Keep working Delpo. You can do it!

I hope he returns fit and fully recovered and slots himself where he belongs....................in the Top 4!

He still needs to work on his fitness though...................but then again, maybe his size is the one chink in his overall armour.

What's the purpose of the poll? It doesn't determine anything than to please the fancies of certain unrealistic fans. Fed to finish 2012 as year end no.1? It's like searching for a needle being thrown into the sea!

"What's the purpose of the poll? It doesn't determine anything than to please the fancies of certain unrealistic fans. Fed to finish 2012 as year end no.1? It's like searching for a needle being thrown into the sea! ", luckystar

Agreed. Djokovic is very probably going to be the year end nº 1 next year save injury. Djokovic owns nadal on every surface. Only Federer is able to beat djokovic when he is on but Roger lacks the consistency, in this part of his career, needed to stay at #1. Despite this I believe Roger will be #1 sometime during 2012, although for a brief period only.

So the votes for federer and nadal are votes of "unrealistic fans".

A big apology to anyone who tried to log in at about 1:30 GMT. Tennistalk was hacked and for about a half hour, everyone who attempted to log in got the error message "you are banned from this site".

Thanks for your patience, and again, apologies for any inconvenience.

Thanks Cheryl.

bleck, so we agree that Nole has the best chance to be year end no.1 in 2012. No argument there from me! And it looks like there're more unrealistic Fed fans than the Rafa fans!

If DelPo gets into the top 4, who will fall out of it? Will Ferrer finally believe he has a legit chance against the Top 4?

Number 1 is usually whoever can win 2 slams. Most of the top guys favor hard court surfaces. Nadal isn't a good bet to win a hc slam, although obviously it can happen. His best shots are RG and Wimbly. Federer and Djokovic are also legit contenders for RG, as well as Wimbly.

Not sure Murray is ever going to have the consistency to challenge for Number 1. Not sure Fed has it any more either. DelPo's been struggling with injuries. Throughout his career Rafa has rallied from down periods to rise to even greater heights - and every one should "suffer" an "off" year like Nadal's 2011. Can Djokovic restart his motor? Can he dominate again? Time will tell. And how about Tsonga? The guy can play with anyone - well, maybe not Nadal on clay :p - IF he's healthy.

That's why these matches are not played on paper. No one gave Rafa a ghost of a chance coming into 2010 with the disastrous year he had in 2009, but he swept all before him including the elusive USO. Who gave Nole a chance coming into 2011 - No one.

We shall see how 2012 unfolds.

<strong><a href="http://www.bignorthface.org/">The North Face Big Shot</a></strong><br><strong><a href="http://www.bignorthface.org/">Buy North Face</a></strong><br><strong><a href="http://www.bignorthface.org/">NorthFace Sale</a></strong><strong><a href="http://www.bignorthface.org/">The North Face Outlet</a></strong><strong><a href="http://www.bignorthface.org/">The North Face Clothing</a></strong><strong><a href="http://www.bignorthface.org/north-face-womens-north-face-2-in-1-jackets-c-1_13_20.html">North Face 2 in 1 Jackets for Women</a></strong><strong><a href="http://www.bignorthface.org/north-face-mens-north-face-2-in-1-jackets-c-1_39.html">cheap women north face</a></strong><br><strong><a href="http://www.bignorthface.org/north-face-mens-north-face-windstopper-jackets-c-1_5.html">North Face Windstopper Jackets for Mens</a></strong><br><strong><a href="http://www.bignorthface.org/north-face-mens-north-face-shoes-c-1_40.html">MENs north face shoes</a></strong><strong><a href="http://www.bignorthface.org/north-face-mens-north-face-down-jackets-c-1_9.html">The North Face down Jackets</a></strong>

<strong><a href="http://www.somepandora.com/new-arrivals-c-1.html">New Arrivals</a></strong><br>
<strong><a href="http://www.somepandora.com/new-arrivals-c-1.html">2011 new arrivals</a></strong><br>
<strong><a href="http://www.somepandora.com/new-arrivals-c-1.html">Pandora Bracelets Online</a></strong><br>
<strong><a href="http://www.somepandora.com/new-arrivals-c-1.html">Buy Pandora Charms</a></strong><br>
<strong><a href="http://www.somepandora.com/new-arrivals-c-1.html">wholesale pandora</a></strong><br>
.The continuous movement of this bulk stock emphasizes two to three critical issues about excellent:<br />1.that purchasing discount cigarettes is generally cheap<br />2.stocks are definitely frequently replenished than within an offline shop<br />3.higher the sales stronger may be the smokers endorsement of quality<br /><br />So How you can Contrast this Cheap Smokes against Those Bought In a Corner Shop With reference to Price/Quality Ratio<br />To commence with, lets guess the properties of bargain cigarettes ordered online are on par by using cigarettes with a neighborhood retail store.But within the bargain, you'll possess paid less money per carton/stick ordered online.The less expensive cigarettes and also the price/quality relative amount comes within suspicion only when your consignment isnt delivered who is fit or throughout the specified moment

"That's why these matches are not played on paper. No one gave Rafa a ghost of a chance coming into 2010 with the disastrous year he had in 2009, but he swept all before him including the elusive USO. Who gave Nole a chance coming into 2011 - No one."

Yes it's true that since 2008 there hasn't been a player who dominated for a couple straight years. But from 2004 to 2007 Roger dominated.

Why wouldn't djokovic be able to dominate another year and win 2/3 slams. He's no Federer but I think he will surely win 1 slam maybe 2.

This year just showed how hard it is to win 3 slams in a year. Djokovic had to play at an incredible high level and was 1 point away, 2 times, of "only" winning 2 slams.

So I think next year we'll have 3 or 4 slam winners. With djokovic possibly winning 2.

I'm not sure why Rafa doesn't have a chance at a hard court slam, where he won the AO and the USO, and reached the final of the USO in 2011 when clearly 2011 he wasn't at his best? When was the last time Fed won a hard court slam? January 2010 I think and since then he reached the SFs at best at the hard court slams. I rate Nole and Rafa ahead of Fed at a hard court slam these days, not forgetting Rafa always get the better of Fed on outdoor hard courts.

In fact I rate Rafa ahead of Fed at all the slams, Nole ahead of Fed and Rafa at hard court slams; Rafa ahead of Nole at RG and equal at Wimbledon and Fed ahead of Nole at RG and Wimbledon.

Also when we have two players capable of winning three slams in a year may mean that we have two dominant players instead of only one (like Fed from 2004-2007). To me that doesn't mean that they're any less a player as Fed, it just happens that both Rafa and Nole are of the same age group and reached their peak one year apart. There's no guarantee that had they been in Fed's age group and reached their peak in about the same time as Fed, Fed would dominate over them. To me they may be as good as Fed during his prime and no one can say for sure who among the three would be the best.

The fact is, predictions are usually based of recent events. Last year this time, if anyone had predicted the kind of year Rafa has had in 2011 they have been laughed at because he seemed to be at the height of his powers and nigh unbeatable. Things turned out differently for one reason or another; even after Nole's performance in the final of the DC, no one ever tipped him to win the AO, let alone Wimbledon and the USO.

In the end, there is absolutely no way of telling who wil shine in 2012. I hope it's Rafa. With tournaments run on the basis of one strike and you are out and not on a RR basis, a player could play a bad match and lose in an early round, when had he won that particular match, he could go on to win the whole thing. Take Rafa's 1st rnd match against Isner at RG, where he came close to losing, he didn't and went on to win his 6th RG title. Tennis is a funny sport, there are too many nuances which make it difficult to predict what will happen in the coming season.

To me they may be as good as Fed during his prime and no one can say for sure who among the three would be the best.

luckystar , 12/15/11 10:24 AM


The one with most slams people don't remember if and buts after retirement of players.

mani4Tennis, please read my post carefully. I said 'to me...', ie IMO, who cares what others think? They have their opinions and I have mine, if not what's the point of having discussions? Also who knows Fed may not end up being the one with the most slams!

"There's no guarantee that had they been in Fed's age group and reached their peak in about the same time as Fed, Fed would dominate over them."

Disagree with part of this statement. Yes nadal has an advantage over federer because of the match up issue. Nadal gave federer trouble since the 1st time they played. As for federer not dominating djokovic I disagree.

In 2011 at 30 years of age Federer could've easily been 2-3 against djokovic. Yes I know he went 1-4 but one can't overlook the fact he had MP in the US Open. If federer at 30 can play like he did this year against a peak djokovic I think he would own djokovic if both were at their picks. The slow hardcourts are the only place where I would say it would be 50-50.

It's interesting to think about the rock-paper-scissors theory. And I believe it would apply most of the time if nadal, Djokovic and Roger all played in their prime at the same time. So it would all come down to the draw.

I strongly believe that had Roger and nadal been in the same half of the draw at RG djokovic would be the FO right now. And if Roger won the semis against djokovic at the US Open then nadal might as well be the US Open champion right now. That's why the draw plays such an important role nowadays in my opinion.

P.S.: When a couple weeks ago I posted about scenarios of what would've happened if this or that nadal fans promptly responded saying that "we'll never know" "it's no use thinking about what would've been" ...

So before you jump on me. I was responding to luckystar's analysis of what would've happened if djokovic, nadal and Roger played in their prime at the same time. So don't fuss about it. Thank you.

bleck, you seem to think you are the only one capable of rational thinking.

I disagree with bleck about the FO. You've forgetten about a guy named Murray. If Fed was at Rafa's half at the FO, then Murray would be the one meeting Nole at the SF. Given that Monfils had a hard fought QF against Ferrer and hence lost easily against Fed, he would also lost to Murray. And after seeing how Murray could trouble Nole at Rome, I don't think it's a given that Nole would beat Murray. It might turn out to be a Rafa/Murray final and Rafa was always a tough match up for Murray. Nole, in my opinion, wasn't playing well at all during the FO, a Delpo not at his best already could give him all sorts of troubles.

People always take for granted that Nole would sure reach the FO final had it not for Fed; the thing is Nole had never ever reached a FO final. A Nole/Murray semifinal would not automatically guarantee a Nole victory. We should take into consideration all factors when we wish to support our case.

"the thing is Nole had never ever reached a FO final" Neither did he had reached a wimbledon final. He won 2 clay masters against nadal so he wasn't exactly playing badly on clay. Also did you watch the semis between Roger and djokovic. Roger had to play almost god like to win the match.

Nice baiting nadline. As I said in the other thread won't fall for it. But i'll say this I think I'm more capable of rational thinking than you.

Also bleck had forgotten that a 20 yo Nole had pushed Fed close in all three sets of the USO final in 2007, and Fed was 26 then, still in his prime. Fed and Nole have never met on grass, and Nole had always push Fed close on the hard courts even before Nole reached his prime. To me, a Fed at his prime vs a Nole at his prime, on the hard courts it'll always be close, even on clay too. So it's not a given than Fed would surely be better than Nole if both are in their prime.

Now Rafa vs Nole, it's only this year that Nole had the better of Rafa on all surfaces. In the past Rafa was better on clay and grass and Nole better on hard courts. We have to see going forward how things develop between them before forming any conclusion.

bleck, Fed might have played godlike but Nole wasn't, simple as that. He was also getting fed up with the crowd which was pro Fed. If you've watched his match against Delpo, you would know he didn't play as well as he did at Madrid and Rome, simple as that.

Also the fact is until now Nole still have not reached a FO final, but he has won at Wimbledon and USO, not forgetting Nole had not reached the SF of the FO since 2008 until this year; whilst he did reach the SF at Wimbledon last year! There are simply more competent players on clay than on grass, eg. Sod, Ferrer and Delpo who are all better on clay than on grass.

^^^^ Okay. But it's all about matchup issues. If djokovic was on the other side of the net even if he played worse than Roger did on the final he would have more chance of winning.

Also nadal played his worse FO in terms of level of play save 2009. What if djokovic wasn't playing that great?! Nadal wasn't either.

Djokovic had won 4 matches, 2 of them on clay in straight sets before the FO. Do you want me to believe nadal would've won the final had he played Djokovic? I just can't.

bleck what you want to believe that's up to you. The thing is it didn't happen so we can say what we want but we'll never know. It's just like some people insist that Fed would beat Rafa at the USO had he made the final but we'll never know and nobody can prove it!

Well there's always next year so let's see!

"The thing is it didn't happen so we can say what we want but we'll never know."
Yes but if I say had montañes converted one of the MP against fognini he would have gone all the way, no one would take it seriously. We can take some information from the form and matches before and during the FO.

As I said djokovic was 2-0 against nadal on clay (with 4-0 on sets). Djokovic wasn't playing unbelievable but so wasn't nadal. Federer who was a lot of trouble against nadal on clay (matchup issue) lost in 4 sets, 3 of them very tight.
What would djokovic had done knowing this? I think he would've won, you don't. It's opinions, but we can try and back them up.

"It's just like some people insist that Fed would beat Rafa at the USO had he made the final but we'll never know and nobody can prove it!"

I'm not one of those people. I think nadal would have had a good chance of winning the title had he faced Federer (matchup issue).

See, we all can have different opinions. It's no point arguing. Other than Rafa, I'm interested to see how Murray and the three big hitting guys Tsonga, Berdych and Delpo fare during 2012. They're not getting younger, time to make their moves before the next batch of youngsters catch up with them. At least Delpo has one slam title in his pocket, the other three have to work harder. If the four of them help each other out by ambushing the top three together, and then fight against each other, they may stand a chance to win a slam, difficult though not impossible.

I think confidence does wonders to a player so I'll be interested to see if djokovic doesn't win the AO how the rest of his year will be.
Remember it's "easy" getting to the top but staying there is a lot harder. Djokovic will have the pressure of being the defending champion and the favourite for most of the tournaments he'll play in 2012.


I shall wait and see. Very interesting 2012 for sure.

Also I think all the slams will go to the top 3. Maybe 1 for nadal and Roger and 2 for djokovic.

Like you say Bleck getting to No 1 is easier than staying there. The motivation has to be less and it will not be easy for Nole to protect all those points next year. 2012 will be interesting and I hope we will get to see some great tennis.

Most of all I wish for Rafa to be healthy and full of passion and have much more confidence after what happened at the DC final.

Vamos ............

It's not necessary for Nole to defend all his points to remain as no.1; it also depends on the rest of the field. One can be no.1 and yet not dominant, as Fed was in 2009, where he was only a thousand over points ahead of the no.2 guy Rafa. All it takes is for anyone to surge ahead, even slightly, and reach the end of season ahead of the rest.

It's difficult to make predictions based on what happened in 2011; just like no one would expect what happened in 2011 based on what had happened in 2010. Who would foresee Fed not winning any slam in 2011, after his WTF performance in 2010? Who expect Nole would turn the table against Rafa in 2011 and ended up he being the one winning three slams instead of Rafa? We just have to wait patiently for 2012 to come and see how things turn out.

I think Nole's unbelievable and unexpected success this year, is a prime example of why predictions don't really mean that much. For a long time it was either Rafa or Fed, but now things have changed a bit with Nole dominating this year.

I don't think he will have an easy time defending all those points. It's a great ride while you are winning, but just ask Rafa what it feels like the next year! He was defending a mountain of points and actually did quite well. It was his inability to handle the new and improved version of Nole that cost him.

I don't think the end of the year is an accurate predictor of what will happen in the new year. But it will be great to watch it all play out!