You'll be fine Champ............we your fans still have faith in you. The non-believers have seized on this "setback" as yet more proof of your demise. We know better. You know better. Roll on Cincy!!!!

VAMOS...............looking forward to seeing u play next week!

Yes Rafa, your fans are still behind you and as Rudyard Kipling says you have to treat triumphs and disasters just the same. Put it behind you and it won't matter in 6 months time, life is full of ups and downs.

The sad thing is, Rafa would have had an easy ride to the final and who knows what would have happened then.


Vamos Rafa!

Rafa's demise? Fat hope! He still has many more years at the top of the game, occupying the top two spots for some more times to come. His results this year said so, not being no.1 doesn't mean any demise, if not Fed is already in the demise by now!

Rafa's presser:

Q. Do you feel the pressure to play well in Cincinnati?
RAFAEL NADAL: I would love to do it. I don't have to. That's the sport. You don't have to play well every week. You don't have to be all the time at your best. It's not an obligation win or be in the final every week. That's what I want to do all the time. That's what I try all the time. But is not possible, no?
This year is been fantastic year for me with tough moments. Today probably is a tough one. But worst when you lose five finals. I lost five finals this year. I'm playing well. You know, after long time without strange lose, I lose today. Let's work hard to try don't to repeat that in Cincinnati.


Vamos Rafa!

luckystar
, 8/12/11 1:59 PM

It is so sad to see how the "usual suspects' are writing Rafa's orbituary on the basis of this loss to Dodig...............all because Rafa threatens Roger's GOAT status.

Rafa is strong. We, his fans, are strong. We will brush aside the ill-will and take each match as it comes. Of course it hurts to see Rafa hurt............but he is a fine, well-grounded young man, he teaches us a lot, both on and off the court.

Unlike others, we Rafans do not feel a need to put-down Rafa's rivals to feel good about Rafa..........................go Rafa!!!

I have NO DOUBT whatsoever about Rafa's ability to re-bound..................

Vamos....................Cincy!!!!

I think people jump on the Nadal is over bandwagon since Rafa is so much a confidence player unlike Federer. He needs matches under his belt to perform well but at the same time since his body is fragile a lot of matches take their toll. So Rafa needs to get the balance right so that he is physically fit and also confident about his game. The expectations are low from everyone after Djoker's terrific run. So the pressure to perform is off everyone's shoulders and firmly on Nole. Interesting to see how he copes with it

It is clear that Rafa is in a dark, unfamiliar place right now..................it happens in life. Everybody has their "nadirs". What differentiates the Rafas of this world, the true geniuses, from everybody, is how they negotiate their way out of them.

They are brutally honest about their shortcomings, they accept them, they do not hide their "grief", they suffer openly, they are not unfraid to look vulnerable, they are unstinting in praise of their "betters". They grow. and like a chrysalis, shed their "old skin" and come out shiny and clean............with no baggage, but on a higher plane..............

I am looking forward to a "new Rafa" emerging.............................I believe in this young man................

I'm sure this will come as no surprise to anyone when I say that the gloss has come off Montreal wth Rafa, Fed and Murray out, only Djokovic is keeping it interesting, but it must be a blow to the tournament to lose Rafa.

nadline
, 8/12/11 8:08 PM

Never mind the impact on the atmosphere at Montreal, what about on TT post traffic?

Roll on Cincy.......................

Ha, ha! RITB. If it weren't for the 'gloaters' the page traffic would be even lower.

Nadline: my sentiments exactly. With Birdie out I have lost interest in the outcome. They must be putting extra fluoride in the water in Serbia lol.

FYI
"After six years without playing in Argentina, the current world number two and Nalbandian will play an exhibition in December.

After six years, Rafael Nadal will play a tennis match in Argentina. The Spaniard, currently world number two, will clash with David Nalbandian on 8. December in an exhibit that will almost certainly be held at the Parque Roca, an encounter for which he will get the figure of one million dollars.

According to the newspaper The Chronicle, the clash between Nadal and Nalbandian will be organized by Alma Productions, a company directed by Martin Jaite and they will pay Nadal an amount similar to the one he was paid by the group IMLA in March to participate in a match against Djokovic in Bogota: 1 million US$.

The last time Nadal played in Argentina was in 2005, when in the quarterfinals of the Copa Telmex in Buenos Aires he lost 0-6, 6-0, 6-1 to Gaston Gaudio. World number two was just 18 years old then and ranked 48. in the world. In 2008 he could not play the Davis Cup final against our country because of an injury.

The idea is to make dinner in a hotel with important business leaders, who would pay 2,000 US$ for attending. The fee would include a photo with Nadal, and one Babolat racquet, says The Chronicle. As for ticket prices, they range between 70 US$(the cheapest) and 400 US$."

I guess it's not easy for the rich to turn down even more money. That's gonna be right after DC in which he will also likely play if they get to the final. Isn't the season too long Rafa? ;)

ed251137, 8/12/11 10:57 PM,

I agree with you about this tournament really not being all that exciting. I am trying to remember the last time three out of the four top players didn't make it through in a Masters tournament. I remember last year it happened at IW and Miami, when Rafa was the only one to get to the semis, where he lost to Ljuby. Then in Miama it was Rafa and Roddick again in the semis, with Roddick winning.

And yes, of course, it goes without saying that the haters will always be glad to provide traffic in the absence of real fans of the top players. :)

You see número, exho is only one match and it's more for entertainment for fans than actual competition, so please take things easy will you? Why is Fed signing a ten year contract with Credit Suisse then, which means like it or not he'll have to play on for a few more years!

Have you ever wonder, why both Fed and Rafa are suddenly interested in playing in South America? Fed mentioned recently that he wishes to go to S America some day, and Rafa is now doing exhos in S America. I think both of them realize that the large S Amercian market is still relatively untapped for both of them. This may be the last untapped market for them both, unless Africa suddenly becomes interested and promoting tennis across the continent.

Fedal have their shrewd marketing teams helping them, and it's not too late now to tap into the SAmerican market before Fedal lose it's aura. Who knows we may see Fedal meeting in the finals of the SAmerican clay court events come 2013!

numero must be upset that the million wasn't offered to Fed.
Relax, numero, Fed already has more than 500 million in assets and at least 60 million in annual income. Swiss people are very money minded I know, so despite the pile of cash, Fed may still be greedy for more. No wonder he wants to play for 5 more years.
But why are you so concerned? He is not giving you a share and in fact he probably doesn't know you exist.
You are really a loyal fan. There's another called Sienna. This guy thinks Fed will win 24 gs titles!
Since you are obsessed with multiple IDs, maybe this Sienna is you?

I'm afraid I didn't stay up to watch any matches last night because of lack of interest. I hope Rafa gets his act together to keep my desire burning because he puts the spark into tennis. I already taking shelter from those who will accuse me of only watching tennis because of Rafa, that is not the case, but it just knocked the stuffing out of me to see him lose his first match in such a silly way.

The sad thing is, Rafa was playing so well before he dropped his serve in the 2nd set and the bottom half of the draw has no real contenders so he would have made the final easily. Rafa doesn't seem to be learning any lessons from losing due to losing his nerve, he's got to get a tougher mindset and relax and play his game. He has lost soooooooooo many matches due to losing his concentration.

Vamos Rafa!

nadline,

I am worse than you, because I don't even have the excuse that it was late at night! I actually forgot about the matches today, but chanced to check out espn2 and saw most of the last two sets of Fish/Wawa. That was it for me. I had things to do and when I came back, the tennis was over. So much for my interest!

So I say let them accuse you of only watching tennis because of Rafa! Who cares! it's your life, you are a free person and do exactly as you wish! I am also disappointed that Rafa lost in his very first match. I was amazed and happy to see him playing such great tennis after the long layoff and injury. Unfortunately, it only lasted a set and a half.

I do think that maybe it will turn out to be for the best, given that he was battling a cold. I would not want him to play and make it even worse, with the big prize of the USO coming up in a few weeks. I think he lost his concentration because he only had a week and a half of practice. Last year with the knee treatment he was off for three weeks and had a few weeks of practice, but he was not at his best. This time it appears that his foot took longer to heal and he had even less time to practice. I think that was a big part of it. I can see him not being able to maintain that high a level of tennis having just come back. Dodig was match ready and able to take advantage of it.

We can see from Rafa's comment in this article, that Rafa wasn't happy about it either. He doesn't like giving away matches, especially at the very beginning of the tournament. He also lost valuable match play that he will need for the USO.

As far as going deep into the draw, I don't know that it would have happened. I am not sure that Rafa was ready to be able to do that, even with the favorable draw. I think Rafa will be even more determined to get it together. He needs to play some matches in Cincy if he is to have any chance of getting into better form. That is the most important thing now.

Rafans, I said on another blog that I did not kmow why I was not upset by Rafa's defeat by Dodig................now I know why. For me, Rafa has been playing so badly this season (but reaching finals, remarkably) that he needed a wake-up call, and I feel this loss to Dodig was just that. This was his nadir. He needed to get there and then work his way up. He did not play badly against Dodig. The loss was a combination of Dodig's inspired play, Rafa playing the important points badly and losing concentration on his serve. As Steve Tignor noticed when he analysed Rafa's post match presser: Rafa was more pre-occupied with the fact that he had lost 5 finals this year, 5!

Up to the Dodig match I believe Rafa was still "processing" those losses mentally. I think the 2nd round ouster in Montreal was needed for him to snap out of it.

I liked the fact that, during that presser, he veered off script (the presser was a post mortem of the Dodig match, not the 5 final losses) and talked about the 5 finals losses. For me, this was a "pressure cooker" moment, he had been bottling this all along and finally, he let it out, faced the fact. I think this is good for Rafa moving forward. He now knows that most guys on the Tour have raised their game (in response to the benchmark he and Fed set), now he needs to raise his and leap-frog them otherwise he will be losing to the Dodig's of this world again, never mind Nole, period.

In a nutshell, the above is why I was (am) not upset by his loss to Dodig. This does not mean I expect him to win his next tourney, but I expect to see less of the lapses of concentration which have cost him matches this season. If he loses matches it will be because his opponent out-played him, not because he lost concentration and couldn't serve out a match for instance.....................

This is why I am optimistic....................

I feel that Rafa allowed those five losses to bother him so much that even playing a second round match, he was too nervy and squandered all his leads and lost eventually. It's a bit like that USO SF match between Fed and Nole last year, where Fed was so bothered about losing in the final due to tiredness after the hard fought SF with Nole and he ended up losing the SF match. These guys really let the fear of losing get to their heads!

vrael, if I put my ear to my speaker, I can just about hear the sound of you softly sobbing....and it's nothing to do with Rafa either......;)

rubbing salt on my wounds,eh?? lol

well,yeah my cricket team is playing poorly...but we are still ODI WORLD CHAMPIONS...how many world cups do england have deuce??? huh?? ;)

we will bounce back..i am sure...

this has been a hectic week....india just getting demolished by broad and anderson....rafa out in 2nd round and ARSENAL FC...well what should i say about them.....hope we beat newcastle tonight....VAAAMOS GOONERPOWER!!!!

RITB, You are right, I hope this serves as a wake up call for Rafa. If he'd snapped put of losing IW and Miami he may not have lost Madrid and Rome to Nole and eventually Wimbledon. He is dwelling too much on those losses instead of just moving on. I also think that the taunting by the Serbs must also be getting to him and to crown it all Tipsa who was in his half has made the SF - galling!

Rafa still plays exceptional tennis and I don't think Nole is playing that much better that he always has the difference is Rafa's nerves, if he could only relax, he'll get through these matches with less pain.

To start with I was too stunned to be upset then as RITB says he's been playing badly recently and has won matches he deserved to lose so finally it's caught up with him so he'll have to learn from it. I'm not even excited about the draw for Cincy because he couldn't have had a better draw than he had in Montreal.

NNY, I think he would have made the final, there is no one in his half who could have stopped him, Berdy was firing either.

The Cincy draw is out and it looks good for Rafa. Murray is in his half as usual. His first will be against Garcia-Lopez or a Q, then there is Verdasco, Gasquet, Fish. The big hitters are split between Djokovic (Isner) and Dr Ivo (Federer).

vrael, playing like this, they won't be holding that world cup too much in the future, my darling :) England thrilling at the mo, Anderson and Cooksie fabulous but whole team too. Yours look very, very tired and mine won't let Tendulkar show off his wonderful ball striking, which is a bit sad....but only a bit...;)

If Murray ends up in Rafa's section at USO, then it will be at 6 straight GS. Is it because they still want a Fedal final?

Rafa also has to start being more positive about himself instead of always down-playing who he is. I not saying he should be arrogant but there is a big difference between being arrogant and being negative. The way he kept telling himself and everyone that what he achieved last year would be impossible to repeat, was bad for his psyche. If he really believed that, then why is he so upset that he lost 5 finals.

Go for it Rafa!


Vamos

numero, I think it is now an established fact that Rafa/ Murray, Nole/Federer are joined at the hip. I don't know how they can draw each other so often in a random draw even though there is a 50/50 chance of it happening.

deuce...maybe you do not follow cricket that much...so let me tell you that there is a lot of difference between test cricket and one day cricket...India is still a better ODI team than england...and the world cup is a one day tournament which comes every 4 years like the olympics...who knows what will happen in 4 years?? at the moment England look like the best test team...they are playing at home too...they would'nt have dominated if the series were in india...conditions are so different across the continents...england lost the last home series they played against india and have not beaten india in india since 1980 i think...so lots of variables here in this scenario....and very tough to predict what will happen in 4 years.....my informative rant is over and i apologise for deviating from the topic of the article but i had to defend my team...:)

now,talking about tennis...the cincy draw is out and rafa and murray are together in the same half again..no surprises there...hope to see a rafa-muzz semi....with rafa beating murray again to give me some bragging rights against deuce...:P

Vaamos

"Rafa still plays exceptional tennis and I don't think Nole is playing that much better that he always has the difference is Rafa's nerves, if he could only relax, he'll get through these matches with less pain."

nadline
, 8/13/11 2:53 PM

My sentiments exactly. This is not to downplay Nole's game, Nole has done exactly what he needed to do i.e. take care of his business i.e. Nole's serve has become vurtually break-proof, whereas Rafa has been dropping his serve quicker than a Soho floosie drops her...............well, you get my drift. Now the explanation a lot of commentators are giving (even Rafa himself) is nerves. This I do not understand......are we to believe that Rafa the phenom (and he IS a phenom when you consider his career todate) is suddenly afflicted by nerves, as if this is the first time he he playing these guys? I do not get this..................Rafa was always renowned as having nerves of steel, why have they become like jelly now?

I suspect Rafa allowed himself the luxury of resting on his laurels once he upended Roger...............he owned the locker room, opponents "lost" the match in the tunnel when they were playing Rafa, and when on court, he bullied them into submission. He had conquered everything and everybody. This was the mistake. At this point, Rafa should have set himself a new target: overhauling Roger's GS tally. But he did not because for some reason Rafa has never wanted to focus on this, whether out of respect for Roger or because he honestly felt he could not do it, i don't know. It has been like a taboo for Rafa. But I feel this was the only big challenge left for Rafa and going after it would have stopped him "drifting". Whether he equals Fed's GS haul or not is not the issue, the issue is to set it up as a target, something to motivate him, to work towards.

So, there he was, with "nothing" else to aim for, especially after achieving the career GS, you really saw him drift.......one exho after another..........IW comes along, there's Nole on the other side, Rafa is a set up and he loses the match. Miami comes, same thing. He does not believe Nole has tightened up his act, he expects him to disintegrate at some point, i.e. refusing to address the real problem: HIS COMPLACENCY. I remember after Roland Garros he made the comment that as far as Nole was concerned, he (Rafa) was content to bide his time as Nole could not maintain that high level of play indefinitely. I remember thinking: this is a losing strategy by Rafa, waiting for Nole's level to drop. It was clear to me at that point that Rafa had yet to make the mental adjustment that Nole (and the rest of the tour) had raised their game (thanks to him and Roger) and that he had to raise his and not wait for them to drop theirs.

I was also struck by a comment he made post the Dodig match. He said Dodig had played the big points without nerves. I was like: were you expecting him to, Rafa?

But this time I believe this loss to Dodig truly, truly jolted him. It's his own "fault" that the rest of the tour has raised its game, now he has to lift it again if he still wants to be relevant.

When I saw how he won matches he had no business winning this season, reaching finals when he frankly, had been pants, i then agree with nadline's above quoted statement. Rafa still has a reserve margin he can draw on to leapfrog the tour easily, again. In my humble opinion, I do not think his problem is Nole, in spite of the spanking Nole has meted out to him, I think his problem is Fed, and his (Rafa's) lack of desire (todate) to openly admit to himself that he wants the GOAT'S GS record, and psyche himself accordingly. If Rafa does this he will fly past Nole beacuse the GOAT's record is that much higher than Nole's level.

Rafa needs to regain that mental stubbornness which made players refer to him as a "mental beast". I say regain because he has had it before, this is why I do not understand this sudden mental namby-pambiness...............................

I think Cincy will give us a clue as to which direction Rafa wants to go..............

RITB, I think we should send our observations to Rafa. I agree with every word you said. Rafa seems to have a lack of ambition in overtaking Roger's record. I always thought he felt comfortable being No 2 to Roger, or let me put it another way, he didn't mind being No 2 to Roger, probably because of the huge age gap, he accepted that that was the correct order of things. Being No 2 to Nole is a different matter altogether and he is finding it hard to cope with it.

Rafa needs to be ruthless in achieving whatever he can even if that puts Roger in his shadow. Roger also got very cosy with the Fedal reign and feels people like Nole are intruding and do not deserve to be above them. If Nole is winning the titles then he sure deserves to be above them, if they want to carry on dominating they have to pull their socks up and start kicking the proverbial. Rafa should stop saying he doesn't want to be the GOAT because he has achieved enough already, if that's the case he shouldn't be surprised when he loses matches he should win.

I'm so down now over Rafa's loss this week that I can't even enjoy recordings of his matches which I normally enjoy so much, it's just too sad.

Vamos Rafa!

Very succinctly captured Nadline. And however much he may convince himself that Nole's Blitzkrieg is not going to last, he may be worried that Nole has Rafa's number the way Rafa has Fed's. At least when Rafa was dominating Roger, other players had a chance against him. This Nole does not seem give anybody even a foot in the door. I think over the past five matches, he tried everything against Nole but could not make it stick. And the fact that the matches have been one sided would have got into his head. Not to mention on all the three surfaces. I think someone out there has to show Rafa that Nole is beatable and only then he can start believing in it. This season is so much reminiscent of Roger's 2006.
But Vamos Rafa!!

Nadline/RIFB : I have been saying since past 5 months, Rafas main undoing is his negative statemnents..He speaks just too negative..he always keeps selling himself short..how can one win if you talk negative all the time? People may argue hes trying to fownplay his chances, not put too much expectations on himself..but when you keep repeatng the same statements over and over again, i seeps into your subconscious mind and pushes you in that direction only

There is no ISSUE BUT THIS NEGATIVITY AND SELLING HIMSELF SHORT

I mean Fed is so much in a worse shape performance wise than Rafa, yet do u hear him speaking so negative?

For us Rafa fans, it is irritating to hear a person we like talk so negative..It actually pisses me off no end..And yes I am baffled where did thpse nerves of steel go? Everyone agreed he was the mental beast, god knows what happened

I don't agree that Rafa has become complacent! How can we his fans said that about him? After his 2009 disaster, he seeks to improve his game, shortening points and tries to play an all court game, improving almost every aspect of his game. How can we say that once he has Fed's number, he becomes complacent? Remember what he said about going to practice? He said he goes to practice not to practise but to learn something. He knows very well that he has to keep improving to stay ahead of the pack.

He has his problems this year because he didn't start it well with his illness in Doha and then injury at AO blowing his chance of a Rafa slam. He's obviously shattered by all these and with rustiness and clearly not at the top of his game, he played at IW and encountered so much problems with players like Somdev and Karlovic but yet he overcame them to reach the final! I'm sure (yes I'm sure!) that had Rafa being playing like he did at the Abu Dhabi final against Fed and with no illness and Injury happening after that, he was able to beat Nole in the IW final, even Miami too. Had he won that two finals, we won't be talking about any mental blocks he has with Nole now. His confidence is affected because of him thinking that he had the bad luck of not having a chance at the Rafa slam due to his illness and injury, his game thus being stalled while the likes of Nole and Murray etc have the chance to catch up with him, and Nole finally startted beating him on all surfaces. Which ever player in the same plight as Rafa would also feel the same way; Rafa is human so he can lose heart. The difference about Rafa and the rest is that he'll learn to bounce back, as his 2010 demonstrated. We just have to be patient with him, give him sometime to come to terms with the current situation, calm down and think of a way to fight back. He may not be as dominant as before, but he may be able to turn the table against Nole or at least hold his ground against Nole with 50:50 chances of winning.

Guys..who would you prefer if Rafa has to win the USO against?

Djoko in the final or Roger?

To defeat his nemesis Nole or becase Roger and Rafa have never played in USO, a chance to contest a final there too..a stellar one

I would prefer a Rafa-Nole final. Rafa to beat Fed in the semi-finals.
This is my ideal scenario.
Beat Fed on the surface on which Rafa had never met the Swiss before and take revenge on Nole for all the times he lost.
I don't feel too surprised by Rafa's loss to Dodig. Either I no longer have great expectations from him or I think Rafa is coiling himself like a spring to come back with great force at the USO. Can't figure out why I am neither surprised nor unhappy.

sanju, my ideal would be Rafa to beat Nole at Cincy, then beat Fed in the USO semifinal and Murray in the USO final. The reason being 1) I want to see Rafa beating Fed and Murray at the USO; 2) I want to see Murray beating Nole so I hope they land in the same half at the USO; 3) if Rafa can beat Nole at Cincy, even if he wins the USO without having to beat Nole there, we wont have to hear those comments about Rafa being lucky not having to meet Nole on his way to his slam title; 4) The points difference between Rafa and Nole will be narrower if Rafa wins the USO and Nole fails to reach the final.

I would prefer Rafa besting Fed in semi and Nole in final..

or Murray in semi and Fed in final..

Lets see how the script pans out..

I really have my doubts if the Top 4 will make it to semi of US O. I am sure either 1or even maybe 2 of them will crap out before..Question remains which of the 4 will it be?

Of course Rafa has been unlucky with illness and injury this season and this has played havoc with his preparations. But I still think he was slow to recognise Nole's ascendency as 'permanent" and chose to treat it as a blip i.e. his level would drop. I also still think he should have won IW and Miami. The reason he lost is because he went walkabout mentally at crucial points. If he had remained focussed at those 2 tourneys we wouldn't having this discussion today.

Having said all that I am bullish about Rafa's prospects (touch wood the twin evils of illness and injury give him a wide berth). I really liked his post Dodig match presser, yes he looked awful but what he said told me he was coming to terms with where he was "at". Note that he said, "This year is been fantastic year for me with tough moments. Today probably is a tough one. But worst when you lose five finals. I lost five finals this year." He did not say, I lost five finals this year to Novak. To me this is key because it shows me he is attributing those losses to himself, nobody else. He is saying, before 2011 I was bulletproof in finals, that is his focus, EXCELLENT.

So, sanju & co. I would say, don't worry........................you're going to see a different Rafa come Cincy................I feel it. I do not expect him to win Cincy, but I expect him to lay everything on the line for USO............

Personally, I do not care who he beats in the final at USO,....................I just want him to retain the damn trophy.........................

rafaisthebest : Hope so your words come true..

Yes I too wouldnt mind if he loses in masters this year as long as he winsUSO and WTF:-)..Am I being greedy? :-)

sanju
, 8/13/11 7:50 PM


Here's my wish list:
USO 2011;
WTF 2011;
Oz Open 2012;
Roland Garros 2012;
Wimby 2012.

You, greedy?..................I think you are positively frugal compared to me!!!!

I am the queen of greed where Rafa is concerned because I want him to win the lot. I know that's not possible but there is no harm in hoping. He needs to beat Nole the next time they meet that's the one thing that would solve his problem. He also needs to be more positive about his prospects, by talking himself down all the time other players think he is not that motivated and put up a fight against him even more, because they think they can win.

All Rafa's fans have such high expectations for him and then we hear him saying how impossible it is for him to achieve this, that and the other. That really does annoy me.

luckystar, 8/13/11 6:30 PM,

I have long been an admirer of your posts, but I think this one will now be my favorite!

I was going to jump into this discussion and give my thoughts about Rafa, but then I read your post and you said it all for me. I agree completely and totally with every single thing you said. You summed up what the real issue is with Rafa right now. I don't think it has anything to do with him saying that he doesn't need to be GOAT or thinking he can't match Fed's 16 slams. What Rafa says publicly, is not necessarily what he thinks or believes privately. However, I do think that Rafa sets his own goals and standards. I don't see him being bound by the whole idea of matching Fed in the slam count. That would definitely put him in Fed's shadow always chasing him. Rafa wants his achievements to stand on their own. I just don't think Fed is any part of the equation with the problem that Rafa is experiencing now.

It's those five losses to Nole and Rafa brought it up again in his post-match presser in Montreal. So we know it's in his head. I think Rafa was crushed when he didn't have a chance to win the AO. We don't hear him talking about it, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't devastating. The whole nightmare with him getting sick and then having that injury at the AO, reallyh set him back. I am with lucky on this theory. All of the difficulties flowed from that disappointment.

I also would never think that Rafa is complacent at all. I don't think he is content to be second to Fed at all. I think he sees his accomplishments as his alone and elevating him to his own level of greatness. He has never subscribed to this competition that goes on all the time, with Fed and Rafa fans arguing about GOAT all the time. I think Rafa believes that he has made his own mark. He is different from Fed when it comes to numbers and records. He doesn't think about it all the time or his legacy. He just wants to keep working hard and doing his best. I honestly don't think that matching Fed's slam total is that important to Rafa. He has always set his own goals. I say good for him!

Rafa still has mountains to conquer. Next year he will have the opportunity to win his seventh RG, beating Borg's record. I think those are the things that mean the most to Rafa. He still has history to be made and more to do. I believe that he will find the answers as he always has in the past.

As lucky said so well, we do need to be patient with him and let him work this out.

Maybe Rafa is more in touch with reality than his fans.
He said it was almost impossible for him to repeat last year and he has been proved right.
He has said Djoko's level cannot last indefinitely. I am sure he would be proved right.
Unless, like Spiderman or some other superheroes, Djoko suffered an accident and got super powers. In that case, all bets are off.

What Rafa says publicly, is not necessarily what he thinks or believes privately. Nativenewyorker, 8/13/11 9:54 PM

He'd definitely make a better politician and lawyer than brutally honest Roger and Nole then.;)

numero, Roger brutally honest? He is not even honest with himself, he is in denial.
As for Nole, I am not clear how you arrived at the conclusion that he is brutally honest.
None of the players, as far as I know, are brutally honest.
They have to take care of PR and obviously cannot say things like, "my opponent has no chance or I think that guy is a skunk".
The elite players are public figures and no way are they going to be even allowed to be brutally honest. Are you from Andromeda Galaxy or something? Do you think Fed and Nole are saying exactly what they think or believe privately? Are you a mind reader?
NNY's statement is exactly correct for all superstars. We have no way of asserting that what they say is what they think. We have to consider the possibility of their private thoughts being different. Unless, you are a mind reader.

Rafa, as per the media is the most honest of the lot besides being more humble. He would definitely not make a better politician or lawyer. A philosopher maybe.

I agree with lucky and native on this one...Rafa is certainly not thinking about breaking Fed's records and even if he is it would be stupid to do so...it would be the same as thinking about finals with Nole when playing his first round match with Dodig...Rafa prefers step by step approach and he does not think too big because he does not want to get carried away and end up disappointed...in the past he spent hours of practicing and training to keep improving and adjust his game to be able to beat Fed in the finals...and he has done it well...that was his main goal back then...on that path he was able to learn from Fed...now he has another obstacle, and it is Nole...he is working hard to adjust his game to overpower Nole...it takes time and effort since Nole seems to be so comfortable when playing Rafa...but Rafa will get there...and that is his main goal right now, which is perfectly legitimate and right way of doing...he fell to Dodig, so what? I am surprised that nobody noticed how well and aggressive Rafa played in that match...he was not lucky and he lost concentration but losing that match still means nothing. he will bounce back because he has his goals set...and if he keeps wining Fed's records might get broken anyway, but he sure does not think about it at this point...Rafa is not complacent. But he was right not to expect to repeat his success from last year: different thinking would have been unrealistic and we all know that realistic thinking is what Rafa and Uncle Toni are all about...And Nole can not keep wining forever, so if Rafa says "I will be there waiting for him", it actually means: "I will keep working hard to be able to beat him at some point"...

Rafa is great just the way he is and that is why we love him so much!

VAMOS RAFA!

Roger and Nole are misconstrued as cocky or arrogant when they say they want to be #1 or they want to win GS. Rafa always says the same parrot BS "I will try my best blah,blah,blah". He is a robot and of course he has ambitions that he never reveals, unlike Roger and Nole.

numero, Merely revealing one's ambitions do not make one brutally honest. How about revealing one's weaknesses ( hey guys, today, my normally fearsome forehand is a little off )? or temporary fitness problems? Roger talks about his injuries only after he loses.

Ok you're just being nit-picky now. You got the jest of my point even if adding brutally was a bit of an exaggeration. The robot has been programmed to not reveal his ambitions and the other 2 are much more honest in revealing theirs.

I doubt that Rafa can be described as a robot. He is philosophical and usually conveys the concepts which are followed by great people who are motivated by their inner goals and not by the goal of surpassing somebody's records.
Your two robots haven't been programmed to be honest about their shortcomings. Federer always claims either some injuries or some other excuse. He claims the match is always on his racket. He wins or he loses. The other fellow doesn't get any credit.
Fed has been programmed to speak highly about himself.
I can't say much about Nole as only recently is the media focusing on him so much. But from what has emerged he is no class act and you can say this robot is programmed to behave in an unclassy manner.
Nadal revealed his dreams long ago. When discounted as a claycourter, the young genius shyly confided his dream of winning at Wimbledon. That was his dream, not his ambition.
Nadal's ambitions are to do as well as he can. And he admits this freely.
Merely because Fed wants to win 20 slams, does it mean that if Rafa says he has achieved more than he thought he could, he is less than honest? Why should everybody have the same ambitions as your hero?

LOL... IF RAFA IS ROBOT... what is Fed... monument ???

Come on guys stop being facetious. You all know what I meant. In his pressers he's been programmed to say the same things :

"I am not favorite"

"I will try to do my best"

"For me Roger is still the greatest"

"It's very tough match tonight,no?" (That's usually reserved for after he's dominated somebody)

It's as if those were the first English sentences he learned.

Roger and Nole, on the other hand, are very articulate and thoughtful in their pressers. Perhaps it has something to do with the command of the English language.

Have you considered the possibility that he is so consistent because he actually speaks what he believes in? Can your values and beliefs keep changing? His pressers are generally more profound despite his struggles with the language.
Roger and Nole are more superficial.

We're never going to see eye to eye on this(i.e. you're never going to admit that my points are valid and vice versa). Let's just agree to disagree. I don't like endless pointless back and forth. This has gotten boring fast.

Good, I wanted to make you regret having made that silly jibe at Rafa. You must think twice before making such patently false statements lest you find yourself tied up in knots in trying to defend an indefensible statement.

I need to say something here. Rafa's recent pressers at RG, Wimbledon and Toronto were quite revealing about how he's feeling now. I didn't see him giving the so called predictable answers to questions asked. Instead, he provided some long elaborate answers that many people didn't expect he would give. As his English improved, he becomes more comfortable in his pressers and also more articulate. There are certain things that will never change, ie he still thinks Fed is the best; he himself needs to do his best in every match in order to have a chance to win(as his recent match at Montreal showed).

numero, there is no point discussing with holdserve, 2% remember?

What is this rfzr babbling? Is he a Fed fan? Or a Nole fan?

Lik I said, Rafa's loss to Dodig did not bother me at all..................for reasons outlined above..........

I am really looking forward to Cincy to see his response..............

Feelin' good!

On a separate topic.......................watching Serena Williams in full flow gets the juices flowing for me......................the woman is Rafaesque when she is in the mood!!!

."............Rafa is certainly not thinking about breaking Fed's records .........."
natashao
, 8/14/11 1:03 AM

We agree on that! ...................if you read my post I am saying Rafa is not thinking about breaking Roger's record, and FOR ME, he needs to do that, use it as a motivational target .

If I read your post correctly, you say Rafa should not think about Roger's record. Fair enough, let's agree to disagree................

Wanting to break Roger's record does not mean he wants to be like Roger, or that he wants to mirror his career.........I don't get that. Athletes target records all the time.............records are there to be broken...........

Well, I come back here to see that numero has caused yet another ruckus with that inane and irrelevant comment about Rafa being a good politician. So yet one more time he takes something I have said and twists and distorts it to mean something completely inane and irrelevant! How on earth did being a politician come into this discussion? It has nothing whatsoever to do with anything related to Rafa, however it has once again succeeded in riling up Rafa fans. That is precisely what it was supposed to do, as well as the subsequent comment that Rafa has been programmed to be a robot repeating the same comments. Then numero gets bored when people come on and make some reasonable and well founded comments illustrating that Rafa is far from the caricature which he wishes to make him seem.

Rafa is himself first, last and always. If he is asked a question about how he played, then he will give a thoughtful, insightful answer. His knowledge and awareness of himself have always impressed me. He does have some stock answers if he is asked about his chances against his opponents. He never likes to say anything that would be disrespectful or inflammatory or that would degrade his opponents in any way. You know what that is? Smart! He stays equivocal and doesn't brag or play himself up. That is in part because of the way he was brought up. Uncle Toni told Rafa to "stay humble, stay hungry". He is not comfortable playing up his chances and it's a solid strategy when approaching a match. That's why I said that Rafa doesn't always tell everyone what he is thinking. There are some things that he will only discuss with his family, close friends and his coach, Uncle Toni. That doesn't make him any less honest than anyone else.

Rafa is his own unique and individual self. He need not be compared and found wanting against either Fed or anyone else. Fed is who he is, but that doesn't make him any better than Rafa. They are different people who deal with their public comments in their own way.

For any new Rafa fans here, this is the way numero operates. He will make some pointless remark just to get Rafa fans upset. It usually has little to do with the actual discussion and is just a means to an end.

My advice is, don't fall for it. However, everyone here is free to speak their mind. What I will say is that you cannot win an argument with someone who disgresses and brings up silly things that have nothing to do with anything.

"He needs to beat Nole the next time they meet that's the one thing that would solve his problem."
nadline
, 8/13/11 8:37 PM

Nadline, I think this has been Rafa's problem right there in his recent matches with Nole. He has been too conscious of Nole's presence across the net imho, and this has distracted him from his game! In this respect, he has ended up playing the man, not the point!

I get what you are saying.................but maybe Rafa needs to stop THINKING it. And this is where my point about focusing on OTHER targets came in. Watching Rafa play Nole, it seems to me the problem has been Rafa's body language, not his game. If errors streamed from his serve or his forehand, it's because he was too conscious of the man across the net and thus compromising his concentration on the point!

Like you said before, Rafa is still playing exceptional tennis, enough to beat anybody on the tour. For me, the problem has been in his head...........notice I say "has" because I honestly believe the penny dropped for him in Montreal..............

I value people who have their own goals and live up to their own expectations...to me, people must have immediate goals and objectives in order to reach the ultimate overall goal...Rafa is like that...he wished he would win Wimby and he did it...he wished he would win USO and he made it...he has his inner goals set and he is working towards it...his goal to once again improve and lift his game is perfect immediate goal...it will lead to more wins, more success and more motivation to write history...and that is what I think Rafa is doing: writing his own page of tennis history....

Whether Rafa says what he thinks or not, what he says is what people hear and negative statements about his chances and his place in the game and not accepting that he IS one of the best, do affect his psyche. I think I am beginning to see where McEnroe is coming from - that he should strut a bit, just a bit, not be arrogant but behave like who he is and not talk himself as less of the man he is.

Rafans will die to put him where he belongs and then he comes out with things like Federer is the greatest.

At the end of the day I think it's lack of confidence that is causing most of his problems. He was taken aback at how well Dodig was playing and suddenly lost his nerves.

Vamos Rafa!

I nearly turned down an invitation to lunch today because I didn't want to miss Rafa in the final, in the end I accepted because I thought I should stop running my life according to Rafa's tennis calendar, just as well I did, because he is not in the final.

He seems OK arriving in Cincy signing autographs for fans who have flocked the tournament this year.

Vamos Rafa

nadline,

You are a dear and valued Rafa fan, which makes it hard for me to disagree with you, but disagree I must. What Rafa says is what he feels comfortable saying. However, he could not have done what he has in this sport if he didn't have a strong ego and belief in himself. It simply would not be possible. All great athletes have tremendous egos. It's part of why they are able to do the things they do. Rafa is not any different. He just doesn't show it. But it's there. He could not come back and fight for the great victories he has achieved, if he did not have an innate and strong conviction in his ability.

If Rafa honestly believes that Fed is the greatest player, then that is what he thinks. I don't necessarily believe that it means that he sees himself as somehow inferior. I think Rafa is happy with his own singular accomplishments. He can see his career as separate from Fed's and not joined at the hip for all time.

I also remember Rafa saying in answer to the familiar refrain about who is the greatest, Fed or himself, something to the effect of - we will see when our careers are over. I know he has said that more than once. So he is being careful and keeping it open by saying that we should wait for both of them to retire. I think that makes a lot of sense.

I also must say that I wouldn't ever want Rafa to be like McEnroe in any way at all! I couldn't stand McEnroe's temper tantrums. They drove me crazy! He was almost unwatchable for me. I adored Borg and he said nothing. He had learned a tough lesson early in his tennis career about holding in his emotions, thank goodness! That's why he was called "Ice Borg" or the "Angelic Assassin". He never showed emotion during a match, just played like a God! He was unlike anyone else, in that he rarely said anything to the media. He certainly never told them what he was really thinking. It became part of his appeal, his mystic, his "cool" image. He did it his way. He also didn't go around bragging and building himself up. He didn't have to. Like Rafa, he did his talking with his racket. You know that this is how Rafa speaks. He lets his game do it for him.

Rafa is having a crisis of confidence now. He has lost five finals to Nole on three surfaces and even his precious Wimbledon. That has to be difficult for a proud champion like Rafa. He has a new problem to solve and will find an answer.

I also cannot agree with you about the match with Dodig. Rafa was pummeling him for a set and a half. He played some brilliant tennis that I would not have expected in his first match back from a long layoff and injury. That was no figment of my imagination. He just needs more matches to get into his rhythm and timing and be able to sustain that level of play. For now I am saying that the Dodig loss was just a bad day at the office for Rafa.

In Cincy, we will know if that is true or not.

Come on, cheer up! Hang in there! And yes, you should have a life outside Rafa! That's why I took six weeks off after Wimbledon and didn't post here. You also know that I had to keep it together and not go crazy over his loss because I had other commitments in my life. We do need a balance. Don't worry, Rafa will understand! :)

Winning tough close matches and sets is what he does. I do not believe he has lost his nerves specialy against players of the caliber like Dodig.
He is just a few % off thats why Dodig was able to come back in the sets and win the match.
But I decided not to let

NNY, you misunderstood me. I did not say Rafa should copy McEnroe's behaviour, all I'm saying is that I can see where McEnroe is coming from when he says Rafa should not be too humble about what he's achieved. What I was trying to say about the Dodig match was that when Rafa was broken and then lost the 2nd set he suddenly became nervous because he realised that he had a match on his hands that he could lose so he became nervous. I did not dispute that Rafa was in control for a set and a half.

I, unlike you, don't agree with lucky who wrote Rafa off for the rest of the year even before Montreal, and was looking to Murray to take it to Nole. I have enough faith in Rafa not to write him off for the rest of the year.

nadline,

Thanks for the clarification. It appears that I did misunderstand you. I am glad to know that!

Now I have to take my turn to clear up this idea that I agree with lucky regarding writing Rafa off for the rest of the year. I agreed with her analysis of what has happened to Rafa this year, starting with getting sick and then injured at the AO and up to the present. I went back and read the post with which I agreed and I don't see her saying there that she was writing Rafa off even before Montreal. Maybe it was another post, but that is not how I feel at all.

I know that Rafa traditionally hasn't had the best of it during the hard court season, but he is on a mission this time. I would never write him off under any circumstances. I am looking forward to Cincy to see how he responds after that loss to Dodig. The very fast surface at Cincy has not been very kind to Rafa's game, but I think Rafa did get a bit of a wakeup call with that loss to Dodig. He at least knows that he is capable of playing a set and a half of great tennis. Now he needs to try for a full two sets!

So please know that regarding the issue of not writing Rafa off for the rest of the year, you and I are in complete and total agreement!

I didn't realize how late I have stayed up posting. I was trying to catch up on all the discussion, but it's now time to go to sleep!

Take care! :)

ATP website

Fans flock to see stars in Cincy

A record 13000 fans flocked to Cincy on Sat. to watch the likes of Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer practise on day 1 of the qualifying at the combined ATP & WTA tournament.
**************************

There is a picture of Rafa signing autographs and it's great to see him again after his disappointment in Montreal.

I've always loved tennis, I've loved it for more years than I care to mention and I have had my favourites in the past but none so all encompassing as my support for Rafa, to the extent that without Rafa, tennis just doesn't appeal as much anymore. I need to wean myself off this because I started watching tennis long before Rafa was born.

I would have been more keen to watch the other matches since Rafa went out but when I see players in his half playing I can't help feeling it should be him if only he hadn't messed up against Dodig.

dear oh dear champers, the rafa fans are having a difficult time of coming to terms with their idol falling from his perch. You are all arguing with each other!

Get used to it.

The only way forward is for him to change tactics otherwise he's done/ Rafa has lost his aura/ It's gone/ If Dodig can do it, so can anyone. Rafa played badly to be up 3 love in the set and blew it away/: Bye bye.

Stop crying over spilt milk.

You are not the only one who calibrates your schedule around Rafa's matches, nadline, trust me..............I am guilty of same! No aplogies given.......................

Rafans, when I offer an opinion about Rafa's game, I do not for one minute think to do so because I know his game, mental state, tennis better than him or his team. If I did then I would have the 10GS, record Masters shields, channel slams and, and, and.........................I do not, he does. Watching Rafa play and trying to understand his genius (with opinions galore!) is part of what being a fan is about for me. In my conceit, I assume that gives me the right to pontificate about all things Rafa!

At the end of the day they are just that, my opinions, they are not facts. The same goes for every other fans'................opinions. That's what makes this fandom business so engaging..........another opinion! I personally enjoy resding other people's opnions, even those about a player I do not consider my fav...........

There is no right or wrong here, can never be......................however one thing is true...............all Rafa fans love Rafa, warts and all, because of the joy (sometimes he gives us pain too) he gives us..................

VAMOS....................roll on Cincy!!!!......................and I KNOW I will calibrate my schedule so I can catch Rafa's matches........................sigh

Fleur
, 8/14/11 1:13 PM

And of course, your opinions are most welcome too...................

Not having much expectation = writing Rafa off? Since when the rule becomes so rigid? It all depends on what are our expectations of him? If Rafa's normal standard is to at least win one or two titles during this period, then by not expecting much may mean he still can get to the finals of tournaments but not winning them! So he's still doing reasonably well despite not meeting high expectations, why is that called writing him off?

It's just that I don't expect him to solve the Nole problem so soon, so if both of them reach the finals, chances are I expect Nole to win. To me that's not writing Rafa off, writing him off means I expect him to lose early in tournaments, which is not what I think would happen.

Or one more thing, Fleur....................the Rafa fandom is not a dictatorship, we are ALLOWED to have individual opinions.............................maybe something that is alien to you, poor soul.

So, sorry...........................if you follow Rafa fans' converastions (as you clearly do), you will have to get used to that fact..............................we are feisty, opinionated, rumbutious, we agree AND disagree. And do you know where we get those characteristics from...................our idol Rafa. You see, unlike others, Rafa does not set himself as a deity, immune from criticism. He is human, and normal...................and so are we, his fans.

Vamos.....................................!!!!!!

always looks down on great past players. sucks arrogant Nadal.

excuse for sick or inury. fake time out. cheater. annoying always.

arrogant. annoying. blind. nadal's fan



really sick

Oh no,...................look what the cat dragged in...........................

RITB,

Nole is the best in case you hadn't noticed. You might want to change your name, no?

You are unbalanced, unhinged in what you say.

Counselling is the only way forward for you:P. You use your words here like a man of the cloth. This isn't wise.

You are like David Hasselhoff. 'The Hoff'. Like a groupie, someone who hangs on to the tails of your 'idol'. This is how you speak, you set him up as a deity, a God. That is unhealthy.

Get a life.

Rafa is done.

Fleur
, 8/14/11 2:10 PM


Careful........................you are resorting to personal insults, always a sign that you have lost the argument.

Also, Rafa has the mental burden of his five finals losses to Nole, Murray doesn't have that burden, so he's in a better position to deal with Nole, at least mentally. Likewise for Fed, who lost one final and two semis to Nole and managed to beat Nole once. If Rafa can beat Nole at least once now, I believe that may give him the confidence in future meetings with Nole.

and Fleur....................the moderators (and all normal posters on TT) frown on personal insults...............just so you know.

It is not a personal insult RITB, but an observation of your worship. This is unhealthy, and what argument exactly is it that you are putting foward except that you worship your idol? That is not an argument.

an argument, you see both sides, you do not here, just pure worship.

Ewwww.

Rafa is done? Proof please! Getting to eight finals, winning three of them and one of them a slam, no.2 in the race and rankings and he's done? What about Fed or Delpo or whoever for that matter? They all have to quit and go home!! Stop posting craps like these please, don't insult our intelligence!

Good........................... that warning got you back-tracking..........have a nice day, Fleur!

luckystar
, 8/14/11 2:27 PM

Lucky................poor Fleur is feeling left out of our (Rafa fans) conversation, hence him/her butting in like this. It's a cry for attention..................why he/she cannot find their own fan conversation to join, is beyond me. Ooops, I get it, our conversations are much more exciting!!!!!!

I for one am signing off now that our conversation has been highjacked by undesirables..........................


Go on Fleur.............................have the last word dear, just stay away from profanities.................

Why do the Rafans always cry for the moderators? Can't defend yourselves with any counter arguments?

P.S. Thanks rfzr. I figured it was holdserve by the time she was posting. Or should we call her Veejay from Bleacher Report?

no back-tracking RITB, but go ahead and congratulate yourself since you have low self-esteem. You mention we are allowed our opinions? why sign off then?

Sentimentality for your idol I think makes you go away. But I can see no argument from you. You obviously don't know what an argument involves. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt. You probably need some practice, no?

Like your 'idol?'.

What has fed/delpo got to do with this discussion LS?

Didn't rafa go out in the first round? What is the argument for that? Injury? Tiredness? Is there a knee issue? what now?
I would be interested to hear rather than you including players that have nothing to do with the discussion. Federer (as you mentioned him), did NOT go out in the first round. Isn't this the first time this has happened to rafa since, 2008? Please put me right here. You know/worship him more than I do.

Rafa is done.

Hello Fleur, didn't Fed go out in first rounds too at Rome last year, and Psris Masters in 2009? Was he done then? So what make you said that Rafa is done now?? Again what's your proof? Of course bringing in Fed has it's purpose, if you can't see it, sorry I can't help you. Again Rafa is still no.2, ranked ahead of the rest except Nole, so are others done too?

"I am searching for abstract ways of expressing reality, abstract forms that will enlighten my own mystery."

Eric Cantona (the great ManU legend, life poet extraordinnaire..............)

LS,

you bring federer into a discussion on why rafa isn't doing so well? I don't get it. In a fit of pique... why not progress to a more balanced approach? Their styles of play are different or hadn't you noticed?

Having discussed at length what exactly is wrong with rafa, (people do not know, for sure? but can put forward a theory which I will share with you.

a) he doesn't seem too bothered by this situation? - next day he was riding a bike through montreal with a big smile on his face. You seem to be more worried than him!

b) many rafa fans believe it to be a crisis of confidence. I disagree. I think that he is suffering from the violent nature of his play. These are the after effects of a terrible assault on his body.

Soreness and muscle pain are becoming more frequent for him. They go deep and I think that he needs more recovery time than people think. I think this confuses him so that he cannot move so well and this plays on his mind.

It takes him too much effort now to play shots that he was playing confidently less than a year ago. The same will happen to Djokovic soon. It's perfect pain nonetheless because the type of pain that Djokovic is playing through is bringing him results, but not rafa.


Yes. I believe you are right that Roger went out in Rome last year and he has never done well at the Paris Masters, similar to Rafa, who has never won at the WTF, but that is not the argument here.

This was an important turning point for rafa, losing so early.

The proof for rafa is that he is no longer winning finals that he won with ease:

Now your turn.

Fleur, dont you think you're slappng your own face here? You mentioned that Rafa doesn't seem bothered by this loss, so what's this talk that he's finished? So you know him better than he does hinself? Isn't he and his fitness we're talking about here, not yours??

His fans are concerned about his confidence issue, not his fitness issue, and Rafa has proven that he can overcome his confidence issue in the past (2010), so what's this talk about he is done? FYI, both Nole and Murray have also lost in first rounds of tournaments, and look where is Nole now?

Injuries will always strike no matter who you are, as long as you're a professional sportsperson, Fed is also not spared, he has his back problem. Roddick, Gonzo, Hewitt, Nalby, Blake all have their injury problems and they have not even achieved as much as Rafa in their careers. Nole may have his injury problems in future, but who is to say that he won't have a very good career with many slams to his credit?

who is this Fleur? another loser like numero and rfzr?Is rfzr a name? Looks more like an acronym. Rantings from ze rotten or rubbish from zero right? Anyway all three are broken serves who should be avoided 100% of the time.
rfzr, numero, Fleur are broken serves
All losers , you bet
Avoid them if you want to win
ever a game or a set.

They are not Fed or Nole fans. They are just Anti-Rafa.
Sad people.

numero's posts are deliberately provocative, rfzr is mercifully brief but Fleur is a bore.
Shouldn't TT have some filter to keep out bores?

"Why do the Rafans always cry for the moderators? Can't defend yourselves with any counter arguments?"

numero
, 8/14/11 2:54 PM

numero, we know how much you enjoy gutter back n' forth.................but TT (thank goodness) is very clear.......NO PERSONAL INSULTS ALLOWED.

Rafans have to cry for moderators because the Fed fans would otherwise turn the forum into a stinking gutter.
Fed fans can't cry for the moderators because Rafa fans are civilized.

There are 2 current threads on Fed on TT:

http://www.tennistalk.com/en/news/20110814/Federer_looks_to_reb ound_at_Western_%26_Southern_Open

http://www.tennistalk.com/en/blog /Cheryl_Murray/20110810/A_less_Maestro-like_Federer_gets_ignored

Wh y they do not start a lively conversation on there is beyond me................no, they have to come onto a Rafa thread throwing insults and gibberish content around.......

It's not our fault Fed's threads do not attract that much traffic................and we do welcome diverse posters with divergent views and opinions.........but this lot......sigh

They are anti-Rafa, not Fed fans. So obviously they come to Rafa threads to vent their venom. A bunch of sorry losers who can only be negative.

It's not our fault Fed's threads do not attract that much traffic................and we do welcome diverse posters with divergent views and opinions.........but this lot......sigh
rafaisthebest
, 8/14/11 6:13 PM

"we" - you speak "we". you are the chairperson of your student union I suppose?

gibberish yourself!

What is this? that you cannot argue a point and only accept views which are the same as yours?

You don't welcome diverse posters, with diverse views? but large patting on shoulders?

Be Honest RINTB, you detest and abhor honest opinions. You want to bathe in self-opiniated views?

Like the Hoff. Go join him in Germany. Do you sing?

@Fleur
It is such a relief reading youre posts. Do not let the vicious comments towards you let you down. Remember that this site containes some Nadanino's who all have a few multiple id's so they can give you the impression it is all about Nada.

Btw yes Rafafan is in decline and aI am afraid his declination is a litle faster and steeper then Fed's.
Rafa just 25 had to answer to respectible journalists about his decline. He was off course not amused, but it is getting picked up. Undeniably.

hehehehe...............

Fleur sweetie......................take it easy!!!!!!! You really are so funny....................
First, you come on here frothing at the mouth, hurling insults at me. When I politely point out the TT rules regarding personal insults you beat a hasty retreat. Then it is pointed out to you, again, politely, that Rafa is not the first top 5 player to lose in the second round.........you are stumped why? Because you had not thought thru your comments i.e. it was just gibberish!!!!

So you will forgive me if I leave you now, I see you have adequate company!!!!

Bye sweetie.....................just be careful you don't burst an artery fulminating against me......................hehehehehe!

and Sienna.......................not much going on on the Fed threads huh? You are welcome on the Rafa thread.........................join Fleur, you two love-birds make yourselves at home!!!

Goodnight....................

rintb. It will all be sorted in a few weeks time. Fed will peak again at the right time and place. He has to pick his figths more carefully these days. Nada should do the same but his game is not so much about peaks and turning it on at a certain time. Thats why it is a very normal observation about his decline. It has nothing to do with me do'nt liking Rafa because I do like him a lot.

RINTB,

obviously you enjoy reading my posts as otherwise i don't understand why you converse at all!

I won't burst an artery, but obviously you will. I think the Hoff is a fitting name for you.

No counter argument to my previous points hoff?

Fleur you are such a bore. Do some reading or something and try to make your posts interesting.
Fed fans are like Hoff.