The "new weak era" has begun (as far as Nadal is concerned).

Let's see how it plays out. I enjoyed the tennis with Nadal at Indian Wells, but a few of his matches were very, very close... With a bit of luck and hard work, a few of the other players can still give him a good run for the money! LOL

Don't be ridiculous nirv. Why do you think the tennis EXPERTS talk all the time about THE BIG FOUR. The only one who probably doesn't deserve to be there right now is Djokovic as he has been unable to defend his only slam. The rest are there by merit and no doubt Djokovic will find his mojo again, once he has sorted things out with his racket and his coach.

It's amazing how fickle people can be - one excellent performance at the tennis equivalent of crazy golf and all of a sudden rafa is out on a league of his own.

That's taking nothing away from the fact that rafa showed far greater composure and adaptability than murray yesterday, but I amazed that some people are suddenly erasing the fact that since last summer murray has a 2-1 h2h against him (not to mention his exo victory for a $200K winner-takes-all pot in January).

Sure, rafa is world #1 on merit, but if they meet in miami on a faster hard court and without the assault course weather conditions, don't bet against murray!

alex, how can u contradict the man who was at the other end of the court to Rafa. Murray knows what he is talking about, you are clueless!

If this had been said about Federer, people would be queuing up to endorse it.

Rafa is the man of the moment, just accept it.

Ok some of the players are capable of beating Rafa once in a while, but it is doing it consistently that matters, like Rafa beats Roger for fun.

livingdoll--- I like that.... Rafa beats Roger for FUN!!!!!!!!

UNTIL NOW, these FED FANS can't accept that HE NO LONGER is the man to beat! Murray saved his face from ANOTHER humiliation from RAFA!
Fed won't let another loss from his nemesis (one of them at least) to be written all over his face before the FO!

He's just doing what he needs to do if he wants to stay at the top. Other players are gonna be trying to improve to knock out the top guy so if Rafa want's to stay there, he knows he can't get complacent. But he's also very determined. It's not enough for him to just defend his titles, he wants more (this is what he told Moya years ago when Moya asked the young Nadal if he wanted a career like Moya's). Rafa being a hard worker is just doing his 'job'. He wants to get better on all surfaces. There's nothing wrong with that. The next person to get to the top spot will have to do the same.

torres and otehrs..did u get that???now kindly believe in a pros statement..if u dont believe in mine...luk how he admires rafa's variety and skills!!!

vamosrafa--- don't waste your time... you can't make them believe anything BUT what they want!

Vamosrafa ...par torres to yahan nahin hai.And i think except malester1 & Sky there no r no Fed fans & others r Rafa lovers !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes but even the most ardent fans know Rafa wont win the FO forever. Being a fan of a star is like having a pet , more of than not you outlive the pet and u have to witness it die with sadness , something most Federer fans are feeling witnessing his decline . So fans enjoy while it lasts.

agf25agf, I was so hoping Rafa in the final just so that he would notch a 14-6 record against him.

niro2, we are!!!!!!!

agf25agf, got my text wrong......I was hoping Rafa would meet Roger in the final so that he would notch up a 14-6 record against him.

Let's just see what happens in Miami. Different conditions, and some guys are hungry to upset the apple cart. Who won Miami last year? Oh yeah, that's right - Davydenko playing with the same racket all the way thru, right?

three out of the last four ... "once in a while " ... :)

tomnjerry..han kuch log yahan nai hain mgr wo itne dhit hain k koi iteha nai..nadal is the best and the scary thing is ..as I always say..he is far from his peak!!!be afraid others b afraid!!!
agf25agf ....dont worry..out rafa is doing superbly well to seal the mouths of many who cannot utter anything other than crap (not always but sumtimes).....rafael is doing ur job and always speaking on behalf of his fans..so caring is he ..lol

it all started with hamburg..RG..queens..wimby....toronto..olympic gold..world no.1...aus open ..5 wins on the trot over the swiss ace roger...and now his 2nd IW title after saving 5 mtch pnts and tearing apart murray..whats next???!! bring it on!!

livingdoll -

that last one was for you, of coure.

and since you raise the example of h2h's with fed, I think you'll find there's another certain young guy with a higher beating-fed-ratio than rafa :) (6-2 compared to 13-6)

I'm not suggesting that rafa isn't a great champ, a deserving world no. 1 (with perhaps a better chance of beating sampras' record than fed) and an overall superior player to murray, all I'm saying is that no one can possibly change their overall opinion on the basis of how well they respond to a storm in the desert.

After Tipsarevic played Nadal on clay in the Davis Cup he declared that he and all the other players think Nadal is in a class of his own on clay, even djokovic echoed that. Now Murray who has beaten Roger 6 out of a possible 8 times and in their last four meetings says Nadal is too hot to handle on hard court, we only need Roger to soon declare that Nadal is too hot to handle on grass

Rafa now almost has as many points as Federer and Davydenko put together.

if you want to play in the big league you have to be prepared to handle big circumstances! nadal is being tested by great/tough players all the time, miami will be no different. there are some players who would relish the opportunity to prove a point to rafa, but he's battle-tested! i'm sure he knows he can't win them all!

alex, why do you keep talking as if IW was the only tournament Rafa has won against a top player?

"It's amazing how fickle people can be - one excellent performance at the tennis equivalent of crazy golf and all of a sudden rafa is out on a league of his own. "

"all I'm saying is that no one can possibly change their overall opinion on the basis of how well they respond to a storm in the desert."

Most people's opinions are NOT based just on yesterday's final, but on what Rafa has achieved since he turned pro.
And as far as your statement:
"certain young guy with a higher beating-fed-ratio than rafa :) (6-2 compared to 13-6)"

Since you know that math, tell me how many of those wins by Rafa over Fed were in GS and how many were GS in your other example?

fan4tennis -

as far as current the rafa-muzz rivalry is concerned and with respect to the miami encounter to which my comments above referred, I do not judge rafa on the basis of one tournament. And in that same context you should not be judging him since he turned pro.

My judgement is on the basis of the current hard court season. Rafa has done brilliantly to win the two biggest h/c tournaments of the year so far, but equally it should not be forgotten that for this h/c season the h2h is still 2-1 in favour of muzz (EX-cluding the high profile exo in January). Yes, I see rafa as the favourite, but not overwhelmingly so, and I would not be schocked to see muzz beat rafa in miami.

That's all I'm saying, so don't get so hot under the collar!

Some people are clutching at straws to put Rafa down. Pack it in!!! The facts speak for themselves. If Murray thinks Rafa is much better than him, how can anyone know better than Murray. Anyway the ratio of wins over Roger is irrelevant as he is on the wane, he is not the top player anymore. Nowadays, it's no big deal to beat Federer.

You guys can say what you want, Fact is, Murray has zero Slams and Nadal is halfway through. I am sure Nadal has improved but not so much that he is untouchable. He is full of confidence now.He already lost 2 matches this year. Am sure he will lose more expecially towards the end of the season when his main rival, Mr. Knees will show his face.

amen to that!......It's nice that the "villains" are not around!
Rafa's win shut them up!

agf and livingdoll you should get together, you talk such sychophantic claptrap......We fed fans accept that Roger is not playing the way he did but that he is still motivated, determined and hungry to win. We have no doubt in our minds that he will still give the top guys a great run for their money...Oops....I almost forget then, he is WORLD NUMBER TWO! So just watch and learn.....because reading your threads, you are just vomiting layers of crap. I accept that Nadal is number 1, I have no problem with that. I can appreciate his expertise and brilliance on the court...the problem that you have is that you cannot appreciate the excellence or the brilliance from a rival player. You are the one gushing out all the superlatives and yet dis the genius player of all time. You will choke on your own words very soon. No class.

Well, after Oz and now this, there's no doubt in my mind that Rafa could seriously end up being the GOAT at the end of his career. The only thing I see stopping that is his knees. Can he sustain this level of tennis year in and year out?

I know Federer saves his best tennis for the Slams, but he makes us fans worry so much! Can't wait until the French Open. I'm really hoping for an INTERESTING final.

-Arvis

Arvis....I hear on the grapevine that Fed has a 'coach in waiting'. Not sure how true this is, but perhaps Ricky could find out? This being the case, that would be great news. I truly believe that behind the scenes, there cannot be any smoke without fire....am sure he is putting into place a game plan. That would shut up the fed haters. God...they are becoming massively tiresome. The argument again of GOAT all depends on how you want to gauge it. Can Nadal remain No. 1 for almost 5 years? Doubtful. Can he win more grand slams than Federer? Probably. Does that mean that Roger cannot be seen as the GOAT? absolutely not. Yeah....we fed fans do worry but I guess we have to trust in the judgment of the Fed. He has been around long enough to know his game and what he needs to do. I think that his aim was to get as deep into the masters as he could and semi finals ain't all that bad! This will prove to him what he needs to do in order to prepare for the FO. He was up against some pretty hot players in the masters series - especially verdasco. But Murray is hot to touch right now. So that again is something that Fed needs to meet head on and deal with. I love all that is going on in tennis right now......At least Fed is playing better this year than he was last year.....still needs to improve though. Am sure he is aware of that and will do something about it.

FED needs you! You're wasting your knowledge here... he has to hear your brilliant ideas! Don't leave torres behind, you'll be the greatest triumvirate ever!

alex: "My judgement is on the basis of the current hard court season. Rafa has done brilliantly to win the two biggest h/c tournaments of the year so far, but equally it should not be forgotten that for this h/c season the h2h is still 2-1 in favour of muzz (EX-cluding the high profile exo in January). "


I believe the HTH for hc is 1-1 for the current season.

Fed fans please study the table below and tell me whose name is not on the list:

Here are the players who won their 10th ATP World Tour title before their 22nd birthday:

Player Titles Before Age 22 Career-high ATP Ranking
Bjorn Borg 34 No. 1
Jimmy Connors 28 No. 1
Rafael Nadal 26 No. 1
John McEnroe 25 No. 1
Boris Becker 24 No. 1
Mats Wilander 21 No. 1
Pete Sampras 18 No. 1
Lleyton Hewitt 17 No. 1
Ivan Lendl 17 No. 1
Stefan Edberg 15 No. 1
Andy Roddick 15 No. 1
Michael Chang 15 No. 2
Andre Agassi 14 No. 1
Novak Djokovic 11 No. 3
Marat Safin 10 No. 1
Andy Murray 10 No. 4

Uh, I don't see Rod Laver. Oh hmm, looking, looking..I don't see a French Champion, what was his name? Your is is incomplete as to baby bloomers!

Grand Slam count
Bjorn Borg 34 No. 1 -11
Jimmy Connors 28 No. 1 -8
Rafael Nadal 26 No. 1 -6 and counting
John McEnroe 25 No. 1 -7
Boris Becker 24 No. 1 -6
Mats Wilander 21 No. 1 -7
Pete Sampras 18 No. 1 -14
Lleyton Hewitt 17 No. 1 -2
Ivan Lendl 17 No. 1 -8
Stefan Edberg 15 No. 1 -6
Andy Roddick 15 No. 1 -1
Michael Chang 15 No. 2 -1
Andre Agassi 14 No. 1 -8
Novak Djokovic 11 No. 3 -1 and counting
Marat Safin 10 No. 1 -2
Andy Murray 10 No. 4 -0 and counting

So many early birds didn't catch the worm so I don't see why this statistic is so important.

Its the open era record so rod laver and other guys before that dont count. The statistic was used to show that every guy who got 10 titles at the age 22 went to win a slam (so its for murray basically) and most of them reached no.1. How it reflects on nadal-fed rivalry is beyond me, except showing nadal became very successful at a very young age but fed didnt.

fan4tennis -

Beg your pardon, for 'season' I should have said 'stretch', to include the latter part of 2008, i.e. the USO, since which time the hard court circuit has been uninterrupted by clay or grass for the top players.

Arvis -

I agree about the GOAT thing. I've said since last summer, although most have disagreed with me, that I reckon rafa has a better chance of beating sampras' record than fed. I still hold to that if - and it's a big IF - his knees can hold up. But I don't think he'll dominate like fed did, as the competition wasn't as strong at the top, and his greatest strength is on clay rather than hard court.

As far as rivalries go this is one of the best. I love seeing Roger being the Fed. And I love seeing Rafa nadal-ing his forehand as Nadal.

I hate when either of them loses. I cried at the award ceremony for the Australian Open as Nadal held the winner's trophy high. I wept with Roger's tears...

I loved when Rafa embraced Roger on the stage and consoled him.

We are all winners when these two are in the game... If this doesn't make them the GOAT, then together they are GOOT - the Greatest Of Our Time.

And I thank them for all they endure for me to able to see their excellence in my lifetime on the same stage...

Ahem....Ahem........

How many players have been 237 weeks at number 1?.........

Sampras
Federer

see anyone missing on the list living doll?

Funspiritman......great thread. Both Great players. (Roge and Raf) We can accept that you see, problem is the fed haters cannot accept Fed's pure magical tennis and what he has provided us in terms of watching him play over the years. He will ALWAYS be the best tennis player EVER no matter how many people put him down. Tennis is so exciting right now.....

good point malteser, but we shouldn't blame some Nadal fans here. Long have Nadal been second to Fed. 4 and half years they couldn't speak anything except gloating on Nadal's wins on Fed, so now is their time. They are like caged animal just waiting to pounce whenever they are free.

Let them have their fun. We know everything will not last forever.

What do you mean, so many early birds didn't catch the worm? Only Michael Chang did not get to No1, and Nadal, Djokovic and Murray are still playing, so no one knows what they will achieve. One thing is certain though, Federer will never achieve 10 ATP World titles by the age of 22. That's the significance, also shows that Federer does not qualify for the GOAT, if he does not qualify in all categories.

If you want to split hairs, do some more research and see how many of them won GS on all surfaces.

Living doll......you haven't answered the thread about how many OTHER PLAYERS have been No. 1 for so long? Can't you admit it? Do you want me to tell you again? Okay....FEDERER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FEDERER!!!!!!!!!!!!! FEDERER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU need to do YOUR research and stop slagging everyone else off for not doing theres! Kettle pot black comes to mind. And for YOUR information, YOU should read what the REAL TENNIS EXPERTS say about Federer, not some twisted, warped sychophantic blogger like you. All saying that FEDERER is the GOAT. You just can't accept it......Talk about splitting hairs? Ha! Take a taste of your own poison.

EVERYTHING WILL NOT LAST FOREVER!>>>>>>>>>>>>>EXACTLY!
SO ACCEPT IT>>> FEDERER's REIGN is DONE!

livingdoll--- I'll give a very difficult question. How many players who have held the #1 position lost a grand slam final and cried like a baby ,whose candy has been snatched, in front of a full capacity crowd and hide for sometime 'till the tears ran dry? You need to do a thorough research on this!
Caution: this is just between me and livingdoll!

Fed only won 1 GS last year and three minor titles that Nadal, Djokovic and Murrar were not involved in.

All the experts said Federer would win Wimbledon 08 and AO 09, they were wrong!!
Why should anyone take any notice of what they have to say.

2008 YEAR-END ATP BY THE NUMBERS
(as of November 17, 2008)

Singles Title Leaders: ----- By Surface -----
Player Total Clay Grass Hard Carpet
Nadal, Rafael 8 4 2 2
Murray, Andy 5 5
del Potro, Juan Martin 4 2 2
Djokovic, Novak 4 1 3
Federer, Roger 4 1 1 2
Davydenko, Nikolay 3 2 1
Roddick, Andy 3 3
Simon, Gilles 3 2 1
Almagro, Nicolas 2 2
Ferrer, David 2 1 1
Gonzalez, Fernando 2 2
Llodra, Michael 2 2
Nalbandian, David 2 1 1
Tsonga, Jo-Wilfried 2 2
Tursunov, Dmitry 2 2
Berdych, Tomas 1 1
Cilic, Marin 1 1
Darcis, Steve 1 1
Granollers, Marcel 1 1
Hanescu, Victor 1 1
Karlovic, Ivo 1 1
Kohlschreiber, Philipp 1 1
Kunitsyn, Igor 1 1
Montanes, Albert 1 1
Nishikori, Kei 1 1
Petzschner, Philipp 1 1
Querrey, Sam 1 1

THE real EXPERTS are here......... Just read the old posts, THEY have all the solutions, techniques, tactics, and game plans for FED to win OVER Rafa.....but NOBODY have ever mentioned Roger to take a look at this forum. Anyone from the AVID/ die hard FANs who CARE so much for their idol please tell him to have a glimpe, and his life will never be the same again. He might even get a coach from here!

There are still people here who will wax lyrical about the EXPERTS who make proclamations in favour of Fed because that's what they WANT to believe. You can't stop them. To them the experts know best because they were past greats. The fact that they have been proven wrong doesn't matter because they had hailed Fed as the greatest who would win far more slams than Sampras. It's if they start saying Nadal is likely to overtake Fed than beware their wrath!!! It's than when the experts don't know what they're talking about. Nevermind that that was obvious early on!!!

agf25agf, thanks for updating the statistics, how could I miss that.

Anyway, as Federer has won 14 GS titles, perhaps he has enough Cups he needs some Trays. At the rate he is going, he is not going to have enough Trays for all his Cups.

livingdoll,

As of date, Rafa is 22+, how many weeks now he occupied the top spot?

Can you provide the data of how many weeks Roger in the same spot where he turned as old as of Rafa now?

Don't u think guys its getting too much of criticism for Fed ???? Specially from agf25agf & livingdull !!!!!! Oh no na not at all ,in fact u guys are enjoying this moment ,keep enjoy till he(Fed) hitz back to ur ugly faces !!!!!!!! Are not bored of posting same thing again n again ???? Oh no na not at all , ur doctor has given prescription to criticize Fed multiple times with stupid comments making his mockery per day for quite a few time otherwise u will get sick !!!!! take the full advantage of it as its ur turn & yes u deserve to enjoy the moment to the fullest !!!!!!!!!!!!

We will wait patiently for our turn to come & i mean i believe , i mean i m sure, it will come too !!!!!!!! Love U Roger !!!!!!!

for me the goat is pete sampras 14 grand slam, when feder pass that i gonna say federer is the goat....the federer lovers are saying he is the goat form he got his 10th grand slam is titing ear saying this when are more people that can be the goat like sampras , laver, borg etc etc

tomnjerry---- straighten your sentences first before you talk to us...........GO BACK TO SCHOOL!

yes i will definitely go to school !!!! thanks 4 the advice !!!!!!!!

Nadal should try serving with his natural right hand as well so he will have the option to use either, then with two forehands as Federer says he already has, he will be unbeatable. That will be awesome!

livingdoll and agf25, have you guys read this article:

Nadal, Federer Australian Open Postscript
http://www.tennis-x.com/xblog/2009-02-05/834.php

I'm not usually a fan of tennis-x or this writer but interesting points raised.

rod laver said it perfectly and completely agree, there is no, "greatest of all time." a player can only be declared the "greatest" of his era. there are other factors to consider. one fact is that laver won his slams on grass and clay only. in fact, his australian, wimbledon, and us championships were won on grass and his french on clay. so, the difference in now and then is clear. given the advancements in today's game, physcality of its' players, level of competitiveness, different surfaces, etc. it is obvious just how tough it would be to repeat laver's feat. however, i do agree that laver is the greatest of his era, but to say that he or any other player is the greatest of all time is, to me, illogical! i firmly believed that in determining who is the greatest, a player should only be compared to players of his era. i fail to see how it can be legitimately done any other way!

Oh guys (and memi), here's another one you might like:

Murray exposes Fed's fading skills:
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Murray+exposes+fading+skil ls/1422161/story.html

For four and a half years up to 2008, Federer was the greatest player, since 2008 to date, Nadal has been the greatest player. No comparison from one era to another makes any sence. The competition changes all the time.

Federer has achieved a lot even though I am not mad about his tennis, my gripe with him is not wanting anyone else to do well. Of course he needs to want to win if he is still playing, there is nothing wrong with that, but not to admit that other people have talents is so wrong.

Livingdoll, that was definitely one of your best posts, but what is all this about Federer not admitting "that other people have talents?" Where are you getting this from?

-Arvis

Ricky: I think this post is slightly misconstrued. Murray just acknowledged who the better player was at that day. And the improvements that he talked about was something that Rafa's done over an extended period of time. Starting from the clay season in 2008 to IW 2009. It's not like Murray was saying " Gosh! I am scared.Rafa's improved so much recently, that he will beat the crap out of me".
Surely, nothing much has changed between Rafa's game from Doha and Rotterdam(when Murray beat him both times) to his game in Indiana Wells last week. So Murray has no reason to think that it is any different playing Rafa than it was earlier in the year.

All in all, I feel that we will see more of Rafa vs Murray from now on. Murray would have the edge on faster surfaces, and Rafa on clay, and grass. Hopefully Rafa can continue to improve to be able hold the challenge of a rapidly evolving Murray.

livingdoll -

"Nadal should try serving with his natural right hand as well so he will have the option to use either, then with two forehands as Federer says he already has, he will be unbeatable. That will be awesome!"

Yeah, and if that doesn't work, he can bend over and blow his opponents away with thunderbolts out his arse! Mel Gibson, eat your heart out :)

remi---thankx!

laughing out loud, Alex!

Rafa does have two forehands! As absurd as it sounds, I think Rafa could get a wicked serve right-handed. Second serve Nadal, with a strategically aimed firebolt from where the sun don't shine.

Rolling on the floor Alex!!! I like that. Here's a good article that i thought all Rafa fans might appreciate. Good luck in Miami Rafa:)
http://tennisworld.typepad.com/thewrap/index.html

Yeah, I remember reading rafa was a natural right hander. Shows what hard work can do.

dyingdoll and agf are really dumb people. I dunno what to say. GOAT means greatest doesnt mean Perfect. Only players that rivals Fed in this discussion is Sampras and Maybe Laver and Borg. Let me give my opinion. Fed is definitely not the GOAT. Sampras is if u look at Grand Slam count. Laver and Borg if you look at the circumstances they were in. Even Fed admitted that. But for me, I am satisfied that Fed is one of the GOAT. The beauty of his play is definitely the greatest of all time.

Dyingdoll, in your list Murray and Rodiick and Hewitt are also there. Why do we have to look into it too much when they havent get even close to Fed's 13. The only current player who have showed he can match Fed in this is Nadal and he has all the capability to get all the Slams but everything is possible until you have truly done it.

You're rushing TORRES, your statements are conflicting and your tongue is twisting!
Your grammar used to be OK... you're so nervous you can't compose yourself!
Take a deep breath and start thinking so you won't sound FUNNY and STUPID!

STICK with your idol all the way....... you're now confused who's the GOAT. Coming from you- "Fed is definitely not the GOAT.">>> " ...I am satisfied that Fed is one of the GOAT."
YOU NEED TO REST... YOU'RE definitely NOT WELL!

There is nothing conflicting in those two particular sentences. Maybe youre the one who is confused

Say what ORION?
Are you the same person or your brains are intertwined?

torres..i just want to ask one thing...a few days back u and sum other ppl were continually posting rubbish comments that nadal's game is built on sheer speed and athleticism ONLY.....but u were proved awfully wrong after this title match.becoz there ws hardly any running involved in this match...conditions were so tough and u needed SHEER TALENT to adapt urself quickly..u needed craftiness to employ the better tactics and u needed skills to shorten the points,pplay agressive tennis and anticipate the movement of the ball plusu u needed good feel at the net(which nadal also showed)....so this mtch shows how wrong u were...so admit instead of posting anothr ediotic comment..we all make mistakes so there is no harm in admitting and realizing!!

"Fed is definitely not the GOAT.">>> " ...I am satisfied that Fed is one of the GOAT."

What he says is fed is ONE of the greatest but not THE greatest. I hope you understood but I dont count on it.

ORION---GOAT= GREATEST OF ALL TIME.... NOT GREATEST OF THEIR ERA=GOTE... NOT GREATEST IN (terms of) GRAND SLAM=GIGS...

Because of your DESPERATION to tag Federer with the GOAT title, you'll do everything to JUSTIFY your efforts whatever it takes... to the point of name dropping some of the GREATEST personalities OF TENNIS.

Agf, apparently you don;t read much tennis articles. People measure GOAT by Slams. Sorry you dont see it that way. But I'll have to say that tennis experts' opinion carry more weight than you. Dont see where I am contradicting myself, I guess you are the one who is not composed. Posting so many comments show how desperate you are to make a statement which ended up with you repeating the same thing over and over again.

Vamosrafa, I already said a lot of times that Nadal has improved but it is still based on speed. I;m sorry you can't see it like me. Without speed, he will not be able to do all those shots. And his slice is not better than most players on tour. It is just average. Maybe it's better than before there is no denying it. He is talented but not in the shotmaking department I am sorry.

OK, then... PEOPLE MEASURE GOAT BY SLAMS!
SAMPRAS GOT THE MOST>>> SO HE"S THE G O A T!... end of discussion!
NO SECOND PRIZE goes to FEDERER kind of stuff.
SO WHY DO YOU FED FANS ALWAYS PUT FED's NAME when you mention the GOAT when , ACCORDING TO YOU, it's measured by slams.
WHY CAN"T YOU HAND IT TO SAMPRAS.... after all he's the record holder!

ROGER IS TALENTED IN THE SHOT MAKING DEPT. THAT'S WHY HE'S BEEN FREQUENTLY LOSING TO NADAL WHO'S GAME IS BASED ON SPEED!.....
. OH TORRES.... EVEN IF YOU TWIST AND TURN YOUR REASONING WE'LL STILL END UP WITH RAFA BEING THE BETTER PLAYER!

It's not like Fed never beat Rafa, it's just that Rafa have beaten him more times. So Fed is capable of beating Nadal.So I wouldn't say Nadal is the better player just because he beat Fed a lot of times. Are you discounting that Fed has more Slams than Nadal? If you do, then you are shallow.

It's not only Fed fans who mention Fed when it is the discussion of the GOAT, a lot tennis experts do. Even Sampras himself talks about Fed being in the league as him and also Nadal. So if Sampras, a 14-Slam winner himself consider Fed in the GOAT category, why should I listen to a frog like agf.

Like I said, do more reading. Mingling with your opinion only from your perceptive only is why you are thinking limitedly.

torres9, do you always assume that everything you hear or read is true or do you ever think that maybe the person who is saying has his own reason for doing so! don't forget, former players have their favorites too!

Former players have actually played the game and is in a better position to make judgements than any of us. There is a reason why John McEnroe's opinion has more weight than John Doe. It's up to you but my reasoning is based on the articles I read and also from watching the matches and hearing the commentary.

funspiritman , your 6:35AM was quite the lovely post.

Sampras said it so because he was anticipating that Federer will win French anytime but sadly until now, he doesn't. GS has 4 legs and to be able to get the GOAT title, you must have them all...otherwise it looks clearly UNBALANCED...do you agree?

I mean the 4 legs regardless of the surface will always be the PRIMARY gauge everytime the GOAT talk pops up.

As a Nadal fan, I rate Federer much higher than Rafa for that simple reason. Rafa has to win first USOpen and few more slams before standing in the frontline along with the diehard fans of him to claim that he is better than Federer...and Nadal probably the GOAT. He has the great chance to prove it.

torres..ur reasoning cannot be based on commentry and articles.Whenever rafa steps up on court all comentators nowdays talk abt his reprtoire of shots,increased variety and his skills so u seem to watch his matches with the volume muted.I am sorry but its only u who seem to be so blind in this matter here...so seem to deny all articles,commentators,analysts,journalists etc.It ws quite obvious that speed had nothing to do with victory that day it ws all craftiness so he proved u wrong rightaawy not u r simply stubborn to accept that fact.His forehand is one of the best on all surafces and is backhand is xtremely lethal as well.And common sense if u have any shud make u realize by now that u cant win 6 slams,olympic gold,world no.1 for 32 weeks only on the basis of one quality..he has indeed multiple quialities...its just taht u need time to eradicate ur stubornness!!! thats the summary mate

Vamosrafa, I do not feel obliged to convince you anything since you always take it to the extreme. I am sure you are more stubborn than me because I already said 200 times in this forum that Nadal has improved his variety but is ust average compared to great shotmakers. Doesn;t mean he can't win using speed and power and counterpunching. And I am not even discussing with you but you keep on wanting to say the same thing to me. I will just ignore your comments after this if you have nothing new to add.

raindrops: I agree with you but greatest means who is the best player not most perfect. No one can be No.1 in all categories. Andre Agassi won all tournaments. Is he better than Pete Sampras? Not many will say he is. Bjorn Borg retired so early. His career was even more promising than Nadal's career right now but he retired. Rod Laver won 2 Calendar Grand Slams and then went 5 years without tournaments. So there will never be a GOAT which is perfect. I believe Fed's tennis is the most beautiful ever. Even Fed himself admitted he is not GOAT so why should I?

When u r wining back to back titles everything is getting better but when u dont then it is a different show all together. three years ago whenfederer was wining all the masters and grand slam comin his way , we never thought there was any scope of his improvement but we have been proven wrong over and over , and i see no exception in nadals case....every king falls one day....

jibi: ....every king falls one day....

I prefer to see it as not every king FALLS, some fade away with more grace and professionalism than others. It's only when you put yourself high up on a throne than you hurt and weaken in your fall. No one will stay on top forever, no one, but some deal with it better than others IMO.

Versatile Rafael Nadal is talented enough to pull rare Slam sweep

Rafael Nadal, of Spain, celebrates winning the men's final against Andy Murray at the BNP Paribas Open tennis tournament in Indian Wells, Calif., Sunday, March 22, 2009. Nadal won 6-1, 6-2.

Rafael Nadal, of Spain, celebrates winning the men's final against Andy Murray at the BNP Paribas Open tennis tournament in Indian Wells, Calif., Sunday, March 22, 2009. Nadal won 6-1, 6-2.


BY MICHELLE KAUFMAN
mkaufman@MiamiHerald.com

The question is no longer whether Rafael Nadal deserved to unseat Roger Federer from the tennis throne. That is hardly debatable after the counterpunching, scrappy Spaniard beat the stylish Swiss five times in a row, including in the finals of the most recent Australian Open, Wimbledon and French Open.

The debate now is whether Nadal, 22, will become the first man in 40 years to conquer a Grand Slam -- victories at the Australian Open, French Open, Wimbledon and U.S. Open in the same calendar year.

The men's quadruple crown has been achieved only three times. Don Budge did it in 1938, and Rod Laver was the last (1962 and 1969). Back then, there were only two playing surfaces -- clay and grass. Now, there are three, with the Australian and U.S. Opens on hard courts.

Others have come close. Jimmy Connors, Mats Wilander and Roger Federer won three of the four in the same year. In fact, Federer has done it three times -- in 2004, 2006, and 2007 -- but the French Open title eluded him. He fell to Nadal in the final two of those years.

FEAT OF CLAY

Nadal will be the overwhelming favorite at the 2009 French Open, where he will go for his fifth title in a row. And he will be the co-favorite at Wimbledon, where he tries to defend his title after last year's epic match against Federer. The U.S. Open is expected to be his toughest challenge, as it is the fastest surface and the ball skids more, which isn't ideal for his game.

But the kid who grew up on the dirt courts of Mallorca is getting more and more comfortable on the hard stuff. He enters this week's Sony Ericsson Open in Key Biscayne on the heels of a lopsided 6-1, 6-2 win over No. 4 Andy Murray in the finals in Indian Wells, Calif. Murray, by the way, had just crushed Federer in the semifinals.

A victory in Key Biscayne would further solidify Nadal as the world's dominant hard-court player.

''He's got a great chance at the Slam, considering he's already won three, and his rate of improvement on hard court is phenomenal,'' TV commentator Patrick McEnroe said. ``It's hard to think of anyone who has gone from a clay-courter to a great all-around player like Rafa has. Ivan Lendl is in that category, but he didn't win Wimbledon. Bjorn Borg could never do it at the Australian or U.S. Opens. Rafa is certainly capable of getting it done.''

Federer agrees.

''With the great record Rafa has at the French, and he comes in with incredible confidence for the grass, he definitely has a shot to do it this year,'' the former No. 1 said. ``There are many guys who want to prevent that from happening, and I'm one of them. It's definitely going to be interesting to see how well he can do. I don't think the clay has been my problem. My problem has been Rafa on clay. That's a big difference. I grew up on clay and played well on clay a lot, if you look at my record the last few years. If he hadn't been there, we would be talking differently today.''

The one thing that might stand between Nadal and a Grand Slam is his health. He throws his body into every one of those punishing groundstrokes, and that can take its toll -- especially on hard courts. For that reason, Nadal is probably going to play fewer tournaments this summer, take time off after Wimbledon, and save himself for the U.S. Open.

''Rafa is still only 22, but he's older and more mature now, and he realizes he doesn't have to be out there week in and week out,'' McEnroe said. ``He's at a point in his career where he should be peaking for the big four. If he does that, he has a great chance of winning them all. He's already [proved] he can master all the surfaces.''

Butch Buchholz, chairman of the Sony Ericsson Open, also would put his money on Nadal.

''People talk about how strong and quick he is, but what impresses me most is how deceptive he is,'' Buchholz said. ``You don't see the power and spin in his shots. He fools people all the time. Whether he is putting topspin on the ball, or hitting it hard, his prep is the same, and that is very hard to defend. Roger has figured that out. It will be interesting to see if Roger can adjust because he cannot play him the same way anymore. It doesn't work. If he does, Nadal will win.''

MODEST GOALS

About the only person downplaying Nadal's chances of the calendar-year Slam is Nadal.

Nadal is as modest as tennis champions come. This is a guy who chose to stay in the athletes village at the Beijing Olympics last summer rather than enjoy privacy and luxury at a five-star hotel. So, it is hardly surprising that his reaction to all this talk about a Grand Slam is to shrug it off as a far-off dream.

Asked last week about his chances of winning the four titles, Nadal smiled, held his two index fingers a few inches apart and replied: ``My chances is really small. For that reason, I don't think of that. The U.S. Open is a big goal right now. I would love to have that, the fourth. But I know how tough is everything, and I'm happy with my results. What Rod Laver did was amazing. But at the same time was a little bit easier in that moment than right now, because in that moment I think they only have two different surfaces. Now we have three. It is very difficult. Almost impossible.''

torres9

"raindrops: I agree with you but greatest means who is the best player not most perfect. "

From your own words, LAVER swept the Calendar Slams...the hardest feat that no one except him did it not only once but twice. If that feat of Laver not perfect for you then Federer become a mediocre. That thought, Federer didn't even come close to the GOATNESS of Laver.

About number of slams won, Laver is 12, Federer is 13 and Sampras 14 ... from your own words again .... LAVER was prevented to play in the grandslams for 5 years ... just imagine if he was playing all those years IN HIS PRIME (take note of that ... HIS PRIME) ... that number of Samprass may be a poor second.

Why don't you just say ... Federer has the most beautiful tennis and I will agree with you million times.

COME ON SAY IT !!!

ohhh I missed it...yeah you did say it...so I agree with you, indeed his tennis is the most beautiful ever and no one may come close with the artistry of his strokes and the fluidness of his movement.

Raindrop--- your another member of the HYPOCRITE SOCIETY. How dare you say you're a Nadal fan! You really have to name drop Rafa's name so you'll be clouded with the principle of being FAIR! Que mal!
If you think you can get away with that, you're making a fool of yourself just like those who're praising Rafa, but read between the lines and you'll see some evil intentions!
NiCE TRY.... but not quite!

Haha, agf is improving every post he makes. He is improving in the dumbness department. Raindrops and a lot of Nadal fans here show good example of a Nadal fan. They follow their idol by being humble. You are different, agf. You are a disgrace. I think you are the Hypocrite.

Raindrops, I do believe that Laver is the GOAT but still it's hard to compare. No one will ever be the GOAT unless someone win 25 SLams. Yes, Fed's play is the greatest ever for me maybe because I never watched Laver play with a wooden racket.

HOW DARE YOU AGF to call me a member of HYPOCRITE SOCIETY. I am a GREEDY Nadal fan so to speak that I wanted him to win every tournament he would enter to play. You have no idea how I cursed Nadal when he lost the final in Rotterdam HUH!

Is it hard for you accept that Roger is much successful than Rafa at THIS POINT IN TIME? Come on, Roger got 13 slams while Rafa got only 6. Both of them have yet to achieve the CAREER SLAM, so based on that facts what do you think Rafa has an edge over Roger except the H2H?

The whole world know and agreed that Roger plays a beautiful tennis so does that hurt for a Nadal fan like me to agree with them?

Are those the reasons why you lumped me to the HYPOCRITE SOCIETY.

You owe me a big apology.

I'm so SORRY Raindrop!
If what you just said is "YOU".I'm so mistaken!

AGF,

You can even check my posts in some of the topics here to prove who the real ME.

Apology accepted and nice to meet fellow RAFAELITES around here.

It was a mistake and I accept that.
Thanx!

torres..its quite natural that when u dont have anything to say u will try to ignore any further comments..."nadal wins 90% of his matches on the basis of athleticism and speed"..on of the most idiotic statements u are ever going to read on tennistalk!!! enough said....i think more than 90% of the posters including the journalists will completely disagree wid ut statement!!!! atleast 25 times i have written points of which u have never been able to given a solid answer..u simply deviate from the current topic..a clever approach but it shows how vulnerable u are.dont take vulnerable a degrading word here tho...

raindrops...laver won 11 slams..not 12

thanks for the correction vamosrafa but that does not deminish his achievement of 2 Calendar Slams coupled with that 5 year span of prevention for the professionals to participate in grandslam event that time. You could imagine how many he may have been racked up during that period.

Get your tight grip ease a bit with torres9...he is debilitating, he needs air :-)

He's having a hard time accepting the decline of Roger...give him enough time...say until the US Open is over.

livingdoll: Thanks very much for the article. Please keep posting these articles about Rafa - they're very good indeed!

raindrops...lol....may b u r write!!! considering laver..yes what he did ws just absurd!winning 4 slams in one year twice...wow!! and one of the celenader grand slam ws won at age 29 i think!!!amazing really...but i think its just not fair to compare players of such diffrent eras...roger is amazing...so ws pete and so ws laver

livingdoll..thnx for posting that lovely article.it goes o n to show that wise ppl have so much respect for rafa's talent.

vamosrafa,

fair or not fair, the thing is, they put something on the tablet to discuss so you have given no option but to dip yourself into the mud and get filthy too just like everybody else here otherwise you are not a tennis fan :-)

Livingdoll

Yes please do continue your postings about Rafa Livingdoll i love to read them. As i am not sure what other sites i can read more about Rafa and his game. Where do you go to read this articles by the way.

topdog....google!!! write nadal and go to news !!!u'll find plenty