so how about we just pay them according 2 how many game sthey play then?? nadal had a very easy time in RG 08, so by ur logic he deserves less than say fed did in 09. cos fed played more.

Except - the women train as hard as the men, don't they; the superior players work for their quick matches; and they don't choose to play best of 3 over best of 5. And as an aside, as a woman, I'd sort of expect you would respect the idea and implications of equal pay. As the above poster noted - why not base salary on how many sets one plays in a match, then? Or the length of the match?

Oh, and I did not mean to paint the WTA receiving equal prize money as a "charitable" or affirmative act based on merely their gender, as if they aren't deserving of it, when I talked about respecting the idea of it. I don't want to take anything away from the women - they are fantastic, and their profession collects as much bucks from tennis supporters as the ATP. Equality has sadly come very late.

In all other work of life, men get paid far more than women for doing exactly the same job, and apart from pay it's a man's world all round, so if tennis is unfair to men so be it, at least that's one area where women are getting their own back.

Take the maternity and paternity situation. A female tennis player virtually ends her career by having a baby, does it make any difference to the men....er NO!

Thank you very much for the responses, no matter where you stand on the issue.

Hmm...I like it, actually. I'd give the men a base, regardless. You cannot knock them back if they don't go to five sets. The possibility is always there- they train as if they will go to 5.

Interesting that you would expect that I'd support the idea of equal pay. I suppose I'm in the minority on that one, although in best of 3 tourneys, I'd be for it.

lololololol whadddda sexist & plus a chic no less!!!! but i wanna know what ricky thinks b4 i say it, last time i disagreed he banned me.

At first I was horrified by this thought and then I realized the men do do more...still, I think the women should have to play five setters or else they are basically implying they truly are weaker than men and therefore inferior. Still have to digest this...it sounds so wrong but seems kind of true. I guess maybe at the Slams it would be okay to not have equal pay...still sounds horrible.

people are waitin on your 3 cents ricky!!! what have you got to say?!!!! recordbreaks the cows played five setters & it sucked. 78 service breaks & about 500 ufe's a match, i agree with u but the play level would be horrible!

Perhaps the girls should at least play best of 5 sets in GS finals.

I don't think money is really the issue but more of a 'fair' point of view. I actually was a regular viewer for women's tennis when Justine Henin was there dominating the Williams sisters. How I love that she showed these sisters that tennis is more than just hitting the ball at 300 km/h.

I really thinking grunting should be banned regardless if it's intentional or not. The effect is much more than annoyance because the opponent can't really use their hearing instinct to know how hard the ball is being hit. Sorry but I really hate players who grunt.

Now WTA is just lacking quality. Dinara Safina deservedly is the no.1 but I am bored seeing the Williams sisters brand of power tennis. I never remembered them making any slices at all.

If you are bored by "the Williams sisters brand of power tennis", I am bored seeing Roger's "girlie" tennis. A ballet without the tutu is not fun to watch.

You must be bored because he always is on TV. No one plays like Fed. You just have to watch non-Fed matches if you find his tennis boring.

It is an insult to the players who gets beaten by Fed if he plays 'girly' tennis because a manly player can't beat a 'girly' player like you said.

And yes. WIlliams sisters tennis has nothing to offer other than just power. Sorry.

Thanks for the responses. :)

Hmm, best of 5 sets...You think so, carrie? I don't know- seems to me they already tried that without much success, although it would end the debate, I suppose. I wonder if most of the women could sustain a reasonable level of play. Do they have that kind of stamina?

Wb Trixxyfest- I assume you are calling me a sexist. Not true. If you knew me, a better label would be "capitalist." :)

I completely agree about the grunting- I can't watch the matches. I'd support a ban on that, or at least some fines/penalty.

Shall we stick to the subject matter please.................again, this thread is not about Federer! But phoenix, I agree with you, but have you noticed that Fed doesn't play girlie tennis against the top 4, especially Rafa who gets him running all over the place.

Kelli,
I honestly think the girls are capable of 5 sets, they do sometimes have extremely long final sets where there is no tie break. The only thing is to incorporate a 5 set match into the schedule might be difficult, because organisers count on 2hrs tops for a ladies' match.

I think it has more to do with what these young men and women do with all of their time spent running this crazy circuit. They have put in years of play and practice time getting to the top. I'm not sure whether or not they play 2 sets or 3 -5 sets during a major really should make that much difference in the level of pay between the sexes.

carrie is a toker sure I'm sitting here. girls are capable of 5 sets of nothing but breaks & ufe's. organisers would be scarmbling to figure out how to keep the guys from destroying locker rooms if you have the two play at the same time. how unfair is that one gonna be if rafa has to wait for the cows to finish a 5 set match in nyc?!!!! he'd get on court at 1 in the morning for ****s sakes!!!!!!

phoenix- Small note off topic, that comment about the tutu was beyond funny and I actually love Roger's play.

Still think the women should play 5 sets when the men do but with planning as carrie mentioned I suppose it would really tough at GS's and tournments like Madrid where both the men and women are there at once. Women can play 5 sets but a lot of the young ones that haven't trained as long will probably collapse on court if the rule is changed. Eh...the money thing is still making me feel uneasy, I don't want to be sexist but is a good point.

The WTA would kill though, those ladies want the money, and I would not be the sacrifice that has to tell Venus, Dinara or Serena, who could eat me alive. Not up for that job.

If Fed tennis is 'girly', then the manly men are supposed to beat him easily isn't it? Or are girls supposed to be stronger than guys? There's nothing girly about a 100km/h forehand and a 130 km/h serve as far as i'm concerned.

fedmug moves like a girl on court. you never heard somebody call him a ballerina before? rafa is a force unlike mugger, he's a real athlete. yeah ok the guy has a 100km serve & huge fh's but he's still a sissy. rafa gets how to be a man & play!! don't care if mug's got 29 slams in the end, you & i saw that baby cry at wimbly, oz. he's a girl wearnin a cup!!!

Well, we all never cared what you say trixxyfest just as much as you dont care if Fed won 29 SLams. Nobody watches trixxyfest play tennis but millions watch Fed's beautiful play. Nadal's 'manly' tennis didn't prevented him from getting beaten by Soderling in the 4th round. And the 'manly' Nadal also admitted he cried after WImby2007 so no arguments there.

torres true or false, rafa let out his emotions in private whilst mugger blubbered for the whole universe to watch? & sodaclown beat an injured nadal on a hard court bc the frogs wanted mugger to win so bad they changed the clay. fedmug is two balls short when he plays andy m. or rafa but finds them again when he plays his pidgeons. oooooooooooooooooooooo the irony!!!!!!!!

But according to you, girl= cry, so Rafa cries too means he's a girl too. And Rafa lost two balls against Robin Soderling and also Delpo and Monflis this year.

Anything else?

Yes Fed cries, but he still cries when he wins so why the hell would he not cry when he lost.Also a lot of people including my father, prefer Fed's style of "giriy" tennis, that is how tennis started for the most part. Sure I admire Nadal for winning the way he plays, even think it is pretty in its own way, lethal for the most part, but I just prefer the "girly" tennis, many do. This is why Fed is always tour favorite maybe? He blubbers, but I find it indearing, back on topic.

Five sets is out of the question, I have decided I'll stick to the thought, women are used to not having to play that long, the time limits are set and even though I would love them to earn their equal pay, as a woman, I would like this, but...honestly the WTA will never agree to it. Still not gonna be the one to tell the Williams sisters or the little sister of Marat, who blows up just like him...and women are scarier.

yea he was injured for both matches, not his fault that he lost. if you had to go out & play with one leg you'd lose too. anyway fedmug's a girl, rafa isn't. go look at the oz trophy pres. again & repost.

ok back on topic sure. no way girls last that long keeping a halfway decent match going. i say give the same green if they could, but they can't. can't give them the same money then either, it's like penalizing the atp bc the girls can't keep their end of the bargain. rafa outlasts the williams sisters or safina it's tough *****, he should get paid more.

Haha.. a repost just show an inability to counter the last post. If Fed's a girl, Rafa's a girl too. Full stop.

Back to the topic: Girls can be given the same amount of money if they play the same best-of-5-sets but i don't think they can.

really mate? you missed the quote from someone who'd know. wilander said this of fedclown>

Observing Federer?s decidedly passive body language during his French Open final loss to Nadal, Wilander said,

?Rafael has the one thing that Roger doesn?t: Balls. I don?t even think Rafael has two; I think he has three.? Later, on his own Web site, Wilander added, ?He (Federer) might have them, but against Nadal they shrink to a very small size, and it?s not once, it?s every time.?

if the girls could hold serve maybe they deserve the same $$$$, guys lose serve once a set & the girls average six or more.

whatever you say.. what impt is Roger has 15 GS and nadal has yet to beat that...

for me.. same or not the same prizes, doesn't matter.. it's not up to us anyway. i think no need to discuss this further..:)

Yup. Wilander never faced Federer. I am sure his balls will drop when he face Fed from total annihilation.

15 slams by beating mostly clowns in finals. but whatever i'm talking to myself.

more quotes from people who know equal pay sux/

?There are not many opening-round matches in the women?s draw of grand slam tournaments that I would cross the road to watch,? said former Wimbledon champion Pat Cash. ?Predictability has always put me off [the women?s game] and things aren?t too different from ten or 15 years ago.?

?I don?t think [equal prize money] is really fair,? said professional men?s player Tommy Haas when the change was announced. ?I think the depth of men?s tennis is much tougher than the women?s, plus we play best of five sets.?

15 Slams by beating mostly clowns including Nadal in Wimby2006 and Wimby2007

fatdatis oz 2006, mugzalez oz 2007, sodaclown fo 2009, fatpoo wimbly 2003, roborod 04/5/9 & uso2006, old & injured agassi uso 2005, usta cheated for him to beat andy m. uso 2008.

trixxyfest.....you always give me one hell of a laugh!!! I just enjoy reading your posts!

VAMOS!!!

LOL... u r actually funny trixxyfest... Well, why did u leave Rafart Nasal out?

What the USTA cheated for Fed? I doubt this, but I'm interested in the conspiracy theory.

Tommy Haas really said that? Naturally it would be him, he can seem so nice, but sometimes he comes off a little...WOW. I watched him in german a couple times and even with my limited German was like....WOW. But I wonder how many other male tennis players resent the equal pay.

ok it's out there, but remember that rafa & andy m.'s match was effed up on account of the rain. fedclown is resting for two days whilst the other two wait to get on court, get a rain delay & so on. fedclown plays a burnt andy m. in the final & wins. the usta didn't schedule both matches at once & instead made rafa & andy m wait.

dunno recordbreaks but maybe lots more than just haas. if a girl got as much $$$$ as me for not working the same, i'd be pissed the hell off!!

Hurmm.. If ANdy M is burnt out playing 1 set match on Sunday then he has no fitness.

Anyway, I agree that women shouldn't get equal pay in tennis. Play best-of-five than we can talk.

torres9: although, as you know, huge Andy M fan, am afraid I agree with you! If diddums was too tired to play Fed, then he has fitness issues. I think more to do with first GS final etc. That being said I think it's a helluva ask for someone to beat Roger and Rafa in the same tournament. Only a couple of people have done this. I believe Hewitt was one, not sure of other- Djko?

Actually deuce, Muzza have done it in the Abu Dhabi exho earlier in this year which was not really an exxo and Rafa and ROger really played seriously in that tournament. Muzza beat Roger in SF and then beat Rafa in the final.

Only Nalby and DJoker has done it in ATP tournaments. The USOPen final was really about ANdy M being super-nervous. His tactical game just wasn't there.

Beating Rafa and ROger in the same tournament is very hard because Rafa plays a super-defensive game while Fed plays a super-offensive game. SO Andy M had his back against the wall in the tournament.

But from what I observed this year, Roger's game has gone down a bit and Muzza will get his chance in Slams i'm sure and for sure he's gonna win a SLam.

Like Roddick said,'It's not a question of IF but WHEN'

torres9: I meant GS's actually, which are a whole different matter from other tournaments. But thanks for your cheering words. Was disappointed in Andy M's game against Andy R, to be honest, and really hope he's not gonna be one of the also rans who nearly did it!

wasn't fair. both matches shoulda been played at the same time, no reason they weren't. courts are open but the usta decides to hold andy m. back. not a fitness issue but a cheating one. the usta risked losing lots of $$$$ if fedmug didn't defend in nyc, & since he can't win legit they fix it. andy m. has worked hard on fitness so that wasn't a problem.

trixxyfest- Hmm, I never really thought of it that way. But I think that the U.S. Open always has the men's semifinals of the center court doesn't it? However, I doubt Murray would have won anyway. He didn't seem not fresh, just lost on the big stage. Plus the USTA...I doubt would help Fed win, maybe help Murray lose though, depends, I wasn't paying attention last year, who won the series, Nadal or Murray? If it was Murray I may by the cheating, but still really doubt it...I mean Murray floundered and not because he was tired, because he was scared as sin I imagine.
Maybe I just want to have faith in the US Open cause I can practically see it from my porch...

Hmm....when did the US Open start giving equal pay to women? Or does it not, which would surprise me in my liberal nation? Eh...

OMG, just wanna say you are the funnniesssstttttt Trixxfest, enjoying reading every bit of your posts, especially with the name calling, you are a genius, i'd vote for you to become the next president.

Alll Hails Queen Trixxyyyy...

LOL.... WImby semi-finals are also played at different times... If anyone is conspiring something, it's God because He decided it should rain in the middle of Rafa-Andy M match...

In 2002, according to Sports Illustrated the WTA was raking in so much money that the ATP approached them to have joint tournaments in order to generate interest in the men's game. Yes, you heard right. 7 years ago the ATP was making overtures to the WTA to have joint tournaments because men's tennis was dying. Fast forward 7 years and we have so many wonderful stories about the men's game. It has been revived with the arrival of Federer, Nadal, Murray, Djokovic et al. We hear talk of the wonders of the men's tour and how all the women on the WTA are ball bashing screaming grunters with no element of strategy to their games and questions being raised about equal prize money. The fact of the matter is this: Serena deserved the pay cheque that she got, just as Roger deserved the pay cheque that he got. The ATP benefitted for years from the women's largesse and never thought to share the prize. Now that the ATP is ahead of the women in earnings etc., why should the women not be on equal footing with the men? A lot of the times when arguments are being made for and against equal prize money, we hear talk of the prize money awarded to the winners of the majors, but it goes deeper than that. What about those journey men and women on both Tours who go out there and slog through every single tournament. Don't those women deserve an equal pay cheque to the men as well. The only difference that comes up when discussing equal prize money are the majors. During MS tournaments and other regular tour events, it is always best of 3. Whose fault it is that some players can finish their matches in less than an hour, while some others take 4 hours to finish a match. Whose fault it is that some players take the ball and serve in the alotted time, rather than spend time arguing with umpires, line judges, fixing their hair, and doing all sorts of other stuff, including bouncing the ball. And another thing, I am tired of people saying that players like Serena have no strategy or they just stand at the baseline and hit the ball. I am sure that during this year's Wimbledon we saw Serena make net approaches, she volleyed superbly. I wont even bother to mention Venus. As a matter of fact if my memory serves me correctly Serena won more points on her transition game than Roger Federer did.

It's funny - tennistalk doesn't really 'talk tennis' about the girls, except on this subject. Hmmmmm......

Wow this is a tough one ... there are several different arguments that could be made here:

The first is that it is morally wrong to pay women less -- period.

Ironically the second is the argument that the women's movement itself has used for decades - equal pay for equal work (i.e. if women are being paid the same they should be prepared to play up to 35 sets of tennis per slam)

The third is even more complex -- how do the fans feel? I volunteered for several years at Rogers in Toronto and the women's year was never as well attended as the men's years. Certainly in the case of Toronto, part of the problem is that the fields were always much deeper on the men's side. The women would not always commit and when they did several would invariably pull out with 'injuries'. So if the fans were voting with their wallets they have made it very clear that the men are more appealing than the women and therefore have greater value. And at least from the perspective of Toronto, it is appropriate that the men are paid more than the women.

Now that's a really interesting thought- "it is morally wrong to pay women less..." Thank you for a great addition to the discussion jer468, very insightful.

Should playing 'girly style' be paid less or more?

smr, girly style men who win, should be payed more, because hulk can't beat the little girl.