Nice groups. I hope Djokovic and Fish are fully fit so we can have a really competitive WTF!

^^^I second that.

Tsonga and Berdych are fully capable of upsetting the top guys. I doubt Fish ferrer will be able to.
So who is playing who first?

Tsonga - Fed Sunday,
I thought you banned yourself?

good groups

Fed vs. Tsonga should be on Monday

Its not rickyD unless you know about something not on the website,
Which states...
Fed/Tsonga afternoon session.
Nadal/Fish evening.
Monday afternoon Murray/Ferrer
Evening Novak/Berdych.
Voila!

i said it SHOULD be on Sunday. Didn't say it WAS.

Bad news for Fish.

Oopps my bad,
Yeah bad news for Fish.
Good news probably for Novak, possibly Andy however,
Maybe the bigger seeds got the bigger say (inc federer ofcourse, he likes to start first)?

Listen Sue,
I didnt noticed that the draw came out so early. You donot wnat me out with asll the fun in the preliminary rounds we are just entering? Maybe I reschedule the ban for a later date...

dont ban yourself Sienna,
And don't call me F%$*ing SUE.

Its great that Fed v/s Rafa wont meet in semis with this as they in same round robin group

Groups are equally balanced, however if Almargo and Janko enter it will be a pity (:-

Djoko/Fish have to be fit

It's great muzz and rafa won't meet in the r-r as fed won't simply have to show up against the last man standing after the slugfest this time.

groub B is slightly tougher than group A

alex,

A repeat of that scenario is theoretically possible. If Roger is first in his group and Andy is first in his group, Andy could still play Rafa in semis if Rafa comes second in his group. Then Roger would play who comes second in Andy's group in the other semi. It just depends how they do in RR.

Why does Rafa always end up with the tough one? I would have preferred Berdy and Ferrer in group B instead of Tsonga and Fish.

Really? . I wouldn't want Rafa facing Ferrer. He would wear him out. I read on a Rafa fan forum that he supposedly wanted Fed, Berdy and Fish in his group. Well, two out of three ain't bad! Tsonga would be a bad matchup on this surface. Rafa has the better all around game and the mental superiority, but if Tsonga plays well he could beat Rafa.

Rafa got a decent first match against Fish. He has not been playing well at all recently. I don't know if he is injured or fatigued, but his form has really dropped off.

I am also happy that Rafa is not in Murray's group again. They kill each other in these kinds of matches.

Honestly, I don't think there is a lot of room here for an ideal group. These guys are all there because they played well enough and accumulated the points. You can't expect an easy group, because there isn't one.

NNY..If Rafa doesnt prefer Tsonga its beter he faces him in RR than in semi right in case the face off has to happen.

I have said it over & over..It should be RAfa v/s Djoko in semi and Fed v/s Murray in other semi

The matches then will be equally balanced, equally tiring and parties in the final will be equally fatigued :-)

sanju,

I know people on other forums who actually take the time to post all of the scenarios as to how it could finish. It makes my head spin. But yes, I would rather see Rafa face Tsonga earlier than the semi.

Honestly, I don't think it would be easy no matter which group he was in. These guys all can play well. Berdy presents problems for Rafa, too. But Tsonga has the kind of game that can trouble Rafa, especially on these indoor hard courts.

I have to say that I don't know if I want Rafa to face Djoko in the semis. I don't know if he has gotten those six losses out of his head yet. Who knows. Maybe it would be best for him to confront this man who has given him so many tough losses this year.

It's not like you can really hide in this format.

Tsonga blows hot and cold. When his serve is on his opponent has to work hard otherwise he is not much of a threat. When Tsonga beat Rafa at Queens he served exceptionally well which made life difficult for Rafa but I also wonder how much of Rafa's heart was in playing Queens for the whole week considering he wanted a
small break before Wimbledon.

Can't wait for Sunday now, just want to see Rafa play again. I'll take pot luck and try for a ticket just to see him.

nadline, I think tickets are still available but right up in the gods, so take binoculars :)

Group A has the two youngest players and an average age of 26+
Group B has the two oldest players and an average age of 28+

Relevant or irrelevant?

ed, if u look at top 20, two youngest are 22, then Andy and Nole. All others are mid to late twenties...or even older...;) Makes yer think!
I also believe Agassi's record, you mentioned elsewhere, will stand, don't you?

nadline,

You are right about Tsonga. That is his one great weakness - inconsistency. Thank you for reminding me of it. I guess we should hope that he has one of his off days when he plays Rafa.

I also agree with you about why Tsonga beat Rafa at Queens.

So you are another lucky one who will get to see Rafa! I am green with envy! Give him a shoutout for me!

Don't worry about Tsonga. Don't you remember 2009 Paris Masters? No mater how badly Rafa plays ( and yes Rafa was playing real badly, one of the worst performances of his, at Paris Masters. Never forget his match against Almagro there), once he sees Tsonga across the net, he'll play his best to beat Tsonga ( he beat Tsonga 7-5, 7-5 there). Like what nadline mentioned, the Queens tournament Rafa's heart wasn't there to win but to have some match practices, like he used to do all along.

Last year, Rafa's group was at a disadvantage, as they had to play on Fri(last RRmatch),Sat for the SF and Sun for the final. This year if his group starts first, then their RR matches will finish on Thurs, and so whoever qualify for the semis will have a day's rest before the semifinals.

Do not worry Luckystar.
Fed will win his first match and then he'll play the second match against Rafa. Rafa wont have any worrying about DC schedule from then on.

The question is why?

That's good to know Sienna!

We're really worried about him being too exhausted before DC :-)

I see Nadline is getting ready to wheel out the propaganda machine for Rafa as per usual.
They are both tough groups dear, the world is not conspiring against Nadal, I'm sure of it : )

Which would be the Group B second match ? Federer-Nadal ?

Sienna and Ed...LOL.

Tsonga can be great or awful. The surface suits him, but he's in a group with Muzz and Nole. If Nole's healthy, I just don't see Jo getting into the semis.

Fish will be lucky to be able to compete. I hope he can, simply because he he played so well this year and earned the right to play with the tennis elite. Regardless, there is a possibility that he won't win any of his round robin matches. That B group is tricky.

Sienna, From what I read the winners of the 1st match play each other in the 2nd as do the losers. So if nadal loses the first match and Roger wins the first match they would only meet in the 3rd match.

So I guess nadal will be focusing on the DC after the 3rd match lol.

Cheryl, Tsonga is in Group B along with Roger, nadal and Fish.

Cheryl, I think Tsonga is in group B with Nadal & Fed & Fish.
Ferrer & Berdych are in Murray/Novak's group.

Whether Rafa lose to Fed or not in the RR stage, he still has his chances of qualifying for the semifinal. The weak link here is Fish. Even if Fed wins all his RR matches, Rafa still has his chances to qualify if he beats both Fish and Tsonga. Rafa can beat anyone from the other group to get to the final, yes even Nole, who's not at his best now after his injury. There's a possibility of Fed meeting Rafa at the final, but first they have to qualify for the semi, and follow up with a win over whoever they meet in the other group in the semi. Too early to predict anything now, they still have to play their matches.

One thing is for certain Lucky they ALL have a point to prove.
With Novak and Andy at the opposite sides of that particular spectrum.
Andy will be playing at a better level than last year however.
For the simple reason he is a better player than he was last year! In fact in the last 6 months I would say he is the most improved out of the top 5 (obviously a peaking Novak gets it for the year)
Only two departments are now lacking, temperament (serious but also improving) & the dodgy 2nd serve where he is barely in the top 50.
He need's to get that sorted out STAT!

Actually I'm eagerly awaiting a Fed vs Murray match, yet to see one this year. If Nole is not back to his best yet, then Murray has a good chance to top his group. However, like sanju, I would prefer Fed/Murray and Rafa/Nole semifinals and then a Rafa/Murray final.

bleck,

Is that so? then my insiders joke got lost in translation, because it was based on the fact that the winners play the losers. That is how it was last year and the year before otherwise the RR can all be over after second match. Winners play loser then it is still interesting the third RR match no matter what the outcome of the second match.

Indoors in a 3 setter Murray would have a good chance against even a perfectly fit Novak. I'm never too worried about his chances against him unless its a slam final situation, Djokovic Mark 2 is obviously the `better player` (for now), but Andy knows how to play him & will have his chances.
As for fed/murray, what some people don't entirely register about Murrays game is that he can completely neutralize you no matter how well you've been playing before & this is what he shall do to Roger if he isn't hit off the court quickly, ie absorb his pace, then change it or remove it, giving him nothing or the wrong thing. That coupled with his incredible anticipation & movement & the pressure exerted on Fed's backhand, means that Roger shall feel as if he has to turn his shots on a dime or things shall get very claustrophobic for him, the spaces shall shrink near to vanishing. And then Andy might also decide to actually play very well! He'll have to start quickly however if he has to have a good chance of winning, once Roger is on top of your game it can be over in 2 shakes of a lambs tail.
Last year at Shanghai, Roger thrashed Soderling & beat Novak comfortably & was the clear favourite against Andy in the final playing great tennis. But was beaten easily as Murray didn't allow him to dominate with his game, instead changing the rythmn of the match to his own requirements.
Roger shall have to play his very best tennis as a result (But I don't believe Andy needs to for the reasons above although naturally he must always play well), but that ofcourse is something he could do.

I am also happy that Rafa is not in Murray's group again. They kill each other in these kinds of matches. Nativenewyorker, 11/16/11 5:41 AM

He wasn't in Murray's group last year. They met in the semi because Rafa was first in his group and Murray was second in his group. So it is still possible that they could meet in the semi this year.

sosueme, You said roger was the provisional favourite for the WTF. Have you already changed your mind. lol

Because reading your post it sure seems so. It seems you're strugling with the obvious reality (Roger is the favourite). lol

lol? oh hilarious!
Wow you're SO clever & amusing Bleck!
I don't know what you're blabbing about however.
I like to discuss tactics & possible approaches of my favourite player & other players.
Not just come on here as another unpaid 3rd rate PR agent. Federer is still my provisional favourite, followed by Andy. For now.
`Provisional` however (its not my problem if you don't understand the word), so it means little to me at this stage but you clearly feel the need to defend his `favourite` status at the slightest alternative suggestion, I just hope you don't get too disappointed if it doesn't all go to plan.
: )

sosueme chill out. Don't need to get worked up.

Federer was your provisional favourite a couple days ago but you can change your opinion. I don't get what's your question with Roger being your provisional favourite a couple days ago and possibly not now. Is that hard to understand?


I won't get disappointed, you don't need to worry abou it. But thanks for caring. ;)

Everything Roger wins from now on is icing on the cake, despite that I want him to win everything, lol.

But imo we fed fans are in a good place right now. Roger is playing great tennis, still breaking records and winning a couple titles.

" I don't get what's your question with Roger being your provisional favourite a couple days ago and possibly not now. Is that hard to understand?"

It is, because the sentence doesn't make any sense.
Bleck, I'm hardly `worked up` you are irritating me slightly because (now pay attention) I said Roger was a provisional favourite, which means `temporary` `open to change`etc if youre too lazy to look it up. That & your smart ass attitude, which is entirely misplaced, judging from your lame assed posts at least ;-)

................I just hope you don't get too disappointed if it doesn't all go to plan.
: )
Sosueme
, 11/16/11 4:56 PM

Don't worry Sos.................there's always the trusty Fedfan fallback position when Fed fails to deliver (more likely scenario nowadays with his age)........bash Rafa and/or Rafans!

RITBL: You've not been reading all the comments recently............we've promised to be on our best behaviour ;-D

There is really nopressure n Roger to win this title. He wants to win it but not needs to win it. UnlikeDjokovic, Nadal, Murray They must win it for different reasons,
Murray to proof he can win a major tournement.
Djokovic to have a year to get on par with Fed 2006 or even 2005

Nadal to win the 5th biggest trophy in tenni

Murray is clear favorite to win this event Federer and Nadal both have an out side chance to win

tennis2011: as a die-hard Murray fan, am sorry to say this is simply not the case. Andy could well go off with fairies, like he did against Fed last year at O2.
Sosueme@3.32 indeed Andy himself has said as much: that you have to come out and dominate Fed from the start, if you want to give yourself a chance in best of 3. Best of 5 seems a bit different these days.

Ha ha what? Even 2005? Federer won two slams and no WTF then? Surely you were referring to 2004.

Sue, Don't need to get sour and do personal attacks. I'll let Roger do the talking for me.

And don't worry I won't go down to your level.

samps.
he played 12 and won 11 finals that year. he had a winloss rate of 95% 81-4
It was the start to a consecutive 10 slam run. He won 4 out of 5 master 1000 tourneys. He just lost WTF to an grueling good Nalbandian.
TMF was in the midst of his surge to greatness. 2005 should not be underrated because he only won 2 slams.

The slams are what matter. Nole has 3 slams and 1 more Master's series title this year, its already better than 2005. Notwithstanding the fact that the guy who beat him at the AO was nonexistent in 2005 after that. 2005 was a great year, no doubt but I don't think it tops Nole's 2011.

However, in terms of pure playing level - I think Federer was at his best in 2004/2005. His forehand was at its deadliest and his balance was something else at the time. It took a very special performance from Safin to beat him at the Australian that year.

samprallica, what about Fed's 2006? I thought he was better in 2006? I watched Fed's 2005 Miami final against Rafa and I really didn't find him(Fed) impressive, especially during the first two sets. Had Rafa won the third set tie break, he would have beaten Fed in straight sets in a best of five sets final, and that was how close Rafa was in beating Fed in a Masters final for the first time, and how closely he missed winning five Maaters title in that year.

Fedal's 2006 encounters on the hard courts were more exciting, in Dubai and in Shanghai TMC. To me Fed was playing better in 2006 than in 2005, not only on hard courts but also on clay. He also came very close to beating Rafa on clay for the first time, in that Rome final, having match points in tht fifth set. He too missed his chance of winning five Masters titles in that year.

Weel it is not all in the titles they win. 81-4 and he lost final of WTF.

he had that match to equal johny Macs year 82-3. He lost Rafa Garros and Safin (remember) semi AU Open. I thougth Fed came so close to beating Safin, but Safin did great to win that match. sensational stuff.

So I feel 2005 is his best year but not results wise but for play.

Maybe the best result year is yet to come.

Roger had a bad ankle in that TMC final against Nalby. It's mainly Nalby's choking that even gave Roger a chance to get to a fifth set. Go watch it. Roger had no business being in that match with a bad ankle yet he almost pulled it off.

If I recall properly, Nadal was running a fever in that Miami final that he lost to Fed.


And Numero is correct, Fed wasn't fully fit for the Nalbs match.

tennis2011, as an AndyM fan it pains me to say this but there are no clear favourites for this one. AndyM has a good track record against DavidF this year, A/O, Shanghai and Tokyo in 1hr21mins. On his day AndyM`s serve is formidable but he`s had so many niggles of late, sciatic nerve, hamstring I fear he may not be 100% fit.

Wow even then he only lost when sick or injured!
I reckon Rafa has been sick or injured 114 times in his professionel tennislife.

bleck you were absolutely rigth when stating winners play eachother second RR match and it has always been that way. Only with that outcome the third match is alway interesting. So Fed and Rafa will play the third match making it almost a must win for Fed to get 600 points out of RR matches to rob Murray in semi of his lifelong dream! and in the final set Djokers year behind all his TMF years. Another record up for grabs and undeafeted into 2012.