Berdych is one of those players that can beat one of the top 4 with no surprise but also that often struggles against other decent players (he hadn't won a title since 2009 before triumphing in beijing) although he has been reaching the later stages of the tournaments he has played. So my guess is although he is hot right now he won't make the quarters.


My guess is nadal-ferrer and murray-tsonga (yes going with the seeds lol). And a nadal murray final (why not?!). Murray takes the title.

P.S.: I sure hope you get your predictions right Ricky. I like the outcome of yours better than mine, lol.

Why are you doing this to me, Ricky? You know how much I trust your predictions and now you are telling me that Berdy will beat Rafa? I refuse to think that could be the case...I don't want to jinx Rafa but if he loses to Berdy it will only mean that he is playing BAD TENNIS and that the season can be considered over for him...He was beating Berdy even in those times when Rafa was coming back from the injury in 2009, and you must agree Rafa is playing better than that right now...yes, you will argue that Berdy is on the run and highly motivated to reach WTF, but still Rafa should not let this one slip away...having said this, I am more worried about Nalby or Mayer to that manner...if Rafa passes his first Garcia test then a match with Nalby will be tough...And I love Nalby...he is my second favorite and to see him facing Rafa this early just breaks my heart...but, let's take one match at the time...

Rafa you better play well against Garcia! Please no dispiritedness and also showing some motivation on the court would be great to see...

RickyDImon wants to stir thing up. He is really loading the gun and tries to shed some Rafafavores off from the TT site.

When you do list Rafa as hot he could not be considered losing before semi? Would he. That is terrible nRicky you areon a warspree.
But to list him as being hot after a bagle decider scoring only 2 servicepoints is just a bit strange.
SO maybe he is somewhat lukewarm, then i see him losing in quarters.

All depends whether Andy is still high on adrenaline or absolutely cream crackered!

Nadal is in fine form and listed as "hot," but look who else is in fine form and listed as "hot" -- his quarterfinal opponent

what about Nadal's recent hard-court play suggests he will beat Berdych on this surface? That's a serious question to Nadal fans. Why do you think he will beat Berdych?

I think it's altogether possible that Nadal WILL lose to Berdych in Shanghai. Tomas is on FIRE and the tail-end of the season is never Nadal's best part of the year.

keep in mind that Nadal has to play ARCH NEMESIS Guillermo Garcia-Lopez before he even gets to Berdych!

Ricky, I did bring Garcia into the picture and I do envisage a difficult match...Garcia will most likely end up playing the match of his life as they all tend to do when they face Rafa...but this time around Rafa is ready for him, there will be no more surprises...also, this is Masters 1000 we are talking about, not Bangkok 250...I expect Rafa to show up with little more focus and motivation, don?t you think?

Yeah, and then Rafa has another tough match with Nalby, IMO one of the most talented players ever...it's going to be tricky...Rafa better gets ready for it as it is going to demand his close to the best tennis (because we did not get to see his best tennis this year I would say)...

As for Berdy, he has never been consistent...he is playing great at the moment but I expect the matches he played will be catching up with him as he is not known to be longer-term great...I also expect him to face Tipsy who knows how to make life of his opponents difficult...Tipsy is well rested as he had an early exit in Tokyo and he still has chances for WTF so I expect him to put up a fight...although I see Berdy wining that one it will not be an easy match...I also think Berdy's game suits Rafa...their H2H is 10:3 for Rafa with 8 wins on HC...that is just amazing...and Rafa beat him in Cincy 2009 on his worst surface when he was playing such a poor tennis...I know Berdy is on the run and better player now but Rafa is also better than in 2009...if this was a final we were talking about I would expect Rafa to fight all sorts of demons, but it's only quarters...:)

"I did bring Garcia into the picture and I do envisage a difficult match."

I don't.

"This is Masters 1000 we are talking about, not Bangkok 250...I expect Rafa to show up with little more focus and motivation, don?t you think?"

Yes, I agree. Nadal will crush him.

"Then Rafa has another tough match with Nalby, IMO one of the most talented players ever."

Ever? LOL. And it won't be tough. Nadal and Nalbandian are like best friends. Nalbandian rolls over for him just like the Spaniards.

"Rafa beat him in Cincy 2009 on his worst surface when he was playing such a poor tennis."

That was the old Berdych. This is the new Berdych.

When Nadal is hot snd Berdych is hot then there cannot be any doubt on a serious tennis site that you play the ods? Its a provocation then to let Berdych take the match.

I think Nadal is not hot otherwise he would not have scored a merely 4 points in the decider against Murray.
Are you serious considering Nadal hot after sundays shock?

but of course it is your prdeiction. I just want some insights in why you would let super choker get the better of Rafa? If I had to put my money on that match I would not put it so easiley on Berdyc. (if Nada was really hot)

Nadal isn't on fire by his standards, but he is 12-2 since the beginning of the US Open. Plus I wrote this before the Nadal-Murray match.

Berdych has the EXACT kind of game that troubles Nadal. If he is playing well, there is no reason why he can't win.

And I never said it would be easy, I just think Berdych will win. Of course, I think there is a good chance Tipsarevic takes out Berdych, in which case I would obviously pick Nadal to beat Tipsy.

Nadal's just gotta get by Garcia-Lopez first. What a rivalry!!!

oh ok. but if it was before the final these picks then it is just a litle more provocative. You do know it has been 5 year since Berdych beat Nadal? 9 matches in a row so yep with the words of Soderling no players is going to beat me ten times in a row.

you are a brave man, but I dont think you will put lots of money on the match and that is the main contributor Unibet's objective. ( I know you are totally independent)
So you really think that when it comes to a quarter between Berdych and Nadal, Berdych is gonna win that match? That is where it comes down to when you make those picks. both in the hot section. I think you just wish for an upset or you have not thougth this one trough so long. I donot want to split hairs, but it is a very very long shot to call an upset like that in a prognoses.
and of course Cheryl is there to give couse for your rognoses. But I agree that it is possible but that would not be sufficient (for me that is) to make a prognoses for the upset. It is posible but it would be (still)an upset. I know he is on the decline but not so fast to consider Berdych favorite in a match against Nadal.
Or he should just not be in the hot section.

rafa aint playing his best tennis , agreed. But, he aint losing to tomas, i am sure about that. The way tomas is playing he can pull off the upset but hey, rafa owns him now

unless their first 2 matches show something that I did not see last week, then yes I will pick Berdych to beat Nadal when it comes time for me to preview the match

Nadal over Berdych for sure, and I have to take Murray to win it all after what I witnessed in the Japan Final

One question: can Murray play the way he played for consecutive three weeks?

A Masters event is different from a 500 event; as a player, I would surely want to conserve my energy to win a Masters more so than to win a 500, especially when they're back to back. It's no point fighting for a lost course, might as well reserve my remaining energy for the coming bigger event.

^^^Are you insinuating Rafa tanked the third set? I'm absolutely shocked that this is coming from you. Just give Murray credit and leave it at that. Actually I doubt Rafa does things like that. If he starts to then he'll lose respect and the fans that loved his never-say-die attitude. Besides where is the pride to at least avoid the bagel?

numero,

Rafa does not tank matches! You read things into people's comments that are not there. Lucky did not say anything related to tanking. That is just you putting your biased interpretation on it.

It's quite sad that each time something is being posted, there will be all these questioning from both camps. Why do people think so complicatedly? The key here is ' a lost course'. Do people still remember that Madrid 2009 semifinal that lasted over four hours? Do you think that the finalists of that Tokyo final wanted the same scenario to happen, when next week there's an even more important tournament to play for? From what I saw from the Tokyo final, the losing finalist did try very hard to get at least a game but the winner was TOO GOOD on that day! May I know is this answer acceptable, número? I do not expect them to go on for three four hours and slug it out to win a 500 event, please people be more realistic, had the 'raging bull' fought and slugged all the way to a win in the end ( unlikely to win in my opinion), and fell flat and had to withdraw from Shanghai, his critics would criticize him for being 'stupid', for fighting so hard to win a 500 event at the expense of a Masters event. So either way he would be criticised, if I were him, I would also do the same, try as hard as possible to win at least a game. Knowing there's no way I could win the match, I would not drag on at the detriment of me and my opponent, knowing that both of us had another more important tournament to play for the following week. Isn't that simple logic?

Rafa doesn't tank matches...he would have loved if he won at least a couple of games in the third set but he couldn't...Andy was just too good to be true...but I also agree with lucky that Rafa had to look at the bigger picture...that is how I explain his lack of enthusiasm in the later part of the match...once he was faced with the fact that Murray isn't going to miss a shot at that match Rafa lost his fighting spirit and let it go...it does not mean that he tanked the match...he must have hoped he would win at least one game but Murray obviously didn?t think so...

Ever? LOL. And it won't be tough. Nadal and Nalbandian are like best friends. Nalbandian rolls over for him just like the Spaniards.

RickyDimon , 10/10/11 7:37 PM


keep in mind that Nadal has to play ARCH NEMESIS Guillermo Garcia-Lopez before he even gets to Berdych!

RickyDimon , 10/10/11 5:50 PM


Ricky, make up your mind. One minute you say the Spaniards roll over for Rafa then the next minute you say Garcia-Lopez is Rafa?s ARCH NEMESIS.

nadline, Don't worry nadal has almost the entire spanish armada in his section of the draw. The only one who can stop him from reaching the finals is berdych in the quarters. If nadal beats berdych then ferrer (or whoever reaches the semi) will be no match.

Of course I'm counting on murray or Tsonga to beat nadal in the finals should he reach that stage.

bleck, my question was directed at Ricky. I don't care too much for your opinions on the subject.

I don't think Nalby has ever been an easy opponent for Rafa...they might be friends, but then again Rafa and Murray are friends as well...lol...
It was not long time ago that Rafans were anxious whenever Rafa faced Nalby...to say that they are friends and that Nalby will roll over is really unfair to Nalby...I of course prefer that Nalby does not play his best because I know how dangerous he could be...I for one am able to see the things a little more realistically now and having to face Nalby in the third round is not fun at all...let me just remind you what Cheryl had to say when Nalby faced in-form hot Murray last week...

?This is one of the more intriguing matches on tap for Friday. David Nalbandian is currently ranked 64 in the world, but at any given moment he and his world-class backhand are capable of playing like a top 10 player. Unfortunately for the Argentine, those times don?t happen as frequently as they used to.

Murray also has a fine backhand and decidedly better movement than Nalbandian. The indoor courts suit both players. Nalbandian plays with more pace, Murray with more touch and much better consistency. Murray owns a slight 3-2 edge over the Argentine. Both men can be shot-makers, but Murray?s arsenal is more dependable than Nalbandian?s. The Scot for the win in 3.?

In three, she predicted...so now Nalby is an easy opponent for "not on fire by his standards" Rafa whereas he was a tough one for in-form Murray...speaking of a double standards, ha?

nadline,

" "I did bring Garcia into the picture and I do envisage a difficult match."

I don't.", Ricky 10/10/11 7:37 PM

Read the posts.

Ok I'll explain it to you so just you don't ask what he meant with this "keep in mind that Nadal has to play ARCH NEMESIS Guillermo Garcia-Lopez before he even gets to Berdych!".

Ricky was being IRONIC. Google it!!

Anyone who has watched the Beijing final last week would know that Berdych is playing his best tennis these days. This part of the season, Rafa is always not playing his best tennis. Even in his best years of 2008 and 2010, he hardly won anything after the USO, only Tokyo last year being the exception. As this year is a poorer year for Rafa comparatively speaking, he may carry on with the trend of not winning anything for the rest of the season. I won't be surprised or disappointed should that trend continue.

PS The only time Rafa had won more than one tournament after the USO was during his breakout year in 2005, where he won Beijing Open and Madrid, both on the hard courts.

yes, Ricky was being ironic, but I also thought he was being serious so I revisited my opinion and tried to look at that match from his "supposed" perspective...again, I don't think Garcia will hand it over to Rafa., but I expect Rafa to deal with him in a fine manner...we shall see...I won't be able to watch the match as I have workshop to conduct but I will have a live score option on just to keep truck on Rafa's game and I rely on your comments guys to keep me up to date :)

VAMOS RAFA!

You see, Ricky, this is what I am talking about...Tipsy is hot and in-form while Lopez is far from his decent form yet their h2h is in favor of Lopez and look what happened...the same stands for Rafa vs. Berdy...

natasahao, Since when is GGL a dangerous player?! Nadal leads 2-1 and we know how the match last year unfolded. GGL is 17/24 in matches this year. Nadal will steamroll over him.

And Ricky Tipsarevic is out. Maybe he's suffering from a first title hangover or something. Berdych now has an easier path to reach the quarters.

natashao you seem to be a person who I can talk to and discuss even though we're fans of different players. As for nadline... OMG. Either her husband is a nadal fan or he has a god like patience.

bleck, I haven't been closely following the posts since Sunday, because, I'm not ashamed to say, I was in shock and I've been busy doing other things.


Vamos Rafa

bleck, he is NOT dangerous, but look what is happening...all the hot players from the last week tournaments are struggling: Cilic is at the moment being outplayed by Ramos (?? who the hell is he?), Nalby is being trashed by Mayer, Tipsy and Ljubicic are sent packing...and considering that Garcia won his previous match easily, he will be on fire...I do think he has no arsenal to trouble Nadal, but it won't be an easy match...

natashao, What is not easy to you? GGL taking nadal to 3 sets or just 2 tight sets is difficult. I think nadal will win in straights. It might not be 6-2 6-1 but I think GGL won't take a set.

As for Tipsy, Nalby and Cilic. They are good players but not great players. They aren' as consistent as the top 10 players.

well, I certainly do not expect Rafa to lose a set tomorrow...all the anti-Rafa armada here will play him down if he doesn't win convincingly in straights...when his match evolves in two tight sets (like 7:5, 6:3 or something, that is the definition of "tight" for Rafa) they will all say he was STRUGGLING...and this score is what I mean when I say "difficult"...

Nalby goes out to Mayer - 63 64.

I like the way Mayer plays, especailly today. His style is so special and sometimes hard to read. No wonder a veteran like Nalby finds it difficult to overcome him today. Mayer is a late bloomer, he's playing better now that he has just turned 28.

nadline - i was obviously joking when I called GGL Nadal's ARCH NEMESIS. It's always fun to joke about (and reference in any kind of way) their 2010 Bangkok match.

and yes, Murray can sustain it for another week

Lopez over Tipsarevic is not a big surprise. Lopez is not in that bad form and Tipsarevic's hot streak ended in Kuala Lumpur. He is tired and content with his season. He also has no London chance, so I expect Tipsy to mostly mail it in the rest of the way.

Nadal vs. GGL preview - http://tennistalk.com/en/previews/20111011/Nadal_opens_in_Shanghai_wit h_a_shot_at_Garcia-Lopez

@RickyDimon , 10/11/11 3:29 PM

I see.

nadline: I recall a lot of us predicting this year would probably be a write-off - and that was way back at mid-point in the season! It is inevitable there will be some lean years in even the best players CV because there will always be up and coming players having their break out year, or near veterans having a stellar year late in their career.

Rafa has always been philosophical about his losses and this year is no exception. We have to keep faith that he will regroup and come back stronger than ever to face the new challenges in the coming year.

^^^I hope he does. He needs tobe more positive in his outlook not say things like to repeat what I did last year is impossible, or words to that effect.

I also don't like it when he says stuff like "I am going to have to play PERFECT to even have a CHANCE."

He says stuff like that even before matches in which he is heavily favored to win!

Ricky, Nadal just likes being the underdog. He doesn't like to deal with pressure. When he was the defending champion in RG he always said that roger was the favourite to win because he was number 1, go figure.

Nadal is GOAT in downplaying his chances. I have never seen or hear one of the so called greats of tennis trying to relief pressure the way he does. Either by himself or his team.
For me he stays a big manchild and that is the primairy reason I think he has not fully developed as a person.
He always had the safeguard of his team never he has been the one who was fully in the driverseat. Always low profile and playing down his chances.
It was understandable the first few year (he was so young) but where other players learn to become men he could (benefit?) by being in the shadow for 4 year behind Roger and stil get some slam wins under the belt. So he never saw any problems in the place where he was. Now it is up to him the gauntlet is thrown and I think the only way he would be able to return to his place is to do total different thing. He should become a man and take control of his destiny. Or T should step back and let him figure out for himself. Somethingsgottogive. He alone can decide if he really wants to get back to#1. But of course itisvery hard andmaybeit is a mission impossible. It is not aboutchasing down impossible balls, butamindset chance that demands the ultimate sacrifice (familytyre's). And he is to nice a guy to make the right choice. It really is shakespearian stuff. You laugh at me but it is.

Except clay
Successive victories 0
If grass and a hard court are fast in the former state
Nadal can win the victory only with clay.


all slow court now, sick really

Interesting pre-tournament interview with Rafa:

http://www.shanghaimasters1000.com/English/news/28/751.html#

3 BP saved by GGL in opening game. Remind anyone of something?!

yep! - belongs on Nadal-GGL thread though

This one is for you, sienna.........................Mr. Douglas Perry (an unapologetic Fedfan if ever there was one), is picking your beau du jour (Rafa), as 2012's year end #1..................and he has some interesting reasons to back up his pick.....

http://blog.oregonlive.com/tennis/2011/10/rafael_nadal_no vak_djokovic_an.html


Needless to say, I agree with him!

Has Berdych pulled out? It says so in the Order of Play.

No he has not. And no it doesn't.

It does on this link, the official website:

http://www.shanghaimasters1000.com/English/game/racing/liv e/13.html

Singles Round 3
F.Lopez ESP def.
T.Berdych CZE (7)
RET.

nice investigative reporting, nadline.

Thanks.

so Berdy HAS retired if this order of play is to be trusted and I see no reason why not...I told you he would be tired and won't beat Rafa...but did not see this coming...good for Feli though...

This is very reminiscent of 2009 for this tournament. Not good. Retirement, walkover, blah blah..............

Wait that web site is screwed up. On the home page it shows Berdych vs. BYE for the match so did Lopez retire? Very confusing!

mystery

Nadal got lucky. I think in his current form, had he played Tomas, he'd be the loser. Of course, Lopez will be rolling over for Nadal, which means Rafa l will be in the SFs. Both top seeds have got lady luck on their side at Shanghai.

I don't think Berdych has withdrawn. He is listed to play today, in the schedule of play. Also the commentators did not announce any withdrawal news about Berdych, and they shown here that he's scheduled to play after that Rafa vs Mayer match, but not before 8pm local time.

lucky,

There seems to be some misunderstanding or confusion. The tennis channel is showing the matches now and Berdych was listed to play. I did not hear anything from the commentators about him withdrawing. I have been checking in on the tennis channel every now and then to see if there has been any update on any possible withdrawal by Berdych.

Ricky, Almago/Roddick was a pretty decent match. It was good to see Roddick string some matches together. I hope he gets past Ferrer, but not repeat his performance v. Nadal at the USO. This time I hope Andy is the winner.

Berdych is playing today. Sky still has him playing the last match.

The draw on the official site even had Lopez already in the Qtrs last night. Very strange. Unfortunately, the ATP website is not loading on my laptop, can't think why. Is anyone else having problems logging into it?

I haven't tried to log onto the ATP site yet. I don't understand why they would have listed him as withdrawing. I am watching the tennis channel here in the states and they are showing Ferrer/Ferrero now. They listed Berdych as playing and I did not hear anything to indicate he would not play.

I just tried to log in to the official site and it's not loading on my laptop, either. Maybe they are having some kind of problem with their website.

Ricky, why don't the matches of some players and the comments on those threads get into the lineup. Are only select plyaers' matches featured?

Thanks, NNY.

scoretracker - what?

@Richy, what? I posted a comment on this thread because I couldn't find one for Roddick's match. I'm not very familiar with finding things on this site. However, I subsequently found the thread in question, and posted my comments on it. Please disregard my question. Thanks.

Matches of some players and the comments on threads about Federer are censored in here...didn't you know? ;-)

Mayer's win dedicated to everyone on this thread who laughed when I picked Nadal to lose before the semis

I did not...this is one of the rare times that I agreed with your prediction regarding Rafa, Ricky. I just did not want to voice out my pessimism. But now that it's done, I'm not at all that sad. I started looking forward to 2012 right after the USO. Next year promises to be exciting tennis with the "true" top 3 slugging it out for supremacy.

I didn't laugh at you Ricky,
Well, not this time............

Ricky,

I wasn't laughing. You actually picked Rafa to get to the quarterfinals. I think Rafa is really just not in a good place now. Like phoenix, I didn't want to voice my own doubts. I think Rafa needs a break.

phoenix,

You are my hero. You know just what to say and how to say it at times.

phoenix, You might get a surprise from a player in the current top 3 next year.

RickyDimon you cheeky Devil....
You said Rafa was hot and let him lose to Berdych?
And hot not in hot like nadaline falls for him, but hot that he is ona roll and is in a good Rafa mood. Then a player is hot when he is in his best possible shape. So Rafa listing as hot was maybe a litle over done. You already explained that you made that topic before the final but still letting a hot Rafa losing to Mayer now(?) was a litle controversial thinking if I may add.

@bleck
Yes I am so looking forward to 2012. It promisses to be a great year for Fed. Of course it was the magistical podyear from Djokovicto keep him out of 2 slamfinalsotherwise he would have had a ball. But I am not claiming that it is his godginenright to win those matches, but he csould have won atleast 1 and with that a 17 slam or as I like to call it 22nd major.

Discuss:

should Nadal be in the COLD section for Paris?

I didn't think Rafa was playing in Paris.

he blows hot nor cold. For my liking. But there is exactly where you should have left him. You have certainly often enough not qualified Roger as hot or cold many a times. When you are uncertain or do not know....But I am not the one who is telling you boyz and gals how to run the show. Just expressing my views.
And those are that a hot Nadal is not likely to loose against Berdych. I was under the impressions that most of teh people on this site are agreeing with that.
Stil a hot Nadal could lose of course but I would not let him then lose in a forecast against and Berdych or Myer. Or you think he is the underdog .

of course Nadal is playing in Paris

Of course! The way he looks now I don't know that Paris is going to be any better. He is clearly struggling.

Let's just suffice to say that I would not put him in the hot section for now.

Isn't it time for a new poll given the results of this one are nowhere near reality?

yes

Rafa himself knows he is not hot. lol.

Rafa has never been one to talk himself up and he is always painfully honest about his failures.

I have been looking for a YouTube clip (without success) when Rafa was interviewed by the BBC after his exit from WTF '09. He was asked about his year and said: 'this year my game has been a little bit up and down'. After a slight pause he shrugged the shoulders, the eyebrow went up, and with a wry smile he added: 'well, mostly down'.

Yes please Ricky, put Rafa in the cold section for Paris, he can only get hotter which he needs to be.

As for the poll, I think some people stuffed it with Rafa votes to jinx him and it's worked. On the other hand, it looks like people are making a mockery of the polls.

I agree with Numero.
Has Rafa ever even WON an indoor event?
It's absurd!

Rafa won Madrid in 2005 when it was an indoor tournament.

I have a suggestion for a new poll given Murray's recent success :

How long will it take Andy Murray to surpass Rafael Nadal in the ATP rankings?

A) Miami 2012
B) WTF 2012
C) Some time during 2013
D) When Nadal retires

I'd vote for A.

That's not even funny numero :-((

yes nadline in 5 sets after being 2 sets to love down to ljubicic.

numero, don't forget murray has a final to defend in the AO while nadal has a quarter. I would choose B, lol.

Murray over Ferrer.....told you so

D

I must be the 2.1% and I claim my TT rosette now.

That's right, who knows. Maybe it's none of the above. Seems like a mulitple choice question and answer session here. I'm more interested in seeing who gets to Ye no.3 this year, that's more interesting, as this may be the year when Murray finish the year as no.3 for the first time.

yes nadline in 5 sets after being 2 sets to love down to ljubicic.

bleck , 10/14/11 3:03 PM

bleck, you asked a question and I gave you the answer. I was not trying to prove anything. However, since you said it, it's even more impressive to come from two sets down to win on your worst surface against a big server.

there's nothing impressive about being 2 sets down to Ljubicic!

I just said that to show that hardcourt indoors are in fact nadal's worst surface relatively speaking and nadal's results aren't that great as a whole (a couple of finals and the madrid title).

@

Ricky, it's very impressive if you are a 19 year old playing a 26 year old big server on your worst surface.

RickyDimon , 10/14/11 6:10 PM

Except to Muzz fans, this Masters is quite boring. Who could have predicted Kei and Murray battling it out and 2 Spaniards sans Rafa going at it? Maybe the final will be watchable.

Don't bet on it,
Unless Andy does one of his weird walkabouts,
This turkey has already been stuffed!

I don't expect Andy to have any trouble with the likes of Nishikori, or even Lopez or Ferrer, for that matter.

this tournament is over

@numero, boring indeed. Murray has had 2 cakewalk draws back to back, Bangkok and Shanghai. His QF opponent is ranked so low, it's laughable. I don't expect Neishikori to put up any type of resistance coz he's had to battle tougher opponents and could be tired. Ferrer should beat Lopez then go down like a lamb to Murray from exhaustion. They should have given the trophy to Murray at the end of the QFs.

Scoretracker: your comment that Neishikori and Ferrer will lose to Murray because they are tired/exhausted is insulting to Murray.

Apart from god-given natural talent and unrelenting hardwork, the essential qualities for being a great champion are stamina and the will to win. This is what separates the big boys from the rest of the field.

This era is has been remarkable for the consistency of the four players who have dominated the rankings for the past five years and are still jostling for position. When, if ever, has that happened in the Open Era i wonder.

In that time a number of players have been heralded as future No.1s but apart from del Potro so far nobody has come near to upsetting the applecart. There are bucketloads of talent around but I challenge anyone to be able to predict the names of the four players who will emerge to replace the elite group we now have.

@ed, I'm not reying to be insulting to Murray, it's facing realiky. I guess you don't subscribe to the fact that draws make it easier for some people to get to the finals while others don't? Just look at the players Ferrer, Lopez and Nishikori had to beat and then tell me if their paths weren't tougher, hence they'd be exhausted. Ferrer got a bye, but not Nishikori and Lopez, which means, they've both played one more match than Ferrer and Murray. Ferrer had a tough match with JCF and Roddick. he should be tired at the finals when he faces Murray.

The draws make it difficult for the lower-ranked players tolbreak through. At the GS level, they have to beat a top 10 in R16, then a top 4 in the QF, then another top 4 in the SF, and another in the finals. Unless they get lucky and others take out the top 4 players, breakthrough is extremely difficult. It's the reason the top 4 are able to maintain their positions coz the draws are top 4 friendly.Ask Becker he'll tell you why only the top 4 in this era will win slams.

Of course the draw plays a pivotal role but the higher ranked players have often said they have problems playing against a lower players in the early rounds and have to fight hard for the win. You can argue till the cows come home how much luck plays a part but over a period of time it tends to even out for everybody.

The point I wanted to make was how consistent a player has to be to work his way up and then stay at the top of the pile. Remember Nadal, Djokovc and Murray all achieved this while still very young in spite of very stiff competition and at the time TMF was at the height of his powers.

Oh my goodness Murray gets a cakewalk again complains Scoretracker!
What kind of parallel universe must one inhabit for a Federer fan to whine on & on about any other player getting it easy the way she does!?!
Honestly,
What a BUFFOON!
Oh & had Roger decided to show up & make the final against Andy, it would still be an open, easy draw for Murray. And that we all know..

^^^Hey them's fightin' words! This may be settled at WTF.;)

This whole business about cakewalk draws is nonsense. Rafa fans have heard it all the time when he wins. It's called being a sore loser. What is Murray supposed to do? It's not his fault that Rafa and Berdych lost early. He plays the players that get through. Simple as that.

Fed has had his easy draws, so his fans shouldn't complain when it happens to others. It's just the way of things. It doesn't take away from the fact that Murray has won Bangkok, Japan and now has a shot at completing an Asian slam.

It's a cheap tactic to try to demean other player's wins. Murray can't control the draw. All he can is come out and play his best and beat his opponents. That is precisely what he has done.

Should he win the final, this Rafa fan is not about to trash his victory.

Sosueme: for 'she' read 'he'.

Scoretracker: I am not familiar with Becker's theory - perhaps you will enlighten me - and I am not sure why you say it is more difficult to breakthrough in this era than say five or six years ago.

In my first comment I specifically said ONE of the essential ingredients to reach and stay at the top is stamina which so far the much heralded newcomers have not displayed. The multiple records held by Federer are testimony to both his extraordinary level of fitness and near immunity to fatigue. I dont ever recall people citing exhaustion as the reason when he has lost in a final.

Nadal's much more physical style of play has occasionally been responsible for losses after punishing SFs.or back to back tournaments. But who can ever forget the AO final when, after the titanic struggle with Verdasco the night before, he faced a much fresher Federer and still won. That was stamina combined with willpower - the two attributes which seem to have temporarily deserted him.

For several years Djokovic was famous for wilting when the the going got tough but post the USO 2008 spat with Roddick on the subject of MTOs he cleaned up his act and since then has shown a very high level of both physical and mental stamina culminating in his amazing run of wins this year. Considering how many tough matches he plays every year he has also remained remarkably free of serious injuries.

Which brings us to Andy. Nobody can question his committment to physical fitness and his stamina in the big tournaments and Slams. However, like Rafa, he is prone to some repetitive injuries which can rear their head at crucial moments. However his mental stamina has been another matter. It is early days to say he has conquered his demons but there are signs he is bringing them under control.

I would be interested to know who you think will be the next clutch of players capable of matching the achievements of the above four.

I don't happen to think we will see an era like this any time soon. Rafa and Fed have set the bar incredibly high. Their consistency is what make them great. To dominate the slams for as many years as they did is unlike anything we have seen.

It is true that Nole came into his own this year and showed his own dominance. However, Delpo has shown signs that he is almost back to his best form, if he can remain injury free. Berdych is still in the mix and Cilic has shown great improvement. Now that Murray has shown signs that he may have overcome his own mental issues and may be ready to finally win his first slam in 2012, I think the men's game will be very competitive.

We know who the young guns are - Raonic, Tomic, Dimtrov, Dolgo, Harrison. They will most likely not break through at the moment, given the dominance of the top four players. They have provided us with a glimpse of the future.

"Cilic" bwahahaha. I almost just spit out my gatorade!

Ricky,

What is so funny about mentioning Cilic? You don't think he has any prospects ever in tennis?

There are several players nudging 30 in the top 10 so some of the young guns could be top 10 in 2012 and almost certainly by 2013. I expect Federer and Fish to be out of top 10 by end 2012 or latest by end 2013. Ferrer is another guy likely to be out of top 10 by 2013 end. Almagro also could be ousted by the young guns from the the top 10 as he seems to be strong only on clay.

That's an interesting point holdserve. In fact when you look at the top 50 there are a quite a few veterans who will reach the end of their shelf life in the next year or so.

Native - it's just that you mentioned him in the same paragraph as DJOKOVIC, DEL POTRO, and BERDYCH!

Ricky,

Okay, now I get your point. However, I did not mean to say that he was in their class. I understand why you were so shocked. It can be misinterpreted. However, in no way would I specifically include Cilic with the likes of Djokovic, Delpo or Berdych!

Perhaps I should have started a new sentence and made it clear that Cilic has some potential, but is a work in progess.

Gotcha.

I mostly agree with that, but let's keep in mind that Cilic is on the way DOWN. He was once Top 10!

Ricky,

No argument there.

Thanks.

NNY: Berdych, like Soderling, has a hot streak from time to time but then takes a dip. They both lack the consistency to reach and remain at the top. I'm not sure that del Potro is able to maintain his highest level for long stretches at a time either - although of the three he is more likely to be the one to oust one of the current top four.

ed,

Thanks for weighing in with your thoughts! I agree with your comments.

I left a quick message for you on the other thread where you-know-how started the usual nastiness. I am going to get some sleep tonight and will have to catch up on the results tomorrow.

Take care! :)

What did I write! It's supposed to be you-know-who! I guess it really is time to go to sleep. It's 2:15 am!

So it's not goodnight from me, but good morning! :)