"The London Games gold medalist" - Nice!

I would love Nole to win gold in Rio. I hope he can do it. That would make Rafa, Muzz and Nole all singles gold medalists, hopefully while they're all still on tour. That would be special.

Yes, a massive congratulations to Murray. He has always has the talent and its just great to see that talent finally rewarded with a major trophy. Agreed with earlier comments that the reaction over in the UK has somewhat been subdued, particularly for a 1st grand slam winner in like 78 years since Fred Perry. I think it's mainly down to the match taking place at twilight hours over here , so the match didn't get the full coverage that say the Wimbledon final did. A Murray win at SW19 would've sent the euphoria into full overdrive particularly in Olympics year.

Part of its is also due to Murray's own persona, which still lacks the charisma or charm offensive of Nadal or Federer. But that really isn't a big concern for him.

What's really more interesting now is the possible ramifications of this win. Will we now see Murray become a multiple slam winner and eventual No1? Few things to consider first..

Murray has the luck of the draw and tour this time, not having to face either Rafa or Roger as past US Open results have proven.

A 1st major win guarantees nothing. Delpo looked even more ominous after his US Open win, but unfortunate long term injury took all the momentum away from his ascendancy , so you never know what will happen.

Despite a typical fightback, Djokovic clearly wasn't at his optimal level, unable to mentally cope with the conditions. 2012 has confirmed that 2011 was a freakish one off year. Yes the Djokoivc 2.0 is still operational, but now seems to be fading back to some regular level of normality. Can he get back to that leevel next year, its' very doubtful.

Federer is still a major threat and as Wimbledon proved, has the upper hand over Murray in slams, Although we'll never know for sure , it;s likely Fed would've beaten Murray in the semi final. Murray will not always be able to avoid Fed in slams for the short term at least.

And then tehre is the biggest question mark over any possible Murray domination of the tour - Nadal. When will he come back? Will he come back? If he does will he be able to get back to the level he was at pre Wimbeldon this year? If the answer is yes, then it's bad news for Murray. To be honest you cannot be certain on anything regarding Nadal these days.

Still well done Murray for getting rid of that burden. Now the pressure's off until Wimbledon 2013 that is.

lebsta2, the next day, Tuesday, Andy was N0 1 item on all UK news bulletins until 10pm.
That is MASSIVe coverage.
Also today all over national press.
Yay!

"Murray has the luck of the draw and tour this time, not having to face either Rafa or Roger as past US Open results have proven..."

Oh BS, Murray had the hardest draw out of the 3 of them!
`Lucky` draws are a federer phenomenon although Novak benefitted himself in this Open.
Also was Nadal `lucky` when he faced berdych in that Wibledon final?
I know he was when he faced some non entity for his first clay slam as were Roger and Novak facing players who have only had one final appearance each.
Murray faced a resurgent Novak already one of the greats, with recent results over Nadal in finals to prove it. So can it with your `lucky` nonsense.

"Although we'll never know for sure , it;s likely Fed would've beaten Murray in the semi final. Murray will not always be able to avoid Fed in slams for the short term at least..."

I know, fed was going down in that semi, just as he did at the olympics. Fed has always gotten the upper hand of the OCCASION against a developing Murray in slam finals only, losing to him almost everywhere else. If you dont think nerves were a key advantage for fed, you know nothing. Murray in a semi, however, is not the same as one in a final, although it looks as if even that shall also be a thing of the past. If they meet at the AO semi as they will (or fed will get nadal) we will probably see him get that first slam win over Federer.
The first of many ;)
I mean if tsonga and berdych can..lol

"If the answer is yes, then it's bad news for Murray.."

blah blah, Andy will start to get the upper hand of Nadal on the HCs, of that I'm pretty sure, less sure about Wimbledon. But i'm totally SURE about the FO (ie he won't)

You can predict all you want lebsta but the reality is we are in new territory now.
Andy is a SLAM winner, so the bets are off.
Things will be never be quite the same again.
And thank goodness for that.

To paraphrase @lucky from a different thread:

RG: forgeddaboutit, it's spoken for........
The rest: it's anybody's to claim..........

People are a bit disengenous when they say Rafa only beat a nonentity in his first slam final quietly forgetting that he beat a seasoned slam winner (Roger Federer) in the SF and he was only 19 when he did that.

^^^.....And that was Rafa's very first slam final as well!!!!!!!!!!!!

^^^Yes yes nadline,
Not trying to take anything away from the `Greatest Clay Court Player of All Time`.
My point still stands however..completely! Being disengenuous is not my style anyway. I like to take things head on, like this insidious, patronising, lebsta character for example.

Looking forward to 2013..................now that Muzza will no longer be handled with kid-gloves by the other 3! THIS, is the real test for Muzza...............he doesn't have to win serially, just consistently make Slam finals to begin with.................

lobster sounds like wilma. Equally negative.
If Andy's win has to be discounted because he did not face Rafa or Rogie before winning his slam, then 15 of Rogie's 17 slams have to be discounted, 3 of Rafa's 11.
But all 5 of Nole's wins, according to lobster, are the real thing because he had to beat one or both of Rogie/Rafa. Then that makes Nole a bigger champion than Rogie with only 2 legit wins and that too against a "underaged" Rafa ( pre-prime). So beating Nole in the final would make Muzza's 1st gs title awesome.
What's lobster's point? Let him analyze all of Rogie's draws, let us know why he considers them tough as compared to Muzza's at this USO and also why he considers all the players Rogie beat in slam finals more legit than Nole?

^^I think you well & truly grabbed this particular lobster out of the tank and stuffed its ass right into the boiling pan of water holdserve.

Some people tie themselves up in knots trying to diminish the achievements of every player not called Federer. However, it's a well known fact that lobsters have no brain.

I think you people are being very harsh on lebsta..I didnt atleast interpret it as malice when he/she wrote what she wrote..I think he/she was just penning his/her thoughts.

I would like to answer questions posed by lebsta2 10:08pm about Rafa:
1. When will he come back? According to Uncle Toni, Rafa will be back before the Australian Open.
2. Will he come back? Yes, see 1. above.
3. If he does will he be able to get back to the level he was per Wimby 2012? Hopefully yes, but nobody knows for sure. However, remember this is not the first time Rafa has been sidelined by injury. His fans hope there is a repeat and he comes back strong.

Right, I normally don't react to crass insults and comments lacking intelligence and understanding, but I will take exception this time.

@Twinge - 1st point.

After reading my post again I fail to see the 'insidious' or 'patronising' nature of my comments. In no way have I speculated or tried to spread any rumours or be condescending to anyone. Please ensure that you have full grasp of the words that you're using before you post.

@Twinge & Holdserve

2nd point on Murray's luck. This was not a comment as such on his overall tournament draw, though I would say that the likes of Cilic and Berdych are less difficult opponents than Del Potro and Ferrer whom Novak had to face.

Now if you analyse things properly - Murray's recent slam losses were:
2010 v Federer - Australian Open Final
2010 v Nadal - Wimbledon SF
2011 V Nadal - French Open, Wimbledon, US Open semis
2012 v Federer - Wimbledon Final.

So based on actual 'results' and not your abrasive opinions, Fed and Nadal have a clear domination over Murray when it comes to slam semis and finals. In no way does it indicate that Nole's slams wins are 'greater' as both Fed and Rafa have beaten Nole several times in their slam victories and now vice versa. So you can't test the legitimacy of any of the 3 players as they are multiple slam winners. Despite Murray's US Open, it's not yet proven that he has infinitely improved enough to beat Rafa or Fed in the slams consistently. This is the point I'm making, and remember it's based on 'facts' not childish insults such as yours. For the 2nd time - please read my comments properly and make sure you fully understand them before responding.

@Nadline

I'm surprised and slightly disappointed in your participation to the immature bile generated by Twinge and holdserve. I expect better from you especially since I haven't said any derogatory about Rafa. Again in no way have my comments belittled other players' achievements in comparison to Federer's. Murray has always had the ability to beat Federer, just not consistently in slams, which is back up by facts stated in my 2nd point. Again when dealing in actual facts and research and not sly comments, Lobsters do actually have brains, they're just not centralized ones like the ones found in mammals. Not that i'm a lobster, it just helps to read things properly and digest them fully before responding as stated in my 2nd point.

I thought this site was for intelligent debates, and conversations on tennis, so if any of you have proper counter arguments to my comments then I'm more than welcome to hear them. We can then discuss further. However if you want to hide behind silly, crude and crass schoolboy comments, then please don't bother replying as I just don't want to waste time on uneducated kindergarten conversations.

And just to add the name is spelt 'lebsta' not 'lobster'

lebsta2,
Please ignore the usual suspects. Your post was very reasonable. Twinge is always inebriated when he posts and holdserve and nadline pretend Nadal is their imaginary boyfriend.

the old aged saying that the rankings never lie! A fit Rafa next year wont be lingering about the no.4 spot. Congrats Murray on the last 3-4 months, breathtaking performances

Your crystal ball says he will be fit for the whole year huh? My guess is surgery by July.

chr18, 9/13/12 1:22 AM

#Troll
#Hate
#Reason
#10-18
#FedbotInspiration

Don't worry lobster, I have understood you perfectly. I googled "lobster brains" and got this:
A lobster has a brain about the same size as a grasshopper's which is pretty small for a large creature like a lobster. Lobster brains lack the complexity of human brains which means a lobster is unable to think.

Ahem, Wimby Olympics final was a Slam final, except in name only. Fed would be foolish to go around thinking Muzza has never beaten him in a 5-set final.........

All 4 at the top have beaten each other in Slams, it's all square at the top..............

chr18, is not our crystal ball says that our humble champ will be fit whole year, but that what we call positive thinking... but if you guess there will be a surgery Jul, we also guess that there will be a crying again in Jul.... ur cry baby idol...

Lol, there post's make me laugh. No wonder there are not many new posters on this site, it is crazy how everyone has jumped on lebsta's back when all he/she was doing was giving an opinion and making very valid points.

lebsta,

I did read your post yesterday, but only came on here to post once because it was 9/11. I didn't feel like discussing tennis on that day.

I see that there has been quite a lively discussion, to say the least, about your comment. I wanted to give my thoughts.

First, sometimes there is a time and a place for some comments and sometimes it's just better to wait. You have to know that the Murray fans who have waited for this moment and suffered along with their favorite, would be offended by some of what you said. Whether it's fact or not, there is also such a thing as being respectful of the moment. This was the time for Murray fans and many of us to all celebrate his great victory. This has been something that has eluded him for so long.

As far as who he beat to get the win, I will never agree with your statement about that. Murray cannot control who he meets in his draw. So this argument has always bothered me and it's been leveled at Rafa at times. I also do not think that playing Raonic and Cilic was an easy task. There are two incredibly talented young players who can be very difficult to play. Berdy is not an easy player to beat. Just ask Fed!

You also said that it was likely that Fed would have beaten Murray! Based on what? The past record between the two at slams? Did you see the way Fed was playing? There's a reason he lost in the quarterfinals to Berdy. He had a very easy draw and got knocked out by the first tough opponent he met. I do not think that Fed would have beaten this Murray, the Murray that beat him at the Olympics. I think that victory was a huge boost of confidence for Murray.

You talked about whether Murray would win another slam? Why even go there? He won his first slam, so I say give him credit and don't even bother to talk about the next time! Why think ahead now? There is something to say for staying in the moment!

I think that much of your post was kind of patronizing and condescending towards Murray even as you finally congratulated him for his victory. But you also tried to diminish it in many ways and that is part of what bothered people here. Honesty, I do not blame them.

Nobody knows the future. Whether Murray will win another slam remains to be seen. But nothing should be taken away from his effort at this slam final. He beat the #2 player in the world, the defending champion! Even if Nole wasn't at his best, that's not the point. Murray showed tremendous mental strength when it really counted. He could have folded when Nole evened the match at two sets all. He's had his problems so often in the past with staying mentally tough and focused.

Both guys gave it their all. They left it all out on the court. Any time someone tries in any way to demean or quibble about a player winning a slam, that will inevitably draw a strong response. The fact that you don't understand why people reacted the way they do, shows that you don't get it.

Everyone knows that Murray hasn't beaten Fed or Rafa in a slam final yet. So what? There's still time! I do not subscribe to minimizing a slam win because of the quality of the opposition. This happened when Rafa won the 2010 USO. I remember so many people saying that he had an easy draw. That takes nothing away from how great he was playing. You play the ones who get through.

You should reread your post again and maybe get a clue why people were so upset and angry.

Sorry lebsta, I just couldn't resist it.

"Despite Murray's US Open, it's not yet proven that he has infinitely improved enough to beat Rafa or Fed in the slams consistently..."

Infinitely improved?
Infinitely??!
lol
I fail to see why Tsonga & Berdych can knock Federer out in slams in a number of occasions and yet Andy has to be `infinitely improved` to do the same.
The bias is revealed in your pseudo intellectual posturing.
Andy has only just made this break through after 9 months of dramatic improvements. Sorry lebsta you may fool others here as there are a lot of dim witted Federer fans but i am unconvinced by your posts as to the indominability of federer in a slam, as recents events confirm this is simply not the case. Andy has always had a positive H2H with Roger, so i just dont buy it.
As i have said and i am 100% certain on this, the Murray in a semi was be more than enough to give federer grief in a way he has not experienced from him in a final..yet.
Just hang on in there a while longer dear & he will fully dismantle your argument ;)

"Please ignore the usual suspects. Your post was very reasonable. Twinge is always inebriated when he posts.."

Oh dear Ch18 appears to be satisfied in his/her new role as a Scoretracker groupie.
lol, Well if that floats your boat, who am i to pass judgement?

"though I would say that the likes of Cilic and Berdych are less difficult opponents than Del Potro and Ferrer whom Novak had to face..."

What?
Andy had, bar one opponent, a difficult draw off the bat.
This cannot be said for Novak this time, overall.
Del potro was a quarter finalist and Ferrer a semi, what about the rest of his draw?
And if you think Berdych is easier than Ferrer on a fast hardcourt, well I think there just might be a swiss tennis player licking his wounds right now that disagrees.
Murrays draw WAS the toughest from the bat, they almost always are.
Try again dear.

chr18, 9/12/12 11:47 PM

So true...that may have been the most I've laughed at a post here on TT in at least 6 months...

And pay no attention to the mob lebsta2, if d-bags like twinge and holdserve didn't have someone to hate on they'd probably shrivel up and die. Take the consecutive posts above for instance. He can't even think anything through enough to keep his thoughts in one bubble.

Twinge, 9/13/12 11:08 AM,

Woo hoo! Way to go! You do have a way with words and some great zingers! Love it!

Yes, chr18 does seem to like his new role!

This was one of the best responses of the day! :)

"if d-bags like twinge and holdserve didn't have someone to hate on they'd probably shrivel up and die. Take the consecutive posts above for instance. He can't even think anything through enough to keep his thoughts in one bubble..."

blah blah blah lol i cant think in one bubble?? devastating!
Why are you still here ts38? What is your purpose now your beloved Roddick's career has ascended to the hardcourts in the sky? Anyway i'll take as many posts as i see fit thank you. And if it p**ses you off all the better.

^^Thanks NNY, more to follow too ;)

Hi Nativenewyorker.

First I will give out kudos for at least coming back with a mature and intelligent argument with comments that were well written as opposed to other posters on this site.

I do however disagree with most of your comments.

I take your view about the timing of my comments, an how it may seem like was getting at Murray literally a day after he won the tournament. After going through what I said i think certain people overreacted and got overly defensive and many times let their emotions get the better of them and that has a toxic effect on how they write. Unfortunately this is commonplace on this site when someone reads a less than 100% positive view on the player that they support.

Going over my post again, I am merely telling the questions that will now be asked of Murray now that he is finally a major winner. When a sportsperson of any kind claims that ultimate accolade in their sport, their career automatically comes under more scrutiny and examination - like it or not, it's just the way it is I'm afraid. Speculation begins on how further that sportsperson can go? did they get lucky? how good are their competitors? how long will they last at the top? etc,

Practically every 1st time major winner in every sport faces these questions and it's no different for Murray. The likes of McIlroy, Vettel etc had to prove they weren't one hit wonders and now Murray has to do the same. I'm not trying to diminish Murray as I'm British and glad he finally won a major, but its naive to think that now all the pressure's off. I can't even to begin to imagine the wave of expectation at next year's Wimbledon - manic hysteria may not even come close this time around.

Think back, when Rafa was constantly winning the French people asked, 'when will he win Wimbledon? Australia? US? Now he answered those questions quickly and consecutively now we must see what Murray can do.

I actually disagree when u say don't minimalize a slam victory towards who you play. This is why we praise mulitple slam winners so much , because they are constantly beating a high level competition again and again. Wozinacki and Safina could never justify their No1 status because they couldn't beat the top players at the major tournaments. Rafa, Fed, Nole have all done this beating each other all along the way, which is why i said that you can't question their credentials. Of course Murray would've had a chance against Rafa or Fed , and yes he has beaten them several times, but only in Masters series , 2 out of 3 setters. The grand slam statistics backup the fact that, prior to 2012 he is yet to defeat them where it matters most. Now if Murray does this in 2013 then I will be as happy as all other British fans for sure but the question still remains.

Now you will throw back the Olympics at me which is fair but I ask you this. If Murray could've swapped the Olympic gold for a Wimbledon win and now be sitting with 2 slams to his name - do you think he would take it?

I think that what you need to understand is that nowadays, due to the unrelenting coverage and spotlight these athletes are under, they are always going to be comparisons, specualations, theories about a player's ability and achievements. It's not being negative, it's just part of looking to that next level to see if our favourite player(s) can reach the plateaus set by their contemporaries and there's nothing wrong, or condescending about that at all

Of course Murray would've had a chance against Rafa or Fed , and yes he has beaten them several times, but only in Masters series , 2 out of 3 setters. The grand slam statistics backup the fact that, prior to 2012 he is yet to defeat them where it matters most.

lebsta2, 9/14/12 6:57 PM

Murray has actually beaten Nadal twice in best of five slam meetings.

^^^Thats true, but Rafa won all their latest three encounters during last year. At least Rafa vs Nole, they did beat each other in slams, 3-1 to Nole from AO last year, 3-2 to Nole if we include in USO2010. Nole vs Fed, it's 3-2 to Nole from AO last year, 4-2 to Nole from USO2010.

Murray is 0-3 against Rafa and 0-1 against Fed this past two years. At least he's 1-2 against Nole now, so he's moving in the right direction with this win at the USO.

One of Murray's 2 GS wins over Rafa was a retirement by Rafa.

BTW werent there sum obnoxious posters here who ridiculed Murray last week , about his inability to win a slam, even held Roddick higher than him..

Any idea where are they? Evaporated in thin air? :-) Praise the Lord if they actually did :-)