Andy Murray needs Toni Nadal but he's a) not available and b) wouldn't put up with Andy's tirades for 10 seconds.

i think he underestimated stan a bit!

Its quite simple what Murrays problem is. Murray is one of the most complete players on tour. But that is not his problem. It's like a basketball team with a strong player at every position but no clutch player at any one. Where does he/they go under pressure? And if one position is breaking down, how do you compensate? Thats murrays problem. He has no "killer" shot. He has to rely on his entire game to click,and if one part is misfiring,he becomes very vulnerable.

Ramara: teehee and I agree, but is just what Andy needs ;)
tj: disagree. Andy needs to fix his serve, only thing about his game. but he also needs someone to help him channel that negativity into positive play. His ma hasn't been able to do this so far and I don't think she's the one.
BTW thought serve was crucial yesterday. Novak was not serving as well as against Fed and suddenly, out of nowhere, just when he needs to, Rafa starts to bomb aces! Amazing!

tj600 - I'm not convinved at all by the frequently used no-killer-shot argument about muzz. His craft at unpredictably resorting to any shot in the book and, if successful, exploiting that particular stroke, as needs must, is arguably worth more than any 'killer' shot in the game when it comes to winning a tennis contest.
His biggest problem remains a tendency to inexplicably 'go walkabouts' (often just after a good spell) and then, rather than squaring his shoulders and coming back again, caving in mentally, flagellating himself and sending out huge encouragement to his opponents through self-destructive, negative body language.
I see nothing complicated about why he lost to stan. It was simply another of his walkabouts. Having done well to win the first set and after going 3-0 in the second, he moved back to defensive cruise-n-snooze mode again and simply handed a break of serve back to stan. In game 5, set 2, muzz produced 3 almost-on-the-trot UFEs and simply gave stan a freeby break. From that point the momentum just didn't turn again. Simple as that. No great feats accomplished, neither player was overly impressive. Muzz just went walkabouts again and never came back.
All this talk about muzz's coaching needs shouldn't deflect the issue away from the above issue - in any case, he only seems to suffer coaches who tell him what he wants to hear anyway, so it seems pretty immaterial who he gets. Muzz is a good learner, yes, but only if he's doing the teaching!
I predicted him to win this slam. I'll always root for him, but from here on it starts to get that little bit less likely with each passing slam. I just don't see his actual tennis game getting much better now.
Deuce, I hear what you say about the serving, but muzz does seem to raise his service game, as he does his game in general, when he has to against the better opponents.

alex: totally disagree, his serve needs fixing, it is the key to his game. He needs to slow first one up and go for pinpoint accuracy. As for the second, it is gruesome! Some stats. Andy is 73rd, yes 73rd for first serves in, in 2010.When they go in he is 6th for points won. Second serves won he is 21st. I can't believe you don't think this can be improved! When Andy's serve isn't working you know he's struggling. It was appalling against Stan. He footfaulted for goodness sake, he never foot faults.
And lastly if Rafa can go on improving and improving, why do u think Andy can't?

ah fiddlesticks, don't know what happened to my last lenthy post. Bottom lie is this, deuce. There was only 2% difference between muzz's and stan's 1st serve % and the same number of double faults. We both know that a 50% muzz should beat a 52% stan. Muzz simply went walkabout mid-way thru set 2, and never returned. Yep, muzz needs to improve his 1st serve - I've probably complained more than anyone about that - but while you're at the stats (pretty impressive factfinding by the way!) could you also find what his % is against top 5/10 players. I think you;ll find it's way higher - he usually serves well when he really has to - this is what causes me to look at the mental aspect and a tendency to be caught slumbering when he thinks he can get away with less than top performance.

Alex, dont mean to pry but Stan has improved on his game you know!...........seems as you refer to him as 'ordinary'!

monalysa - ur welcome, open conversation:)

stan is a good player and I remember him beating fed not that long ago too. And I have some sympathy for what vrael says about muzz underestimating him - I don't think muzz wd have gone walkabouts a set and 3 games up against rafa.

But muzz is a level up on stan, and should be expected to beat him.

Andy Murray !!!I can easily see where you went wrong !
its all in your head and bad attitude on the court you walk around like to been dragged out of bed like a spoilt child
No wonder your cant find a coach -they dont wan tthat knind of attitude from their charge
You and GailMonfis both have the talent BUT NOT THE ATTITUDE
Get that right first and grow up in a few years you may be worthy of a title

sals3-
This is absolutely true! Cant stand him for him mopiness every time a match isnt going his way. At the slightest sense that he may be challenged, he cracks it and acts like a spoilt child, walking around like an old man.
Pathetic!

I agree with u sals3. Murray needs to learn to control his emotions. He have the talent. But what more matters is right attitude .

alex: problem with awful serving against lower ranked players is that you go out b4 u can meet the top players!
sals3, isabeau, Max: well wouldn't it be a boring old world if all tennis players were Mr Perfect? The only person hurt by his behaviour is himself.
And sals3 Bolliteri (?spelling) has said that he "likes" Andy and wants to coach him, so your statement is inaccurate.
isabeau77:gross exaggeration, can give you many, many examples where he didn't crack "at the slightest sense he may be challenged." but this all feeds the myth about him doesn't it?

deuce: I dont believe its a gross exaggeration, it may be a slight exaggeration but not a gross one. Andy Murray is great in sets out of 3, but out of 5 its almost like mentally he doesnt deal well with the thought that he may not get it all his own way in 5. The only times he doesnt have a bad attitude is when he is not the favourite in the match, like if he plays a Roger or Rafa, but if he is expected to win and things dont go all his own way he starts to feel sorry for himself and its all event on court for everyone to see.

All I know is that in the US Open, Toronto and Cincy there were matches were he was walking around like an old man, being stroppy, feeling sorry for himself with an appalling attitude. If you dont me believe watch the matches and you will see his behaviour and also the commentators making reference to this.

All players get mad and some even smash rackets but they then GET OVER IT points later. Murray doesn't get over it once he gets into a mood and that is his problem.

He is a talented player, but the minute he stops believing the hype and takes each opponent seriously then he will win a major. He needs to grow up.

If Rafa had his attitude he would not have even won one slam!

isabeau77: well, I still disagree on first point, and without thinking too hard,matches against Warinka and Roddick, in slams come to mind.
However, I do agree that often his behaviour on court is awful and does him no favours, it just hands the match to his opponent and whoever takes on coaching role must deal with this.
Thirdly, it is possible to criticise ALL the players for something or other, yes even Rafa, but I wouldn't dream of doing that because a) I have too much respect for Rafa and b) I have too much respect for the many lovely Rafa fans on this site.
Lastly, you don't know what daemons are in Andy's head eg he is a survivor of the Dunblane massacre, perhaps you should cut him some slack.

it's a bit harsh to say he needs to grow up just because he hasn't won a slam. some of the greats in the past didn't always win the first or first few slam finals they made. agassi went through 3 or 4 before he won one but nobody talks about that. federer has more reason to grow up for the things he says about other players yet no one says he needs to grow up because having 16 slams presumably means you've grown up! harsh! cut the kid some slack. so many players on the tour hasn't even made it into the second week of a slam. dismissing him as not taking his opponents seriously and believing in the hype is a bit much. it's always very easy to be a couch critic without needing to play a singles match in front of the world with the pressure of a nation on your shoulders. nobody ever said henman needed to grow up but nearly everyone said he should show more emotion, let out more steam on court because he was too gentlemanly. all of a sudden now andy needs ot behave and grow up! sigh....

deuce: Your last point above interests me. I wonder if the burden of the hopes of the people of Dunblane is even heavier than carrying the hopes of a whole nation on his shoulders.

Do you think it is a case of the classic 'survivor' syndrome - sub-concious guilt at being alive when so many others died? Thus self-imposed pressure to succeed and a disproportionate sense of guilt at failure.

About two years ago I recall speculating he would surpass Djokovic because he was improving by leaps and bounds, whereas Nole seemed to have hit his head on a ceiling after winning AO and was resting on his laurels.

Nevertheless it has been the same quartet jostling for the top 4 positions for 24 months.

if he really is determined he will improve all his shortcomings.....most of the past champions feel he will win gs's....the current champion thinks he will win slams....now its on andy to show what he is made of.

hope he finds a good coach quickly....nick bolletieri,i read was interested...dunno if he is right for the job or not though....lets see

i recently read somewhere that uncle toni does not charge anything from rafa for coaching him....its such an advantage not taking any money at all from your charge...u can say what u want to him...tell him what is good for him without any fear...such a great relationship to have.

homos: I can think of several star players who built a career out of behaving badly on court! But any deviation by Andy from the stereotype British stiff upper lip image is greeted with shock and horror. It's a no-win situation - damned if you do: damned if you don't.

Sadly human nature being what it is, there will always be some people (usually who have never themselves achieved anything in life) who love to put the boot in when someone is on the ground. It's the same people who also get pleasure in seeing someone toppled from their perch!

homos: hugs from me :) and you are one of those Rafa fans I was talking about, as is ed.
ed: yes, I do think it could be an example of "survivor guilt". I think he was 8 at the time, what a terrifying experience and yes, again he has said he's doing it also for the people of Dunblane, so incredible pressure. And they've said they want the town remembered for something other than the massacre.
People criticise Judy for her full on attitude but she thought, at first, that her child had been killed for christsakes!

andy's next tournament is going to be beijing(china open)....from 4th oct...according to his site

plenty of time to rest,find coach(maybe) and practice i feel...he will be determined to finish the year on a high.

Since Andy and Rafa have such mutual respect for each other, Andy has to ponder on the following things that I think are the key to Rafa's success.

Rafa is in a unique position as far as coaching is concerned - a) his uncle has taught him everything he knows about tennis, so Rafa has no reason not to trust his advise and judgement, b) Rafa knows that his game will always need to improve, no matter how many titles he wins, and who he beats, c) Rafa takes every opponent seriously, whether they are just inside the top 100 or outside the top 100, or in the top 4, d) Rafa does not believe that he has any God given right to win anything.

In Andy's case, his Mum could have occupied the same place that Uncle Toni has with Rafa, but neither Andy nor his Mum want that, so he needs to find someone he fully trusts and respects. Andy has to be true to himself and admit that he is not there yet, he is a good player, but he is not a great player, there are many aspects of his game that he can do better, as is the case with every single player, he also needs to take everyone seriously; I cannot for the life of me, understand why everyone thinks that Stan beating Andy is such a big deal. If you've only won 5 out of 8 encounters with a player, you cannot go on court assuming you will win. Rafa has beaten Nando 11.0, but he goes on court prepared to compete on a level basis with him. If Rafa had played Gabashvili and Istomin with the same cavalier attitude Andy has towards lower ranked players, he would never have made the 3rd round. Andy believes that having beaten both Roger and Rafa, he now has the ticket to win a GS, but there are over a hundred other players who could beat him, that he may have to pass through to get to play Roger or Rafa , and he will not beat those two on every occasion. Lu beat him in the 1st round of the Olympics, where was Lu ranked then?

Lastly, no one has any more right than anyone else to win anything; no player thinks they have no right to win that they should always just hand it to the top players, similarly, the top players shouldn't think it's their right to take any title.

There are many players who are as good as Andy who have not not even made it into the top 30; Andy has achieved more than most, and I understand the urge for him to slay the dragon at last and win a GS for Britain, but the urge and the hype alone will not do it, you have to go on the court and win the matches, and no one is going to make it easy for you, because they all have their own urges to address, and really couldn't care less about how many years it is since a Brit won a GS.

So Andy should keep improving and keep fighting in matches. Having meltdowns during a match that is not going your way is simply not the way to do it.

nadline: I tend to agree. Andy brings his A game to top players eg Toronto, but seems to underestimate others and has a terrific, energy sapping match when he need not to. I hear what you're saying about Stan but Andy should've won that. A tight set up and then serving for the second!! AAHH!! Difference between him and Rafa is that when Rafa isn't playing so well, he usually finds a way through. Used to think that about Roger, but now don't.

"The only rival whom Murray always relentlessly attacks, liberated by the certainty that he cannot outlast the Spaniard in rallies, is Nadal."

the words of john lloyd-britain davis cup captain

imho,he needs to play every top player like he plays nadal....im so sure that will help him on faster surfaces....it will bring him more confidence..to play points on his terms...finish them on his terms...

nadline, 9/15/10 11:08 AM 'the top players shouldn't think it's their right to take any title.'

I've never made any secret of being irritated by Roger's air of entitlement. When he is playing a lowly ranked opponent he has a way of swatting at the ball as if it were an irritating fly and it is slightly beneath his dignity to have to stay on court. Then if the scoreboard was against him he simply bombed down a few aces and the match was his. I say used to because his serve has let him down in recent times and he has paid the price.

This is in stark contrast to Rafa who normally plays every point as if the match depends on it and more recently has been showing visible annoyance at every unforced error on his part.

Andy falls somewhere between these two extremes but I agree he is guilty of not taking lesser players seriously enough so has to expend unnecessary effort in early rounds. And his now notorious lapses in concentration have cost him many matches he should have won. The good news is that with the right coach, a shift in mental attitude, and a little tweaking of his game, there is no reason why his full potential should not be realised.

vrael - I'm right with you and Lloyd on that one. I think all muzz fans are.

nadline - of your 4 areas where muzz could learn from rafa, I would agree most with: "c) Rafa takes every opponent seriously, whether they are just inside the top 100 or outside the top 100". Not so sure on the one about the coaching situation, though - after all, if he can't respect and trust Mum (I'm not saying he doesn't) who can he respect and trust?! I just think muzz has such a mind of his own and a stubborn streak (not necessarily a bad thing if you happen to be one of the best) that makes it hard for him to 'be told' by anyone. Rafa does give the impression of being very humble and teachable in that respect.

My comment about Andy Murray is true as far as I have knolwledge off
One way or the other pleasure or not !!!
I speak with netral ground
I have been court side at several touraments including FO and been a volunteer at a tourament when Andy was top star player
As I said he is a spoilt child and swears at anyone in his box - infront of children who pay to watch the game played by the best
HE is NOT a good role model as yet

deuce - re my earlier comment about muzz being pretty near his best, it wasn't intended as a negative statement. I don't actually think, in terms of his actual game, that he HAS to improve that much. Muzz on top of his game, when everything comes together and he demonstrates the attacking play that he generally has done in this USO Series, is ALREADY a world beater. The big factor is the attitude-depressive cloud that lingers over him at times and, as you say, a too laid back approach against middle tier players - these are all psychological things and not about tennis and tactics which, as I say, are pretty much as good as they need to be to win slams.

On the Dunblane thing, I'm no shrink, but muzz himself has in the past brushed the thing off as not really an issue in his life. If I were to play psychologist, I would reckon that the split of his parents probably would have had more an effect on his childhood development than an earlier event which he barely seems top remember himself - I'm NOT suggesting that that affects him either (although some - not I - might argue that it may have affected his inability to settle with a male authority figure/coach e.g. Gilbert). We could play shrink all day, but at the end of the day I just don't think muzz's problems are to be solved by looking backwards. Muzz has things to get over, but few don't.

Deuce-

I have nothing against Murray, I just dont like how he acts at times when things aren't going well. There is no excuse for poor behaviour.
As for cutting him some slack, people have to stop making excuses for his bad behaviour which only happens when he is losing, because that is what it is, it is a bad behaviour pattern which he needs to lose. It has zero to do with his personal life and what he may or may have not have gone through, because it happens when he is losing. If he wants to win major tournaments he is going to have to work harder in some matches than others and he is going to have to beat his own demons on court, which the greatest tennis players of all times have been able to do. He has to learn to win and keep positive when he isnt playing well.

Take Nadal for example. Last year he suffered the divorce of his parents, injuries, he lost his beloved French Open, and then he couldnt defend Wimbledon, yet he continued to run and try for every ball that year even though his knees were shot and career in limbo and his personal life in tatters, he didn't walk around the court like someone killed his dog and yet when he lost he lost with his head up high and with grace.

Andy Murray needs to mature. This is being hard on him, its being real.

isabeau - as a muzz fan I agree with all you say. The best kind of loyalty is never blind. BUT ... !
The issue is timing.
Of course muzz has problems but it's not helpful to kick the guy when he's down - and that goes for all of us, disappointed fans like myself included.
Again, I agree with all you say about rafa, but he's the last guy in the world who needs building up right now.
It's finding the balance ...

isabeau77: u said that I should look at his behaviour in Toronto and Cincy to see how poor it is @7.51. Now u say it's only poor when he loses @12.42. Well, he won Toronto. This does not compute.

Deuce and Alex-

I am not putting Murray down. Being fans I can understand you being defensive, fair enough, but what Murray needs is tough love.. Being nice and pretending this behaviour doesnt exist doesnt help him, not one bit and I would imagine this is what his box is like. They would be encouraging but not straight and tough with him.

Josh Eagle and AUstralian commentator, was saying that Murray needs to find a coach who will tell it to him straight, who will give him tough love, someone who will be exceptionally tough with and not put up with this crap.

And Deuce, Yes it does compute.
He may have won the tournament but it doesnt mean he wasnt stroppy and walking around like someone had died in the matches prior to the final. He was! I remember it because Josh Eagle one of the Aussie commentators went on and on about it, saying that Murray is walking around like an old man and wishes he would snap out of this attitude, which not only includes his negative, defeatist body language but also his habit to then pretend that he has injury tweaks when things dont go his way (he didnt suggest that he calls the trainer, rather that he mopes around holding parts of himself between points).
Josh Eagle said that he wouldnt be saying this about Murray if he didnt see it time and time again, if it wasnt a common occurrence. And I say it too because I have noticed it as well. Just as I know that Rafa picks his pants and is obsessive compulsive. But the difference that although both psychologically are negative behaviours, Rafas produces positive results, MUrrays negative.

I reference Nadal because he has what Murray yet doesnt and that is mental strength. It can be attained but Murray will have to work at it. Nadal was lucky that his uncle enforced this when he was young.

isabeau77: I don't see anything in either alex's or my posts, denying that this is poor behaviour and that it has a negative result??? If anything, alex and I are very realistic fans. I don't think we should judge whether he's in pain or not either and players who repeatedly call out the trainer get endless criticism. If we are defensive about him it's because the world and his wife seems to be endlessly on his case.
alex: he wouldn't be able to talk about Dunblane and its effect. He isn't the world's best communicator and I get the feeling he is a shy private person. Whatever you think, kids he knew died, that must at some deep level have had a profound effect. When I was at school an older girl died in a road accident. I was really young but I can still remember her name and recall her face vividly.
sals3: I'm not for a moment condoning this because I think it's wrong, but the majority of players swear on court. It's just the English speaking ones get the most criticism. Or perhaps you don't know what puta, mierda, merde etc mean? Ferrer is one of the very worst but I never hear a word said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC7rU5ara5w

animated andy...:)