Come back Fedfans........all is forgiven!!!

Cheryl, i guess all the while we Fed and Rafa fans are using the wins of our tennis heroes to stroke our egoes. Their wins are OUR wins.......their losses are OUR losses, and boy do we hate losses?!!!

Sometimes, when I read those posts I wonder just why oh why are we so nasty and harsh to each other. We defend our fav to the bone. It actually hurts me when someone says something -ve about Rafa, it offends me, extremely! And I have to wonder, why?!! I have never met Rafa (oh, I have at the 2008 US Open, got autograph and all, but not his number.....lol!!!), I dont know him, he does not know me, but to me, he is my hero!! I cant speak for Fed fans but Im sure they feel the same about Roger, so I understand. But what I dont understand is why we fight with each other so, why we hate each other so.............and because of two individuals who are actually friends...........lol!!!!

I have to admit that I really wish that Rafa would arrest Novak's winning streak........and truth be told, its more my ego speaking. I should be happy for Novak that he has finally come into his own after being so long in the shadow of Rafa and Roger..................but I dont care.........I dont like it at all that he has beaten Rafa thrice in a row and I would like it to end.

But if I were to sit back and think about tennis and how much joy Ive had watching those guys play, I have to say that I actually do like all three of them......Rafa, Novak and Rgoer! They have really brought so much to the game and it certainly will not be the same without them. We need Fed like we need Rafa like we need Novak!!!

So why do we fight so much.............or is it our egoes betraying us?........

cheryl - are you seriously getting hate mail about djokovic? :( :( :(

LOOOOOOOOL...!

mriiidula, don't ask cheryl ask zare :)

It's funny that you should write this blog now, just the other day I was asking myself what is it to me whether Rafa wins this or that title or is No 1 or not, because as rafaisthebest says, Rafa doesn't even know us let alone how much some of us care about his tennis. We have all morfed into our heros, and feel their triumphs and disasters are ours. Although tennis fans are not unique in this at all. A few years ago I used to wonder at football fans who cried when their teams lost, now I understand that it can really affect you to the point of tears.

On the radio the other day they were discussing this very subject with football fans who are so tribal that they won't even socialize with each other. One fan was asked what he would do if his daughter brought home a boyfriend from the rival team and he said that was such a ridiculous question because his daughter knows the rules.

Fedfans and Rafans got very cosy believing that they actually owned the 2 top spots and the right to win all the titles and now that there is a 3rd person we think 3 is a crowd and we are closing ranks. It's not that we dislike any of these players, it's the threat they pose to our heros that we dislike.

Just in case anyone is wondering, I have never sent Cheryl an email.

Some of us have always been FEDAL fans, as to us their matches against one another are the platinum standard of tennis.

Nole or no Nole, that hasn't changed.

All credit to Nole for all his improvements. What I have noticed is that I don't think he's won a title without having to beat Roger, or Rafa, or both.

"Just in case anyone is wondering, I have never sent Cheryl an email."

Hahaha! :-)

Full disclosure :

I have never sent Cheryl email either.

I want to state clearly that I don't feel the way those fans do. Roger is my favorite player and Rafa was his chief nemesis in his career so I love to cheer against him. It's like a Yankees fan who wants the Red Sox to fail or a Celtics fan who wants the Lakers to get humiliated.

I've warmed to Nole. I didn't like all the drama with the retirements,etc. That seems to be all over now so I have no problem with Nole. I will, given the choice, always cheer for him over Rafa. I like the way he plays more than Rafa and I admire his sportsmanship with the line calls,etc.

When Roger retires Nole may become my favorite player. I also like other up and comers like Milos Raonic and Ryan Harrison so it may be one of them.

Cheryl, I dont know abt the fedal fans sending u mail abt Joker, but I think many Fed fans are happy that Nole is constantly beating Rafa, coz those fans hated Rafa for beating their Almighty time & time again. Oh God how I loved those encounters!! Now I am in that same postition as those Fed fans :-( waiting for Rafa to summon up the courage & fight hard to topple Nole in their nxt encounter.

As a Rafa fan its too hard for me to take those defeats, I even wonder that why we fans get sooo personal abt them that it starts hurting us. Every Rafa defeat takes days sometimes weeks to heal... this week tho, I dont know what will happen in the finals but I guess 'Whatever happens HAPPENS" approach works better. I have never loved anyone like Rafa & never will again. I wish him enormous success!!!

VAMOS RAFA!!!

How can fedfans be happy when Rafa loses to Djoker when Fed loses to Djoker too and more convincingly too

the rarest gem and undisputed leader is "novak uses voodoo against rafa" notion ...

I have come to the conclusion that where Rafa is concerned I am no better than my lovely dog, Sparky! I'm just as territorial, i'll go anywhere he tells me to go (i do structure my mached around his matches, don't I?). So, there you have it, I am Rafa's little mog..........!!!

Cheer up Nadline, Rafa may not know us his fans individually, but he knows and cares about his fan base.

As for Nole, I will not insult his fans' intelligence by pretending to be best pleased by his on-going success........sorry, but the longer his success goes (against Rafa of course, he is allowed to beat everybody else) I can see myself giving that Glenn Close character (the one who hates those lovely spotty dalmatians) a run for her money..........no harm wished on Nole of course, I just want him to go back to being the background to Rafa's foreground!!!

Not much to ask, is it?

I've warmed to Nole. I didn't like all the drama with the retirements,etc. That seems to be all over now so I have no problem with Nole. I will, given the choice, always cheer for him over Rafa. I like the way he plays more than Rafa and I admire his sportsmanship with the line calls,etc.

numero , 5/14/11 2:24 AM


Rafa is the ultimate sportsman. Did you see the way he conceded line calls to Lapenzi at crucial times especially when he was 1 set and 4.4 in the 2nd set with Lapenzi serving, knowing that if he lost that game he could go down to No 143 in the world which would have been earth shattering especially on clay.

Just say you like Nole, don't overlook other player's sportsmanship.

being a Rafa fan in an environment where I live is not an easy one...But I love Rafa so much that I am always ready to fight for him: to get into arguments, to defend his loses, to be optimistic, to ask respect from others for a great sportsman Rafa is...but I never, ever hated Fed and especially not Nole...what good would hatred bring me? Although I could hardly sleep after those loses to Nole, still the worst feeling was when I woke up in the morning with the first thought coming to my mind: huh, Rafa lost yesterday, I have to go through this day knowing that...But then I go out there and congratulate Nole's fans who sometimes do enjoy to torture me in a way..:) still, the toughest time I ever had was when Rafa lost to Sod and was not playing due to injury...all Fed's and Nole's fans were united to tell me he was over and that he would never be back...those are the times I would love to forget...so, losing to Nole who is better right now is difficult but not as unbearable as dealing with injury...as long as our favorites are healthy and ready to fight it will be a pleasure to watch them and back them up, win or lose...and Nole fans must know how we feel when our personal GOD loses...they all have been there...

And Cheryl, those who did send emails to you must have done it in a attempt to develop a friendly close relationship with you..:) If I ever decide to send you guys an email, it will rather be directed to Ricky for I most of the time enjoy his short and direct responses to our long elaborated complaints and fears...boy, the truth he sometimes throws at us does heart...but he also makes me laugh even in these times when being a Rafa fan does not give me as much to laugh about...but I will be here cheering for Rafa hoping for his best form to come back shouting VAMOS the word which has become the favorite in my every day vocabulary...VAMOS RAFA!!!

This morning my husband asked me what time the match would start because he wanted to talk about our holiday dates because he says he can't get my attention when Rafa is playing. Ha

This is just hilarious. People sending you emails should have an awful lot of time on their hands :D In a way, it is sad - because while its great fun being a fan, I don't think it needs to go that extent given that it doesn't really affect your own life directly.

I love tennis and watching a professional player is always a thrill. However sports isn't just about admiration for the skill, or it would be no different than watching a joggling act.

As much as I admire Roger or Nole, if Rafa is playing I want Rafa to win. Why? Because he is the man I have chosen as my champion, my "avatar", my vicarious conqueror of the holy grial of life. His victories are my victories and his defeats my defeats. I also get a sense of belonging with fellow-Rafa fans.

These are all normal human needs and the reasons why we care so much about something which has no "real" or "practical" impact in our lives

It is SO hard to experience the thrill of victory, along with the roller-coaster of emotions we feel during a sports event, in everyday life!

We don't get to have thousands of fans sitting in a giant stadium cheering for us as we sit at our desk and write a report on the sales trends of household appliances.

It doesn't have to make sense. It's an outlet to our daily frustrations. Roger, Rafa, the Chigaco Bears, The Barcelona F.C. or the Manchester United become our Boss, the stupid cable guy, the bank which denied our loan, the car which keeps on stalling and we wish we could afford to ditch. Our heroes are us, confronting all those overwhelming odds and frustrations.

If a 24 year-old kid can take on the world's best one at a time, week after week and beat them all, we can certainly take on a flooded carburetor.

And don't think this is unique to sports. There is Mac vs PC, Coke vs. Pepsi, Canon vs. Nikon, Vegans vs Meat eaters, Star Trek vs. Star Wars, Rock vs. Pop, Marvel vs. DC, and so on, and so on. We love to argue and to hear our "fellow nuts" tell us how well we "pwned" those stupid (insert opposing tribe here). It's just fun to be united in a silly argumentative war!

Let's just hope that it doesn't get out of hand, and these trivial conflicts can be channeled into something positive and truly life-changing for the better, like motivation to go out and actually exercise!

Sorry for the rant, and before I forget, great post, Cheryl!

I, like many Rafa fans, did not enjoy the last 3 matches Nole won against Rafa, BUT......we also know that Nole could never be discounted and was always a threat, regardless of his rank, even way before Nole's 2011 streak, which is incredible! Same goes with Murray! (except for the streak part). I've always liked Nole and knew when he and Rafa played, it would be a great tennis match. I prefer Nole's style of play and attitude over fed so there is no uniting to go on--lol.

As much as I wish a repeat of a FO win for Rafa, Nole's streak is amazing and should be recognized. I prefer to wish for continued good health for Nole and Rafa and hope that their relentless pursuit in tennis does not involve injuries!

OK.... let's see...
Mac rules!!!
Coke!
Canon or Nikon....well...iPhone:)
Star Trek.... definitely !
Rock! Long live the King!!!
Marvel... DC was always fake...
As we say in Serbia... " Somebody likes preacher, someone like preatcher's wife and someone likes preatcher's daughter"
So good luvk to all our's heroes!
ps... grafight.... PC, windows... BUUUUUUU!

*luck :(

LOL, Zare, it wasn't a survey, but thanks for sharing your favorites. Maybe we should add other classic people dividers, such as Pirates vs Ninjas, Italian vs German (cars) Italian vs German (food), Serve & Volley vs Baseline play, Clay vs. Hard and many more. BTW I also like Macs, Rock, iPhone, Marvel and the preacher's daughter ;D

I am a proud Fed fan. I accept that Rafa is better when they meet although I do not see Rafa as the better hardcourt or grass player.

But in all in all, Rafa's level of consistency and efficiency is probably the greatest we ever saw. But I think with all the technology,training methods, players present will always be better than the past.

I mean, Del Potro, Berdych, Djoko, Murray, Davydenko are all able to beat RafaFed on their day. Delpo had done it in GS and Djoko has done it more consistently than other players.

So I think, Fed made the 'all-round' game a necessary target for new players to be successful. Now the top 10 players does not constitute of specialists rather we have balanced players which can do well on every surface.

Rafa, on the other hand, popularized the physical aspect of the game. Now players are fitter and stronger.

Nole is an example of a player that has managed to blend these 2 elements and we will surely see other players do it in the future who will be better than Rafa and Fed.

Rafa and Fed are pioneers of the modern tennis game. Every Fed victories in Slams and on his closest rivals. I think Fed doesn't need to retire. Why stop doing things you love? We're over his period of dominance.

But we never tire watching Fed play tennis.

Excellent post, torres. I agree that Roger and Rafa FORCED the men's game to a different level. The days are long gone that you can stay atop the ATP with one or even two great shots. You have to be great at everything.

Yeah,cheryl, I dunno what is better, seeing different type of players like what we saw in Pete Sampras's era or seeing all-round players like what we are seeing now.

But what's for sure is the top 10 players are technically and physically good nowadays.
Wonder what's the next evolution of tennis? Maybe we'll have more young players training to hit the forehand Rafa-style because no other players hit that reverse forehand in the tour.

Technology, training methods etc is what has pushed tennis to what it is now. While I do love watching the incredible athletic ability on display nowadays, I also miss the net game and the ability to serve exceptionally well - the big servers of days gone by were a lot more accurate than the servers of today.

One thing I would have liked to see today was how players would have fared if there was greater disparity among surfaces throughout the season.

There's no denying that players nowadays are better athletes though. Displays of athletic ability are always great to watch - which is why I loved watching Sampras - and that can only get better in the future.

There's no Sampras type of player nowadays.

Because:-
a) No one can hit a serve as accurate as Pistol Pete
b) Racquet technology enable returners to control the serve more
c) No one can hit the Slam Dunk like the Pete
d) Serve-and volley tactic works better on faster courts but the court is slower on average nowadays

Couldn't agree more, torres. The closest you got to Sampras was early Federer when served and volleyed his way to his first Wimbledon.

As for the serve, it wasn't just Pete who could paint the lines regularly. You had great servers such as Krajicek, Ivanisevic, Becker etc.

That's where I feel the game has gone backwards a bit. While players are much better from the back of the court, the ability to win free points hasn't decreased solely because of better returning - the serving isn't at the level it used to be. Could be due to the fact that players feel it plays a smaller part in gameplans nowadays - but Federer's 50 aces in Wimby 2009 proved that an accurate serve is a matchwinner.

Torres,
Very well written post by Cheryl but for the last sentence and your very sweet post of your favovorite player. I agree.
Sampralica,
Every match Fed lost was because of very poor first serve on the day-the first two sets of Wimby in 2008 arr cases in point. the match went to the fifth set because of Fed's First serve. His loss to Novak and Safin in AO are also because of poor first serve.
Many consider Wimby 2008 the greatest match because it was un upset, Wimby 2009 is not considred because it was not an upset, had Andy won that match in the fith set it would have qualified to that billing as it was equally competiteve-the second set tiebreak and the fifth set marathon and again because of the 50 odd aces.
Federer is losing because of his drop in first serve percentage and he is not painting the lines any more and he is defensive even when playing aggresive tennis.

Hey Cheryl, I like your blog but I do not agree that Fed and Nadal fans have united. Most of the Fed fans are busy gloating over what they perceive as Rafa fans' discomfiture.
In fact the hostility between Rafa and Fed fans reminds me of the long standing hostility between pure and Applied Math. Apparently (long ago) David Hilbert was asked to reconcile these hostile groups.
He said it was wrong to say Pure and Applied Math were hostile to each other. They never were, they aren't , they never would be hostile to each other. In fact they cannot be hostile to each other because they have nothing in common!
Well, the reconciliation effort obviously failed and so it is in the case of Rafa and Fed fans.

holdserve,
quoting one of the Math greatest, Hilbert, and on the hostility between the pure and applied camps? A man (woman?) to my heart!

I don't think you meant to imply this... but those who like to make much more of the differences between Roger and Rafa than there really is... might compare the former to the pure mathematicians and the latter to the applied, as a rough analogy... in reality the two have a lot in common (pure and applied math) - there is a lot of pure math used to explore and further applied math and vice-versa - and they have always been extending and evolving each other, not unlike Roger and Rafa, at least... imho... and who am I to argue with the venerable Hilbert ? :-) ... but when it comes to the practitioners of the two types of math... true they often have not seen eye to eye and tended to untruthfully and completely subjectively downplay the other camp... and in that they are/were not unlike those among Roger's and Rafa's fan who take project themselves onto their favorites as if they be idols and go on a kind of us-and-against-them tribal warfare. You get so many stronly believed views that are .... well, not close to reality.

I swear: I didn't drink anything alcoholic this afternoon. Just a coffee in the middle of the afternoon :-).

Fed fans and Rafa fans has something in common which is they will defend their idol determinedly. So at least there's something we have in common.

Hey chlorostoma, great to discover somebody like you who appreciated the analogy. Of course Pure and Applied Math have a great deal in common and so have Roger and Rafa. But followers of Roger and Rafa, just like the great Hilbert himself, refuse to accept that there could be anything in common between the two, let alone a great deal in common. Each group considers itself to be superior and a different species altogether and disdains the thought of any comparison.
For instance, Fed fans often say that Federer is naturally talented, his game is beautiful etc but Rafa is totally a product of hard work and his style is grinding.
As a matter of fact, Rafa is equally naturally talented and his game is magical, the impossible retrievals, the extraordinary angles, the variety, the perfection........it could make an unpoetic person like me break out into poetry.
Both are disciplined and train hard and regularly. Both are competitive. Both have extraordinary stamina and mental focus and consistency.
But neither side will acknowledge anything in common between the two, let alone be prepared to cease hostilities.
If the great Hilbert himself could not do it, how can lesser mortals?

Oh by the way, chlorostoma, I disagree with you about Roger being pure and Rafa applied. Roger generally plays textbook tennis which is applied. Rafa just follows his intuition and has come up with unorthodox shots. It is pure math which finds a new idea with no thought of application but entranced merely by the concept. But alas the applied fellows quickly find a use for it.
Of course Roger too comes out with some shots which aren't there in textbooks so I guess he does have a little bit of "pure" in him but on the whole Rafa is more "Pure" and Roger is more "Applied" . So you can have Fed clones like Gasquet and Grigor. But difficult to find a Rafa clone.

holdserve,
Not all fans of either, nor all journalists or commentators, have been finding that roger and rafa are that different. Among those that have I believe it is mostly the fans of Roger who (rightly or wrongly) made more than (I think is the case) of Roger being 'pure'and Rafa 'physical', 'grinding'etc... partly because Rafa used to run down balls so much more than most. I've never bought into this exagerated contrast.

As for applied vs pure... I was only suggesting that those who buy into this type of contrast *migh* use the analogy of pure vs applied for roger and rafa. I wouldn't.

Roger and Rafa both - if you look at slow-mo replays or stills - exemplify superb technique, e.g. body positions... the sort of picture I remember seeing in how to play tennis books when I was a kid... but they have both taken the skills to such a high level that they are both at the same time playing 'textbook' (ie the ideal forms) and beyond any regular textbook styles... in each return they tend to adjust so well to the specific situation. It takes strong and quick muscles to do this... but it also takes the highest levels of coordination, concentration, timing, flexibility... all the things that supposedly are not given to one who plays like the beast from manacor :-) while the other floats - supposedly - like a ballerina on skates over the tennis court and in his godly sphere does not even have to use all of that stuff :-)... what distortions adulation brings to our eyes :-).

grafight, 5/14/11 5:24 PM Bravo. That was a superb entry, beautifully written and encapsulating all that keeps fans of tennis riveted for hours and hours an end - often involving sleep deprivation when tournaments are being played on the other side of the world.

Just imagine if Rafa had won 37 consecutive matches so far this year the internet would have been rife with innuendos and accusations about him by Fedfans, but because Nole has beaten Rafa 4 times in the 37, Fedfans are relishing it so they have accepted that it is humanly possible to do what Nole has done.

It's a case of my enemy's enemy is my friend.

Fedfans are relishing it so they have accepted that it is humanly possible to do what Nole has done.

nadline
, 5/20/11 4:22 PM


Be careful nadline I was sternly warned from Cheryl about such innuendo. That type of talk is not allowed here I was told but if you don't think it's happening on the internet go to ESPN's site and it's rife there.

numero, I said Fedfans have accepted that it's humanly possible to achieve what Nole has achieved which is not how they would have viewed it had Nadal done the same thing, that's stating the fact of how Fedfans behave towards Rafa and certainly not pointing the finger about anyone.

I'm glad I don't visit sites where such finger pointing takes place.

numero, all I'm saying is that Rafa just has to serve at 135 mph in one tournament before aspersions are cast on him and it is now evident that players can push the boundaries much further than has been done before. That's all I'm saying.

nadline,

Fair enough. Interesting that you should mention the 135 serve from NY. I have a theory about that.

Rafa pushed himself for that tournament but pulled back because he injured his shoulder and missed the Masters event in Paris. I think that scared him a bit and that's why his mph has gone down recently. So all of his fans have been asking for that big serve, I doubt they'll see it unless he just tries to pull it out for the Slams.

nadline,

That was a really nice clarification of what you originally said, but not for one minute did I think you meant anything else. Rafa fans have experienced these accusations when he has done well, so we would be the last people to ever accuse any other player of something like that.

There was a pro Fed tennis forum in which one of the bloggers who writes for that site, flat out came out on the eve of the USO final and said that Rafa had used something to get that big serve. This person was much more specific, but I don't even care to repeat such nonsense. There was no backing down, either, even in the fact of outrage from Rafa fans.

These Fed fans are idiotic. I can understand if a weak fellow suddenly gets a powerful serve and you suspect he took something to build muscles overnight.
But Rafa is strong. He already had muscles. His service became faster than his old service but it still wasn't faster than somebody of his strength could be expected to produce. So what is it that excited the suspicions of these morons?
If there is a substance which when imbibed changes technique, no one has heard of it except Federer fans.

Even little Nico serves faster and harder than Rafa. If Rafa served with his natural right hand he would probably have a better serve but he will lose the other advantages that he's got playing left handed.

There are many videos of Rafa showing his left arm muscles versus his right arm muscles and clearly, his left biceps and muscles are much bigger. DUHHHH.........he is a lefty in tennis, so obviously his left arm would get more use. His right arm is almost scrawny in comparison. People also forget that he comes from a very athletic family (his uncle was the "Beast Of Barcelona") and so it is in his genetics to have those tree-trunk like leg muscles. He has put out some videos of his training (some are kind of old) but he clearly exercises his entire body.

If fed was to all of the sudden, start winning tons of tourneys and GS, would he be accused of that?

List of unfinished business of Roger Federer:
1. Olymic singles title in 2012 at London
2. Wimby 7
3. USO 6
4. Win at RG over RN at any level.
5. More weeks as N0. 1

A tall order as tall as 16 GS. Huh!

Would the moderators please remind newfangkc that we don't copy and paste the same post on different topic threads on this site!

This is the third time that I have had to read this list of unfinished business for Fed. We have all been told not to copy and paste the exact same post on different threads!

fan4tennis,
What is puzzling is why Federer fans point to Rafa's left arm being bigger than right arm as being suspicious. I am a righty and my right arm, even my right fist, are significantly bigger. What is suspicious about a dominant arm having bigger muscles and being more developed?

NNY,
I really did not know if there was a rule like that. Every time I typed an error crept in till the third time. It (C&P) will not happen again. Thanks and best wishes.

Funny talk about Rafa's left arm vs his right arm. Has anyone noticed Fed's right arm is rather muscular but his left arm is scrawny? So how we explain that? What applies to Rafa also applies to Fed. No reason to suspect one and not the other, more so if one is more successful than the other. We have to apply the same rule to be fair to both.

Anyway, talking about Rafa's serves, his serve doesn't suddenly improve overnight. He's being working on it all along, in fact throughout his tennis career. I do agree that Rafa only uses his powerful serve sparingly because he knows he may end up injuring his shoulder, so that serve was developed particularly for the USO, not for Canada/Cincy, which explains why he didn't serve well during those two tournaments. Some people are really strange, believing that the serve can improve overnight due to taking some substances for help. Rafa did have some shoulder issue after that and he had to skip the Paris Masters because of that.

All I wish is for Rafa to serve well enough in the 120+ mph on a regular basis, relying on placement and intelligent serving that keeps his opponents guessing. Maybe he can take a leaf off Fed's book, serves with the same service motion but not always the same placement, keeping his opponents guessing all the time.

If u want to check out how much one arm can be significantly bigger than the other, check out Rod Laver.

Thank you, newfangkc. We ask posters not to copy and paste posts to discourage spamming. Cheers!

though djokovic is most impressive right now but he has a long way to catch nadal (9) and federer (16) and i dont know why people fight federerhas his on attributes like elegant short placing serves fitness and an elegance to his game while nadal has determination a never give up attitude and relentless stamina a warrior spirit so live with it why start comparing and while nadal has the potential to succeed federer as the greatest ever tennis player federer is right now and only time will tell whether nadal overtakes his great swiss rival or not