Enough is enough, law of averages catches up with Djoko and he bows out before the final. This is ridiculous. Superhuman tennis. Please give others a chance Djoko!

Aww, now Djokovic wont win, since Ricky's picked him to :)

Tsonga vs Cilic first round is ridiculous. I'd give the edge to Cilic too, especially if Tsonga's injured.
Also would be thrilled if Simon reached the semis, but I don't see it happening.
And I think Murray will reach the quarters at least.

I think you are writing off Andy M too soon.....................I expect him to make the semis.....isn't Tsonga carrying an injury and Ferrer hasn't had much match play........

I'm liking Fed and Isner in Cinncy. Joker is going to have a let down....and can't wait for Roddick-K'shriber rematch!

Rafa, pleassssssssseee take this one, pleassssssssseeeeeeee!

I think Djoko will exit before the finals at Cincy. He will want to be fresh for USO and more importantly, he will not want the unnecessary pressure of the invincibility streak which the media will put on him if he were to win Cincy.
His main goal is to win the USO.
Much though I would like Rafa to win, I think it will be Federer or AndyM at Cincy.

I don't see Nole exiting early in Cincy. Winning breeds winning. He will want to stay on a role right through to the USO. I don't see him getting tired. I also don't see anyone in his draw who could stop him before the semis. If Fed gets by Delpo, then he should meet Nole in the semis. He will want to do well here after his disappointing early exit to Tsonga at Montreal and also given the fact that he is the defending champion.

Murray does have a really tough draw, but I have to believe that he will be motivated to do much better after his surprising loss to Anderson. If Tsonga's injury is okay, then he could be a big challenge. However, if not Tsonga then Murray could face Cilic, who beat Delpo in Montreal. Ferrer, Simon and Tipsy could also test Murray. It depends on whether the real Murray shows up. I have to believe that he will want to do well at Cincy. I just don't see Simon getting through, unless Ricky knows something I don't.

Rafa should not have any problems until a possible quarterfinal matchup with Fish. I can't see why Fish wouldn't get through. He just got to the finals at Montreal and gave Nole a great match. His confidence should be high and his form is great now. He was a finalist last year at Cincy against Fed. He could give Rafa a tough match, but I think Rafa will get to the semis. I am just not sure who he will meet. If Murray gets his act together, he certainly could be there. I know that Rafa will want to have a good result here after the loss to Dodig in Montreal. He needs match practice. This tournament has not been kind to Rafa, but if he can manage to play the way he did for a set and a half against Dodig and keep up that level, then he could do well here.

Rafa seems to be in a good mood no matter what :) ...and Nole just proved he is human by giving Fish a set and numerous break points in the Final which Nole was expected to take in an easy manner...Rafa should do better in Cincy and we sure EXPECT him to...I wonder if Uncle Toni arrived to USA..I just like seeing him on the stands...I also expect AndyM to do better in Cincy...he likes fast surfaces...well, at least both Andy and Rafa can not do worse than last weak...:)

Nole looked very beatable today. He did not play nearly as well as he did against Tsonga. Also, he showed how playing aggressive, serving and volleying, going to net and taking time away from Nole, can pay off.

Other players should take note!

The main difference between Nole and other players is that Nole is like the Rafa of old, he just doesn't lose focus till the last point is played. So he looking beatable makes no difference to the outcome as he is not beatable.

rafaelite,

Did you see the match? Because if you did, then you will know what I meant when I said Nole looked beatable. Fish put a lot of pressure on him and took him out of his rhythm and didn't let him dictate points. Nole wasn't serving well at all today and Fish was able to hang with him in baseline rallies. He played intelligent tennis and managed to make a match out of it. Unfortunately, Fish did get broken and one time was all Nole needed.

It is true that Nole is now winning matches when he is not playing his best. Fed and Rafa have done that throughout their careers. When you have only lost one match all year, you get to believe that you will somehow manage to win, no matter what.

I disagree about Nole not losing focus until the last point. He was completely rattled in that second set. He was throwing his racket and yelling. At 5-3 Fish ahead, Nole just unraveled to get broken at 0-40! How often have we seen that this year? That gave Fish the set and evened the match. So for a time, Nole went off track, but got himself together in the third set. I think Fish had no pressure on him going into this match and that helped him stay strong and play fearlessly.

I do not agree that he is unbeatable. Fed didn't think that way when he played him in the semis at RG and Nole was on his winning streak. You can't think that way going into the match, because that means you have lost before the first ball has been struck.

Murray was serving for the match in Rome, but choked it away. He also used aggressive tactics, taking returns of serve very early to throw Nole off. We even saw Rafa use aggressive tactics at IW, going to net and not being content to try to outhit Nole from the baseline.

If Rafa, Fed and Murray are to believe that Nole is unbeatable, then what's the point of even trying?

NNY, it is easier said than done (ie beating Nole). Fed remains the only one to have beaten Nole this year but the problem is, Fed hinself gets beaten these days before reaching the semis to face off against Nole. Rafa? Until he approaches his matches with calm, I really can't count on him to beat Nole (I know many Rafa fans will scream at me here, but to me that's the truth these days until Rafa proves it otherwise). Murray? Unless he puts in the effort, he'll fail again most likely. Tsonga? Unless he's physically at 100% and playing out of his mind and minus all those UEs. Delpo lacks the stamina, Cilic not there yet; Sod and Berdych or even Bellucci? Unless they hammer down big serves and big forehands consistently non stop for the whole match. So, unless Nole himself is tired physically ( which seem unlikely these days as he's smart enough to have proper rest between tournaments), or mentally, it's hard to see anyone beating him, unless they played out of their mind, fearless and top of their game tennis.

NNY,
I agree that he looked beatable. But the crux of the problem facing his opponents is that he is not beatable.
I watched only the final set and bits and pieces of the first two.
Let me amend my statement. The great player might have dips in focus but when it matters, he focuses and wins the important points. Which is what Rafa used to do.
I do believe that Djoko now has the same mental domination over the field as did Fed in his heyday. And Rafa seems so cowed down that I think a lower ranked player who has nothing to lose is more likely than Rafa to win against Nole.
Somebody here said that Roger is motivated by animosity when playing Nole. That may help Fed.
I don't think AndyM is scared and if that chap is consistent, he has the best chance of beating Nole.
Let us hope he is on Djoko's side at USO.
I want Rafa to win.

Ricky, nice to see "Approach Shots" back :) Don't always agree with yer, but always enjoy reading what you say.
I see you haven't even put Andy in the "cold box." I'd agree, he's in the freezer at the mo. :(

lucky,

I don't quarrel with your breakdown of the various players and their chances against Nole, however I do still believe that they at least have to believe they can do it, otherwise there would be no point in taking the court against Nole at all.

At some point Rafa will meet Nole and either conquer his doubts and fears once and for all, or get another painful loss. I am not counting on it right now. Rafa needs more match play and to get into better form. For now he needs some wins and matches under his belt. The further he goes at Cincy the better for his preparation for the USO.

It just may be an unlikely player who ends up beating Nole. Fish gave it a great shot today, but couldn't pull it off. I thought it might be Delpo, but it is true that he has not yet regained his best form and fitness level. Sod is out with a wrist injury, Roddick is just coming back from injury and Berdych has not been at his best this year.

I do agree that it's easier said than done. Fed may have the best chance, but as you said, he has to get there to meet him. I don't think Fed ever sees anyone as unbeatable. If Murray can get it together, he certainly has the game to do it. I just don't think he is in great form yet. We will see.

And I will say it again - if all the top players believe that Nole is unbeatable, then how can they go on the court and play him? If you think that way, then it's over before it ever started.

This is Nole's best surface, so if he was winning on clay and grass then I guess one can assume that he will continue his winning ways. I just hope to see some competitive tennis in Cincy and the USO.

Hey Ricky, just out of curiosity, what made you put Gilles Simon in the hot category? Sure he won Hamburg...on European clay. He went out the first round in straight sets to recovering Philip Petzschner on North American hard courts.

rafaelite, Rafa was said to be unbeatable going into the AO in January and look how many matches he's lost this year even though sickness and injury account for some of them. I don't think Nole is unbeatable, the stars are lined up for him this year there is no double about that bu just as you can toss six heads in a row so con you toss six tails in a row.

Rafa is playing more exciting tennis than Nole at the moment, Nole is playing safe, keeping the ball in play most of the time which has worked for him but that doesn't mean that he is unbeatable. Rafa just needs to concentrate more and maintain his serve throughout the match and he'll be there.

Honestly, when he was playing Dodig on Wed. I felt like smacking him around the ear to stop faffing about when he had umpteen chances to put the match away and he kept messing up.

corr.
I don't think Nole is unbeatable, the stars are lined up for him this year there is no doubt about that but just as you can toss six heads in a row so can you toss six tails in a row.

Rafa was said to be unbeatable going into the AO in January
nadline, 8/15/11 11:19 AM

By whom? You? Did you forget he had lost to Roger at WTF and ND at Doha? Not to mention Melzer at Shanghai and GGL in Thailand. Unbeatable my foot!

"................my foot!"
numero
, 8/15/11 2:19 PM

It's in your mouth, numero.....................where it normally resides..........

@numero , 8/15/11 2:19 PM

That's gratitude for you. Rafa eased off at the WTA because Roger was struggling to win titles and that's what you get from his fans. Rafa was sick in Doha. ALL the experts said Rafa was unbeatable for the foreseable future after the USO, maybe you hear what you want to hear.

numero, where were you when Rafa was expected by EVERYONE to win the Grand Slam this year? You couldn't have been paying attention.

Ricky, please, yet another final lost to Nole? Is that what you foresee for Rafa? I don't think that is going to happen. IF, with huge IF, Rafa reaches finals he will definitely win Cincy whoever on the opposite side...I bet on it! There is no way he will lose it to Nole, although I think Nole will not even be in the finals...unless he is superhuman, super-rested and has super-short & easy matches...

Rafa was said to be unbeatable going into the AO in January
nadline, 8/15/11 11:19 AM

By whom? You? Did you forget he had lost to Roger at WTF and ND at Doha? Not to mention Melzer at Shanghai and GGL in Thailand. Unbeatable my foot!

numero , 8/15/11 2:19 PM

According to numero who is a great believer in the power of multiple IDs to spread false ideas like he does regarding Fed and Rafa, it would appear that all the hoopla in the media about prospects of the Rafa slam were all the work of nadline and nobody else thought Rafa was going to win the AO! She assumed several IDs, some of them of former tennis greats and famous commentators as well as popular tennis writers, to create the buzz.
nadline, you are truly extraordinary!

Oh by the way does anybody know whether numero is a guy or a girl? Must be a lonely retired person with nothing to motivate him/her in life except hatred of Rafa.

Actually, rafaelite, we are supposed to be one and the same person - Rafaelite Nadline. numero is in denial that Rafa is seen as one of the greats by everyone except numero that's why he thinks I'm making it up when I say people thought Rafa was unbeatable going into the AO.

Numero is juat an ignorant racist!

nadline, numero now thinks I am holdserve. So unless he thinks you, me and holdserve are the same, which I wouldn't rule out, there is a chance he doesn't think I am you! What a pity!
I don't know who holdserve is but I do know that numero is brokenserve apart from being a broken record.

Here's a version of an earlier poem on numero ( he seems to be my muse)
A broken serve can never ever
Win you a game or set
Numero the broken serve
Is a loser, you bet!

holdserve/rafaelite,

I'm all man! Not old or retired either.

jean,

How did you arrive at the conclusion that I was racist?

numero, whether you are old and retired or not you are definitely a broken serve, viz a loser. And a broken record because you always repeat the same lies about Rafa through your multiple IDs.

Last year Rafa underperformed in both Montreal and Cincy to the extent I dont think many people believed in his chances of finally winning the USO. Then he burst into life at Flushing Meadow with his new improved service and I began to harbour the suspicion that maybe it had been a deliberate smoke screen designed to lull the competition into a false sense of security.

OK that was last year and so far this year he has shown little of his old indomitability. It's as if his spirit was broken when he got injured at the AO and lost the chance to achieve the career Grand Slam. But we have seen him fight back - most notably after his disastrous 2009 season - and, unless there are injuries we dont know about, we will see him fight back again. But I have to agree with Lucky's assessment that it's probably unlikely to be this year.

The million dollar question now is how long can Djokovic sustain his current level of intensity and cope with the pressures which come with being No.1, i.e. increased media attention, demands to fullfill sponsor committments, working the US chat show circuit, not to mention being the unofficial roaming Serbian ambassador in every country he visits. For the moment he is revelling in being in the limelight and is lapping up all the attention but inevitably this will take its toll and he will need to find the right balance between his private life, his public life and his tennis career.

Gotcha again holdserve aka rafaelite:

You're the only one who uses the word "viz" on here. HAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

My only ID here is numero. You can't say the same.

Speaking of fake ID's my sweets, I hope I managed to send the `Victor/IluvAndy/ProbablyManyOthers` packing once and for all!
When he attacked me recently as the suprisingly resurrected `Iluvandy` (where he previously pretended to be a sweet little Andy fan girl), he was not at all sweet (no sir!) but was this time in a real tizzy with all the swearing etc.
It took me aback slightly & reminded me disitnctly of Norman Bates at the end of Psycho!
You know, when he jumps out in his mothers wig with a large knife!!!!
Very, Very creepy.....
If I have, however, sadly failed to eliminate this imbecile, I'm going straight down to the store to get me a stiff broom and some good old Anti-Victor spray.
That should do the trick....

HAHAHAHAHA
holdie get away. You promised us that you would not post here again when I am around.
Well I am still here and you have brougth nothing new to the table.
Try to give us some scientific proof for the fast and swift rise and decline of Rafa?

rafaisthebest, 8/15/11 2:59 PM,

Now that was a brilliant comeback from you! Keep up the good work! You are giving me so many laughs! Love it! :)

nadline, 8/15/11 3:12 PM,

Girl, you are on fire today! This one was one of your best! I can't stop laughing! Keep it going! :)

Oh numero , I would like to know holdserve who according to you is the inventor of a language with words like moron and viz. But I thought they were in common use.Like Tolkien in lord of the rings holdserve seems to have invented an elven language which has been studied by the elven scholar numero.
As for sienna, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I don't think I have ever had any conversation with you in the past? Are you Fleur or numero? Or rfzr?

Ok holdserve/rafaelite,

Won't admit that you've been busted and denying until the end. Reminds me of :
"See that glove doesn't fit" lol. Doesn't speak well of your character.

Sienna,

I guess she just couldn't keep away whether you're here or not.

numero, I joined this site to talk about tennis not to carry on interminable conversations with old retired persons about alleged multiple Ids. I mean I have nothing against old men but god ,if you want company for your irrelevant talk, you should stay in an old people's home.
As for Sienna, I have absolutely no idea what scientific theory she is trying to sell. She seems to be a looney and the right place is a looney bin and I am sure she can find takers for her weird ideas, scientific or otherwise.
Why did you guys join tennistalk? Did they market themselves as a haven for oldies and loonies? Maybe they did. Can't otherwise account for the continued presence of tennisnba who is spamming. What a site won't do for marketing dollars!

ed - I think Nole can handle all the pressure and attention a no.1 player would get. He enjoys the limelight and attention showered on him. To me he's a bit like Fed, enjoying the success and the high life that comes with it. He's more like Fed than Rafa where this is concerned. Rafa is one that enjoys his quiet and peaceful life with his family and friends, regardless of his own success. Rafa would perform his duties as a no.1 well but he's more interested to be with his family and friends, enjoying his other sports or hobbies, like soccer, golf and fishing more than enjoying the high life.

For Nole, I think it's the coming down from no.1, losing the attention and the accompanying limelight that will be hard to cope for him.

"For Nole, I think it's the coming down from no.1, losing the attention and the accompanying limelight that will be hard to cope for him."

this made me laugh really. you are just clutching the straws.

@3:17 am: You're right. They do both attach more importance to the status and aura of being No.1 than RN ever did. There is a thesis waiting to be written on the subject of the concomitant stresses of success and failure in tennis.

Are you as bored as I am by some of the people around at the moment peddling their spurious arguments and attempts to disrupt every conversation with irrelevant, childish jibes?

ed - yes I'm bored with all these jibes.

rfzr - can you explain why and what is clutching at straw? The coming down from no.1 or the losing the attention and the limelight? So you think Nole won't come down from no.1 in say three years or five years time? Or you believe he's OK when he lose his no.1 ranking when somebody else takes over from him? Do you know him enough to answer these questions?

ed, actually thought Nole was partying too hard b4 Montreal and wouldn't do so well! Ha ha on me! Fed fans always appear on this site when Rafa is not doing so well and then fade like snow in Summer when he recovers his form, which I suspect he will do for USOpen. BTW read a very interesting Bleacher saying if Rafa and Andy are on opposite sides of the draw, one of them will win. But if they are on the same side Nole will win. Interesting? However, this WAS b4 Montreal :( also of course, Andy and Rafa are joined at the hip in Slams :( Whatever the ranking....strange...

Nole can have every thing this season except the us open n world tour finals trophy.come 2012 and we all see what a joke he will be on tour.i can see him out of the top ten. Poor guy:too much to defend!

My guess is the USO will be a good indicator of how well Nole deals with the 'burden' of his own success. Last Sunday the clear underdog gave him a serious fright and we saw him visibly unravel as the realisation he was in danger of losing dawned on him. Fortunately for him his years of experience in big finals kicked in at exactly the moment Mardy's relative lack of big stage experience took effect. Nevertheless Nole still had to dig deep in that 3rd set to pull out the win.

"......................Fed fans always appear on this site when Rafa is not doing so well and then fade like snow in Summer when he recovers his form, which I suspect he will do for USOpen."
deuce
, 8/16/11 10:15 AM

So true, deucy..............................they are the only fans I know who have no interest in following their guy.................they follow the guy they purport to hate! Really strange......................

deuce,

Just curious, was the author of the article Veejay?

So called Fed fans are actually anti-Rafa fans, not Fed fans. They have now become Nole fans. If tomorrow Murray becomes hot, they will become Murray fans. If Del Po , then Del Po fans. They are totally negative. Their interest in tennis is only in hating Rafa.
Sad, pathetic.

As usual, rfzr can't provide any answer to my questions. He/she is quick to jump on anyone saying anything perceived to be 'negative' about Nole without first understanding what has been discussed. Poor grasp of English may be?

luckystar: you are a proud member of rafatard brigade, what meaningful discussion is possible with you? you are just a blind rafa worshiper and that's all. maybe it is poor english grasp on my side, but oh boy there is a lot of vacancy on your side mate.

rfzr, from your comments above, it shows how ignorant you are. Perhaps it speaks for yourself, a hard core Nole fanatics. You are devoid of any capabilites for any rational discussions. Please point out to me where in my comments that I'm a blind Rafa worshipper? And I can point out right away that you're a Noletard when you can't even engage in a proper discussion concerning Nole but straight away jump in and said that others are clutching at straws. Perhaps you're the one clutching at straws, well maybe I shall not engage my time with someone like you who are incapable of any sensible discussions and acts as if you're Nole's guardian angel!

luckystar dude, if ricky wrote an article about 'pink elephants', you would manage to mention rafa in your comment 50 times! need i say more?

rfzr, have you mistaken me for someone else? I believe I've not posted on that many threads, and especially not on that 'Djokovic knows he's the target at the USOpen' thread. Please stop accusing me of things that I did not do. I understand you're frustrated with some posters, but please do not vent your anger at me. By so doing, you're showing yourself as some irrational people here, jumping into discussions and attacking posters once you see Nole's name being mentioned. Nole is not perfect so like other players, he can be criticized. So stop jumping at me with all your nonsensical posts, exercise some self constraints will you? And you failed to answer my questions: do you think that Nole will not come down from no.1 in three or five years time; and if he's no longer no.1 then, does he mind not being in the limelight anymore?
Go back to that earlier post and have a good read before jumping at me with all your nonsense, unless you admit that 1) you are not capable of understanding that post and hence all your these nonsense that follow; 2) you don't even bother to read properly but once you see Nole's name being mentioned, you can't help yourself but behave irrationally and started your Nole fanatism and attack whoever that posted the comments.

luckystar, looks like you don't understand the words you wrote yourself. let me make it easier for you by trimming down your own quote "losing the attention and the accompanying limelight that will be hard to cope for him". why take cheap shots at someone who deserves to be where he is at the moment? why would it be hard for novak to cope if he loses #1? it turns out novak is some egocentric maniac who needs to be in the epicenter all the time! do you think that nadal doesn't like being #1? how do you know nadal copes very well after he lost #1? he lost in the first round in montreal, can it be a sign he is not coping very well? let me remind you, novak has achieved his dreams: to win wimby and to be #1, everything else comes as a bonus. so before you throw some nonsense next time, please think thoroughly.

rfzr,

Give it a rest! Do you know Nole personally? No, so don't speak for him! lucky has the right to give her thoughts on Nole here if she wishes to do so. You don't run this site, so stop the bullying and nasty comments!

None of us actually know our favorite players. We can only surmise what they feel or how they would think and act. I don't see any reason for your personal attacks on lucky over that statement she made. I think you are reading way too much into it and it wouldn't be the first time!

Hello rfzr, I think you're the one who failed to understand my post. Nole is clearly one who enjoys the limelight and the attention. You're not his fan if you can't even see that. So if he's enjoying all these attention and limelight that comes with the no.1 ranking, in three to five years time, when he'll most likely be coming down from no.1, and hence the attention and limelight no longer belonging to him, it's not unreasonable to guess that he'll have a difficult time coping with the situation. Isn't it happening to Fed now, and Nole seems more like Fed than Rafa in terms of loving the attention and the limelight? I don't think I'm clutching at straw when I say that, in fact it's a logical deduction and also I'm entitled to my opinion. You may feel that Rafa would behave the same way as Fed or Nole, well that's your opinion and I can't say that you're wrong, even though I don't agree with you. We will only know whether what
we believe is true or not when the time comes, as both Rafa and Nole may be no.1 for the next few years before someone else takes over from them.

I don't see the need for you to perceive any comment about Nole as negative, as I've often criticize Rafa too, especially about his scheduling. I think we are entitled to our opinions as long as we don't do that to bash any players. I believe I'm not bashing Nole here, it's just my opinions here and I'm not critizing him or anything; it's just that I see him as having different personality from Rafa. To me Rafa is one who has difficulty coping with the limelight and expectations and is more comfortable to be seen as the hunter instead of being hunted. Nole to me, like Fed, feels comfortable as being the hunted instead of being the hunter. I hope no more of all these misunderstandings about my posts please. It's not my intention to engage in some 'quarrels' here.

numero@8.24, yes. Don't read Bleacher regularily, but I thought that prediction was worth consideration.

rfzr: Back off will you. You're flogging a dead horse.

You seem obsessed by Luckystar's comment which you have lifted totally out of context. She was in fact responding to my post at 8/15/11 7:33 PM with a perfectly valid observation - with which I concur as it happens.

Nole is doomed in Cincy.
Thanks Ricky for the prediction:-)))

See luckystar, trying to be objective and making pro-Fed or Pro-Nole statements are not advisable. When you do that, the anti-Rafa fans seize them to attack Rafa fans.
When you make slightly negative comments about Fed or Nole, you get attacked.
I don't know whether in school you participated in debates. If you did, you were supposed to select your side and speak only for that side. It might be a good idea if you did that here instead of suddenly speaking for the other side, which doesn't help the cause of Rafa and as you have seen doesn't win you any respect from the other side (anti-Rafa).

It's only Rafa fans who tend to try to be objective and all they achieve is giving the other side ammunition to attack him and entrench their opinions of him. You never see any other fan putting Rafa up against their idol, never. It's even worse when another Rafa fan comes out and agrees with one of his fans going on about his shortcomings.

Some people think that a debate is agreeing with everyone, whilst a debate as rafaelite points is defending one side against another. On TT, people accuse of not wanting to take part in a debate when you disagree with them. A debate is a contest, where two sides present their arguments intent on persuading one another. Some people don't seem to understand that.

Ha ha, nadline, we seem to think alike! No wonder numero thinks I am your multiple ID.
I agree that it is only Rafa fans who think they have to be objective. The other fans are quite clear about whom they are supposed to defend (Fed/Nole) or whom they are supposed to attack ( Rafa).

I'm not interested in any debates. All I want is to post here about what I thought on tennis matches, players etc. I'm not interested in any player bashing, however, if Rafa is being unfairly criticized or accused of any wrong doings, I'll defend him; that doesn't mean that Rafa is perfect that he cannot be rightfully criticized. All players are no saints and I think if we are more objective here and concentrate on the tennis being played, we can cut down on all these unnecesary player bashings.

Ha, now I may have offended all fans here, be it Fed's, Nole's or Rafa's! Anyway, as long as I can justify what I post or the reasons for my comments, I don't think I have anything to worry about. It's the negativities here that sometimes become so unbearable.

rafaelite@10.15, oh come on, that just ain't true for ALL fans! Even players I really don't like, like Sod/Delpot, I try not to be horrible because they DO have fans on here and anyway, my views are subjective. Alex is the same. Perhaps being an Andy fan gives you a different world view?
lucky, I for one appreciate your posts. Keep them coming :)

luckystar, whether you are interested in debates or not, it so happens that you are participating in a debate or war. If you are not clear which side you are on but claim you are a Rafa fan, then I must point out to you that your side is Rafa's side.
Remember good old USA thought it could stay out of the war? But found it had to select a side? If you want to be an ostrich, it is ok. That is your choice. But though you are a very good poster and I respect you, there are times when despite your good intentions, you sabotage the cause of Rafa. It isn't even friendly fire as friendly fire is directed at your own side by mistake.
The worst part is that if a Rafan claims bad things about Rafa or good things about Fed/Nole, it has multiple times the power of the same points made by a Fed/Nole fan.

deuce, if everyone was objective, that would be an ideal situation.
Who knows what will happen to Andy fans when Andy starts winning. They may become anti-Rafa too.
And I did not say I don't appreciate lucky's posts. She makes very good analysis. She is one of the best posters here. But sadly she is unaware that there is a war on.

But rafaelite, what's wrong with acknowledging good and bad things about all players? It doesn't mean that when we don't talk about it, then they are perfect.

I feel that fans here are too protective over their favorite players, can't say anything bad about any player here. May be we should have threads dedicated to each player and only their fans are allowed to post in those threads. I'm now trying to shun those Nole threads, maybe I'll just concentrate on match reports here, but then even commenting on matches here also invited attacks from different fan groups! Pathetic indeed, hard to be a poster on TT these days, if we do not take side. Maybe we have to be truly 'positive', just talk about all good things and close our eyes about the bad ones. Ranting over, still I'm positive that I'm able to navigate my way through some landmines here, as I'm sure I'm always able to back up my points.

rafaelite, "when Andy starts winning" I will be in such a haze of delight of delight, I won't even notice Rafa. And besides I'm not anti Rafa/Fed now why should I be in the future. What I was anti was endless, endless Fedal finals.
And sorry, you are using metaphorical language to describe what goes on here, but it's not a "war." It's just an endless futile argument that goes round and round and back and forth and for some reason the protagonists never get tired of it. And, as for suggesting that lucky should keep quiet because some fans use what s/he says for their own agenda, why that's just plain wrong. Why should s/he self censor because other people are complete idiots?

Thank you deuce. I'm a she. Don't worry rafaelite, I'll remain objective but will fight for Rafa if he's being wronged. And when I post something about Rafa and it's being wrongly perceived by the anti-rafa brigade, I'll come and explain my case and defend Rafa. I'll actively avoid the so called 'wars' if possible but I'll stand by my principle of not bashing any player, and will always defend Rafa if he's being wrongly accused.

No one is claiming that any player is perfect but when his fans go to great lengths to prove that he is not technically as good on h/c as Murray and Djoko just after he won his first USO title beating said Djoko, to me that is not justifiable criticism because there is no way to prove that, it's opinion and there is no measure to say that is categorically the case. It's just presenting his enemies with bullets to attack him, when his fans should have been using the title to make his case.

Rafa's detractors love to point out that he not much more than a claycourter so he provides proof that he is much more than that then one of his own fans square his pitch by saying what his enemies want to hear, which is only an opinion not a fact. If fans of other players say these things it doesn't hurt as much as when his own fans say it.

Day I see an objective post by a Fed fan on TT I'll know....................'coz that'll be proof aliens have landed on planet earth!!

Fed has only won 1 clay slam and his fans proclaim him to be the best on clay in this era after Rafa. I have NEVER heard any other group of fans slag their players off about how technically bad they are on clay. Djokovic beat Rafa for the first time on clay this year and already he is being put down as being as good on clay as Rafa.

Ha that shows how good Rafa is, even a technically not perfect Rafa can beat the top guys on his least favorite surface, there goes to show how good a player Rafa is. Can you imagine if Rafa has perfected all his techniques, and with his tactical brain and natural athletical abilities, how much better he can be? Fans of his rivals should be more worried than anything else.

Of course this year Nole has upped his level but it's also true that Rafa's fitness is affected by his illness and injury and his game is stalled because he doesn't have time to work on improving his game.

nadline and rafaisthebest, do you want to carry on dwelling in this topic and let us Rafa fans be made a laughing stock by those anti-rafa brigade?? I post what I want to post as long as I make my stand clear, I do not need anyone to tell me what to post and what not to post. I don't care who is a Fed fan, a Rafa fan or a Nole fan, I post whatever I deem fit. So whether you're nadline or sienna or rfzr, I don't care!!

luckystar, you must be a nice person in real life always anxious not to appear unjust. But this is a tennis forum and you have to treat it like a debate and ensure your side wins. If you don't want to be negative and bash Fed or Nole, don't do it. People like me can take that role. It needs to be done to counter the guys who bash Rafa.
But you must at least avoid providing fodder to the other side to bash Rafa.
We Rafa fans must be united and not allow the other side to ever get away with any bashing of Rafa. We must make them regret it.

OK rafaelite, I'll try. Let's talk about Rafa's match today. His opponent Benneteau seems one difficult opponent to play against here at Cincy. If I remember correctly, he gave Murray plenty of problems last year or the year before, so I hope Rafa comes out all guns blazing and don't make the same mistakes like his match against Dodig.

"nadline and rafaisthebest, do you want to carry on dwelling in this topic and let us Rafa fans be made a laughing stock by those anti-rafa brigade??"
luckystar
, 8/17/11 2:43 PM

Eh, Lucky.....................you must have me confused with another poster, dear.......

If you go back and check ALL my posts on this thread(with the exception of the one posted at 8/14/11 9:40 PM where I put an opinion about Andy M's chances in Cincy) have been about Fed fans' attitudes towards Rafa.................

Unless I am terribly mistaken, it is you who is carrying on with nadline and rafaelite on a topic which I have deliberately stayed out of because (and I am in agreement with nadline and rafaelite on this) I do not want to give Fedtards ammunition to attack us!

So, please tell me which topic I am "dwelling" on.................and please free to quote the exact post.

rafaisthebest, my apology for wrongly mentioning your name.

luckystar
, 8/17/11 6:47 PM


Apology accepted, lucky......................

nice reading guys/gals very entertaining.

numero@8.24, yes. Don't read Bleacher regularily, but I thought that prediction was worth consideration.
deuce, 8/17/11 7:20 AM

Hi deuce. Just saw your post. I predicted it was Veejay since Sienna discovered that this person goes by the names holdserve and rafaelite here. She has said as much in her posts here before so it was no surprise that she would write another article about the same stuff that she posts about here. Btw I don't read Bleacher either. Sienna brought two articles to my attention so I read those two and it was so clear who it was.

Hi luckystar, I did not watch the match but now when I looked at the score, hey he is through. Too bad about the burnt fingers. But I am feeling a little happier now that Rafa sounds more upbeat.
Anyway, I don't care whether he wins or not. He is the greatest! I am prepared to wait till next year for Rafa to start winning. I am proud that we are Rafa fans and have a hero who is not only a great tennis player but a wonderful person!
And I do love all the Rafa fans here! They are all different, unlike Fed fans who seem to be sly humorless clones of each other. But Rafa fans are united in their love for Rafa.

Hi rafaelite, I watched the match. Rafa was serving very well during the match. However when serving for the match at 5-4 in the second set, he managed to get broken. It seems a very bad habit of Rafa, to feel nervous while serving for the match or while serving to stay in the set. However he quickly regrouped and broke his opponent's serve in the next game and served out the match.

This is a good start for Rafa, it may be a slow but step by step process in rebuilding his confidence. His next opponent is Verdasco, I hope Rafa can get better in each match, hopefully he can go far here and gets enough match plays in time for his USO title defence.

luckystar, how was his forehand? From the comments here I think his backhand was off because of the burnt fingers. Did he play forehand both crosscourt and DTL?

"Did he play forehand both crosscourt and DTL"

yep, he did and at the same time.

He misfired quite a few forehands and according to commentators here, 19 out of his 23 UEs came from his forehand. His DTL forehand wasn't great too. I don't know whether it's because of rustiness or was he still unable to put much wait on his left foot, maybe trying not to put too much pressure on it? Rafa didn't say anything about his foot, he just mentioned that he had not had much time training after Wimbledon because he had to let his left foot recover from the injury.

I read from another forum that Rafa worries more about his foot problem than his knee issues. We know he suffered a serious foot injury back in 2005 that almost threatened his tennis career, it's no wonder that Rafa pannicked during that Wimbledon match when he sensed some pain on his left foot. I hope with the advanement in medical science, some treatment like the PRP treatment can help to solve or at least keeps his foot and knee problems at bay. He's improving his game year after year and I certainy hope that he has many more years to play tennis and not let injuries hampered and shortened his tennis career.

wait = weight

Thanks luckystar, but you don't sound too worried so I feel not too worried either.
rfzr, the "feat" you have achieved is speaking with both feet at the same time in your mouth.

I'm worried but not too worried. I'm sure Rafa will think of a way out of each difficult situation. As long as he still loves the competition, I know Rafa will be fine. There's simply so many areas that I see Rafa can improve and I'm sure what I can see Rafa will definitely see them too. The joy of watching Rafa plays tennis all these years is to see how a teenager evolves as a tennis player as he grows up, from boy to man. From a young upstart, Rafa has now become a world champion and yet there's still room for improvement. The beauty of Rafa is that he comes with flaws, with his unorthodox style and his high intensity play, plagued with injuries too, but somehow he still managed to become world no.1 and won ten slams. The best part is that he's still evolving, and I certainly hope that as he matures and learns to play a more efficent game, he'll have less injury problems. I want to see a Rafa attaining his full potential, with almost perfect techniques plus his good tactical brain and superb natural athletical abilities, he'll be the next ultimate tennis player for me (besides Fed and a Murray who realizes his full potential).

Yes, there's something inspiring about Rafa. Unlike Fed or Nole who are boring. At least Djoko tries to be a comedian and is a talented mimic. But Fed is boring on-court and off-court.
Rafa is wonderfully talented and his journey from boy to man can inspire an epic poem.

Federer is boring? What absolute drivel. Watch the tennis, it has never been boring. I don't really like the guy, but he's a genius.

Federer is definitely boring and that turned me off tennis for a while until Rafa came along and livened things up. If there hadn't been a Rafa in the past few years, I'm afraid tennis would have been a marginalised sport by now.

All you Rafa haters owe him a lot, just remember that.

That had YOU turned off tennis for a while. YOU are not the world of tennis fans. I like Rafa more than Federer, but his fans on here....

I may not be the world of tennis but that doesn't mean that I wasn't turned off. Let the world of tennis speak for itself.

Sure, then we can agree that Federer isn't definitely boring. You just don't enjoy his tennis, but then again do you enjoy anything on court that doesn't involve Rafa?