whats ur point mate?

useless blog.

well this blog was a response to all the SHIT nadal haters were throwing at rafa durting the match... a good blog !

nicely written Cheryl :) I especially appreciate that you point out to both players who we cheer for. I am a Fed fan foremost, but do not claim he is perfect. Same should go for other players as well as their fans.

Look i thought Rafa took the time out when Petz serve was already weakening! This I found odd!! If this was a question of gamesmanship...............why didnt Rafa take a medical time out while Petz was serving like a freaking freak?!!!!!!! This makes no sense to me!!!!

And Cheryl.......Mahut and Isner SHOULD have taken medical time outs!!!!!!!! It was to none of their benefits not to do so bcos look..........neither of them got far!!! This is rediculous to even bring up this match becos i think it was actually a shame the way Wimby dealt with that match............in that neither of the players should have been allowed to play again in less than 24 hours!!!!.............none of us know what the hell this is going to do to their health in the fuutre!!

The pressers from this match should be good.

Petzschner's serve was NOT weakening, Monalysa. Well...not until Rafa took the time out, anyway.

Let me ask this. Did you see ANYTHING in Rafa's game before OR after the time out that lead you to think he was hurt? because I didn't.

And medical time outs would not have given Isner an extra store of energy against De Bakker. My point is - if you aren't HURT, you don't call for a trainer. Period. Being tired doesn't count as being hurt.

http://www.livestream.com/wimbledon?utm_source=lslibrary&utm_medium=ui -channel-text
Rafa's presser.

Cheryl..............some times while playing the players fell a bit uncomfortable but they dont always tend to show it. Yes, I was a bit surprised when Rafa called that medical time out, not noly becos I didnt see anything visibly wrong with him but i thought why take a time out when Petz serves WERE indeed slowing............he was having a bit of difficulty holding serve comfortbly!!!.......he was no longer blasting aces like he was before! Tell me im not going crazy becos I remember saying to my mom.....................why is Rafa choosing to take a medical time out when Petz clearly seems a bit tired!!! Rafa actually gave Petz a breather!!!!

Anyway Cheryl, I may be wrong but I will look at the match again and look carefully to see what ure saying.

Tweets from presser:

Rafa: 'If I called the physio is means my knee was hurting a lot' Quad also tight. Will speak to supervisor about coaching. Toni said nada'

i always like ur blogs but this.. .i just open a account to answer u.so ur saying that rafa n roger two great champions r cheaters.im sorry to say but u misjudge them.in last match against robin hasse rafa was in same situation and haase is better player than pp.does he call trainer.there is some problem so he called trainer.he is a true champ n gentlman.

Cheryl, the commentating from ex-tennis players was atrocious during this match.
For Boris Becker to say out loud on the air that he felt Rafa Nadal was taking a tactical TO as opposed to a medical TO is the height of unprofessionalism and certainly does the sport no favours.

I think Rafa's knee or thigh was hurting. Unlike Cheryl, I did see a slowing down of Rafa's movements. He didn't manage to reach a serve return and a drop shot from Petz and judging from his movement then, he seemed a tad slow. Petz's serves then was slowing down, and he had to fight to hold his serve early in the set, and Rafa was leading 2 games to 1 before the MTO. The momentum had shifted in Rafa's favor before the MTO.

Rafa mentioned later on that he is going to miss the Davis Cup tie because he is having problem with his knee now.

smr - It doesn't matter what they say, they are not Rafa, they can't feel for him. Its just like in the past when Rafa was having his knee problems, some commentators,eg Paul McEnroe, even player like Fed, said that they didn't see anything wrong with Rafa's knees, until Rafa had to skip Wimbledon, then they realized the seriousness of Rafa's injury. People like to jump into conclusions without knowing the truth or without getting their facts right. Just ignore them!

There was a slow motion replay just after Rafa had missed getting to a ball he would normally have reached easily. You could clearly see his movement was hampered. In the past we know he has played through the pain barrier (with disastrous results), the difference now he is pulling up when he feels something is wrong.

Andrew Hardcastle, who was commentating with Boris, mentioned more than once he thought Rafa was not moving well. BB saying on air he believed the MTO was tactical was disgraceful - particularly as he was the person who practically invented the practice by taking bathroom breaks at the drop of a hat. I thought of his weak bladder during the Isner/Mahut match!

I am disappointed to learn you actually accuse both great champions of being cheaters...I have no word but to say I deeply disagree with you. Rafa called time out because he was hurt... his knees is problem for itself and we all know what he has been through and how difficult it is for him to face the scare of being injured again...I trust Rafa more than I trust anyone's bias opinion on this subject...he would not fake an injury! Deep inside I admit I would even be happy to learn that he was faking it and that he is just fine and up and running...but knowing the history of his knees I find it so insulting for a great champion like Rafa to have someone question his reasons for asking for trainer...Rafa is SO scared of being injured again and he keeps saying how difficult is to play knowing you can easily be in the injured state again...So people be nice and leave the great champions in peace...they have done so much for the sport, they brought so much joy to our lives and it is pathetic to doubt their honesty in asking for medical time out. I think both Fed and Rafa deserve much more than being accused to have cheated...I guess this tells more of the people who question their integrity than of the players themselves...and when the match was over Philip showed appreciation for Rafa and waited for him to leave the court together...do you think Philip thought at any point that Rafa was faking injury?! I guess this thought only lies in the minds of people who pretend to see beyond reality...

And for Isner and Mahut: I think there is no analogy there ... honestly, taking time out would mean nothing to any of them as they were only serving and did little else on the court! That in fact was not a match, it was rather a practice session for big serving machines...and we all know how it ended...

Actually, I believe what I said was that they were NOT cheaters. Taking a well-timed injury time out and going to the bathroom to throw your opponent off is completely within the rules.

You can decide for yourselves whether you think it's "fair" or not.

smr - I don't agree with Boris Becker on that. I'm fairly certain that Rafa's knee actually hurt - but he himself said right after the match that it was nothing serious. It was no mistake that the timing was after he held but before Petzschner served. Again, well within the rules.

Interesting that even though I said "they aren't cheaters" CLEARLY and IN THE TITLE, 3 different people have accused me of saying that they are. If you want to disagree that in those 2 cases, the players employed gamesmanship, have at it...although since Federer admitted it, I think you might have a tough time in that case.

But don't try to get in argument about whether it was cheating when I clearly said it wasn't.

Well, I believe it was necessary, inevitable and not well-timed injury time out! That?s all....when feels hurt Rafa decides to check it out and have professional opinion given what he had to experience in the past! I see nothing wrong with that. And when he decided to finish the match vs. Murray in Rotterdam 09 even when he was hardly moving and then further damaged his knees nobody said he should have retired, but instead people were even then saying how he must have been faking it...what is wrong with the people?s minds?!...don?t they have any appreciation for the sportsmen like these? I just find these doubters enormously disrespectful...

VERY VERY GOOD POINT Cheryl!
As they say, let's give everyone, I mean, EVERYONE, the benefit of the doubt!... not guilty until proven otherwise! Rafa had a med. time out so did Petzschner! Whoever was feeling some REAL pain, we wouldn't know would we?
In every sport, there's always some ways of WINNING "beyond" the rules of the game that are still "acceptable" considering the rules of the game!

Federer and Nadal knows how to win fair and square, but when pushed to the brink of defeat,,, they sure can hold on to the knife for as long as they don't stab their opponents!

Doesn't the fact that fed was open about it make a difference? it does to me.. i don't mind rafa taking tactical time out since it is within the rules but he should be open about it and admit that the superlative play of his opponent merited such a tactic..

in my opinion such a tactic is not a reflection on the champion but on the challenger who is forcing the champion to resort to tactics beyond just the racket and his skills.. My only condition is that win the match how you may, but be honest about it and admit that the other player was so good that you needed more than just tennis to beat him. Fed did that and hence his toilet break is acceptable to me, if rafa does that, my respect for him would still remain where it is. Period.

>>Did you see ANYTHING in Rafa's game before OR after the time out that lead you to think he was hurt?

The Wimbledon radio commentators were wondering about his arm, actually.

And as McQ above me notes, Petzschner took a time-out as well. So *if* one is going to argue gamesmanship, its exercise needs to be recognized on the part of both players.

But I'm glad you clearly articulated a point of view on this, at least, Cheryl, before it turned into a full-out brawl, as I've already seen on other boards.

FitG, i agree with you that taking advantage of the rules to your own benefit is acceptable as long as you credit the fact that the opponent was good enough on that day to make you have to do so..

As for rafa not admitting it, if you read his presser, i think he was trying to explain but couldn't figure a way to do so since he seemed slightly embarrassed.. i am sure he is going to clear it up soon..

rafa is a great champion but he is not always open with the press.. but i am sure he didn't know this will be a controversy.. expect an update from him soon..

But FIG, are we here saying for sure that it is a tactical MTO? So when an MTO is not considered tactical? If we agree that Rafa's knee/thigh is hurting, my question is when then can Rafa call a MTO that would not be considered tactical? Must he wait till the set is over, which may take another hour to finish?

I'm with those who would far rather wait and hear Rafa explain what was troubling him than for him to take a risk and play through something that was troubling him and end up *having* to withdraw with an injury, like he did with the AO.

Do "fans" really not care if players might get hurt? I do wish people would stop whining.

Mc Q - Fed and Rafa DO know how to win fair and square. And most of the time they do....but not always. They know what the rules are and how to use them.

FitG - I agree about the challenger. Petz was playing out of his mind. OTOH, gamesmanship wouldn't work and nobody would do it if players weren't so mentally fragile that a 3 minute TO was enough to make them drop serve. Just something to think about.

Cheryl, I think Phillip says something quite similar in his own presser.
BTW Rafa 'shhh'ing uncle Toni was hilarious!

One more point to add - why do people insist that it is a tactical MTO and not just an ordinary MTO that Rafa required because his knee/thigh is hurting?

Why the need for tactical MTO is my question. This match worked out to be similar to that match against Haase. Rafa was two sets to one down, he up his level in the fourth set during the Haase match. Did he fake injury and take a tactical MTO then? Did he know before hand that he wold get a 6-0 scoreline in the fourth set? Same with this Petz match, Rafa obviously up his level at the beginning of the fourth set and it was Petz having some problems holding serves. I believe after the third set, Rafa had decided to stand further from the baseline to return Petz's second serves, that's why Petz had to fight harder to hold serves, at the same time Petz was getting a bit tired that's why he had to serve more second serves. Rafa did hold his next service game easily to get a 2-1 lead in the fourth set. The momentum had clearly shifted to Rafa, and so to say that Rafa needed a tactical MTO then didn't seem convincing. He would be breaking his own momentum then.
I do believe his knee/thigh was hurting and he had the MTO after his own service game as he would not want to wait till the set is finished which may take quite a while.

Philipp Petzschner's presser:

http://www.wimbledon.org/en_GB/news/interviews/2010-06-26/ 201006261277586487650.html

I don't know what to make of Nadal's injury time-out. I suppose only Rafa knows precisely what he was doing. He could have been employing a little gamemanship, or it could have been a real (minor) injury. The rest of us can only guess.

It DOES seem that a contributing factor in Nadal's decision was to disrupt the rhythm of the macth. Nevertheless, I am willing to believe Rafa when he says it was a real injury, unless there is incontrovertable evidence otherwise. I can find no definite reason to doubt him.

Cheryl - I liked your blog.

@luckystar,

Hope i can speak honestly to you without drawing flak.. When I was watching the match, i really felt that nadal was asked to take that MTO and took it and I felt it wasnt fair on petzch since the match turned from there..

That said, i am no longer sure it was not a genuine TO, since rafa said that his knees were hurting.. i have al lot of belief in the integrity of these players and i prefer to take them at face value, so if rafa says that he really needed the MTO, fine with me..

My point was just that IF it was a tactical MTO, rafa should acknowledge it and give petzch the credit that the hottest player on tour needed to use a tactic like that to beat him

@cheryl.. 3 minutes is a huge amount of time!! The players have to enter a zone to be able to hit those shots.. a few seconds could be enough to bring them down from such a level.. for fed and rafa and other great players who operate at such stratospheric levels always, a 3 min time out might no affect much but for lower ranked players, it might be the difference between winning and losing.. once they take their feet of the pedal, it is hard to get back to that level.. which is what happened today..

On a side not, my friend who is a nadal fan is of the opinion that it is high time rafa got a new coach :)

edited by administrator

seethetruth - no need to post such long post. People are entitled to their own opinions. We do not need people to tell us how they feel about Rafa, we all can have our own opinions. Thank you!

@seethetruth,
pls get a life and stop this obsessive copy pasting. You won't convince any real tennis fan to question rafa's integrity! we know him oo well for that.. casual fans may sway of course.


Now let me address your post:

"Is it possible that Uncle Toni passes coaching tips to Rafa via talking sideways to Carlos Costa, and that Rafa reads lips?"

Rafa reads lips now? brilliant, is there any limit to this sort of absurdity? I can see that spanish being spoken coaching would be hard to spot but a lot of the umpires tend to be spanish. Serena can actually read lips? okay....

"In this match against Petzxchner, Rafa himself said that he changed his strategy in the fourth set, and it got him the victory. This was during the time he received a warning for coaching."

That is called circumstantial evidence!

Two things happened after the TO,

rafa upped his level, petzchie lowered his guard and when these two things happen, there can be only one victor.

Please, i think Toni is being given way too much credit, he is just lucky to be nadal's uncle he wouldnt have a coaching job in the top 100 otherwise! Rafa thinks on court and comes up with ways to win matches, to attribute all that to illegal coaching is ludicrous.


" Rafa had a meltdown in that match, argued with the chair umpire, and demanded to see the tournament referee if he got another warning.

The commentators went back and looked hard for it, but didn't see it."

So they couldnt find anything? So couldnt the umpire had made a mistake and that is why rafa was angry? and just sitting down and talking to the umpire is not a "meltdown" i have seen the match.


"Rafa deliberately called the trainer in order to throw Roger off?"

If you really think that is all it takes to beat fed, please take a look at the 16 Gs itles.. rafa played one hell of a match and it was a classic, dont spoil that wonderful match.



As for the posts on the wimby site you have quoted, those are mostly fans who follow tennis only during GS and they are just echoing what the commnetators force fed them. Nobosy should take that seriously

FIG - so my question is not being answered. How then an MTO is not tactical. How do we know that is this a tactical one or not? We may never know and if Rafa didn't acknowledge it, do you take it that he is not honest or are you giving him the benefit of doubt?

I don't really care what others think really, they can criticize him or stop supporting him if they want. They are entitled to their own opinions and own actions.

To think that one MTO can caused Petz to lost the match is in a way an insult to Petz really. His drop in level of play is due more to fatigue and also Rafa's raising his level of play in the last two sets. Rafa was returning Petz's serves better in the last two sets.

seethetruth you actually need to see the truth: go and read Rafa's post match interview and if you still don't believe him than you are nothing but Rafa hater...and if any of us Rafa fans spent time reading what people who cheered for Petz had to say in their despair that Rafa won and is still there and that he will be standing in the way of their favorites to progress in Wimby than it would only mean that we have a lot of time to waste as you obviously do...

great post, FIG! thank you!

Nadal's presser:

http://www.wimbledon.org/en_GB/news/interviews/2010-06-26/ 201006261277586139921.html

"Q. You were saying something from the baseline to the umpire, shouting at him, gesturing at him. What were you saying to him?

RAFAEL NADAL: I was saying, We gonna talk with the supervisor later.

Q. And did you?

RAFAEL NADAL: Not yet."

Sounds kind of ominous to me...

Anyway, Nadal has said flat out that he didn't take the medical time-out to disrupt Petzschner's rhythm. I am not inclined to doubt him.

@ luckystar, if rafa says that it was a needed MTO, i dont need to give him the 'benefit of the doubt', I believe him since he said so.

(Difference between a tactical MTO and genuine one would depend on if the player was having any actual difficulty in playing due to an injury/sprain or other physical discomfort.)

I was just saying that if it wasnt then it should be acknowledged since it is only fair and I give credit to fed for that. i think rafa is just getting needless flak here.. i mean toni might have tried coaching today but rafa asked him to shut up and i am sue they would ahve a heart to heart about it after the match.. maybe toni is an excitable guy who like to pour out his wisdom, but rafa hardly needs a warning or hsi wisdom in a tight fight.

I have never seen rafa get on court coaching even though he has been warned many times.. What I do know is that Fed hates it and he like to play by the rules of the game and gets very irritated when anybody flaunts it..

If all you dirt slingers want to know what real on court illegal coaching is, please go back and watch the US open final and how delpotro was being coached and being told when to challenge etc and getting away with it.. you could see how frustrated fed was and it really threw him off that the umpire was also ignoring the rules..

If rafa employed such tactics against fed, i am sure fed would have reacted, he didnt, and he is a good barometer to see if rules are being followed. So please lay off rafa and get behind some real rule breakers.

FEDistheGOAT, 6/27/10 1:14 AM

Thank you so much for such a great post and taking the time to contradict each stupid point that seethetruth posted. So nice to see a die hard federer fan sticking his neck out and defending nadal! I am sure you are still cheering for federer but the post was purely because of your respect for the game and for the players who play it day in day out. I dont think anyone can really be a fan of both fed and nadal simultaneously!

I hope I can reciprocate this gesture someday by standing up for federer when he is having needless mud slung at him. We need to respect these champions no matter whom we support and want to win, your post is a good example of how a good tennis fan would respond to this sort of rabid hate. In the other forum edvaudvalex has given us an example of the other end of the spectrum.

champ7, the umpire is going to lose his job? He hee.

FedistheGoat,

You live in your rose tinted glass world my friend!

Please dont pretend to be a federer fan, you are a disgrace to all federer fans!

How can any tennis fan like a guy like nadal?? Nadal is a prick; a major douche.

People say he is nice, but I've never liked him. I can barely stand him in fact: his ugly, juvenile snarls and frowns and angry displays. If his mangled English is the extrapolation of ?nice? then a violently gesturing Wookie might be interpreted as ?nice? as soon as starts speaking.


Also, I have a problem with schizophrenics. I don?t know maybe it?s just me but I always thought people like that belong in a mental institution not on some media pedestal. ?Nice? after a match (according to his ballsack-holders), but total jerk during? Can you say bi-polar, schizophrenic, possibly borderline personality disorder? What a creep?compare that thing to humanitarian, classy, human, honest, lighthearted and professional Federer.


Anyway, Nadal always gets major props for his clay domination but clay season is overlong and overrated. Grass is the classic surface; Wimbledon is the most prestigious slam in the world and it's an absolute disgrace in ATP tennis how clay season is so long with so many 1000 point master events. It's just blatant idiocy and disregard for the historic significance of Wimbledon & grass. There should be no more than 1 masters event on clay and the whole season should be cut in less than half of what it is today. If anything grass season should be the longest based on sheer prestige and history. Right now in atp tennis you have a bunch of Spanish & South American guys (because that's the popular surface in Spain and South America) who eat up points on clay every year, hence advance in rankings because of the whole clay bias/slant and then predictably shrivel away on most other surfaces. It's not fair to the rest of the world, not to mention the majority of players who don't enjoy/prefer clay. The most popular surface is hard court but that?s another story altogether.


My point is, the world doesn't revolve around Spain and South America and especially considering the reason that we even have tennis today. Modern tennis owes its survival to England and the lawn tennis that became hugely popular there in the 19th century. This England period preserved "tennis" gave its modern variant its real birth.






Back to Nadal: I've never liked angry-teenage-boy, Mr. Passive Aggressive, air-humping, spastic gestures Nadal and his Mafioso-looking weirdo Uncle Toni, who looks more like some thug-creep who just disposed a duffel bag full of body parts rather than a civilized tennis coach. Oh boy I could keep going!...

Thank you FIG for your post. I'm happy that a Fed fan/true tennis fan comes out and gives an unbias view about the whole incident. I'm disappointed that even some commentators jumped into conclusion without finding out the facts, and they had misled some viewers into believing that Rafa was employing gamesmanship. Shame on them, they should at least gave Rafa the benefit of doubts instead of doubting his integrity right away.

seethetruth - who cares whether you like Rafa or not. You need not tell the people here how you feel about him, that's entirely your own personal feelings, we are not interested. Please spare our eyes and spare our fingers scrolling through all your long posts. Oh I see now, you may be that poster 'GoMuzza' or something like that, jumping at such an opportunity to do some mug slinging at Rafa.

seethetruth: Is it really necessary to post all of those comments? Couldn't you just post your opinion - which looks like it would be something similar to the comments you posted? All the comments you posted are people spouting their opinions. It seems a lot of people here disagree with you. Such comments are not likely to sway someone of deferring opinion, and it is actually something of a waste of time and space.

FEDistheGOAT - I agree with you, absolutely. Rafa has not given me any reason to believe that he is a liar, and that is what anyone who says that he took the MTO as a rhythm-breaking tactic is suggesting. I am going to take his word for it.

luckystar, I dont care much about rafa. I will call it as I see it and I respect class tennis. If you can't handle the truth, please go back to your nursery. When the rules of tennis is being violated like this and the person is being applauded as some sort of messiah, I am sorry I cant stand still and let people like you and fedistheGoat (what is with the stupid name man?) defend a person like nadal who brings the game more and more into disrepute everyday.

Nadal even refused to see the queen and his fans speak as if the queen was an old fossil and why would anyone have time to see her.. If fed had not found time to see her, that would have been another instance of him being haughty right? But he doesnt consider himself above others and was there to bow and make polite conversation. So was djoko, so was Serena and murray did that might pleasing bow, could rafa have managed a bow as classy as that with his enormous backside jutting up into the heavens, possibly offending the queen beyond measure? Every other top player was there when she came, why is it that only rafa is above everyone else and beyond the pale of all tennis etiquette?

champion7, I was under the impression this was a genuine tennis community.
I see now that there are only nadal fans, fed haters and rafa-fans masquerading as fed fans (fedisthegoat) here. Since that is the case, I can see why my effort would seem like a waste of time.. but i am sure there are people who respect tennis here too and want to see the thug brought to some justice finally.. the tennis commuinty now has a chance to stand up to a bully who has been playing rogue with tennis blatantly till now and now we have a chance to bring him to justice atleast in the eyes of the world. We should take it, if we care at least an iota for tennis.

No more response from me to you seethetruth. Go on, carry on with your way if you please, but do know that nothing will change here for so many Rafa fans, you are simply wasting your time. I actually see you name and skip your posts, ha ha that is the best way to treat people like you. Good bye!!

FEDistheGOAT , 6/26/10 11:43 PM,

Now this is the kind of comment that makes me so frustrated! You insist on somehow finding a way to justify Fed's "gamesmanship" toilet break at the AO, yet in your mind it's okay because he was open about it! Are you serious with this type of reasoning? What on earth can you be thinking? It doesn't matter about being open or not open or telling the world every little thing in your head, it's still gamesmanship, period!

Now for the sake of being open, has anyone noted that Rafa has already withdrawn from DC because of his knee? He will need to get treatment for it after Wimbledon. How much he can play and how long he will last, only he and his team know for sure.

It is unconscionable for anyone to question Rafa taking an injury timeout, when the history with his knees is so well known. Once upon a time he would probably have pushed through the pain or even played on one leg, the way he did at the 2009 Rotterdam final against Murray. He pushed himself too far last year, so of course he doesn't want to risk making the same mistake again. He is being cautious and reasonable and taking care of his health.

If Rafa needed to use this so-called stalling tactic, then why didn't he think of doing the same thing against Hasse when he was down two sets to one? That's what I am reading on other forums! Rafa fakes an injury when he is losing! Unbelievable!

Rafa is dealing with knee problems that could be career ending. He and his team and his doctor are doing everything possible to give him the chance to play for several more years. This is not a joke and not something to dismiss lightly! Rafa has given too much of himself for this sport to be trashing and demeaned in this manner.

luckystar, thanks for telling me how to deal with your posts. Wish everyone would do the same to you.

If your opinion can never be changed, it is not an opinion, it is by definition a dogma. and I dont like to talk to dogmatic followers. Rafa is not a relegion for heaven sake, just a freak who made it good. Grow up please.

seethetruth,

I don't share share your views, so what? You had better get used to it. We are all very different people, with very different views. Do I have to call Rafa a 'thug' to be a tennis fan? I am sorry, I don't agree with that at all.

I call myself a fan of Roger Federer, but I like and support Rafa as well, and many other tennis players besides.

Nobody is forcing you champ 7, I express what i feel, you are free to ignore/acknowledge me as you please. That's all.

Folks, keep the copy and pasting to a minimum, please. There is no reason to page through line after line of a post somebody made on a different message board.

NNY, I agree with you. owning up to gamesmanship doesn't make it any more palatable.

But you can't have it both ways. If Federer really DID have to go to the bathroom (which he says he did), and he just used a time that was...let's say convenient to him, is it really any different than what Rafa did today?

I believe Federer had to go to the bathroom. I also believe Rafa's knee was sore or twinging at least. But I also think that the both used strategy in the timing of attending to their needs. In my book, that's gamesmanship, and the fact that it was effective in both cases lends weight to the strategic nature of the time out.

But it doesn't mean that I'm calling Rafa a faker either.

Rafa's presser says it all for me. People are going to see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe. Simple as that. Rafa has said his piece and I have no reason to disbelieve him. This really is a non-issue for me.

the sun was in his eyes, he couldnt serve, plus he wanted a bathroom break, so it was the ideal time to take one. How is it cheating by any definition?

Faking an injury getting a trainer on court, shouting at the umpire and threatening that 'we will see later' etc.. that is what rafa does, and it is different. Or isnt it?

By the way, Petzschner does seem to imply that nadal was faking. Isnt this faint irony i detect in what he is saying? I think he was obviously irritated by it...

look at this:

Commentators like Boris Becker and Patrick McEnroe reportedly wondered aloud if Rafa?s tactics were more gamesmanship than real injury. And Petzschner made this comment after the match (via ESPN):

?I thought he was moving great,? the German said. ?I only could say if I would be injured like this once I would be happy [to be moving that well]. No, but I don?t know. Maybe he had something. Maybe it was just a clever part to take a timeout there. I don?t know.?

nice article cheryl but i was hoping you would mention tony nadal's coaching during the live match against haase and then petzschner. i'm sure espn box who covers the tournament can provide some facts. great article indeed.

I'll reiterate what I said in response to your comment on the other thread, rfzr.

Were you there? Are you fluent in Spanish? You have no idea what was said, and you have no idea whether Rafa even heard anything.

" i'm sure espn box who covers the tournament can provide some facts."

Then perhaps we can wait for that, instead of having to read through your blowhard opinions based on *no* facts.

I'm sure the ITF can handle the matter without your help, as they've limped along all these years without you so far.

*eyeroll*

true, but this is the tennis blog and i'm allowed to comment/discuss. i highly doubt ITF will try and tackle this issue.

Are you seriously suggesting that Toni Nadal would be so stupid as to shout coaching instructions above the din on centre court for the whole world to hear?

What he does do is to get very excitable and shout encouragement. Maybe it is possible he wanted to know from Rafa how bad the problem was with the knees. I dont know if that is breaking the coaching rule or not.

Doesn't the fact that fed was open about it make a difference? it does to me.. i don't mind rafa taking tactical time out since it is within the rules but he should be open about it and admit that the superlative play of his opponent merited such a tactic..
FEDistheGOAT , 6/26/10 11:43 PM

Words fail me!

Nothing wrong with Rafa's tactics.
He won it cleanly, Petz was good but not good enough.
Fed & Rafa are champions, so it will take some effort to knock them out.
If you cannot withstand few minutes stoppage then you are not good enough.

This whole thing is incredible!
If time-outs are allowed, then they will be taken for either a real problem or as a tactic. Since we can't get inside the brain of a player to see which it is, then arguing about it is pointless!!
If Nadal takes a tactical time-out, his opponent can do the same. Both players are resting so it could actually favor the rival, so it's not much of a tactic anyway.
As far as coaching, the coach is sitting right there, there are going to be looks exchanged. There is NO way to avoid coaching if they really want to do it. Even if they put the coach in a box, he could find a way to do it. So why not just allow it. It's a stupid rule and I don't think it would make any difference on the results. If they want to keep things quiet, they could allow non-verbal coaching.

This is going to be a difficult post to write. I have now watched the match again, and have found the exact spots in which Rafa felt discomfort in his right leg. It's hard to pick up, because you have to be concentrating on Rafa and looking at him to spot it. Here are the facts as I have them.

I knew that something was wrong with Rafa in the latter stages of the third set. I could see it on his face. I assumed it had something to do with his elbow or arm, since he had already called out the trainer earlier.

In the fourth set, at 1-0 Rafa and Petz serving, I first noticed something after 30-30. Rafa was facing the court waiting to receive serve with his back to the camera. You can clearly see that he lifted his right leg and pulled it back up behind him to try and stretch it.

The second time I noticed something was in the same game. This game went on for some time as Petz struggled to hold his serve. At another advantage Petz, Rafa was bending over to wait for the serve. He had both hands on his racket, but took his right hand and cupped it on his right knee and tried to extend and stretch it. This is easy to miss if you are not paying attention, but it was a clear indication that something was bothering him. Petz ended up holding his serve and Rafa then held to make it 2-1 in his favor. As he walked to the sideline for the changeover, he was grimacing and in obvious pain. That is when he called the trainer for the second time. As he checked Rafa out, I became extremely concerned because he was looking at Rafa's right knee. I had flashes of this year's AO come into my mind. I actually became upset, because I thought that Rafa was going to retire. Then the trainer concentrated on Rafa's thigh. That seemed to help.

I spent the rest of the match worrying that any second Rafa would retire. Rafa did exactly the right thing in calling for the trainer. He had every reason to be concerned, since this is the same area where he had the tendinitis last year.

The other issue is this so-called "gamesmanship" on Rafa's part. First, Petz has just nearly been broken by Rafa. He was not ahead, did not have momentum, and in fact seemed to be struggling. When Rafa came back on court, Petz was again serving. The massage and treatment seemed to help him move and he broke Petz. Let me point out that Petz had his shot at break point, but it went wide. That was his mistake, not Rafa's! Nobody took anything away from Petz. Rafa was acting in his own best interests and within the rules.

Then again in the fifth set at 2-1 Rafa with Petz serving, I saw Rafa again pull up kind of limping. Even John MacEnroe pointed it out. He said that Rafa felt something again. At 30-0 in that game, Rafa was on court waiting for Petz to serve and could be clearly seen stretching his leg back several times. So much for faking an injury!

cheryl,

I love your blogs and your writing. You know that! I understand that you did not accuse Rafa of cheating, but unintentionally you may have fueled all this controversy and speculation about Rafa not needing any medical treatment. I think it might have been better to wait, watch the match again carefully, and also listen to Rafa's official post-match press conference in which he discussed this problem with his right knee. He has withdrawn from DC and said that he will get treatment after Wimbledon. Sometimes it helps to know the facts.

I appreciate the endless accolades for Isner and Mahut, however, neither of them is dealing with chronic knee tendonitis that can be career threatening. They made a heroic effort, but I see no need to compare Rafa to them and find him wanting. Rafa has given much to this sport and deserves the benefit of the doubt. He has never been one to call the trainer at the drop of a hat, like Djoker and Delpo. It is not at all uncommon to see players in slams having to call the trainer during matches for various injuries.

In no way did Rafa's MTO do anything to Petz or hurt his chances of winning. He hurt himself. I think we lost the real story here - a courageous champion battling a recurrence of the same knee problem that has plagued him in the past. I want Rafa to stay around for several more years. His team and doctor seem to be trying to work with him to help him do just that.

I say - let Rafa alone! He deserves better than what he has gotten here.

roger frauderer is the biggest cheat of them all.
the mug has excuses for every loss.

roger rasheed is a crook, a mafia boss.
mary carillo and patrick mcenroe are fedtards.
patrick mcenroe is a nobody, he has been living off his brothers c**k for the last 30 years.

the fedtards cannot handle the fact that nadal is federer's boogeyman.
nadak has denied federer many times.

grass is for cows anyway, england is a primitive country still living in the 19th century.

only way to shut these fedtards up is for nadal to win wimbledon this year.

It's ironic that last year Federer was the number benificiary of Rafa's injuries. Him who was quoted as saying that he did not think that there is problem with Rafa's knees, insinuating then, as his fans now do, that Rafa was faking injuries.

Federer and his Fedtards really deserve each other!!!

* number one*

tennis forums are buzzing on nadal being coached by uncle toni ... where there's smoke, there's fire.

*during matches*

NNY - good post. I re-watched the match and yes I noticed Rafa lifting his right leg and pull it back up behind with his hand while waiting for Petz's serve at 1-0 fourth set. We may miss this during the match as we are so nervous watching the match.

I really don't know what this fuss is all about, as Petz himself also took a MTO. If there is any shift of momentum, during the last two sets, a good player should be able to steady himself and try to regain the momentum, and not let a 3 minutes break affect him for two sets. I'm confident that with or without the MTOs, Rafa would still beat Petz in the end. We see what Rafa can do during that Haase match, and this Petz match turns out to be similar to that one. For me no argument there, Rafa wins it fair and square and he puts in lots of effort to win it in five sets. Credit where credit is due, well done Rafa!

A different kind of blog..
Even though the introdution(you know what I mean :P) is missing, you still hit the nail on the head.
Just like you said, we don't know what happened there.
But, believeing that Rafa is a gentleman, I would give him the benefit of doubt.
As for fed, well, he had openly said he took the toilet break for the shadows to lengthen..
That is why, we know definitely, he used the rules to his advantage.
Here, all we can do is speculate.
We have no definitive proof that Rafa did not have any niggles.
And even Petz took a timeout, you know!!
About Isner and Mahut, that particular day, they were superhumans, just like Nadal during 2009 AO.

rfzr - it doesn't matter at all. Tennis forums are well, tennis forums, just like this place. People can post whatever they want, and most of the time, its either about Fed or about Rafa, nothing new. Everyone can choose who he/she wants to support, if some choose not to trust Rafa and don't want to support him, so be it. It won't worry me, one of Rafa's fans, as I know why I supports him, so do many of his other supporters.

Native, I completely agree with you...

With all the discussions the facts are that Nadal always take more time between the points and it is hardly making any trouble to him. His Uncle very often talks and makes signs and he is seldom warned, and he very often takes a medical timeout after he loses a set (nearly every time) - and still people are talking about fair Nadal and sportsmanship?

As far as the toilet break of Federer at AO against Navy is concerned - he hardly ever takes any break and he was actually joking about this "strategy" during the on-court interview with Jim, you don't have to believe all his jokes - but he is one of the very few who doesn't look at his box, who hardly ever gets some treatment and HE HAS NEVER RETIRED IN A MATCH AND HE PLAYED NEARLY 1000 of them!!!

HE NEVER RETIRE IN A MATCH, HE JUST CRY A RIVER WHEN HE LOSES!

@ATR, hahahahha..no matter how disgusting ur comments are u do make me laugh, anyway please do not use such words for federer !

NNY - surely you have to understand that my blog did not stir anything up. People were throwing around the word "cheater" before the match even ended and posters on every tennis message board on the web have been in a frenzy about it. I can hardly take credit for that.

Its a strange comment when people said that Fed did not retire from any match. Do you know why he did not retire? That is because before he has the chance to retire, he already withdraw from the tournament. For eg, he withdraw from the Paris Masters 2008 just before his QF match with Blake, because he had a back pain. The same year, he was supposed to play at Stockholm but withdrew, probably due to back pain again. In 2009, he withdrew from Dubai before the tournament started, due to back injury too.

So what I can say about Fed not retiring from matches is he is smart enough to withdraw if he doesn't feel well, before he take to the court. Unlike Rafa, who knew that he was not well during the same Paris Masters of 2008, but still went out to play in the QF against Davy and had to retire after the first set and got booed by the crowd. So Fed and Rafa do things differently, Rafa would go out there to try his best, if he really can't play, then he'll retire. Fed may think that its better to withdraw since he knows he won't be able to finish the match. Its just their different ways of handling things, so why hold it against Rafa that he retired from matches??

what a crap by mr cheryl.i think this is a compaign against rafa n mr cheryl might take some dollars or pounds for this.cheryl cheated us all.

I find this whole thing rather rediculous, it proves how much a lot of people really hate to see rafa succeed, check the polls from TT, people hav never been in rafa's favour. a whole lot more people HATE this guy. should TT post a poll asking "IF RAFA WILL WIN 2011 FRENCH" you'll notice that more people will be in the affirmative. Its really absurd to always view issues concerning rafa from his haters perspective.

in this "cheat" issue, how come nobody has given it a thot that possibly rafa was really hurt that was why he wasnt doing well untill the hurt was treated. rafa was so determined to win gainst rodick and denko, earlier in the year, why ddnt he take the MTO then or even against murray in AO.

isnt MTO part of tennis rules? so people shld stop taking toilet brakes or TOs. i stand to be corrected but my understanding of cheating is when one plays against the rules and benefits from it. maybe next time if rafa hits the courts with his knees strapped we will again shout "cheat" because the strap will have a psychological effect on his oponent. you guys should get a life. I'm really disappointed with cheryl for such a worthless and ill-thought blog. its blogs like this that bring tennis a bad name. This is a very terrible campaign chery, desist from it. pathetic!!

shahzad, u have shown ur maturity already by typing 'mr' cheryl ! hhahahahaha

sorry for posting this again on this thread but i want everyone , including cheryl to read it

in 2008 andy roddick said rafa 'can win in pain' and ' we know he has slams in pain too' ...so those who are curious why his movement didnt change even a bit before and after the timeout here is the explanation : nadal is a superhuman who can play in pain and win matches too, it is when the pain goes out of control that he retires. anyway, yesterday he said he didnt feel any serious pain HE JUST WANTED TO RELAX HIS QUAD MUSCLE THAT HAD GOT TIGHENED UP !!!so what is wrong??
why isnt any one offered any example to the aboev example i quoted ?? 2007 wimb final where rafa lead 4-0 against fed in the 4th set and had all sorts of rhythm going but still took a MTO and nothing obvious was seen to have changed in regards ot his movement before and after the , nadal had ALL THE MOMENTUM and RHYTHm so why did he take a timeout then?? he wanted to break his own rhythm?is he so generous to towards fed? HA HA...this is crap u ppl are coming up with ! the fact that nobody discussed petz timeout saying it was tactical too shows how much crap this is !!

You cannot compare Federer to Nadal in terms of coaching tactics, MTO's or retirement. They are as far apart as Australia is to the USA.

Federer doesn't have a coach. and has never retired in a match during the whole of his career.

The only reason this has been written is because of the hoopla written about rafa when he took a timeout to throw PP off his game. Rafa is the bad guy here. Not federer.


This just makes Federer?s non-dependence on MTOs or a coach so much more impressive.

I think these rafa tactics will be of no help against mentally tougher players like soderling or murray.

It will be near to impossible for mathieu to compete with a sly rafa pushing the envelope of rules like he is.

God knows mathieu has enough mental frailties he does not need any more thrown at him.

Finally good on the referee for cracking up on nadal?s illegal on-court coaching. I think every player should also remind the umpire to keep an eye on nadal?s time delaying tactics too.

Disgusting and disgraceful behaviour.

@fluer, what crap?

didnt fed take medical time out against murray in the 3rd set in the masters cup 08??? hoe fair is it to say he used it to disrupt muzza's rhythm ?? and thsi timeout was taken by a man who admitted HIMSELF that he used the toilet break against davy to lengthen the shadows , oz open 2010..

fed doesnt have a coach but he accused nadal of coaching after that rome 2006 battle...and the umpire,commentators and the supervisor concluded there was NOT ONE BIT OF COACHING involved !! how was that from fed?

i didnt have any intention of turning this in to a nadal-federer tussle but this CRAP POST from this bogus poster fluer has forced this reply and i was just defendinf rafa


once more...who is gona answer that example?? that wimb 07 one?? totally relevant!! why are u ignoring it?? face it !!

Rafa is the biggest MTO out there; the biggest baby crying injuries when he loses, but never when he wins.

But here watch your hero Nadal in this clip, if you have not
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak8GRRFBN54
Remind yourself of his bad sportsmanship.

its comical how these haters surface at this forum whenever rafael is having a bad time....these idiots were absent when rafa was winning everything some weeks back....waiting for something to come up...start spewing their negativity here again...pathetic losers

VAMOS RAFAEL!!!

PP thinks nadal is a cheat.

He broke his rhythm. Nadal knew exactly what he was doing. Read it for yourself.

What anyone else thinks is irrelevant.

PP should know.

He knew what nadal was doing.

Nadal knew what he was doing.

Disgraceful behaviour.

I didn't expect this low level of sportsmanship from anyone.

Rafa has lost a lot of fans because of what he did yesterday. Just go and read the wimbledon website. Hundreds of rafa fans saying they are ashamed to be a fan.

Q. Your timeout or...

PHILIPP PETZSCHNER: No, his timeout. Yeah, it was pretty clever, I think. Right now I'm not happy. This will maybe come tomorrow or in two days.

Right now I'm just pissed off and sad that I lost the match.

Q. Are you suggesting there might have been a bit of gamesmanship involved there?

PHILIPP PETZSCHNER: I cannot say this. You have to ask him what it was. But I didn't feel any difference afterwards or before.

So he was ?? I thought he was moving great. I only could say if I would be injured like this once I would be happy. No, but I don't know. Maybe he had something. Maybe it was just a clever part to take a timeout there.

I don't know. He played really good, really solid the whole time. I had two really good sets, but I couldn't keep the level up till the end.


Q. Is that the only difference between a player like you and him, that he's clever enough to know when to take a timeout maybe?

PHILIPP PETZSCHNER: No. I don't assume that he didn't had anything, that there was just a timeout for no reason. I mean, you know that he has problems with his knee all the time. I think he got treatment for his knee again.

So I don't assume that he just did to break my rhythm. But that's what happened, and that's mostly my fault. Yeah, that's what I have to work on.

Disgraceful Fedtard,

If your rhythm could be adversely affected by a 3 minute MTO, then you don't deserve to win a match, much less become a champion. Got it Fleurtard?

bla bla bla and the crap continues...anyway my quoted example still remains untouched becoz it has a reality in it which no hater here can face !

take it up with the writer of this blog - are you disagreeing with her? There was nothing wrong with rafa. You know it. The whole world knows it!

Petzschner's serve was NOT weakening, Monalysa. Well...not until Rafa took the time out, anyway.

Let me ask this. Did you see ANYTHING in Rafa's game before OR after the time out that lead you to think he was hurt? because I didn't.

And medical time outs would not have given Isner an extra store of energy against De Bakker. My point is - if you aren't HURT, you don't call for a trainer. Period. Being tired doesn't count as being hurt.
cherylmurray
, 6/26/10 9:22 PM

you calling out the writer? you saying she is a hater? face the truth. rafa is a liar.

at the end of the day, i am very happy with cheryl and his fellow rafa haters. it just proved how far people wld go to bring rafa down. i had expected cheryl to comment on the post by vamosrafa but he quietly ignored it, same goes for other rafa haters.

all i see here is a bunch of retards who are disapointed that rafa won. pls leave this guy alone, dont make another micheal jackson out of him i beg u guys. this trashing is not good for tennis, it could be sombody else later.

all u haters ask yourselves, why aint u complaining about the TO that PP took? are u really being fair in ur analysis? however, thanks for exposing urselves. i promise u, rafa will mek ur hearts burn because he is not done yet. keep hating but brace urselves because rafa aint goin nowhere!!!

love from Lagos Nigeria

i am not gona stop , why isnt any one answering?? in the example i have posted, wimb 07 final 4th set there was NOTHING diff in nadal's game before and after the MTO back then...in that moment rafa had ALL The momentum in the world and he had so much rhythm after breaking federer twice in a row (something that fed might nt have never faced before) but still rafa took the MTO !!! so what say all the haters ??
in this match petz didnt even have the same type of momentum nadal enjoyed in that moment (that moment was 10 times more important aswell) , petz did have more momentum but didnt nadal turn the tables in his favor SOOO QUIKLY against haase?? whats the excuse there??? nadal was coached by the ball kids secretly??? he infliced some magic or something to change the momeuntum?? JUST stop this shit, nadal has done this so many times before; going down in the match and then winning the next 3 in lop-sided fashion or atleast without any scare, e.g youzhny match in 07 4th round, lost first 2 sets and then something flared up in his game he raced away 6-0 6-1 6-2 i think !!!
against haase same happened , haase was left clueless as nadal grabbed momentum so quickly in the 4th set !

lastly , here is a fact hard to digest:

nadal has the BEST RECORD in the 5th set among all active players !! he has a career 14-3 mark (82.4%) !!! nobody among top 5 even comes close to this ! ferrer has the second best but among top guys murray has a 9-5 record (64.3), not sure abt fed but its around 58% i think ( so u can think who needs to use tactics to win the 5th sets)

so like it or not , this fact suggests that rafa finds SOME WAY to get past his opponents in the 5th set, it was just a coincidence with this this MTO thing as my example proves it so no big thing .... u people saying nadal won 83% of those 5 setters by taking MTo..hahahahahaha !!!

REPLY TO THIS post with logic all those trble makers..

and cheryl, not calling u anything as i love ur writings but i would like you to comment on the example i posted, please tell why did nad take that MTO when NOTHING obv was seen to change in his game before and after the TO. thanks .

"nadal has the BEST RECORD in the 5th set among all active players"
Are you basing this on number of wins,or percentage wise? Bcoz he doesnt have the best five set record in you look at it percentage wise.

vamosrafa - I'm happy to reply to your post.

1. the medical time out wasn't in the fifth set, it was in the fourth. He was trying to GET to the fifth set. I don't understand your argument there.

2. I never said I thought he wasn't injured. What I said was that the timing of the MTO was strategic - and he himself said the injury was nothing serious and that he felt fine.

3. I also didn't say that every MTO he's ever taken has been gamesmanship, so your example about Wimbledon 2007 is also confusing.

4. He was playing great tennis against Haase. He was NOT playing great tennis against PP. The "turn the tables" had to do with a slight lowering of Haase's first serve percentage.

If it makes you feel better to think that it wasn't gamesmanship, by all means do so. If you honestly feel that Rafa couldn't have waited for his knee rubdown until his own serve (after all, it wasn't Petzschner's fault Rafa needed that massage), you are perfectly within your rights.

As always, this blog is simply my opinion, not fact and not news.

A three min MTO caused Petschner to fall apart? How on earth does he get past tv commercials and changeovers? The idea is ludicrous. Good catch on Rafa stretching his hamstring early in the 4th set, btw. I think the tight hamstring was not causing problems with running as much as bending to get down to low balls.

As for the infamous bathroom breaks, yeah, I think everyone has abused those, including Rafa. Seems to be practically a tradition. Afraid we'll have to accept those as a part of modern tennis.

In Miami 2010, Rafa's left knee was clearly bothering him - that's why he was pounding on it and cursing at it in frustration late in the match. He did NOT call a trainer, presumably because he knew there was nothing a trainer could do for it. You seriously think he divined that Petsch is so fragile that an mto would push him over the edge, but it wasn't worth trying on Roddick? Or Murray in Amsterdam 2009? AO 2010? Or DelPo in USO 2009? Just matches off the top of my head where Rafa was clearly both hurting and losing, and did not ask for treatment. How about Doha 2010 when he lost to Davydenko after being up a set? Ummm, FO 2009? Nope, no trainer call. Madrid 2009, semi or final? Winbly 2008? The guy has NO history of unnecessary trainer calls in close matches, wining or losing. He deserves every benefit of the doubt.

Fleur, we noticed that you disappeared the moment Rafa won Roland Garros! Now you saw the chance to surface your ugly head once again. Everyone, we just have to wait for chr18 and torres9. Only a matter of time although I rather suspect chr18 has already emerged under a different ame. Now let's wait for him to surface after reasonable time just to show he's not afraid. I gather they've all cleaned the eggs from their faces by now.

I concur with Vrael - pathetic losers! Anyway, it's like luckystar says, they can think whatever they want. I don't believe anyone said these players were perfect. The haters and their rants are not going to stop Rafa fans from supporting him.

Fleur is just disgusted that Rafa won and ruined his celebration.

an honest win doesn't bother anyone, a win with gamesmanship + coaching during the game involved does.

cheryl in her reply chooses the words carefully in order not to cause the stir among _________ (fill it out to your likings), but what she generally says, yes, rafa was using the mto as tactics in order to disrupt the flow of his opponent.

And she also said that this in ONLY her opinion. What she said was not FACT but an OPINION!!! Learn to differentiate bwtween the two.

her opinion as a tennis pundit has a special WEIGHT here at TT.

petzschner in his interview pointed out that he did not feel there was any coaching going out there...he said he only heard a "VAMOS" from rafa's camp.......and here these idiots are still blaming him....pathetic!!!

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5hRQHsD0YfGf46yW JnlOB_iQlW3Sg


petzschner clearly says wat he thinks!!!

so cheryl is she sorry vamos .i think we shd respect woman.but pl dont write stupid blogs it hurts.

WHOA!!
this has grown into another battle..
and as usual it is a combination of some sensible fans and the likes of fleur..

now, rfzr at , 6/28/10 7:09 AM says this
"her opinion as a tennis pundit has a special WEIGHT here at TT."

of course rfzr, you said it right..
her opinion here carries the same amount of weight when she said "Federer is the Sportsman of the Year again ? and I must be missing something"
her opinion now carries the same amount of weight as when she said "Federer just doesn't want to play Nadal"
Oh well, when she will write about djokoboy's strong health and immunity, his tendency to fight on without retiring, be sure to remember, her opinion will carry the same weight even then..

clayking,

I was watching the match , when nadal was 2 sets to 1 down and he called the trainer, I told my brother thats it, the game is almost over and nadal will take it in fifth.

Because these tactics works to the lower ranked players.Because they lose their concerntration very easily..

Perhaps we should allow vuvuzelas at Wimbledon and then no-one would hear any coaching .......

Of course champ..
nadal would have won it..
and what makes you think he won't have won it if he had not taken the timeout??
there is a reason why he is so good..
that's because he can fight from brink..

clayking,

that everyone knows but the moment he took the time out , it was all over for his oponent.At least I belived it.

@cheryl, thanks for replying. the reason I gave that example was this : look, nadal took a MTO in that 2007 match when nothing obvious seemed to be bothering him but still he took it despite being the rhythm FULLY at his side, so can u explain why he took that MTO when NOTHING obvious seemed wrong? did he want federer to settle down and calm down to get back into the match ! NOPES, the same happened here and this time unfortunately the rhythm wasnt with him so ppl start blaming him for gamesmanship?! you said "Let me ask this. Did you see ANYTHING in Rafa's game before OR after the time out that lead you to think he was hurt? because I didn't." so now I ask you to answer the same qstion in regards to the MTO he took in that 2007 final ??!! becoz there was NOTHING obv in his movement seen to have changed my dear.. i know u have offered ur opinion and i respect it , thanks again for ur response :)

"Perhaps we should allow vuvuzelas at Wimbledon and then no-one would hear any coaching ......."

deuce, my boss at the office looked at me quizzically when I LOL at this. if i get fired, you're to blame. :-)

i don't think cheryl is to be blamed for this raging battle. it's the fedtards who mistook her opinion as gospel truth and use it to assert that Rafa is a liar who faked his injury.

phoenix: my turn to LOL ! Now, head down, shuffling paper, looking very, very serious and extremely busy for rest of day, would hate u 2 b sacked.

phoenix, cheryl had her intentions well cut out, check her first line "they just bend the rules to suit their needs".
so taking an MTO is bending the rules? how biased!! some people will stop at nothing to bring rafa down

damianthorn,

the blog is "Federer and Nadal aren't cheaters....", so cheryl tried to say here is that both Fed and Nadal knows the rule when they can take time out and when they are fealing the heat , they simply take advantage of it.

champ, u fail to answer the obvious, is taking a TO a bend of rules in tennis? if not why the choice of word then

damianthorn,

the rules are made for those who indeed need time out (injury or toilet etc) but it is unethical to use it as a tactics against your oponent when you are down in the match.

no one is blaming cheryl here ! not her fault that this battle evolved!

deuce - if the vuvuzelas start showing up at tennis matches, I'm changing jobs. :)

damianthorn - of COURSE taking a MTO can be bending the rules.

vamosrafa - if I remember that time out properly, he did obviously tweak his knee. I'm pretty sure NBC showed a replay of him landing on it funny. And I'm also pretty sure he got taped on that occasion.

It seems to me that what you all are really saying is "Rafa wouldn't do that". Of course, Roger "wouldn't do that" either. Except he DID do it and admitted it, too.

I find it interesting that Petzschner said the EXACT same thing about the match as I did. :D

Amazing how certain people here will post & paste other people's negative opinions from other blogs, sites & forums thus justifying their own biased opinions. Where are all the other positive comments from those self-same blogs/forums/sites, believe me, there are heaps. Until the powers that be decide to run & re-run those tapes proving that Rafa was coached beyond a shadow of a doubt, my faith in him, his honesty, humility & fighting spirit will remain unchanged. How many players do have time between points to read lips or attempt to analyse gestures, or even hear the voice of a coach beyond the din of the crowd is beyond me.
Of course there are Rafa Haters out there who still believe that throughout his career he has been faking injury after injury, even when he withdrew from matches it was still a ploy, yet his knees have and always will be a big health issue for him. Why do so many people find this so hard to believe? Does one really have to hate one player in order the appreciate and enjoy the other? The mind boggles!!!

Isbeau, I too am from Oz and instinct or intuition tells me that Rafa will win this, however, the absolute certainty I had that he would win RG is somewhat lacking, rather clouded to say the least. I also feel that he could win the USO but again that darn absolute certainty is clouded. Not sure why though......

Sheremagic - I agree about the coaching issue. I don't see how Rafa could have heard anything from Toni out there. Rafa said Toni told him to stay positive. I'm not sure how Mourier thought THAT was coaching.

Heh heh Cheryl ... yes but lets not forget that Petzchner LOST.
ps I disagree with your 4th point at 6/28/10 2:18 AM. I thought Rafa was playing well. I thought Phillip was also playing very well.

smr - he was playing well enough against Petz (obviously, since he won), but he was better against Haase. I think he won't have much trouble against PHM.

Petz was serving v well at important spots ... Rafa's BP conversion was quite low.
I agree today shouldn't be too much trouble.
Looks like Fed is taking Melzer to the woodshed.

Petz was on FIRE with the serve. He's a good grass courter, without a doubt. Too bad for him that the grass season is roughly 4 weeks long (5 if you count Newport).

Melzer is getting KILLED. Rog never has trouble with that kind of game.

Thanks deuce. But I'm home now and ready to enjoy the games.

*tells self not to read posts from Fedtards for now*

Vamos!!!

I stand by all the points I made after I watched the match again at least three times. There is no question in my mind about it. Rafa was clearly in some discomfort. He isn't going to telegraph it and hold up a sign saying - my knee is killing me and I am in great pain! Rafa felt something and took an MTO to have it addressed. I am pleased that Rafa is no longer willing to play on one leg, as he did at the 2009 Rotterdam final. Rafa can not afford to play through pain. If some wish to persist in arguing that it would have been better etiquette and not so-called gamesmanship for Rafa to wait until after Petz served, I say too bad! Rafa was holding his own serve with ease and had every reason to want to continue playing, especially since he had several break points against Petz in his first service game and about five deuces. Petz was struggling to hold serve and Rafa would have wanted to let him serve and have more opportunities.

I agree that there are times when both Fed and Rafa have used gamesmanship. I have no problem calling Rafa out for it when/if it happens. In this case there was no reason to doubt Rafa's reason for getting treatment in as timely a manner possible. It would be different if Rafa did not have a well documented history of knee problems. It would be different if Rafa took the MTO when Petz was serving for the match or after having broken Rafa.

There are players who abuse the MTO all the time! We all know who they are. I will take Rafa at his word. He said clearly and emphatically in his press conference that he has never taken an MTO unless he is in real pain. He said that this is how he has conducted himself throughout his career.

Rafa is the one player who deserves the benefit of the doubt here. He has proven his toughness. If he played through the pain and then lost the match, that would not have been okay with me. If he played through it and then could not continue in the tournament, that would not have been okay with me.

I want Rafa around for as long as possible. Whatever it takes to do it, is fine with me. If others wish to persist in questioning Rafa taking the MTO in the match at that time, so be it. I am done with this discussion for good.

'There are two things in question:

1. The state of Rafa's knees :-
I think Rafa is going on the lines of the "boy who cried wolf". Slowing down the game at crucial points has always been a part of Rafa' strategy. He frequently flouts the 25 second rule between points, especially when the points are crucial. That is simply unacceptable behavior as a world number one.

Secondly :-
The issue of Nadal's knees is becoming tiresome. If he is playing, then he is fit. Frequent references to his knee troubles for matches that are lost is becoming very repetitive. It is all a part of the Rafa image that Toni and team are trying to create. The image is that Rafa when fully fit is unbeatable on any surface at any time. Frankly, I think it is ridiculous. This way, any victory over him looks asterisked and it is being extremely unfair to his opponents. I don't understand what was the need to bring up Miami now and what is really the need to mention that he is pulling out of Davis cup halfway through wimbledon. It is ridiculous and it already is an excuse in disguise, should he not win Wimbledon. Rafa & team go to amazing depths to ensure that he is the underdog by mentioning his knees at strategic points during events. It is like a no lose situation for him. IF he wins, he is this amazing athlete who fought death to win. On the other hand if he loses, it is because he was injured.'



Also, Nativeyorker, just because he took MTO's without cheating is not proof that he never cheated. You yourself saw what he and his team did this wimbledon? Did you see his on court behavior towards the umpire and how he threatened him? Did you see how he talked glibly about that in the presser as if the umpire and all of ATP be better afraid of him? God, he is a goon. Period.

seethelies,

You have been given a new name, one befitting your despicable rantings here. I honestly feel sorry for you and the hate you have for Rafa. Do you have any clue what it means to deal with tendinitis? This is a serious, potentially career threatening injury! It doesn't have to be exaggerated! It just IS! In your alternate universe, you see this as a nuisance. I hope you don't ever have to know what it means to deal with this kind of pain.

You talk too much! You are creating absurd scenarios in your own mind. Actually, Rafa tries to hide much of his pain from everyone. He never, ever makes excuses. The reason he addressed the knee issue is because everyone was saying he was FAKING it! People like you!

Rafa IS an amazing athlete! He has overcome so much, but people like you who are blinded by obsessive hate will never see it! That's your loss!

Also, why aren't you foaming at the mouth about what Mathieu did today in his match with Rafa? Was he hurt or did he try to stop Rafa's momentum? How come you aren't blathering on about that?

What about Djoker taking that MTO in his match with Hewitt? No problem for you? This guy does it all the time. What about him? Or is it only Rafa who has to live up to your artificial standards?

Get a life, please!

With or without the MTO, Rafa would still win. One need only look at that match between Rafa and Haase to find out. The scenario is exactly the same, with Rafa being two sets to one down. Rafa need not take a MTO then to disrupt his opponent's rhythm and I don't see why he needs it this time against Petz.

I've watched the match again and at the beginning of the fourth set, Petz was struggling to hold his own serves, having faced at least two break points in his first service game. If you were Rafa, you would obviously know that if play carried on, the momentum would have shifted to your favor. Why would you want to stop play to get a MTO and allowed your opponent to regroup during the three minutes break in addition to the normal 90 secs break? Ain't you stupid to allow your opponent this advantage to sit there and regroup?

Critics here complained about gamesmanship, but what if it backfired, just like Fed after that famous toilet break went on to lose his serve? Had Petz hold serve and Rafa lost his serve after the MTO, would critics here said that Rafa had an advantage then? When Petz let the MTO affect him, that showed what kind of player he is, a bit unprofessional I must say. What if during play somebody among the spectators fainted and play was stopped temporarily? Would Petz's concentration be affected then? To me, what Petz said during his presser after his defeat showed me that yes he was disappointed that he lost, but he did act a bit of a sore loser by blaming it on the MTO effect on him, rather than his drop in his own level of play during the fourth and the fifth sets. He was obviously struggling with fatigue which affected his own serves, he had to serve more second serves which allowed Rafa to attack them.

The drop in level of play is common among lower rank players, as they often punch above their weight just to keep up with the top players but when they have to go the distance, they can't keep up and they fall apart. We see that in Petz, in Haase and in Falla. Nothing new here, that explains their respective ranking. The difference between these players and someone like Sod is that Sod believes he can and has the ability to beat the best players in the world, and so we see him able to go the distance to beat Rafa and also Fed at the two RGs, and hence Sod justifies his own ranking. These other players are what they are, as reflected by their rankings.

One of the Beeb commentators said in best of 5 it's usually the higher ranked player who wins. Not always, obviously hence these exciting knife edge matches.

duh, RAFA DIDNT MENTION THE DAVID CUP PULL OUT UNTIL HE WAS ASKED BY ONE OF THE JOURNALISTS ABOUT IT !!

For Rafa's own sake, I hope after this Wimbledon, he get his knees to undergo the treatment he had mentioned earlier on (that he had done on his left knee) and hopefully after that his knees would be fine again. In addition, I hope he cuts down on his schedule to allow his body enough rest between tournaments and rest his precious legs/knees.

I'm sick of hearing all these accusations and sick that Rafa has to answer all sorts of questions about his knees, practically at every tournament that he plays. Rafa is not allowed to mention anything about his knees, and any mention of them would mean that he is giving excuses when he lost, or simply getting ready an excuse should he lost. Any MTO would be viewed with suspicion and bring about a 'cheating' accusation against him.

These Rafa haters do have to bear in mind that all these accusations would backfire and it will soon be their turn to have to defend fanatically for their faves should there be any misstep by their faves. Good luck to you all haters!

'seethelies' - I happen to see a former no.1 player being rude to the umpire during an argument and he used the 'sh_t' word and the 'fu_king' word during that exchange, and the said former no.1 was fined for his ill behavior towards the umpire. So Rafa is not the first and wouldn't be the last to have an argument with the umpire. Please be a little bit less biased in your opinion and don't just single out Rafa.

Rafa's presser is OK to me, he didn't threaten anyone, he mentioned that he'll bring the matter to the attention of the tournament referee which is fair, I think.

Lucky: I had completely forgotten Roger's fall from grace and his habit of flinging water bottles over his head when the going gets tough. And Rafa might possibly be the only player never to have abused his racquet.

He was justifiably angered and in the circumstances I thought he was pretty restrained. Can you imagine, the air would have been purple if it had been Roddick, or even Murray.

The difficulty is that most sports injuries cannot be seen unless blood is drawn (as happened when Rafa's blistered, bleeding feet were revealed on one occasion).

And the physios and doctors have only a minute or two to make a diagnosis. Poor Davydenko continued a match with a broken wrist which was not discovered by the tour doctor and only came to light after he sought a 2nd opinion and went for a scan.

How can we as observers make any judgement on whether an injury is real, imagined, or trumped up for convenience.

Better the players risk being accused of crying wolf, or delaying tactics than continue if there is real risk of causing long term or permanent damage.

Those who think that Rafa was cheating by taking an MTO are judging him by their own standards, as far as I can remember, Petzch also took an MTO; I was on holiday and couldn't watch the whole thing but I do remember seeing Philip on the mat. People also have short memories that in the 2007 final at Wimbledon when Rafa and Roger were 2 sets all and Rafa was leading 4.1 in the final set, Rafa called for the trainer for the same muscle strain to his leg, and went on to lose the match. So he had an MTO when he was in the lead, and no one complained then.

He had a tough match against Hasse, and he didn't have an MTO, so why are people so quick to call him a cheat. Are we to take it that everytime he has an MTO he is cheating?

VAMSO RAFA!!!!!!

About mtos: I personally find them incredibly annoying and should be done away with. I have heard players say they just want to have something checked before it gets worse and sometimes, there isnt anything wrong at all. Thus, any player could just call for a MTO at any time they want if they ?think? something is wrong. There is no way to tell if the MTO is legitimate or not. There is so much room there for gamesmanship. I don?t blame the players for using it to their full advantage, fishy or otherwise, because the ATP allows it. It is virtually to enforce the MTO rules because of this. To avoid this, MTO should no longer be allowed.(unless the injury is blatantly obvious) If you get injured, tough luck. All you deserve is a stretcher to carry you off the court and have proper medical attention.

In team sport they can afford to take a player out on a stretcher if they need medical attention, not in individual sport like tennis. The spectators pay to see a match they don't want a player to retire if medical attention is all they need.

It's alright to sit on the sidelines and make these pronouncements as tj has done, but in practice it just won't wash with people who have paid their money to watch tennis.

No other sport expect players to go on for up to 5 hrs without a break, let's take football which is a team sport, there are 11 players in a team so they are not all playing at full blast all the time, and they only play for 45 mins each half with a break of about 15mins or more in between.

I have to agree with Nadline. Why should a player play until they are stretchered off the court? Why can't a player get blisters re-taped, tablets for a stomache pain, etc. I don't particularly like massages for cramps but it all comes with the package so if we accept one, we have to accept all. Single matches means only the player is on court, no where to hide or turn to. What's a few mins of medical attention when they're playing in (sometimes) schorching heat for hours or in some cases days?? I think that's too much of a criticism. What they should do is maybe tighten the rules, not prepare a stretcher courtside. Why not a coffin and a priest instead???

Gamesmanship is not cheating. To me; taking a medical timeout to gather your focus or disrupt your opponents rhythm is perfectly fine. Its an individual sport that has everything to do with momentum swings - those who don't understand that have clearly never played tennis competitively.

I agree with you samprallica, about this gamesmanship issue. I believe practically every player in the atp tours do practice that, Fed and Rafa included. They all do it within the rules, and players are supposed to be aware of it and learn how to deal with it. I believe that is part and parcel of the sports itself, not only learn how to play the game physically but also psychologically, players do play mind games. Didn't Fed always being accused of playing mind games when he started talking about Murray and his chances of winning slams, etc.? If a player is so easily affected by it, then he shouldn't be in the sports itself; that explains why I see no issue about Fed taking that toilet break, even though I know of his intention; that's why I don't even question Rafa or Petz or Matthieu taking the MTOs, whether they are tactical ones or not. Their opponents should be able to deal with it.

This issue is quite simple!
There is a panel in every sport who decides if a player VIOLATES a rule... then consequently slap him/her with appropriate punishment!

There was NO announcement of any rules BROKEN!..... NO ONE IS GUILTY so far!
So, even if you shout to the top of your lungs that somebody is a cheater while the "book" says otherwise,,, you're just wasting your breath!!!..... Better save it to last another wonderful day!

Thank you McQ.

If only it were that simple that all you have to do when you are behind in a match is to take an MTO, then everyone would be doing it, simple as that.

sampralica and luckystar - that is precisely my point. Commentators and tennis fans alike were throwing around the word cheater after that match. It's flat-out incorrect. They can froth at the mouth and point fingers and scream "unfair" all they want. And gamesmanship it might be, but cheating? I don't think so.

Tennis is full of anomalies, and as far as coaching goes, what's all the fuss about? Players are free to consult their coach during a rain break, and the other day during Djokovic's match when the light was fading and they had to close the roof, they downed tools for 45 mins during which time the players were free to go and talk to their coach. If they are really serious about it, they should be under security guard during these breaks, and if it's overnight, they should be booked into secure accommodation so that they won't be able to contact anyone.

The foot fault is another ridiculous rule, which no one can dispute, because the player is usually looking up at that point so he can't see whether his foot touched the line or not, and the umpire is too far away to over-rule it, and how the line judge can tell from that distance is beyond me.

The fact that Federer virtually admitted to taking a toilet break to shift things to his advantage is testament to the fact that all the players know that gamesmanship is part of their strategy, because as far as I can remember, Federer was laughing whilst admitting to it. Players have been known to challenge a call just to waste time, sometimes to get their breath back, and also to distract the opponent who is on a roll.

Let's just enjoy the game instead of giving it a bad press, because don't even get me started on football gamesmanship.

As far as COACHING is concerned... BETTER have the coach seated in a ONE WAY mirrored box to end this controversy!

nadline - Ronaldo could write his own book on football gamesmanship. It works against him though, because refs never give him the benefit of the doubt any more.

Yet a third "thank you", McQ.

You'd think it was quantum physics the way some people seem to be struggling with such a simple concept.

tj,
about MTOs,
maybe, if you know its history, you wouldn't say that!!
This was what happened in 1995. at the USO in 1995,shuzo matsuoka suffered from cramps during his first round match against petr korda. the rules at the time were as you suggested it should be. Taking an MTO meant that matsuoka would have forfeited the match, so he was left to suffer until he was defaulted for delaying the match.
that incident led to a change in the rules of professional tennis to allow players to receive medical treatment during matches.

now, tj, are you suggesting that such situations should arise again?? had he received the treatment, he could have easily played on. but the rules then did not allow him to. and that's y now we have MTOs..

Yes cheryl, I agree that Ronaldo has been found out, but within the rules there are loads of other gamesmanship going on in football like the winning team wasting as much time as possible towards the end of the game to prevent the other team having enough time to score a goal, etc etc. etc.

Carrie, Ghana did this quite obviously against the US in their round of 16 match. It was quite pitiful.

The thing is in other sports people accept that gamesmanship goes on so they don't go on and on about it as they do in the tennis, at the slightest whif of if, and let's face it, it doesn't happen in every game in tennis, whilst it happens in every game in Rugby and football, even cricket.

I don't know anything about cricket or rugby - actually, I don't even understand the rules of cricket or rugby. In fact, I watched Invictus and the best I could come up with was "why are they picking that man up?" LOL. We yanks are so unsophisticated. :D

Nadline,
with due respect, it does not happen in cricket. Cricket is called gentlemen's game for a reason. The worst that happens in cricket is sledging, and even that is heavily fined. Anything above that , and don't expect anything less than a ban. Yes, there is a bit of gamesmanship, but it will ensure you a visit to match referee....

^^^interesting point clayking and one that applies to tennis. People expect tennis players to be gentlemen I think. The expectations are much higher in a sport like tennis than they are in..say...football.

How about ball tampering in cricket which the England captain was accused of a few years ago:

Ball tampering - scratching it on one side, picking the seam, applying various substances to it - is helpful to the bowler because it allows him to swing the ball more and thus to deceive the batsman. But it is also against the laws of cricket. And as we all know, an Englishman never cheats. Foreigners may flout the rules, they may take drugs, their referees and umpires may be biased. An Englishman, however, merely has a dirty pocket.

nadline..
you must remember the fine that was imposed upon atherton..
and anyway ball tampering is not gamesmanship..
it is illegal..
gamesmanship is always legal, though unethical..
The incidents of gamesmanship are much much rarer in cricket than tennis..

The incidents of gamesmanship are much much rarer in cricket than tennis..

clayking , 6/30/10 5:40 PM



Yes, but it's there.

if your point was cricket has incidents of gamesmanship, then i accept it..
it does have a lil bit gamesmanship, specially a lil time wasting tactics, often on 5th day of a cliffhanger test match!! :P

I was only trying to say that tennis players shouldn't be picked for something that goes on in other sports.

Well, here is an excellent example of gamesmanship..
by Sodacan..

if Rafa's MTO against Petsch is an exercise of gamesmanship, what would you call Soderling's MTO against Rafa in the quarters?

i'm addressing this question to cheryl of course.

That was not gamesmanship by Soderling: it was a spiteful retaliation.
We had already guessed there could be a spate of mto's from Rafa opponents and Rafa knew this was what Soderling was doing. That was why he was visibly annoyed.

But if Soderling thought he could teach Rafa a lesson, he underestimated what happens when you enrage a bull - particularly a Spanish bull.

Bad decision by Soderling - he was served a baguette in the next set.

Cheryl, I think Sod needs his very own blog about cheating.

nadline, with all due credit to Soderling....I can't think of any circumstance short of him streaking the audience at Centre Court (and maybe not even then) which would entice me to dedicate an entire blog to him.

Of course it was gamesmanship - but I think it just goes to prove my point. There is NOTHING anyone can do about it. We can get irritated, roll our eyes and cluck our tongues disapprovingly. But it will make no difference, because despite what you just said, it is NOT cheating. It wasn't cheating when Roger did it, it wasn't cheating when Rafa did it and isn't cheating just because it was Sod and nobody likes him.

The shoe is a little more uncomfortable when it's on the other foot, isn't it?

That incident wasn't Sods fault, it's the umpire's! Even the commentators were shouting foul about it. He shouldn't have waited that long for the trainer to come making Rafa wait that LONG. He should've OVER RULED that TO since it was just requested immediately before Rafa's turn to serve without any notice prior to the game before.
The umpire's bad line call triggering Rafa's anger was also foul because he should've repeated the point which ,luckily, Nadal won.... Then he repeat another one against Soderling, at the last game of the match, which, luckily, was won by Robin.
AVE PASCAL MARIA!!! What was he thinking?
Aren't there any rules PENALIZING the umpires for such bad judgements?
Of course, they're but human... but they're not suppose to be WRONG , at CRUCIAL MOMENTS, most of the match!

ed251137 , 7/1/10 11:12 AM,

I agree with your take on Sod's "MTO" completely! I believe that there is a difference here. Sod asked for it after the game was over and right before Rafa was serving for the set. The stupid chair umpire should have rightly told him to wait until after Rafa served. He should never have allowed play to stop for such a long time as they waited for the trainer to come from center court. This was a ten minute MTO! Rafa was annoyed and obviously felt it was done for pure spite after the Petz match.

It's one thing if the trainer comes out immediately and it's only a few minutes, but this was totally absurd.

This shoe is quite comfortable on my foot! Petz wasn't serving for set and didn't have to wait ten minutes. Even though Sod is and always will be a classless jerk, the chair umpire is the one who erred in allowing the immediate stopping of play. He should have told Sod that he would have to wait for the MTO until after Rafa served.

sorry to return, just wanted to let you know this snippet of info - all players have decided to take an MTO whenever playing rafa.. as cherryl said there is nothing anybody can do about poor gamesmanship.. so the [players have unaniomously decided to do the only thing they can do against rafa.. to pay him back in the same coin and make him realize how irritating it is... I'm off again, bye bye, have fun with your trashing of other players for what your player started.. you got to able to take it if you wanted to dish it out.

Soderling doesn't strike me as being particularly bright, but surely even the most dim-witted must have observed by now that making Rafa angry isn't the best strategy.

Seethelies/maxi,
Have fun dealing with the abundant hatred inside yourself. When you learn to hold a tennis racket (bear in mind it's not the same as a squash or badminton racket which I'm sure you think it is), than shoot off your mouth and keep attacking those players who has your fav's number and who make you very, very angry because of that!

Good old maxi! As mean as usual plus some lies. Players have unanimously decided and immediately reported it to maxi. Congrats with having so much insider knowledge!

As far as the initial post is concerned, the author has absolutely no grounds to accuse Nadal of cheating. When somebody abuses a person having no positive proof to backup the accusation, I call it dirty journalism.

<<What I do like is John Isner and Nicolas Mahut. Did you see any trainers or bathroom breaks from those two guys?>>

A hero Isner has the trainer on the court in the next round, playing against Thiemo de Bakker. The first set lasted only 16 minutes, Isner lost it 0-6. The trainer massaged Isner during the change of ends. What an unlikeable guy, isn't he?

LOL, and LOL again. I read some of this thread and what I find to be most revealing is that there's one poster who's using at least three (3) screen names. The writing style is so similar in all of the posts written by these posters. How can this be allowed? Aren't IP addresses checked? I find it strange that people can outwit the tech people. I'm a proverbial computer *dummy* so these computer tricks are an eye-opening marvel for me, and I always marvel at those who are able to outwit the techies. LOL.

I also wonder why people find it necessary to hide their identity behind several screen names, when they want to speak their minds. As the Nike logo says: "Just do it" no one can hurt you, and people will eventually know who you are anyway, which is even more shameful.

it's been a while since i have written on this forum, and yet i come back to read a pack of lies about me which are totally uncalled for. who the hell is seethetruth?

Jean, I would in NO WAY refer to rafa in ANY of my posts in the negative way that some posters here do. If you read any of my posts prior to the FO, you will note my conversations with VF wishing/congratulating rafa, so you are wrong there in your ill guided assumptions. I suppose I have to laugh really, as otherwise it would just get me down.

I have had a major death in my family, hence the reason why I have not been on this forum for about 6 weeks now. I dont expect you to believe me, nor do I really care, and I dont feel good about mentioning this here. Same goes for you von. dont assume that I am any number of people here. I am not. and I dont expect any return of understanding from you Jean, or you Von. You are both nasty people to me.
I am ONE person on this forum. Maxi. Yet you continue to conjure up stories to suit your own needs. If you dont believe me, that's your problem, try to stop being so idiotic in thinking that i could create however number of different people here? Why would I want to do that? Honestly. It's pathetic. I dont expect you to understand pain or loss or grief and how it can make someone feel. Believe it or not, TT is not on my list of priorities right now. I came back to see what was going on, and see the same old rubbish from you.
I often think the people who point the finger of blame, are the people who create these array of personas, it hides their true identities. I want none of it.

Vamos, as you are the only decent person here, I hope to return around the time of cinny masters, when roger plays, so perhaps see you then.

really sorry for the death of someone in your family, hope you are doing better now.

vamos, you are so sweet. i was upstairs getting my coat, ready to go out and something, instinct, told me that you were here? how weird is that. no need for you to reply to what i wrote, that's not why i wrote it. but von (by implication) and jean have a point and I have been thinking about this for the last couple of hours because i am fed up vamos with being accused of being people on here when i am not.

Cheryl, if you read this post, as jean has referred to me as being "seethetruth/maxi". (considering I havent posted for 6 weeks or so, could be longer) please will you check my IP address (I give you consent to do this and I assume provided this is given, you can do so, as i know it goes against data protection, but I havent got a problem with you doing this), against theirs and return to confirm that I am NOT this person. It's getting just ridiculous now. I dont know what else has been said about me, and havent got the patience to read the hundreds of posts here, but i do think people need to get a life and stop being dumb, if all they can do is write stuff which is untrue.

vamos, there is a lot of bad press right now about roger federer, and i have chosen to read some of it, and not others, it is draining. i hope that he is able to come back to the tour refreshed and ready to fight again. that is when i will be happier! we shall just have to wait and see.

anyway, the cricket! how well did pakistan do against Australia! are you still celebrating? i cant remember the name of the captain, but he made his 800th match - I guess that will be a bit like mahut and isner - will never be broken! I think the nearest was 732 by shane warne! awesome.

maxi-muralitharan got his 800th WICKET in test cricket-not match. it was nice to see him retire on a high. after all,he is from my country of origin.

@maxi, hell with the bad press..its just the nature of the sport and its only a matter of time before true champs like fed/rafa silence the stupid critics.

yea paki's win over Australia meant a lot to us ! thanks for that.... beating the best team in the world in test match cricket was special and we fend off all demons.


and as tj pointed out, muralitharan(srilankan) grabbed his 800th wiket in his test match career . INCREDIBLE, this record is likely to stand for a lonnng time imo.
shane warne finished at 708, murali has a better average and more wickets but shane warne remains my favorite! loved his crafty spin bowling, he has hsi own class....i was really sad when he retired, no one can take his place .both are true legends.

tj thanks.

and tj/vamos, I'm glad you were able to say/write the name of the captain! awesome achievement for mura.

So, vamos, I dont know a lot about Paul Annacone, (though am aware he was previously sampras's coach), but on Fed's homepage, he has put a statement out to his fans saying he is "trial/testing" him as part of his coaching team. What do you think?

yeah i read that too. its the third time fed is hiring a coach for 'testing' , paul coached sampras and henman previously so lets see if he can make things better for the mighty swiss...let us see how things pan put for him .may be its the right decisioN ! time will tell..