Can one of the Murray fans tell why Andy is playing doubles if his brother Jamie isn't even playing with him? I thought he mainly played doubles so much to help his brother out, not to get match practice, used to the court, etc.

How did the buttics hold out?
Murray and Fed are the hunters going into 2012. I feel they both are looking great and are setting themselves up for a great 2012.
So when they meet this year (max 2X)they will try gain advantage. It has been a year ago they met, game on/.

My prediction: Roger wins Paris. As for the semis, quarters,.... I couldn't care less.

Good luck Roger!!! I want to see you playing and winning on Sunday. I know you can do it.

Thanks to Ricky for providing all of the information for Paris. I especially like the section about possible second round upsets. I guess Ferrero could pull it off if Ferrer is looking ahead to London. I am wondering if Ferrer will want to wipe away the disappointing result in Valencia. It should be a good one.

I think that Mayer could definitely pull of the win over Fish, who hasn't looked good recently. He seems tired and just not playing his best tennis.

Davy could definitely be dangerous on this surface, so a win against Almagro could happen.

I would not take Bogomolov over Tipsy normally, but it could happen if Tipsy is tired after a long season.

Raonic and Roddick should be a good one. Roddick has been a shadow of himself and if Raonic has gotten into decent form, he should get the win.

Anderson and Gasquet will be interesting. Normally I would pick Gasquet, but he hasn't been looking that great lately. Anderson has the game to get the win.

Interesting that Ricky is picking Murray over Fed in the semis. That is assuming that Murray is okay and that injury thing was precautionary. I think Fed could be tough, but it is in these kinds of best two out of three matches where Murray has been able to beat Fed.

Tsonga gets through to the semis if he can keep his head on straight. It's a big opportunity with Rafa not playing and Nole injured and questionable. It's Paris so the motivation to do well in front of the home crowd and their support, will be a big factor.

I look forward to seeing some great tennis.

looking at Ricky's peace... Is djoker out? Or do you want to make shadow prediction?

I am assuming that Ricky doesn't think that Djoker will get far, if he does play. If he is having a problem with his shoulder, why should he kill himself in Paris with London right around the corner.

Native,

Unfortunately most of those second round matches won't occur since Ferrero, Davy and Milos all lost in the first round.

numero,

Oh well, that was some wasted words I guess! Why do I have the feeling that a lot of the great matches I was hoping for, won't materialize. I am not staying up until the wee hours of the morning to see these matches. I will watch the replay the next day on the tennis channel. So I may be a bit behind. I can either come here to see the results or just wait and watch it on tv.

numero, it's to do with the rankings, only way they could all get into the tournament. Obviously Ross, and possibly Colin, needed a boost, as Andy and Jamie just won a title presumably Jamie doesn't..

As are a few others, I'm on that never-ending FedEx bandwagon....I think he'll take Paris!

@deuce

So Andy's helping out everybody. What a guy!

He's helping himself as well.
His net game gets really sharp when he plays doubles,
And I think that shall be critical in taking on Novak & Rafa in the future.
But its no secret that Andy is well liked on the tour by just about everyone as well.

numero, After coming from injury only a week ago you'd expect murray to take it slow and with precaution given that the WTF are 1 week after Paris. But no, the guy plays both singles and doubles.

The injury is starting to look really suspicious. I'm just wondering what would the reason be for him to withdraw from Basel other than the injury?!

Bleck,
Even if he did fake an injury...so what?

"Even if he did fake an injury...so what?"

I'm just wondering what would the reason be for him to withdraw from Basel other than the injury?! And after asking for a WC...

There wouldn't be a reason for that,
That's why it should not be taken as anything nefarious.
Some injuries do not require 6 weeks out.
It also meant, may I add, that Roger had a clear run to the title,
And yes Bleck, I know he was going to win it etc, blah blah.
Lets move on now.

Roger's level was very high. And I believe he would've beaten murray or djokovic had he played them.

I know that some injuries don't require 6 weeks ou but to play singles and doubles 1 week before the 5th most important tournament of the season it's strange to say the least.

Roger's level is always very high against pigeons, at least it looks like that until he's up against real quality.
If you let a top player play their game (esp Roger) then there's really only going to be one outcome.
This has been proven time & time again with Roger in the early rounds.
As for the other, why don't you take it from Roger himself & see it as a precautionary
move by Andy, after some kind of tweak.
Alright?
Or is he in fact a devil Worshipper or something!

Sosueme, nice try but I don't buy it. Roger's level was high against a player who bageled the current #1 as it would be against a top 4.

Let's hope he doesn't tweak anything else...

And I still find strange how he can play singles and doubles after an injury.

For goodness sakes bleck, let's get the thumbscrews out and torture Andy till he tells us what, to you, is the blindingly obvious truth., that he withdrew from Basle because he was just too darn scared to meet Rog and Nole......not.
From all accounts Andy is a thoroughly decent and honourable kind of guy. Obviously far too difficult for you to accept.

What?
Are you serious?!
Bleck, Nishikori is a baby still,
He bageled Novak ONLY because he was carrying an injury.
Otherwise, NOT A CHANCE.
It's not a `nice try`whatsoever, its common sense.
If you can't have at least a bit of perspective on this
then your self appointed role as TT's no nonsense logician is in jeopardy to say the least....
ha-ha-ha!

First, deuce, I never said murray quit because he was scared of playing roger and djokovic, that makes no sense.
Secondly, I don't dislike murray, I certainly don't have anything against him. If anything I would like for him to start beating nadal in slams more often.

Sosueme, I just said that I believed Roger's level of play was very high in the latter rounds of Basel and that he would have won against a top 4 player like he did against a player who bageled the world #1 (that's a fact - Nishikori bageled djokovic).
Of course had Djokovic been 100% he wouldn't have been bageled.

I don't know if you watched the final. But if you did then you know Roger played at a very high level. And that level was enough to beat djokovic in RG.

sosueme and deuce, Both of you wrote alot of stuff but I want to know. Don't you find strange that andy is playing singles and doubles? Don't you think he should play just singles?

PS bleck, Andy conceded fewer games against Nishikori. Can't even remember us commenting much on his victory either.

No I don't think Andy should just play singles. For a start I wouldn't be so presumptuous. Providing Andy feels OK physically I think it's a very good idea. Andy's net play will be key if he has any hope of consistently beating the other top 3. Doubles is an excellent way of improving net skills. Johnny Mac played doubles rather than practising, which he hated. Didn't do him any harm.

deuce, Guess he should play doubles in the sams as well. Wonder why he didn't do that...

Also how many times did he come to the net against nadal in tokyo?

It should be read slams not "sams".

If he bageled Novak when he was injured then Federer would not have had to be playing well for him to have beaten him either. Had he not been injured then Novak's chances against Federer would have been very good.
I've already indicated why I think that, ie an unseeded player is going to allow federer to play freely & look great but Novak Rafa or Murray (and now many others) would not.
You were clearly suggesting that this `victory` of Federer's is something that its not, or why mention it like that?
Another thing, this line of yours about wanting Andy to gets slams so he can take them away from Rafa....I'm sorry but that is pretty low of you to go on about it that way all the time. I never seriously want Andy to win to `get` another player, life's too short to be that petty or bitter.

Sosueme, As it's frequent in our exchanges, if not inevitable, we'll have to wait and see if Roger plays murray or djokovic in Paris. Then we'll see if it's form is good enough to win against the top guys.

"I never seriously want Andy to win to `get` another player, life's too short to be that petty or bitter."
I don't think that's petty or bitter. I just want the slams to be distributed by more guys rather than having djokovic or nadal winning them all.
1 slam for each of the top 4 in 2012 would be great.
Also I think murray will win a slam sooner or latter. And I think it would be a shame for a player of murray's quality not to win a slam in his career.

I think he won't win next year but maybe in 2013 or 2014. He is young, he has a lot of time.

bleck, he may have "a lot of time" but coping with repeated disappointment is not good for his soul. How many times can a player rebound? I think Andy is tremendously brave hearted to keep coming back as he has.
BTW I said "consistently" beat Rafa, is why he must have confidence in his net game and use it far more often then he does. I'm just repeating what Conic and Goodall say endlessly.

Well Deuce, he's going to have to suck it up isn't he?
To be honest I thought he was a disgrace in both of his AO finals.
I don't mind him losing if he at least turns up, but to give in to nerves & poop out the way he had...
I'm sorry but it is weak & immature & a waste.
What we need from Andy is for him to say to himself F:@k this! I'm not going out like that ever again, & if he loses..I'll still support him because I know he put up a good fight, which is all anyone can ask for.
Although I think he'd probably win as I genuinely believe he is starting to play well enough now ;-)

deuce, murray also has been unlucky that he didn't catch a break and had to face federer or djokovic in the finals. Federer won the FO in 2009 without meeting nadal, he was lucky that year. Djokovic meet Tsonga in the final of AO 2008 (although he did beat federer in the semis, but murray has also beaten nadal in the semis of a slam).
Maybe if he gets a bit lucky and wins one he will get more confident in his abilities and win a couple more.

"How many times can a player rebound?" Albeit winning a lot of slams Roger's win in the FO was a lot of work. He lost 4 times to nadal (3 times in finals) before winning it. But he kept reaching the final year after year.

sosueme, totally agree :( I think Braveheart fans are the most realistic, honest and critical of the lot. lol we have to be.
But....whatever Andy does, I'll always love the way he plays. I don't support him because he may win a slam, or because he's British, no it's because when he's on song he's a magician, a maestro and there's no-one quite like him :)

I've already posted here quite recently about the maiden slam opponents of the other 3 so I agree with you Bleck, he def needs a bit of luck (as the others had) but with Murray its not just the tennis of the opponent, it's the occasion, so he still might lose.
Murray is transitioning clearly, there's some kind of building momentum occuring, no one knows how it shall play out...yet.
Here's my prediction, If he wins a slam then he shall be the next world No 1.
The WTF (& it is an important event for some) shall reveal more.
Tell me about it Deuce!
Never was a fan of Braveheart (not a fan of Mel) but I love the heightened skillful way Andy plays & would support him even if he was from Timbuktu, in fact it might have been better for him if he was all things considered.

Hypotheticals such as so and so would have beaten so and so because he did this or that, are nonsense as far as I am concerned. It is in no way a given that Fed would have beaten Nole because he was bageled by Nishikori because he had an injury. That is tortured logic.

The plain and simple truth is that we can only know when Nole and Fed play each other. That's it.

I also appreciate someone finally standing up and saying how petty and spiteful it is to keep saying that you want Murray to win so he can beat Rafa in slams. That's pathetic! But we know why it's being said, especially when it's coming from a Fed fan. Much better to have Murray beating Rafa, not for himself or his fans, but to protect Fed's precious legacy and 16 grand slams. To say otherwise or try to deny that it's mean-spirited, is just being disingenuous.

Nice to see that a Fed fan now wants slam wins to be distributed more evenly, and not just between Nole and Rafa! Of course, when Fed was winning everything except RG. it was just fine and dandy! Hypocritical much?

Sosueme , Stop your Fed hate

We have seen enough of his brilliance over the years.
last year FO semi and first two sets of USO Semi.
Stop now..........

@ 7:22 AM

I've lost track of how many people come on TT with the sole purpose of accusing others of mounting 'hate' campaigns against Federer.

It is beyond tedious.

Furthermore, there is not a shred of evidence to support the accusation leveled at Sosueme.

So, Sabs, please stop fanning the flames of a fire that has not even been lit.

Obviously I as a federer fan want nadal and djokovic to surpass roger's records. That's what being a fan is about right?! (I'm being sarcastic if you didn't notice)

I just can't believe what I read here sometimes. NNY you're up there tied with holdserve and nadline.

Oh lordy Sosueme, I see u've become a "jellus haytar" overnight, do hope the operation wasn't too painful....;)

In the mean time Djoker hast started his match. Unibet was given remarcable odds on the match against Dodig. They probably didnot think he would play.
After seeing him behave Last week during his match against kei, I find it very odd that he would be playing atm.
Overacting a bot with his painface during changeover... Well we shall see later today if he grimmasses again.

'overacting with his painface'

Spot on Sienna. He does have a habit of looking agrieved whenever he loses a point as if his opponent has no right to take even a point off the No.1.

I also find it a bit anoying when he applauds a point of his opponent.
He tends to do those things when he is leading in the match. I wonder what reactions it would give if Fed was to be so applauding towards his opponents whenever he was leading /winning a match. I find it very unsportsmanlike.

Cant believe Dodig's shoes are falling apart and he hasnt got a spare pair with him.
Is it the same brand that fell apart during Noshiki's final in Basel?

Mis-spelt name. I meant Nishikori of course.

Are you sure it's Nishikori? I thought it was Graollers' shoes at the Valencia Final? Different brand, Granollers' was Joma shoes, not Lotto.

Hmm Nole is playing well. Taking larger cuts at the ball. Listening to Sosueme. Shoulder inflammation doesn't crop up, he should make it to the semis at least. Is he in the Tsonga or Monfils quarter?

Tsonga.

Quite right lucky. My mistake. Again!!

It comes from following two tournaments simultaneously. The memory starts to play tricks.

bleck,

Well, I see that you weren't able to answer the points I was making in my comment. So much better to just try laughing and insulting, isn't it?

You know precisely what point I was trying to make and not answering what I said, means that I was spot on. You know very well that I did not imply that you should start rooting for Rafa and Nole to win matches. That was just your way of not answering and twisting what I said.

The hate for Rafa comes through loud and clear with you people. How many times have I had to read how you want Murray to start beating Rafa in slams? Not because you like Murray or want to see him succeed and win a slam, but just so he can stop Rafa. Now that I think about it, maybe you should continue to wish for that, since you are obviously scared out of your wits to see Rafa and Fed meet. I get it.

Oh and I will return your comment in kind. When I read some of your posts, I do find myself not believing what I am reading.

I have to agree with NNY's 11/1011 6:13 AM post. Well said!

Not to worry, Rafa will fight hard to win some more slams. They ( Rafa, Nole and Murray) beating each other to win slams is understandable, but I have to give Rafa the edge over the other two because he's more experienced and is already used to playing and winning season after season. As long as Rafa is FIT and HEALTHY, and he's still in his prime (though off his peak a little bit), he has good chances of winning some more slams.

Hate for Rafa. Who started to talk about Rafa on this thread. He is not even in thois tournement and walked out a loser from his last atch. A terrible loss it was. Nos spirit no fight. Toatally in a shock state. He better be ready otherwise he may add another 3 zero for WTF withing a few weeks.

Nobody is dissding Rafa on this thread you both are brionging that up to make some impropriate claims towards bleck. Who is a very modest and fairminded poster if I may add.

NNY, You don't even answer my questions yet you expect me to answer to your points. I know it's my bad, I should answer and not behave like you did.
Expect a post form me latter today because I have to go to work.

"So much better to just try laughing and insulting..." Where did you get that idea from?
I just said you were up there with nadline and holdserve.
And please don't get so worked up about these discussions. Stress is harmful, relax.

Stay well.

What with the top 4 having proved they can beat each other, plus a clutch of veterans still around to make life difficult, and several younger players racing through the ranks to challenge the big boys, it's nigh on impossible to predict who the Slams will go to next year. But I agree with whoever it was who said the days of winning multiple Slams in a single year are probably over.

Sienna, Thanks for sticking up for me.

Sometimes I do wonder why it is so hard to get through the thick heads of some posters here on TT.

All I'm saying is that I wish Roger stays as the player who won the most GS. Is that so difficult for them to understand?
Maybe if a player threatens to surpass nadal in GS titles NNY will support him?!!

I support Roger. When he retires I naturally will support another player, I happen to like Dimitrov's style of play a lot (maybe because his style is similar to Roger's).

Of course I want Roger to be better by him winning but after he retires I want his legacy and CV which put him as the GOAT to stay the best of the them all.
Records are meant to be broken but I want Roger to stay the GOAT forever. lol

NNY ask some sampras fans how happy they were when Roger surpassed pete's total GS won.

ed, didn't we have players winning multiple slams all along, since 2004 until now 2011? It's Fed, followed by Rafa and now Nole. How come you think its not possible anymore? Didn't Nole win multiple slams this year and Rafa last year? No indication that come next year, a player can only win one slam at best. To me both Rafa and Nole are capable of winning at least two slams, IF they can remain fit and healthy and playing at their best level.

Perhaps sienna should first refer to bleck's comment at 11/8/11 @4.15 PM for a start before jumping in.

Lucky. I was talking about the next few years. I just think the competition between the top four will intensify and there will be a stronger field to negotiate in the earlier rounds. Maybe in the future a new mega star will appear but for the time being I dont see anyone winning 3 in a row as we have had in the past seven years, or threatening Federer's records for Slam final appearances.

O yes Nadal is mentioned by bleck... But so what their was nothing in his comment that could have started you all to react the way you did.

Sienna, if you choose not to see anything in that comment, then I can't help you!

ed, so you think Rafa has no chance of winning two slams in a year? To me Rafa is the only one right now to have a chance to catch up with Fed in the slam counts, and that explains why some of the Fed fans are wishing for Murray (and Nole) to beat Rafa in slams. I feel that in the next two to three years, Rafa has the chance of winning one to two slams a year, together with Nole/Murray.(two is also considered multiple slams right?). I don't know about Delpo, or Tsonga or the rest of them.

Looking at the next batch of youngsters, I really don't know who among say Raonic, Dimitrov, Harrison, Tomic,etc has the potential to win multiple slams.

"but I have to give Rafa the edge over the other two because he's more experienced and is already used to playing and winning season after season..."

That maybe the point however, he may have entered a `non-peak` phase (may have, don't get upset anyone). Novak in my view is `Da Man`for 2012, until proven otherwise of-course. I couldn't possibly put him below Rafa given what has transpired time, after time (after time!) this year on all surfaces and all tournaments.
And I don't see how anyone can at this point, its been emphatic after all.

"... and that explains why some of the Fed fans are wishing for Murray (and Nole) to beat Rafa in slams."

I'm not worried about it. I think nadal wins 2 maybe 3 more slams, all in RG.
All I'm saying is should someone get close I don't want him surpassing roger unlike you and sosueme who would cheer for djokovic, for example, to surpass nadal in GS titles. The gap is the same between Roger/nadal and nadal/djokovic.

Doesn't matter if Nole gets more slams, as Rafa, Nole and Murray all can win more slams going forward. Even if Nole's slam count exceeds that of Rafa's, its OK with me, unlike some Fed fans, who can't stand other players having slam counts that exceed Fed's! Don't try to act smart and thinks everyone has to behave like some Fed fans do!

Its OK to me, for Rafa and Nole to co-dominate the field for a while, and later Nole or Murray to take over the dominance, as Rafa grows older and cut down on the tournaments played. Along the way, Rafa to win more slams and further seals his position as one of the all time greats. I would also welcome both Nole and Murray into the 'all time greats' exclusive club, as that would mean they have all tough it out and proven their worth!

"Don't try to act smart and thinks everyone has to behave like some Fed fans do!"

I don't think everyone has the same opinion as I do. Although I believe the majority of any tennis player fans doesn't like the records of their favourite players being surpassed.

You don't have to agree with me. Don't try and make it look as I said something I didn't.

Don't profess to speak for me Bleck, re the Djokovic surpassing Nadal etc, because I wouldn't (`cheer` that is).
I've told you I want AndyM to win majors (for him & his fans), I'm not bothered who loses what as a result.
The reason I remarked on your comment concerning wanting Andy to win a slam etc because I've heard it too many times before from you & was tired of reading it & what it meant ie Other players are merely cogs in the machine of the tired old Rafa Roger blood feud. The arrogance is off putting.
No one in their right mind would think you would want Andy to win a major for the sake of it. Clearly all of your posts are skewered towards promoting Roger's interests
& image here.

And don't try to make this into a fed fans against nadal fans kind of thing.

I know there are nadal fans that wouldn't be happy if djokovic surpassed nadal in GS titles as you'd be. So this isn't a federer fan thing. It is a normal any player fan thing.

my last post is in response to luckystar and not sosueme.

Sosueme, it seems to me that no one can truly last the full season without getting injured or having some lull time these days. Just look at Nole now, do you think he can last another season like the one he has this year without injuring himself again? Or look at Murray, for half a year he's been in a lull, and it was until after RG that he woke up and came fully alive during the Asian swing and after. For Rafa, his season always ends in some kind of lull after the USO.

So, there'll always be chances for these three guys, going forward; they just have to take advantage of each other's down time. To me, the one who prepares himself well for the slams will be the one who'll win the most slams during the year. It may be 2,1,1 split among the three of them going forward, and each may have his turn of getting 2 slams a year, IMO.

bleck, I say it once again, don't try to act smart and assume how I would feel if Nole exceeds Rafa's slam count.

Sosueme, i so agree with the last two paragraphs of your 4.03 PM post.

Wouldn't you enlighten us. How would you feel? Sosueme accused me of not answering the points she made in her posts.

Well you 2 don't answer mine also.

How would you (luckystar and sosueme) feel if djokovic surpassed nadal's number of GS won?

Well, What was wrong with the first part of the post then?!? (Joking Lucky!)
Sure, I wasn't giving you a hard time (but I disagree that he Rafa has the edge).
I've always said that this grinding game shall take its toll.
But it could take its toll a bit on Rafa too as he was right there with Novak all the way through and has played more matches this year etc.
As for Andy, well he still has to get over himself and find the right balance before we can even think about adding him to the mix (although in my view he's simply too good not to find it soon enough).
It would be strange if he reired with 22 masters titles 5 or 6 years from now & no
slams under his belt!
He seems to be determined to realise his goals now with less of the nonsense, the penny could be dropping.
This year coming up is going to be one helluva year, & we still have the WTF to look forward to!

bleck, please refer to my 3.56PM post! I'm not going to repeat all over again!

What points Bleck? (I'm a `he`also).

How would you feel if djokovic surpassed nadal's total GS tally or if a player in the future broke all of nadal's clay records.

"I'm a `he`also."
I apoligise.

no need to apologise, I make this mistake here quite often too.

As for your question, I'm not sure. Not being a `true`fan of either.
I think I would be very impressed however.
Esp the Clay Records bit, but that would require some new player in the Future I feel.
Even if Novak continues to dominate Nadal next year & takes RG, he'll be 25 next year. I agree with the Nadal fans that it won't be as easy for Novak to`shock` everyone next year again.

Records are meant to be broken. Nobody can do anything to prevent that from happening. What's the point of worrying about something that is out of our control? Its up to the future generations to challenge whatever records that were set in the past; just sit back and relax and see who can accomplish what and which record gets broken or surpassed and by whom.

"Records are meant to be broken"

Not according to some Fed fans they're not!
It's all....`relative` of-course, the breaking of records that is.
he-he-he!

luckystar, I'm not worrying about it. I just said I would not like it and I don't want it to happen.

How many years have it been since Laver won his 2nd Clanedar year Grand Slam?
I think it was in 1969, so about 42 years. That's a lot.

Roger was 2 sets away twice. But that's the closest any male player has been in the past 42 years. And players of Roger's talent don't pop up very often.

Of course records are meant to be broken. Records can't go anywhere, either they stau where they are or they are broken. There's only one way to go for records.

But some are harder than others. See example above.

This thread is veering dangerously towards the `weak era` theory again.
It's been done to death already, & neither side shall leave it satisfied or of a changed opinion.
So let's forgo it, shall we?

Yes it's better not to enter in an argument about the supposed "weak era".

But are you saying Laver did it in a weak era or Roger cmae close to it because of the weak era?

Bleck, as I said,
Let's NOT get into it....

Well that doesn't mean that in future, nobody can get the calendar slam, only time will tell. Laver won three of the four slams on grass in 1969. Now that people are saying the surfaces all get slowed down and playing more homogenously who knows, one day somebody may actually win the calendar slam. And who knows, in future there may be a fifth slam during the season so more chances of players getting in more slams and may one day break the slam record! What seems impossible now and in the past may not be impossible in the future.

I have never got into the 'weak era' discussion and I'm not about to now. But I do know it's becoming more difficult today for younger players to break into the top 50 or even 100 which is why it is difficult to spot the next generation of stars who will emerge. Roger was 22 when he broke into the top 10, Murray and del Potro were 20, and both Nole and Rafa were still teenagers.

The following throws some light on the subject:
http://statracket.net/?view=articles/ageandranking2.html

lucky,

Thank you for sticking up for me! What I find interesting is that bleck ignored the fact that the original comment about being petty and spiteful in merely wanting Murray to beat Rafa in slams, came from Sosueme. All I was doing was acknowledging it and agreeing with the sentiment. It is beyond obnoxious to keep saying it like a mantra over and over again.

Regarding the condescending and patronizing comments directed at me about stressing out too much, in lieu of a coherent response to my comments, in bleck's post @ 10:03 am, all I can say is that I am really tired of reading this stuff over and over again. No one here knows how much, if any, stress I am experiencing at any given time. It's presumptuous and insulting to lecture someone on not getting stressed, just because you don't agree with their comments.

I stand by my original comment that it is supreme hypocrisy to now say that slam wins should be distributed among more players, when Fed fans have been quite adamant about wanting him to win everything, all the time, everywhere, every place. Also, again I reiterate my disgust at having to read the spiteful comment about wanting Murray to win, for the express purpose of stopping Rafa. That's not only insulting to Rafa, it's even more insulting to Murray. He is not in this sport simply to stop Rafa and ease the worries of Fed fans about him catching up to his 16 slam wins. He deserves to succeed for himself, for his satisfaction and for his long suffering fans who have showed themselves to be loyal and generous even when he has endured defeats from Rafa. That is class personified.

When Murray wins his first slam, I will be here congratulating him and his fans, whether it comes at the expense of Rafa, or any other top player. It will have been long overdue and well earned. Keep in mind, I don't think like Fed fans. Rafa doesn't have to break every record and win everything in sight for me. He has already done more than enough to establish his greatness and to make me a very happy fan.

As far as the following remark in bleck's post @ 10:17 am, i.e. some people having "thick heads", well all I will say is consider the source!

Roger was 22 when he broke into the top 10, Murray and del Potro were 20
ed251137, 11/10/11 8:25 PM

Roger entered the top 10 at 21. Murray entered the top 10 at 21 also. Check your facts including birth dates of the players.

http://www.tennis28.com/rankings/cons_weeks_top5etal_activ e.html

Read somewhere, and I haven't verified it so don't shout at me if wrong, that And has more points than Hewitt did when he was No 1. If true, must say something about "eras."

@ 10:04 PM OK: give or take a few months. lol.

In fact I was looking at year end rankings not the date of entering top 10 and their age at that moment.

Roger entered the top 10 at 21. Murray entered the top 10 at 21 also. Check your facts including birth dates of the players.

http://www.tennis28.com/rankings/cons_weeks_top5etal_activ e.html
numero, 11/10/11 10:04 PM

numero, on top of the game as always. Well researched and correct, doing homework properly. Well done.

You have obviously been doing your English homework too! A big improvement Fleur. Keep it up.

In fact I was looking at year end rankings not the date of entering top 10 and their age at that moment.
ed251137, 11/11/11 12:03 AM

Sorry still wrong. Roger entered the top 10 on October 14,2002 i.e. about 2 months after he turned 21 so by year's end 2002 he was already top 10. He was #6.

Read somewhere, and I haven't verified it so don't shout at me if wrong, that And has more points than Hewitt did when he was No 1. If true, must say something about "eras."
deuce, 11/10/11 10:22 PM

Doesn't say anything about eras as Pete had in the same range as Hewitt when he was #1 i.e. less than 5000 points. The pointing system changed is all.

@numero, 12:52am, you're correct. The points system was changed quite a few years ago, when everything was doubled. Also, a lot of the smaller tournaments changed from 175 points to 250, and the 250s got doubled to 500, then the MS got doubled to 1,000, and the GS 2,000. It's funny that people look at such stuff to make their players seem to be magical. I suppose a 24 y/o beating a guy pushing 30, who's been trying to recover from mono, has shoulder issues, which he tries to cover up, but still playing without whining about these isues, and not broadcasting it to the whole world, is enough to make his opponent appear magical. lol.

I doubt Roddick will retire as long as he can still win some tournaments. he's won at least two titles every year. thiks year he won one and got to 3 finals. That said, I'd say he'll hang around and hope to win his 2nd Gs at Wimby, which is his heart's desire. Unfortunately, for roddick, hewitt, ferrero, Pete, Agassi , and the guys prior to this wave of top players, the prize money was pittance as compared to what the top guys are receing now. The MS titles bag one-hal mil, and they play less sets. It's easy to see why some of them win so many MS titles, as compared to the older guys. It's true what Laver says, one cannot compare eras, which makes the comparisons and gloating an exercise in futility.

@ed,
You have obviously been doing your English homework too! A big improvement Fleur. Keep it up.

ed251137, 11/11/11 12:31 AM

I've been accused of 'all you do is condemn, criticize and complain", but that was a pot and kettle situation. There are tmany here who do more, which is applauded, as "well said", the differenc being, I don't belong to a pack. However, please tell me, why is it so important to you if someone does not write in the manner you feel they should? I don't get it, why there's so much emphasis on perfection; the double standards here are over the top. It's OK for some to go off topic, to blast and criticize, condemn and complain, not to mention start wars, and forever being in a war. But for others, who are not part of the pack, we get told we're off topic , our posts are too long, and our comments are erased. I don't get it.

@Sienna, 11/10/11 10:01 AM, I agree with you. This is a Fed thread yet the Rafa fans can't help but put him in the mix. I agree with you Bleck is very fair-minded and adds good tennis discussions to this blog that's so Rafa fan dominant.It's funny, we're told to leave rafa threads alone, and leave hiks fans to discuss him, yet we have to put up with the rafa fan s taking over the Fed thread. he he

@bleck, don't let the pack get you down. I agrre with what you say. No one wants their faves' records beaten. Ask the Nadal fans, if they'd want that for him? The answer is NO. It's the reason they applaud when Novak beats Fed to keep Roger from winning more slams and shutting the door on Nadal equalling or surpassing Fed's records. Nadal fans are only fooling themselves also, when they claim they want to see Nole, and Murray winning slams. I'd bet if Nole got to 7 slams and Nadal's still stuck at his 10, there won't be this big-heartedness shown towards Novak if he's inching up closer to Rafa. The big-heartedness would soon disappear and the fangs will come out.

@Bleck,

@bleck, I forgot to say, and I'm laughing that you're getting a good taste of what I've had to battle through. Keep up the good work. hehe

@Sienna, 11/10/11 10:01 AM, I agree with you. This is a Fed thread yet the Rafa fans can't help but put him in the mix. - scoretracker , 11/11/11 4:10 AM

You arrogant fool! This is not a thread about Federer and even Ricky mentioned Rafa the very first paragraph of the article.

?Approach Shots? is Ricky?s weekly look at what?s ahead for FEDERER. Hahaha. Funny, isn't it? Now you see why you are a fool, scoretracker!

I think this is also a Murray thread. We're discussing about Murray until someone brought in Nadal. I think we have only the Fed fans posting on the other Fed thread if I'm not wrong.

scoretracker, You know I find it funny that Sosueme was all shocked when I said that I didn't want Roger's records to be broken but when I asked him how would he feel if djokovic surpassed nadal's GS tally he said he's not sure.

We both know that almost every fan doesn't want their favourite player's records broken. For me it's something normal and obvious so to see all this indignation and all the posts that sosueme and luckystar were able to write concerning this it's mind boggling.

Some nadal fans say they don't care. It's better not to forget that the gap between federer and nadal is the same between nadal and djokovic, 6 GS.
Maybe if djokovic gets closer to nadal we'll start to see if they care or not.


TT posters ratio is about 3 or 4 nadal fans for every federer fan. So yeah we're at a disadvantage. But I like the challenge, although sometimes it's really hard getting through the thick heads of some peopel here.

For the record, sosueme is a Murray fan, NOT a Rafa fan, so he's certainly indifferent towards Rafa or Nole's achievements.

lucky,

Isn't it interesting that someone who presumes to know so much more than the rest of us poor mortals, can't even figure out that Sosueme is a Murray fan?

Oh, and some of us on this site are the ones who are thick headed? Too funny! :)

bleck, who's the thick head here, when you keep insisting that I have to be bothered about Nole surpassing Rafa?? What is so mind boggling? Not everyone, and certainly not me, has to think like you. Please show some respect here, by doubting me about what I said, you're simply insulting! Not everyone has to be so narrow minded about their favorite's achievements, other players can be equally great too! I for one won't 'hero worship' my favorite player.

I also wish for Murray's success, for I like the way Murray can play with so much varieties. I have to say no one active player can play like him. He's just like a magician when his game is on. I'm looking forward to a top form Rafa vs a top form Murray showdown, on all surfaces, also a Nole vs Murray showdown, I believe Murray can hold his ground against these two top guys. I'm also not surprised that Murray may come out the better man in many of these encounters.

numero, 11/11/11 12:47 AM

In my original comment I was generalising about how difficult it is now for players to break into the higher echelons of the rankings compared with a few years ago. I cited Messrs. Federer, Djokovic, Nadal, Murray, del Potro to make my point.

As you so kindly pointed out I was wrong about the exact dates but that still does not alter the fact that they were all very young when they made it into the top 10. Younger in fact than the next generation of future top 10 are likely to be since (apart from Tomic - correct me if I'm wrong again) the rising players are already in their 20s.

Instead of nitpicking about the dates, maybe you could give us your thoughts on this subject.

lucky@10.21, I'm not lighting the blue touch paper and standing well clear, this is a genuine question, based on your comment, and don't answer if you feel it's too incendiary. But do you than feel that Andy, when his game is on, is more of a magician than Fed? Of course, as a Murray fan I do!
I also feel that Andy thinks far too much on court, whereas Fed is far more of an instinctive player, but we've discussed this before, I know.

I remember when some Fed fans were on approach shots a while back and one mentioned Fed, we were told it's a nadal thread.

tut,tut,tut, phoenix, you're so childish with the name calling. glad to know you are not an arrogant fool, only others. BTW, your posts are very much similar to fleur's with the reverse question mark. are you positive your name is actually 'phoenix'. lol.

@bleck, they love to attack enmasse, don't they? I think it's funny that a one on one can't work for them. I see you were referred to as 'you people'. The insults never stop nor the childish name calling. too bad.

Scoretracker: 'why is it so important to you if someone does not write in the manner you feel they should? '

I know what prompted you to ask that question! And for the usual reason I dont propose to elaborate apart from saying that it is not important except when garbled language is being used as a smoke screen.

@phoenix, I was talking about NADAL being put in the mix, but I can't help it if you didn't comprehend. It's the same reason i spell out everything coz some have difficulty comprehending. Now, do you get it??

I forgot to add, at least luckystar got it right @9:49am. She knew I was referring to Nadal being placed in the mix not not Federer. Wanna apologize now phoenix, or have you taken wings and flown away until another rebirth?

Phoenis You are right. But as we say in the netherlands. Even a clock that stands still is right two times a day.

So what= Ricky clearly made this tournement about the Federer v Murray rivalry. He let Djoker not even reach the quarters. Why the Rafafards still have to come on this thread to have a go at bleck is beyond me.
All of a sudden the weakera is out of the closet andback as an issue. Fed in prime would have made every era look weak.
You guys and gals have to deal with that thought. In prime Djoker would not have won a slam, Nadal would only have clayslams etc.....
Without Fed there would have been two or three all time greats from that era. He demolished the era and the players who would have made several more slams.
Witout Fed Nadal probably would not have reached 10 slams. He loses quit often to others. Without Nadal Fed would have had at least 20 slams.
So Rafa is there to keep the slamcount down form TMF. He did it very good. He was the nemesis of Fed but no more no less. He is in the movie to give Fed a hard time. It is not the other way around. Fed is the anamoly the enigma the one that stands out. The others are there to make his quest greater then it already is.

2012 he will be back winning in the slams,,,, it will show that this would be the third generation aganst whom he is winning slams.

deuce, to me Fed is the best shot maker among the active players, but Murray is the best in terms of varieties in his game. He can S&V, counterpunch, junk balling or simply plays aggressively, he just has so much varieties and he can problem solve so well during a match (when he's on).

From what I observe about Fed and his game, I can always tell how he would play in his matches but I simply can't tell how Murray is going to approach his. He can varied his play and he certainly doesn't follow any pattern. Fed, Nole and Rafa, all have their own pattern and after watching them for some time, I can really tell how they're going to play their matches. For Murray, I have to expect the unexpected and I can understand how difficult it is to play against a top form Murray; just ask Roddick, Ferrer, Rafa, Fed and even Nole.

sienna, scoretracker

While you two are on your high horse, go visit the thread about Rafa bailing out of Paris. It was dominated by Fedtards with their over to the max gloating about Federer winning BASEL. One of you might find yourself there.

lucky, thanks for your excellent answer. 'Twas very diplomatic too;)
One reason Andy is so interesting to watch is because in matches you can actually see him working out his opponents. There was one match, forget which, he was facing a mighty server, having no joy. suddenly, the commentator pointed out he's changed his position, moving almost imperceptibly to the left on the deuce court. Result-much joy :) Apparently, in the locker room he spends time watching matches and second guessing where the serve will go. He's right very often too it seems. He does this for fun, lol!

Deuce: I would say Andy easily has the best tennis intelligence of them all. That's when he is awake that is ;-)

Federer relies on his superlative technique and instinct but sometimes seems unwilling to change his game plan when needed.

Rafa used to be able to change his tactics when called for but Lucky is right in saying he has become too predictable of late which is why Nole has been able to outplay him so often in recent months.

Nole has given Jo a walkover.

I finally got online to see some results. Surprises I see.

I agree with luckstar in really wishing that Fed fans would stop telling Rafa fans what we think and how we feel. Right now I am not stressing out over Nole possibly overtaking Rafa in number of slam wins. I really dislike the assumption that should he get into a position to do so, Rafa fans will all have a collective nervous breakdown the way Fed fans when Rafa bested him at the 2008 Wimbledon, 2009 AO, and of course all his victories over him at RG. I don't think the way some Fed fans do. My world will not end if Rafa doesn't equal Fed's slam wins, or if Nole should succeed in surpassing Rafa's slam total. Rafa isn't done yet by a long shot, but whatever happens I will be able to deal with it because my self-esteem and self-worth are not based on Rafa's achievements. I support in victories and losses, no matter what. He does not have to break every record to make me happy. He already has and I am not about to let any Fed fans try and say what I think. None of them know what is in my mind and heart.

Phew, grand words but i remember whenever Nadal lost in the past, there were agonikzing molments such as health issues being magnified by some here, with gnashing of teeth thrown in. However, only Fed fans are guilty of such imperfections, not the holier than thou and perfecto Rafa fans.

Rafa fans don't know what's in the Fed fans hearts whenever Fed loses, yet we're accused collectively of falling apart whenever Fed loses and we hear we're grumpy with everything thrown at us, even the kitchen sink. Nor, should we be refrred to as 'you people'. Are we green martians or something that we should be talked about as 'you people'. who's you people, something diferent from the human race, I'd like to know? Ask hewitt what happenend when he mentioned to the umpire at the USO 'you poeple'. It's amazing that the chief offenders are the ones spouting this righteousness. It's really laughable if it weren't laced with so much hypocrisy.