allowed Novak to raise his game without opposition.
I think you know, or should do at least, by now that these players rely heavily on their movement. Or maybe you thought Novak was simply unbelievable?
I however disagree.
And ofcourse Andy would never have been as classless as to use an excuse of an injury, he leaves that stuff to federer.
Who makes up for everyone in that respect.

Guess
Who is the smartest player of all time?

murray has no one but himself to blame for that aussie open final. It's quite obvious that he picked up his blisters and other stuff during that bruising semifinal with federer(he seemed fit prior to that in the tourney) but if he had finished off federer in say 4 sets(which he probably should have done) he would probably have been in better shape for the final and may have won it. A shame really.

Actually he should have done it in 3, he outplayed Roger for almost all of that set. bar the TB's.
You're correct ofcourse but nerves are still a feature of this players game, & it was the first time he had beaten Roger in a slam who had gone on and on about him never doing it before. So it was a huge moment. One can hope (& expect) he will be more relaxed now when he meets him going on.

Yes murray played really well through out the set but u have to be very much careful against roger in TB...fedex is just like that he always keeps his serve and doesn't push too much for breaking of opponent's serve..against top players he always push it to TB and from there he takes control...

I think muzza should take this quality from fedex just don't spend too much energy, just try to break opponent's serve when opponent is serving to stay in the set..

As far as murray's 1st slam is considered i have to give more credit as he beat the best in the business...fedal was history at least on hard courts :)

Twinge, as you admitted yourself, Muzza's nervousness against Fed or Rafa at USO might have costed him his title. Even a Fed who was off his game managed to take off the contest in a decider.
And like you saw a different match at AO final (Andy's movement etc etc), I too saw a different match at USO SF. The wind was clearly affecting Berdych's game. He was not able to get a hold of his serve or groundies. Same was the problem for Nole in the final during 1st set. And Nole's movements were quite restricted in the crucial 5th set.
Nothing taking away from Andy, but it did looked like everything falling in place for him during the USO. But yes, he did beat the best to get the title :)
So now let's see how he fares up this year.

I don't recollect Novaks movement being restricted in the fifth (although he took that MTO) neither of them played at their best at the same time consistently really, & both players used the wind to their advantage (too bad if berdych can't do that it is an outdoors sport afterall), but either way i will take it for a first one.
He will be playing better and better now as his maturity & confidence starts to take hold. Its still early days for Andy's slam career unlike others who are basically through.
One thing i am certain about, he can play a lot better than we have seen in key moments & it will be important for tennis that he can execute on this in the future.
Yes let's see how high he can fly.

chenna, Roger can afford to do that because his serve is amongst the best in the business. Muzza's serve is not that reliable and combined with Fed's being so good, it means he has to keep looking for opportunities to break Fed's serve in every game whenever he can instead of waiting till the opponent is serving to stay in the set. You cannot choose when to break Fed. You have to keep trying to increase chances of breaking him especially when you aren't certain that your serve will not let you down.
One of the biggest assets of Fed's game is his serve which lets him shorten points, not lose serve and focus on breaking the opponent's serve. Just because it isn't like Isner's doesn't mean it isn't the best in the business. It is probably the best. Definitely one of the best. It is amazing how Rafa has won so much without a great serve.

I would say that Andy's first serve to me is the one that is going places.
Granted the 2nd serve is still pitiful but the 1st is increasingly reliable now, almost always over 60%. Its more powerful than the other top 4 (in the 130's instead of the 120's) also and with more aces.
If he could sort out his 2nd serve, his game would improve by another 5% at least. But alas it has yet to be rectified.

Holdserve, yeah murray needs to improve his 1st serve %, i think he got the biggest 1st serve of the top 4, i think when his 1st serve is working it's very tough to beat him..

Twinge, Yeah. like I pointed out on another thread before AO final, Muzz needed to be more agrressive and consistent on the 2nd serve against Nole. That 2nd serve has costed him close and important matches recently.
I have really taken a liking of Nole's serve. He has shown drastical improvement in his 1st as well 2nd serve. Just look at the way he served at the AO, making life of his opponents more difficult. His serve is highly underrated aspect of his game (as of now) that has been overhauled by his groundgame.

holdserve, yup. Fed's serve is definitely the best in the business. Rather than the pace, he relies a lot more on the accuracy of his serve. Even his 2nd serves are full of varieties and aggression making it tough for his opponents even when his 1st serves are not firing.