He can only become better and betterer. Djokovic level has dropped to considerately the last few months it is not a given that he can get the level back or the POD must be shifted to europe. That means he has to kick out the american footballers who are using it on a daily bases.

Nadal has been trying hard to defuse his coments after WTF where he showed and explained he has a lack of passion. 5 weeks to rest and train and still he could not come rested to the 5 th biggest tournement he badly needs to win and more then once in order to become among the top 5 elite of all time.
He lacks a few guys on several objective measure in being called a great. His lack of passion and lacklustre performance (even worse then 2009) will not contribute to that place in history. As he stands a great player and 1 of 3 greatest claycourters.

Murray looks like Fed to start 2012 with a bang. Hungry like a wolf the same as Fed and eager but capable? I guess so.

I fancy Feds chances on #17. In all those years I have never had to doubt one thing in Federer and that is his love for the game. His passion, his stubborn unwillingnes to concede, to even suggest he is not the best or atleast at the top infuriates him and he show just where he is made from.The spark is always there and brighter then ever.

One thing I can say about Roger is that he is VERY smart with his scheduling. Unlike Nadal and Djokovic, he doesn't beat himself to a pulp. All things considered, I don't think he could have handled his career better.

Defenitely 3 more years, and amass as much slams as possible(22!!!).

I fancy Feds chances on #17...

Sienna , 11/30/11 11:01 PM

Right ON Sienna! I to BELIEVE! :) Whatever happens/happens "WE LOVE THE FED!" Roger appears to have worked something out. He has not only shown in 2011, that he is Djokovic's most dangerous opponent, but ends the year showing signs of strategic implementations in his approach to tennis psychologically, and tactically. We could say he has come unto his own yet again. Balancing what it takes to win expertly. Sheer will, determination , and capacity is still very much vibrant in his persona, and allows the genius factor of his talent to come alive. Revised, Revitalized, and Rejuvenated if you will. Not to visit the past, but expect a stronger, smarter, more all round player explicitly in 2012 overall as compared to 2011. Dare I say it: "The possibility is endless... :) LOL His health is God like, paramount, awesome, and pivotal, and the way he plays complements long lasting health, and continued winning ways. Bring on 2012... :) and Enjoy! C'MON! Go FED GO! :)

sky
where you the poster who throughout januari 2010 endedcyour post with
C'MON FED
TIME TO LIFT ANOTHER ONE DOWN UNDER!

I believe it was you... That was great. And of course he did.

I agree with you Fed is gonna be in terrific shape for januari. He will be the man to beat I feel. His fitness programme is about to start in december and that will certainly kick in come the AU Open. He is looking so good it bring shovers down my spine, just because I know he can.

is it shivers?

Not me Sienna, there were a lot more cool FEDfans on this site at the time. But I could say it now: "C'MON FED TIME TO LIFT ANOTHER ONE DOWN UNDER! :) :) :)

It wouldn't surprise me if Roger won the AO. The off-season, after all, is really quite short. I'm wondering if Rafa and Nole are going to have enough time to recover. Obviously, Rafa was in fine form today, but I'm guessing he's still exhausted. And Nole has physical issues that must resolve himself if he is to come anywhere near duplicating his 2011 season.

cheryl,

What about Murray? I don't think that injury he had in London was serious. I would expect him to come out strong in 2012.

Fed is defo smarter with his schedul he's picking his battles RafaelN could benefit (if he wants to) Fed still has the hunger to win which you only have when you are doing something you enjoy. As long as Fed has this PMA there is no reason (apart from injury)why he shouldnt enjoy competing in the top four 2012. Smart management is defo paying dividends for Fed. Come the A/0 AndyM will be rested and ready to rock as will Fed, NovakD and RafaelN not sure, time will tell.

Although being a passionate Rafan, I must admit one thing about Fed: he was the only one to stand up and confront the best form ever, 2011 unbeatable version of Nole at the FO...Fed was the one to beat that top form Nole and he has done it at his least favorite surface...if he was able to do so this year, I wonder what else he will be able to do next year, especially if top guys continue to struggle each with their own issues...the guy is really amazing with his passion and love for tennis...I truly admire his huge motivation and his belief in himself...Rafa could learn some from Fed in this regard...

Cheryl, I agree.

You cannot write a 16 times GS champion off nor a 10 thimes GS champion.

If that is the case you cannotrwrite off 3 slamwinner of lastyear. But it is about fitness and mindset. Fed is exactly at the right spot to be. Unlike Rafa who is still in th emidst of a final.
And dont come claiming about last year of other years. He needs some serious relaxing and time of from tennis of T if you want to. Djokovic last year went on a tear. He did not book a holiday but was having serious training in december an jnauari he did not treatred december as the off season because there is no off season in december, If you want to make an impact at AU Open. Ask Agassi if he had offseason in december.

Murray Fed look very good for the start of 2012.. Nadal will not be ready come AU Open and Djokovic will try to defend his title off course but he has not the best cards at the moment.

natashao, Rafa is showing enough passion in Seville now.

Also, don't count Murray out, he was close to beating Nole too on Murray's weakest surface, clay, at Rome. Murray is certainly less competent on clay than Fed and yet he had match points against Nole on clay at Rome. He also beat Nole at Cincy, though Nole was injured, not forgetting that was not even Murray's best level; his best level this year IMO was during the Tokyo tournament, esp in the final against Rafa.

To me, I'll like to see that Murray of Tokyo Open vs a top form Nole, on the hard courts. Just imagine, if in 2012, Fed playing the way he played at the WTF, Murray playing the way he played at the Tokyo Open, or a top form Nole, or even a Rafa playing like the way he played during his DC matches, how interesting will the new season be? Not forgetting a top form Tsonga, Berdych and Delpo, plus the rest of the top ten or top twenty all playing well.

Cheryl, Rafa is just mentally exhausted. He's physically OK, judging by how well he played at this DC final. The way he's playing now, i can see all parts of his game coming together and working very well, bode well for the coming season. He just needs to let his mind off from tennis for the next few weeks. I really feel that the DC final weighed heavily in his mind, just like in 2009; once the task of winning the DC Final is accomplished, I believe Rafa should be mentally relaxed. He should be more confident come the new season as his game is working fine again.

natashao - do remember both Fed and Rafa have come through bad times in their careers in the past, Fed in 2008 when he had mono and Rafa in 2009 when he was injured. Both of them had to fight their way back to the top and in the process being written off by their critics. It's normal that sometimes Fedal themselves would have some self doubts during their down period, the important thing is they keep believing in themselves and also they love the game enough not to give up. Rafa is entitled to some rantings and unhappiness this year as it's not easy to swallow so many defeats in so many finals. He should be fine after all are done and dusted for this year and with the Davis Cup in Spain's grip.

Roger will never touch Rafa's record on clay. That's now set in stone.

lucky, you are right about Rafa's DC game...I myself was amazed to see him playing that well, I believe even better than the way he played at the FO this year...I also noticed that Rafa was standing closer to the baseline than what he usually was doing on HC this year...aggressive and confident Rafa is always a winning combination...

What I admire about Fed is this: being 30 years old and accomplished almost everything ? still missing that single gold medal, though :) he still is so passionate about playing tennis...I really can't see either of the top 4 being in such "mood" at the age of 30...

natashao, that's because Fed has already achieved what he set out to achieve and is now enjoying the fruits of his labour. Because of his achievements, he's being held in high esteem and things are all going his way, like fan support, sponsorships, awards, etc and etc. If he still can play good tennis then why not continue playing? Why stop doing something you find pleasure doing and is still doing well at? Furthermore there are new challenges that he may find interesting to overcome. Also he's relatively fit and healthy so why stop?

Now contrast that with Safin. I believe Safin has his share of injuries and that may have affected his game and also his passion for the game. Safin with all his talent and good look, if he continues playing, injury free, I think he'll not retire at age 29 and fans will still support him, sponsorship will still come his way and he may become one guy like Fed, though may not have the same level of accomplishments.

Nobody knows what the future lies for Nole or Rafa. They're still young, one is already a great and another may be on his way to greatness too. They may not play pass 30 yo, but both started earlier than Fed; Rafa at 15 and Nole at 16. They may have a good 13-15 years career and achieve many things too in their careers. Will they match Fed's achievements in the end, nobody knows but my guess is they'll both have their own records and be remembered by many tennis fans.

Of course I have not touched the open nerve yet. But are it go's.
You guys are not blind so you obviously see it for yourself.

He is enjoying the tennis. You have to ask yourself why?
He has to ask himself why?

Different people, different environment, different setting, different interhuman encounters. different perspective....

DIFFERENT COACH!!

NNY - I didn't forget about Murray. But I cannot in good conscience call him a favorite to win the AO. He hasn't yet fronted up in the big moments at a slam. Once he does, I'll add him back in as a favorite.

I think Federer has a better shot than Muzz right now.

@nadline
"Roger will never touch Rafa's record on clay. That's now set in stone."

Never say 'never'. How did you arrive at this conclusion, do you have a crystal ball to proclaim 'never'? Anyway, do you really think that Rafa's record on clay is of any importance to Roger? You cannot be serious, really. Roger's got 16GS titles and can add more. Perhaps, you can look at that stat, and maybe wonder if Nadal will ever be able to touch Roger's GS tally. Having said that, perhaps I respond by saying that Nadal will 'never' touch Roger's 16Gs wins, period. However, I won't say that coz I don't possess your psychic powers. Let's just see what happens when their respective careers are over and then perhaps you can make an assessment of your predictions. I'll say this much, at the rate Nadal's going, I doubt he'll still be playing at age 30 with the fire in his belly that Roger possesses.

Isn't it wonderful that we'll be able to see more Fedal matches, but that might cause some problems for Nadal fans considering the beatdown he received at Roger's hands at the WTF. I suppose it's safe to say, but I won't be so emphatic as you are, that Nadal will never touch Roger's record on indoor HC and/or HC in general, but as I stated, I won't say that. haha.How do you like them apples, Nadline?.

cheryl,

Thanks for your response. I have to agree with you, given that Murray has yet to break the hurdle of winning his first slam. Until he does it, as you say he cannot be regarded as a favorite.

lucky,

I find it so interesting that Rafa's game is still there and intact! That tells me that much of his problem has to mental. His passion was never more evident than in his match with Monaco. Playing for his country on his beloved clay, seems to invigorate Rafa. The fact that Monaco wasn't a real threat to him does not bother me. I mean, realistically, who is a real threat to Rafa on clay? Even the other top players have not had much success, at least until Nole beat Rafa this year at Madrid and Rome. But Rafa won the big prize, RG. Still the King of Clay.

There is a reason that no one was able to do what Borg did for so many years. That's because he was that good and no one else could match what he did on clay and grass. It took thirty years for someone to match his six RG titles. In Borg's day people had the sense to realize what it took to dominate on clay. If it was easy, then others would have been able to challenge him. Think about the great champions who were unable to win at RG. That's because it is difficult.

Rafa's game is still there. He just needs a bit of rest, a new perspective and some tweaks to his game. He will need to find answers to Nole. I have confidence that he will do just that. He has always risen to challenges.

I don't think Fed would ever match Rafa's record on clay. How many matches Rafa played on clay and lost? Even Fed's best record on indoor hard courts can't match that of Rafa's clay records. I believe Fed lost more indoor hard court matches than Rafa lost his on clay, and I'm not sure Fed played more indoor hard court matches than Rafa played his clay court matches.

lucky,

We know that Fed will never match Rafa's record on clay. His record is phenomenal and is the only one mentioned in the same class as Borg. When his career is over, not only will he be considered one the greatest champions ever, but he will go down as the greatest clay court player in history.

You are just being baited, so leave it alone. It's a waste of time. Why argue when you will not be heard? We should celebrate how great Rafa played and not worry when others try to demean it or make it seem as though the Argentine players are at death's door or at a huge advantage. Rafa has played more matches than anyone, even Nole. He should be tired, yet he finds a way to bring his best in DC.

There are no excuses! If the Argentine players cannot bring their best no matter what, then too bad on them.

by pointing out the starting age of rafa and novak , luckystar finally acknowledges that it is not the age that matters but the time on court that matters. Eventhough Rafa is five years behind Fed in real age , he is probably only two years away in tennis age!

lol, talk about being paranoid and distorted. Now I'm baiting luckystar, whose twisted posts I don't even read? I'm replying to nadline's one-liner re Nadal's clay records which she feels are written in stone. lol. I suppose some people are just naturally contentious and will look for anything to start a war, or are we feeling a bit deprived coz there's nothing to pick on? Enjoy the snarling it's what's done best, isn't it? I suppose luckystar will come on to back up her comrade. It works this way, one attacks, and the other jumps in to support and vice versa. A terrific combination that's laughable. lol

Who's starting a war here? Strange people! Since when is pointing out facts equivalent to starting a war? Ain't we comparing performances on clay courts and then on indoor hard courts here?? Fed and Rafa each has his own records on certain surfaces, full stop. Fed's records on indoor hard courts, while not as impressive as Rafa's on clay, still was impressive enough that maybe no one in future will surpass it? Who knows!

nirv, please check Fedal's match play records. By end of this year, Rafa would have 657 matches played, that's almost equivalent to Fed's 2007. If I'm not wrong, Fed had played 680-685 matches by end of 2007. So effectively Rafa is four years behind Fed in terms of matches played. Fed is closing on 1000 match play, he's currently at about 993 I think, so Rafa has to take four years to catch up to this number, assuming he plays 85 matches a year on average

@nirv02, 5:33am, your comments will fall on deaf ears. It's obvious that at 25 Nadal has logged more tennis hours than Fed did at 25, coz his matches are so long, and it's why Fed has longevity. Novak is slowly beginning to learn Fed's strategy to end matches quickly, which he did to some extent this year.

Isn't that obvious, that Rafa at 25 has already played about the same number of matches as Fed in 2007 at 26? Fed had started his gradual decline at the beginning of 2008, hasten by his mono, so we saw him winning four slams in four years i/o winning three in one year. Let's see how Rafa will do in the coming seasons. Till then it's anyone's guess, speculation will remain as speculation.

Of course one of Rogers biggest strenghts is that he never dudges any bullits.

The Rafafans already on other threads have said that there is noithing wrong with Nadals fitness and his game. So he did win his first RR match only to be totally humiliated by Federer. Is it safe to say that he had enough and wanted to go home and so ducked the final against Fed and another whipping.In doing so he protects a number of records.

H2H off course Agassi already explained how some players protect their H2H against certain players by loosing the match leading up to that player.
His year winloss record would have dropped below the 80% if he would have lost another Fedal final.

Rafa only played the 1 indoor HC even just like last year( I belive) still collecting 3 losse in 2 tournements. When he plays a normal indoor season Rafa's winloss record would be (safe to say) far worser then it is now. Can a so called all time great have a losing record Indoor HC or a record around the 50%. I believe not. So avoiding the losses will protect his record.
Why is rafa playing meaningless tournements in the orient 250 / 500 instead of becoming a better indoor HC player? (money is no problem for him he has enough)
It can only be explainend that he has got no faith at beating TMF on this surface therefor he avoids the season at a whole. When you do not encounter your opponent you do not get a loss in your record.

Thats bogus luckystar , did u compare the hours each of them has spent?

I do thinkg that the younger players tap themselves out physically by the slam bang play - rather than mixing it up with more strategic placement. Not sure why they take that course of action? Is it the need to prove something to everyone other than that they can excel at this sport? It seems odd, and they come crashing down after a year or two of winning seasons with increased or a variety of injuries. It seems they know about sports nutrition, so that may not be an issue? Do they know about alcohol consumption and its effects? If so, then clearly the style of play should change so they can last longer at a higher level. Colorado USA

zare,

Thanks for reminding the Fed fans about that scintillating victory over hapless Nishikori! They think that was a win for the ages, yet Rafa's win over Monaco was nothing least according to bleck on the other thread. Love the hypocrisy!

I guarantee you that if it was Fed who beat Delpo in this match this way, it would be heralded as the most sublime win ever, TMF and all that!

Delpo played some great tennis and made Rafa work for the win. He gave it all he had, but Rafa won it on his sheer will power and mental strength. This is something that we have not seen from him often enough this year. What a way to end the year!

I am thrilled for every year Roger and Rafa grace us with.

As long as they keep showing up, I believe their fans will keep doing so as well. I know I certainly will.

Running away again Scoretracker?
:-)

Let's try not to get nasty, shall we? The season is done and fighting about what may or may not happen in 2012 won't help anything. THanks.

Well Rafa did take a bit longer to finish his matches than Fed did. On average about 18 mins more per match. So if we use Fed as a gauge, Rafa by mid 2014 would reach the amount of time Fed spent on court by end of 2011. That's provided Rafa plays the same schedule and finishes his matches in exactly the same way like in the past.

Rafa started playing in the ATP tours at end of 2002 at the Mallorca tournament. His first full season should be 2003, so by mid 2014, he will be eleven and a half years playing the ATP tours. Fed started playing his ATP tours in 1999, so by now he's thirteen years in the tour, so Rafa would be taking one and a half years less time to reach the work load of Fed. We shall see by 2014 what Rafa can and has achieved.

Jeminee You ar actually looking for excuses to give Nadal lesser matches as to Fed because he finishes his matches sooner?

A fairer way to start meassuring is the year they won their first slam. But in the end it doesnot matter.
We never look at players in a way that they have won slams before a certain age.
Only with Borg because he retired so young or Agassi because he won AU so late in career. Otherwise it is just the whole deal.

It would benefid Fed actually his winloss in 5 set matches is fenomenal after his firts slam victory.... I believe it is +/- 92 %

It should be playing years, not to measure the moment one wins first slam..Some bloom late, some bloom early

Roger turned pro in 1998 and has is in 14th year of playing
Rafa turned pro in 2002 and is in 10th year of playing

So there is a 4 year difference

bleck..I very well understand the difference

However you would be delusional if you think Roger would beat any of the top 4 today in straight 3 in best of 5..When did that last happen? 2 years back in AO 2010 against Murray..

More recent occurences suggest he will take 4 or 5 sets to slug it out against the top 5-6 players..and he has this year lost 5 set matches in GS being 2 sets to love up..twice at that in Wimby and USO too..Days of beating the top players in straights in best of 5 is far fetched reality (note I wont use word impossible as anything is possible but that applies to everybody)