• Nadal, Soderling on quarterfinal collision course

    4/25/10 9:26 PM | Ricky Dimon
    Nadal, Soderling on quarterfinal collision course Rafael Nadal and Robin Soderling are in the same quarter of the Rome draw and will go head-to-head if they each win two matches. Also looming large in the section, however, are Tomas Berdych, Juan Monaco, Stanislas Wawrinka, and Albert Montanes.

    If Rafael Nadal wants to win his fifth Rome title in six years, he might have to beat rivals Robin Soderling and Roger Federer just to reach the final.

    Nadal was placed in the same quarter of the bracket as Soderling and the same half as Federer when the draw ceremony was held on Saturday afternoon. As such, the tennis world is already buzzing about a potential Nadal-Soderling quarterfinal and a possible Nadal-Federer semifinal.

    Of course, both Nadal and Soderling have a long way to go before a rematch of their 2009 fourth-round French Open encounter becomes a reality. The second quarter of the Rome draw is absolutely brutal, as it also features Tomas Berdych, Juan Monaco, Stanislas Wawrinka, and Albert Montanes. Berdych finished runner-up in Miami, Wawrinka won a clay-court title earlier this month in Casablanca, and Montanes made it to the Monte-Carlo quarterfinals.

    Soderling will most likely begin his Rome campaign against Montanes, a clay-court specialist who is heavily favored to get past Italian wild card Paolo Lorenzi in round one. If the fifth-seeded Swede takes out Montanes, he could run into either Berdych or Wawrinka.

    Nadal faces a possible second-round encounter with Philipp Kohlschreiber, who stunned Novak Djokovic in the third round of last year's French Open. Potential third-round opponents for the third-ranked Spaniard are Juan Monaco and Igor Andreev. Nadal's path to the quarters is far more friendly than that of Soderling; plus the No. 3 seed has to be feeling good following a week of rest in the aftermath of his sixth straight Monte-Carlo title.

    First-round matchups to watch in Nadal's section of the draw include Monaco vs. Andreev, Wawrinka vs. Jurgen Melzer, and Kohlschreiber vs. Pablo Cuevas.

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After watching the Barca finals this morning, I'm not at all convinced Soderling will make the quarters. Montanes is a decent clay courter and I think made the quarters in MC. Pretty sure he was watching the Barcelona finals pretty closely. Berdych is playing outstanding tennis and did well in Indian Wells and Miami. Tomas and Wawrinka can both give Soderling fits in the 2nd round. And then there's Rafa waiting in the quarters.

Kohlschreiber played well in MC, but I don't think he's on par with Rafa. Juan M. is a great clay court player but hurt his wrist in Miami, and apparently will undergo surgery after clay court season.

Honestly, I think it looks really good for Rafa to get his 5th Rome title.

Maya , 4/25/10 9:46 PM

I think the draw is dangerous for Rafa, there are some huge steps here to get to the final, it all depends on how fit he is feeling of course, lets hope he is up to the task, I love watching Rafa on clay, MC was a masterclass, Vamos dear Rafa!

afrodite7 , 4/25/10 9:54 PM

I am happy that Rafa may get the chance to beat the top players finally! I don't get too excited about the draws these days. We have seen a lot of upsets, so I am not going to expect a Rafa/Sod quarterfinal until it happens. Sod has a tough road to get there. I think Rafa is coming into this tournament, fresh, rested and with a ton of confidence after his win in MC. I am not worried about who he will meet. If he plays the way he did at MC, then no one will beat him.

Nativenewyorker , 4/25/10 10:09 PM

yeah i doubt Sod will reach the quarters

RickyDimon , 4/25/10 10:12 PM

Soderling is a good player but he's enjoyed tremendous hype after his FO win over Rafa and quite frankly that's buffeted his abilities somewhat. Not saying he's not top 10 calibre but he isn't suddenly heir to Rafa's throne or some unbeateable foe as some people are making him out to be either.

Verdasco was better today at the Barca final and purely on current level of play, not even considering history here, I'm not convinced Soderling will make it far into Rome. I don't think Rafa needs to be losing any sleep here.

Zooni , 4/25/10 10:25 PM

I'm sure Rafa is not the one trembling in his boots. The way the Sod played today, he is likely to be bagled by Rafa if they meet.

nadline , 4/25/10 10:28 PM

croc , 4/25/10 10:37 PM

@croc, confidence and momentum are the two things players feed upon a lot,m especially rafa.

and i have no clue why people say soderling is the man to deal wid rafa on clay :S irrational that is , becoz how can u base ur reasoning on the basis of ONE match ,especially when u clearly know that rafa was not fit and soderling played the best match of his life.

and yes, sod failed to overcome the mini-rafa (nando :P) so how on earth is he gona HANDLE THE RED-HOT RAFAA !! :D


vamosrafa , 4/25/10 11:35 PM

Sod did not play his best tennis today and I also expect him to be mentally exhausted after Barca final...Rafa has a tough draw, or let's say: it is a tough draw for anyone but MC Rafa! If he keeps the level from MC, and he has no reason not to, he will be unstoppable...Vamos!!!

natashao , 4/25/10 11:42 PM

natashao, it is a ough draw for any one but the 2005-2010 rafa on clay (barring that RG match) LOl...bu there is no way i am going to underestimate the opposition, especially federer....fed will work really hard to get as many wins as possible over rafa , surely...grt prospect.

vamosrafa , 4/25/10 11:49 PM

croc , 4/26/10 12:32 AM

It would be great to see a Sod/Nadal QF just for the excitement. I wouldn't expect a Sod win after last year's match but you never know what's going on in Nadal's head these days so anything is possible. I know the Sod isn't intimidated by him like the Armada crew is so Nadal will have to beat him, he won't beat himself these days.

chr18 , 4/26/10 1:20 AM

chr18 - I think he did kinda beat himself a little bit. Alot of UE's from Sod if I remember right. If he can keep the ball inside the lines he'll make it a match, but you never know which way the wind blows with Sod. I don't think he's big on consistancy.

Maya , 4/26/10 2:05 AM

You're right about the UEs. He does shoot from the hip and is hit or miss. I meant he won't be intimidated by Nadal. He won't feel defeated before he steps on the court and he will go for his shots. Whether or not he makes them may depend on which way the wind blows. Like I said, he'll be the underdog definitely.

chr18 , 4/26/10 3:34 AM

Raga had already beaten Soderling this year in an exho match in Abu Dhabi.

If you understand Rafa a bit more, you'll know that after he suffered a humiliating defeat at the hand of any player, he'll never again want to lose to that player, and each time he meets that player(on court), he'll try his very best to beat that player over and over again. Remember what Tsonga did to him at AO 08? And that's what Tsonga will get each time he meets Rafa - beatings - it's as if Rafa wanted revenge every time they meet. Even when Rafa was playing poorly in last year's Paris Masters, once he met Tsonga, he put on his best show and hammered Tsonga into submission. That will be what Soderling will get in all future meetings with Rafa, and I know Rafa will be working hard and learn to overcome Delpo for his USO defeat in 2009, and also Cilic for his Beijing Open defeat last year.

Rafa is a so much better version of Verdasco, and if Rafa is fit and healthy, Soderling won't be able to handle him, not on any surface, unless we are talking about indoor hard courts.

luckystar , 4/26/10 5:26 AM

the way you are undermining the credibility of a master's event which fed has never won and the way you are saying nadal will be nervous and robin unafaraid when they meet again.. it clearly shows one thing.. you are a fed fan who knows rafa is the best out there on clay but is finding it tough to accept.. you don't even accept the fact that the guy was nowhere near his normal when he played sod last year but is happy to bring that up just to show rafa is not unbeatable.. u just need to remember.. robin is robin.. nadal is batman.. batman trumps robin. period.

clayking , 4/26/10 5:42 AM


Brilliant post! Bravo! You truly understand the mindset of some Fed fans. They have mastered the art of propaganda. Only tournaments that Fed wins every count for anything. If Rafa wins, then it can't mean much.

IF Sod meets Rafa in the quarterfinals, and looking at his draw that is a big if, he will lose to Rafa. End of discussion.

Nativenewyorker , 4/26/10 8:05 AM

Hola Fellow Rafans,no doubt Rafa deserves all the praise. However I would recommend some guarded optimism. As in tennis, especially in best of 3 anything can happen. If Rafa wins Rome by beating a few top 10 players along the way, I would have no doubt left that he is ready for the season ahead. And I would love nothing better than Sod incurring the Rafa wrath. Also I would love to watch him settle his h2h which has suffered recently against players like Nole, JMDP,Davy, Muzza.
And one more question: Is the indoor carpet or the indoor hard courst any different from the other hard courts. Is it faster. Why do we call certain players indoor specialist. Is there a significant difference in the way the court plays?

vmk1 , 4/26/10 8:14 AM

i'm not an expert on this thing but there is one basic fact that any surface will play faster indoors than outdoors.. don't know why but that is the general truth.. so the indoor hard courts are faster than outdoor hard courts..
well i will be frank.. this is the first time i have heard the term indoor specialists.. i guess you mean the same as hard court specialists..
for a better answer we should wait for our experts.. actually even i would like a clear answer to this..

clayking , 4/26/10 8:28 AM

have to agree with vmk1, i wouldn't get ahead of myself. be like rafa, one match at the time.

indoor HC is usually faster than outdoor. that's why you see some players' performance can change when playing an open court court and they close the roof during the match, the one leading can even end up losing as has happened in some women's matches at AO centre ct. every little thing counts, it changes the atmosphere/conditions. even on HC the surfaces are different, like IW is slightly slower than Miami because of the court surface, etc. than you have madrid where the thin altitude air causes the ball to travel faster and it's actually clay on HC, etc., hence why it's more HC than clay conditions. lots of factors in play. not always straighforward and based solely on the court surface.

homos , 4/26/10 8:33 AM

i've never heard of indoor specialist too. didn't think there was enough indoor/carpet tourneis to warrant a 'specialist' term for that surface....??

homos , 4/26/10 8:36 AM

If Soderling plays like that, Rafa's got nothing to fear. Also get feeling with Rafa that each match he plays kind of exists in a bubble with no reference to past or future, this is a tremendous mental strength. Of course may be wrong and he is trembling in his boots at thought of Sod, but very much doubt it.
PS Pleeaase send some of this mental strength to dear Andy M.......

deuce , 4/26/10 8:56 AM

I think the ball travels faster indoor as I think it has something to do with humidity in the air. I heard a player mentioning that in Miami the ball travelled slower than in IW, because of the more humid weather in Miami. When playing indoor, there is no elements like wind and humidity to deal with. Players like Berdych and Soderling seem to play well indoors than outdoors, maybe they couldn't deal too well with the elements.

Rafa always played better outdoor than indoor, as I think he prefers slower surface and slower balls; that will give him more time to react.

luckystar , 4/26/10 9:01 AM

@ homos,clayking: I thought Sod was known as an indoors specialist. In the sense that he got good results while playing indoors. Guess apart from the Paris masters hardly any tournament is played indoors.
Also does that mean that the grass would be faster if the roof at wimbledon is brought into action during a match? Also are there any indoor clay tourneys?

vmk1 , 4/26/10 9:02 AM

I normally tend to agree with those why say that we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves and take it one match at at time. However, it appears that some here would like to jump ahead to a potential Rafa/Sod quarterfinal. If they are going to do so and if they are also going to predict a Sod win, then I will make an exception and jump in to tell them that Rafa will not let that happen. Rafa has already beaten Sod earlier this year on hard court. The fact that Verdasco just beat Sod on clay gives me even more reason to be confident that Rafa would prevail should these two meet in the quarterfinals.

It is true that in a best two out of three tournament, anything can happen. There will be upsets and the seeds will most likely not hold. I prefer to take Rafa's opponents one match at a time and not look ahead. But others seem to want to do this and speculate as to who will win. Rafa always had the best answer for this - he said that anyone can say whatever they want, predict whoever they want to win, but it's what happens on the court that counts. Smart young man!

Nativenewyorker , 4/26/10 9:03 AM

yes.. even grass plays faster indoors.. maybe the reason is elements.. but any surface plays faster at indoors..
also even i believe in one match at a time philosophy.. actually i know it better than many because my fav player just lost 4 days ago to a virtually unknown kid.. so i know that for anyone it is one match at a time.. all i'm saying is how it would be when sod rafa plays each other, if they play..

clayking , 4/26/10 9:10 AM

Yes clayking, I am basically saying the same thing, ie when Rafa meets Sod on clay, and I'm not only talking about the Rome tournament. Given how Sod played at the start of this clay season, and esp seeing how he played against Verdasco (a lefty who tried to play like Rafa), I have no doubt that the Rafa, with his MC form, will be able to beat this Soderling. Of course there is a possibility that Sod may improve as the clay season continues and Rafa's form may dip, still I believe a not so stellar Rafa would still be able to beat Sod on the clay surface.

luckystar , 4/26/10 9:33 AM

Frankly, when Sod beat Rafa at RG last year there were all sorts of issues going on in Rafa's life including his injuries. If Rafa is fully fit, and judging by the way Sod played this week, he stands no chance against Rafa. Even De Bakker took 5 games off Sod, and look how Nando played about with him knowing he would win in the end. If Nando hadn't lost his concentration in the 2nd set, it would have been a straight set victory.

If Sod can't beat mini Rafa, he stands no chance against The King of Clay, NONE!

nadline , 4/26/10 10:56 AM

id be surprised if nadal lost a match on clay this year.

attackingtennisrulez , 4/26/10 11:07 AM

When a top player(Rafa) gets upset at a major tourney by a relatively unknown player(Sod) two things happen-1) The underdog gets confidence that if he can beat him once he can beat him again 2) Doubts creep into the top player's mind.
Hence I believe before RG Rafa must face and drub as many top players as possible to put his doubts into the grave and whatever little confidence the underdogs had of defeating Rafa must go into the grave as well.
Like previous years, the opponents must be a set and a break down before the coin toss and for that the king of clay must regain his aura of old.
Vamos Rafa!!

vmk1 , 4/26/10 11:13 AM

The day when Rafa lifted that trophy in MC for the sixth time, I know there is no more doubts in his mind. If anyone had watched his semi and final matches at MC this year, he/she would have noticed that Rafa got tensed during the second set when he was serving 5-1 I think against Ferrer in the semi, dropped his serve and allowed Ferrer to get another two games before Rafa served for the match again at 5-3. During his final match, when he was serving at 4-1 in the second set, he was perspiring like crazy and even got a time violation warning from the umpire. We all know too well that doubts had crept into his mind again when he was approaching the finishing line. He managed to overcome his nerve and held serve. The rest is history now. The win in Monte Carlo is very important for Rafa, as he now knows and has the confidence that he can win again, no more semifinal or final's wobbles for him; he has broken that semifinal and final jinx.

I believe other players, having seen how he demolished the good clay court players like Ferrero, Ferrer and Verdasco with ease, will now have doubts in their own minds. More so, when they saw that Ferrero had dispatched of Tsonga earlier on; Verdasco had dispatched Nole and Soderling.

luckystar , 4/26/10 11:40 AM

It'll be nice to see them both at it again on clay - Rafa will have many emotions and his killer instinct will kick-in :) Soderling, given these two's history, will not flinch and we might have a good match in our hands XD

Shireling , 4/26/10 11:46 AM

I know, luckystar, that the doubts are gone as far as winning a trophy is concerned. But the scars of that 4R defeat would be deep and only a beating of Sod at Rafa's hands would soothe them.
Agreed that Nando beat Sod comprehensively but at the same time Nando did not have to suffer the ignominy of getting beaten by Sod at a place where he had ruled for years and again at the TMC.
When was the last time Ferrer,Verdasco,Ferrero troubled Rafa though they are great claycourters in their own right.The fact remains that Sod is the only person to beat Rafa at the FO, bad knees or not.And Rafa will have that @ the back of his mind.
However I sincerely hope Rafa gets Tsonga like treatment henceforth

vmk1 , 4/26/10 11:49 AM

I mean Sod gets Tsonga like treatment @ the hands of Rafa

vmk1 , 4/26/10 11:53 AM

The 4th round defeat at RG will serve as a motivation for Rafa. He is not the king of clay for nothing, and he is not the great warrior on the tennis court for nothing. I think at the back of Rafa's mind, Tsonga/Soderling/Delpo/Davy/Nole and to a lesser extent Cilic/Murray, all of them are on his 'must beat them every time I meet them' list, and this list is in addition to the old list that includes players like Blake/Berdych/Gonzo/Youzhny.

luckystar , 4/26/10 12:31 PM

LOL " Must beat every time I meet them" :)

vmk1 , 4/26/10 12:36 PM

Oh yes, to that list, I must add the 'great' Nalby, who beat the hell out of Rafa in 2007, at Madrid and Paris. We see how Rafa finally overcoming his fear of this 'great' man and get the better of him the last two times they met. The H2H now is 2-2. Going forward, the great warrior that is Rafa will not fear this Nalby anymore, though the respect is still there, as they are good friends off the tennis court.

luckystar , 4/26/10 12:37 PM

luckystar: it's true the air is different between miami and IW but also the court surface. players have said before that Miami is very smooth but you could run your hand on the court at IW and you cut your hand, that's how rough it is and it slows down the ball.

deuce, if only it were that easy :P

vmk1: i've never heard of sod referred to as indoor specialist, but that doesn't mean he hasn't. i think nalby is good on carpet/indoor too, it's just i've never come across this term.

rafa grew up playing in windy conditions on his island hence why he thrives in some conditions that irritate other players.

native: don't blame you. i totally understand. call me a wuss or being cautious :)

it would be good for rafa and sod to meet at rome and more importantly FO. hopefully both players will be fit and healthy and the outcome will answer our questions.

homos , 4/26/10 12:39 PM

@homos. This article has Sod referred to as indoor specialist feats-tsonga-for-third-straight-time/

vmk1 , 4/26/10 12:53 PM

homos: just sending Rafa's mindset to Andy via brain waves and huge concentration....
Sod's ball toss is so high windy conditions are difficult for him
At Wimbles last year Andy was totally put off by roof, said conditions completely different and ball felt far "heavier" inside.

deuce , 4/26/10 1:26 PM

heavier and faster too i indoor thts a novelty!!

vrael , 4/26/10 1:33 PM

homos: yes the court surfaces are different in IW and Miami, and I believe IW surface is 'slower' than Miami's.

deuce: good point about Sod's ball toss. That's why he plays better indoor than outdoor.

Where is clayking? Ferrero is having problem now in his first match, against Giraldo. He may be on his way out of this tournament, losing the first set 6-0. This Giraldo guy is whacking the hell out the ball, wonder how much energy he would have left after the end of the match, if he continues to whack the ball that hard.

luckystar , 4/26/10 1:41 PM

Oh dear clayking, Ferrero lost in the first round! He is most probably feeling fatigued, after all this is his third consecutive week playing.

This Giraldo guy really attack Ferrero's serves and whacking the ball hard like nobody's business. He simply overpowers Ferrero.

luckystar , 4/26/10 2:17 PM

vmk1: thanks for the link. now i can't say i've never read/heard it before :)

deuce: good move. i hope it works! i really do!!

terrible start for jcf :( hope clayking is ok.

homos , 4/26/10 2:59 PM

i know this is off topic, but whats the difference between indoor hard and indoor carpet? And nadal will own soderling if he keeps playing likes this. ofc, there is a possibility soderling game can drastically fluctuate(it can improve or get worse) because hes soderling. Oh yeh, and soderlings draw just got a tad easier as montanes is out.

tj600 , 4/26/10 3:45 PM

vmk, if these guys beat Rafa when he was 100% fit and raring to go, then I would say you had a point, but they know and he knows what his problems were, he spent a long time recovering mentally and physically, picking up more injuries on the way, lacking confidence in going for his shots, but the way he played in MC, I think the aura is on it's way. The fact that Benneteau beat Roger recently does not remotely mean that he will do that again anytime soon. Tsonga has beaten bot Roger and Rafa by playing out his skin, but 9 out of 10 times he will lose to both of them.

Don't forget, form is temporary, class is permanent.

nadline , 4/26/10 3:56 PM

tj600: are you asking about speed? interesting qn, i think depends on what sort of carpet. my understanding of indoor carpet is that it's a temporary/removeable surface (artificial turf) that is used when there's a tennis event.

hard court - the same HC surface plays faster indoors than outdoors. both indoor hard and indoor carpet would be very fast but which one is faster may depend on what carpet is used. i'd be interested to know the answer re. speed. i think carpets used in asia defers from some other countries (rubber backed, sand, etc).

you are opening a can of worms :)

homos , 4/26/10 4:13 PM

I don?t fear anyone ? except Nadal, says Verdasco: pe=sportsNews

nadline , 4/26/10 4:40 PM

gorafago , 4/26/10 4:47 PM

where did you hear that gorafa? i only know that davy and delpo aren't in rome but robin is supposed to be playing, he's in the draw.

homos , 4/26/10 4:59 PM

Nadline, comparing the benneteau victory to Soderling's is like comparing the mountain to the mole hill. A paris masters defeat in the 2nd round at the end of the year at an event which Fed has never dominated vs a FO defeat at an event which Rafa has ownd over the years. Why that evening has even given me a nightmare or two! So be rest assured Nadal will have that at the back of his mind and the demons would be put to rest only when he returns the favour.. with interest!

vmk1 , 4/26/10 5:39 PM

vmk, Nadal was not 100% at RG last year, so I don't attach any long term consequences from that match.

nadline , 4/26/10 5:43 PM

ok nadline truce! we are on the same team remember.We both want a dominant Rafa back and a Soderling drubbing :)

vmk1 , 4/26/10 5:46 PM

Rafa is not playing until Wednesday. Federer Djokovic and Murray are all playing tomorrow.

nadline , 4/26/10 5:46 PM

vmk, I am the first to admit that I am not very objective when it comes to Rafa, so I admire Rafans who can take a step back; all the same, the way Soderling played last week doesn't fill me with any dread at all, because Rafa in on good form at the moment, and he will want his revenge against Sod for all sorts of reasons, so he'll be well prepared.

When Verdasco lost a very close 5 setter against Rafa at OZ 2009, I started thinking Nando was one for Rafa to avoid, but since then he has been potty in Rafa's hands and it's not for the want of trying, similarly with Tsonga beating Rafa at OZ 2008, he hasn't beaten Rafa since. Some players beat the top guys on a good day for them when the top players are not at their best, but they have to repeat it time and time again for it to have much meaning.

Normally, I try not to be be too confident about Rafa's chances because I don't want to jinx him, but there are so many other people who have their own superstitions regarding their favourite player, that I have decided that my own mini one isn't going to make that much of a difference.


nadline , 4/26/10 5:55 PM

yeah nadline I agree with evry word of yours when you talk about his record against Tsonga, Nando and even Nalby for that matter. But the only reason why I am still hurting after that French loss is that Rafa got beat in his kingdom which was an impregnable fortress which Roger at the peak of his powers could not infltrate. He was never even taken to 5 sets there bt it all came crumbling down. Also somewhere my mind says even a 60% rafa should have got the job done at RG against a 4R opponent. That is my only concern. But enuf of negaive stuf. From now on, there is only one way that is ahead.
Go Rafa go.

vmk1 , 4/26/10 6:03 PM

i tend to agree that regardless of whether rafa was 100% or not, being beaten by someone he had tension with in an arena he had NEVER lost before will play on his mind if they meet. and if they meet at FO, i would hope rafa doesn't have revenge on his mind but simply focuses on the game, each point and take it one step at a time and reads the game. the moment he focuses on payback, he will not do himself any favours. i think us fans and the media are the ones who want revenge for him. nevertheless i can see where nadline is coming from. i'm hopeful rafa's hunger to regain his title will be sufficient especially if he's fully fit and well rested and mentally tough enough to withstand the sadistic crowd as well.

homos , 4/26/10 6:09 PM

as much as i dislike soderling for having done that atrocious deed of defeating rafa, i still cannot deny the fact that when presented with a chance sod took it.. yes rafa was not even 60%, but you need to play the match of your life to even defeat a 60% nadal on clay.. and sod just did that.. played the match of his life.. it was unlucky for every one of us rafans that sod's match of his life co incided with the weakest condition of nadal's body..
but lets not forget sod always had the game to trouble top guys.. and that day he realised his potential.. .. as true rafans lets do as rafa did.. rafa has himself said the guy has unbelieveable potental and that his 2009 run was no fluke.. so lets have the same spirit as rafa and for a moment appreciate soderling..

i just said all this because i have often seen that we rafans (me included) often criticise soderling and say the guy does deserve anything and all.. but when you think rationally i believe sod should get some respect from even us.. that guy had done the impossible whatever the conditions may be.. (not too much respect.. just a bit ).. we should show rafans are more understandind than many fedal fans.. :P

clayking , 4/26/10 6:30 PM

croc , 4/26/10 6:32 PM

As far as the situation with Sod goes, nadline says it perfectly: "Some players beat the top guys on a good day for them when the top players are not at their best, but they have to repeat it time and time again for it to have much meaning."

Let's face it, the only reason we even talk about Sod is because of that one win over Rafa. Do we really expect Delpo, Baggy or any other lower ranked guy to consistently beat fed just because they won one match off him? Let's have some consistency in the comparisons.

fan4tennis , 4/26/10 6:33 PM

hello federer fans and rome is here.

After reading the above posts, nadline, want to say hi to you and hope for a great tournament in rome. The reason why I have "singled" you is because you are using a phrase of mine, which I use quite a lot and for the first time on here. Please use your own (and there is nothing intended here at all, but dont pass it off as yours, when it isnt). Thank you.

Don't forget, form is temporary, class is permanent.
nadline , 4/26/10 3:56 PM
It is nice that you want to copy this, but i would appreciate it if you wouldnt. thanks again. (I cant believe you've done that.).


I got your post. Thanks.

maxi , 4/26/10 6:48 PM

charges of plagiarism on tennistalk...
a rarity..

clayking , 4/26/10 6:53 PM

I hate to inform you maxi, but that phrase has been around for a long didn't "invent" it. It has long been a phrase used in sport and if you google it, there are tons of entries and you can even have a T-shirt made of it (which they did back in 2005). So, the phrase is NOT yours and yours alone, it is NOT new, so don't pass it off as yours, when it isn't.

fan4tennis , 4/26/10 7:09 PM

croc, Nole/Davy had also beaten Rafa at the WTF last year. So, Sod beating Rafa at WTF was no big deal!

Why we mentioned the exho match? Simple - its because that was the latest match between the two, and we saw Rafa's improvement since WTF. If the exho was before the WTF, then that meant nothing. Also we saw Rafa's improvement this year over last year at the WTF, in fact he was one of the top three players so far this year, in terms of ranking points won, the other two being Roddick and Fed.

I have no problem with Soderling. At RG last year, Rafa was having problems and he mentioned that even if Soderling didn't beat him there, Davy and Gonzo were waiting for him in the next two rounds and he wasn't sure that he could get past them. If it was Davy who beat Rafa at RG last year, are we to 'hate' him too?

I don't think the French crowd will treat Rafa badly this year, as Fed had already gotten his FO title, and there is no need for them to wish or cheer for Rafa's downfall. In fact after watching what Rafa had gone through in the past year and how he came back to win his sixth MC title, the French crowd may finally learn to appreciate Rafa and his spirit. We saw last year at the Paris Masters that they treated Rafa well and cheered for him. Rafa being Rafa, he would not allow Soderling to get the better of him again at RG, just like he would not allow Soderling to beat him at the Abu Dhabi exho early this year, fear or no fear, nervous or not nervous.

luckystar , 4/26/10 7:17 PM

I have no doubt that Rafa is unafraid of Sod. Rafa has lost to others (as has every other player in tennis) and has not been labelled "afraid of them" the next time he faces them. He had lost confidence in his game, due to his knees, which affected him mentally also. If it hadn't have been Sod, as luckystar said, it would've been someone else.

He is not the same as last year. He feels great and is playing well and clearly is enjoying it again. He is changing his schedule to help his knees and as he put it in one conference, "I have to watch out for what is best for me."

When Delpo comes back from injury (and I hope it is soon), are we going to hear all the time that fed is afraid of him because Delpo beat him at the USO? I doubt it.

fan4tennis , 4/26/10 7:37 PM

Oh wow, so now certain age-old, worldwide, pretty common phrases are not to be used by anyone else except a certain someone. Sorry to say but a get a grip girl, this is beyond silly now.

It was interesting to watch the Nando V Sod final because the announcers kept going on and on about Sod's win over Rafa at RG'09. I thought it was quite telling that it seemed to be the only thing of note that they could comment on with regards to Soderling. I kept thinking to myself, that cannot be the zenith of his career can it? But apparently it is. I think that says more about Soderling as player than Rafa quite frankly.

Zooni , 4/26/10 7:37 PM

nadline , 4/26/10 8:40 PM

maxi, 'Form is temporary, class is permanent' is a phrase used all the time by commentators, so don't claim to be the originator, and I would appreciate it if you just leave me alone, OK? Thanks.

nadline , 4/26/10 8:43 PM

nadline , 4/26/10 8:55 PM

Wow are you kidding me. Someone logged on here just to tell a Nadal fan not to use WIDLEY known and USED adage because they BELIEVE its ?theirs?. Goodness me how old are the people who frequent this site and how petty.

ANYWAY regarding TENNIS and Nadal. If Nadal can beat Soderling on his favourite court (hard courts) which he has already done this year in Doha then I don?t see it as a problem on clay. I?m looking forward to the match because I sure Nadal is looking to do some damage where Soderling is concerned. Not because he wants revenge because I don?t believe Nadal is into that but because he can and he knows that he is the better player of the two when they do contest a match and particularly on clay.

TopDog , 4/26/10 9:25 PM

i'm not even going to bother responding to you fan4tennis. I have been saying that phrase for years. for years. i posted it for the first time on this site a week or so ago, and found it repeated by carrie. i suppose it is a compliment of sorts. but i asked politely for her not to pass it off as her own. did not want to turn this into any thing other than a request. i will leave it there. End of. print as much information as you want. I dont copy other people. I print my stuff here. my thoughts. end of.

maxi , 4/26/10 10:24 PM

You're pathetic maxi.

Back to tennis, which everyone else has been writing about except one, I also don't think Rafa is into revenge. He is more into playing tennis better than he did the last time he faced any certain person. He will be more looking to play his best tennis than to exact a revenge that basically, only his fans and the media talk about.

fan4tennis , 4/26/10 10:43 PM

croc , 4/26/10 11:06 PM

the rome courts are extremely fast, i watched ferrero vs giraldo and the ball was zipping off the surface. that clay court is faster than alot of hard courts. the bounce is low and as soon as the ball touches the clay, its zips off like the US open hard courts.
does anyone know if they changed the speed of the courts when they made the new center court?
i thought nadal would win rome but after seeing the speed of the surface, i dont know how he can even make it to the final let alone win it.

they sped up the roland garros clay and now rome clay aswell.
is this anti-nadal campaign.

i have never seen a clay court as fast as rome, not even madrid.
big hitters certainly will be favourite in each match.

i know rome was a little faster, but this speed is ridiculous.

btw does anyone know whats the 2nd and 3rd most prestigious clay court tournament after the french open?
usually rome masters is considered the 2nd most important clay tournament after the french open, but whats the 3rd one? or even the 4th and 5th one?

attackingtennisrulez , 4/27/10 1:12 AM

I saw that match too and couldn't believe the way that qualifier blew Ferrero off the court. JC looked stupified throughout the match. They definitely changed the court surface and I can tell you the claycourters of old will struggle in this tournament. Why are they f-ing with these courts? Andy Roddick really should have played. Could they have done this to send Rafa packing? I just hope his new style of play helps him send all the heavy hitters packing. I can't wait to hear JC's post match presser.

Maya , 4/27/10 2:05 AM

if what atr and maya says is true(the surface is faster) then its only going to give soderling a better chance of beating nadal.

tj600 , 4/27/10 2:13 AM

ATR - Monte Carlo, Rome and Madrid are all MS1000 tourneys. Monte Carlo has the richest traditions and is over 100 years old. Alot of dignitaries and celebs. show up for it. Obviously, this is Rafa's favorite (or so he says). Rome is not as old, but still prestigious and seems to be the players favorite overall. Madrid was hardcourt until last year and then went clay, so no history (it was a 500 tourney before last year).
There were alot of complaints last year from fans, players, etc. regarding conditions and overall management of the tournament. If they don't have their act together this year it could be damaging. All other clay tournaments are 500 or 250 series.

Maya , 4/27/10 2:19 AM

I don't post here often and that is due to the constant bickering from a few posters, but I couldn't resist the urge to do so after I saw a poster telling another not to use 'her words'. LOOOOL

For those who don't understand the internet, nothing, and I mean nothing, is ours, or our original thought, once we write it on the internet. That said, unless one has a copyright/pate t to whatever they say, then if you put it out, be apprised it's there to be used by any who deem it fit to do so.

My sister, who's a journalist (a superb writer) and in TV, et al., has mentioned this to me several times, whereby she sees her content being copied. however, she's not a petty person, and she views such as complimentary to her knowledge.

Question: how many of us who post on these blogs are not guilty of using the TV commentators words? I see it done all of the time. i know of a poster on another site, as soon as someone drops a word that poster uses it back to them or another poster on the same thread. and, what's wrong with that? Absolutely nothing.

We are all guilty of copying phrases and other stuff, as we learnt them from the books we read and our teachers. That said, how could these phrases be ours??

I think some people are only happy if they can torment others, but it's up to the person who's being picked on, to ignore the tormentor.


Von , 4/27/10 5:10 AM

copyright/pate t.... S/B copyright/patent. THE 'N' TOOK A WALK. lol.

Von , 4/27/10 5:12 AM

Prior to 2009, Madrid was a Masters 1000 Indoor Hard court event played in Oct, Hamburg was a 1000 event played in May. The Hamburg event was demoted to a 500 event, played in July since 2009, and the Madrid event replaced it since May 2009 and it became a clay court 1000 event.

The Center Court in Rome is a new court, in use only this year. I think since it is new, the clay may not have settled in nicely and it appears to be a fast court. I don't think there is any conspiracy theory to suggest they do it to stop Rafa from winning. Anyway fast or slow or medium-speed, as long as it is a clay court, Rafa has no problem on them. Remember those temporary clay courts that they built in Spain for the Davis Cup ties, and remember the Madrid Bull Ring where the Davis Cup tie between Spain and the USA was held? Rafa had no problem on them, not then and not now, as long as Rafa takes care of his knees, there won't be any problem for him.

luckystar , 4/27/10 6:43 AM

fan4tennis, its not revenge that we are talking about. Its more about PRIDE, pride as to not wanting to lose to this same person that had beaten him badly in the past. Players do have pride, more so if you are in the caliber of Fed/Rafa. Also, if you keep losing to this same player, this may help that player's confidence and it'll make beating that player in future even more difficult.

We see that when Rafa faces Tsonga/Soderling/Nalby, and even Blake/Berdych, he'll try his very best to put up a good show or a good fight and we see that he won all his recent meetings with them. I think going forward, I would expect Rafa to do the same when he meets Delpo/Cilic/Davy/Nole/Murray.

luckystar , 4/27/10 7:03 AM

good point von. i know i'm guilty. i've even said before i use word that i hear from commentators.

luckystar: you still going to madrid? seems the skies have cleared. can you pls carry the cheers of all rafans with you? :)

homos , 4/27/10 7:14 AM

I'm not a believer in conspiracy theories per se, but there's been alot of discussion about changes on court surfaces. Wimbledon has become slower, FO has become faster, etc. I've read that Rafa prefers the slower courts of Monte Carlo to the faster courts of Madrid. Suits his game better. But I'm good with the court being new and not settled. Thanks for all your positive words.

Maya , 4/27/10 7:17 AM

Yes homos, I'm going there. I think Rafa may be there as he skips the Barcelona tournament. I think his decision of going/not going to Madrid depends on his performance in Rome.

I think Rafa will be playing against Kohl tomorrow and we'll see how he fare on the new court. I'm confident that he would not have any problem on the new court.

luckystar , 4/27/10 7:43 AM

Be rest assured that Rafa's agility and courat coverage would make the Rome courts seem slower again :)
Interesting to see how many of the others in the top 4 drop out today

vmk1 , 4/27/10 7:47 AM

maya: a lot of it has to do with maintenance costs. wimb's surface was changed and made slower in 2002, and i read that this "aided roger's dominance on that surface". i thought that was an interesting claim, not sure myself. but the cost factor is why a lot of surfaces have been changed from grass to hard courts. grass is the most expensive to maintain of all the surfaces, HC the least and easier to dry of after rain. wimb is only slam to keep the grass but it changed to a more 'hardened soil' for cost reasons and this slowed down the surface. since then it suits the baseliners more than it used to and disadvantaged the serve and volleyers somewhat, hence why tim henman was very vocal against the altered surface, also why sampras thrived at wimb prior. rafa is predominantly a baseliner so yes, a slower court suits his game better but doesn't necessarily apply to all baseliners (eg hewitt). the court changes have changed things a lot, makes it all very interesting.

madird is actually more hardcourt than clay because below it is hardcourt whereas proper clay courts sometimes sits on an underground watering system.

luckystar: am deeply jealous :( have a great time! eat lots of tapas!

vmk1: LOL!!

homos , 4/27/10 8:53 AM

Btw which country is tennistalk based out of?

vmk1 , 4/27/10 9:28 AM

Just for the record, my use of the phrase 'form is temporary, class is permanent' is nothing to do with any deluded poster on this site, I first heard it on SKY used when Federer was going through his bad patch in 2008.

Some people will soon be claiming that they wrote Happy Birthday, or the National Anthem.

nadline , 4/27/10 9:43 AM

vmk1: i think sweden.

homos , 4/27/10 10:07 AM

haha homos :)

tj600 , 4/27/10 10:22 AM

lol @ nadline

vmk1 , 4/27/10 10:49 AM

That Wimbledon story of yours has many holes. First off, Fed loves fast courts. He has won 5 USO and 3 indoor year-end MC. Second, he beat your fav Pete in 2001 and went out 1st round 2002, the year the surface changed. If anything, the slower surface helped Nadal who would not have stood a chance against Pete or Fed on fast grass. It was slowed down to encourage longer rallies as Pete, Goran and Richard were winning too many easy points on unreturnable serves. Get the facts straight.

chr18 , 4/27/10 1:15 PM

chr18: what story of MINE has holes? i said i read an article that said fed benefitted from the slower surface but that "i" wasn't sure myself and found that to be interesting. let me spell it out for you idiot: a claim that a slower court suited fed was news to me. i also went on to say the slower courts suit rafa more AND that sampras benefitted from the faster wimb surface BEFORE the surface speed changed. did i not say above the slower wimb surface suits the baseliners and rafa?

according wimbledon, it was a cost issue that the soil was changed. at least according to what i read.

so...why don't you learn simple english before misinterpreting everything i say? get your YOUR fact straight and pull your head out! you clearly know nothing beyond fed.

homos , 4/27/10 2:15 PM

As usual, I'm hardly surprised to find that it is only the Rafans who are knowledgeble about general tennis. Not only do Roger's fans not have the ability to discuss it, a clown here totally has misinterpreted what any normal English speaking person could see that homos is declaring that the slower Wimbledon surface suits Rafa more. chr18, you make me laugh. Trust a Fed fan to spoil a good discussion!

remi , 4/27/10 2:24 PM

I have been following this discussion since yesterday. The problem is not that Homos has his facts wrong, the problem is that chr18 got annoyed at the reference to Roger doing well on a slower wimbly surface, which was in AN ARTICLE and not actually an opinion of Homos'. And Chr18 chose to ignore what Homos said about it "i thought that was an interesting claim, not sure myself" which pretty tells you Homos was surprised by that statement. In any case it happens to be a fact, RF dominated after the surface changed.

Chr18, if you're so knowledgeable about court surfaces and YOU have the facts straight, why only enter the discussion now? Why didn't you answer those questions the fans had about court surfaces, indoor and outdoor differences? It was enjoyable to see luckystar and homos discuss smoothly but chr18 has to get hot and bothered. Don?t be so sensitive about Roger, he doesn?t know that you exist. No need to bring up USO and the like. Your post was utterly pointless. And than there is your fellow Roger fan accusing nadline of plagarism. It never ends with you guys.

jean , 4/27/10 3:03 PM

i agree with what you said about wimbledon and the surface slowing down. but apparently they have made the FO surface faster? After all, when soderling beat nadal last year, people said the surface was playing like a hard court. In addition to that, Karlovic hit 50 odd aces in the first round of the FO last year.(i know its karlovic, but to hit 50 aces against a good returner like hewitt on clay is really odd) And they have slowed down the USO hard courts as well. (not by much though. the surface there is still really quick)

tj600 , 4/27/10 3:20 PM

i have posted this on another thread but since it is relevant here i would post it..
i don't know about FO surface being faster but if it is (as you guys have said), it should be protested against.. clay is not supposed to be fast.. a madrid is enough.. it is supposed to be the surface that levels the playing field and allow counterpunchers to excel..if even clay becomes fast then this game will turn utterly boring.. after all clay is the place where you can see longer rallies more frequently.. but now the clay will also become haven for guys with powerful serve.. cannot let that happen.. i'm not worried for rafa.. he will still murder them all.. i am worried about the spanish and latin american breed.. you won't have talents like guga and muster again if this continues..

clayking , 4/27/10 3:42 PM

Well Fed did win his Wimbledon titles after the courts were slowed down in 2002. Whether he can win Wimbledon on faster grass courts - nobody knows, maybe he can.

As for Rafa, since the day he played on grass, it had already been slowed down. Can he win on fast grass, again nobody knows, maybe he can?

We question Rafa's ability on fast courts - whether hard or grass - because he had not won the USO yet. Rafa is 23/24, and if he keeps improving his game on the fast hard courts, who knows one day he may win the USO! If he does, are we to question his ability on fast grass court then?

Put it this way, if Rafa is determined to win Wimbledon, whether the grass is fast or slow, he'll be determined to adapt his game to suit the surfaces. Likewise for USO, if he wants it badly, he'll go and get it. Given his talent and determination, I'm sure he can do it.

About the FO surface, I think the commentators mentioned that last year the weather was dry and hence the court surface was dry and played more like a hard court. That explains why big servers with big forehands did well last year at the FO.

luckystar , 4/27/10 3:56 PM

tj: i've heard that too that FO is now a bit faster. can't say i know anymore beyond that. i have also heard that the centre differs slightly compared to other courts but i don't kow if that's still the case. would love to know more. i would hate to say that sod beat rafa because RG is now like HC. if rafa beats him this year, would people than say the court became slower? :) anyway, all t players play on the same court, they have to adjust where necessary.

yeah, i've also heard USO court has slowed slightly but i don't know enough about DecoTurf. i know it's still fast which can be seen by who dominates on that surface but even hartcourts differ like oz now uses plexicusion but they used to use rebound ace which hewitt said became slower overtime (agreed by other players) because of wear and tear and natural elements, etc. one player even said it became nearly like clay where the ball sat up waiting for the returner to hit but tennis australia has now changed the surface (tho might be an exageration). hard to say. we need a court expert here to clarify the finer points for us. i guess it's like maya says above, lots of talk these days about court surfaces changing.

luckystar: exactly!

homos , 4/27/10 4:12 PM

I also remember them commenting about the dry weather last year at the FO and its effect on the courts. I also remember the comments about Madrid and the winds that blew so hard at times it exposed the surface (basically a HC surface) underneath. They were always laying fresh clay down which, on true clay, several surfaces are layered with time in between to "season" and let it settle the way it is supposed to be.

fan4tennis , 4/27/10 4:12 PM

Can you provide a link to this "article" you read that says Fed benefited from a slower surface at Wimbledon? Just curious to know if it exists or was fabricated by you. Aren't links usually provided when such points are raised? I'd really like to see if there is such an idiotic tennis writer who would write such a story? If there is such an article, it probably was written by a Fed-hater like yourself. You know that's the only reason you brought it up : to try to diminish Fed's accomplishments. Well fast court or slow court it doesn't matter. You play on what's beneath you and the best are able to adapt their game to it. Don't also deny that you complained about the Madrid clay and brought it up as a reason why Nadal didn't win there last year. You even sarcastically stated that they might as well play a grass Masters (there is no such thing) before RG.

chr18 , 4/27/10 7:50 PM

"well fast court or slow court it doesn't matter"
just because you are a fed fan does not mean you will raise such silly points..
it makes a hell lot of a difference if it is fast or slow..
no one is trying to diminish fed's achievement..
he is the best of this era, there is no denying that..
but saying it won't matter if the court is fast or slow does not show you in good light as a knowledgable fan..

p.s. if you are going to give a reason why you said so, i am expecting a proper reason.. just don't start ranting..

clayking , 4/27/10 8:06 PM

Like I said the best will adapt to any surface fast or slow. The best players play well on both.

chr18 , 4/27/10 8:12 PM

are you not putting it rather simply??
what you are saying is mere speculation.. i can speculate that had wimbledon been played on faster courts fed would have lost to phillipousis in finals.. i can say fed won't have won so many and won't have been in the pantheon of greats if the surfaces were faster..i can keep on speculating.. fed may not have been eligible to be called the best as you put it ,had the surface been faster.. you just don't know about such things.. but with the conditions that were there fed won.. that was great and that is a fact... and there is no diminishing that achievement.. however another fact is that in 2002 the courts were made slower..
the problem here is you are saying speed of courts won't make any difference to fed and you are simply speculating he will adapt.. you cannot say things like that just for the sake of it.. if you can present everyone with a proper tennising reason as to why speed of courts won't make a differene to fed,i will rest my case..

clayking , 4/27/10 8:37 PM

There are GREAT claycourt players who didn't adapt to hc at all. Same is true in reverse. If speed doesn't count, then neither does bounce, humidity, weather, etc. and all the other things that seem to come into play for individual players. And yet thats what we hear from the players themselves. Andy Roddick has never adapted to clay court because of all of the conditions listed above.

Maya , 4/27/10 9:33 PM

Er, "tennising" isn't a word but I get what you mean. It is all speculation and it's pointless to go on with a bunch of "what if?" gibberish.

I was referring to great all-court players. Being great on clay doesn't make you a great tennis player overall. That's why some are called specialists. As far as A'dick is concerned, he's not a great anything except the last 4 letters of his surname. He's never won Wimbledon and the only HC GS he won was because Nalby choked away the SF and he got all the homeboy line calls in '03.

chr18 , 4/27/10 10:13 PM

chr18, is being great on grass or h/c make one a great tennis player overall?

nadline , 4/27/10 10:23 PM


chr18, DOES being great on grass or h/c make one a great tennis player overall?

nadline , 4/27/10 10:26 PM

If you meant Fed, he does own all 4 GS plus he is great on grsss, HC and very good on clay so yes he is a great tennis player overall, the greatest ever IMO.

chr18 , 4/27/10 10:35 PM

chr18: "As far as A'dick is concerned, he's not a great anything except the last 4 letters of his surname. He's never won Wimbledon and the only HC GS he won was because Nalby choked away the SF and he got all the homeboy line calls in '03."

And, you' re not great at anything except to spout a load of nonsensical drivel, coupled with the flourishing emotions of hate that's within, as is evidenced continually in your posts.. BTW, what about the bad call roddick got in '02 vs. hewitt, which enabled hewitt to win? Of course, you've conveniently forgotten that one, isn't it? Selective memory ....

I've seen posts from you where you glory in the didactics of the use of proper language being used on these threads, yet, you insist on being a propent of the same filthy language yourself?

The above quote is one of the many times you've referred to Roddick as *A'dick*. Do you think by writing the *A* before the last four letters of Roddick's name, gets you off the hook, and satisfies the requirements of dignified speech? I don't think so. Why not go all th way and remove the *A* entirely. Ahh, but that takes guts, doesn't it? On the contrary, it shows that you are one who is incapable of rising up from the mire. Your hate for Roddick and Nadal is clouding your better judgment, that is, if you are capable of using better judgment. Anyway, been there, done that, isn't it??

Von , 4/28/10 12:22 AM

chr18: "Er, "tennising" isn't a word but I get what you mean. It is all speculation and it's pointless to go on with a bunch of "what if?" gibberish."

Neither is *A'dick* someone's name. capiche?

Von , 4/28/10 12:24 AM

It's one of many nicknames I have for many players. Other examples are the Sod, Berdy, Baggey, Fer'dasco, Mandy,etc. It's just a habit. If you've noticed I don't have a nickname for Nadal.

chr18 , 4/28/10 12:57 AM

chr18: I can understand the nicks for the others, which are fine, but don't you think A'dick is a bit lewd? and/or derrogatory? Why not Randy, o rA-Rod? Anyway, just saying .....

Von , 4/28/10 1:04 AM

Also, chr18, I would have believed you abou the nick, but the following, says you're not being upfront with me: "he's not a great anything except the last 4 letters of his surname."

Von , 4/28/10 1:08 AM


Don't do me and Rafa fans any favors by coming up with a so-called nickname for Rafa! Spare us! If your supposed nickname for Roddick is any indication of how your mind works, spare Rafa! I also think you are being quite disingenuous in pretending that the way in which you persist in referencing Roddick is anything but derogatory and quite tasteless.

Nativenewyorker , 4/28/10 1:48 AM

chr18: you are nothing more than a troublemaker. even the players complained about madrid. and you know full well that you are merely a pathetic rafa hater, nothing more. It is you who constantly diminishes rafa?s achievements and only like players who beat rafa like sod. You have the gall to say your interests are braod, my ass, it?s so obvious you know nothing beyond fed and, since FO 2009, soderling.

the link you want, because you didn't have the brains to search yourself and only love to accuse people of fabrcicating things because you don?t agree with (just like fed?s gamesmanship at AO that you guys accuse me of making up despite the fact that it was televised worldside)..,9171,18157 24,00.html:
"In 2001, Wimbledon tore out all its courts and planted a new variety of groundcover?.Ivanisevic and Rafter were able to blast their way through the new grass because an exceptionally rainy two weeks had kept the courts soft. But the ground eventually dried, and baseliners have excelled since; in men's tennis, Roger Federer, who serves and volleys only around 10% of the time, has reigned supreme?.
"Grass specialist Tim Henman spoke out against this change in 2002, stating "What on earth is going on here? I'm on a grass court and it's the slowest court I've played on this year".[4] As a result, serving and volleying has become rare at Wimbledon and dominant baseliners such as Roger Federer have won the most recent titles.

Grass courts were once among the most common tennis surfaces, but are now rare due to high maintenance costs, as they must be watered and mown often, and take a longer time to dry after rain than hard courts". (this of course is not an article but unlike chr18, i read so much i can't always remember).

now fed has lost, go crawl back to your hole and don't address me again because i've no doubt you will accuse me of being the writer of those words because that's exactly how pathetic you are!!

native: have you noticed that the it's the same fed fans who must crawl out of their holes to cause trouble? You know why? They know nothing about tennis beyond federer. If you are not bowing to federer blindly like they are, you should be the target of their hatred. puke!

homos , 4/28/10 3:36 AM


Yes, I have noticed that it's the same people over and over again. We can reel off their names in quick succession. But what does them in every single time is facts and the truth. They will resort to the most devious and manipulative means of attacking people. They will pretend to be nice and in the next breath, accuse someone of plagiarizing their words, as if that could actually happen once it's posted on the internet. Certain people get delusions of grandeur, as if some phrases and words are uniquely and exclusively their own.

I love it when you get feisty! I hope you didn't have to waste too much of your time and energy digging up those article to refute chr18. I understand the frustration at having to go over the same argument repeatedly, feeling like you are banging your head against a brick wall. You are! It's the brick wall of ignorance, deceit and unreasoned hate.

Our only crime is that we are Rafa fans. Period.

Nativenewyorker , 4/28/10 3:42 AM

native, yes did waste some time as i always do with these people regardless the reason. i'm rather busy and hadn't intended to post today, heading into a busy time. had thought of not doing IT the pleasure but i'm in a generous mood today. those aren't even all the articles i read, some are from magazines (particularly the cost issues) but i've better things to do. my only weakness is that i love discussing tennis with rafans and certain fed fans like tj600, champion7 and of course out beloved deuce, a refreshing bunch.

couldn't resist logging back on when i saw your post. always a pleasure to 'see' you around here!

yes, waste of time to repeat things. hence why i said don't address me because i can't stand IT who only comes to cause trouble. period.

"..brick wall of ignorance, deceit and unreasoned hate." spot on native, you couldn't be more accurate!!

homos , 4/28/10 3:58 AM

You made incorrect inferences regarding the articles you read. After the surface change at Wimbledon, who serves and vollies besides Taylor Dent? Nobody. You never thought that Fed didn't win W until '03 because he was developing as a player and didn't peak until '04 when he started winning everything. Fed is an attacker, not a baseliner in any case. If W were still fast, clearly he would serve and volley more and still win. He has had to improve his defence to play on clay but he's an attacker first and foremost.

It's no crime to be a Nadal fan. There are some nice (even some reasonable) Nadal fans here. You and homos just don't fall into that category.

chr18 , 4/28/10 4:27 AM

just wanted to say one thing..
tenising is a proper word..
now what do you mean by fed is an attacker??
that's a new term??
do you mean offensive baseliner??

clayking , 4/28/10 5:12 AM


Yes, I am trying to be busy because life happens in the midst of these increasingly absurd arguments. But look! We are not the nice or reasonable Rafa fans here! I am crushed! :)


If you had said anything else, now that would have been an insult. But I take what you said as a compliment, because having you think I am one of the so-called nice Rafa fans, would make me literally sick.

Nativenewyorker , 4/28/10 7:24 AM

Chr18: Homos obviously knows more about RF's game than you do. Your 4:27 post was again pointless. If Homos thought that Fed was a baseliner, he would not have expressed surprised at the writer claiming RF is a baseliner, etc. You are obviously embarrassed by the fact that you called Homos a liar but cant bring yourself to admit you are wrong so what do you do? You FABRICATE things, yes put words into Homos' mouth by pretending to defend Fed. Very sad. You have been outed.

Like I said, if your knowledge was as impressive as any other fan here, you would have answered the technical questions. Instead, you only come here to spoil a good discussion and cause trouble with the Rafa and Murray fans.

jean , 4/28/10 9:58 AM

Native, Homos, for the record I think you are both nice and reasonable Rafa fans:)

Champion7 , 4/28/10 10:40 AM

I totally agree Champion 7 and would add fan4t, remi to that list. In fact as the fan of am neutral, 99.9% of Rafa fans are gr8! And Vamos Rafa against Kohlschreiber!!

deuce , 4/28/10 11:46 AM

i agree with champion7 and deuce.

tj600 , 4/28/10 1:05 PM

Not to belabour the point but "tennising" is not in Webster's dictionary so it's not a word. Slang words don't count to me. Fed plays aggressive attacking tennis. He comes forward a lot.

It's clear homos was taking a cheap shot at Fed. The articles were not backing up what he said. If you don't have something useful to post, just chill next time.

chr18 , 4/28/10 1:50 PM

chr18, you must not be a good fed fan because I was told last year that Webster's dictionary is not valid and should never be used by quite a few fedfans when I challenged a word definition. Of course, those fedfans never bothered to say what dictionary the world was supposed to use when referring to fed. So by your own fellow fans words, your using Webster's is a joke. Check with your fellow fans and get back to us.

fan4tennis , 4/28/10 3:40 PM

native, tj, champion, jean, deuce, remi: thanks for your support. it's people like you (and many others of course like fft, clayking, etc. etc) that make this a great site. just a pity this trouble maker can't control their ways, now resorting to lies to dig themselves out of their hole.

native: well, the reasonable fed fans think you are nice and reasonable :) now don't cringe away because i can tell you tj and champion ARE very nice and reasonable fed fans who can engage in a healthy and mature discussion without conjuring up lies. have you noticed only one person has caused trouble again and made an issue out of nothing? the same one? laughable. anyway, we agreed to try and avoid IT.

tj: i didn't hear about the RG court ?drying out? as fft & luckystar mentioned, that could answer my/your question. i must have missed the commentator explaining that. i still don't know about the US court slowing down tho. if you get more information on that i?d love to know.

homos , 4/28/10 3:45 PM

Thank you homos and deuce for your kind words. You know I like both of ya and I also like Murray and Nole (I root for Rafa when he plays them..sorry). I know of and OLD saying (I didn't make this one up and am not claiming it as my own) that fits the "IT's" of this site........One bad apple can spoil the bunch. Please add Clorostoma and Miniarbre to list of fair and objective and nice fans. Sky is a fed fan but he/she has never said a bad word about another player in the long time I have posted here also.

fan4tennis , 4/28/10 4:08 PM

i read somewhere that they slowed it down a bit. It said that when roddick and ferrero made the final in 03, they thought they got the balance right.(Roddick being an offensive minded player, n ferrero being more defensive orientated) Sorry, but i read it a while back, so I forgot the site. Ill try n find it when i hav some free time..

tj600 , 4/28/10 4:15 PM

fft: i was only having a very pleasant discussion yesterday with chlo on the "mourning the end of federer and nadal" blog. did you see it? i can't believe i left her out but that's why i added the etc tho she deserved to be named! i don't seem to see sky here a lot and haven't read her posts but have no doubt you would call a spade a spade. i sometimes come to the site very briefly so i miss a lot of posts. as i say, most are really good, only few bad apples, very few. as for miniarbre, native and i were discussing few days ago how much we miss her and her posts. we figured she might have been put off by said apple!

tj: thanks for that. i didn't know about that. so it must be true that the court is slower. was it deliberate then? no hurry, i know what it's like to have to find something you read so long ago. why i only had to do that some hours ago! i think i read somewhere once about the court being slower but nothing else about it. i was curious about whether it was delieberate and why/when it was done.

homos , 4/28/10 4:38 PM

homos, yes I saw chlorostoma's recent postings and yours. She is always very level-headed and fair. Sky used to post alot more about a year ago. Sky is an avid (not rabid-lol) fedfan and she always praises him and is very much the optimist. Even amid all the squabbling going on, she (or he..sorry) NEVER has said a bad word about another player. She strictly sticks to praising fed without trying to bring down others. Thre are many good TENNIS fans on this site (add TopDog too) so yes, it is a shame when a few bad apples ruin the bunch.

fan4tennis , 4/28/10 4:57 PM

well saw your discussion just now..
thanx guys that i'm on the good guy list.. :D
well i have not been here around for long..
so i do not know..
but i think maxi is also a good fan..
maybe too emotional about fed..
but i have not seen her saying anything bad about others..

personally i am of the belief that if any player has done something against the rules, we fans can say bad things about him/her, can't we??
we certainly can air our opinions..
i'll be frank..
if i would have been around during wayne odesnik issue, i might have said some bad things about him.. what he did was so disgusting!
and what serena did last year was low too.. i would hav said bad about her too..
if there is ever a discussion about petr korda, why, i will certainly say something bad about him..
so if someone among us airs our view about a player for the player's misconduct, you certainly cannot hold it against us..
of course you cannot go the gomuzza way..
but still we should have the right to say bad about a guy if he did something bad..
tt is to air our opinions.. not to preach "forgive and forget" philosophy..
you guys may differ and you certainly can..
this is just my view..

p.s. thanks again for putting me on good guy list :D

clayking , 4/28/10 5:50 PM

clayking, I agree with your post (except for one sentence--lol), but it also depends on the opinions of how others view "what is bad and what isn't." Some do not believe something is bad, but others do and that starts debates and arguments. Some posters get way too personal in their attacks to defend their opinion. I much prefer this kind of talk as to praising the good posters here on TT. There are many, not just those named, and they should be recognized by their fellow TT fans.

fan4tennis , 4/28/10 6:05 PM

I meant "as to" rather than "as in". I prefer the praise of others rather than the personal attacks.

fan4tennis , 4/28/10 6:25 PM

you are right in saying that views may differ on what is bad and what is good..
but certainly anyone who loves tennis won't differ in saying what odesnik did was bad or serena's tirade was bad..
in such case we obviously know what happened there was unethical and leaves a sour taste for us who love this game..we can criticise them in such conditiions because it is unanimously agreed that it was bad..
i would have criticised them.. i know that..

p.s. just curious about the one sentence where we have a difference of opinion

clayking , 4/28/10 6:34 PM

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kuleshs , 7/13/10 2:23 PM

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