It's really difficult when you have a reputation of a quitter. Even when you are really hurt, you are always faced with the dilemma whether to throw in the towel or not. Remember his match against Tsonga in the quarters of 2010 AO? It is specially difficult in the final where you are obviously going to hand over a huge disappointment to the crowd. Tough, but I think Nole has to take the consequence for he surrendered a little bit to much in the past, even in the matches in which he could finish. This time around it was wise from him.

Yep, that'll be it, nole had a bad shoulder so murray won!

Commiserations, though, to nole and fans - your guy's a real champ and he'll be back on game again soon.

But seeing as how we muzz fans haven't had much opportunity to gloat recently, I'm sure nole's fans won't grudge me the following indulgence ...

Tennistalk couldn't bring themselves to include himin their pre-tourney poll.
The tournament hosts kept hiom off centre court as long as they possibly could.
His serve was off all week (and as much a liability most of the time as noe's was today.
And yet he still lifts a masters series title without dropping a set.
I think I prefer the muzz who gets written off to the one folks expect great things from :)
So, TT, for Flushing Meadows I want to see Nole, Rafa, Fed and Delpo back in your homepage poll again ;)

well done andy, congrats, totally deserved!

Andy was simply extremely lucky at Cincy: take a look who were his opponents and it's obvious that it'll not happen ever again. And yes, I understand his fans - they rarely have opportunity to celebrate and I forgive them for their ecstasy even if their idol wins against injured opponent.

After watching Nole the past 2 weeks, I don't think he's gonna win USO. He had over a month off after Wimbledon and he looked tired against Fish from last Sunday. It just got worse this week and he's also picked up the dead arm which may not resolve fully by next week. Even though he played 10 matches over 2 weeks, he ended up playing 19 sets due to the retirements.

Over the 2 weeks in FM, he'll have to win a minimum of 21 sets (unless he gets retirements or walkovers). Granted the first few matches will probably be easier than early masters rounds. Also, if there is no rain on the final weekend, playing semifinal and final on back to back days will be brutal. All of the matches he's played this year has caught up with him it seems. His results going forward could go downhill quickly as likely he will try to play DC as well. I may very well be wrong of course but the chinks in the armor look real this time. The door seems ajar if not wide open for the other top guys.

Ok... Feel free to gloat... Congrats to Andy...:)
It's your time to enjoy... Cheers.

vjakov - your memory is short.
2010.
Federer.
1st round bye. 2nd round opponent retired first set. 3rd round walkover. lifted trophy by beating davydenko, baghdatis and fish (3 sets).

Numero... Now that is wishfull thinking...
Two US Masters... One win and one finale... New 420 points... Tomorrow he will have 13920 points... I have to google... Is it another record...
He will play maybe tuesday or wensday...9...10 days. He can recover and rest... No problem...

Alex, I guess you are right - example you give is quite appropriate. But, the point is that one player rarely has such a fine selection of opponents often, specially not in short period on two or three tournaments in a row. Somehow, Andy's result in Montreal two weeks ago, speaks itself in favor of not having too much expectations from Scottish player at US Open.

zare,

It's not really my wish. Just my honest opinion. Like I said I could be wrong. Nole surprised me big time when he won Miami in the heat. He downright shocked me when he won Rome after that tough semifinal. I don't see the bounce back now that was there earlier in the season. It will be extremely difficult for him to win semifinal and final in back to back days in the heat unless his opponent is also extremely fatigued.

Commiserations to Novak fans.
Congratulations to Andy and his fans. He deserved a lot of this title for having made the final and playing well in the final as far as it went. It is not sure at all that Novak would have won against Andy had he not been injured.

One more comment. It might seem that this comment is about the current No 2 player, on a thread not related. But it is not about that player. It is about numero. I find it highly amusing and interesting, numero, that your the tone in your two posts here is so courteous, measured and reasonable. How different from the various distortions and dishonesties that are so prevalent when you comment on the current number two player.

chlorostoma,

The psychotic Rafans like holdserve aka rafaelite required being addressed in a different manner. I don't put you in that category incidentally. Besides isn't it clear that I prefer Nole over Rafa?

Numero,
psychotic is a pretty extreme word. There are a few pretty unstable fans writing here at TT, it is true, and I agree a very few of those are fans of rafa, ... and some are fans of djoker (few: most djoker fans write like human beings) and a whole bunch of such unstable fans that used to write here (some still do) were / are fed fans.

Now... what should that have to do with yourself turning all ungenuine, hateful, unstable youself your posts re rafa? Is it not possible to express your views about Rafa, whatever they may be, in as reasonable way as you have of Novak today? As far as how much of a human being you choose to be when writing in public, it matters not a wit whether you like one player less than another... the numerous choices you've made to write as hardly a human being when writing about rafa .... cannot be excused by the behaviour of anyone else... nor by whether you like him very little... if those are excuses that you really believe in... well that would be sad no?

Why don't you decide right now, once and for all. that from now you will write about any player only in such ways that befit the human being you are.

chlorostoma,

You asked a number of astute questions in your last post. The key question you asked was - "Is it not possible to express your views about Rafa, whatever they may be, in as reasonable way as you have of Novak today?"

The answer is simple - No!

Your comment was beautifully worded and right to the point! Well said!

To all Murray fans,

I had to come on here to congratulate you and Andy on his great win today. Even though he was deprived of a victory with Nole retiring, there is no question that he won the match with some inspired tennis!

Good for Andy!

Clap clap, well said chloro!

Also, congrats to Andy and his fans, especially alex and deuce, for Andy's win and his seventh Masters shield. So, we have the top four guys monopolizing the Masters series, with 19, 17, 10 and 7 Masters titles, totalling 53 of them, WOW!

I wish for a Nole/Murray and Rafa/Fed halves of the draw at FM. Would be nice to see Rafa/Fed squaring off at FM for the first time. Nole/Murray would be for the first time too at FM.

Oh man, I can't wrap my head around this retirement. Couldn't Novak try to remain in the set with only 3 more games to go? He didn't have to get into grinding rallies, just make an attempt to get to the ball and then let it go by him, his feet were working fin, if indeed his arm was hurting so badly. This would have given Murray an outright win, not a asterisk win, and Novak would have gotten more respect.

I'm sorry Nole fans, i don't believe that his shoulder is as bad as we're led to believe, coz he did the same with the kneee in Monte Carlo, and withdrew, but still kept practising. The fact that he got into such long, grinding rallies with Murray prior to losing the set puts a question mark in my mind. someone with a bad shoulder could not hit the ball as hard and as long as Nole did with Monfils, Berdy and yesterday with Murray, no way.

Thanx for the congrats NNY, lucky,chloro, zare, rfzr and all :) Not gloating, don't do gloating....well when Andy gets his first slam just a teeny gloat perhaps...;)
vjakov, how about putting cold water comments about Andy's win somewhere else? Anyway, thought Fish was meant to be the "red hot" player to beat this tournament?
scoretracker, yikes where did u get that idea? I like many players, including Nole, but Andy is, and while he's still playing always will be, my main man :)

Nole really sud have plated 3 more games and let Andy win it without an asterix. Pretty disappointed with Nole...not expected of a world No.1.

@atul1985
exactly what i thought. Fed or Rafa would have never withdrawn from a final.

Very Well Done, Andy.

Congratulations to Murraynites.


I've been really busy this weekend so only caught some of the tennis, but I'm pleased that Murray won this to replace his Canada title which he didn't defend.

I guess that if Nole took racket in his left hand, continued to play "3 more games" just to satisfy Andy's "fans", then deuce, atul and eduard... would be lamenting over inappropriate reaction of No1? Andy was simply lucky at Cincy, and if goddess of fortune Fortuna stays at his side, his fans might have another celebrations in future some time again. But remember, Cincy is just warm up tournament for the main event: US Open. And the result at US Open counts much higher then warm up for sure. We'll all forget Cincy injuries, i.e. shoulders, ankles, knees... when big event starts next week

I am ok with that.. that Quins take Andy and Wimbldon take Nole, as Andy take Cincy and USO take Nole :)

Far from the most stylish of muzz's masters tournament victories, but nothing 'lucky' about it, vjakov. Sure, muzz got to the final without meeting a top seed, but so did nole. sure muzz's final opponent retired in the 2nd set, but so did nole's SF opponent at the end of the 1st set - and, make no mistake, unlike nole against muzz, berdych had the beating of nole before HIS shoulder started to go. Tournaments are not won in 1 match but over the course of a week, muzz had to contend with pretty much the same quality of opposition as nole, rafa and fed, but muzz didn't drop a set all week - that's the bottom line. Nothing 'lucky' about it. I know you're used to nole winning absolutely everything, but please don't be so greedy and show a little bit of grace on the rare occasion someone else gets to win. Why not just bite your tongue, like we muzz fans have had to do all year, and simply say 'well done' when another great player wins - that's the way big people respond to defeat.

lucky, nny, nadline, chloro, zare, rfzr and all wellwishers - thanks. and sorry if, unlike deuce, I've gloated a bit over much. Being a muzz fan, I'll no doubt soon have opportunity to get over it ... but hopefully not until after flushing meadows ;)

Vjakov,
Are you bitter because Andy won?
It wasn't his fault that Novie pulled out was it?
And Nalbandian & Simon are in no way easy opponents.
Murray played completely within himself for the entire tournament.
I assure you that it was merely a run-up to USO for him as well, Murray doesn't need `luck` for Masters events. Don't be so sure he requires much more of it @ New York than the other 4 (or 5) have had or will have either..
You ain't seen nothing yet...

I didn't see the match but regardless of Nole's condition, I feel Murray would have been a deserved winner. He's played the better tennis of the two this week, and is generally a better player on fast hard courts I feel.

I am of the view that Nole should have completed the match, but if he was serving at 100 mph on first serves, then there must have been substantial pain in his shoulder. And shoulder pain is one of those things that tennis players should watch out for, particularly before a GS, its not worth risking it.

Full congratulations to Murray on a deserved title. He's been in this position before, winning a Masters Series title before the US Open, and then been disappointing at the Open itself. He's got a real chance this time, and I hope for his sake and his fans that he doesn't disappoint - well, not entirely, since I want Nole to win :D. But it would still be nice to see him join the other three as a GS winner next month.

Nole should do what he can to recover and get ready, and I'm sure he feels like he can win the USO and will give it his all to win.

To be honest, if there is no Nole at the tour, my favorite player would be Andy Murray. I love his changes of pace during every point of game and smart teasing of opponents provoking their errors... Title in Cincy is certainly deserved, even though I'm sure he was lucky (what is wrong for being lucky?) to play only with 2 players from top 10 (one 29 years old and the other with injured shoulder) and Nalbandian is 77 ranking and 29 years old too. Andy's outstanding versatility as an all-round player is certainly good for tennis and I wish him luck in future (he doesn't lack in luck though...) And for Alex to answer his rude statement: "don't be so greedy...": Money and glory that Novak earns has nothing in common with my pocket or my happiness.

Alex and Deuce: I was held up yesterday and arrived home when it was all over. But have just watched the highlights and was impressed by what I could see of Andy.
Too sad that he was denied the glory of an all out win. I wont throw more fat on the fire by voicing what I really think about the retirement but Djokovic's comments
in the post match interview were pretty pathetic. He did not do himself any favours. Not becoming from a World No.1.

@Vjakov,
Despite being 29, Fish was the inform player in the tournament (apart from You Know Who) playing great tennis. He had taken Novie to 3 in the Montreal final and had taken OUT Puss N Boots in this tourney, he was brimming with confidence & yet was despatched by a rather whiney Muzzy in the semi in straight sets.
It wasn't a great tournament anyway-I personally think the weather impacted the quality of the tennis from most of them (More evening and late afternoon matches would have been better), and following straight on from Montreal.
Andy will def need luck if he is to Win the USO (the other 3 certainly had fortunate draws for their first slam successes also) esp in such a strong era, but this win @ Cincy really wasn't all THAT lucky...

Alex and Deuce-
I am furious! Murray deserved the respect for a player "to bother" finishing a match against him, I mean Djokovic is the world number one, and yet couldnt show murray, the fans or his ranking any respect and threw in the towel in a FINAL because he knew he couldnt win...he had 3 games to play, 12 points that could have been over in 3-4mins, yet no... And then he rocks up at his press conference and says what he says showing his classly behaviour...there is a reason why Rafa, ROger and Murray are loves, maybe Novak should take some notes out of their books

With all talking about Nole... Nobody is trying to steal credits from Andy !
He was better man on court... there is no doubt about that. Win is win!
If you ask me...if Nole has to lost... I prefer that he lost from Andy! Hope that Muzza will continue in this way and finale enter in first three places on ranking list. Fed is less than 2000 points away... if Andy goes deep in rest of tournamnets I think he can finish this year on No3 place.
One more time...Congrats to Muzza!!!!!!!!!!!

@isabeau77 - Nole is also loved by a lot of people but maybe not to an extend of Rafa/fed. however, his retirement yesterday def. has not gone down well with a lot of tennis fans including me. (also given his history of retirements, I guess he is more critically looked at in this regard).

Also his words at the press conference sounded a little too cocky to me. Did Rafa not say after his wimbledon loss, that Novak cannot continue to play like this for too long?? lets see how true his prophecy turns out to be.
However, oNe thing is for sure that if Nole wins US Open, this retirement will be well forgotten. He is still having one of the greatest seasons after Johhny's 1984 season.

Why "little too cocky to me"... if I may ask atul?
He said ...TWO times... "I am not saying that if I were 100% fit, I would surely win. Andy is such good player... but should have better match "
So this is not sportive enough...
He said the pain was stronger and stronger... so everything ends in one point. You believe him or not... that's the point.
Commentators on tennis TV were speaking about it during the beginning of sec. set... "What is more sportive...continue or quit in this situation..." so the conclusion was "Only Novak knows how serious injury and pain is..."
I am defending... you are attacking... ( I don't mean you personally... globally speaking )... bit the fact is that we don't know. So I will let gossiping and speculations to experts like Mr Lindhal and others.

This all makes me laugh - hard :) :) you have to hand it to Djokovic - he didn't want it on record that he was bageled so to deprive Murray of the sweet taste of a clear-cut victory he retires. Could he have played on - of course he could. If you've sweated it out for a set and a half he could have played 3 games more. Very bad form but not unexpected - after all he does have a history. Mind you he could have played on, lost and then said he was the better player. He's done that too. Why retire and deprive your opponent of a victory especially when you're not incapacitated?
Still it was amusing as when I saw the trainer I knew a retirement was on the cards. At least I wasn't disappointed :)

Lucky you... Blessed... You and Novak are, obviously good friends, he keeps you so well informed.

thank you nny and luckystar (and it seems it was a case of 'touche', 'coule')

as for who wrote that Andy is often lucky in his draws... what? I do believe that the scandal brewing Cheryl wrote the blog about has some serious amount of truth to it... but whatever amount of illegal fixing of draws... and legal favoritism (which days someone plays, on which court, time of day...) it has benefitted in particular one player for many years, as many of us have been suspecting and writing here almost since TT started... but I don't think much if any of this ever benefitted Andy Boy. Other than the tournaments not so equitable decisions (some players are more equal) ... the rest is up to true chance and as far as true chance goes: in playing around 20 tournaments a year, year after year,... no one can be lucky particularly often.

Atul-
Regarding djokovic I know he has his fans but let's not forget that because of his antics in the past he is disliked by many, i mean new York only started to warm up to him last year and retiring like he did and saying what he said in the press conference doesn't help his cause and isn't good for tennis. With the world number 1 ranking also comes responsibility. I know he has a history of retirement but I'm not holding that against him, that is the past, but since this year, I have not likes his attitude or his familys, nor his behavior on or off the court. He can retire as much as he likes, but all I ask, is that he shows respect to the fans, to his opponents, to the game of tennis and start acting like a grateful world number 1 rather than a spoilt one. He was my second fav player behind rafa but he has lost me as a fan. I fell in love with his play and his humur but the attitude he has now has killed it for me

isabeau77,

lets not forget nadal didn't defend his wimby tittle 2009. i'm sure he was injured then while novak wasn't yesterday? if we are ready to judge, lets use the same standards.

isabeau - I have to say rafa would never have pulled out the way nole did yesterday. Nole may be great, but Rafa is a hero. But equally I can't say I'm angry or furious when Muzz has just won another masters - I'm just enjoying it. I'm not getting down on Nole though, as there are some things to admire in his attitude too, like when he applauds when the other guy plays a great shot - I'd like to see more players do that.

Vjakov. The bottom line is, when someone plays 5 consecutive days in the blistering afternoon heat (like muzz had to all week) and wins a masters title without dropping a set, common decency says 'Congratulations' or 'Well done'. A RUDE person would say 'You were lucky'. Anyway, I'll drop it there as it's time to celebrate:)

Isabeau... here we go again ??? NY incident ???
Yes it was... Rodick had a dirty mouth and Novak answered... clear and honest ???
What would you say if it was vice verso? looool !
You don't like his family ... that's even more absurd !!! I can't stand Muzza's mom but that has nothing to do with him!
Try not to believe everything you read!
You see... Nole quits injured... and here we go... dig everything since he was 4 years old!!!
You have every right to your opinion... but you see that your statements are just cliché... over and over... " King is dead!" ...said his mother in 2008. What a mortal sin... unforgettable and unforgiven... ! Is this next argument, just wanted to spare you typing :)

Alex... funny you mention it:
"...like when he applauds when the other guy plays a great shot - I'd like to see more players do that...."
There were many posts here from ppl who dislike it... saying that is patronizing...that he do that only when he is in front...
My God... he was trying... he even re-break Andy ... but the service was gone with the wind... he should continue with left hand ?
I really hope that your man will benefit from this tournament and reach 3. place 'till the end of year. Enjoy! You and deuce are reason why I will never ever say something against Muzza.

i didnt like djokovic retiring when he did, but I respect his decision as he was obviously concerned about his shoulder problem(he was obviously injured as he didnt CHOOSE to serve at 95mph) and his main priority is to get fit for the open. good win for murray though, he has a good chance at this years open.

zare - thanks, you make me happy:)

and likewise from me, zare :)

rfzr, 8/22/11 4:31 PM Exactly what is the point you are trying to make? Please enlighten us.

People seem to forget that Nadal to retired in AO 10 semis against Murray. Why wern't these comments given, back then. No one knows how much pain Novak was enduring.

Nolw was in a "no win" situation yesterday. Had he stood there and let balls go by him people would have said he tanked the end of the match because he knew he couldn't win anymore. I personally didn't want to see that.

As he quit he's taking a lot of flack. He plays an individual sport so it's somewhat understandable that he did the selfish thing by retiring. He has to look out for his well being. If he's smart he won't care a hill of beans what people say about him. His job is to win; not please everybody.

vjakov, 8/22/11 9:56 AM
You are barking up the wrong tree dismissing Cincy as a just a 'warm up' for the USO and therefore doesn't count for much. Montreal and Cincinnati are two of only eight Masters 1000 tournaments and as such are highly prized titles to win.

Take a look at the illustrious roll call of past winners for both these tournaments if you dont believe me.

ed251137, my point was, don't jump the gun without thinking first. and equal standards applied for each player. i guess it wasn't that hard.

again, all credits to andy, he won fair and square.

ed,

You asked the question I was going to ask! How on earth Rafa somehow gets brought up in context with Nole's retirement in the finals yesterday, just galls me! Yet I am not surprised! That was the most ridiculous comment I have read on here and the answer to your question equally nonsensical. Some will just never miss a chance to take a cheap shot at Rafa AND of course his fans!

If it was Rafa who retired yesterday, we all know what we would be reading here now. We went through it at Wimbledon when Rafa hurt his foot in the fourth round match with Delpo. Nole crouched down in the exact same manner as Rafa when he felt acute pain in his shoulder. When an athlete does something like that, you know he's hurting and there's a problem. However, all good faith and reason goes out the window when it's Rafa.

They hypocrisy on Nole's retirement yesterday, is appalling!

deuce and alex,

Oh have fun! Gloat a bit if you wish! You deserve it! :)

AMurray has had a superb week, something we Andy fans can`t say too often! For sure he`s put Montreal firmly behind him. Numero, I too think Nole was in a no win situation yesterday, he`d have taken pelters if he`d carried on and sustained a substancial loss as it is he`s taking them for doing whats best for his well being, which of course he has to do, esp with the USO coming up. No one knows how much pain or discomfort he was in yesterday, plus as already pointed out Nole did say in his press conference that even if he had been fit he couldn`t have been sure of beating Andy.

@NativeNY...
You have answer in front of your eyes... but you don't want to see it...
It was Rafans who started with stories about Nole's retirement... and comment "He will never be Rafa or Fed"
Nobody was attacking Rafa... I just gave examples of double standards on this site.
You can search all my posts in last 4 years. I have never said anything against Nadal.
Neither Mriidula, Stu... and lot of other respectable Nole's fans. After his win,,, Andy received all congrats from Nole's clan... so I would thin twice before talking about hypocrisy.

zare,

Why would you think my comments were directed at you? Did you read what rfzr said about Rafa? This person is the one who brought Rafa into this discussion by reminding a Rafa fan that he didn't defend his Wimbledon title in 2009. What on earth does that have to do with Nole's retirement yesterday? Don't you understand the frustration of having Rafa brought into every conversation, even when it's not about him?

I am not saying that Nole can never be Rafa or Fed, so please don't put those words in my mouth. I am only responsible for what I say, not what others say here. You know as well as I do, if it was Rafa who retired in that match we would be hearing the usual nonsense about him faking it yet again! I don't see people accusing Nole of faking his injury, just being disappointed that he retired. So what's wrong with that? Are people not allowed to have their feelings?

The hypocrisy to which I was referring, was from numero and rfzr. I was not referring to you or any other Nole fans. I don't take cheap shots at any player. I have no doubt that Nole's shoulder problem was real and that he was in a good deal of pain. I saw it on his face when the trainer visited him on the sidelines. I would have preferred that he tried to finish the match, however it's over and done.

Just don't assume that I am referring to Nole fans when I am not.

Yes NNY... rfzr mention Rafa ... but you simply don't want to see posts here :)
I will help you:
"I'm sorry Nole fans, i don't believe that his shoulder is as bad as we're led to believe"
"he did the same with the kneee in Monte Carlo"
"handing out and fixing the draws to make hings easier for Nole to win is not the answer"
"Novak's selfish attitude is why I can't warm up to him, ever. He'll never be the No. 1 that Roger and Rafa have been"
............................................................... ..........scoretracker
"there is a reason why Rafa, ROger and Murray are loves, maybe Novak should take some notes out of their books"
" I have not likes his attitude or his familys, nor his behavior on or off the court" "There is no way Rafa or Roger would have retired in the final"
.............................................................. ...........isabeau77
"You have to hand it to Djokovic - he didn't want it on record that he was bageled "
................................................................... .....Blessed
".but tennis badly needs Rafa and Roger back to regain their past position at the top of the game."
.............................................................. ..........Lebsta
"Compare that rafa in FO 2009
................................................................ ........Raghav
Enough of examples... or I have to copy-paste more.
I hope it's clear to you now who brought Rafa in this story.

"Why would you think my comments were directed at you"

this is the public forum, and everybody is free to comment. learn that or leave this forum.

zare, yes you are right, rafa fans can trash novak, novak fans are not allowed to bring the reciprocity. and then some talk about hypocrisy !!!!! rafa's retirements are legitimate while novak's are not!

rfzr,

Please do not give yourself the authority to interpret my comments! You didn't even understand what I was saying! I was asking a question for heaven's sake, an honest question! So don't go interpreting and speaking for me.

As for your pious and self-indugent and gratuitous comments about what this forum is about, don't get delusions of grandeur! You don't get to tell me to learn or leave this forum! You don't run this forum so keep your foul and insufferable personal attacks to yourself!

zare,

You quoted any number of people, but I was not among them. I speak for myself, not anyone else here. I cannot tell people here what to say or how to say it.

My point is that it doesn't matter who said what. It's not like rfzr or numero need an excuse to bring up Rafa. Again, I reiterate ed's reasonable question about what relevance Rafa's withdrawal from the 2009 Wimbledon has to this discussion. Is that analogous to Nole's retirement from a Masters final? Rafa didn't play at all. However, the truth behind rfzr's agenda in bringing this up, is to once again throw out that slimy theory from the lunatic fringe that Rafa didn't play because he didn't think he could win, not because of the knee injury.

Apparently, you are okay with Rafa's 2009 Wimbledon withdrawal oeing brought into this discussion as retaliation for Rafa fans saying derogatory things about Nole retiring.

What is truly hilarious is the complete and total hypocrisy of someone like rfzr. Telling me that that this is a public forum and everybody is free to comment and then all of this anger at those who criticized Nole for retiring. So apparently this forum is only free for those who say what certain people want to hear.

Did you read what rfzr said about Rafa? This person is the one who brought Rafa into this discussion by reminding a Rafa fan that he didn't defend his Wimbledon title in 2009. What on earth does that have to do with Nole's retirement yesterday?
Nativenewyorker, 8/22/11 10:12 PM

Hi Native,

I can answer that. Nole was accused of not finishing the match because he knew he could win. This was said to be unbecoming of a world #1.

Let's go back in time. just before Wimbledon 2009 Rafa played 2 exhibition matches, first against Stan then against Hewitt. He lost both. Then the draw comes out and Rafa's scheduled to play Hewitt in the second round. Rafa, a world #1 at the time, then pulls out stating that he won't play because (and I'm paraphrasing here) he knew he had no chance of winning and he didn't see the point of playing if he didn't think he could win.

So there's an exact comparison to Nole's statement yesterday that he could have finished the match but what for? He couldn't beat Andy with one shot. So what's worse : Not finishing a match for possible fear of being bageled in the final set or not showing up for a GS for fear of not being able to win it or losing in an early round? Both from world #1 players.

Correction above :

Nole was accused of not finishing the match because he knew he could NOT win.

rfzr, 8/22/11 8:01 PM: I still do not understand your point and your sarcasm is uncalled for.

If you are making comparisons be sure you are comparing like with like. Withdrawing from a tournament before it has begun because of ongoing injuries cannot be compared to throwing in the towel half way through a final because of pain and tiredness. QED.

Sorry NNY... but you are sinking like titanic in hypocrisy...
First you ask... How Rafa ended here! ...when you got your answer... you say it is not important who said what.
"Apparently, you are okay with Rafa's 2009 Wimbledon withdrawal oeing brought into this discussion"...yes I am, in same way as you are OK with Rafans who are bringing the story here about Nole.
Geeeez... Isabeau even brought famous NY incident...
You say... "I don't see people accusing Nole of faking his injury"... I say you don't want to see... Scoretracker accused Nole twice for yesterday... even for Monte Carlo when he didn't play... also faking knee injury...
So at the end... when irritated Nole fan answer with his contra argument you are surprised...
For you everything can be said and done unless it is in connection with Rafa!? And then... you wonder what is OK for me...? Please don't insult my intelligence with your naive questions.
I am sick with empty statements, false accusations and pure lies about Nole...as much as you about your man.
I think I have said loud and clear what I think and I am finding continues very unpleasant, so I will rest my case.

Rfzr-
Rafa could not defend his title in 2009 because he was so injured, he couldn't even take the court for the first round! How does this compare to djokovic retiring in the final, it doesn't!
Djokovic chose to play on in a tournament when he got injured, only then to pull out in a final, not the quarters but the final! There is a massive difference to pulling out in final compared to any other round, because you take away someone else's legitamate shot at the title. Yeh rafa has pulled out in quarters and semis, at least he was fair enough to realize that he couldn't play or win the final. He would never and I mean never retire in a final hurt unless he passed out unconscious or dislocated something.

numero,

Thank you for making my case in your comment @11:10 pm! Yes, this is theory propagated by the lunatic fringe of rabid Fed fans, to whit that Rafa decided to withdraw from Wimbledon because he couldn't win, NOT because of his knee tendinitis! So there you go again! The reason Rafa didn't believe he could win was because of the knee tendinitis, not that he simply couldn't win!

I will say this here one last time, because I am sick to death of dealing with the lunacy of these bizarre theories - anyone who thinks that Rafa withdrew from Wimbledon in 2009 ONLY because of a a belief that he could not win, is deliberately and maliciously lying and ignoring the evidence of test results and diagnosis from Rafa's doctor. The tests and medical treatment were presented for all the world to see. To think otherwise means that one has lost touch with reality! And that is all I will say about the matter.

The two incidents are not analogous. The 2009 Wimbledon was brought up by rfzr as retaliation for what was said about Nole. However, as has been pointed out by ed and isabeau, the two have nothing in common.

zare,

I don't know how or why we got into this argument. I guess it's because I didn't go along with your contention that the retaliatory comment from rfzr was justified. That's how I feel. Considering the fact that I was not the one who had anything negative or insulting to say about Nole, I am truly baffled at your attitude in your latest response. You are not hearing me and I fear that we cannot continue this conversation. I don't even know why I am being attacked as though I insulted Nole. However, I have come to expect nothing but sexist, degrading, personally insulting comments from rfzr. I do not wish to engage with this person for any reason on this forum.

ed and isabeau,

I will leave you two to continue this discussion. I am fed up with trying to make people understand that which they never will. Yes, there is no analogy between the two events, but it was brought up to be cruel and nasty and to incite Rafa fans. We all know the truth about Wimbledon, but there will always be the lunatic fringe who will try to rewrite reality.

I'm going to jump in here and say that I think we should give players the benefit of the doubt. If Rafa didn't play Wimbledon, it's because he was hurt, not because he didn't want to lose. And if Nole withdrew mid-match it's because he was worried about doing more damage. I saw him flexing that shoulder in the MOnfils match and could tell it was bothering him even then.

The reason Rafa didn't believe he could win was because of the knee tendinitis, not that he simply couldn't win!
Nativenewyorker, 8/23/11 12:18 AM

The reason Nole didn't believe he could win was because of the sore shoulder, not that he simply couldn't win!

And your point is????????????

I never said anything about Rafa's tendinitis. I never denied that it was there. The analogy holds : Both guys did not feel they could win a tournament due to physical problems so they pulled out. The only difference is the timing of the withdrawal.

cheryl,

Thank you for your comment. I appreciate it. I have already said that I believe that Nole was injured, that it was real and that he was in pain. He withdrew because he felt it was best for him. However, what I do not understand is how the two events can even be compared. Rafa elected not to even compete at the 2009 Wimbledon due to the severity and incapacitation of his knee tendinitis. Nole elected to participate at Cincy, so he must have felt that his shoulder injury was not so serious as to preclude his competing at all. The two are not analogous and should not be compared as such.

If you read numero's reply to me, then you can see what I am up against here. So I am opting out of this discussion, because it has become pointless. What bothers me is that I am being attacked by Nole fans, even though I didn't say anything critical about his retirement in the finals.

This is a no-win situation and there is nothing more for me to say.

Native... last word...
WE ARE IN DISCUSION ...not because RFZR... he is adult... I don't need to defend him!
You entered here... crying out-loud "why on Earth is Rafa here?"
I showed you 4,5 posts, in which clearly...Rafans are compering Rafa with Nole...
You are ignoring that... wondering like innocent french room maid why are we having this discussion.
You are hiding behind your politeness and in same time twisting the obvious facts. Based on that I find that any kind of conversation with you is useless.

NNY: Ignore rfzr. We learnt long ago that he/she/it is definitely not an adult but a mere jerk-off.

Andy totally deserves his win! But Nole did well to make a masters final despite being injured and fatigued.

NNY - I am not disagreeing with you. Obviously there is a difference between determining that one isn't fit enough to play a tournament and withdrawing in the final midway through the second set. But I still say that the benefit of the doubt should be given.

Why should rafa have taken up a spot at wimbledon playing on knees that wouldn't bend and especially with the possibility of making the injury worse? Ridiculous to contend that it was simply fear of losing. And why should Nole continue playing a match with pain with a major right around the corner and the fear of making the injury worse looming.

I think both Nole and Rafa have proven that they have an incredible fighting spirit.

To numero, please do not compare Wimbledon to Cincy, there's no ground for comparison!

First, Rafa is the defending champion at Wimbledon. I feel that Rafa was making a right decision by withdrawing from Wimbledon 2009. Why, because it's also for the benefit of the Wimbledon organisers. It would be embarrassing for not only the defending champion, but for the Wimbledon championship, to have the defending champion knocked out in the first round. If that happens, people will question what kind of standard Wimbledon has, to have a defending champion knocked out in the first round. Also if the reason being that the defending champion was injured, then the question that came next would be why was he playing when he was injured, and as a result embarrassed both himself and the Championship? It's a lose-lose situation for Rafa and the Championship if Rafa was injured and still insisted on playing. By witdrawing, Rafa had most probably saved the Wimbledon Organisers any embarrassment. There's no hope for an injured player to win Wimbledon, remember this is Wimbledon we're talking about, not any other smaller tournament.

To whoever so brought out Rafa's retirement at the AO 2010:
please note that it was a QF match, not a final!! Rafa was injured during the final of Rotterdam in 2009, playing against Murray. Rafa did not retire but carry on playing and got a 0-6 score in the final set, and Rafa mentioned that he did not want to retire in a final match. I believe Murray at that time was much appreciative of Rafa's gestures.

jean: i notice significant improvement in your social skills, i am not accused of being a racist!

cheryl,

You are the voice of reason. I agree with everything you said! :)

jean,

Have you been reading the names I have been called by rfzr? Subtlety is not a strong point of this individual.

Bringing up Rafa's withdrawal at the 2009 Wimbledon was supposedly to get back at some Rafa fans who were critical of Nole. If that's the best this individual can do, that's very sad!

Like it's okay to trash Rafa because some of his fans didn't like Nole retiring from the final. Talk about being thin-skinned! After what Rafa fans have had to endure with all of the idiotic accusations of him faking injuries!

lucky,

Good luck with your argument! Remember also that Rafa did not retire in this year's AO in the quarterfinal match with Ferrer, despite suffering a hamstring injury in his leg. He knew that there was no way he could win the match, but he insisted on completing the match even though Uncle Toni wanted him to retire. I don't know if people remember, but I posted a link to a video in which Rafa famously answered Uncle Toni and told him in graphic language in his native Spanish that there was no way he was going to retire! It was incredibly painful for him to have to play that match and know that not only was there no hope of him winning, but that his dream of winning the Rafa slam was gone.

What gets me is that I didn't even have a problem with Nole retiring! So I got attacked anyway! So much for trying to be respectful. It doesn't work with some people here.

"Bringing up Rafa's withdrawal at the 2009 Wimbledon was supposedly to get back at some Rafa fans who were critical of Nole. If that's the best this individual can do, that's very sad!"

stop acting out publicly, i never questioned his decision to withdraw, i just pointed out the existence of double standards on this forum. seems you are not able to handle it.

"jean,

Have you been reading the names I have been called by rfzr? Subtlety is not a strong point of this individual. "

ha ha, this made me laugh, jean is one very sophisticated and subtle individual.

We have house guests at the moment so I have little time to subscribe to TT so let me say that I haven't read all the posts incase I misinterpret anyone.

I think it should be expected that with the amount of tennis Nole has played this year he would suffer from physical wear and tear, gluten diet or not. This is a problem Rafa has had in the past by going deep into every single tournament he plays and some people accuse him of faking injuries. I am sure Nole is injured; it stands to reason.

Even Nole is now complaining about the toll the schedule takes on them and the ATP should take note.

I dont care what nole does and why does that. But i cant tolerate people questioning rafa's commitment.Rafa is not afraid to lose when he knows even before a match he has problems which would not enable to compete as he normally does. Yes he has retired from matches but only when he could not endure the pain anymore. But he has also continued to play through pain or fatigue: the lopsided results in finals of hamburg in 2007,miami in 2008, madrid in 2009, rotterdam in 2009, chennai in 2008 proves he is not a habitual quitter. Also he contined to play despite high fever in doha this year and despite his injury in aus open against ferrer.

Congrats to all Murray fans...this was a great and highly needed win for his confidence...this will make USO so interesting...

my opinion on Nole's retirement is that he retired not only due to his shoulder injury but also due to his fatigue and tiredness...as far as I remember he did it right after the umpire announced that the match will be delayed due to rain...so Nole did not want to drag himself into further waiting and prolonging the whole process when he knew he would need to play much better to be able to beat Andy who played well...I must be honest about one thing though: Nole was not playing his best tennis either in Cincy or Montreal but he kept winning which was really great and I admire his endurance, his belief and his self confidence...however, neither did Murray...this final was not as exciting as it would have been if Nole was on the run and if Andy was playing his best...but this is only telling us that both of them will be on fire, ready to fight and produce their best at the USO...we should be grateful that Nole is smart enough not to let his injury gets worse, because there is more to play this season...and Murray as well, even though the match was won due to Nole's retirement we all know that Murray was better player on that given day and that it is great to see him coming back...overall, tennis will bring us more excitement and more rivalries in the future...it is nice to see that Andy now believes in himself, believes he can beat Nole and that nobody is invisible ...maybe Rafa can pick up this way of thinking from Andy...:)

@luckystar, QF at AO or final at Cincinnati, take your pick.

Well said natashao... all this is just adding the spice to last GS in season...
My God... I can hardly wait to see draw...
Personaly I would like to see Rafa/Fed and Andy/Nole SF.
But somehow I am sure that it will be good old song again...Nole/Fed...
I hope that Nole will seek for revenge with Andy...
I hope that Andy will keep his lvl and even raise it...
I hope that we will see Rafa's blaze and thunders... and lot of "vamos"
I hope that Fed will... well... let me see.... be optimistic... (from me... enough :)
__________________________________________________________________

So basically we should be happy...lot of good tennis in front of us!

BTW... I wonder... I am pretty sure that Tsonga won't be in same part of draw with Fed. HEHEHE.... we will see...

Samprallica?? Don't understand your question. It's better for you to read through the posts here, see who started this comparison of Rafa's retirement vs Nole's before picking on me. I guess you're biased and that said it all, picking at me but not the person who started this!

I don't care whether it's AO QF or Cincy Final, it's just the wrong comparison that's all I wanted to say. Nothing to do with what I prefer, you're barking at the wrong tree. What happen to you, you seem to be a self appointed guardian angel of Nole, please show some unbiased view.

When rafa withdraws from wimbledon 2009, he does not win a tournament for 11 months.and he retires mid match at aus open in 2010.where as when nole skips monte carlo for knee injury, strangely he wins 3 tournaments on the trot plus a semi final finish at roland garros. Now when his shoulder is giving him so much trouble to play just three games, he seems to be confident enough to recover in a week. I think nole recovers really fast!!!

Oh please. luckystar, queen of the unbiased. I've already said that I don't like what Nole did and I don't condone his retiring that late in the match, although with the USO looming, I don't see what the big deal with continuing would have been either. Its not like us tennis fans are busting our asses day in and day out to dictate whether a player should retire from a match or not. Rafa could have retired from any of his matches and I wouldn't have gone after him, simply because I know he's entitled to do what he wants, he's worked for it.

What I'm getting at is this:

"To whoever so brought out Rafa's retirement at the AO 2010:
please note that it was a QF match, not a final!! Rafa was injured during the final of Rotterdam in 2009, playing against Murray. Rafa did not retire but carry on playing and got a 0-6 score in the final set, and Rafa mentioned that he did not want to retire in a final match. I believe Murray at that time was much appreciative of Rafa's gestures."

I do remember the match as well, but are you telling me in any way that Nole's retirement in a final (of Cincinnati) has no grounds for comparison to Rafa's AO retirement? Nonsense, much more was expected of that match in the AO, a lot more people were viewing it, and it had a lot more significance. I don't understand how retiring in a QF is ok, but you it is that much more worse to retire in a final - especially with the USO in a week.

I'm not defending Nole in any way, I have no intention of doing so. If he does something that I feel is wrong, I will not hesitate to call him out for it - just as I have at the start of this thread. However, by trying to justify Rafa's retirement in the AO quarters, it is you who is trying to be his "guardian angel".

samprallica, I'm not trying to justify any retirement, i can always dig out Nole's retirements at slams to criticize him if I want. Nole is known to retire in slams, even in the SFs, at FO and Wimbledon. Retiring in a final is different from retiring in a QF match, simply because the spectators would have no other alternatives, like go watch another match. Rafa quitting in the AO QF would certainly disappoint certain spectators, still they can go watch another match as an alternative. Again I don't understand why you pick on me again, I was responding to a post which compare retirement in a final match and a QF match. You, guardian angel of Nole, butt in and started all these questioning, anyway I'm not oblidged to answer your question, it's just out of courtesy that I answer your question.

I'm now watching a recording of the match because I only saw bits of it on Sunday. So far into the 6th game of the first set Nole was hitting the ball with a 180 deg swing with no trouble at all. He didn't look like he felt he couldn't win the match at this point or that he only turned up because it was a final as he was injured, he was playing to win. His team didn't appear concerned.

I've now watched the rest of the match and, in my opinion, Nole did not show any signs of injury until he lost the 1st set. It's debatable whether Nole was fit enough to finish the match, who knows? Because the heavens opened just before Nole pulled out, Nole migh regret retiring at that point, because who knows what would have happened after the rain delay.

Just appalling that all rafa fans do is drone on about his injuries and why he loses tournaments. He loses because he isn't good enough to win!

Stop with the excuses!

The only reason murray won was because djokovic was injured.

Murray would not have won with a fit Djokovic. It just would not happen!

Which is why federer is brrrrrillliant. He gets on with the game in style by a mile.

Rafa is always injured and he now is making up lies. He lies about his uncle. The man who has helped him achieve in the tennis circle he is in.

He lies about people and he is always injured. The excuses keep coming. Fingers, feet and toes. Oh rafa fans go to Germany.

Murray was lucky. He knows it along with the rest of the world.

Anyone who thinks Murray won the match is delusional. Delusional to themselves. ...hummmmm....hmmmmmmm...hmmmmmmmm..

I am going to put on the mute button!

"Anyone who thinks Murray won the match is delusional. Delusional to themselves.."

Oh really?
Er, I think you'll find he DID win the match Sienna dear, that's why they gave him the strange vase like trophy.
That's how it works you see!
Even you can work that one out!

@fleur, Murray won coz Novak couldn't make the grade, not because of injury.

If Novak is injured, really injured, why hasn't there been any news of this injury? Also, why did he not get an MRI for the shoulder? He claimed he had no time to do so. A worrying injury and he does not have the time? gimme a break. He was dropping hints to prepare the tennis world that if he should lose it's coz he's playing with an injury, yet, he didn't have the time to get a test done. Dunno, but you guys can belieive what you want, i think he was just faking it coz he was tired and didn't want to have it on his record that he was beaten, hence, the retirement. What a great sportsman Novak is!

Fleur, you are the delusional blind Fed worshipper here. Check your facts hun, Murray has been in the top 4 for a while now and he didn't get there by luck. The more you write the more you reveal your level of stupidy and blind delusion!

What about Fed? After losing to Berdych at Wimb, "Oh my back, my back, my foot, my ass...".
After losing to Rafa at FO "He only won because I didn't play well, Oh..that's the only way he beats me...ohhhh.....poor me".
"Ohhh..I lost it's not that Tsonga won....Ohhh...."
"Ohhh I had mono last century that's why I'm no. 3...ohhhh my ass..."

Oh and Fed is the world's BIGGEST liar!

Every time before a match he tells the whole world he's fit and there's nothing wrong with him. But when he loses, all of a sudden he actually has an injury. Biggest liar on earth! Just ask Berdych!

@jean, I don't think Roger has ever mentioned his 'ass' as being a problem whenever he loses. I'll admit sometimes Rog is not very complimentary, but he's very forthright and honest, that much I can say, unlike a lot of players who just beat around the bush instead of coming right out and stating what they truthfully feel. Also, Rog does not retire, regardless of how he feels physically, which is remarkable and indicative of good sportsmanship.I got a chuckle out of novak's hug to Murray when he retired. That, to me, was the icing on the cake. He should have used that same energy to stay in the match and lose the hug.

jean, tell me this, do you really think that in all of his years of playing at such a high level, that Rog was 100% physically fit in all of the matches he played, and didn't have any physical problems? I'd say, YES, he has had problems, and quite a lot of them, but he always finishes his matches, and has probably only called for a trainer on about two occasions in his entire career You don't have to like Rog, but give him credit, when it's due. I doubt Roger would have done or said what Novak stated, when asked about retiring with only 3 more games to get to the finish line. Had he been in that situation, I think he would have done differently. I don't mind Rafa fans beating up on Roger when it's justified, but I think that some of the stuff you guys write is grossly unfair and blown outta proportion, which can be construed as being hateful, and nomuchch different from Fleur's statements.

jean, a consummate professional will not alert his opponents about is injuries prior to a match, as they are only be inviting the other to push them harder than usual so that they will break down. don't you remember Murray's match with simon, when Murray was drop-shotting simon unmercifully, coz Andy knew simon was hurting? Well, that is a prime example of why someone like roger, or most players wouldn't let on about feel pain prior to a match. An intelligent and credible player does not let on about his injuries to the opponent, but try to nullify it.

jean, biggest liar in the world??? The Fed is the most honest tennis player out there.

If there is an award for 'Most honest tennis player' Fed would have won it 8 years in a row.

Torres, go and look at Fleur's post and see if you can figure out the reason for my comments. You are a Fed fan so naturally you would defend Fed. You would not defend Murray or Rafa in response to Fleur, although I see Scoretracker has defended Murray's win - good on 'em.

I'm quite happy to stoop to Fleur's level and use the same trash talk that she uses, as long as she uses it and I have time to waste!

ha-ha-ha-ha..... fleur... again brain overheating...
but ..."SCORETRACKER".... DELLUSIONAL FAN... do you read your posts you poor soul..
______________________________________________________________ ____

When he speak about Novak.....

"If Novak is injured, really injured, why hasn't there been any news of this injury?

When he speak about Fed... just two posts later...

"jean, a consummate professional will not alert his opponents about is injuries prior to a match..."
___________________________________________________________ _________

Must admit... in strong concurrency here this is pearl of stupidity and double standards....LOL!!!
scoretracker... pls....just continue to post here... give us a little laugh!!!

Nole was injured and he wasn't required to alert the media! Anyone with eyes could see for themselves that he was in some pain and discomfort in his quarterfinal match with Monfils. He kept trying to stretch out his shoulder and move it in a circular motion over and over again. Even the espn2 commentators noticed that something was wrong and Nole didn't seem okay. He managed to get through that three set match in the end.

It is also worth noting that Nole was wearing some black tape on his shoulder in Montreal. I remember him pulling it off at one point in the final with Fish. In fact, the chair umpire warned Nole if he did it again during his service game, he would lose a point. I guess he may have decided that he felt better without the tape. So there was definitely something going on.

In the final with Murray, as the match went on Nole's first serves were clocked at barely 100 mph. The commentators were tracking his difficulties with getting any speed on his serve. When Nole called the trainer, we got to see him evaluate the shoulder and press different parts to see if there was pain. At one point he pressed on a spot that was so painful that Nole winced and bent his head forward. This was real, the pain was real and the injury was real.

It serves no purpose to continuously denigrate players and question their integrity about injuries. Nole has had issues with retiring from matches, but that was in the past. This year he has shown up and played without any incidents. Having thought about this a bit more, I am fully prepared to give Nole the benefit of the doubt. He has worked hard to improve his game and his fitness, has been professional on court and showed up to play.

Would it have really been enjoyable to watch Nole not even be able to get a serve in at a decent speed and not be able to play his game? The fans got a set and a half and Nole apologized to the crowd in the awards ceremony. I am not about to take cheap shots at him, especially after the way Rafa fans have seen him doubted when he has suffered injuries in matches.

Zare, I'm not a delusional poster. Are you by any chance holdserve's alter ego, as you seem to love the word delusional very much?

BTW, Novak has been mentioning his many problems in a drip, drip manner to the press, and I don't consider him a professional for doing so. To me, he was giving himself an out coz he knew things were not looking too good for him, which is fine, considering he's so mighty and can only lose if he's injured. If you want to be honest, I've defended Novak on this site many times, when his wins were being discredited, but now that I don't agree with what he did during the final, and I've said so, you are angry.

BTW, my reason for asking why Novak isn't saying anything about his injury is due to the fact that he was very vocal about it over the past two weeks, leaking it in small doses to the press, so why isn't he saying anything now? I feel that he should make a statement, coz I'm of the opinion that it was much ado about nothing, H about this injury which prevented him from finishing the matche never had an MRI nor is he saying anything. Don't you find that a bit suspicious? Well, I do.

BTW, I won't get down to your level with the name calling, but don't stop on my account, carry on with your usual dull and uninspiring comments.

Oh well, another mumbo-jumbo sermon from the sainted one, who is following me around and is going to counteract everything I say to get on the side of those who are in disagreement with me. Wasn't it yesterday that this same person was fighting with some Nole fans and others on several issues.?And, haven't I seen this same person denigrate other players whenever they beat Rafa?

NNY are you having fun? I hope so. I guess you were one happy camper when I stopped posting after Wimbledo?. You are so transparent it's pathetic. Anyway, have fun doing what you do best, ala preaching. I suppose numero and torres should thank me for being given a break now that I'm back. I know your style, you'll harass anyone who disagrees with you until they leave. Well, get this, I'll stop posting, when I'm good and ready, and it won't be due to you weaing me down, got it? I hope so, or else you'll be disappointed.

BTW, the next time 9which won't be too long) i see you denigrating another player, i'll refer you to that epistle you wrote @10:08 am. I think St. Paul would be proud of you.Nah, better yet, Romans, is more to your style, preach, preach, and preach.

Oh my goodness, now it's all about one person and one person only, like there are no other people posting here. It''s positively bizarre to be accused of following someone around who hasn't even been here for a while. Yes, there must be an evil and malicious intent behind my comments and of course, I am stalking this person!

Are we going back to personal insults again? Will scoretracker never learn how to behave on this site? So there is a person here who obviously reads and memorizes everything I post here. While it's flattering to get all this attention, it does feel like stalking.

I don't have an ax to grind, but apparently scoretracker does. It's a capital offense to disagree with this person. Funny, I thought this was a forum.

So scoretracker, if you know me then why don't you reveal your identity? You seem to think that I have an agenda whenever you post anything.

I would just appreciate losing the personal, gratuitous, self-indugent ranting and personal insults towards me. However, I am not holding my breath! :)

Hey NNY, I'm the one who talked about the ridiculous name calling on this site. So plz dn't talk about stuff like will I ever learn to behave on this site, when it's you who don't and can't behave in a polite and courteous manner.

If you're not following me aroiund, then tell me this, who was it that mentioned the media? I did, and you've picked up on it, and have done your usual sermonizing by trying to make yourself look good at my expense.

BTW, don't talk about disagreeing with 'this person'. We were not having a discussion as that's not possible, is it not? All that has happeneend is that you took it upon yourself to interject your usual sarcasm and other stuff using the basis of my post.

Look, I don't care to be bothered with you, as you thrive on this sort of stuff, so have fun. I think you love to be portrayed as this saintly person who has got to earn her kudos by making some people look bad. Have fun making friends. Write some dear friend love notes as that will make you happy. LOL.

@scoretracker...

__________________________________________________ _____
When he speak about Novak.....

"If Novak is injured, really injured, why hasn't there been any news of this injury?

When he speak about Fed... just two posts later...

"jean, a consummate professional will not alert his opponents about is injuries prior to a match..."
_______________________________________________________

Unbelievable ! I copy-paste your gibberish and your answer is:
"I don't consider him a professional"
No.. he is amateur who just got lucky to beat Rafa 5 times, ExFed 3 times, Andy 2 times... who is only guy in history with 5 Masters in one season... etc, etc...
Pretty good for one amateur...isn't it ?
And you continue with....
"i don't believe that his shoulder is as bad as we're led to believe, coz he did the same with the kneee in Monte Carlo"
"he did the same with the kneee in Monte Carlo"
... if he retire from match he is faking ... if he miss the tournament he is faking...
If he stayed 3 more sets it would be... he is tanking.... lol!
Did you forget to take your medicals this morning... this is pure idiotic hate and nothing you can say can change it...
Your post are not worth answering and your credibility is gone... ( presuming that you ever had one )

FYI

Injury Concerns for Rafael Nadal, Novak DJokovic in US Open

Top seeded players in tennis Novak Djokovic, Rafael Nadal, Andy Murray, Robin Soderling and Jo Wilfried Tsonga are worried about the last grand slam of the year in US Open 2011.

World No.1, Novak Djokovic had a Shoulder and general fatigue injury in the finals of the 2011 Cincinnati Open against Andy Murray and has been retired from the match. Serbian world No.1, Djokovic is the inform men this season winning 57 of 58 matches with nine ATP Titles, including two grand slams, and surging to No 1 in the world.

World No.2, Rafael Nadal has been defeated against American, Mardy Fish in the quarterfinals and he has been suffering with large burn blisters on fingers and left foot.

World No.4, Andy Murray is the 2011 Cincinnati Champion has got a trouble with his soar arm.

World No.6, Robin Soderling is suffering with wrist from the last one month. However, he has announced that he will be participating in the next week US Open.

World No.8, Mardy Fish has a trouble with heel and

World No.9; Thomas Berdych has been withdrawn form the semifinal against Djokovic in Cincinnati Masters with a shoulder injury.

Injuries of ATP Players ahead of US-Open
Novak Djokovic ? Shoulder and general fatigue. Has had some issues with patella tendinitis this season
Rafael Nadal ? Large burn blisters on fingers and left foot
Andy Murray ? Sore arm
Mardy Fish ? Heel
Tomas Berdych ? Shoulder
Robin Soderling ? Wrist ? he has announced he will travel to NYC
Jo Wilfried Tsonga ? Arm. Ultrasound showed no muscle tear after he withdrew in Montreal.
Andy Roddick ? Recently pulled out of Montreal with an oblique but played in Cincinnati.
Milos Raonic ? Recovering from hip surgery
David Ferrer ? Recovering from hairline fracture in left hand
Tommy Robredo ? Withdrawn ? Ongoing groin issues
Sam Querrey ? Withdrawn ? Recovering from elbow surgery (spurs)
Juan Carlos Ferrero ? Recovering from multiple injuries

^^ oh dear! now the US open is about who can recover the fastest..

wooow.... sound like good party in hospital ...
...poor guys :)

On a lighter note, anyone seen the pictures of Nole and Rafa together at some broadway show?

^yes, I don't think they went together, I think they just both ended up there...

Peter Bodo's tuppence's worth:


http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/features.aspx?art icleid=13810&zoneid=9

Rafa and Nole were at Mamma Mia together:

Novak Djokovic, Rafael Nadal on a casual outing at Mamma Mia

Wednesday, August 24th, 2011 at 8:18 am The World No. 1 Novak Djokovic and 10-time Grand Slam winner Rafael Nadal has went out together for some entertainment at Mamma Mia in New York.

Djokovic and Nadal have spotted at the ancient old musical Mamma Mia in New York, where both the players has some entertainment on Tuesday night. The American people amazed to see the tennis stars together at Mamma Mia. The 2011 French Open champion Nadal said that, he come from Broadway to see Mamma Mia along with Novak and had taken picture with them. Djokovic said that he will be return back into the action at US Open tournament, where he will begin practice session soon.

^^^Source - Tennis News by Sam Siril.

I think she meant to say 'went out together' not 'has went out together'.

natashao , 8/24/11 4:08 PM And the USO is still to come - that is if Hurricane Irene spares Flushing Meadow.

If the injuries continue at this rate we will see a repeat of autumn '09 when players were falling like nine pins during the Asian swing and the WTF became a question of who would still be standing rather than who would win. The problem was exacerbated by stupid scheduling (dictated by TV) which meant some players were on court till way past midnight and then had to play again the next day in the afternoon session with a scant 12 hours recovery time.

RITB: Thanks for the link. I was pleased to see a professional commentator voicing what many people were thinking. It was not the retirement itself which irked so much as the manner in which it came about and the unfortunate remarks which followed at the press conference.

We are all aware players use strategies for conserving energy before the important tournaments but these stop short of walking off the court in the middle of a final. If strategic retirements become the norm then the ATP should perhaps consider making any player with an existing injury submit to a medical by an independent sports doctor and passed fit to play before taking to the court - at least for SFs and finals of the Majors and Masters.

I think natashao's list is a powerful testament to the toll that the long tennis season takes on the players. The USO can be one of the more challenging slams to play, given the scheduling. Having no rest in between the semis and finals is one of the most difficult aspects of competing at the USO.

Uncle Toni has been saying that Rafa isn't fit enough for the USO. I am hoping that Rafa can get some good practice sessions and work on his serve and groundstrokes. If he is healthy, then he has the chance to play himself into form. The draw is coming out tomorrow and then we will know who he will face in the early rounds.

ed... I must say that I am agree... that was very poor choice of words...
Yes interesting... tnx for link RITB... but comments are also interesting... Lot of ppl there said that Bodo hardly can wait to find something about Novak.

"The American people amazed to see the tennis stars together at Mamma Mia."

Yes American eyes don't see why 2 supposed rivals would be partying together. It wreaks of World Wrestling Entertainment! Give me Connors and Mac or at least Sampras and Agassi. Maybe Rafa was at least trying to get Nole to drink a lot of gluten-filled beer.That would be more acceptable.;)

Whatever happened to this Nole :

http://www.tennistalk.com/en/news/20110523/Djokovic_says_socializ ing_with_rivals_not_really_possible

???????????????????????

Do they serve beer at Broadway shows? LOL!

zare: I see that you are repeating the same comments which I initially wrote, isn't that what's called spamming? I don't know why you find it offensive for me to state that Novak has been dropping hints over the past two weeks with respect to his shoulder, yet, he could not or was unable to find the time to visit the doctor and have an MRI taken. considering the USO is just a week away, and the importance of that tournament, I think even a lay person would make the time, to have an injury, especially, a shoulder injury checked out. Also, an athlete who is concerned about his health would not continue to play if he's in considerable pain, as the damage becomes greater. This is the reason I said I don't feel Novak's injury is as bad as he has made it out to be, and I don't see why you feel that I'm being unfair to him.

Additionally, since he broadcasted that shoulder problem so much, I don't see why he is now keeping it in a hush, hush manner. That sort of action only places doubt in the minds of fans and players, makes it difficult for people to take him seriously, and question bis credibility. I've read some blogs on other sites, and quite a few fans feel that Novak's not hurt but was putting on a good show of faking the injury.

I don't suppose you know that in sports, a player is considered to be fit when he walks onto the court, and excuses are not entertained. FYI, Murray was having some problems with his ankle, but he didn't broadcast it throughout the tournament, coz it's an old injury that flares up periodically. I wonder though, if it had been Murray who was losing due to his ankle, and he retired, how would the Novak fans have responded to that scenario. As a matter of fact, the only way I knew about Murray's injury was reading about it on another site. One of Novak's fans, ensured she posted a link to that effect, and went so far as to rationalize that both players are on even terms with respect to injury, so no disadvantage there for novak, albeit he had a retirement from Berdych. This, from a fan, who claimed that both guys are her faves. When I read that I was laughing to see what lengths some fans would go to justify things for their faves. Fortunately for me, I don't post on that site, coz I doubt I would have had the fortitude to restrain myself from replying to that ridiculous comment.

@ed: " I was pleased to see a professional commentator voicing what many people were thinking. It was not the retirement itself which irked so much as the manner in which it came about and the unfortunate remarks which followed at the press conference."

I feel the same way, hence my comments. The players are all humans and do get hurt, but I thought the manner in which things played out, coupled with the cocky remarks at the press conference, was very disrespectful to the paying fans, Murray, and the tournment. I give Murray kudos for allowing that hug at the net.

Tournament tickets cost a lot of money, especially the finals, and it is grossly unfair to those fans (some of whom have to save for a ticket as a treat to themselves) for a player to just retire with only 3 more games to end the set. I doubt Novak would have collapsed had he continued to play as his feet were doing fine, and only his FH and serve were off but some of those could be due to lack of effort. I guess I'll be killed for stating that Novak is a good actor, so the expressions of pain when the trainer was pressing on his shoulder could be interpreted many ways. As the saying goes, if you're fit to take the court, then you're considered fit to play to the end.

On another note, I was sermonized aide by the use of a lot of self-righteousness for "denigrating" Novak, yet the same poster alluded several times to Novak's retirement on this and the other thread, just after Novak's retirement, and there were many subtle hints abut out on both threads, just one example, viz:

"what the heck was that, Djokovic

RickyDimon, 8/21/11 10:01 PM

"Ricky,

Thank you for saying exactly what is in my mind!

Nativenewyorker, 8/21/11 10:41 PM

Just absolutely unbelievable.

Moderatorso,

Again I must ask you to intervene so that scoretracker does not continue to pollute this site with her attacks on me. It would appear that she has devoted a good deal of time to accumulating a dossier of my comments and is intent on carrying on with a personal grudge. She is using this site to continue to try to harass me. I have not responded, but I am not about to allow her to continue this pathetic crusade.

I am not going to defend myself, however I would hope that something can be done to stop one individual from continuing this erratic and disturbing behavior.

WOW, talk coming from someone who polluites this site ad nauseam is a joke, considering the many fights I've seen just a few days ago between my accuser and the Djokovic fans. I must say, that some people do have a a penchant for the dramatics. I suppose it feels great to attack another for no reason whatsoever, but when there's retaliation and prooof shown that the accuser did worse, then we hear of a pathetic crusade taking place and pollution is in the air. Unbelievable.

If someone does not want to be quoted, then I'd suggest that person not sit on judgment seat and proclaim him/herself to be righteous.

I don't see the harassment as i've not directed any comments to this person aside from those that were in response to accusations hurled my way earlier, which were in the form of sarcasm and innuendoes. I think that's harassment from my accuser towards me.

I forgot to add to my above post, something dreadful has happened. NNY has performed some 'sex change' surgery on me aided by her keyboard. I've been changed into a woman!!!!! I don't think my GF would like this new development in my anatomy.

This is hilarious: Per NNY, "It would appear that she has devoted a good deal of time to accumulating a dossier of my comments and is intent on carrying on with a personal grudge. She is using this site to continue to try to harass me."

I think there is something radically wrong with this poster. Her ambiguities are astonishing, and are really getting out of proportion here. I quoted one sentence, which has been turned into "accumulating a dossier of my comments"...... "She is using this site to continue to try to harass me." I don't know this woman, and I'm puzzled as to why I'm being accused of perpetuating a personal grudge and harassing her, considering she used my comments to make herself appear to be fair and just to all players. This is crazy!