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  • Murray, Djokovic disagree on ranking system

    5/20/09 5:02 AM | Ricky Dimon
    Murray, Djokovic disagree on ranking system Andy Murray, having recently moved up to the No. 3 spot in the world rankings, says the system accurately reflects players' performances. Novak Djokovic, who got bumped by Murray, disagrees.

    Rafael Nadal's recent call for a two-year ranking system was not merely news in itself. It also created some serious disagreement between two of the world No. 1's three closest pursuers.

    First it was Novak Djokovic who sounded off in response to Nadal. Djokovic, who recently fell to No. 4 in the world, agreed with the Spaniard that the ranking system is in need of some tweaking. The Serb called his three clay-court Masters Series performances (two runner-ups and a semifinal) and a title in Belgrade an "incredible success--even if you are dropping a spot down in the rankings."

    Said Djokovic: "That shows how cruel the ranking system is in this sport."

    Murray, who replaced Djokovic as the No. 3 player in the world prior to the Madrid Open, would have none of that. "There always seem to be problems," Murray said of Djokovic, "and now it's obviously the rankings. Until this week I've never heard anyone complain. I think maybe only in the last week it's become a problem for Novak.

    "It's great that Novak's done well the last few weeks, but the first three or four months of the year I played a lot better than him," the Scot added. "So I think the rankings reflect very well how the guys are playing."



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Comments

Djoker would have to live with it, since Andy Murray is number 3 now and that's all. (not that i like to much the idea of Murray > Djoker in the ranking >_>)

Now, Djoker must win, win and win to recover his place as number 3 again. I can say he can and will do it.

Ariel , 5/20/09 5:31 AM


Before everyone jumps into Ricky's small trap, here is more detailed article, giving more of Novak thoughts (from "gototennisblog"):
************************************************** **********
Andy Murray became World No. 3 this week, ?leapfrogging? Novak Djokovic, who held the spot since August, 2007 (not bad, Nole!) The outspoken Serb is not happy about the shift, and expressed his frustration to reporters in Madrid on Wednesday (quotes via Tennisreporters.net and the Times U.K.):
?Playing three Masters Series finals in a row (Miami, Monte Carlo, Rome) and winning a 250 event (Belgrade) is incredible success and even then you are dropping a spot down in the rankings. . .That shows how cruel the ranking system is in this sport.?
?You just try to present your best and perform your best, and then you will gain points in certain periods of the year, but because of the way the rankings are, a lot of players drop in that pressure zone because you must defend those points each year. It?s not the best system because if you defend your titles the following year you don´t gain anything.?
Djokovic was sure to add that Andy ?absolutely deserves? his ranking - his problem resting with the system in general, not his specific situation:
?Federer or Nadal have been winning four or five grand slams in a row and they haven?t [added] a single point. I think this is an issue we have to talk about.?
Apparently he and Rafael Nadal did talk about it, with Rafa suggesting a system that wouldn?t require players to defend points on a week-in/week-out basis (via Tennisreporters.net):
?I think a ranking based on two years would be much better in terms of being relaxed and, from my point of view, would allow me to lengthen my career.? (Nadal said after his second round match on Wednesday.)
Andy Murray just rolled his eyes when asked about it in Thursday?s presser, implying that Novak was whining (via the Guardian):
?There always seems to be problems and now it?s obviously the rankings. . .It?s great that Novak?s done well the last few weeks but the first three or four months of the year I played a lot better than him so I think the rankings reflect very well how the guys are playing. . .Until this week I?ve never heard anyone complain. I think maybe only in the last week it?s become a problem for Novak.?
Murray added that he wasn?t opposed to Nadal?s two year plan, though he?d prefer to leave the actual points structure ?how it is for a while.?
I understand the frustration, but wouldn?t the same issues (or equally annoying ones) happen over two years? It has the potential of being even more confusing, with results stretching back across three seasons effecting the standings. I say let?s focus on the ITF?s insane drug testing policies first and then we can worry about the rankings system, bad cafeteria food, model ball girls fainting etc.
***********************************************************

HogarTheHorrible , 5/20/09 6:35 AM


I've always thought that the ranking system (both WTA and ATP) was more or less just ratings and not actual rankings. I mean, they're both pretty much designed to award players who are on hot streaks that could easily lose steam in a few short weeks.

Of course Murray wouldn't agree with Nole; he just got boosted up slightly on a technicality: Nole failed to defend Rome. Had Nole done so, Murray'd probably be singing a different tune right now.

tennisdeva , 5/20/09 6:53 AM


i find the ranking system good ....it is difficult to maintain being the no.1 player and it proves when you are capable of doing it for a prolonged period of time ....you deserve it .
the no.1 player ant afford to do horribly bad in one tourney and then win the next . To maintain the position they , on average would have to make it past the semi's every time and that makes them deserving of the title ...just my opinion .
be strong and consistent ...or make way for someone else who really wants it ..

fedexfan , 5/20/09 7:37 AM


and Djokovic is missing a very important point
Murray made it to the semi in Wimbledon and after that he had a pretty good results to defend until the rest of the year so basically he has only French Open to gain points from then it all will be about defending points, it is going to be interesting to see how he is going to handle that, Murray has said things about the Federer won over Nadal in Madrid saying" he had to win because Nadal was tired" it is so strange quite disrespectful he missed that Nadal is 5 years younger than Federer and he is physically the strongest player on tour, obviously he had his eyes set on 2 spot and he has all the right after the his performances at the beginning of the year but he has to give the others all the credit specially for one person who has 13 more grand slams than him when he has zero

tennislover , 5/20/09 8:06 AM


Actually, Murray at the moment should have 8020 and Novak 8680 point. But because of the ranking system drop date for Madrid is 19.10.2009. So it means that Djokovic is real number 3. But we shall give Murray some nice time to enjoy his "no.3". We all know who is better.

zikili , 5/20/09 8:06 AM


Ricky, you enjoy this spicy articles. I wonder is it coincidence that Djokovic is always somehow involved. Not to mention that you usually take the text out of context.

zikili , 5/20/09 8:17 AM


tennislover - Actually, Murray made it to the quarters of Wimbledon. You're right, though. He does have oodles to defend after that during the summer hardcourt season. Murray has a, what, third round showing at Roland Garros?

It sort of does suck that Nole "waited" so long to hit his stride. He should still be No. 3. No. 4 just doesn't feel right after two years.

tennisdeva , 5/20/09 8:23 AM


Is it just me or does this seem more of a fiasco created by the journos?
Whatever happened to responsible journalism......
I do not think Novak anywhere hinted that Murray did not deserve the no 3 ranking.
He IMO just meant that it was cruel to happen during the clay season where he has been the better player.He didn't even say it was Murray's fault.Sheesh...

janhavi , 5/20/09 8:52 AM


Whatever system they come up with, it will never be perfect. Someone will always have something negative to say. A 2 year ranking system may "smooth out" changes in ranking placements but it won't reflect how good or bad a player is performing necessarily at the right time. For example, in 2008, Federer would have still hung on to his no.1 ranking despite only winning the US Open because he won 3 GS in 2007, which over 2007-2008 is one more than Nadal. It was quite clear that by winning Wimbledon, Nadal was outperforming Federer already and quite appropriately the ranking reflected that. Nadal may have complained that a 2 year ranking system sux because he won 2 GS in 2008 but Federer was still no.1, no?

cable , 5/20/09 8:53 AM


my point exactly cable ... i would like the player playing the best to be reflected in the rankings . the 2 year point system would not have reflected the best tennis player at present..( i cant believe im siding nadal here :P hehe )

fedexfan , 5/20/09 9:04 AM


Nadal and Djokovic are coming from two different perspectives here. A defending champion has to play all the rounds the following year to stand still, or he will lose points, everyone else can improve on their points except the defending champion, but if they can hold on to their points for two years, then the pressure from the point of view of fatigue will be less, because they won't have to play every tournament just to stand still.

On the other hand, Djokovic is talking about the rankings being determined over 52 weeks, and not on current performance. The thing is, last year during the clay court season, Djokovic was poised to take over from Nadal by just winning one match, because Nadal was the defending champion, and he would have lost points if he had lost the match, whereas Djokovic would have gained points because he did not do so well the previous year, and on that basis would have become No 2, because he had added a lot of points by winning the AO. Djokovic was quite happy for that to be the case and saw nothing wrong in taking over the No 2 spot from Nadal who had consistently done better that Djokovic for years, simply
because his points in 2008 were greatly enhanced by just winning the AO.

The current system of 52 weeks roll-over is OK, but it is strange that a defending champion has noting at all to gain, but has to defend the title to stand still. I remember when Venus beat Serena at Wimbledon last year, the next day Venus went down to No 7, and Serena I think went up to No 2, simply because Venus was the defending champion, she got no points for defending the title, and because Serena hadn't done so well at Wimbledon the previous year it enhanced her poistion.

Perhaps the answer is that every player who reaches the same round that they did the previous year, would retain 50% of the points brought forwarded.

carrie , 5/20/09 9:04 AM


agree with nole and rafa. the only reason muzza is 3 at the mo is cos he sucked on clay last yr. he has 2 do shit all 2 get 2 three after his good hard court season - in fact, he got to lose 2nd round. does seem a tad rough. its pretty much an advantage 2 do bad at a few tournys so u have points 2 gain the following yr, othawise u have 2 win everything.

kaitepai01 , 5/20/09 9:16 AM


I like Djokovic he has played really well, and is a good guy who doesn't have an attitude should he loose. It is unfair he had to drop when he has really played his heart out!! He's a good lad!!

fofe , 5/20/09 9:54 AM


Federer should be asked his opinion on this matter because he is more experienced, and his honest answer would be appreciated. He would speak for all the players concerned!!

fofe , 5/20/09 10:03 AM


The issue of 'defending champions' was one of Novak's major points commented. It somehow sucks that they have to kill themselves only to keep points earned, but it also shows how difficult it was for Federer during those 4.5 years.
Golf works on 2 years ranking points - and it seems fine. Tiger was out of competition for 8 months, and he is still (rightfully IMO) no. 1. I have not heard any comments that this is not fair or so, however with 52 weeks system this would not be possible.
Furthermore, this year in tennis, for they changed (doubled & modified) ranking system, we should see many situations where someone defending runner-up, SF or QF points reaches the same stage again this year - but still loosing points (e.g. on Grand Slams: 200 for runner-ups, 180 for SF, etc.).

HogarTheHorrible , 5/20/09 10:06 AM


Very true Hogar. Federer held his no1. position despite the rankings system and he didn't complain. It's strange that the players haven't really made a fuss of it before. Murray is acting a tiny bit condescending towards Nole because he is all of a sudden no3. Murray, as fresh as he is at being a top player, has not nearly earned himself the right to air his opinions so arrogantly in the face of players who have a lot more to brag about, whether his opinions are correct or not. Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with the rankings system. It is good for it to be a little volatile, so that the top players will have to work harder to stay where they are, and the younger players get a chance to break through. However, it is not fair that the players gain nothing for eg, reaching the final but not being able to defend titles.

Topspin , 5/20/09 10:32 AM


Hagar is right in that the situation is going to be exaggerated this year because of the change in points awarded plus some changes to the calendar - players currently have the points from two Madrid Masters' events. It will sort itself out and however well a player does in a one year period, he will have to do as well the following year to maintain the points - that makes perfect sense to me. If you won an event last year and this year lose first round, your ranking will probably be affected. Rightly so. It will have its ebbs and flows but I believe that the 52-week system is far more accurate than a two-year system could ever be.

sukhumvit , 5/20/09 10:48 AM


If the points are held for two years then it would be very very hard for players to move up the ranks, it would have taken Nadal a lot lot longer to displace Federer, so for that reason alone, I don't agree with that.

I do think that recognition should be given for defending a title, perhaps a bonus of half the title winner's points.

Djokovic got to No 3 because the way things are done now, and he thought it was fair then.

carrie , 5/20/09 10:59 AM


it is so hard for Nadal to be himself latley,too perfect is the word can describe him so for him to say he wanted the 2 year ranking is so un understandable ,Federer did it for almost 5 years and he didnt ask for that
he has 5000 more points than the 2nd player?what he is afraid of

tennislover , 5/20/09 11:01 AM


I agree that this rankings system doesnt reflect the player who is in form at the moment but I still think it is a good system. Fed was also a victim of this system when roddick was no.1. But I do not think rankings should matter as much if it's between no.3 and no.4 because they will be at the different sides of the draw. If murray is no.2 now and djoker is no.3 then this would have been a more meaningful argument because no.2 will avoid the no.1 and no.3 is possible to meet the no.1. I think Fed has made his opinion clear that no.3 and no.4 has no major significant difference in benefits.

torres9 , 5/20/09 11:35 AM


Murray-obsessed British media have pushed this one to the limits...AGAIN!
They took Novak's comment out of context, twisted them and made another mini scanadal, naturally to presen Novak in bad light....
Novak is no mug and he knows how the rankings work, the guy just cynically wore his heart on the sleeve and bemoaned the fact that now that he's at his peak form, he dropped his ranking...nothing more nothing less, a thought that went through everyone's mind....
The irony was that straight after , Murray got knocked out and Nole owent on a winning streak...Peoetic justice......COME ON NOLE, the peak beckons....Nole to be number to after USO , bookmark this one!

noleisthebest , 5/20/09 1:48 PM


A few people need to get their heads around how the point system works. Yes, it is true that the defending champion will lose points towards his ranking if he doesn't defend his title. But by the same token, they can gain points where they previously didn't do so well in other weeks. Rankings are based on the player's performances in the previous 52 week period. Therefore, movement in the rankings is not based on just a couple of weeks play, it is the cumulative effect of how they perform in 1 year.

Carrie, I don't think bonus points is the way to go. The current system is quite logical and the same number of points should be awarded to the winner, whether he is the defending champion or not.

torres9, what you wrote I agree with 100%. No.3 and 4 do not make a difference in a tournament other than bragging rights.

noleisthebest, no one complaint that he was still No.3 when he gave woeful performances after last year's USO. Murray then was the best performing player during the indoor season.

cable , 5/20/09 3:54 PM


cable, I think defending your title is a great achievement. Everyone who dfeneds their title will get the bonus, not only the likes of Nadal who are serial winners.

carrie , 5/20/09 4:18 PM


zikili - saying that Murray is unfairly ranked due to having two Madrid tournaments counting for his current ranking is completely illogical

Madrid last year and Madrid this year were ENTIRELY different tournaments. Last year it was an indoor hard-court event, this year it was clay.

Madrid this year is what Hamburg was last year. Madrid last year is what Shanghai was this year.

Everyone has three clay-court Masters, the two spring U.S. hard-court Masters, the two U.S. Open Series Masters, and the two fall indoor hard-court Masters on their current point total. Nothing is unfair.

RickyDimon , 5/20/09 5:00 PM


the players are talking for thier own benefit,and to thier eyes it seems to them that the right thing is what benefits them at this stage....I guess it's natural.and yeah Murray is correct he was better in the beginning of the year...Novak's also correct,he has done well on clay.

niloofar , 5/20/09 5:04 PM


You get the maximum points available for defending your title. You dont add points but you protect the ones you have and you get more points for that tournament than the other players so I dont see why they should get bonus. Plus how would it work for say Fed's USO points which he won 5 in row. If you add half the points as bonus his last USO count for over 10k points.

orion , 5/20/09 5:22 PM


Curious ... what happens with Olympic points ... do they stay for 4 years?

smr , 5/20/09 5:49 PM


no smr they dont get to defend those points

orion , 5/20/09 6:01 PM


watch for British media psychological Murray-warfare in the dawn of Wimbledon! What do you think - can Murray win the Wimbledon - the favorite media presser question for all players.

posmatrac , 5/20/09 6:10 PM


orion, the bonus points should come off the following year, like all the other points.

carrie , 5/20/09 6:13 PM


poor nole has learnt the hard way to be diplomatic with the media, and yet he was misquoted! murray is the one being spiteful, whether or not his quotes are taken out of context.

stu , 5/20/09 6:32 PM


seems a little cruel that the Olympic points just drop off, when it is obviously an extra hard thing to fit into an already over crowded schedule and should really count until the points can be defended; after all the player is still the Olympic winner until the next games.

smr , 5/20/09 6:36 PM


smr, it is a little cruel, by why should you get to keep points for 4 years? that wouldn't make any sense unless you're advocating a 4 year ranking system.

carrie, what are you proposing you would get if you defend your title again (meaning that you win it 3 consecutive times)? or if you win 5 times in a row? do you keep tacking on bonus points above and beyond the bonus points that were added in the prior years? for instance, if nadal wins the French, he gets 2000. lets say the bonus point system gives you 500 for defending. so he gets 2500 for defending. then what if he defends again? 3000? because if he only gets 2500 for defending a 2nd consecutive time, then you run into the same issue (which you believe is a problem) of not being able to "gain" any points for defending a title.

incoherent82 , 5/20/09 6:56 PM


It would be even more unfair if the Olympic points stayed on for four years. The ranking system is and has always been one year, not four.

Nadal is not at a disadvantage. The rankings always reflect how you play over the past 365 days. After 365 days, the Olympics--just like any other tournament more than 365 days removed--is irrelevant. Consider Nadal's Olympic win a bonus from August 2008 to August 2009. Consider things back to normal when those points come off.

RickyDimon , 5/20/09 7:01 PM


I dont see how the current system creates any unfairness at all. If someone defends his title yes they dont add points but they protect the ones they have and get more than other players do anyway. For example, if rafa defends his RG title he wont gain new points but he will get 2000 points while other players at most get 1200. So players who defend their title gets rewarded anyway

orion , 5/20/09 7:08 PM


maybe a variation on the 2-year rankings system could be to retain 10% (or 20%) of the prev. years points per tournament, and add on the entire points for the current year. this way "defending" a tournament would still be a bonus, since you would get 2000+200 points. The next year, if you win again, you will get 2000+220 points. This would be a more accurate assessment of players performance, because its a cumulative account of his recent years, but mainly reflects the current year.

stu , 5/20/09 7:12 PM


"Very true Hogar. Federer held his no1. position despite the rankings system and he didn't complain".

Perhaps the reason why Federer never complained is bcos the pressures and challenges that defending champions NOW have to bear to remain standing still are lightyears apart from what Federer had to contend with in his days as number one!!!!......

Rafa is barely one year at number one yet see how many players are already breathing down his neck!!!!......can Federer honestly look ANYONE in the eye and convince them that he had to face THAT kind of pressure tourney after tourney after tourney?!!!!!..........

No need to respond..........the answer is clear!!!!!

Rafa was the first tennis player ever to start challenging Fed in any serious way and to consistently beat him!!!!!......but now EVERYONE wants to challenge Rafa!!!!!.....during the 4 years of Fed's reign as #1, it was relatively a walk in the park! I bet if Fed was in Rafa's shoes then, knowing him, he WOULD have complained!!!!

And not because Federer was never known to complain does it mean that the others shouldn't!!!!!.....they are ALL part of the tennis association and so have every right to!!!.....and perhaps if Gasquet had complained about the 'drug use' rules......maybe.....just maybe......he would not be in the trouble he is in today!!!!

MonaLisa , 5/20/09 7:56 PM


MonaLisa Federer has been the role model for all!!

fofe , 5/20/09 8:09 PM


Not for all fofe, not for all!

MonaLisa: It's useless to try to explain to them. These are same ones that claim that Fed had to fight thru all dangerous players to get to the Madrid final, so that tells you something right there.

fan4tennis , 5/20/09 8:28 PM


MonaLisa...stop bringing fed into this...it's ridiculous!!!!! Say whatever you want but get your facts right honey.....He was No. 1 for ALMOST FIVE YEARS.... 4 Years and 8 months to be precise (so nearer five than four)....furthermore, Fed has won a title EVERY FOUR MONTHS since 2001.....

You simply cannot use 'that old chestnut' that we have better players today than we did when roger started out....it's an incomparable statistic, otherwise you degrade previous players, British, American, whatever nationality...Rod Laver, Arthur Ashe, Moody, Borg, Mcenroe, Connors, etc....Safin was and still is a great player, so was Hewitt, so was and....still very much IS, roddick......we are in a different half-era where there are crossover players who have improved their game...Who cares who wanted to challenge fed at that time, he was ALWAYS challenged, problem is HE WAS JUST TOOOO GOOD...Have you considered that one? No.

How are earth you can say it was just a walk in the park is T-H-E most P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C comment I have E-V-E-R heard. If anything, it V-A-L-I-D-A-T-E-S how C-O-N-S-I-S-T-E-N-T-L-Y brilliant Federer was.

your quote...'I bet if Fed was in Rafa's shoes then, 'knowing him', he WOULD have complained!!!!'......oh so you KNOW HIM do you? And you wonder why fed fans respond to such I-D-I-O-T-I-C comments from such incredibly ignorant posters like you. Ridiculous. Truly. You take the award for the most ill-informed poster tonight.

malteser1 , 5/20/09 8:29 PM


malteser1.........please dont forget to take your blood pressure meds........there's not doubt you need that after that!!!

MonaLisa , 5/20/09 8:44 PM


And one more thing........Federer WILL lose @ RGarros!!!!...........you will see!!!

MonaLisa , 5/20/09 8:48 PM


MonaLisa, can you be a bit bolder in your prediction? Not a tough prediction to say "Fed will lose at the French" -- he could lose to Nadal and you would be right, but nobody would care. Are you saying he won't make it to the finals or that his streak of consecutive semis appearances at a Grand Slam will be broken? Might as well spell it out for fun. No one will remember if you're wrong, and I'm sure you'll remind everyone if you're right!

incoherent82 , 5/20/09 9:00 PM


May I remind you people that this thread was supposed to be about the Djoker and Murray disagreeing about the current ranking system? xD
malteser1, hehe, one can feel your zealousness when you use capitals to stress your ardent points...
I don't know if Fed is the GOAT but he's definitely in the selected group, no question about that but I do agree with MonaLisa when she says that before Nadal nobody had consistently challenged Federer to his limits...

Shireling , 5/20/09 9:27 PM


mona lisa....thanks for the reminder....just taken the blood pressure meds and all is fine....have you had a brain scan recently?

Oh and by the way......thanks for your 'prediction' mystic meg.....somehow tho' I'll prefer to listen to the tennis experts not the amateurs who have a limited imagination, especially where federer is concerned.

ciao

malteser1 , 5/20/09 9:28 PM


incoherent82.......i will go out on a limb here and say that i have no doubt that Fed will make it to the finals.....and thats because like you said, he consistently reaches far afield and whenever it comes to GSlams, a lot of players choke and never exhibit their true from, so you find a number of upsets in slams in particular!!!! Federer is very experienced in that regard.......i remember watching him play at the US Open in 2008 against Andreev and every one thought that he would lose......he was down two sets and I had never seen Andreev play so well!!!......I couldnt believe what I was seeing.......but guess who won the final?....Federer!!! (by the way for those who have never watched Federer play live.....its a must see!!!.....of course, even better when he's playing well!......Rafa was great to watch too!!!!)

But what I will say is that although quite a number of players have improved on clay........Rafa is the best in terms of skill, fitness and mental strength. Rafa has that going for him, coupled with the fact that he plays very well under pressure.......i think he is better than FED in that regard and i also think that Federer will be under MORE pressure to win that Nadal will be, as the expectations on Federer are a lot higher now, together with the pressures of equalling Pete's record at 14, and his age!!!.......this time round is perhaps Roger's last chance!!!........and i dont care what anyone says that has got to weigh heavily on Fed!!!!........and it does not help him knowing that Rafa is the 4-time champ, is the best on clay, and has beaten him consistently on every surface!!!!

However, here's hoping to a great final!!!!!

MonaLisa , 5/20/09 9:29 PM


monalisa, that's a great post. i won't argue with you that rafa is stronger at the moment in terms of fitness and mental strength. skill level is debatable -- Fed has superior versatility and a better serve but Nadal's groundstrokes are more solid.

i think that federer actually has less pressure this year than in previous years. rafa is the undisputed overwhelming favorite, #1 in the world. federer no longer has the pressure of trying to hold 4 grand slams titles at the same time (which he had a chance to do in 2006 and 2007) and has gotten the monkey of not winning a big tournament off his back (in 2008, he had only won Estoril). anyway, i hope for a better final than last year and am definitely hoping for a federer v. nadal rematch so that history can be made regardless of who wins!

incoherent82 , 5/20/09 10:09 PM


To be honest (since Fed fans love people who speak their mind and are honest about how they feel), IF Rafa and Roger do meet in the finals of RG, I want it to be just like last year!

fan4tennis , 5/20/09 10:17 PM


I'm curious about something: Why is Novak so concerned about rankings? If he just wins as much as he can, won't his ranking kind of take care of itself? Why doesn't he just concentrate on keeping up (improving, maybe?) the brilliant form that got him where he is now? Ranking, seeding, draws... none of that really matters if you're determined to beat the man across the net from you, regardless of who that man may be.

I don't know, am I way off on this reasoning?

-Arvis

Arvis , 5/20/09 10:50 PM


Yes, it is likely that Fed will lose if they meet in the final. But Nadal will not have it all easy to get close to Fed's overall tally or even win the Grand Slam. The field is catching on him because it's not hard to compete with Nadal as long as you are young and jsut be determined and physically fit as shown by Murray and Djoker and JMDP. All Murray and Djoker have to do is just keep on improving and they can beat Rafa regularly. As for Roger, I still think he is gonna play for a long period of time and with his skills, he might even retire after Nadal retires.

But of course Nadal fans will keep on predicting that Nadal will win 18 Slams and brush off any challenges from not only Fed but Djokovic and Murray which is good because by the time Nadal goes down, we willl all just laugh hysterically.

torres9 , 5/20/09 11:08 PM


"The field is catching on him because it's not hard to compete with Nadal as long as you are young and jsut be determined and physically fit as shown by Murray and Djoker and JMDP. All Murray and Djoker have to do is just keep on improving and they can beat Rafa regularly. As for Roger, I still think he is gonna play for a long period of time and with his skills, he might even retire after Nadal retires."

Torres9, you made that same point in a previous thread.....and I will repeat......

Please tell me why, Federer with all his skill still loses to Nadal ever so consistently?!!!....or might you be suggesting that Fed is simply not fit enough to keep up with Rafa?!.....and therefore if indeed that is the case.....how do you summise that Rafa might even retire before Fed, when Murray and Novak who you believe can beat Rafa are beating Fed more often than they are beating Rafa, even very recently?!!!

And so what if Rafa does not meet Roger's tally?!!!! Is that what you and all Fed fans are afraid of?!!! For all you know Rafa just wants to win ALL the Grand Slams rather than beat Sampras's record!!!!......I for one would like to see Fed win ALL GSlams but even if he doesn't Fed will still go down as one of the most prolific tennis players in history....so whats your beef?!!!

I will be the first to admit that clearly your post was to evoke some level of aggravation.....and I fell for it hook, line and sinker!!!!.........or you're simply just not making any sense!!!!!


MonaLisa , 5/20/09 11:33 PM


Like every thread on this site, we are back to Fed vs Rafa, again, even tho' the feature is about Djoko and Murray.

There are plenty of posters here whose only objective is to rile up fans of the top 2 players.

Nam1 , 5/21/09 12:18 AM


Djokovic will make so better results than Murray both in RG and Wimbledon and will regain hos No3, maybe he will be No2..Murray will not make it to the SFs of RG and Wim..I bet!!! I would like Fed to take Wim, RG will be interesting, but I predict Nadal(although I don't like him..)

Marko , 5/21/09 12:28 AM


I dislike the idea of a two-year ranking system, and the one that is in place. There is something unfair about both ideas, someone will always have to deal with the issues. Rafa plays so wonderful that I should hope he won't have to "worry" just like Federer. I mean this to say, his brilliance should reflect like Federer's did during his near 5 year reign. I mean really, Federer has sucked since what? The AO 2008 in comparison to what he will always be known for, the fact of the matter is that he still held the spot till August even with this ranking system, so fatigue really shouldn't be an issue for Nadal. Burn out should be his worry.

Recordbreaks , 5/21/09 1:28 AM


Giving bonus points like the one carrie proposes would hurt the player more when they can't defend their title on their 3rd attempt.

I like to think of the ranking system as a bit like a high jump contest. You need to earn a certain level of points to maintain your ranking much like having jumping a certain (average) height to maintain your position amongst your peers. If the last jump was not particularly good, as long as your made higher jumps and averaged higher then you can still come out on top.

Nadal brought out this issue because he has a huge chunk of points to defend during the clay season. He has less to defend during the indoor season and if he does well there he would relieve himself of the burden to defend so much points during the clay.

cable , 5/21/09 6:53 AM


Arvis - for your consideration: this is from MO official site, Wednesday interview with Djokovic (titled "Ranking just a number to Djokovic"):
********************************************************* *
Novak Djokovic says he's more determined than ever to reach the top of the men's game despite dropping a place in the rankings this week.
Djokovic, who saw the No.3 spot he's held since July 2007 taken by Andy Murray on Monday, said he tries to focus on his performance rather than worrying about the rankings.
"To be realistic, playing three Masters Series finals in a row and winning an ATP 250 event is incredible success," said the world No.4. "I think that I have played fantastic tennis and have had huge success on both hard courts and clay courts so I will be very patient and I am sure that if I continue this way I will get my spot back."
"It really motivates me even more to get back to the third spot or even go a step further."
But the Serbian, who won last week's inaugural Serbia Open, said that he felt the current "cruel" ranking system made it very difficult for the top players to maintain or improve their standing in the game.
"You try to present your best, try to perform your best tennis as possible to get far in the event and then obviously you will gain points in certain periods of the year but because of the ranking system a lot of players are dropping in that pressure zone because you have to defend the points each year."
"It's not really the best system possible because if you defend titles each year you basically don't gain anything. (Roger) Federer has been winning or (Rafael) Nadal has been winning four or five Grand Slams in a row and they haven't won a single point. I think this is an issue we have to talk about," said the Serb.
Ranking system aside, Djokovic acknowledged that Murray had earned his career-high ranking fair and square. "Andy absolutely deserves that place because he's been winning a lot of matches lately and playing good tennis," said the 21-year-old, pointing out that there is still a long way to go until the season-ending rankings are decided for 2009.
***********************************************************
If Murray had a chance to hear the whole thing - I sincerely doubt that he would give such a harsh reaction. "Luckily" we have media to spice things up for us, and have the World spin to their tune.

HogarTheHorrible , 5/21/09 7:17 AM


Arvis,

Ricky instrumented you to think negatively about Novak. Now you can appreciate the power of media. Now you can understand that depleted uranium can be logical end of carefuly orchestrated media campaign.

posmatrac , 5/21/09 7:24 AM


incoherent82...thanks for your post....but honey you made a H-U-G-E mistake here so have just quoted the short extract for you to R-E-F-R-E-S-H your memory.....

(in 2008, he had only won Estoril). anyway, i hope for a better final than last year and am definitely hoping for a federer v. nadal rematch so that history can be made regardless of who wins!

Federer also won the U-S-O-P-E-N...you know...that lil' ...'ol tourny.....and as a bonus the D-O-U-B-L-E..........-O-L-M-P-I-C-S.....G-O-L-D-......M-E-D-A-L....you know the one that you get for winning the three legged egg 'n spoon race?....

just thought you'd want to know....:-)

malteser1 , 5/21/09 7:25 AM


Malteser. THe DOUBLE GOLD MEDAL, counts for nil, as nadal and federer are competing for Singles GREATNESS, not doubles. That way, Mcenroe and Roy Emerson would be by far the greatest players of all time.

Anyway, Sometimes I just wish Nadal played like Fed, instead of the raw power and will. I mean, had fed been in nadal's position at this years madrid masters, it would have made no difference whether he had played a 4 hour match in semi or a 1 hour.

But with nadal, its always the case. One tough match and he is gone. Dont know how he pulled AO off (some help from federer too though).

But, a two year ranking system would confuse everybody. I suggest, lessening the number of tournaments and specially tournaments of Hard courts. Clay and specially grass court season should be prolonged. Grass is a bit more difficult as the courts are very expensive to maintain but clay is a very very feasible possibility.

And to ppl who would say that this is just playing into Rafa's hands, i say make the clay courts like in madrid and at hamburg. Fast fast clay courts, where players,regularly push nadal even on clay. Not like Rome and Monte carlo, where its just 2 in 2 for rafa.

ronaldinho , 5/21/09 7:58 AM


MonaLisa:
what do u mean Fed didn't have to go through challenges?? he finally lost his no.1 ranking,and Rafa did not suddenly jump to it,he got close and caught it!! and Roger was the 1st one to state that Rafa 'totally deserved the spot'...(he said it during the olympics instead of complaining,and I'm not saying this to put any other player down but even if u hate s.o. u should accept that they have thier own nice characteristics)

fan4tennis:
yes,u have all the right to speak your mind,but it's strange why u don't change your nickname to fan4Rafa instead of tennis when u like to watch a boring final like last year's.

how did this discussion turn to be the ususal war really!?!?!?

niloofar , 5/21/09 12:40 PM


Thanks for the info, Hogar, it was enlightening. Here's hoping The Djoker keeps up what he's been doing lately. He's a brilliant kid.

-Arvis

Arvis , 5/21/09 5:05 PM


"fan4tennis:
yes,u have all the right to speak your mind,but it's strange why u don't change your nickname to fan4Rafa instead of tennis when u like to watch a boring final like last year's.

how did this discussion turn to be the ususal war really!?!?!?" niloofar , 5/21/09 12:40 PM

Because of comments like yours niloofar. I am a fan a tennis AND of Rafa and I don't need to change my name because YOU don't like it. Fed's tennis is boring to me and I enjoy watching Rafa and others play. Rafa gives us enough exciting tennis throughout the year so I can deal with watching a "boring" (according to you--lol) final like last year!

fan4tennis , 5/21/09 5:37 PM


niloofar actually does make a good point, fan4tennis. Which match would you say was better for the sport of tennis: French Open 2008 finals, or Wimbledon 2008 finals? Would another Rafa straight-set blowout increase interest in tennis as a sport, or would a thrilling 5-setter with a surprise finish be better?

So, basically what niloofar was asking was: "Are you REALLY a fan for tennis? Do you want what is best for the sport?"

-Arvis

Arvis , 5/21/09 6:52 PM


Just a question. Were you bored of tennis during the period 2004-2007?

danny , 5/21/09 7:07 PM


To be honest during the match everybody wants their man to win easily and as quickly as possible. Obviously if you know what the outcome will be you can relax. So after a long close match, if your player wins, you appreciate the agony you endured during the match, then of course, you think it's good for tennis.

carrie , 5/21/09 7:10 PM


Danny, I was in college from 2002 through 2006 and didn't follow any sport. I didn't get into tennis until Wimbledon 2008.

Either way, I'm not saying it;s wrong to want Rafa to win easily. If he's your favorite, that's what you SHOULD want! :)
I was merely clarifying the point I believed niloofar was making. That's all.

-Arvis

Arvis , 5/21/09 7:30 PM


fan4tennis:
didn't u take my comment too seriously?! I kind of said it like a joke,but the problem here is that u don't hear the other person's tone of voice when u r reading comments and everyone here seem to have got used to fights,I don't like to fight with anyone and I don't like to make it personal,it was a joke. and of course it was a boring final,and not because Roger lost,but because it was one sided. besided last year final was an EMBARRASSING one for Roger so I was a bit hurt that u like to see sth like that instead of good tennis,...and this is not the way I like it,fans shouldn't be against other players..maybe my interpretation was wrong but anyway I did not mean that to be taken seriously...I'm sorry if u took it that way.

and honestly u think the discussion got here because of ppl like me??? if u have read my previous posts u probably know I don't like to get involved in fights.

tnx Arvis.

niloofar , 5/21/09 7:48 PM


" Rafa gives us enough exciting tennis throughout the year so I can deal with watching a "boring" (according to you--lol) final like last year!"

Rafa is involved in most of what people consider "epic matches" so I see plenty of great tennis Arvis. So wanting ONE to be like last year is not that greedy.

Niloofar: You considered that final boring. Many did not share your view. You may have considered it embarrassing for Roger (is that what made it bad tennis for you?), but it also showcased Rafa's clay court talent, hard work and the skills he showed, I'm sure people (pro or not) watched and learned something from it, so yes, that means it is good for tennis if people learn from it! Also I didn't say fights were because of people like you.....I said it was because of COMMENTS like yours.

fan4tennis , 5/21/09 8:09 PM




ronaldhino....just to clarify olympics got 250 points....NOT zero..

malteser1 , 5/21/09 8:13 PM


fan4tennis:
no,I did not consider that boring because Roger was embarrassed, a match is boring when the score is 6-3,6-1-6-0... well 'my comments' mean me,and I'm very sorry for that because I always try to keep my tone respectful to everyone,but anyway now I'm accused of starting fights!! and in 1 case that u interpreted that I was startnig a fight I 'apologized' and said it was a 'joke',but u don't seem to have an interest in taking it as a joke,so go on,I don't know what to say but I'm very disappointed. I don't know why I got so annoyed,it's nothing important,but it's annoying to be interpreted as exactly opposite of what u r trying to do.

niloofar , 5/21/09 8:21 PM


fan4tennis,

A good argument for your standpoint might go like this:

"Yes, French Open 2008 was a blowout, and may not have had people on the edge of their seats wondering what would happen. But, the showcasing of Nadal's dominance was a large cog in the machine that would become the Wimbledon 2008 finals and the resurgence in popularity for tennis. Because of the embarrassing way in which Federer lost the French, it added just that much more drama to the other matches these two played. Even more was on the line, and the sense of drama heightened."

However, fan4tennis, while you may have a legitimate point of view, niloofar's is legitimate as well. Personally, I think we can never have too many dramatic finals matches, but at the same time, I don't believe there can ever be a "bad" match between Federer and Nadal. No matter how it turns out, it's always entertaining.

-Arvis

Arvis , 5/21/09 8:24 PM


malteser, sorry. i was just talking about Federer's status prior to entering the French Open in previous years. In '06 and '07, he had a chance of holding all 4 grand slam titles at once (thereby having a lot of pressure on him going into the finals -- on top of the fact that Nadal is a superior clay courter) and in '08, he had only won Estoril prior to entering the French Open and had even lost to Nadal multiple times on clay in the prior month leading up to the French. In both cases, the pressure from media and the fans was over-the-top -- either really high expectations in '06 and '07 or wondering what happened to Federer in '08 (although for some reason there were also high expectations on him in '08 too).
The hype from the media and fans this year is nothing compared to the hype and expectations of prior years. I think he'll be able to cope with the pressure much better this year and he has a lot of confidence coming off of the Madrid win. To be honest, I don't think that Federer will be beaten as badly as last year. I really wonder though what will be running through Federer's mind if he somehow finds himself in a winning position against Nadal. I wonder if he'd be able to "seal the deal" so to speak.
As for Nole, I predict that if he does play against Nadal again in the semis, the first set is crucial. It'll be a close first set, but if he loses that set, he'll get steamrolled because of various psychological factors -- it's hard to be playing your best tennis and yet lose to the same guy 3 times in such a short span of time without it taking a psychological toll.

incoherent82 , 5/21/09 8:32 PM


Arvis: with your explanation I understand fan4tennis's opinion better,yes maybe in that way it was not a bad match,I had not looked at it that way...by the way we're discussing a totally irrelevant topic on this thread! :D

niloofar , 5/21/09 8:39 PM


Thank you Arvis. Great (and better) explanation than I gave. If it was like that ALL the time (the scoreline), yes, that would be boring, but we all know that doesn't seem to be the case.

niloofar: I was trying to point out that it was your comment that was irritating, NOT YOU! That's why I said "Also I didn't say fights were because of people like you.....I said it was because of COMMENTS like yours." It is one thing to not like a comment, but it is another to attack a person. You didn't attack me. I just did not like your comment. Do you understand what I am saying or do I need Arvis again for a translation--lol?

fan4tennis , 5/21/09 9:04 PM


I'm glad you noticed it niloofar.:-)
The topic is about Nole and Andy, yet we talked endlessly about Rafa and Fed.
Did we scare Nole's and Andy's fans away?

danny , 5/21/09 9:07 PM


Ricky, well done. You know how to start the fire and than vanish. People here from time to time want and like to discuss tennis, but you enjoy this malicious articles. I do not see you have responded to any thread except mine. I am well aware that Madrid last year was not on the clay. I know that Madrid replaced Hamburg. But be reminded that this week Hamburg point dropped off, so I pointed out how many points Novak and Murray would have if calendar was not moved.

zikili , 5/21/09 9:08 PM


Presuming someone will be interested - here is current (as of 18-May-2009) situation at 2009 ATP Race:
1) Nadal Rafael ...................... 6705
2) Djokovic Novak ................... 3540
3) Federer Roger .................... 3460
4) Murray Andy ....................... 3170
5) Roddick Andy ...................... 2180
6) Verdasco Fernando .............. 1860
7) Del Potro Juan Martin ............ 1835
... etc.

HogarTheHorrible , 5/21/09 9:19 PM


"Did we scare Nole's and Andy's fans away?" Andy's fan's are in hibernation until the clay court season ends. =D

-Arvis

P.S. That was a JOKE...

Arvis , 5/21/09 9:31 PM


no, we're not in hibernation- far from it, we're on a white knuckle ride. Besides, whatever we say Roger and Rafa fans just hijack the argument .....

deuce , 5/21/09 10:01 PM


Who will win the 2009 French Open? The results of the Poll above......

Roger Federer........58.9%

Rafel Nadal.............34.3%

Novak Djokovic..........5.5%

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MonaLisa , 5/21/09 10:25 PM


ROFL deuce spot on

orion , 5/21/09 10:36 PM


Hibernation? Not quite - one eye under the sheets, the other eye half scared to look!

Roll on Queens

alex , 5/22/09 1:33 AM


MonaLisa at 10.25 pm
That was my reaction exactly when I saw the poll results !!
I mean WTH? Where have these people been the last few months?
Does Federer pay people to come on this site and vote? God knows he can afford it.

Nam1 , 5/22/09 2:00 AM


Just click on "Poll Archive" right below the results and look at how "correct" most of the polls have been--lol.

fan4tennis , 5/22/09 2:24 AM


fan4tennis, thx, that was enlightening!
Looking at the results of the polls and the results of the actual matches, I have come to the conclusion that this is a Federer fan site. it should be called Fedtalk and not Tennistalk.



I rest my case !!

Nam1 , 5/22/09 2:34 AM


I just think Rafa fans aren't clamoring to vote constantly on polls. Rafa has let his racket do his talking for him. No poll takes that away from him.

fan4tennis , 5/22/09 2:45 AM


the vote doesn't mean voters actually think Roger wins,everyone's voted for who they like to win not who they think will win.(I did not vote!!) so don't think Fed fans are stupid,maybe as u said this is fed fans site, but it more looks like Fed haters site to me!
again we're out of the topic...

niloofar , 5/22/09 2:54 AM


I think the draw tomorrow will be great! Once they finally start playing, we will see how much drive and motivation Nole has to regain his ranking and Murray to retain his!

fan4tennis , 5/22/09 2:55 AM


fan4tennis: eeee...,call Arvis for translation!lol.

niloofar , 5/22/09 2:58 AM


does anyone know how far Andy got in last year's FO?

niloofar , 5/22/09 3:03 AM


Agree with Niloofar that fans vote who they want to win instead of who they think is going to win. The high % vote for fed shows that far more Fedfans are visiting this site compared to others though most prefer not to post. Imagine what will happen when most of them start posting....... Rafafans will be overwhelmed

eqm , 5/22/09 5:03 AM


niloofar: Murray lost in the 3rd round to Almagro in 4 sets. Found it on his website. It was a first for me to visit it and I am impressed! Is a very user-friendly site and offers alot of info.

fan4tennis , 5/22/09 5:14 AM


Was surfing the internet some more and found this quote from Tony Trabert, 5 time GS winner (among other wins) and Hall Of Fame President. Found it kind of appropriate since alot of talk is about the fact Nole only has one slam and Andy has none.

"I mean these are people, not statistics and if you just measure them based on titles you're potentially missing some of their greatest contributions, in my mind."

fan4tennis , 5/22/09 7:26 AM


Sorry....forgot to say that Tony Trabert made that statement before Wimby 2008 and was not specifically about Nole or Andy. Personally though, I think it applies.

fan4tennis , 5/22/09 7:31 AM


HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEAREST NOVAK, I WISH YOU MANY HAPPY RETURNS OF THE DAY, GOD BLESSED YOU...

gordana , 5/22/09 9:31 AM


...for your 22 bithday, my brave boy, I wish you Fed's half of draw...so you can come to Rafa in finale well rested, after easy walk.
SRETAN RODJENDAN NOLE = HAPPY BIRTHDAY NOLE

zare , 5/22/09 10:11 AM


Happy Birthday Nole. I wish you all the best apart from the RG title!!!!!

So Rafa, Nole and Andy are all 22 as of today, and Rafa already has 6 GS!!!!!!!

Just kidding, before anyone jumps on me, I know Rafa will be 23 in two weeks.

carrie , 5/22/09 10:28 AM


Nevermind Carrie...
He is 22 and he's got 6 GS. If you are looking for Pete's record...here is your man...how many more GS till he reachs Fed's age???
ps.
Who is Andy...?

zare , 5/22/09 10:33 AM


So Nole is again with Rafa...just saw it on RG site...

zare , 5/22/09 10:46 AM


SORRY...that is desinformation...for now

zare , 5/22/09 11:43 AM


Whew! As a Rafa fan AND a Nole admirer, I wish that he would meet Rafa in the finals of RG 2009!

Happy birthday Nole!!!

danny , 5/22/09 11:50 AM


fan4tennis: tnx for the info!!! this means he does not have much points to defend.

niloofar , 5/22/09 12:30 PM


Zare, Nole will meet (eventually) Nadal in final only, so draw is pretty good, cheers...

gordana , 5/22/09 12:52 PM


Nole and Roger will probably face up in semis , does anyone have a h2h for them on clay?

Nam1 , 5/22/09 1:28 PM


This is the draw I hoped for cos whoever wins the Fed v. Novak semi, I'm being a bit presumptious here I know, will have truly earned a pop at Rafa.

deuce , 5/22/09 1:59 PM


Nam1, Nole adn Roger have met only once on clay (before the Rome09 semis which Nole won), at Hamburg in 2008. Roger won in 3 hard fought sets. Nole also retired one year in Monte Carlo, and he has either been in Rafa's draw or lost early in all the other tournaments since 06.

stu , 5/22/09 2:06 PM


sorry, i meant Hamburg 06!

stu , 5/22/09 2:09 PM


Happy birthday Novak. We love you very much
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDoK8wmCp-Y&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww %2Enovakdjokovic%2Ers%2Fnews%2Ephp%3Fakcija%3Dvise%26id%3D192%26jezik% 3D1&feature=player_embedded

zikili , 5/22/09 3:11 PM


"I wish you Fed's half of draw...so you can come to Rafa in finale well rested, after easy walk."

And the award for Most Deluded Fan goes to... zare!!

Seriously, I don't know where some of you are coming from. Are there people on this website who really truly BELIEVE that it's "an easy walk" to beat ANY of The Big Four?

-Arvis

Arvis , 5/22/09 4:18 PM


I wonder if Roger would rather have Novak than Andy

carrie , 5/22/09 4:18 PM


Good question, carrie. I don't see Murray as a threat on clay, but I wouldn't mind being proven wrong on that account.

Anyone here still believe they stack the draws against Nadal? They may as well just give him a walkover into the semifinal with the draw they gave him...

-Arvis

Arvis , 5/22/09 4:26 PM


carrie: agree with arvis, don't think Andy would trouble Fed on clay this year, he's still on a learning curve, next year probably, hopefully. I know I'll upset Fed fans, but...I think Novak would've beaten Fed if he'd got to Madrid final. Fed was spraying so many forehand errors and N. is really finding his form.

deuce , 5/22/09 4:32 PM


"Seriously, I don't know where some of you are coming from..."
Seriously do you know to read??? Or you don't bother yorself...and jumping all over every post!
IT IS HIS BIRTHDAY...and I WISH...what part you don't understand. I can wish that you learn to read...but that doesn't mean you are going to...
If you know something about tennis...you would know what means "easy" on GS...no matches 5 sets and 5-6hours...no injuries...raising form thru the matches... ect.
BTW...don't you think it will be easier than with Rafa...
About awards...man...no comments.

zare , 5/22/09 5:02 PM


Ok zare, I'll try and have a conversation with you about this.

What did you wish, exactly, for your god friend Novak Djokovic? "Fed's half of the draw." This is what you wished, correct?
Now, why did you wish that? "so you can come to Rafa in finale well rested, after easy walk." This implies (heavily) that Novak would have an easy walk into the finals against Rafa if he were to go against Roger Federer in the semis.

Are you telling me that this is not, in fact, what you were stating in your post? If you were saying something a little more reasonable, I'd love to hear it.

-Arvis

Arvis , 5/22/09 5:24 PM


yes...you happy now?

zare , 5/22/09 5:32 PM


I wish that Nole would have easy 3-set matches so he can face Rafa in the finals rested and ready to put up a fight. :-)

danny , 5/22/09 6:03 PM


Fed would have wished Nole in Rafa's half, he knows now that his path to the RG trophy is very very very tough.

posmatrac , 5/22/09 6:09 PM


Zare: No, I'm not. If I'm wrong (which is easily possible) then I still don't know what you were saying...

Posmatrac: Very true, Federer got a MUCH tougher draw this time around than Rafa. Novak is practically Federer and Nadal's equal when it comes to sheer skill and talent.

-Arvis

Arvis , 5/22/09 6:19 PM


Arvis,

Exactly which draw are you talking about?.......RGarros?!!!!!........U CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MonaLisa , 5/22/09 8:42 PM


Arvis, go read Ricky's detailed analysis of the draw in his Part 3 blog.

fan4tennis , 5/22/09 8:57 PM


thx, Stu for the h2h!

Nam1 , 5/22/09 9:05 PM


It's better for Fed to meet a tough opponent before he meets Rafa otherwise he gets shocked of Rafa's level IF he makes it into the final and IF Rafa makes it into the final.

torres9 , 5/23/09 4:17 PM


federer has more experience in terms of reaching slam finals than ANYONE out there...he got the experience and the talent......he showed his mettle at AO this year when he was 2 sets down to Berdyche...He could easily have given up...but he clawed his way back to reach A-N-O-T-H-E-R final...That is NOT knocking Novak....WHAT a match against rafa in Madrid......But....that was a masters series...this is a SLAM....Novak has not proved himself to cope as well......perhaps if he gets his fitness up to optimum at RG then he gives himself a chance....but Roger, I feel has the experience and the fitness to beat Novak in a slam....no question.

Novak still to defend a slam.....I dunno....tho' he playing great clay court tennis....he kinda loses it mid way through with his breathing and his temperament.

malteser1 , 5/23/09 6:01 PM


when does proving start, now, in a year, 5 or 10 perhaps?

posmatrac , 5/23/09 6:37 PM


Mateser1 babeee! Good morning to ya (my time) suppatime your time. I read thru posts and some online tennis news. So Rafa is just starting to sound cocky now, a bit of boasting going on. Never noticed him doing that before and not that he doesn't have reason but I kinda believe that this will be the RG that he losses at least a set to overconfidence. Didn't know he has not lost a set at RG yet. Well, after reading and looking at the draw, I venture to say Gonzo, Verdasco, or a surprise gets a set off him! Heheheheeee

Still believe he will defend his title but .....

C'mon ROOOOOOOOOOGGGGGGGGGER!!!!!

zoey234 , 5/23/09 6:57 PM


posmatrac........................he 'proves' it honey when he is able to reach the end of a match without withdrawing..(slam).....and before you say that I am having a go at Novak...I'm not.....I have seen a lot of his matches in slams posmatrac...and you gotta admit, in a slam, his breathing somehow isn't the same...I know he suffers from asthma and I wonder whether the exhertion gets to him at optimum level...I dunno...I wasn't being sarcastic at all...you'll find a lot of my posts praising Novak's progress..especially in madrid.....what do you think? do you not think he has a problem at all? would be interested to know......

Zoey......G-R-E-A-T you are back....T-R-U-L-Y........what sorta news ya bin reading about our rafa?.....I think it gonna be a great draw for everyone with some shockers coming from Monaco.....go read about him....you'll find him on youtube at the madrid masters when he was ousted by verdasco...monaco a younger 'up 'n' coming player......see what you think.

I feel sick with excitement about Tuesday....the top four having a bye on monday.....are you off work zoey to watch the match or will you be dipping in and out of it during the day? I have the next two weeks off......just blissful.......

Come onnnnnnnn................T-H-E.........F-A-B-U-L-O-US................. ...................

F-E-D-E-R-E-R..................

zoey...what' s your take on Novak? bearing in mind what posmatrac has just posted and my reply? Am I being unfair?

malteser1 , 5/23/09 7:17 PM


Oh no my mistake again. I meant to say Rafa has not lost a match not set at RG. And I think it is his time to go down! Yes, after reading through the hype I believe the time has come. Tho I love Rafa, somebody else will steal the trophy and must admit Nole has been playing some great tennis while I was away in the jungle. Final could easily be Nole v Nadal and Nole astonishingly prevails. It will be a test for Nole and hopefully the weather is on his side! Heeeee heeeeeeeeehe

zoey234 , 5/23/09 7:21 PM


well..........still believe in the fed...zoey.......always will.........

GO......ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGERRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

malteser1 , 5/23/09 7:32 PM


Oh Malteser1 I been cruising the internet news and that site simply called Mail Online had a tennis headline which caught my attention: "Clay King Nadal warns Murray: I'm playing almost perfect tennis."

I know these superstar jocks talk smack and trash, but I am eternally naive when it comes to Rafa and Roger, believing them to have a near sainted not tainted characters. Adorable icons in every way, right.

All it takes is a lapse is Rafa's usual attentiveness and a reasonably confident Nole on a roll could muscle and maneuver past the champion. Or perhaps is the semi or whenever it is he'll match up with Gonzo, lets say. Nadal has been playing as he says, "almost perfect tennis" but we know the level he has to perform match after match. And it may be that it won't be a lapse or extra uncharacteristic unforced error that fells him as much as an opponent who knows him well and outplays him and takes a strategic advantage. So who could do that my Malteser1?

I can think of a couple two or three. And if not at RG, certainly the competition gets lots more dangerous on grass at Wimby.


zoey234 , 5/23/09 7:43 PM


I agree with you Malteser about needing to see how Nole's fitness holds up during a 5 setter in the uh, DARE I say it again, h-e-e-e-a-a--t-t. Yes, particularly the sweltering heat known to the US Open. Nole is already champion, he is smart, he has amazining physical talent. But I question his physical health, the ability to hold up in adverse conditions. And I like his skier legs of course :D

I looked up Monaco , your beast, on the ATP site. He's been around awhile hasn't he. I simply have not noticed him. I am impressed but I need to see him play. I keep losing my wifi connection but I going to youtube shortly.

Well, French Open is always a challenge to catch the live coverage. The matches are ungodly early but I am going to do my best Malt, and balance it all. I don't want to leave you here and I hope you'll be around in case I start off the edge into you know where!!

It's a perfectly gorgeous day in the Rockies and I'm going out in an hour or so for a hike.

zoey234 , 5/23/09 8:06 PM


zoey...where do you live? Oh my god...the rockies......just W-O-W!

well Monaco...me thinks may even topple Novak...I don't know why I think that....not wishing Novak bad luck at all but monaco is just zipping here and zipping there, brimming with confidence....he just impressed me.....with Novak and the heat....honey...did you mean OZ 2009? He withdrew when Roddick was beating him...and so didn't continue with the game.....anyways...am sure he will give it his best shot too.....

Now roger.....well.......the guy is on a roll but I would say he is being very conservative right now....he fancies his chances because he feels that he has gained in confidence tho' he very honest and straight when he says that rafa is just 'out of this world'....but I really think he has a shot...I don't care that ricky only gives fed 2% chance...I think that is just plain silly.......it's the early rounds that I wanna see roger get through and sort out his game....i feel sure that it will come together provided he maintains the focus and the concentration that he had in madrid....He is a great five setter player...he had shed loads of experience and he hungry zoey....our man is hungry...he wants his dinner!!!!! the final!!!!!

you know, it's almost as if he gotta get to the QF's before he starts playing his best game of tennis......and then once he there, he just rocks into the semis and dances and glides into the final......ah...life is sweet to think such thoughts....we shall see if fed is gonna rock in the final.....

FED ROCKS BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GOOOOOO ROOOOGGGGEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!

malteser1 , 5/23/09 8:22 PM


malteser1! I have tried a few times now to send a post is reply to you but I keep losing the wifi connection. And that's the trouble of living where I do. The wifi traffic is heavy on Saturdays and Sundays during the day. Tonight or later I will reply. Sorry. Good News is that during early morning RG coverage I won't have any trouble.

Go Feddy Babee!!!!!!!!!!!!!

zoey234 , 5/23/09 9:48 PM


Ok I have 10 minutes and hope this goes!

Have you heard of Sun Valley Idaho? I'm here.

I see what you mean about Monaco. He is a firecracker hot blooded alright! Yes I could get on that wagon....oh no, here comes the colloquialisms.

Gilles Simon plunking out Pink Panther on you tube is just priceless. Watched it 300 times and I love that sensitive talented Gheels tennis.....I still have hopes for him to turnaround a losing streak.

Nole did not retire a match at last summer US open but he definitely suffered breathing problems and yes I was thinking of AO 09 too.

So it goes, I always search for the dancer in tennis players. I love Federer's moves, his lines, his style Malteser captured my imagination and he is unforgettable......lalalala and I best hit the send button!

Have a great evening where you are!

zoey234 , 5/23/09 10:04 PM


hey zoey...this gonna be my last post tonight...but am just watching the madrid match again....just whetting my appetite for fed........

not long now...been on to the RG website and they have a digital clock ticking down the minutes to the match.....

Yep....know what you mean....Federer is the barishnikov of the tennis world...a true champion...did you know that Arthur Ashe....(a quote given in madrid masters which I saved)....said that 'champions are people who want to leave the sport better off than when they arrived...'

commentator was talking about bout rog n' raf just as they were warming up......a real nice quote I thought.

Fed has got the S-P-I-R-I-T....the V-A-R-I-E-T-Y and the E-N-E-R-G-Y to go a long way into the competition.....now zoey...look out for Universon and ronaldhino...not been saying nice things about fed but am not listening to them.....Fed has his own agenda and his target is to win.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go....Feeeeddddddddeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrree eeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!

malteser1 , 5/23/09 10:58 PM



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