Söderling has a really tough draw from the beginning (1st round) till the end (QF)..

^^ he does. Nadal's draw is tough too...Raonic on grass might be a force to be reckoned with.

I find it hard to believe luck was involved in Isner/Mahut part 2. The draw should be changed imo to remove controversies/perceived conspiracies. The last seeds should be given to wildcards and qualifiers ensuring that top players get one of them. In this scenario seed 64 would play 65, 1 would play 128,etc. and controversy would be averted.

Nadal ALWAYS has a tough draw, what else is new. As usual all the other 3 get walk-overs till the Qtrs.

Nadal won't have any trouble getting to the SF.. Raonic may have some weapons but should not trouble Nadal, and Berdych (if he reaches the QF), as we saw last year when he was in his best form, shouldn't be a bigger threat..

Federer shouldn't have any trouble either reaching the SF, the only threats he has are maybe Nalbandian and probably Tsonga.. but he should be able to handle them..

Djokovic-Söderling (if Söderling reaches) and Andy vs Andy should be interesting though!

numero, are you suggestion that the AELTA fixed the draw? That is low........even by your standards.. any controversy out there is in your head mate.......

Don't know about Raonic on grass. He didn't do well in the singles at Halle. On grass movement is important, not only one's serves. Rafa will move Raonic around and tire him out over five sets, exposing his lack of experience on grass and in slams, should they meet in the third round. I think Tsonga plays better than Raonic on grass; and over five sets Rafa can deal with Tsonga, and Raonic.

luckystar, if they were slated to meet later in the tournament, I would agree with you. But I think early on, Raonic's serve could give Nadal a hard time. Still think Rafa will beat him though.

I'm not suggesting they fixed the whole draw but the probability of 2 lower ranked players like Isner and Mahut meeting 2 years in a row is very low. This is good for tv ratings to have this match again wouldn't you say?

It could of course be luck but a standardized draw as I've suggested above would elimanate complaints like those from nadline that Rafa always has a tough draw.

Hey Cheryl, you have said Raonic could be tough. What about Del Potro? Frankly I think Del Potro may lose before the fourth round but if he does go through, he could be quite formidable.
For once I agree with numero about something. The probability of Isner-Mahut happening again is low.
While I did not see this draw, I saw live the AO draw. The seeded players were drawn randomly in brackets by Lendl.
But the unseeded part, the Technology partners seemed to simply flash it on the screen. They could have first shown us the data in the input program i.e. names of all the unseeded players, showed us how they activated the random generation program and then shown the output which would be the randomly generated draw. The whole thing would have taken only a few minutes. But the way they simply flashed the output, seemed to indicate it was prepared in advance and not generated on the spot.

there was contradictory information from Wimbledon site, first it was Rafa/Fed and Nole/Andy in semis... then it changed.

It does need to be more transparent and formalized, to clear all misunderstandings...

I like the how the 4 seeds are placed. We have a chance of a Federer-Murray/Nadal final, and that's what I'm waiting for.

The draw is not that hard for any. There isn't any real 'path of dead' for the 4 seeds. Maybe Djokovic got the worst part, but nothing to worry about.
Federer got Nalby in the 3rd, and that is SCARY. I can expect anything from that match if David is in good shape. Watch out for that match.

Nalby is not scary for any of the top 10 players. He's lost early in most of the tournaments he's played since returning to the tour from his surgery.

Sometimes the draws are extremely suspect of being rigged.

Nalbu is unpredictable, he could lose in the first 2 rounds, but he also can take Roger to 5 sets and even stun him if he is in good shape.

It will be an interesting match to see if he is in form. Otherwise I won't be surprised if he doesn't reach the 3rd.

Nalby has done nothing of late. He to upset Fed on grass? Fat hope, unless Fed is injured again. Delpo can't move well on grass and his stamina is suspect. He needed to split his match with Nole over two days on clay at RG, I don't think he can go the distance on grass, not against Rafa. From what I saw of Rafa on grass this year at Queens, he was playing better than his last year, considering how well Taonga played this year, compared with Lopez last year. Rafa can handle the big servers as long as he serves well to hold his own serves. He did better than Murray against Tsonga in the first set of their respective matches. Murray started slow and lost his own serves in the first set against Tsonga; Rafa was alert from the get go and held his serve for the whole first set. I don't foresee Rafa having problems with Raonic or Delpo on grass.

I think Tsonga may meet Fed in the QF; Nole with Sod as I can't see anyone troubling Nole in the first four rounds. I'm interested to see Gasquet vs Murray in the fourth round. Gasquet playing well these days and he's good on grass. Gasquet may be the surprise package this Wimbledon.

Emiliano55 , 6/17/11 3:08 PM


The draw is not that hard for any. There isn't any real 'path of dead' for the 4 seeds. Maybe Djokovic got the worst part, but nothing to worry about.

DelPo, Raonic and Berdych (who knocked out Fed last year) for Rafa, isn't easy - and if you read the article, Djoko get's the easiest draw.

... as much as I think of it I don't see how they would gain anything at all from rigging the draw for another Isner-Manhut duel. So if the same players get to play we're going to see another marathon match? I don't get it... will they sell it like this?: "..They played the longest match in history... prepare for what's to come this year!"?

Gasquet and Murray will be a mouthwatering prospect, if they repeat their performance in that 5-setter they played a few years ago. Perhaps, Richard will be looking for some revenge. Maybe, it will be Rich on the winning side this time around.

It is a little bit suspect if the Wimbledon Official website first announced that Fed was in Rafa's half and then later it transpired that it was Murray who was drawn in Rafa's half. They need to clarify the situation.

I missed the beginning of the draw live on Wimbledon radio because although it was scheduled for 10 am they hadn't gone on air by 10.15 so by the time I tuned in again they had already drawn Fed and Murray. For the rest of the draw, they drew the discs one at a time and announced them as they went along. It does seem too much of a coincidence that Isner is drawn against Mahut again, I wonder if either of them is happy.

I'd like to think that everything is above board, but you never know. I'm sure the players know exactly what goes on so it might all be above board.

WOW raonic and delpo huh??

It's actually better for rafa to have a tougher draw...he will be very hard to beat after the quarters if he gets through these tough matches...but he really needs to find his bigger serve again at wimby...otherwise he might have a tougher time against the big servers...

Not too worried about rafa's return game...he always stands closer to the baseline at a grass court

Delpo plays at half of his level when moving on grass. Don't expect him to bother Rafa at Wimby.

Nadline, "Nadal always has a tough draw"?? Please.

This time around I do think Federer might have the easiest draw up to the semis. Can't see anybody nearly upsetting him before then. But only slightly easier. All the top 4 should (on paper) make it to the semis comfortably. Unless Soderling suddenly learns to play on grass, which he should be able to do, Djokovic has no one to trouble him. Same with Badal against posssibly Del Potro- not his best surface but he can probably beat a clay courter like Nadal on a good day. Actually the toughest match before the semis might be between Gasquet en Murray. If Gasquet is in form he should be able to win Murray.

First of all, I know anything is possible but forgive for thinking that to suggest Rafa is a claycourter so could be beaten by Delpo on grass is laughable. Delpo has never even made the Qtrs on grass anywhere off the top of my head, Rafa has been in 4 finals at Wimbledon and won 2 titles.

As I said, anything is possible, but the reason you gave BifL doesn't sound credible.

BigL nadal is NOT a clay courter...i hope you know what a clay courter means.

" If Gasquet is in form he should be able to win Murray"

Er no,
I mean it's possible for sure, but its unlikely, unless Mr Murray (for reasons best known only to himself) decides not to `turn up` form wise.
I can envision a 5 setter between them however.
Del Potro being able to `probably` beat Nadal (also known as the undefeated DEFENDING CHAMPION) on grass on a good day?
Ho-Ho-Ho I wouldn't bet my house on it, thats for sure BigL.
Del Potro is a great player, but it ain't happening on the grass for him just yet.
His time to rise shall surely be around NewYork time.
Nadal doesn't always get a tough draw (the US Open draw last year was not a difficult one) but he often does, as does Murray although maybe not this one.
Or the last one, ha!

Everyone always acknowledges that Rafa has a tough draw at the beginning of tournaments then after he's won them they say back-track and say he had an easy draw.

It is a little bit suspect if the Wimbledon Official website first announced that Fed was in Rafa's half and then later it transpired that it was Murray who was drawn in Rafa's half. They need to clarify the situation. (nadline 4:22 PM )

It wasn't 'the Wimbledon Official website' who announced this but the clueless or incompetent employee who was Live Blogging the draw for the site and got the completely wrong end of the stick. Why he took so long (a couple of hours by which time everyone who was there had already published the correct top-4 match ups) to correct the cock-up I know not. I notice that the Daily Mail, which ran with Rafa/Fed and Djk/Mur initially (obviously following the blog), took only 6 minutes to come out with a new piece saying the opposite!

Raonic didn't look too hot on grass at Halle (beaten in the R3 by Petzschner) so I shouldn't be worried about him.

Sod is good on grass. He was just unfortunate to run into Fed or Rafa at Wimbledon most of the time, in 2007 & 2010 ran into Rafa, in 2009 ran into Fed. In fact other than the top four guys, both Sod and Berdych are the ones who are good on all surfaces. I also hope to add Gasquet and Wawrinka to the list though they're not as good as the six of them. Before Gasquet can meet Murray he may have to beat Stan first, that match will be interesting as it'll be a battle of the SHBH.

I also think that Sod can survive his draw until he meets Nole, as Petzschner is one fella who always get injured during matches and I don't see him beating Sod in straight sets so going the distance may be a problem for Petz.

Del Potro's game doesn't work well on grass. I wouldn't consider him a serious threat to Nadal. Actually, I think Nalbandian is more of a threat to Federer than DelPo is to Rafa...and I don't think Nalbs is much of a threat (as much as it pains me to admit it. Not that I'm a closet Nalbandian fan or anything...).

Wimbledon officials didn't make a mistake on the website...it was the fellow or gal they had blogging about it that didn't understand how the numbering system of the draw works. Nothing nefarious, I'm sure.

Soderling is decent on grass. Should he play Nole in the quarters, could make for a great match.

And I expect Gasquet-Muzza to be a showstopper...it usually is with those two. All in all, a good draw this year. Looking forward to Monday.

Maybe they should have a side show with Karlovic, Isner, Raonic and Mahut so that others can get on with real tennis. Any big server can apply. Lol

Holdserve, Delpo doesn't like playing on grass. He's been quoted as saying it's "tough for South Americans".

Thanks Cheryl and mara002.
In other words, Raonic is the only real danger before the semis because I don't think Berdych can stop Rafa. Then it is Murray. Wish he had been on the other side. Federer in the semis would have meant Nadal in the final.
Not sure Nadal can get past Murray or Djokovic can get past Federer. Looks like tennis gods are favoring Federer.

Re : Milos

Poor guy has no experience at Wimbledon. Like him but think Fabio will most likely take him out first round. :(

If he does get to face Rafa he could provide an Isner-like challenge. His serve is huge and the court should play a little faster the first week before it gets torn up too much plus his mental toughness is excellent for a young player.

Re : Delpo

He's never done well on grass. Don't be surprised if Simon takes him out. Plus fitness is always a problem for him and there shouldn't be any matches stretched over 2 days now that they have a roof.

Raonic is too tall for grass. Rafa will slice and slice him to death. Nowadays players are playing more a baseline game than the S& V game in the past. The tall players like Krajcek and Goran can survive in the past because of the S& V game. Staying at the baseline will allow the players to slice and keep the ball low making it difficult for tall players like Delpo and Raonic. Both players will be busy bending down and scooping the ball all the time with the low bounces on the grass court. Their saving grace may be their serves but Rafa, like Murray and Nole, will figure out how to return their serves in no time. Rafa vs Isner on clay is a bit different as the ball bounces higher on clay and Isner need not bend his body all the time to return Rafa's shots.

One more thing about Rafa vs Murray on grass, if Rafa plays aggresively and with confidence, he'll beat Murray. Murray doesn't seem to be able to sustain any aggressive play for long, ie throughout a best of five sets match. To beat Rafa on grass one needs to be aggressive throughout the whole match, is difficult to do against Rafa, which explains why since the 2007 final where Fed beat Rafa, no one has beaten Rafa yet on grass at Wimbledon. Some may come close but still lose in the end, for Rafa is really hard to beat on clay and on Wimbledon grass (not Queens grass though).

Cheryl Murray: Djokovic?s section is the weakest. You must be kidding Cherryl, Novak's section is probably the most difficult after Rafa's. Roger's is definitely the weakest : Nalbandian, Youhzny and Ferer pose no threat to Federer. He has clear path to semis.

I am not going to worry about Raonic or Delpo until it actually happens. They have to get through to meet him first. I think Raonic could pose a challenge. He has a game that is suited for grass, but is lacking experience. He has shown mental toughness in his matches and could go out there thinking he has nothing to lose. However, he can't beat Rafa in a best three out of five match.

If Berdych gets through to the quarterfinals, I don't think he has a chance against Rafa. Murray will be tough in the semis, but that's thinking way ahead at this point.

Nadals draw is being made to look a lot tougher than it is. Raonic is the only ?dangerous? opponent in Rafa?s draw until the QF. And Raonic is not ready that experienced on the big stage. JMDP would be a rough draw if this were was at any of the other 3 major locations, but it?s Wimbledon, where he?s never made it past the second round, so calling him a rough draw for the two-time champion is pure comedy. As far as Murray, he has a tough potental match up with gasquet, however I still think he makes it to the semis. As far as the bottom half, tsonga is the only threat in federers quarter, but trying to predict when and where his hot streaks are going to occur is asking for a massive headache.

All the ex greats picking Roger to wn..Borg picked up, now Sampras picked him too..They all cite the reason as seeing him watch play in RG and the way he was aggressive and played his best ever even though the best sufficed against Novak but not against Rafa as he is the best ever on claya nd t is not easy dictating him and tough against him.
Even more surprised that on tennis.com, 16% predict Rafa to go out before the semis v/s 13% for Novak and 5% for Roger

Is Rafa an underdog for this Wimby? Or is it that all these people and greats are seeing something I am not able to see?

I guess the top four will make it to the QF at least. Fed may meet Tsonga in the QF, Tsonga is playing well on grass at the moment, and I believe he has the stamina and skill to make it to the QF, like last year. Nole vs Sod, as I believe Sod is good enough to make it to the QF at least, again like last year. His big serve and big forehand will see him through to the QF. I'm not so sure about Berdych this time, as Kohl is playing well and wins Halle the year. I think it will be Rafa vs Berdych or Kohl. For Murray's quarter, it's most probably Murray vs Roddick or maybe even Gasquet vs Roddick, though I think there's a Monfils in this section and I've no idea how well can Monfils play on grass.

What about predictions on this site for Wimby 2011?

Mine is Rafa or Roger..dont see any one else taking it..If either reach the final without the other on the opposite side..they take it..if both reach the final..tough toss up..slight advantage to Fed as his game works on grass unless he mentally folds up

I think there will be more upsets then ever. The begin of the season was pretty boring, and it is time for change. If big 4 meets in SF again, it would be miracle or a sign that they should get wildcards for QF till the rest of season.

atg..whom do u thunk will get upset?

As Goran said it, if it is Fed and Rafa in the final, Rafa will win. Those so called experts pick Fed because of what they saw at the FO, how well Fed played there and how not so well Rafa played there. However, they've not seen how Rafa played on grass at Queens, and they've not seen Fed and Nole on grass at all this year. It is just wishful thinking that some people want Rafa to be out before the semi, so that Fed can win his 7th Wimbledon, for they know only Rafa can stop Fed in the final. Rafa is here to stay, for he knows this is the last hurdle for him to overcome in order to defend his no.1 ranking. After Wimbledon he'll have 500 points added to his ranking points from the Barca tournament. What he needs is for Nole to lose early or Fed to stop Nole in the semi. It's a different Rafa we're seeing here, from the one at the beginning of the clay season right up to the beginning of FO. For, at that time, he was faced with so many points to defend and his confidence was low after suffering two consecutive losses to Nole on the hard courts. After winning his 6th FO, he had earned 4,700 points ie he lost only 300 points from last year, so now he was left with the Wimbledon points to defend. It's a lot less burdensome now, and given Rafa's fighting spirit, I believe he'll fight to the very end to defend his Wimbledon title and his no.1 position.

BTW If Fed- Djoko reach in the semis and square off, I feel Djoko will be motivated for strong revenge..and I can see him giving it his all against Roger..He will really be gunning for revenge

And yes in RG..Djoko was the favourite and pressure was on him and he folded..Roger was the underdog and played freely..but in Wimby tables will turn and Fed will be the favourite and it will be Djoko who can play more freely..Will Djoko pull off the upset?

sanju, the answer is no, because Nole simply can't match Fed in terms of movement and game on grass, at least not when Fed can play as well as he did at the FO. Nole can't balance well on grass and he's also vulnerable at the earlier rounds, remember his match against O. Rochus last year in the first round, where it went to five sets and ended as the latest match that was ever played at Center Court?

Rafa and Fed can handle pressure better than anyone. Nole has had a great run this year, but grass hasn't been his best surface. Hoping that Fed will feel the pressure should they meet in the semisis wishful thinking. Fed is even better on grass than on clay, so he will have the advantage over Nole. It will take something special from Nole to beat Fed.

Rafa is in a great place now after finally getting through the clay season with 5000 points to defend. The hard part is behind him and he has his historic sixth RG title to give him a huge boost of confidence.

I agree with lucky that the pressure is off Rafa now. Defending 2000 points at Wimbledon is a much easier hill to climb than 7000 points. I don't think Rafa will get knocked out before the semis, whatever any stupid poll says. He has his #1 ranking on the line, but more important is that he is the defending champion. He will fight like hell to defend this title. He didn't get that chance in 2009 and he will have that in his mind.

Also, I really don't know why people have to characterize any comments from people who think that Rafa has some potential challenges in his draw, as pure comedy. Everyone knows that grass isn't Delpo's strength, however he should not be dismissed out of hand completely. Rao onic does pose a possible threat due to his big serve.

I am anxious to see how Rafa looks in the early rounds. He usually takes a while to work his way into a tournament. I wonder if the win at RG will have put aside for good the doubts and problems that plagued Rafa throughout that tournament.

The draw has brought chance to see the best match ups in 2011 in the Semi-Finals if seedings hold good. Battle tested Murray can give a real fight this time round. Just as Djokovic has become a tougher person after U.S Open, Murray's showing at Roland Garros shows a similar trend. He is ahead of Rafa in first serve, return of serve, anticipation and change of pace. Rafa is ahead in ferocity of shots, mental toughness, match temperament and killer instinct. Murray plays best when facing Rafa and therein lies a danger for Rafa. If he were to play like A.O 2010, home crowd can sustain him at higher level of play for longer hours.
Federer vs. Djokovic: They have taken revenge in alternation. The pressure of 42 will no longer be there for Djokovic. If one were to say that Federer is a better player on grass, that can also prove as hollow as saying Rafa would win over Djokovic in Madrid and Rome since he was the best clay court player. Extrapolations from past serve only to an extent and can not go on for ever. The surface does suit the all court and all shot game of Federer, but there is something more than that.
It would be great if, like at Roland Garros, all the seeds reach the semi-finals.

The surface does matter. How's Murray better match up to Rafa than Fed, when Rafa is 11-4 against Muraay, and Fed is 6-8 against Murray?? What's this myth that Murray can play better against Rafa than he's against Fed? Rafa has beaten Murray four times at slams, twice at Wimbledon, once in AO and once in FO. Murray has beaten Rafa once at the AO and once at the USO. Do note that Rafa and Murray have never met in a slam final. The two times Fed beat Murray at slams, they're in the finals. Murray seems unable to perform well in slam finals, all three of them. It seems that he let the pressure and expectations get to him in slam finals. If Fed is to meet Murray in the semifinal of a slam, who knows Murray may get the better of Fed!

eskay, it's not comparing to past years, but comparing Fed's performance this year at the FO, his least favorite surface, is enough to tell us a fit and healthy Fed playing well on grass is able to beat anyone, save maybe a fit and healthy and playing well Rafa. Both Fed and Nole have not played any warm up tournament on grass this year, there's no evidence to indicate that Nole can suddenly play well on grass this year. He may have improved his game overall but has he improved on his movement on grass? We have to wait for their first few matches to gauge their level on grass this year, till then one would favor Fed over Nole on grass at this point.

Is Rafa an underdog for this Wimby? Or is it that all these people and greats are seeing something I am not able to see?

sanju , 6/18/11 9:04 AM


These former players are all guarding their legacies. Rafa has already equalled Borg's FO titles, he doesn't want him to win anymore Wimbledon titles in case he matches him there as well, especially as Borg doesn't have any AO or USO titles. Sampras can't guard his legacy against Federer because he's already lost that battle, although Sampras still has one more Wimbledon title than Roger. With Rafa, Sampras doesn't want him to do well at Wimbledon because he never did anything at RG.

If these predictions meant anything then I would be worried, but they do not count for a row of beans. Borg always tips against Rafa anywhere. He tipped Berdych to win Wim last year and also Djokovic at the USO, of course everytime Rafa is up against anyone I can bet my house that Borg will tip the other person.

McEnroe has no legacy as such to protect so he tends to be a little bit more circumspect, except that when asked by the British Press he always tips Murray. I remember Bob Brett saying at the USO last year that Murray was the only one who could contend with Federer for the title, we all know how that panned out - Murray going out in the 3rd round and Roger not making the final.

Del Potro is dreadful on grass

Good one nadline. I think we as fans for the players know better than these so called experts, simply because we observe our favorite player(s) closely. Not only the favorite players but also their close rivals or opponents, so much so that we are well aware of what each of them is capable of or not capable of doing. I think our predictions hold more water than those from the so called experts!

i would agree with sampras borg that federer is favourite but ivanesevic has a point as well if nadal plays federer he has the edge due to left handed top spin to federer backhand but nadal has more chances of getting out before final than federer but other than murray no one looks like beating the spaniard so we can have a wonderful wimbledon but i dont see the title going out of these two i think it will either be federer or nadal

What about predictions on this site for Wimby 2011?


Lets predict naa..

@luckystar, 'but comparing Fed's performance this year at the FO, his least favorite surface, is enough to tell us a fit and healthy Fed playing well on grass is able to beat anyone, save maybe a fit and healthy and playing well Rafa."

Clay is not Fed's least favorite surface. dunno how you came to this conclusion that it is, but FYI, Fed grew up on clay. Rog has stated many times that he likes clay. I also feel that Fed can beat a healthy Rafa who's playing well on grass. He's done it before, and he can do it again. Rog is a dangerous opponent for anyon e on both clay and grass. The man's good on any surface.

@nadline, "with Rafa, Sampras doesn't want him to do well at Wimbledon because he never did anything at RG." This is the most ridiculous assumption I've ever read. What's RG got to do with Wimbledon? I suppose you'll be saying that Borg doesn't want Rafa to win the USO because he's never won there? You sound very paranoid.

federer for 7th wimbledom IMO

Personally........I am quite happy for the "cognoscenti" to go with Fed as fav..........ALL (with the exception of Borg btw nadline who went with Rafa from the get-go, maybe he was trying to jinx him) had Nole winning RG2011 (including our very own Ricky until he saw the light when Nole crashed out in the semis), and look how that turned out.

All of a sudden Raonic, JMDP....and Berdy (?????) are supposed to give Rafa a hard time? Sounds to me more like wishful thinking. First of all, Rafa does NOT underestimate any player so he will be super-attentive. As for the JMDP hoodoo, i think it's time people let go of the nostalgia, it's really old............

The one guy who gives me fits in Rafa's half is Andy M. Bear in mind that even if Rafa has a comfortable H2H, the matches tend to be close i.e. when playing Rafa, Andy FIGHTS (unlike some GOATS who shall remain nameless) and the law of averages says he is going to get his one of these days..........

For me, if Rafa meets and beats Andy M in the semis, he will lift his 11th GS title regardless of who is across the net in the final.

By the way......where are our regular Nole fans, awfully quiet aren't they? Oh I get it......reality bites........as Nole himself said recently, "Rafa and Fed raise their games in Slams". For what it's worth, I actually fancy Nole to get the better of Fed if they meet in the semis........and then go down to Rafa in the finals...

Can't wait for Monday...........Vamos!!!!!

scoretracker, just look at Fed's records on all surfaces and tell me which is his worst surface? His game is more suited to hard and grass. Even before Rafa became a force on clay, how's Fed doing on clay compared to his grass and hard courts results?

How can you compare the Rafa of 2006/2007 Wimbledon to the current Rafa on grass? He has won two Wimbledon titles since then, and how can you compare the current Fed to the Fed of 2006/2007 Wimbledon? In my opinion a peak form Rafa can beat a non peak Fed on grass, not to mention on clay. Who ever wins will depend on how they play during the match, and Rafa has a way to bring out the worst from Fed, and Fed the best from Rafa, that's all I want to say at this point.

I think the top four guys will play their hearts out when they meet each other. None of them will think that doing the minimum is going to get them the win over fellow top four guys.

To me, on clay Rafa is still the best, followed by Fed/Nole and then Murray. On grass, it's Rafa/Fed followed by Murray and then Nole. On hard courts, I'll fancy Fed/Nole, then Rafa/Murray. None of their matches are easy ones. Rafa vs Fed is never easy, Nole vs Fed too. So are Rafa vs Nole, Rafa vs Murray. Nole vs Murray isn't easy either as the recent Rome match told us. Fed vs Murray, H2H 6-8, nothing easy either. I don't get why Rafa vs Murray is any more tougher than say Rafa vs Fed. Didn't Rafa beat Murray and lost to Fed at the WTF last year? Didn't Rafa need to go the distance at Madrid to beat Fed, like he did at MC to beat Murray?

@holdserve, are you one of those people they pay on some blogsites to incite? One thing's for certain, there will always be a non-sensical comment from you whenever a Fed fan expresses an opinion. Your senseless baiting is extremely juvenile IMO

@luckystar, the only reason Fed's results on clay are not as good as his records on other surfaces is due to Nadal. Rog gets to the finals of most clay tourneys only to be beaten by Nadal. Look at their H2H and see how many of Roger's losses are on clay, and who beat him. Then, tell me if clay is his least favorite surface.

scoretracker, you don't seem to be able to read my post properly. Didn't I ask you to check his record on clay before Rafa became a force on clay, ie before 2005?what had Fed won on clay before 2005? I believe twice in Hamburg, a Masters 1000 event then, and what had he won on grass and on hard courts? Two Wimbledon(grass),one AO and one USO(outdoor hard) and two
TMC (indoor hard). So which is his worst surface? He may grow up on clay but his favorite surface is grass and I believe he favors hard court over clay. Just look at how he plays his game, he's one who likes to finish his point asap, and clay is one surface that longer rallies are possible and so his opponents would try to engage him in long rallies if possible. It's a more physically demanding surface and if he's so good on grass and hard, why would he like to spend longer time on clay to win titles when he can do so more economically on other surfaces? Which may explain why Fed usually plays the minimum required on clay each year.

@luckystar, to make the argument that Fed's least favorite surface being clay, is inaccurate. Least favorite means not liking one thing as much as another. However, this is simply not true in Roger's case, as he does like clay, even though his results are not as stellar as on other surfaces, and this is only due to Nadal. I've heard him state repeatedly that he loves clay as he grew up on it. He might not like his results on clay, but that should not mean it's his least favorite surface.

@luckystar, "Didn't I ask you to check his record on clay before Rafa became a force on clay, ie before 2005."

You did that, where?

I did in my previous post, asking you to check his results on all surfaces, and even before Rafa became a force on clay!!

Well you can argue all you want about Fed's favorite surface, nobody knows except Fed himself. Your definition of favorite may be different from mine anyway, and I fail to see how clay can be his favorite surface when he clearly says he loves Wimbledon and he has most success in Wimbledon and in the USO. Anyway I'll stop here.

For all those worried about Delpo being in nadal's quarter, pls chk Delpo's record in wimby, wven in his best days.(2009) he never made it to R3...

So threatening nadal is different story..

Steve Tignor too has predicted a Roger v/s Rafa final with Roger winnng his 7th

But he has covered himself well saying ' If Federer serves lights out' ;-)

Hey when's the draw analysis coming???

scoretracker, after I had set out in detail the reasoning behind my claim that Fed played in a weak era, you asked where was the weak era. Which in effect was demanding an explanation from me again. And then you insisted you had not asked for an explanation.
Just like now you are insisting luckystar never aked you to verify Fed's pre- 2005 results on clay. That shows you did not understand anything of his/her logic and in the delusional fashion of Fed fans ignored the logic and senselessly insisted on your own illogical statements.

Where are Ricky's & Cheryl's Wimbledon field predictions? Am I missing those?

Oh - I see someone else has also requested draw analysis. I don't feel so silly now.

mara,

I think Ricky usually waits until the qualifiers are determined so he can make a thorough analysis.

Federer made a dig at Djoko..already mind games on

"I think that's maybe something that's a bit different than maybe in the past, where maybe one of the top four guys wouldn't feel so comfortable on grass. But this year it seems like all of us are, which is a good thing.

"Maybe [a few years ago] Rafa was still looking a little bit for how good he was on grass. We all knew he was good on clay - excellent on clay really - very good on hard courts, and grass you just never really get a chance to really prove yourself. I think as time went by, he showed how good he was; won a couple times here in the meantime. And Murray's game is very natural for this surface."

As for the fourth member of the quartet at the top of the tennis world right now, Federer couldn't resist another dig at Djokovic. "I think Djokovic has always been great, but nothing extraordinary yet. But with the run he's on, obviously there's a lot of possibilities for him as well here," he said.

I think sometimes people parse words too much. I think lucky was saying that clay being Fed's "least favorite" surface meant that he doesn't have nearly as many wins as on grass and hard. She wasn't saying that he doesn't like clay, merely that his results reflect this as the surface on which he has the least wins.

Sometimes things are made more complicated than they really are.

Here is my prediction: Djokovic will beat Federer and Murray will beat Nadal in semis. Final, Djokovic over Murray in 3.

As long as Federer doesn't win, I am happy.

There's no way Djokovic could beat Federer in grass. He never showed a really good level at Wimbledon, despite making 2 semis. I don't event think he could beat Sod if the sweade reached the quarters.

Anyways, if both makes it to the semis, Federer will rip Nole. Murray-Nadal will be really interesting to watch, anything can happen in that match. I'm really waiting for that match to happen.

It is going to be a close game but Novak will prevail! He is more than ready for a sweet revenge with vengeance.

What part of Djokovic doesn't play that well on grass you don't get ? He doesn't stand a chance despite being hot and all that stuff.

rafaisthebest... why are you so worried about Nole's fans???
Reality bites??? C'mon... I promised you lecture in humility...
Not only you are lacking humility, but memory obviously is not your good side... let me remind you... 4 time in row!!!
What is the point in commenting and posting whisfull thinking... we don't know Nole's and Rafa's lvl on grass this year. We didn't see them.
After first round things will be much clearer:)... even Fed is question, we only saw Muzza on grass. One 250 points tournament and he is favorite??? ... where was he from october last year?
So all these posts and expert analyzes are simply whishfull thinking... nothing more.
Maybe I should wrote 20 post about Nole's beating everyone in Wimby and call it expert predictions???
Everyone for his own man... that's it.

Emiliano55...
"Federer will rip Nole..."
"He doesn't stand a chance..."
Man... you are really terrified with possibility of Nole Rafa finale... lol!

Emiliano 55, dude you made me laugh! Let's wait and see, and than hopefully you will get it!

Thanks NNY, that's what I meant.

Fed vs Nole, I give the edge to Fed. Rafa vs Murray, I give the edge to Rafa. Still there are other players around, like Sod, Tsonga, Berdych, Gasquet, Roddick, Monfils etc. The tennis.com magazine(hard copy) was giving a coverage on Fed, starting with his 2001 win over Sampras, and mentioned this was the tenth year since, and if Fed wins his 7th Wimbledon, it will be historic. Well historic maybe not only in tying his record with Sampras at Wimbledon but also improve his slam count to 17. No coverage was given to the defending men's champion, Rafa Nadal (even Serena Williams the women's defending champion has a full write up about her achievements so far). Seems that many don't think Rafa has a chance at Wimbledon this year. He winning this year would also be historical as he'll tie Borg in his achievement in the number of slams, ie 11. Also he'll tie with Borg in the number of channel slams he achieves, ie 3 channel slams! So Rafa will tie Borg's three rrcords if he wins Wimbledon this year, ie 6 FO, 3 channel slams and 11 slam titles! Amazing that Fed or Rafa can have their own records to chase after.

Novak's level hasn't dropped one bit despite losing to Federer at the French. Roger served extremely well against Novak and on top of it, 4 days break contributed to Rogers win. I do not think he will be able to serve so well against Nole again. Novak in 4.

lucky,

It's not that many don't think Rafa stands a chance. It's just that tennis neutrals don't want to see him win. :)

luckystar, take your mind back to last year. Did anyone think Rafa was going to win Wimby? At least this year, I read somewhere that the bookies have him as the odds-on favorite despite all the hype about Federer who is behind Rafa and ahead of Djoko in the books.

número, those are not tennis neutrals, those are pro Fed supporters. For one neutral tennis fan to support Fed, there's another to support Rafa. Just look at how quickly Rafa's fan base grows by the days! Stop fooling yourself, one day Rafa's fans may outnumber Fed's! It's just that people like to see history being made. It's just like most tennis neutrals are happy that Rafa gets his career slam last year at the USO, it may be once in a life time thing, to see two tennis greats getting their career slams within one year of each other.

zare
, 6/19/11 2:51 AM

Who let the psycho out.........

I knew it wouldn't take much to get you coming out snorting like a wounded rhino............you are so predictable you put numero in the shade. Any sane person (which you are clearly not) reading my post would not have detected any mischief, provocation whatever u wanna call it. But you, you are so prickly any mention of Nole (even if it is in a complimentary context) and red mist takes over! Chill dude.......Nole does not even know you exist......He has bigger ambitions than your 4- wins-in-a-row fixation. You haven't heard? Everybody (except you of course) has forgotten about that em, streak...............hot tranding topic is Rafa winner of RG2011...............the one Nole was not good enough to reach the finals of, remember? The same Nole who excelled recently at lower-tier Masters 1000s? Yeah, that one, the same one who chokes when confronted by Fed or Rafa on the BIGGER stage.

So, go on darling, you satisfy yourself with the crumbs and leave the fat, juicy steaks to the big boys!

Yes, I am curious where Nole's fans are.....and incidentally, are you the spokesperson for Nole's fanbase? If not, stfu and go take your medication, you're clearly off it, again!!!

There are reasonable, lucid, intelligent Nole fans out there who CAN engage with other fans without frothing at the mouth. Those are the ones my post was directed at, not you.

Now, if you will excuse me..........I have more important matters to do, like follow the fortunes of my 10 GS, 6-time RG winner, winner of 4 of the last 5 GS, 2-time Wimby champ, 4-time Wimby finalist...........RAFA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No wonder you don't like the predictions game........he, he, he!!!!!!!!!!!

luckystar,

You are more than welcome! I am glad that it didn't seem presumptuous to you that I jumped in to try to clarify the issue. I think you make your points well, if some people want to hear what you are really saying.

I also loved that you brought up the history that Rafa can make if he wins Wimbledon this time. It seems to have been forgotten or overlooked. Not only will be tie Borg for total grand slam titles, he will also tie Rod Laver who also has eleven. He has a lot of reason to want to win this and Rafa should never be counted out when he has made four finals and won two titles.

I see that we have some Nole fans who are somewhat upset. Feel free to come on here and stand up for your guy and make your argument. I think it's fair to make Fed and Rafa the favorites to win Wimbledon. Nole has yet to even get to a final. However, I do expect him to come out and show the great form he had during his winning streak. I am not writing him off by any means. However, I have to give the edge to Fed on grass. He has a proven track record - six titles should not be dismissed. That deserves proper respect.

This is why I feel much more comfortable making predictions once I have at least seen the top players in one or two matches. Then I can gauge where their games are at and how they look. I certainly think Nole is in the mix here and has a chance. Murray will be motivated to try and get his first slam win.

As far as people not predicting a Rafa win, I could care less. I just want to see how he looks in his first few matches and then I will know what his chances are. There is no way that he should be counted out here at all. He is the defending champion.

Novak's level hasn't dropped one bit despite losing to Federer at the French. Roger served extremely well against Novak and on top of it, 4 days break contributed to Rogers win. I do not think he will be able to serve so well against Nole again. Novak in 4.
pro59
, 6/19/11 3:16 AM

I am inclined to agree with you pro59, except the bit about the 4 days rest contributing to Nole's defeat by Fed at the FO...........poor excuse. Nole was out-gunned, out-hassled, out-thought, end of. Nole chose to let the red mist cloud his thinking after the time violation call and Roger made him pay.

However, I have a feeling Nole will approach Wimby, especially having seen the draw, with revenge on his mind. He will invest ALL to make sure RG2011 is not repeated........and therein lies Rafa's advantage, if he gets through to the finals, Nole will have left everything (especially the emotional bit) on the turf beating Roger he will be easy pickings for Rafa.

Nativenewyorker
, 6/19/11 8:54 AM

Don't forget our Rafa is a notorious slow starter..............people may see him "struggle" against a couple of lower-tier players and they will conclude he is having a terrible tourny and write off his chances, like they did at Wimby 2010, RG 2011 and are doing for Wimby 2011 on the basis of his 4th quarter exit at Queens!

Fed and Nole are the exact opposite.......they come out firing from the get-go, in fact we will see the obligatory bagel, breadstick servings to opponents from these 2 in the early rounds but then as the tourny unwinds their levels tail-off and Rafa raises his. That's his slam mo.

For me key to assessing Rafa's prospects are 1) is he fully fit physically? 2) is he emotionally vested i.e. does he want this?

So far I am putting a check on both, especially on #2.............like you I think RAFA WANTS THIS. There is such a difference to his attitude post RG2011 compared to say, post Rome Masters 1000s 2011. He is updating his Facebook page literally every hour or so and he sounds relaxed, not over confident, just relaxed.

I don't know, but I am feeling a Nole-Rafa final...............

Vamos!!!!!!!

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/tennis/patrick-mouratoglou/article/1956/

Rafa fans......here is a very good analysis of how Nole has been able to steal a march on Rafa recently. Of course the same analysis (and more!) has been done by Rafa and Uncle T........and they will have an answer, if not already!!

When Rafa lacks confidence he gets to the final when he is fully confident, he wins the title.

Of course by predicting a Nole-Rafa final I am conceding Nole will be the new #1 post Wimby 2011........which I think he be, and deservedly so.

@nadline, "with Rafa, Sampras doesn't want him to do well at Wimbledon because he never did anything at RG." This is the most ridiculous assumption I've ever read. What's RG got to do with Wimbledon? I suppose you'll be saying that Borg doesn't want Rafa to win the USO because he's never won there? You sound very paranoid.

scoretracker , 6/18/11 3:17 PM


Call me paranoid, but that's exactly what I'm saying. The more current players achieve the lower the pecking order the greats of the past go. If you cared to read my post properly, you'd see that I was responding to sanju saying "Is Rafa an underdog for this Wimby? Or is it that all these people and greats are seeing something I am not able to see?"

If Rafa excels on all surfaces then it makes Sampras look even less impressive because he wasn't able to win on clay so he (Sampras) did not excel on all surfaces. Similarly, Laver is still trying to hang on to his legacy which is now threatened by Roger and Rafa at the moment. Remember how Laver tried hard to distinguish between a calendar slam and a non-calendar slam when Rafa seemed like he was going to win a Grand Slam at the beginning of the year?

Got it?

pro59, rafaisthebest, luckystar

I know Fed is a supreme grasscourt player and his 6 titles speak for that, but I too have a feeling that if both Fed and Djoko reach the semis, Djoko will upset Fed..He will have revenge on his mind bigtime and lets not forget he will be the underdog in this match and pressure will be on Fed being the favourite..In RG Fed was the underdog and played freely

Novak wont have any streak pressur either..Yes he will be No 1 if he wins the semi, so that may play on his mind..but I think he will overcome that

I even think Murray can give Rafa a hard hard run for his money

Also lets rewind back to 2007 Wimby final between Rafa and Fed..Who gaveRafa a chance there? We all know what happened.. Rafa took it to 5..outplayed Fed for major part..and in the final set had 2 break points to go a break up but blew it somehow.

So it all depends on that day, the mental state ..After all tennis is a very menta game and not just a skill oriented game

sanju
, 6/19/11 10:07 AM

I actually think the prospect of becoming #1 if reaches the finals will be added motivation for Nole. He does NOT have to beat Rafa to claim #1, all he has to do is reach the final, and we all know how Nle has hungered for that prize. So, I think he will not want to let the opportunity slip this time round. Of course, he may be playing the best Wimby champ to date, Roger, and this will make for a fascinating match!


Like you, I also think Muray is tired of losing to Rafa on the big stage and will go all out to win. It doesn't help that Rafa brings out the best in Muzza. This is why I say if Rafa gets past Muzza (should they meet), he will lift the trophy.

Agree Rafsisthebest..biggest stmbling block to Rfa is Murray..He is always a dangerous proposition for Rafa..Thats why I am secretly hoping either Gasquet or Wawrinka take him out :-). They both have it in them to take him out..

I am having a hard time getting my head round some pundits' predictions of a Fed-Rafa final and Fed winning!! I do not get this........sure Fed's performance in the FO final was much improved but it was still not good enough to win. So their reasoning is: much improved performance on clay against Rafa plus favourite surface at Wimby equals defeat for Rafa?

Head scratch..........Rafa annihilated Fed in the 4th set at RG, in fact Fed, as he is wont to do, mentally imploded. Where is the evidence he will hold up mentally at Wimby when those loopy forehands keep raining on his backhand? Rafa has been in 4 Wimby finals........so he is pretty comfortable on grass too, no?

I wish these so-called experts would offer some sober anaysis and predictions based on such, rather than sentimentality.

If we say Murray always plays his best against Rafa, then we can also say that Rafa brings his best when playing against Murray, if not how can Rafa have a 11-4 H2H against Murray? Look at their slam encounters, if we ignore that 2007 AO (as the Murray then wasn't the Murray now), Rafa has beaten Murray in straight sets on all three that he won, Wimbledon 08, 10 and FO 11. Murray has to go four sets at the USO to beat Rafa and Muray was serving some twenty over aces during the whole match to beat Rafa. Murray's AO victory over Rafa was in straight sets, do notice both played aggressively but what Rafa was lacking then was confidence. He broke Murray's serves first but didn't manage to hold his own serves as unlike Murray, he couldn't rely on any clutch serving to get himself out of trouble.

Right now, after winning his sixth FO, I don't think Rafa would have any issue with his own confidence. Furthermore he's a big match player, he always plays the big points better than Murray, and so he's able to beat Murray in straight sets despite Murray playing well during the matches. Rafa will be eager to defend his Wimbledon title, couple that with his relentless fighting spirit, it will be difficult for Murray to upset Rafa in the semifinal.

I still think Fed will prevail over Nole on grass, simply because Fed always plays his best on grass unless he's not physically well. On grass one needs to be more aggressive and so Fed may rush Nole into more errors than their recent FO encounter. Fed simply has more games on grass to handle everyone not named Rafa.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150216216666026&set=a.4561613 51025.251362.64822581025&type=1

Isn't Uncle Tony evil? First he drives Rafa on the practice court and STILL expects him to cook dinner when the day is over! I know this is all part of making Rafa stay grounded but..............this is a bit much, no?

Some commentators and ex-players feel that the more they tip players and boost their chances the more they are likely to take the trophy home. I would hazard a guess that the players themselves take absolutely no notice of any of this kind of thing, they know more than anyone that it's what happens on court that matters, I'm sure if Nole walks on court with Rafa in the final he's not going to feel any more relaxed because Borg says he's the favourite, for example.

It all makes interesting reading but ultimately has no efffect on anything.

I am getting the distinct impression that a lot of people are coming round to Johnny Mac's conclusion that this Wimby is Rafa's to lose................and this is not doing their dispositions any good............

Stay healthy and focussed, Rafa............................slam #11, with a bullet.

Wimby's here! tomorrow's schedule..........

http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/scores/schedule/i ndex.html

"Sometimes things are made more complicated than they really are"

Look who's talking. From the short time blogging here, I've learned that one thing's a certainty, whenever a Fed fan has a discussion with a Rafafan, three of the Rafafans will always butt in and complicate matters., holdserve, NNY, and rafaisthebest The best Rafafans girls on this site. I guess it can't be helped. I'm very good at ignoring people, and it's not that I don't have an answer, it's simply because I don't like argument, but some here, thrive on arguing non-stop. I'll be doing a lot of ignoring from now on, especially holdserve and NNY.

FYI, if any of you can't understnad, I was asking luckystar where in her initial post she mentioned 2005. It's her responsiblity to back up her argument with facts not for me to go and check them, but interfering holdserve and NNY couldn't see this.

scoretracker, you don't deserve your handle for you are having a poor tracking brain about scores. Look at this ------> Roger has won 3 AO, 6W, 6 USO and 1 FO, with that SIMPLE count you can't come up with a SIMPLE and SOUND conclusion yet you blindly insisting that FO is NOT Roger's weakest among all 4 GS?

I know where you are heading to, you are just like other idiot fedfans who keep on trumpeting Nadal is just a claycourter and you use that excuse to justify Roger's deficiency. I tell you what scoretracker, that guy whom you always addressed claycourter has defeated your man fair and square on all surfaces whilst you can't say the same thing for your guy (shame). He even made your man like a helpless old woman crying at AO, your man literally looked too ugly crying.

It's not for you to decide what I do or don't deserve. Another fangirl who can't read. I'm stating that clay is not Roger's least favorite surface, as he's done well on clay and was only stopped by nadal. Least favorite surface and results is not the same thing. How many FO finals and Masters finals did Rog get to, to be stopped by Nadal? How could that make it his least favourite surface? it would be his least favorite surface if he got knocked out in the first round. Do all of you get that?

I would concede if the original discussion mentioned it's the surface he's won the least GS titles, which is what you have alluded to with your stats. But that was not the gist of the original argument, luckystar stated that clay was his 'least favorite' and no one can know that unless Fed said so. I've heard him say, he likes clay, so who should I believe luckystar and the fangirls, or Fed? Some of you need to comprehend. I'm done, so argue all you want.

Don't even go there with your ridiculous assumptions that i'll say Nadal is only a claycourter, coz I never said so, so don't put words into my mouth. STOP referring to Fed fans as idiots,.I think some of you are deficient in language skills and can only resort to name calling to express yourselves. You raindrops, seem to have a lot of buried anger, as you've turned the surface discussion now into something far removed,from its origins. I'll add you to the ignore list.Enjoy your misguided day.

I won't be surprised to see holdserve, NNY, rafaisthebest join in to help raindrops, as that's the norm, isn't it.

Raindrops your handle suggests to me that you talk like the rain that emits inconsequential drops all day long without doing something worthwhile, like watering the lawn, but just enough to make a mess of my car. I'd say you deserve that handle.

scoretracker........why are you baiting me? You are the one coming here baiting us and claiming we are the trouble-makers.

If you are missing our erudite, thoroughly objective contribution to your discussion, say so dude, happy to oblige. Now, what's your point?

Light rain forecast at start of play tomorrow, play likely to start under the roof on centre court. I hope Rafa has trained under the roof.............

@scoretracker:
I'm stating that clay is not Roger's least favorite surface, as he's done well on clay and was only stopped by nadal. Least favorite surface and results is not the same thing. "

Well then what is Roger's least fav. surface? Grass? HC?
have u lost ur mind?

I see discussing or arguing with scoretracker got to be very specific. First when I said 'before Rafa became a force on clay', those who follow men's tennis should know that it's in 2005 when Rafa won his 1st FO that he became a force on clay. Second as I've mentioned in my earlier posts, my definition of 'favorite' may be different from scoretrackers'. In the first place my original post wasn't even addressed to scoretracker, and I don't understand why scoretracker can't accept a difference of opinions or definitions. I don't want to be drawn into such meaningless arguement, for there won't be any conclusion. I'll skip all scoretrackers' posts in future, as I won't want to be involved in meaningless arguments or whatever you call it.

"...He even made your man like a helpless old woman crying at AO, your man literally looked too ugly crying." - Raindrops, 6/19/11 3:49 PM

I saw this scene too, Fed's pathetic crying to rob Rafa of his moment. And yes, he's really ugly if he's a woman, even minus the crying stuff.

...and btw, i'll bet my bottom and say that scoretracker is a lawyer...any takers?

**dollar** :-(

STOP referring to Fed fans as idiots,.I think some of you are deficient in language skills and can only resort to name calling to express yourselves

scoretracker, 6/19/11 4:07 PM

True words indeed! The more they resort to name-calling, childishness ,etc. the more they know they are wrong and have nothing else to resort to. You have to have thick skin here and know who to ignore because the insults come in abundance from Rafans to Fedfans and Nole's fans as well these days.

I think scoretracker has been employed by the blog to bait us.
Hey scoretracker calling you delusional is not name calling. If you say the sun rises in the west and I say you are delusional, would that be name calling?
But you have passed insulting remarks claiming my remarks are nonsensical, senseless etc. But they are water off a duck's back for me because as rafaisthebest has said our posts are erudite, thoroughly objective. No doubt they are a heavy load on your delusional world where Fed is the goat.
You reply to a post without bothering to read. Your replies are always based on delusions, not on facts for that would shatter your Fed-is-the-goat delusion.

Incidentally since I know you are logically-challenged let me help you find luckystar's post. But first you must have enough logical competence to understand logical equivalence.
Before Rafa became a force on clay= pre-2005.
If you have understood above equivalence, then look for
luckystar , 6/18/11 3:55 PM
You could try pressing Ctrl-F and copy-paste above i.e. luckystar , 6/18/11 3:55 PM
or simply track by date and time.
Also check luckystar's post of the same date but time 5:07 PM where he has explained the equivalence.
In future please read posts before replying and don't insist that it is up to the other person to make you understand the post.

Hope that helps.

The above helpful post is meant for scoretracker.

just a reminder -- we don't allow unfounded accusations of doping at tennistalk. Thanks.

as expected the fangirls have come out in droves.

@phoenix, you're wrong, Iabout my profession, but it's none of your biusiness really.

@holdserve, if you call my posts delusional and all of the other stuff you say, then I have every right to say you are being non-sensical. It's a fair exchange.

I've seen you do this before with the other Fed fans, you butt into discussions, take over, and then start with the name calling. when others respond, you say they insult you and you'l report them. You've got a nice little scheme going on there. First you incite, then you complain. That's a little too infantile for me.

@rafaisthebest, I think you have a short memory. you were the one who intervened from the inception of my post with NNY. Don't you remember?

I' haven't baited anyone here. The baiting is all on the Rafafangirls. Raindrops came into this discussion with so much more than was necessary talking about stuff that happened ages ago, and totally irrelevant to the present discussion.

@numero, thanks for the wise words. As I stated I'm good at ignoring, but I see some who don't like to be ignored. I see what they are doing, they gang up on the Fed fans to get rid of us, and then they are happy. This way, they can discuss Rafa with blind worship.

@rafaisthebest, you call taunting the Nole fans eridite posting? You're in anther stratosphere. Your posts are just blind rafaluv.

@atul, least favorite is not the same as least GS titles, or positive results. You're talking preference (no one knows for sure what Rog likes) as against results. That's the wrong use of words and you guys are still not getting it, so funny.


'eridite' imisspelled, it's erudite.

I wanted to post a critcal posting to the moderator about alowing Holdserve to insinuations about Federer, but I see just now that it has been dealt with. Thank you for that.
I will not ask for anything more because it is still allowed to make the most absurd remarks about one of the greatest athletes in our time.

Thanks Cheryl.

I can say that TT is fair and balanced now. :)

@rafaisthebest, you call taunting the Nole fans eridite posting? You're in anther stratosphere. Your posts are just blind rafaluv.
scoretracker , 6/19/11 8:31 PM

That is exactly what I said to that same person not some hours ago along with the advice to quit unfairly criticising Murray. Apparently that's being positive and I should go get a facial!! A facial! Even as a Rafa fan I find Rafaisthebest's taunts embarrassing and irritating!

Oh I did not make any insinuations about Federer. I said considering his sudden inexplicable surge in performance at this late age, if it weren't for the fact that he was their god, the Fed fans would have come out with allegations as they did with Rafa. While Rafa's increase in serve speed could easily be explained by his change in technique, the Fed fans insisted on finding nonsensical explanations.
I was only making a dig at Fed fans who are silent when their idol shows a sudden surge in form improving his backhand, his drop shots, his stamina etc but are full of accusations when Nadal just improves his service. So does this mean that Fed is God and is capable of naturally improving anything but Nadal can only improve by adopting unfair means?
If Cheryl thinks this was an allegation by me and she is siding with the Fed fans, that too the same Fed fans who made the allegations against Nadal, then I can only express disappointment with Cheryl.

Scoretracker and Sienna have called me names and made the false allegation that I reported torres9 after I incited him.
Torres9 and numero attacked me calling me names, petty, pompous etc. I warned both of them. numero, after hurling one more insulting post at me claiming he had shamed and humiliated me, stopped his attacks but torres9 persisted. Then I reported him and told him that I had reported him. But still he went on harassing me. I see he has stopped now. But to claim that I incited that troll is a deliberate lie. Not surprising that this falsehood comes from scoretracker and Sienna who in their delusional world see no reason to be guided by facts.

scoretracker,

Please do not draw me in to your absurd name calling and inflaming on this site. You are an instigator of the first order. Thank you for quoting me, however that only serves to show how you have overreacted to my initial comment. It was in no way a direct insult or personal attack, yet I come back here to find you trashing my to no end.

My intentions were good and reasonable. Your reaction only proves that you are here to insult and provoke. Should you continue with your personal, self-indulgent rants, I will be sure to ignore them and continue to have discussions with those who do not have an ulterior motive.

I meant e.g, hypersensitive

@holdserve, I want you to show me where I called you names. i said the following:

@holdserve, are you one of those people they pay on some blogsites to incite? One thing's for certain, there will always be a non-sensical comment from you whenever a Fed fan expresses an opinion. Your senseless baiting is extremely juvenile IMO."

This was your reply, which means I didn't call you any names, I said your comments are nonsensical and senseless. There's a big difference.

"Hey scoretracker calling you delusional is not name calling. If you say the sun rises in the west and I say you are delusional, would that be name calling?
But you have passed insulting remarks claiming my remarks are nonsensical, senseless etc. But they are water off a duck's back for me because as rafaisthebest has said our posts are erudite, thoroughly objective. No doubt they are a heavy load on your delusional world where Fed is the goat."

Where's the name calling? I get it. If you say I'm being delusional, and ilogical, that's OK, but if I say your posts are nonsensical and senseless, I'm being insulting and calling you names? How ludicrous is that!

I see there are a few here who are prone to exaggeraton. My comments are all here in black and white for all to see that these accusations are groundless and without merit. I'm amazed to see how some get carried away on their computer keyboards.

BTW, sorry folks for the errors but my computer keyboard is sticking.

scoretracker, you are nonsensical and senseless!!! am i calling you names now?

Yes, you are, but if you said my comments are nonsensical and senseless, that's not name calling.

let me ask you this, If I say you are delusional and illogical is that name calling?

Don't answer, as I doubt it will be a truthful one. You fangirls stick together and come out in droves. I find it funny as your reactions are so very predictable. I don't mind it, but I think the over the top exageration and lieing is uncalled for. We're supposed to be adults, yes?.

oh i'm sorry, i should have empasized that mine is a rhetorical question hence did not expect an answer from you...:-)

Raindrops, "Tell us then how we supposed to address the fedfans, IMBICILE, MORON, STUPID? You choose!"

For starters, you need to learn that you can get people's attention by being civil and polite instead of indulging in name-calling, and/or exaggerating. Maybe, someday you'll learn that lesson, but until you grow up, you can keep up with the name-calling, and hopefully, it will serve you well.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I saw a statement from the moderator that 'personal insults are not allowed.' Isn't name-calling a personal insult? I don't feel that a difference of opinion warrants reverting to name-calling to get your point across. Not everyone will agree with you, but that's something you will need to learn.

iIll shut up now, as you requested, and I leave you fangirls to your exaggerated statements. I doubt you'll ever understand anything as emotion rules.

"Didn't Roger say many times that he loves Wimbledon the most and he often say too in the public that his game suits fast courts and look at the result. HOW ABOUT THAT? '

I've never heard Roger state that he dislikes clay. I've heard him say, he likes clay as he grew up on it, so how about that? Who am I supposed to believe you fangirls, or Roger?

This Fed fan is shutting up NOW.

As fa as I'm concerned the person who starts all the namecalling is holdserve. Secondly he/she is a bitter person becaus she only has one thing on her mind and that is to insult Federer and fans. Luckily het comments about fed taking doping were removed. After asking the TT moderators? That suely was the lowest she/he could go. I don't mind the stupid claims about weak era. Those claims just show how stupid she/he really is.

scoretracer: "For starters, you need to learn that you can get people's attention by being civil ......"

Civil you say? it depends on how stupid the post is. How can you not call them as such if their posts are obviously spinned to favor Roger? Just like you do now, you heard him say he likes clay but you intentionally disregard the result which is the very basic to gauge one's performance NOTHING else, is there any? I laugh at you when you say he's done well on clay only to stopped by Nadal lolz, what a lame reason. Roger has done well too at Grass and he racked up wins there with or without Nadal. Now do you think you are sensible? I think you are one of the those blind worshipers of Federer who is trying to make every tennis fan believe that Roger has equal court prowess on all surfaces. Yeah go on refusing to accept that Clay is Roger's weakest because you heard him say he likes Clay but the question is, is the result conformed with what he has said?

It's interesting that someone who I have never even spoken to seems to know so very much about me. Hmmm. Why would that be, I wonder?

It's always nice when someone decides to be the self-appointed moderator of this site. The last time I checked it was Cheryl and Ricky who make the rules.

To state the obvious, anyone here is free to comment any ongoing discussion or conversation between any posters. If I want to insert myself into a discussion and offer my thoughts, then I get to do just that.

As I recall, luckystar thanked me for helping clarify what she was trying to say. So it's not interfering, unless you are someone who likes to manipulate and control the discussion. That is not going to happen on this forum. I will exercise my right to participate in any discussion I see fit to join. No one gets to tell anyone here when or how they can post and to whom. Once you make a comment here, then it's in the public domain and anyone and everyone is free to answer, comment, disagree or criticize.

numero and other Fed fans keep alleging doping because they cannot believe Nadal can actually be a better player than their idol. If they really believed improvements could only be due to doping then they should have applied the same reasoning to explain the spurt in their idol.
So I pointed out the illogic in their speculations viz if Nadal improves suddenly it is doping but if Federer improves suddenly it is only natural.
numero or some Fed fan complained to Cheryl that I was accusing Fed of doping!

I completely agree with scoretrackers comments.

REALLY??? am I suppose to get suprised? lolz

so another fedfan believes that clay is not Roger's weakest surface, another clown haha.

Do two Fed fans ever disagree with each other? Disagreement can arise if facts or interpretation of facts is involved.
If all comments are based on a common delusion that Fed is the goat and certain common beliefs which can be called the core values of the Faith viz
Fed is prodigiously naturally talented and tennis comes effortlessly to him,
it is wonderful to watch this man dance on the court,
he can play and keep winning for years,
he is head and shoulders above the others and others can hope to challenge him only by employing other than God given gifts ( usually unfair means)
he can lose either because the other player employed unfair means or Fed was suffering from mono, back pain ( remember how the goat had to miss serving his country because of this problem? Federer is always suffering from immense back problems but he is so talented that despite being handicapped he can still beat everybody. But sometimes the pain is too much and that's when he loses to the likes of Berdych),
Nadal is 1-d and the reason for his successes on other surfaces, apart from all unfair or unnatural means adopted (including changing a natural right-hander to a left-hander which was described by one delusional as creating an artificial monster), are that the ATP has entered into a conspiracy (why?) to slow down all surfaces to make them like clay
---how can one Fed fan disagree with another?

"What's this myth that Murray can play better against Rafa than he's against Fed? Rafa has beaten Murray four times at slams, twice at Wimbledon, once in AO and once in FO. Murray has beaten Rafa once at the AO and once at the USO. Do note that Rafa and Murray have never met in a slam final..."

@Luckystar.
You're right, most probably it is a myth.
I have made this point myself without thinking about it (that Murray performs better against Rafa than fed in slams) recently. When Murray hasn't actually met Nadal in a slam final as of yet!
His 2 wins were semi final contests.
Would love to see Murray take out Fed in a slam and feel its only a matter of time before he does.
But until Murray gets more professional (and agressive) I'd think anybody in the top 20 would fancy their chances should they be so lucky to meet him in a slam final.
Less so in a semi final.

NNY I'm still waiting for you to prove to me your ambiguous statements, and over the top untruths where I have instigated stuff, called you names and bashed you to no end. I didn't think you could do that coz I've not done so, and in essence you're just lieing in your efforts to make others, in this instance, me, look bad. What you have done, is to demonstrate to everyone on this site that you're lieing and making up stuff that doesn't exist. You need to stop with the lies, as they don't make others look bad. It's you who look bad, because you can't produce the evidence pertaining to your false accusations. You were only grasping at straws and it has now backfired on you, coz you don't have the evidence. I hope you've learned that before you accuse, you need to have the evidence on hand. Maybe, you think people wouldn't call you out, or you have gotten away with this behavior many times before, but it won't work with me. I'll always ask you to prove your claims.

You ask, how do I know so much about you, well, one reads. I've been reading this site for 2 months, before I decided to join, so I knew what to expect especially from you and holdserve. I was prepared. From what I've observed, you both have a penchant for exaggeration which borders on lieing, IMO, just to make yourselves appear to be the wounded one.

I've seen your fights with the Fed fans and the taunting you do, going after the Fed fans whenever he loses. I suppose you think that's nice, but it's being an instigator, and childish, especially coz you are aware that Fed fans are few on this site so you know you're on safe ground, as your fellow Rafafans would not rise up against you, but support you. That said, don't try to bamboozle me with this holier than thou attitude, as I'm hip to your little schemes.

The two toxic mischief makers, and the ones prone to claims that don't exist, are yourself and holdserve. I've also asked holdserve to produce the evidence of her claims against me, but like you, she can't. Guess why, the evidence does not exist, and it's a simple matter of lieing.

"To state the obvious, anyone here is free to comment any ongoing discussion or conversation between any posters. If I want to insert myself into a discussion and offer my thoughts, then I get to do just that."

Yes, everyone has a right to do so, but when others do so, you accuse them of being an instigator as you did in your earlier post to me. Make up your mind, and stick to your side of the bargain, which should not be changed to suit your whims and fancies, as to when I or anyone else dispute comments and ask for an explanation. You went after me when I initially posted here coz I thought your rationalization of the Nole wins were unfair, and I let you rip away at me, but I'm not going to let you do that again.. If that's how you feel about it, which is perfectly within your rights, then don't accuse others of being an instigator, and all the ridiculous stuff you leveled at me. I had a right to ask a question, and I'm yet to understand the ridiculous answers I've received, which has not addressed my point, yet. You intervened, and made it even worse. Of course luckystar is going to thank you, you were on her side, and you reinforced her stance. Just remember, when you butt in, you need to be prepared for the retaliation, and don't label it, as 'bashing you to no end', it's all within the rules. Have you ever watched 'Rules of Engagement'? If not, you should. Every accusation needs to be proven, but I doubt that will ever be a point you'll understand, as you seem to be someone who'll write anything to justify your actions, albeit, your justification is based on exaggeration and untruths.

"It's always nice when someone decides to be the self-appointed moderator of this site. The last time I checked it was Cheryl and Ricky who make the rules. "

Here again, you get in your quota of digs. I'm not a moderator and don't want to be one, but the rule needs to be applied across the board, which means, you and the other Rafafans are not exempt or are above the rules. It should be one universal rule applied fairly, with no exceptions. I see Cheryl is being knocked for applying the rules, but she was so very right in that instance, and way too nice to the offender.

holdserve, I'm still waiting for the evidence of the all those awful names you claimed that I have called you. Copy what I wote to NNy and apply it to yourself.

I'm being attacked because I had the gumption to question the ridiculous statements made that clay is Fed's least 'favorite' suface, and I'm yet to receive an answer that addresses my point. instead, I'm being hauled over the coals by all who feel they can jump in and indulge in more name calling and piling on in sults towards Fed fans. You people don't want a healthy discussion with a Fed fan, as you use this as an opportunity to unleash more venom. Have fun.

Raindrops, is a lucid conversation with you an impossibility? Why is TJ600 a clown because he disagrees with you Rafafans that clay is NOT Roger's least favorite surface. In essence, what we have here, if a Fed fan does not agree with a Rafafan, then we'll be subject to abusive name calling and everything else that you guys can throw at us, even made up facts that do not exist? It's unbelievable what I see happening, and you guys get away with this stuff?

@holdserve, "numero or some Fed fan complained to Cheryl that I was accusing Fed of doping!

holdserve, 6/20/11 2:22 PM
-------------------

Cheryl was too nice to you, and you don't deserve such kindness. Stop going after her and trying to inflict guilt in her. You were way over the top with your allegations and deserved more than you got. You need to practise restraint on the nastiness you write concerning roger. he is a great champion. What I don't understand is you claimed you weren't even clear about being a Rafa or Nole fan, yet you can't resist the urge to get into the middle of the discussions and bash Fed. in every discussion, you're in the middle, coz you jump in then take over. Are you writing your own blog in every thread to obtain 'hits' and it increases your vanity when you obtain them?

---------------
TJ600, thanks

I never claimed I was a Nole fan.
By the way what did I get from Cheryl? The way all you guys are celebrating, I am surprised. Cheryl just said that doping allegations are not allowed. She did not even mention my name. Because you guys thanked her and mentioned my name, I guessed she had made that statement because you or numero had complained. So what is this about deserving more than I got?

There was indeed a comment deleted in which holdserve accused Fed of doping. I do feel I am responsible for that I would gladly say. It was somewhat longer on TT then normally when someone makes unfounded doping allegations. So after pointing it out it was quickly removed. They remove more but as I said before it is still allowed to speak utter and complete BS all the time.

hey holdserve, show me, show me, show me, where are these allegations you hurled. at me. They don't exist. That's all I'm intrested in. You were 'erased'. Ask Arnold Schwartznegger, what that means. Everyone knows who wrote those comments, and don't accuse me of complaining. I don't know how to get in touch with the moderators. Further, I'm not into complaining as I can fight my own battles and don't need an assist. BTW, you claimed, you didn't know if you were a Rafa fan. That was weird and it's why I remember it so well. My theory on your behavior and blogging, is just to unload the venom you have for Fed as you have nothing worthwhile to say about the matches that are being played.

You were lucky that you weren't publicly humiliated, so instead of berating Cheryl, just thank her She was too nice to you and you are repaying her by trying to inflict a guilt trip.

Is it just me or it's just a coincidence that at the time some notorious Fed fans disappeared from this site, scoretracker comes along. Dude for a newcomer as you claim, you seem to know a lot about the posters here.

Hey scoretracker and Sienna, I publicly humiliasted you guys by pointing out all the bogus logic and delusions in your comments.
Sienna is right. They don't delete all the BS. Otherwise all the comments of you two would have been deleted.
By the way you both must be multiple ids of each other. So I will refer to you as Sts.

phoenix,

Thank you for pointing out exactly what I saw! For someone who supposedly suddenly appeared under a new screen name, this person certainly has a lot of anger issues with many of the Rafa fans here. Then the sorry attempt to play the victim and accuse Rafa fans of all sorts of nefarious conspiracies! So sad.

The hypocrisy is so thick that you can cut it with a knife. If someone like tj600 sticks his nose into it and encourages this person, then it's all fine and dandy. However, if I make a reasonable and polite comment clarifying what luckystar was saying and even get a thank you from her,then I am a monster that must be destroyed. I am so mean and terrible! Oh, the pain of it all! So sad.

Whoa, now I'm someone else? This is hilarious. Ladies, what is it you don't get, when I stated I've been lurking on this site for over two months? I'm aware of the discussions and fights. Some of us are intelligent human beings and we become acquainted with our surroundings before taking up residence. Would you move into a neighborhood without checking it out first? when one lurks, one observes a lot. You are all hilarious, as simple logic defies you.

@holdserve, you only humiliated yourself with the usual nonsensical utterances on your imaginary thoughts of delusions. i will scroll down whenever I see your posts. You have been erased.

@NNY, if you stick your nose in, and I refer to you after as being in the conversation, why are you calling me an instigator and all the other stuff you stated? It's only fair that I include you in my discussion. Just think about it and you'll see how it applies. If you don't want to be mentioned, then don't butt in, but when you do, you become part of it all. BTW, where are those posts you need to show me? I guess they don't exist, yes? I knew you'd have nothing as there was nothing to begin with, which means you engage in untruths.

Don't talk of nefarious conspiracies, because you're making up stuff again. Show me these nefarious conspiracies I have accused you and the Rafafans. You write stuff that you either make up and use words without knowing their meanings.

Look, you ladies seem to have a penchant for the long drawn out stuff, I don't. I'm a guy who'd rather be loving than fighting. I have a job to do so that my GF, who likes to dress up a lot, can be happ[y. Have wonderful evening. It's time to spend time with another lady.

Keep the personal insults out the comments section, please. Disagreeing about
favorite players is fine, but we don't need the rest. Thanks.

I cleaned up many of the posts.

Thank you Cheryl. It's been getting out of hand lately.

It all started with the word 'favorite' and I don't see why we have to argue till no end about this 'favorite'. This is not an English lesson about the word 'facorite', as I've mentioned it all depends on our own definition of favorite. For example, Fed may consider a surface his favorite because:
1) he grew up on it and thus has sentimental value about it;
2) he may actually like the feel of the surface when he moves on it better than when he moves on other surfaces;
3) he feels his game can work better on this particular surface over any others;
4) he gets his best results on this surface.

There's just simply too many factors involved in determining which is one's favorite surface; only Fed himself knows it for sure of course. Nobody asked him to list down his favorite surface, so none of us know it for sure, so I definitely won't know it and I definitely won't want to guess it. All I'm saying when I said clay is Fed's least favorite surface, of course would mean, judging by his results on the surfaces, it's natural to feel that results wise, clay is his least favorite surface, results being the only factor I take into consideration when I made the statement, as no way would I know Fed's own preference unless I ask him in person and he replies honestly.

Why make a fuss about the whole issue arguing till no end about what is Fed's favorite surface?I've even provided stats to support the point I was trying to make and still? Must we all be so specific when we have our discussion here, when somethings are well understood by many here? Perhaps I should say: clay is Fed's least favorite surface(results wise), for those who insist on correcting others till no end!

"...Look, you ladies seem to have a penchant for the long drawn out stuff, I don't." - scoretracker , 6/21/11 2:04 AM

Really, then who was the guy who wrote a long drawn out discussions on lucky's comment about favorites?...BTW, this is a rhetorical question so you don't need to answer...Unless, you're the type of guy who has a penchant for the long drawn out stuff! :-)

I see a lot of offensive posts still on here.

luckystar

I guess that I should not have tried to intervene to clarify the word "favorite". I honestly for the life of me have no idea how this all blew up into a huge, nasty argument. You ask some good questions in your comments. Unfortunately, there are no answers.

I have been called a lot of names and trashed beyond reason over and over again, all because I dared to make a comment to try and resolve a disputed point.

I am done with it. I am also done with some people self-indulgently thanking cheryl for taking action because things have been getting out of hand. It's especially galling when it comes from one who is guilty of doing just that, attacking people personally.