looks pretty good to me

B could be harder, but if Del Potro has recovered, they appear even

also this could be an IDEAL draw in terms of producing the most intriguing matchups

Nadal-Sod, Delpo-Fed, Fed-Murray, etc.

I agree Ricky some interesting match-ups on the horizon...... I certainly hope we'll get to see some good tennis. We usually get some predictions from you Ricky, how come no predictions this time???? I must admit it is hard to predict. For some reason, I feel Fed is going to come up with something interesting and win the whole thing...... Murray, the local hero will ride on a confidence wing and will trouble Federer, but how much will he be able to acquire, we shall see!!!!! He has advantage playing on his turf in front of his crowd. On the other side, I never write Rafa off, because he is "The warrior of Tennis" and it's never easy with him.... He may just pull a rabit out of the hat!!!! You never know????? Nole is confident, in-form at the moment, but that could easily go down the drain if he is too tired and physically drained...... And than the rest of the field.... Any of them (Davy, Delpo, Verdasco, Sod could easily turn into dark horses overnight... It all depends how much permission they will get from the top 4 dogs...... Very interesting....... Nice way to celebrate Thanksgiving week.....Watching let's hope great tennis... May the games begin.

Very very interesting match up.

I dunno who will win this. Maybe it's a gud chance for Rafa to get back his confidence if he wins this but I do not see him doing it in this tournament. He probably would get to the SF.

I think favourite is Djokovic or Murray.

its hard to judge murray until ive seen him play - i didnt watch valencia so i dunno how much better he's getting. but i would say that as of now, the faveorite is either nole or federer.

I'd be surprised if Nadal can win one match considering his hardcourt record against all the guys in his group. Looks like Djokovic has a great shot at repeating and Fed vs. Murray will definitely be interesting. I don't see any darhorses winning this one.

Well...I am not to intrigued who will come to final...Andy or ExFed ( or Delpo if he' s healthy)...whats important is that Nole from this side will EAT him...
This is NOLE'S TIME. Ruling champion will defend his points.
Personaly I would like Muza...after ExFed in Basell, Rafa and Gael in Paris...it's...
London Calling :-)

Tough draw no? VAMOS RAFA...Will be there to support + cheer you on. VAMOS

Ricky, I'll give you a prediction, as I just can't sit by and not mention a few crucial things concerning the groupings that we have been given.
First, and most importantly, this is a terrible draw for Rafa, he has lost his most recent matches convincingly against all 3 of his opponents. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong but he has only taken one set in those 3 matches?!
Secondly, I don't see Del Potro being strong in this event, he just isn't mentally there yet, winning the US was a fairy tale for him, nothing more, he never expected to win it to be honest. Has played terrible since and been plagued by injury.
Murray will feel more pressure than Wimbledon in this one, and it will be interesting to see how he deals with that. I think Delpo will win their match, he'll want to.
Fed, well, has a lot to prove to himself. I believed that if he had got through that 1st round at Bercy, he'd have made a great run, maybe even taken the title. But like they say, 1st round is always the toughest. How many times have we seen Fed play a tough early match at a slam, scrape through and then race to the title.
Novak, been on a great run, played an absolute terrible fed in basil, so I wasn't that impressed, I make more forehands than fed did in that final. Against monfills, he mentally had a let down and scraped through. But never the less, 2 titles, fair play to him.
Conclusion: I see Davydenk and Djokovic in semi with Davydenko winning, and Federer and Murray with fed edging it, if he keeps excited and doesn't get bored, otherwise Murray will scrape through.

eelesino - Federer and Murray cant play in the semis, nor can Davydenko and Djokovic.

You play someone from the other group in the semifinals.

1A vs. 2B and 1B vs. 2A

Jesus wept, haha, my bad. Did it from my iphone between work appointments so wasn't thinking. My apologies.
Fed vs. Davydenko. Murray vs Djokovic.
Winner: I can't call it. But will enjoy watching I'm sure.

why will there be "no love lost between Murray and Del Potro" ?

So rafa got what he didn't want,the same happen to fed.

"why will there be "no love lost between Murray and Del Potro" ?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muM-UQc_Tnk&feature=PlayList&p=05 86097DB9F20898&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=40

Sanela - because there is no love between them to lose!

I love Rafa, but I don't see him getting beyond Round Robin or possbly SF. This is not his favorite surface and he has lost to each of these players this year. I think Djoker from Group B and from Group A prob Murray.

thnx posmatrac - i saw the video, made me like DelPo even more ;)

My first reaction when I saw the draw was laughter. I mean, you just have to laugh. There should be a poem written about Rafa and The Draw. Maybe if I read through my collection of poems by Edgar Allen Poe , I'll find one.

I am just beside myself with (slightly hysterical) giggles. I mean, Djokovic, Sodemort AND Davy D ?! *exhales slowly*
To be completely honest (as I try my best to be), I'm actually okay with it now. Actually, I'm more than okay! I'm ECSTATIC!

I will NOT drown myself in buckets of Baskin Robins ice-cream because (call me crayzay) I actually think that Rafa can do it! Quit laughing at me, I'm serious! Picking Djokovic and Murray as the favorites is SO logical, reasonable and sensible that I absolutely refuse to do so! It's too safe and predictable for me! I love living on the wild (and optimistic-to-the-point-of-delusion) side, that I'm going with Rafa to lift the trophy. I have yet to consider how he will do that, but I'm more of a "one step at a time" type of person.

Torres9, you scaredy cat! C'mon man, I realize you like to be realistic with your choices, but let me see you tip your guy to win it! Even though you may feel that the odds are against him for whatever reason. Stick your neck out and try to give a reason why he WILL win it! How?s this for a start: 28-5 record at WTF.

Seeing as Murray and Djokovic fans are sitting pretty. I have nothing to say to you. You don't need anymore motivation. *sticks tongue out at said fans*

These are my reasons why I think Rafa will win:
1- He's Rafa.
2- ...*blush* *blush* *giggles*
3- Consider this, he has been very consistent throughout the tail end of this year. His worst result was a quarter final finish. YES he exhibited some frighteningly BAD tennis in Paris, but what he lacked in tennis he made up for in tenacity (I love that about him.) As long as he has his mind and heart, he has a darn good chance for the victory.

4- He was totally getting in the groove of things when he defeated Jo Willy in straight sets (did I mention that they were playing in Paree on an indoor hard court?!) Rafa started off the tourney making close to 40 UFE in his matches, he ended it making less than 10 (yeah I know, VERY Rafa-like.) He was obviously tightening the screws. I really think he?s beginning to find the missing piece. When things click and come together (like they did in his match vs. Tsonga) look out!

4- Yes, he eventually lost the tournament anyway. But really, when you honestly think about it, should this be looked at as a bad thing? Djokovic IS world number 3, so the idea of him winning a Masters 1000 title isn't exactly shocking. Plus, he played some of the best tennis he's exhibited in a long while! (The timing of that burst of inspiration is of no surprise to me. He attracts to Rafa like 12 year old girls to the Jonas Brothers. Then again, Rafa seems to have that effect on everybody. It?s kind of annoying actually. I wish he?d stop inpiring people.) So I say that his losses to Djokovic and Davy D aren't all bad because they played over-the-rainbow-zomg! tennis and they are top eight players, so it's normal. BTW, a quick congrats to Djokovic fans on his recent victories and a congrats to Monfils fans as well.

5- Rafa has left Paree with a positive attitude and confidence. He has now played a good amount of matches and he's lost because he was facing a possessed opponent on the day he lost, not because they played bad and he just played worse. The Round Robin format of WTF (I see the ATP have a sense of humor) means that Rafa will be thrown into the deep end of the pool. That means that he will feel under attack from the get-go. Usually a Rafa that is feeling under threat is an aggressive Rafa. An aggressive Rafa is a dangerous Rafa. He knows what to expect.

6- He has zero points to defend.

7- Although the number one ranking is the farthest thing from his mind, I think that the possibility alone will motivate him. Even if it is just a teeny tiny little bit. Even if it's subconsciously. Plus, if he gets ONE win it will be against a top ten player and that will give him a confidence boost to get another win and from there it will be a snowball effect. It's important he has a strong and positive start.

8- He lost to all of the players on his side of the draw the last time they met. He didn?t just lose, he was walloped. I say: So what?

9- Uncle Toni (the GOAT of coaches) will be there. I get a fuzzy feeling inside when I see him court side. Seeing as he's practically like Rafa's 2nd Dad, I can only imagine what extra feelings of motivation, comfort and calm he offers him. Plus he's in London. They really love him there!

10- He's Rafa. As long as he steps out on court he has a fighting chance. And he will make the most of it. If there?s one thing we all know, it?s never underestimate a Champion. Vamos!

What do you guys think? It?s fun trying something different and giving reasons as to why our particular favorites WILL win. Even if we feel that the odds are against them (yeah, yeah, Murray and Djokovic fans are excused from this particular assignment if they wish.)

***********

In the end, I love tennis. I love watching it, I love losing sleep over it, I love losing what sanity I have left over it and I love losing my voice over it. It'll be great to watch. Although all of the injuries and retirements in the tail end of this season has been both painful and frustrating. I hope that the ATP get the hint and actually do something to help the athletes.

P.S. Talking about someone's Mommy is a major no-no. I don't care who it is and what your beef with that person is. Most especially in Hispanic cultures. So Del Potro knew that he was being hurtful and all kinds of wrong when he did what he did. I think that is why he apologized to Murray about that last year. I think that the two of them are over it. Although sometimes two people just CANNOT get along and the best thing to do is avoid each other. They're like two kid brothers who fight all the time. They both have the uncanny ability to get under each others skins even though they "kiss and make up" at the end of every match they play against each other. It never fails. Plus the fact that Del Potro got a Grand Slam before Murray is probably doubly annoying to him as well (it's like the younger brother passing the driver's test and getting a car first.) Ricky's right, this should be fun.

As a die hard rafa fan, just wanna say, the draw it like death sentence to the spanish bull. All 3 guys in there have thrashed Rafa this yr and unless with miracles, i dont see rafa taking even a set off anyone of them, he's the whipboy of the bunch on this particular surface no question. I say Djoko and Davydenko is the heavy favourite for the group. Rafa's form on hard court is a joke, anyone with big forehand from Mr. No Body to the known ones can all easy blow him off the court. He's simply there to make up the numbers these days, sigh...

Hope you can start all fresh in 2010 just like you did in OZ open last yr...............VAmos RAFAAAA

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mini, as always, love reading your expressive posts. i was going to agree with torres' pick but you've swayed me. can't not cheer for our man. i wouldn't mind seeing murray or nole win too, like both of them. just hope delpo and everyone can stay healthy. they have such a long season!

I so agree with MiniArbre and I want to be right being a die-hard Rafa fan.
But being a teeny bit practical, the Djoker is the favourite to win, Rafa has the hardest draw of all(Djoker,Davyd, Soder)....
But again keeping all this aside,
1)We should all hope & and pray for Rafa's win.
2)Hope he becomes No. 1 again.
3)Look forward to a great week of Tennis
To end, as always
VAMOS RAFA

Ok...I am Nole's fan...
But...don't know why...don't give da..m about ExFed and Muza...but Rafa. Nole destroyed him last time...but that doesn't mean that will always be like that on HC. Rafa is Rafa. You never know what will this warrior do next. I realy hope that he will be back in form...even if my man is in chase for No2...for next few months I will say...Rafa NO 1 ,Nole No 2...

Rafa's draw is tough...Soderling 1st match...looking 4ward to watching Rafa Round Robin! GO RAFA..VAMOS...you are ,as they say , Rafael nadal...expect the unexpected..Time to rise + shine..VAMOS

and the FedExpress takes to the court again ...

i think no matter how we arrange it ,the draw for anyone is going to be tough ...i mean , we are talking about the 8 best players in the world all competing against each other. Some may be performing better than the other, but the very fact they are in the tournament just proves that you cant count them out . There is no such thing as one person in the same group has a tougher draw than the others in his group ...thats rubbish considering they all will play each other except themselves . We can compare one group to another , but i dont think swapping players around between these 2 groups is gona make it any easier to make it to the semi's .

The maestro certainly has his work cut out for him . The first match is a repeat of arguably the best match in the TMC last year . I cant wait for this one . 2 back to back wins against murray would certainly boost the FedExpress . I bet Fed is going to come out are gun blazing . He loves playing in new places and making history ... if his serve is ON ...the Fedtrain is going to run over everyone .
I hope JMDP will be feeling well and will put up a good show like the USO .The dark horse, Verdasco is actually the one i am really worried about ...if he goes back to his AO09 form ...he is a danger to everyone.

The other group ...well ...the favorite , Djoker is there. Soderling is a guy whom i think is either going to do REALLY well or terribly bad .... i dont think there is middle ground with him . Davydenko normally provides a very steady performance and i think he will be second in this group . Rafart , well , cant count him out . The players against him all attack ..so if he is going to stand behind the baseline and defend ...he ought to hope and pray for his opponent to have an off day or pack his bags . He has a chance of breaking through but his first match will set the tone .

C'MON !!

Murray will probably repeat last year's feat and knock out federina.

Nole fans, it looks like Todd Martin will accompany Nole in London...good news, I think. :) I read it here:
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/columns/story?columnist =garber_greg&id=4666408

Mini, I am a realistic person. I always base my prediction with current form. But for sure I will root for Fed to win it.

You mean i'm gonna support Muzza, Nole, Delpo, Rafa if they meet Fed? No way.

I think if Fed plays his best on hardcourts, not one of the players can beat him. Even Rafa (previous TMCs meetings, Fed beat Nadal in str8 sets), Djoker(beat him so many times in USO so convincingly) or Muzza(Destroyed him in USO and Cincy and most of Muzza win was when Muzza was on a hot streak at the end of 2008).

So if Fed plays his best, he'll definitely win it. But it's an IF.

Based on current form, I think it's Djoker who is the fav.

If...If...to much...
Lets set ourselfs in front of our screens...relax...(if that's possible???) ...and ENJOY!!!
We can love or hate Roger, Rafa, Nole...but...just imagine next week...
....WHAT RIDE..!!!
GOOD LUCK TO ALL PLAYERS AND THEIR FANS ALL AROUND WORLD!!!
ps...how much I hate football...poor Ireland...INJUSTICE!!!

well said, zare.

It's too bad (from a fan's perspective) this isn't a two week, best of five set affair. If it were it would be like the Super Bowl of tennis. It's assured the matches will have top players competing against each other unlike Grand Slams where you can have early round upsets.
P.S. Real football players wear helmets.....soccer sucks.

"P.S. Real football players wear helmets.....soccer sucks."

if they were real they wouldn't wear helmets :) .... soccer is great but american football is just plain wrong.

Wow, how refreshing to have the post which puts Rafa as favorite to win London! Thank you MiniArbre! I like your predictions and as much bias as I can be I will completely agree with you and vote for Rafa. I strongly support Rafa and believed in him when nobody did, so I could not agree with those who claim to be Rafa fans and then speak about him losing all the matches in London! Rafa will never let opponent win easily or give up beforehand. So these statements on tough draw should not bother him at all...He will fight till the end and he will in fact be the one to fear as he has always been! Rafa?s reputation of an ultimate warrior & winner is something he has earned over time by beating exactly those guys whom we all think he fears now...it is just the opposite: all of them in Rafa?s draw are very much uncomfortable having him there! They are not sure how he will play, will he make it easier on them, which face will he put on this time- defensive or offensive-and at the end Rafa is the one who pulls all the strings and determines the ultimate result! Most of the matches Rafa played after the injury where solely dependent on him and if he had been able to play his game he would have won! He is back now, he had enough matches and tests, there is nor reason for him not to play his best tennis! If one underestimates Rafa?s powers than he ends up the way Tsonga did...Vamos Rafa!!!

Torres9, *nods*, fair enough. I understand your perspective. But I think Fedexfan gave you a run for your money in the optimism department. :p

Speaking of which, Fedexfan, while I would normally agree that WTF is going to be tough no matter how you slice it seeing as the top eight players in the world are there, I can't help but laugh at the fact that the two players that are injured (one needing foot surgery and one with an abdominal injury) end up on the opposite side of Rafa. I can't help but throw up my hands and exclaim: "Of course! Wouldn't expect anything else!" But no worries. I stand by my original post and my original reasons as to why I think Rafa will be victorious in London. He'll be playing Sodemort first huh? Bring. It. On. -_-

*high fives Natashao* Well said! You too Homos (thank you by the way *nudges*), Jaskarans, Zare, and the rest of you. :)

********

Chr18, are you nuts?! The tennis players would have you tarred, feathered, AND flogged for even suggesting that they play the year-end championships in a best of five format! The poor guys are barely standing up straight as it is! They'd need a full body cast!

But I'm SO with you on the whole football comment. I mean, I just can't wrap my head around a sport where a 0-0 scoreline is an acceptable ending after playing for hours on end. Now Football, that's where it is at! They wear helmets because if they didn't they'd kill each other, plus, they need the helmets because they actually use their brains as well as their brawn when playing. The combination of codes, strategies, trying to penetrate an offense, trying to build an impregnable defense...it's fantastic stuff!

Who's your favorite team Chr18? If you say the New England Patriots, I swear to Gosh *readies fist*....

That's why I said from a fan's perspective; I know the players would not like it. I have an alternate solution though. Start the season in March on clay, move up the FO, play about a month on grass before Wimbledon, leave the USO as is then have the year end tournament with best of five format. You can still have it in Melbourne i.e. AO or somewhere else but then it would have that Super Bowl feel to it. That way the off season would be a good three months. I know it won't happen like that but it would be nice. Oh, Pats are my 2nd favorite, Broncos 1st.

MiniArbre , 11/19/09 2:03 AM
A classic posting from you. I like it. And congratulations for having the courage to air your thoughts like that. I harbour the same dream but lack the guts to put it down in black and white for the whole world to see.

At the best of times lifetime H2H stats are misleading. At any one moment player A might be on the wane and player B on an upward surge. That's what upsets are all about. Rafa's hardcourt H2H with his WTF opponents looks very different based on the past 18 months results. Did anybody predict with certainty he would win the Gold at Beijing, or the AO come to that? I dont think so.

And before all the stat lovers jump in with contra figures - please do a little trend analysis please.

oh MiniArbre ..of course ....we must add the spice of conspiracy to this ...i thought that was all gone with carrie but i was so wrong NOT to generalize .
Well , maybe ur right ...maybe they ( the conspiracy goons ) thought 2 consecutive walkovers to give someone a place in the final of a MASTER 1000 was enough of a break ...do we really want to go down this road ? anyways , i cannot for the life of me understand why you would want JMDP in the other group . Nadal's biggest straight set loss came from their last meeting . Im not saying that he will repeat the beatdown ...but I am saying that he can . Anyways , i would so trade JMDP for Soderling ....but that would make it a less dramatic tournament dont you think ? Soderling only has an interesting match up only with Nadal come to think of it ...the rest ...not so much hype about it ...

Anyyywayyysssss ..........

C'MON !!

C'MON fedexfan! LOL C'MON FEDERER!!! I hope Roger puts his HEART into this one! Just for the FUN of it! :)

Just because he is 28, what does it mean really, he can still WIN, WIN, WIN might as well give us a GREAT show in LONDON... :) He gets my vote! Go Rog go!

*puts up hands* Hey, hey, hey, cool your soup. I just made an observation and gave my reaction to it. Everyone's free to make of it what they will. The two players that are injured are in the same group (opposite Rafa), that's all I said. Innocent observation, simple fact. I don't know why you're getting all bent out of shape about it. *narrows eyes* Unless you know something we don't. Call it conspiracy (you said it, not me), coinkidink, opportunity, fate, destiny... I just put it out there.

As for the walkovers, Fedexfan, you just hit on something big.
Think about it, who would of ever guessed that Feli (FELI of all people!) would beat Sodemort? Of course if people bothered to do their research (don't look at me) they would have seen that Feli actually had a winning H2H going into that match, so it wasn't too far-fetched. But that brings me to Feli's match vs Rafa. At first glance it would appear that Feli rolled an ankle after attempting to be athletic at the end of the first set. But if you look closely at the footage of Feli vs Rafa (very closely and with a little imagination and an open mind), unless your blinder than a mother's love, you can clearly see that Feliciano Lopez was actually....shot.
(I've yet to venture a guess at who could be responsible for such an act. But they obviously didn't have Lopez's best interests at heart...or did they? No doubt a sniper is the only one who could pull off a shot like that (it's barely visible!) but I'm not 100% sure of the sniper's affiliation. You could say that the sniper wanted Rafa to have a walkover and so that shooting was a malicious act with the intent of giving Rafa a premature victory. Or, seeing as Rafa was obliterating a hapless Feli, you could say that maybe the sniper wanted to put Feli out of his misery. In that case, shooting him in the ankle would be an act of mercy and kindness.)

Evidence, you ask? Check out this clip at precisely 3:00. But be discreet about it, The Man would not want you to notice and start questioning things.

CLASSIFIED. EYES ONLY. : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSOQPhux38U

As for Rafa vs Lubi, well, at first I thought that They (whoever they are) got very arrogant and greedy and were taking a major risk. I mean, surely they'd KNOW that they'd raise a red flag by shooting, not one, but TWO of Rafa's opponents in a row at the same tournament (Lubi first, Feli second)?!

But if one looked closely at the video evidence and studied the footage carefully, they would be relieved (and probably disappointed) to see that there is no strange hanky panky behind that retirement. Lubi clearly injured his leg and aggravated his limbs after asking too much of his 30 year-old body by attempting to rally with Rafa to get the break-back he desperately wanted for a possible straight-sets victory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKh4Ei9IYW0&feature=related

No doubt that was merely a tragedy and Rafa was the beneficiary of Lubi's tweaked back. There are conspiracies and there are accidents. *sigh* But with Rafa's usual relationship with The Draw...could anybody really begrudge him that sudden stroke of luck? You'd have to be heartless to.

In the end, where money is involved, the idea of something yucky going on is not far-fetched (see exhibit A "Feli's Ouchie.") One would have to be a wide-eyed fool to assume that all is right in any organization, government or corporation. But since you bring up the 'C' word, all I have to say is this: "The Truth Is Out There" my friend.

As for all the potential match-ups, heck yeah I'm psyched! Dramar is on the horizon.
Now, would you be so kind as to pass me my tinfoil hat? Thank you, you're too kind.
***************

Chr18, I probably should have hinted at the fact that seeing as the majority of fans are not happy with how things are regarding the schedule, and many are very much ticked off at all the injuries and retirements, they'd probably wait in line and join in the flogging.

As for your alternate solution, as soon as I read "Start the season in March..." I had a sudden flash of angry kangaroos and rioting bandicoots. It wasn't pretty. I love the idea of a longer grass court season. I mean, a grass court "season" is practically nonexistent, it's an urban legend *looks knowingly at Fedexfan*, like the tennis "off season". Three months as on off-season is perfect.

I was thinking about your Superbowl reference. Don't you think that the four Grand Slams are tennis's equivalent of the Superbowl? I think WTF is more like the Pro Bowl, only the players themselves have control over whether or not they qualify (by winning a GS and/or finishing in the top eight.) Unlike the Pro Bowl where the individual players are voted in by the fans.

PATS huh? I swear Chr18...I want to just...bill..patriots...evil...*mimes strangulation*

*************

Ed251137, thanks very much. :) You made excellent points yourself. That's one of the things I love most about sports, the unpredictability factor. The possibility and potential for victory and glory, it is most especially a beautiful thing, when it happens despite the fact that its very occurrence is against all odds and reason. Who better to accomplish that feat, for the umpteenth time in their existence, than Rafael Nadal? Even though that gentleman has absolutely nothing to prove in that department. His reputation and accomplishments precede him.

I'm a realist, I expect miracles.

MiniArbre , I truly don't believe in conspiracies . However , the extend as to which you went to defend a passing remarks about the walkovers is really starting to make me thing whether I have been misled . :P

one thing i will agree with u ...a lot of mouth watering matches ....
second thing i will agree with u ....no one has an easy path to the prize...

third thing ...

C'MON !!