close one

it won't even be a close one if rafa is'nt feeling his best...he should have stuck to his pasta....but no,he had to eat a salmon...:|

Ricky/Cheryl..u see any outside chance of Rafa toppling Fed ?

I hope this doesn't turn out to be like Miami this year..highly anticipated match and Rafa beat Fed 3 & 2

Ofcourse this time Fed doing a 3 & 2 to Rafa

Agree with cheryl................Fed will edge this encounter

Hope you're right rafaisthebest. Fedal matches are almost always close.

Good luck Roger.

Vamos Rafa!

bleck, and I hope I am wrong!!!

Vamos Rafa, fight!!

I look forward to a good match!

Good luck, Rafa!

Allez Roger! lol

Roger has much chance than Rafa
In stright close sets

Well... If Rafa takes the first set... Rafa in straits two sets.
If Fed takes the first... Fed in 3 sets.
Something tells me that we are going to be surprised :)...
Fed has a little edge ( 'coz of surface), but I don't see him as clear favorite.
His remarks about Muzza's Asian Tour can be backfired to his Paris and Basell titles also. I mean he did not play with top 3. Besides that, his laps of concetration are more than often latelly.
Brain says 55/45% in Fed's favour... But hearth goes for Spanish Warrior :)

Well Folks its a special day Today,
A `Feday`in fact.
Rafa in 3, if he's not needing to drop everything & make a beeline for the toilet that is!

zare.. I am with you..I am going against the tide and predicting Rafa as victor..I know my mind is not agreeing and is saying ' Rafa over Roger on indoor hard court with stomach virus - no way' but neverthless I am going with Rafa as victor .. Lets see if I am proved right ? :-)

If I get proved wrong, no shame..its anyways what 95% people are anyway predicting..Roger for the win..

Nadal will get steamrolled in the first set if his form showed against Fish is anything to go by. Not impressive at all. That match was by far the worst showing of the four matches with both players never even touching the level that they are capable of.

So a stick or maybe 2 games in the first... followed by a closer second set to 5 or tiebreak. Bu Fed should take this in two nice sets.

"So a stick or maybe 2 games in the first..." hehehehe... now that's some serious wishful thinking!

Any way I hope it will be pure delight to watch old rivals in action again.

Rafa in straight sets :P
If rafa is 100% healthy then no chance for federer :)

I am going to go with Rafa on this one but I hope more than anything that its a good match.............at least.........stomach bug or not!!!!

Federer is straights!!

I meant Federer in straights!! lol ;)

Hope you're fighting fit Rafa! Yay! Come on!

ALIS Roger! lol :-)

VAMOS RAFA!!!

Well Federer can sometimes be very straight-laced ;-)

bleck are you implying rafa is not?
Do you know something you hold back for us about his preferance?

Rafa with his happy crackerlings could be the next fictie novel he is ghostwriting.
I bet he would lose half of his fandom on this site if he happens to come out like that.
I am a good reader of men so I would not be surprised if it turns out that way. Not that there is anything wrong with it. Look at the male bonding that the Serbain team is doing leading up to DC meetings.

Sienna, lol ;)

Good luck Rafa - hope you have a great match. Vamos ............

You are a good reader of men then, Sienna? What do you make of Federer's usage of cosmetics, carrying a big fat purse on to court, dressing up like an extra from Bruno's before the Wimbledon final(to quote Peter Bodo), wearing gold in his shoes, tossing his hair about constantly, his carefully measured "strutting peacock" walk, his constant urge to cry, and his celebration after winning the Olympics? :D

Hello TTfans,

The match will start at about 1:40 AM but I can watch it now having supersannuated last month and no need to wake up tomorrow.

Now RAFA's accuracy has dipped exactly the way of ROGER's. Their matches have become more competetive now. I still believe RAFA has always an edge over ROGER.

But ROGER is playing very well and he had some of the toughest losses this season and can pull one off depending upon which RAFA and wich ROGER turns up.

@samps

ha-ha-ha,
Move over Beckham, Roger is truly the `king` of the metrosexuals!

sanju - Nadal always has a chance against Fed, no matter how bad he is playing or how good Federer is playing. He simply matches up very well with Fed.

picking Fed, but it should be very close if Nadal is healthy. If he isn't healthy - blowout.

Fed being married is not an assurance that he is straight. Just look at how he flips his bangs. LOL!

Whether Rafa is healthy or not, it won't be a blow out in my opinion. Both are not impressive in their first match. Fed certainly not playing as well as in last year's WTF. Unless he can play like Murray at the Tokyo final, it won't be a blowout.

If Rafa is unfit, Fed wins. If Rafa is fit, 50:50 chances.

Can someone remove phoenix's cheap comment? This is a tennis site, and I'm sure it doesn't reflect TennisTalk in very good light,

Can someone please tell me the permutations on today's matches (not you sienna, I'm sure you don't know what permutations means)? i.e. who goes thru to the semis between Roger and Rafa?

rafaisthebest, not sure what you mean by permutations in this case (I have a math degree).

From the atp website:

Singles Group B qualification scenarios after the completion of the 1st round of the event's group stage:

R. NADAL qualifies on Tuesday if either of the following occurs:
- R. NADAL defeats R. FEDERER in 2 sets.
- R. NADAL defeats R. FEDERER and M. FISH defeats J. TSONGA.

R. FEDERER qualifies on Tuesday if either of the following occurs:
- R. FEDERER defeats R. NADAL in 2 sets.
- R. FEDERER defeats R. NADAL and J. TSONGA defeats M. FISH.

thanks bleck, your maths degree is useful after all! So Tsonga wins and all Fed has to do is win and he's through................

Even the gods are Swiss.........................sigh..........

It was never in discussion about who would win the match. From the 1st match it was obvious tsonga was playing less badly than fish. lol

Lol...Tsonga delivered gift to Fed in that last game... with rose ribbon on top...
DW...UEs... unbelievable meltdown and choking ...

Lol...Tsonga delivered gift to Fed in that last game... with rose ribbon on top...

yes nitwit he just blow out Fish which means Fed would be qualified if he wins tonight. That was the gift.

bleck..If Rafa beats Fed today in straight or if Fed beats Rafa in straights today, it means they qualify irrespective of what happens on Thursday?

What if Rafa beats Fed in straights today and loses to Tsonga in straights/3 sets on THursday or if Fed beats Rafa in straights today and loses to Fish (haha I cant stop laughing but still have to ask) on Thursday?

The match says it all Sienna. No need trying to prove our point anymore. NNY and luckystar were totally against the idea that tsonga was better than fish in the 1st match. They were wrong.

I think its really not that easy depending on todays match only..Suppose Rafa beats Fed today and loses to Tsonga on THursday OR Fed loses to Rafa today and beats Fish on THursday..or if Rafa loses to Fed today but beats Tsonga on Thursday they each will have 2 wins/out of 3..wont it then boil down to % sets won/number of games won in that order

It surely is not clinched just with todays win

Can anyone help solve this?

sanju, yes no matter what happens thursday if nadal wins in straights he qualifies. If federer wins he qualifies (given that tsonga won against fish).

There are a lot of scenarios that could play out. Maybe I'll try and explain it later but now I'm busy. sorry.

Sanju a lot of it is not really very solvable, because its based on predictions.
It will also drive you a little crazy if you `overextrapolate`, more information is required.
Once Roger & Rafa do their thing we shall have a clearer idea of what everyone needs to do.
Sets and Games as well as matches can come into play as you say. But i think its a pretty safe bet that whoever wins tonight is going through unless tsonga can flatten Nadal in straight sets. Or Fish can do this to federer, less likely i would say.

Thinking about it better I think it's not a lock yet that nadal will get to the semis if he wins in straights.

But the info I posted came from the atp website.

Let's wait until after the match.

bleck, why are you insisting that I said Fish was better than Tsonga in their first match? In fact I said the opposite, and that's why I said Tsonga had every chance of beating Fed, more so than Fish to beat Rafa. You seriously lack reading and understanding abilities!

You're the one who disagree with me, saying that Tsonga has no chance, and incredibly believed that Fish was closer to beating Rafa than Tsonga was to Fed. Just watched how Tsonga came up with all the big serves to hold his own service game and only choked in the last game while serving to stay in the match. Fish on the other hand can't even capitalize on the fact that Rafa was ill and struggling, and was promptly broken back by Rafa in the third set and doing catch up most of the time and played a poor tie breaker. How can he be better than Tsonga?

The only thing is, Tsonga did choke big time in the very last game and choked away the match, that's all I'm saying.

NNY..whats latest on Rafa and his health?

DanyalRasool,

your disgust would have been sincere if you did not choose to gloss over the post of 11/22/11 1:57 PM

well it is not called choken if you loos serve at 4-5 down in decider!
returning a break back with four unforced errors after just gone up a break in decider i called choken. and thats what Fish did.
besides the level of play by rafa and fish wasbelo or subzero par.
Tsonga made 1 unforced error in the third...

Federer only has to win, does not matter how

Nadal has to win in straights in order to qualify today

Come on Rafa, do it for Andy!

bleck,

I am really getting tired of reading your comments telling everyone that luckystar and myself are wrong. You need a reality check. No one here is any more knowledgeable or smart or innately right about tennis than anyone else.

You can't say that you were being "ironic" with that comment about both of us being wrong. It's beginning to get tiresome and boring.

As far as Danyal Rasool's comment, I agree with phoenix that this person conveniently skipped over previous comments that were equally inflammatory.

sanju - I just checked on vamosbrigade and they said SKY in the UK said that Rafa was better but tired. I didn't even want to post anything, because we know what we are going to hear from Fed fans - excuses. Rafa will not make any excuses should he lose.

Just sit back, relax and enjoy this match! It should be a good one!

Sienna, whichever way you want to put it, Tsonga did choke big time in the last game while serving to stay in the match, for he was serving big in his previous games to hold serve but failed to do so in that last game because he was nervous and choke!

Did Fish choke? Of course, it's just that he still managed to get to the tie breaker.

Obviously, Roger does not like being World No 4 so he was introduced as the 5 times year end world No 1. Which is fair enough, because with such a legacy his current ranking is incidental.

"No one here is any more knowledgeable or smart or innately right about tennis than anyone else."

definitely not true, LOL. There are some people on here who know very little about tennis.

1-1

Good quality so far.

Both seem nervous..:-) Feds serve clicking

Ricky,

That will only serve to give some people delusions of grandeur. I assume you are not naming names! :)

tennis

crowd is pro-Roger today.

Rafa looking at 3 bps.

break for Roger..first set Roger

Rafa again very slow today :-)

tennis?

ricky, that's not what these chains of posts are about...

Roger bossing Rafa on court

Nadal looks extremely sluggish. And federer isnt shanking.

Yes rafa looks slow and sluggish..horribly slow

deuce..what do you make of Mirka today ? :-)

Roger serving well.

First set Roger 6-3..tough for Rafa now..Roger seems to be on song and is not making many UE either

good stuff from Roger, no hesitation on hitting the ball not at all

its over now..Rafa break down in 2nd..This is Miami repeat ..Roger repaying the favour back to Rafa

Amazing forehands from Federer. Rafa is still looking quite sick.

Disappointing to watch Nadal like this

Horrible..this is a blowout..I dont think if Rafa suffers such a blowout at hands of Roger he has any chance to qualify for semis even if he beats Tsonga in straights

Rafa pinned down, utterly helpless.

Worst I've seen nadal hot his backhand in about 4 years. Federer deserves the win but nasal's form is diabolical.

Rafas given up anyway..hes not even moving

He will lose to Tsonga playing this way. Its amazing to see Nadal like this, no answers at all.

Not to take anything away from Fed. His feel looks pristine out there

federer too hot to handle

that's it folks, it's done. It's not really Nadal's Play but u have to admit that Roger is playing perfect. check out the numbers!

this is like a Federer-Roddick match

Yes though Rfa is being humiliated (I think first time in years by Fed)..Fed deserves the win for sheer class masterful act

I could see this coming judging by the way Rafa played his first match...but still, it's painful to watch this...Fed is brilliant though..

This is 2009 WTF repeat..

Hi,

All of you eat crow meat.

I hope, this being is the fitting response of the Swiss Maestro to Nadal and it proves once more that Nadal is nothing but a clay court specialist!

It's so funny to see some people already started considering his name in the list of GOAT! Trying to guess what Nadals excuse should be tomorrow? A stomach set up or bad knees? :))

God is it gonna be a bagel? 6-3, 6-0..Jez

Roger cant put a foot wrong and Rafa cant do anything right.

@solitudine you seem to forget a 6 1 6 3 6 0 in a gs final, players have bad days.

okay so coz this bad loss..Rafas now a clay court specialist..the 4 slams won outside clay 9beating Fed in 2 of them n Djoko in one) doesnt count

God all the trolls are out to rub it in bow..lol

No I don't want it. Nadal break please.

Yes a clay court specialist....who's managed to win 2 wimbledons, 1 australian open, 1 us open, and an olympic gold medal

A Bagel would be the best treatment for Nadal in the World Tour Finals! That is all he deserves..

He is lucky that he took out 3 games in the first set! He should rejoice that. There are better players sitting out of the top 8, who deserves a spot instead of rotten Nadal. Hope he gets going for good from the top 8 in the world soon!

6 0 sets have only been there on 2 occasions in entire nadal federer rivalry in hamburg (07 clay federer won) and RG final (08 clay nadal won)

solitude are you saying that a single match can affect a players status as the GOAT? Do you remember the 2008 french open final or miami this year. Get a grip you redundant idiot.

oh the hatres spewing troll is back

Rafans..ignore the hatred spewing troll solitudine

I'm speechless. Rafa can't be fully fit.

solitudine - s-o iau pe ma-ta

Take away the Clay courts achievements out of Nadal's repertoire and then try to see where he stands in the world of Tennis. And then see how many other names are coming around.

Nadal is simply a very good clay court specialist, who by chance made some ripples in some other tournaments too, which some others like Ferrerro, Kuerten or Costa couldn't do that effectively.

Cheryl will you please tell Kelli how to enjoy sex without wearing hmmm condoms!

Well Rafa refused to celebrate after humilitaing Roger in RG 08

Roger is again very subdued in victory as he knows Rafas feeling humiliated on court

This is respect between 2..when 2 great players show so much respect..hope the hatred spewing trolls learn sumthing from it who come out of their holes to give a glimpse of their own sorrowful life

Rafans..ignore the trolls like solitudine and many others who will come out of their freaking holes now..That is best treatment they deserve

But I ma sure most of you will reply and will give them importance..Please try not to reply at all.They will shut up themselves

solitudine, where do you hide when Rafa is on a high?

nadline..dont you know cowards behave exactly like that- not face adversities heads on or engage in discussions but only come out when chips are down for others to rub salt..? Why are u even bothering talking to the losers?

solitude if you take away the achievement of trolling on tennis blog sites from your life what would you have left? A very sad, bitter and lonely life, a relationship with your hand and no friends. Well done solitude, good game, good game... idiot

Please sanju and all, don't be so angry at me. I never called you troll and all. Like you always express yourself about your favorite players, I was expressing my views.
We don't have personal enmity, right? So, please take it easy and relax. Sports is meant to unite people and not to create rift among fans and followers.
Stay calm and enjoy the game.

Cheers!

MWHUUHAHAHAHAAAAA

bagle time.........

I couldnot see the match please can you tell me what happened?

The O2 is going to hold bad memories forever for Rafa :-(

That was THE definitive match by Roger - a flawless performance. And by far the worst showing from Rafa in any match between them that I've ever watched.

Bleck: I think you can skip watching the rest of the matches and just fast forward to the presentation ceremony. Again.

Deuce: Monday night was nothing to the agony of this evening. Too shell shocked to even cry. Just as well as you've used up all the tissues.

I think Rafa knew he wasn't well enough to win tonight because in his pre match interview he said that if he didn't win tonight he still had a chance to qualify on Thursday.

no matter what, whether Rafa felt sick or not, with this Fed it would really make no difference..I see Fed's game more than amazing at the moment...I want to congratulate his fans...they sure have something to look forward to...as far as Rafans go...well, not much to be happy about this whole year and why would the end of 2011 be any different...though we still have Davis CUP to hope for...

i am happy that roger didn't celebrate much !!

bcoz i have seen some TOP player becomes mad after beating Rafa.. isn't it??

solitudine,

You look like a very scincereable and knowledge poster. Please try to give a summing of tonights match?

Calm down Fedtards, it's only a round robin win, albeit a big obe for Roger, well done. I mean, how many more is he going to have, seriously? And Roger knows this, hence the subdued celebrations. I wish some of his fans were as smart as he is. Take nothing away from Roger, he played sublime tennis, deserves to be in the semis and to be the outright fav for the tourny.

Now, let's look at the situation in a more er.....calm manner. I don't think there was anything wrong with Rafa, Roger was simply too good. In which case, Rafa's calculation was, conserve my energy for the match against Tsonga and go all out to win that and go through. Remember folks, that is the immediate objective, to reach the semis. Roger was always the favourite to win this match and given the circumstances, why fight?

I could be wrong of course and Rafa is still feeling the effects of his malady, coupled with playing a red hot Fed, no contest.

I prefer to believe my former theory at the moment.

Of course for the Fedfans its Christmas and birthday treats served all at once, enjoy!

Vamos!!!!!

Not to worry about the trolls. The trolls seem to forget who beat the 'Goat' in those grass and hard court slams, reducing the 'Goat' to tears. Anyway winning three games in two sets is still better than winning four games in three straight sets in a slam final. See, if we want to dig further, this will become a troll filled thread.

Well Fed is displaying master class indoor hard court tennis here. I didn't see him do so well on an outdoor hard court, not against Rafa that's for sure. Rafa as usual throughout this season, except maybe IW and Miami, is playing more defensive tennis, allowing his opponents to push him around the court and dictate play. We've seen this played out many times, not helped by his backhand that sucks so often this season.

Well I don't expect Rafa to go far this tournament, so after DC, please go back and practise that serve, ROS and that backhand (which has become a liability these days). Two things I noticed about Rafa these days, other than the usual serve/ROS stuff, his shots are lacking in power, precision and pace. Also, he looks out of breath or is breathing heavily after some rallies. Not sure why, lack of fitness maybe, for whatever reasons.

scincere and knowledgable I believe.... adrenaline is still pumping after watching the score.

I believe I was expecting to pass through in straights comfortably ,but I wasn't expecting him to be that damn good.
my guess it will be Roger vs Dojoko or Tsonga in the final.

No Sienna,
This Blog seems to be crowded with some fanatical Nadal fans, who uses rough and often insulting words, everytime I try to stress that Nadal is a clay court specialist and just an ordinary being when it comes to all round tennis. They can even go to kill me for saying that, while in some other forums harder words had been said about Nadal.

Anyway, great to see you liked the Bagel score. Wish you all the best and for the World Tour Finals too!

^^^^^^^true, Rafa's backhand is truly worrying and I also noticed the heavy breathing....................hmmmmm

natashao
I would not go as far as saying that there was not much to be happy about this whole year. Yes, the early months were sad with the flue and the ensuing injury etc. Yes, losing to Novak repeatedly was really hard. Yes, compared to his 2010 and 2008 years this was not a very good year. But almost any top tennis player would be happy with all the achievements he's had nonetheless. A few titles including a 6th RG, many finals. And many hard-fought victories even when not doing too well.

I really do not feel too bad about this loss, at all. I want to hear what Rafa has to say about it before I write-off his prospects of progressing to the next round...............

And congratulations to Roger and his fans. I didn't see the match but by all accounts he is soaring at the heights of tennis at the moment.

YEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS Sport 1 is just starting the rerun of tonights match.........n LONDON CALLING PPAPAPAPAAAAAM{pam

Clearly Nadal was not his normal self. Nonetheless if someone shows up to court you have to assume they are well enough to play.
Fed played near his best (for a guy 30+ years old) and if Nadal was healthy, he probably would have still lost, I think, as Fed was taking his backhands early and driving them. Everyone who scoffs at the single handed backhand can take note of what happens when you play on a low bounce surface. Suddenly the strategy 'hit to fed's backhand all the time' is not so effective.

is rafa now out?

Someone please respond to sienna, I can't be bothered.................

The question you all should ask is.

Where does he get the nerve to show up for the 5th biggest tournement totally unprepaired and not fit to play?Or is the decline of Rafa so strong that we can meassure it month by month?

Talking about SHBH, I don't see Rafa hitting much to the backhands of Gasquet, Almagro and Youzhny. Instead he attacks their forehands more. To him, Fed's backhand is still the weaker wing. The strategy still works on outdoor hard courts. What Rafa has to do is to step inside the court more often instead of staying so far beind the baseline, that way he'll put pressure on Fed's backhand and cut off some angle that he can now create. It's Rafa's court position that sucks this season, he's playing only 13% inside the court this match, compared to Fed's 30+%, how to dictate play and win points like that?

Cheryl,

Please note the vulgar and offensive comment directed at Kelli by newfangkc @ 10:19 pm. Disgusting and inexcusable.

No problem congratulating Fed on this win. Well done!

Solitudine is a troll who has come out to make inflammatory comments that have nothing to do with tennis. Sad to see someone like that.

I know rafaisnot, but he needs to perform against Tsonga the choker. HAHA let see if Tsonga chokes.

I agree that any OTHER player would be pleased with the results of 2011 and any OTHER fan but not Rafa and not his fans...losing all those finals and being bageled by top players is not easy to forget...I don't think I really want Rafa to reach semis in the condition like this and then suffer another terrible loss to Nole...with the game and fitness issues that he displays at the moment he stands no chance against Nole and it will only add to his already long list of losses...if this was a year before I would probably contradict this statement by saying that Rafa would sure fight for the win at no cost...however, this year I somehow do not see his fighting spirit...at some point in today?s match I thought Rafa only wanted to get it over with and disappear from the court...

1-0 Fed Wow really dictating from the get go.

This is the only match Fed has won against Rafa this year, no?

Solitudine,

You won't then mind me saying that federer won his first 7 grand slams in a very weak era of tennis (roddick/hewitt). Therefore these titles are irrelevant and he should only have 9 grand slams titles counted and therefore be inferior to nadal in terms of legacy.

That is complete sh*t and on par with the nonsensical rubbish speculation and ignorance that you have brought to the discussion tonight.

the match took 1 hr and 1 minute? wow is that a record for a FEDAL?

Wow! Congrats to Fed and all his fans, much life in the "old man" still!
Many commiserations to Rafa's fans on this site. Andy's fans know just what a bad day at the office feels like, and it feels bad!
ed yes, all tissues used up but the sofa has loose covers, very useful for blowing noses, wiping eyes etc
sanju, Mirka? I never commented about her and I wouldn't.

Well natashao, maybe Rafa has limited energy at this late part of the season, so he has to conserve it and use it wisely. If this tournament is at the beginning of the season, we may see a different Rafa. He still has the DC to play, don't forget. This year his fitness is certainly not in tip top condition, and he has already played 80 matches so far, more than anyone else. Cut him some slacks. Dont expect too much from him in this tournament, come DC, he should be all firing up, as that is really the last tournament for him this season before going for a good rest.

the issue is he should not have felt this tired in the first place...he had a good rest and I expected him to be fit...well, I am very disappointed at the moment but I will live...I love Rafa no matter what...he is my favorite person and I will always support him...I want to think there will be plenty to be happy about Rafa in the future and I will wait for that moment to come...Vamos Rafa!

my god.... Fed breaks 4-2 on love... woewhaaa

How you like them aples?

Rafa face is as red as the tomato fish dod not sguash

I hope Rafa somehow finds a way to win the Tsonga match. Hope he gets a shot at atleast making it to the finals again this year. Maybe he sets a record at finals reached and lost in a year. Can someone take alook at that one? It would not be a positive record but still it would count as a record.

set Federer 6-3.... just kidding fellow TT posters......

Where is the match report? Or are you waiting untill my rerun is done?

Please let Ricky do the report in this match/

It was the third time Federer had won a 6-0 set against Nadal in 26 meetings (also 2006 Wimbledon and 2007 Hamburg). Nadal recorded a 6-0 set over Federer in the 2008 Roland Garros final.

ontherise the ridle is solved.
http://blogs.tennis.com/racquet_reaction/2011/11/london-feder er-d-nadal.html

take a look at this match report and you know that from now on the FEDAL will be dominated by 1 man. I promise you he'll get the Garros final next year over Rafa.

This is a pivital match between them. From now on ot will be TMF all the wauy between them two... The million dollar queation is does Rafa reach the final?

natashao, Rafa may have his reasons for looking so lack lustre. His fighting spirit won't disappear just like that, judging from how he handled Fish earlier on. There are always ups and downs in one's career and also within a season itself. Don't forget he's dealing with a Fed who came ready and played sublime tennis, note that Fed did not have his usual second set lapses today, as Fed knew who he was playing against and therefore did not allow himself to take a foot of the pedal during the match.

Unless Rafa suffered from some serious injuries going forward, I think he won't give up his tennis career, and so we'll see him continue to work hard to improve. And yes, he needs all the improvements after seeing how his game falls apart and most of his weapons getting blunt this year. His warrior spirit should still be intact and will manifest itself again when he's ready and prepared to fight out there.

Rome 2006 was a important match. If Fed would have won that match there matchup would have changed for ever. Probably would have given FED the convidence to beat Rafa st Garros that year.This is the match that will give him the edge.... They have seen it in the eyes. They looked at eachother and knew from on it is gonna be different. Rafa knows it and more importantly FED knows it.

THIS IS A BIG BIG WIN FOR TMF, no matter what happens next in this tournement.

To sienna I've to say: fat hope!

Do remember their H2H this year is 3-1, three on outdoor courts and one on indoor court. No indication that Fed will play this way on the outdoor courts. His 2010 WTF form vs his early 2011 form may be a good reference point. Oh, not forgetting they may not meet in finals but in semifinals instead; they're no longer no.1&2 but no. 2 & 4.

Dutch commentator... It is hard, very hard but Nadal gets a tennislesson from the best player ever.
He hasnot played this well since ages.

I agree. This match has nothint to do with Nadal not being ready or injured, but Fe dhas the upperhand .

luckystar it is over. Nadal had a great run againt the mighty/ But he was rested and trained and he lst biggie biggie biggie big time......... (that is a Suriname thing biggie jarie)

Luckystar You said it yourself... Fed is not as good indoor as in 2010! You clearly said that multiple times! You did say that didnt you?

What about them apples you saw tonight?

What a scoreline...

@ NNY- Thank you for looking out for me. Worry not though, the comment wasn't designed to disgust or wound.

I once wrote a blog where I included a quote from a special Argentine player I met, who said that "watching Federer win everything is (similar) to having sex w/ a condom."

Took me a minute to wrap my brain around the reference, but I'm guessing its unearthing was inspired by the bagel Roger fed Rafa tonight. :D

Is Roger becoming an indoor specialist?

sienna, I still maintained that he's better last year than this year. Sienna, as a Fed fan, you seemed to forget how good Fed was last year, from start to finish, dropping only one set, to Rafa in the final. And the Rafa of this year is no where near the Rafa of last year. Shame on you sienna, Fed and his usual second set lapses this year may continue and here you are saying he's as good as his last year WTF?

Wow I have seen the match and I am stunned.
This is not about stomachpain or rested or bagel or indor or clay this is about belief and seeing things happening.
It did tonight you all had the chance to watch it.
Not ever there was a match between two fit Fedals to be this coclusive. Even the 2008 final at garros was not look at how nany breakpoints fed get? 17? and did npot take 1. That match was nowhere near this match... this is a pivital (is that a good word) match between them,.

I can see I am up to something Luckystar. Because you are replying to fast to my statements. It must have triggered something inside you and I assume it is the thruth.
But please look at thios match up and the n see this match indoor or outdoor. No single time not once Fed has played Nadal and completelu humiliated the Spaniard. Last year was a match that with some immaginationcould be pulled out of the fire by Rafa. He didnot do that. but tonight was may be the first time Rafa was in utter utter disbelief about the outcome. And that really has nothing to do with indoor outdoor clay gras or DC or slam but it happenend befor our eyes.

Only you think so sienna, this is a best of three sets match, how do you compare this to a slam final? And btw, a lack lustre Rafa still beats Fed 75% of the times they meet this year, don't see much changes to this going forward.

And what blockbuster? Nowadays when these two meet, it's no longer blockbuster. How about Miami SF this year? It seems matches on outdoor or indoor hard courts are lopsided, outdoors favor Rafa and indoor favors Fed. It's the matches on clay between these two that get more competitive, and still Rafa prevails as usual.

oh and luckystar....

he just won Paris masters.... He just inhilated Rafa.. I would say he is better then last year WTF....

He is just getting started and his prep for 2012 is getting a real boost... Be wairy ver carefull what you have seen tonight

The sad thing is that this was an eagerly anticipated confrontation which failed to live up to expectations because Rafa was unable to raise his level to make it a match for an on-fire Roger.

I am speaking from a spectator's point of view. Fedfans and Rafans will see it differently.

I know why you keep bringing that nonsense up. but you are weary because otherwise you would not have talked this way.

I know you know tennis but you hate Federer for some reason. We (both of us) have seen it in the eyes. We (both of us) know it is true
They saw in eachothers eyes and we could all witness it. Just admit that the match up has turned.

What are you talking about? I'm going to catch up on my sleep now. Happy gloating.

Thank you for acknowleging that fact by youre response. it is clear for all of us to see and understand.

14 matches and counting. Please Roger let's head into 2012 with a 17 match winning streak.

A couple of weaks ago before basel started I worte a post in which I said how exciting it was that almost every tournament Roger was playing he was playing to break or equal a record. Of course a lot of tards, I mean posters, tried to put me down.

So far:
Basel - 5th title - record
Paris - 1st title - first player to reach the finals in all masters 1000 - record and player with the most hardcourt titles (47) - record

What's to come:
WTF - possible 6th title - record
AO - possible 5ht title - record
IW - possible 19th masters title - equalling record
...

Great match Roger. A joy to watch. There's a little fish for you to reel in next thursday, it shouldn't be a problem.

People Luckystar has seen it. He is scared of Fed for Nadal.
He hopes Nadal will lose the next match because there could be another final against Federer. What wiould happen there with the new confidence of Federer.

I can only hope Rafa can beat Tsonga to meat Fe din the final/

bleck I am looking forward to a semi or final Fedal.....

What we have seen tonight echoes through eternity ;-) In the eyes we have seen the future of their respective rivalry a bit late for the mighty but it has been noticed.

Imeant to say of course a FEDAL semi or final at Garros.....

Wow what a performance! TMF is in TMF house! Roger had that look in his eye like in Bercy against Berdych. He wanted that bagel and he took it.

Rafa only had 7 UE so he didn't give Roger that match. Roger won it with 28 winners. That is how tennis is meant to be played. Nobody does it better.

Kelli,

Thanks for your reply. It's good to know that it was referencing something you said in one of your blogs.

It's almost funny reading these comments from the Fed fans. But I do understand, because they haven't had much to cheer about this year. Hope springs eternal. They would love to bury Rafa and be done with him. I get that, too.

One match does not change history, unfortunately. But it's all right for them to gloat now. It's what they do. They now believe that Fed is back for good and Rafa, Nole and Murray will all just roll over for him.

This is the first time Fed has beaten Rafa this year, so I expected a celebration. They are getting more grandiose with their predictions, so I will leave them to their dreams.

Rafa will live to fight another day! :)

If Sienna said that Roger is better than last year.... probably true but absolutely Rafa is not at his best and Roger said that in the after match interview. Players are always up and down.... Nobody play their best all the time... Not Nadal Not Federer Not Djoko.... In my opinion Nadal at his best vs Fed at his best on clay, Nadal wins.... Grass, Nadal.. our door hardcourt 50-50, in door hardcourt Federer.... Djoko got bageled, Federer also lost 36 26 06 in French Open 08, same thing happened to Nadal.... Vamos Rafa, we know you will always comeback stronger...

And please don't talk about Rafa got humiliated.... because one of the biggest humiliation happened in tennis when Federer lost at Ausie 09 not because of the lost but the cry....

teddylds,

Don't let yourself get upset by the Fed fans. This is what happens when he beats Rafa. It doesn't happen that often, so when it does and when it is one-sided, expect them to go a little crazy in their celebration.

We should take our cue from Rafa. He made no excuses, gave Fed full credit for being too good today. So we need to follow his example, be it in victory or defeat. This is one match on one day. Rafa will come back and have his success. He is not done.

The one thing we don't ever want to do is act like the Fed fans when our guy wins. We cannot control their behavior, only our own. Rafa had a blowout victory over Fed in Miami earlier this year. No bagel, but still a very one-sided win. Did it mean that Fed was done, through for good? Of course not! So we should view this match in the same way.

I have been watching tennis all my life. I have seen so many of the greatest champions that ever played in this sport. I know that one match does not change everything. One match does not portend the future. So it is with this one. This is Fed's time of year, when he does very well. This is an ideal surface for his game and he has come back fresh and playing great tennis.

Rafa will have his time, too. We have DC to look forward to before the year ends. He is a great champion and is not going anywhere. You can't blame the Fed fans for wanting him gone. He has had so many great wins over Fed.

You notice that the Rafa fans have left. They knew what to expect. So cheer up and look to the future. There are good things ahead for Rafa in 2012!

Kelli,

Many thanks for the rejoinder and NNY does not know of his past dig at Roger winning everything. I would ask him to read what a cabdriver told Late Joyhn Foster Dalas of New York Times once about Him. Anyway I am too old to make fun here in TT of any of the posters. I enjoy all posts the veg, nonveg and the venomous. What I don't enjoy is the mud some sling at others.

We are here for the game that we love so much and it does not matter who wins.

Thanks NNY... you are absolutely right...

John Foster Walace!

I stepped away to go for my sleep, wakes up, come back here and I see sienna saying I'm scared that Rafa will meet Fed again! You sure, sienna?

If Rafa is to meet Fed again, that's good news as that means Rafa is into another final of the WTF, and also he would have gained 800 ranking points. I'm sure in the final, Rafa will play a bit better than today, as he should have more match play under his belt by then and also knows what to expect from Fed. Win or loss, it's not as bad as losing to Nole again. In fact sienna, right now I'm more worried about Nole vs Rafa than Fed vs Rafa to be honest.

However it's unlikely for Rafa to reach the semi, he has to beat Tsonga in straight sets to have a chance, not going to happen, judging from how Rafa played so far and Tsonga looks determined to reach the semifinal. Rafa just has to finish his rounds and prepare for the DC final which is next week. He needs to be in his best conditions against the Argentines in the DC final.

Oops wrong, Rafa vs Tsonga, whoever wins will reach the semifinal. Most likely it's Tsonga, judging from the way Rafa played.

lucky, Rafa simply has to win, even if he drops a set against Tsonga he goes through as second best in the Group (Fed is going to beat Mardy)..................i.e. Rafa will have recorded 2 wins against Tsonga's 1; Mardy is out even if he beats Fed (not happening); Fed is though.........

Some snippets of Rafa's post match interview:

"I have to accept it, congratulate him because he played really well," Nadal, who had won 17 of their previous 25 encounters but was comprehensively outplayed on this occasion, told reporters.

"It's not the moment to say goodbye. It's not the moment to go down. It's the moment to keep fighting. I'm still in the tournament. I still have the chance to be in the semi-finals because if I win the next match I will be in semi-finals.

So it's the moment to keep fighting with a positive attitude and it's the moment to accept when Roger plays like this he is better than me, and that's it."

"I had to work a lot yesterday on the recovery on the shoulder. Seriously yesterday I didn't know if I was going to be ready to play today," he said.

"It didn't affect my match today because I felt perfect today. At the same time, for me it's a positive day today because I played without problems and I can still play and continue in the tournament and I can still have chance."

Glad to hear him say he felt perfect. As he said, Roger was playing other-worldly tennis last night.

As long as Rafa is 100% physically, fear not Rafans...............

I have a positive feeling about his match with Tsonga, Rafa will win, I GUARANTEE THAT!

RITB, whether he'll beat TSonga or not, I couldn't help but feel that Rafa keeps saying he'll keep fighting but when in the match I sometimes failed to see him fighting. Real fighting in the Fed match is move up the court, take the ball on and not wait for the ball to come to him, cut off the angle by moving inside the court and not allow Fed to hit to the corners as he pleased. He's not serving well especially out wide and that put lots of pressure on his own service game, that I understand but where's the varieties in his serves. In fact prior to his USO 2010, his serve was alright and came with more varieties.

His game has regressed quite a bit, not helped when he has to deal with illness and injuries all year round, first the thigh injury, then the foot and now the shoulder. Perhaps he should look at how he played at IW and Miami, shorten the points, come to the net and be more aggressive. Like what Fed said: ' he (Fed) can still play even with some injuries as he always look to play offensive tennis'. Rafa should do the same and shorten the points to save his body, especially when he's being plagued with all these injuries here and there.

I love the way he played at the TMC 2006 semifinal, even though he lost to Fed then, he played some aggressive tennis, hitting his forehand flat and deep, unlike what we saw now from him.

Rafa v/s TSonga - Its 50-50.on current form on paper it should be Tsonga..but Tsonga is blow hot blow cold..he can dig hs own grave..I can never ever count on Tsonga or MOnfils for consistency

Even if Rafa beats Tsonga..he will likely play Djoko in the semis..he cant beat Djoko for sure playng like this..SEmis is max hell go to..Well by stroke of luck if its Ferrer who tops the group..then maybe he can reach the final

Even Fed v/s Djoko I give Fed the edge

Its ok if he lost, what is worrying me is his body language on court, the lack of precision n sting on his shots and the running out of gas/feeling tired/out of breath and worse is the warrior like fighting spirit..Its these 4 qualities that won him matches and he seems to have demonstrated not showcasing them multiple times this year

Wimby final - got intimidated by Djoko
US Open final.. surrendered 4th set, had nothing left
RR WTF : Didnt even offer a fight to Fed
Japan final: Last set was a shocker with Murray

The IW, Miami, Rome, Madrid finals he lost to Nole..atleast were very competitive even though Mdrid n Rome were straights, for a straight set match it lasted 2 hours and had lot of rallies

I really am clueless what to expect from Rafa in 2012..I can only hope for the best for him..

sanju, I've a feeling his injury issues this year have affected his confidence in his own game, on top of that, the defeats at the hands of Nole. I've never seen his backhand being so bad before this year, spraying it all over the place. His confidence barometer, ie his DTL forehand, are rare these days, an indication that he's lacking in confidence. He only exercise his fighting spirit against lower ranked opponents these days, ie those non top four guys. I noticed the same pattern at Tokyo, he fought hard against Fish and Giraldo but up against Murray, he stopped pushing himself in the second and third sets. In fact the second and third sets pent out the same way as this match against Fed. He fought in the second set there, lost it, and became clueless in the third set and got bageled there, very similar to how he played here against Fed. It's like he knew he can't beat them, so he's not going to push himself hard and ran the risk of am injury, knowing he still had Shanghai then, and DC now, to play for.

Not to take anything away from both Murray and Fed, they both played out of this world tennis and so Rafa playing the way he played had no chance of winning.

Very very pleased with this win.
Hope he can sustain this level for the slams ahead.

Still require more effort/strategy to topple top2 guys in slams.

@Sabs, well said. It was a gr8 match from Fed to watch... even though against Nadal it comes once in a while... :-( I liked Fed's subdued reaction (kind of respect to Nadal)... and his on-court interview where he joked..."I have at least one surface that go with my kind of play..."... All the best for Nadal against Tsonga who on song can trouble Nadal...

Only solace is in 2009 though Rafa dominated first 5 months of year with 5 titles Rafa didnt beat any Top 10 player after his RG 09 loss in JUne and this continued till March 2010..it was a good 11 months without a title and a good 9-10 months of no win against a Top 10

Situation in 2011 is much better though . I can only hope he is back to winning ways in 2012 and gets his mojo, confidence back. Playing only 13% of shots inside baseline is bad

Lucky - Can you tell me why doesn't he play on thr baseline or inside it and stays far behind..what is difficult about it? Its not like hell forget it stepping on the court

Sanju, I also don't know why. My guess is he's very comfortable playing his clay court game, so when confidence is low, he'll revert back to his clay court tennis style. We see he can play aggressively, like in Miami for example, it's just that he has to be confident to do so. When he plays aggressively, he can beat many players, even the top four on the hard courts. Fed had to play light out tennis to beat Rafa on indoor hard courts, any lapses Rafa will capitalize.

Rafa seemed to be a bit rusty this tournament and he did not go all out yesterday when he knew once his serves failed him, he won't be able to beat Fed, more so when Fed was playing like that. I feel that against lower ranked opponents, Rafa will fight to win, maybe for his pride or just to maintain his aura, at least towards the lesser opponents. I have to say if Rafa fights, he still can beat Tsonga, who is an inconsistent player.

sanju, don't worry too much, Rafa obviously still cares about his tennis. Like I said to natashao, his fighting spirit is still intact, he just has to pick and choose when to fight harder and when not to, to manage both his energy and his body, not running the risk of injuring himself.

Well in atpworldtour he said he had to work a lot on his shoulder on Monday..maybe tahts why serves were flat and didnt work yesterday..though he did say he felt no issue with his shoulder during the match..

"Bleck: I think you can skip watching the rest of the matches and just fast forward to the presentation ceremony. Again.", ed

At least let me enjoy a couple more matches before the 2011 season ends. lol

luckystar
, 11/23/11 5:28 AM

It is clear something is not right with Rafa, has not been for a while. What it is, we don't know, we can only speculate. Another poster mentioned that he/she feels there is something not right in Rafa's off-court life....................I have had the same nagging feeling for a long time!

There is clearly some inner turmoil going on there........................

Rafa is not serving well these days and then he is not attacking. Also his UE is almost touching Roger. He will bounce back very soon. He is too talented to lie low for long. His losses to the Joker has had a toll on his confidence and he has burnt himself a bit too much. Need to program a recovery, rest, training match practice and booooooooom!

VAOS! I love him as much as I adore ROGER.

Rafa said he injured his left shoulder trying to push his serve in practice that's why he had to work so hard against Fish because he couldn't serve properly, yesterday he said he felt good, but I am sure he doesn't want to look as if he is making excuses for losing so badly to Roger.

He's not been right all year ever since he got the flu in January followed by the leg injury. I hope he comes back refreshed next year. Tennis is not exciting without the Rafa factor.

newfangkc,

As you can see, Kelli was gracious in her response to me and thanked me for looking out for her. I don't like to see inappropriate language on the site, especially if it is directed at the people who work so hard to make this site a great place. She explained it all and that's fine. I don't have a photographic memory when it comes to every little thing that is said here.

Oh and for the record I am a she. I don't like to make fun of anyone for any reason.

Back to discussing Rafa.

I listened to Rafa's post-match press conference and there was a point where the media asked him if he was tired. They asked him twice and he told them - if I say anything, I going to lie you. I think Rafa was hurting but did not want to make any excuses. I think he is very sensitive to this business of him saying he was injured when he loses a match. He wanted to give Fed full credit for playing well and not take anything away from him.

However, something was off with his serve. I also didn't see him even going after some shots. It was like he didn't want to expend the energy and didn't feel he had a chance the way he was serving. This surface makes the balls bounce low and that always takes away the advantage from Rafa. It kind of negates the advantage Rafa has on other surfaces when he plays Fed. So he has to be really on top of his game and he wasn't in that match.

We will have to see if he is any sharper against Tsonga. If Tsonga is on his game then it could be tough. I really don't know what to expect at this point. It's up to Rafa to play better. I can see that he has abandoned his aggressive hard court game. He just does not move into the court or try to move into the net. I guess when he is not feeling confident and on a surface that has troubled him in the past, it's not going to happen. However, I really hope Rafa works on his game and implements some changes and improvements for 2012.