Firstly, get your facts right, he did not use the F-bomb but said s**t - big difference and oh, lets now crucify him for saying that for being human. Seriously, one can already see from your blog (cause i refuse to believe that this is actually considered a serious article) that you are biased. Bottomline - like it or not, he won the award. Take up your grievance with the ATP and the over 500 players that voted for him because everyone else is wrong and you are right :)

He did SO drop the F-bomb...and he said s**t. Maybe he got extra points for variety.

a bomb exploded!!!!!! get a life nugz. at least somebody got the you know what's to call fed out on being a princess. don't know about you but i get sick of every goddammed writer kissing his a**se. and he DID drop the fbomb at garner twice!! go to youtube to see for yourself.

Not only did he drop some profanity he smashed a racquet in Miami!!

Apparently the dozens of tennis players who played thru' the year without swearing or smashing a racquet did not know this since they still voted for Fed...

It is definitley a popularity contest and in Federer's case it's a sort of urban legend that the guy is the nicest sweetest thing since sliced bread !!

And before anyone jumps all over me, I am not saying he isnt !!

cheryl, this is a very sad response - from you - to a wonderful achievement by Roger Federer.and it is a wonderful achievement from a great sportsman,whom the atp player think is the sportsman most deserving, even if you do not agree - it doesnt matter -

I think it is important that we dont lose sight of this. you wrote a blog not so very long ago about this and said in your view it was a "minor incident" as did ricky - and now it is you who is blowing it out of proportion.Please dont.Over a 10 plus year career, roger federer has been amazing.one "minor" incident shouldnt spoil this,even if you want it to.

"And ESPN News is trying to blow it out of proportion now. It was a minor incident. ESPECIALLY compared to Serena.
RickyDimon , 9/15/09 3:06 AM

it was NOT a big deal at all. Roddick does worse on a regular basis with nobody batting an eye. It was only because it was Federer saying it that everyone is in a tizzy.
cherylmurray , 9/15/09 3:21 AM

He said Sh*t, no F-bomb

When was sportsmanship defined as the person who shows the least emotion?? The fact that Federer is so liked in the locker room is reason enough for the sportsmanship award, if he wasn't sportsman like people wouldn't vote for him, would they??
I sure hope tennis writing isn't your full time job.

jayson - he said the f-bomb. It's just that US coverage went to commercial and didn't show it. I was watching on a stream. He said it - it's why he was fined.

How about the fact that the guy independently takes the time to organize a charity event, that raises $600,000 for Haiti, on the eve of the years first grand slam event. Time taken out of his own tennis preparation!

And Andre Agassi dumped millions of his own money and years of time into his school. Does that make him a good sportsman? Did that make any difference when he spit on an official?

Some of you are so quick to defend Roger that you didn't read what I wrote. I am not making a commentary on his likability. in fact it is obvious that he is VERY well-liked. I didn't say he wasn't a good person either.

BUT I still stand by what I said. Why call it Sportsman of the Year if it's really Popularity Contest of the YEar.

Or maybe the fact that he takes the time to congratulate a John Isner on his first title or send Sam Querry a note when he's injured. I suspect there are countless examples that we never hear about and that matter to the guys in the locker room. Roger takes his role as the leader of the sport very seriously and his fellow players appreciate him for that. Somehow I can't see a couple of curse words and a smashed racquet trumping the way Roger interacts with his peers. What a small minded response to the achievement of a great champion and ambassador of his sport.

Cheryl...
not everyone viewed the USO incident as negatively as you did.(which was evident in the blog you wrote soon after it)
yes,I think dropping a swear word could be viewed as bad sportsmanship,but I'm not sure there is a PERFECT sportsman out there on the tour.sportsmanship is more about fair play rather than temper control,of course temper control is importnat as well but I'm sure players are more concernced about fair play. you might think this should be renamed as a popularity award,but remember that the players are each others' rivals in the 1st place and there are not going to vote for an unafir player who is just "friendly" with them in the locker room.
I'm sure players have good reasons to vote for Roger year after year.and you think Stefan is a better option,maybe he is but players can't vote for him,can they?
if you scrutuinized every player on the tour the way Roger is scrutinized,I'm sure it was possible to find each of them ,even the best sportsmen,a few faults through out the year.
maybe players couldn't care less about Roger losing his temper with an incompetent umpire(oh,I don't want to go back to that discussion again)and given his reputation in the previous years and also his off court activities in promoting the sport they decided to vote for him.
and thanks for calling us Fed fans "smug". yes,the best response is that it's voted by the players,and players qoutes about Roger backs up their choice.

Federer used the f-word when speaking to Jake Garner. It was clearly audible on the video clip.

I understand that some may be heated over this discussion, but if you read the article again....with one exception at the top, which Cheryl acknowledged, this piece does not denigrate Federer at all.

It's merely a questioning of the institution of the award and its recipient's selection criteria.

They vote for Roger because he is the GRANDAD of the tennis circuit. Let's face it, he is the oldest guy by far in the top 5, so they let grandpa have the vote, because it will make him happy.

Vamos Rafa!

carrie...Roger was not a "grandpa" back in 2004,he was one of the young guns,yet he still won the award.

btw Cheryl,Roger did not swear AT the umpire.

I think they should make it the JEFF TARANGO award for 'Sportsmanship.'

Maybe they should let sports writers vote instead of the players.

deborah, yes.
kelli, you cannot on the one hand say it is "not a big deal"

'it was NOT a big deal at all. Roddick does worse on a regular basis with nobody batting an eye. It was only because it was Federer saying it that everyone is in a tizzy.
cherylmurray , 9/15/09 3:21 AM



and then because it suits change your mind to create a discussion that is going to be the opposite "a big deal" when fed fans are described as "smug" by a chief writer.

fedfans have no say in the award, it's the players, and imho,that is what is missing here. the players voted for federer.the players. and if you are saying that because federer swore makes him ineligible for the award, then that means that the other 999 players are also ineligible. How easy to forget that delpo took precisely 10 seconds to challenge in the first place, reason for the complaint. you are supposed to challenge straight away,and when fuss died down, many presenters agreeing with federer's corner, what a pity minds can be clouded.

For those of you who don't get the Jeff Tarango sportsmanship award, watch this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmwQTydi-eQ

yeah.roger is the grand dad, that makes davydenko, grandad, haas supergrandad,lubijic supergrandad, ferrer, supergrandad (of course all being older than granddad), and strange that granddad still beating grandkids on regular basis.

The oldest guy in top 5 still using racquet as walking stick and beating everyone else. most athletic grandad on tennis court.

Such a bad article.... I can't get over it

niloofar - ahahahaha. He didn't swear AT Jake. Just...what? Near him? TO him? :D

not worth any more commenting on. bad taste.

Cheryl,well maybe my english is not good enough,but I think directing the F-word at the person is different,I think.
anyway my 1st post is my main point,not the 2nd one.

HAHAHAAHAHA. Carrie - Jeff Tarango is HILARIOUS!

Cheryl, I also thought your article was pretty pathetic. Your jab about Fed being a princess was downright infantile (is that how the other people in your kindergarten write?). Who is better to judge who is the best sportsman other than the players themselves? The answer is no one. And the players chose Fed as the best sportsman in the game. They clearly didn't think that one outburst overshadowed all of the other things Fed does in the spirit of good sportsmanship. I suggest you find something else to rant about because this is truly unrantworthy. It makes you seem like a hater. And speaking of Fed haters, I truly feel for them right now - as he's so far ahead of rest of the pack they need binoculars to see him.

Oh, and Carrie, Fed has knees of a 20 year old, unlike Rafa who really does have the knees of a GRANDAD. I'll put money on Fed being able to outlast Rafa any day.

Anyway, Rafa has won the Shakira award for snuging, so there!

I understand your point, maxi, but Cheryl did not do that in this piece. She wasn't throwing Federer under a bus, but merely opening a dialogue about the state of the award.

Knowing my chief writer for as long as I have, I promise you that the use of the word "smugly" wasn't intended to be a dig at Federer fans. It was tongue in cheek, as a preemptive strike sorts. You know how this type of thing tends to incite people.

Hollow material written for the sole purpose of winding people up? Not Cheryl's style. This is just a discourse about the process how we go from the ATP committee placing Federer's name on the ballet, to the players voting, etc...

Oh dear Cheryl you do know that Roger has been nominated for the Laureus Award
next month, right?

kelli, whatever you say, you know best. it makes me sad that people write in this way. and did you mean "ballot" as opposed to "ballet?" - this is something that should be celebrated. so why do i feel sad?

leenyc, :)

Have they got a Cry Baby of The Year award, Roger would certainly win that.

and well he should be, nellie.

I am constantly amazed that in everyone's rush to defend Mr. Federer, they lose sight of the fact that I haven't insulted him. Well, I made a little joke about his man-purses, but that was...you know...in good fun. I just think it's a funny thing and I like to bring it up from time to time because it's...well...funny.

I made NO commentary on Federer's likability except to claim that he obviously has it in spades. I made no comment on his status as a philanthropy, his being a good (or bad) person based on one swearing incident.

The only point that I was making (which I made very VERY obvious) is that the nature of that award seems to have gotten lost along the way.

I think Rafa is the true winner of this award, year after year after year!

And the winner is: Rafael Nadal.

as I said in my earlier post,the players are each other's rivals in the 1st place and 'sometimes' friends in the 2nd place.they sure vote for someone who they think is the fairest to them.
btw,why do you think the winner should be FLAWLESS? since no one is perfect on the tour,maybe that's why players still pick Roger after an incident of losing his temper.
and as I said temper control comes 2nd to fair play.
so what the winner has happened to lose his temper at times, one incident doesn't diminish all the other things he does well and also his off court activities.
so the winner's not being PERFECT doesn't mean the award has lost it's meaning.
or you think all ATP are stupid and can't distinguish between sportsmanship and freindship?

niloofar, I want to take issue with you that no one is perfect, surely you must have noticed that Rafa personifies perfection, no?

niloofar - It's fine that your idea of being the best sportsman of the year is different than mine.

And yes, I think the players in the ATP voted for the guy they liked best, not the guy who exhibited the best sportsmanship. Which goes to prove how MUCH they like Federer.

Well, if Roger was not the best player for the award, who was and what was the nature of the award that they have veered from? The fact that the award was named for Edberg may not indicate that being a carbon copy of him was the sole criteria.

how did my idea differ?
I just said that for me,and I guess for the player,fair play is the most important thing,and that no one is flawless on the tour as far as I know.

cheryl, your man-purse, princess joke wasn't funny. you and others that try (in vain) to diminish fed with childish insults are all in contention for the "kindergartner of the year" award.

re the award, could it also be cheryl that the award is focused on exactly what it needs to be focused on - and that you in fact are the one whose opinion of what it should be is off target? why do you presume to know more than the people that sponsor this award and the people that vote on it? that seems arrogant to me.

well...I guess we differ because to me, getting fined for unsportsmanlike behavior is a big leap from "not perfect".

You 'll notice that I didn't bring up the Miami racket-smashing incident. Because to me, that's being "not perfect".

cheryl, your man-purse, princess joke wasn't funny.

leenyc , 2/17/10 10:18 PM


leenyc,
speak for yourself. It's not only funny, Ithink it's hilarious!

ok its gona come from a rafa fan's mouth so its gona sound bitter but i am gona utter. RAfa was theh better candidate definitely this time around !!! dont know abt the previous years..his conduct was exceptional, the way he handled that OZ open 2009 presensation ceremony was AWESOME and no youngster has ever shown such conduct before, the way he handled the Rg loss and wimb denial was exemplary too, becoz he stayed so calm despite so much suffering . that oz open 2010 is being used as an example of pure sportsmanship shown , writers have it right up there as one of the best tennis moments ever ! rafa was sublime , made me fee prou
d really.

RF is such anice guy and a great champ that he deserves everything he wins, this time he fully deserved the ATP player of the year but the sportsmanship thingy sounds very strange. talking abtb the f-bomb, its so indecent that we cant even spell it out properly becoz its a forum where decent language is to be used, using the f-bomb in front of the whole world to insult an official does not sound nice guy sor does it?

vamosraf, I agree 100%.

carrie, totally expected your response there. so kindergarten. isn't it time for your nap?

leenyc, and how mature was that reply buddy ? we are here to discuss tennis , and i think we are discussing something serious here so ur joke was very ill-timed , sorry if sound rude.

Cheryl...
I got your point. but look ,players are not fined for "cheating" ,right?
but I think swaering is a much better act than cheating or stuff like that,what I mean is that I don't think the "fine" shows the awefulness(is that a word?)of the bad behaviour.

vamosrafa...how about the official insulting Roger in the 1st place and not listening to a correct complain?
btw,I don't think handling tough moments is exactly the criteria for the sportsmanship award. as I said repeatedly I think the behaviour towards the opponents,being bound to the rules and off court activities are the most important as the defenition of the award says.

I find it quite telling that those who are so offended at perceived insults are very quick to dish very OBVIOUS insults back at me. Carry on though. I'm sure Roger appreciates your disdain on his behalf - even if they're imaginary insults. :)

Carrie - you're cracking me up today. LOL!

correction in my 10:24 PM post Oz open 2009 ,not 2010

I second or rather third vamosrafa!! well said. For that matter the way he handled the US open bashing, the year end masters walloping and then also showing up for his country at the DC. Sportsman all the way. Handling losses almost always show the true character of a man. If Federer had been losing in the 4th round at Wimby to a guy like Soderling, I am sure the British crowd would have been scandalised no end with the barrage of broken racquets and F-words coming their way.

Way to go Rafa. You are legend

niloofar - that's exactly what I mean. It's obvious that we just have different ideas about what sportsman is. And that's...ok. At least from my end it is.

Never mind leenyc, Federer wins the Jeff Tarango award hands down, you shouldbe proud of him.

There is nothing worse than diminishing an accolade, and that's precisely what's happened here. Vamosrafa is absolutely right, this should definitely go to Rafa for 2009. Is it any wonder that all the players don't compete when they play Roger, it's 'After you Roger'; 'At your service Roger'; Anything you want Roger'. Pathetic! Rafa, Murray, Djoko and Delpo are the only MEN on the tour.

cheap shots all over the place again. Cheryl then you are surprised why the "smug" fans of Roger are so quick to defend him. because you started another Fed venting thread.

niloofar, when did garner insult and most importantly ABUSE federer? sorry what clip are you talking abt? yes garner did make a mistake but u know what ,the same issue , that enraged federer so much (delp challenging too late ) , fed repeated the same thing twice in the oz open 2010 ! against tsonga and davy so it happens QUITE OFTEN that players are allowed to make late challenges, so does that mean you start throwing F-bombs on officials and insult then? NO. and u nicely overlooke and ignored that Oz open 2009 ceremony dude ! u just mentioned 'handling the tough moments' but ignored the main part . sorry but what off-court indecency did rafa commit? please illuminate me with it. sorry but there is no way to put covers on this incidence, it desrved discussion ,so stay calm.

what I said was true. Federer fans ARE smug when he wins something. I don't mind. Rafa fans are smug during a normal clay season. I don't mind that either.

And yes, every time I write a blog, somebody is going to take issue with it. I'm actually not surprised in the least.

I'm a bit flabbergasted at the snarky tone of this blog. Whether you agree that Fed's behavior in 2009 lived up to Sportsmanship standards or not, the presentation certainly didn't make me believe that the writer was anything but unsportsmanlike herself. I defer to the player's judgement. They are the ones on tour, in the locker room and interact with each other on a daily basis. If they think Fed deserves it, then he does. Unless you would like to write another blog about what idiots they all are...

when u keep winning all the time, its easy to smile and overlook some minor issues , fed was winning so much so its natural he was so plesant, look how his demeanour changed when he was riding a rough patch in early 2009, his attitude was becoming so negative aswell about the game ,usually he is up to the challeges but after his miami loss he was like ' i am dying to get away from this hard court season and now look forward to clay..' , injurues and miseries, but nadal's composure is unshaken , many of fed
s previous s.awards were well-deserved I think but this time its VEry strange, as cheryl said sounds like more the POPULARITY thing :S

vamosrafa:
when did I say he abused Roger?
he seemed to silence Roger and not listen to him. wether Roger challenged late or not is irrelevant,he shouldn't have been allowed either(as for the Davy match the comms clarified that Roger challenged early but the umpire didn't hear).btw,Delpo seemed to be getting help from his box which was the point.
and did I say it was ok that Fed threw the F-bomb? NO IT WAS NOT.and I WAS disappointed in him.all I'm saying is that ,in my view and in players' view it doesn't disqualify someone from being a good sportsman in general.
Rafa didn't commit any off-court indecency ,I was talking about the genaral criteria which is not really about how you stay calm during the tough times or how you are nice to your fellow in a ceremony.it's about "professionalism" "respect" "fairness"(mostly the on court behaviour and being bound to the rules) and "promonting the sport through off court activities".

Cheryl...I'm sorry if I was harsh in my previous post,got riled up by a certain post.
I'd better log off.

What you mentioned is absolutely right Cheryl? If an award was to be given to Roger, it could have been named Achiever of the year or something on those lines. But being called a sportsman entails a lot of responsibilities which Roger unfortunately has yet to master. The sport is televised for god's sake, there are millions viewing across the world who look upto Fed as their idol. You dont want them to imbibe the swearing or the racquet smashing for that matter. Would be interesting to see if Serena Williams the same award for women's!

Serena has been voted Sportswoman of the year by line judges!

Some of these players hardly ever see Roger at a tournament, because they are usually back home by the 2nd day of a tournament, so what do they know?

i think its more like the way cheryl put it , they all like and respect fed very much,for most players it does not matter what award it is, its an award and for the mfed shud win it given his legacy and respect, may b ! :S

Who says that Federer doesn't get the credit that he deserves?

I think many are overlooking the admirable nature of many players on the tour. In a world where many of the top athletes are thugs, narcissistic and over indulged, I think both Roger and Rafa are a breath of fresh air. Their poise and classiness are exactly the role models that all sports need. We can nitpick moments here and there, but the truth is many of the player's behavior is well above the behavior you see in any other sport.

HAHAHAHAHA, Carrie. I deserved that one. :D

I was under the impression that the Sportsmanship Award was...err...decided by a panel of people or something, it is only now I found out that it was actually VOTED by the rest of the players.

I do not necessarily agree with the way Cheryl put things across in this blog post but I gotta say I sort of share her sentiment here, my confusion being the the definition of the word "Sportsmanship" in this award. Maybe they are basing it on sportsmanship towards other players, other things/efforts, the whole big picture. Yeah sure, so Roger threw a hissy fit on court. But when I think about it, it's difficult to find one player that is PERFECTLY WELL-BEHAVED on court ALL the time. Everyone throws fits and misbehaves from time to time, hey, no one's perfect.

But if it's a voting thing, then it IS a popularity contest. This is undeniable. There isn't going to be any fairness because players based it on personality more than anything. Heck I don't think the award for Best And Fairest High Court Judge (as voted for by other judges) will something completely unbiased either!

So at the end of the day, Federer is just bloody loved by the players on tour. That itself is something, I guess.

And apologies if I am not making any sense. May come back when I am more coherent. I haven't slept all night because I was up stitching drunk people in the emergency department.

And disgressing just a little from the topic: Shanghai is the ATP Masters 1000 Tournament of the Year!??!?!?

Are you freaking kidding me??? With all the retiring going on in the tournament and matches being unfinished more than finished?! Now THIS ONE I completely fail to see the light. That's almost as ridiculous as Andy R winning Umpire Lover of the Year.

^^^^jyannis, I thought the same thing. It was like the....injury Masters! Maybe the lower-ranked players liked it because they thought they actually had a chance?

It would have been GREAT if Madrid had won though. Seriously. HAHAHAHAHAHA

cheryl of course he'll win it again this year - for his toilet break stunt.

and it's only february...

It's a shame to read articles like this. Especially some of the comments from the Fed haters. I guess all the tennis players on tour must be missing something when they vote a player like Federer the sportsmanship award, huh.
Anyways, Congratulations Roger, well deserved!

Cheryl, u are confusing sportsmanlike and good manners award. Sportsmanship is what u do on court and how u behave during the game.

Fed only did it a few times but it was against the umpire or a racket not to the other player.

Venting frustrations 2 out of 2000 times is negligible considering how he is mostly sporting unlike other players.

All of these cheapshots just show how much Fed winning another GS and all these awards get under the skin of some people. Some will always be jealous of you when you're the best ever. Try to get over it eventually guys. Your bitterness is quite amusing though. Cheryl you are the ultimate party starter. Oh and Fed is the greatest ever so try to live with it and don't let jealousy consume you. Cheers.

torres - I don't disagree with you for the most part. Generally speaking, the Garner incident was negligible - and the racket-breaking certainly was. Several readers who are angry with me seem to think that I am somehow calling Federer out for what he did. I was not.

Don't get me wrong, I don't applaud what he did. The way he talked to Jake was pretty disrespectful - BUT, I still understand that in the heat of the moment, we aren't always at our best.

That being said, what he did was during the match and yes, I do consider it bad sportsmanship. I don't want, need or expect perfection from ANYONE. But I figure if you're going to get an award touting you as the sport's top sportsman, it shouldn't be in a year in which you receive a fine for being UNsportsman-like.

He won it because he's popular- which I think is GREAT for tennis. The fact that his colleagues jump at the chance to vote for him is awesome. And if that's the case, call it the "ATP Players' favorite" or something.

It's funny, chr. Last week, when I had a little lovefest for Roger and his accomplishments, it was Rafa fans who were accusing me of all sorts of things.

What I think is that people only want to read the truth when it is convenient.

This article and many of the comments are hilarious. I love it that Rafa's fans are foamimg at the mouth that Roger wins the sportmanship award. Yes, my dears, the players vote, so they must know something that we don't about the players. Hey, cherylmurray and all Rafa fans, maybe you can go straighten out those players that voted for Roger and make sure they vote for Rafa.

It's a little disappointing for me to see that the ATP made no effort while choosing the winner of the award. They took the easy way out and elected Roger Federer again for the umpteenth time. This despite the fact that he's had incidents such as Australian open finals ceremony, racket smash in Miami, US Open final outburst and less than friendly handshake with Davydenko at WTF, belligerent remarks towards Murray etc..

To be sure these are very minor things, even though Federer won't be proud of them. And they do not retract in any way from his status of a great champion.
However this year is a marked difference to Federer's exemplary behavior for the past 5+ years.

I was hoping for some nice guy, maybe not even a top-ranked player, like James Blake, Isner, Verdasco or Soderling to win it for once. This would have provided a boost for the other top players to put forth their better behaviors and compete for the award in the future.

The question is not whether Federer deserves this award. It's just that by making little effort to be discerning, the ATP has made this a Roger Federer award and let a potential opportunity go waste.

cheryl, now i know why u are the one writing blogs here not some rabid Rafan like vamosrafa, NNY, carrie which will reply my argument with emotional outbursts and personal attacks.

I agree that Fed probably shouldnt win it if u look at the fine but when I think of it, who else deserves it more?

I dont think Rafa deserves it coz his manner on court is unsportsmanlike and when he loses he always say he's injured and not 100%

Djoker? The guy got into some ppl's skin when he quit and take medical timeout

Muzza? Errr.. dont need to elaborate here. The guy use the F-word 2000 times more than Fed

Delpo? I dunno if he's popular enough.. (Maybe he should have won it)

Davy? The guy got big-headed and said everyone's scared of him when he was on a hotstreak

Roddick? No need to elaborate

Other players do not play enuff TV matches and being quiet like Dr.Ivo doesnt necessarily mean ur sporting if u dont congratulate ur opponents after victory and do not make friendly gestures.

So question is, who else? Best is Delpo.

And why Cheryl keeps ignoring that good question: Why was he once again nominated for a Laureus World Sportsman of the Year? Surely his little incidences in the past year should have had him disqualified. That makes the over 500 players on tour (who interact with him on a level that we know nothing about) and the sports experts all wrong...and once again you are right. If it was just about on-court display, then the ATP fans favorite & sportsmanship award would be rolled into one since we all get to watch him on the same level. But its not. For a good reason. We are not in the locker room. Or at practice! Also i fail to understand why Rafa keeps coming up. He is a great player & all but this isn't even a question of if he is a better sportsman than roger (because all players dont seem to think so).

Other players like Verdasco, james Blake are nice guys but like I said, if sportsmanship = being quiet then Dr.Ivo should win it 6 yrs in a row.

But being sporting translate to how u treat ur opponents. Fed may have made some remarks in interviews which sometimes the media twists like the recent one where he was largely claimed to say Rafa has no motivation and drive (over-exaggeration) when all he said is ,' Rafa doesnt seem to care abt no.1'

So even the players know better than to read what the media or what the journalists said to them.

When Fed loses to Rafa, did he ever not congratulate him? Did Fed not ask how Rafa was doing in AO during practice matches? Did he over-celebrate points to make opponents feel bad? Did he not say Muzza is definitely going to win a GS.

And most ppl know the arrogant jokes he makes are just what they are, jokes...

So players feel that when they play Fed, they get a fair match, they have every opportunity to beat the guy with 100% of their focus and skills.

That's fairplay.

homos, i would love to know how each player voted! wouldn't that be interesting!

hey, do you think the players may have voted in 2002 for this year?

I am a die hard Federer fan, but I have to agree to this article 100%
In fact I was discussing it just few weeks ago with my friend, that Roger will never break the 5 Award that Edberg had, simply because i was sure he won't get it in 2009 (due to Indian Wells and US Open behaviour) and in the future he will have more frustrating days ahead (even though i still believe he is better than the rest Tennis wise), which means he will have more of these tantrums...
And by the way, this comes from a super die hard Stefan Edberg fan (he is still number 1 in front of Roger in my book)

The next thing, Federer will get the Husband of the Year award, and Father of the Year Award. I think he's got nieces and nephews, how about Uncle of the Year, Brother of the Year and Son of the Year. Cry Baby of the Year, certainly!

Rafa = Tofu of the year

yes please carrie,let's go for those awards for roger. and carrie gets the "bitter poster of the year award".

Re: Nugz , 2/18/10 6:31 AM

These 500 players you mentioned never see Roger in the locker room. Some of them are not there long enough to get a cup of coffee before they are knocked out, so don't tell me it's anything to do with his popularity in the locker room. It's a Sportsmanship award, it's not for patronizing players who lie on their backs and let's you tickle their tummy.

Too easy a winning makes the prize light, but knowing Roger, he would definitely think he deserves it being the narcissist that he is, with his inordinate fascination of himself. I wouldn't be surprised if Mats Wilander didn't stuff the ballot box with votes, pretending to be a player.

Rafa is the Darling of the tennis viewing public all over the world, just for being Rafa. They ATP can keep their rigged awards, which this year, has shown has no credibility whatsoever.

'''Rafa is the Darling of the tennis viewing public all over the world, just for being Rafa. They ATP can keep their rigged awards, which this year, has shown has no credibility whatsoever'''.

I dont think so carrie. Are you saying now that the awards are rigged? It just gets better.I cannot believe my eyes when i read this.

I have just read rafa being on the front of "SOBEFIT" magazine. what i wonder is isnt rafa supposed to be rehabbing his knees? How does he have time to be promoting other persons videos/doing video shoots with himself? shouldnt he be looking after himself? I suppose its fine for rafa doing this? I'd be more concerned about him, not roger if I were you carrie,

Re: carrie, 2/18/10 9:33 AM

"but knowing Roger, he would definitely think he deserves it being the narcissist that he is.."

Knowing Roger?? Really?

It looks like Rafa had a chance at the Fan Favourite Award...

Roger Federer: The Swiss, who is admired for his work on and off the court, continues to be a fan favourite by millions of fans around the world, who have voted him as ATPWorldTour.com Fans' Favourite for a record seventh consecutive year. Federer received 52% percent of all votes, followed by Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic.

"What I think is that people only want to read the truth when it is convenient."

I agree, Cheryl, so here's a little truth for you. You can choose to read it or ignore it.

There are two important questions to bear about this award. First, what Fed did at the U.S. Open and Miami cannot be denied. We all saw it. I would ask a simple question: Does cussing at the umpire one time at a very heated moment and smashing a racket at another heated moment outweigh what happened all the other times? I stand second to none in my appreciation for Edberg (even if he did foot fault on every serve), but is perfection the necessary standard? Was there any other player who behaved perfectly at all times every time out on the court -- and back in the locker room? I don't know -- and neither do you -- but I doubt it. So, a single racket smashing and cursing should be grounds for automatic disqualification when it comes to a sportsmanship award? I don't know; maybe. Obviously enough players, whom, I assume, were voting anonymously and therefore in confidence that they could say and do whatever they wanted without anyone finding out, voted for Roger to win. So, they would say those two incidents weren't enough.

That leads to the other important question, which is about the voting process. As much as all of the experts in this thread might proclaim, I don't think anyone really knows how this award is voted on. Do you, Cheryl? My best understanding after a few minutes of poking around the Web is that ATP throws out a list of four or five candidates and the players vote. This raises two valid points:

1.) If the other four names consisted of Ilie Nastase, Jimmy Connors and John McEnroe, then Federer smashing his racket once and cursing twice one time probably DESERVED the award. Since we don't really know who else was nominated -- and what their transgressions were and what players think of them -- we can't say with any certainty as to whether Federer was better or worse than the field.

2.) The wider the field of candidates is in any voting process, the more likely it is to get a perhaps skewed result -- particularly if the vote is one vote for one person and not weighted (vote for three: x points for your No. 1 pick, y for No. 2, z for No. 3). My guess, again, is that it's pick one. Because the vote totals weren't released, we don't know who got what percentage. It could be that Federer got only, let's say, 24 percent of the vote -- meaning that 76 percent of the players thought he WASN'T the most sportsmanlike of the players on the year, yet everyone else split the vote, so Federer finished with the most votes, even though his total was far from a majority.

I don't write for a tennis site, so it's not my job to do the reporting, but Cheryl, how about doing a little research and interview someone at ATP who might be able to shed some light on this process rather than just throwing raw meat out to the wolves, huh? It might lead to some insight and real understanding rather than the usual spitstorm. Of course, calm discussion doesn't lead to multiple page views and mentions that push the site up to the top of a Google search, does it?

Oh well.

P.S. This should also get your panties in a twist: ATP also voted Shanghai as Tournament of the Year. Shanghai! Have a nice day!

SenorPlaid, as I mentioned before, cheryl already said it was a "minor incident," back then but has chosen not to respond. your post above was interesting to say the least .

it was NOT a big deal at all. Roddick does worse on a regular basis with nobody batting an eye. It was only because it was Federer saying it that everyone is in a tizzy.
cherylmurray , 9/15/09 3:21 AM

The point is someone who did not have a clean sheet has no right to win an award over someone who has, that's what we are talking about. Just like I would have been surprised it Roddick or Gonzo had won the sportsmanship award, I am equally surprised that Roger has.

Next time Cheryl will call a spade a spade. It was evident that it was a big deal, but probably to quell any ideas that the offiial bloggers were fanning the anti-Fed flames , Cheryl tried to be diplomatic. I still think she has every right to question the fact that someone who does not have a flawless 2009 in the behaviour department, should win an award for it.

I think Roddick has been cheated, his record is no worse than Federer's. Everyone would be surprised if Serena wins the sportmanship award for 2009, even though she only had one violating incident. I think she should complain, because Federer who had at least 2 has won.

Apart from his obvious misdeamenors, Federer is so impolite when he challenges a call. He virtually barks out 'challenge'.

"The point is someone who did not have a clean sheet has no right to win an award over someone who has, that's what we are talking about."

No, the point is, carrie, that you HATE Roger Federer (and his fans) -- sorry, I don't know what other word best fuels your obsessive need to attack every single thing Federer does or his fans here write -- and you refuse to ever, EVER let anything go.

Because you have no idea how the award process went or who was nominated, you have nothing to add to the discussion but your well-documented and -- from your own admission -- biased opinion. You've made your point -- repeatedly. You're in danger of becoming a broken record, a self-parody.

Just. Let. It. Go. Your tenacity only invites further attacks. Unless you have something new -- and pertinent -- to add to the discussion, please just do us all a favor and move on.

Oh, and full disclosure: I don't really have an opinion on the matter, and it didn't matter to me either way if Federer won this award or not. I don't really care about popularity contests. I didn't put much thought into it, and I was a bit surprised that he won.

However, I was VERY glad he won knowing exactly how that would play to a certain faction on this here site. And you haven't disappointed. The entertainment value in watching the garment-rending apoplectic fits has been worth it.

Well done, ATP!

SenorPlaid,you are a very genuine poster to me(it seems).for a spare hour today, i have looked at Ms. Cheryl Murray's profile of work on TT, and find it confusing to see(depending on how the mood is with her), what she writes about federer. here is one such example:

I'd like to take the opportunity to say thank you to both men. They are rivals, but respectful of each other. They are gentlemen yet fierce competitors. They are superb athletes and flawless ambassadors. And let's not forget that they've given us what might be the greatest tennis match of all time. In short, they are the backbone of the sport. Precisely what will happen to tennis when we lose our backbone, I shudder to think.
Cheryl Murray

so, why is it that on the one hand she says, "gentlemen", flawless ambassadors", and this silly writing by her above, just seems in direct contrast. moody writing. take the majority of what federer does, 99% of him, and enjoy it, don't concentrate on the 1% (which was justified by some critics).

*yawn*

The player that won the award prior to Roger 2002-03 was Paradorn Srichaphan from Thailand ..

Also this little tidbit...

Indian Wells, Calif., February 18, 2010 ? The BNP Paribas Open, the most attended tennis tournament in the world outside of the four major events, to be held March 8-21, 2010, will hold a ?Hit For Haiti? exhibition on the evening of Friday, March 12, that will feature former BNP Paribas Open champions with a combined total of 44 Grand Slam singles titles, and is expected to raise a minimum of $1 Million for Haiti relief efforts, it was announced today by Steve Simon, tournament director.

Larry Ellison, who recently purchased the tournament, decided to coordinate a second Hit for Haiti exhibition after seeing the success it had at the Australian Open, where hundreds of thousands of dollars were raised for Haiti relief efforts. The event will feature 44 Grand Slam titles on the same court with Roger Federer and Pete Sampras playing Rafael Nadal and Andre Agassi. The event will be broadcast live on the Tennis Channel beginning at 7:30 PM PST.

The net proceeds from ticket sales to this session will be donated to the American Red Cross for their relief efforts in Haiti. Fans will also be able to donate to the relief effort through text messages and on-site contributions throughout the evening and event. In addition to these fund-raising efforts, Ellison will make a personal donation to this very special cause.

This should be fun, I'm looking forward to it already.

Thanks for letting us know, nellie.

ooo thank you nellie, that sounds supperrr exciting ! :D :D

sorry guys too much to read above so i donot know what to write as a whole, please stay calm and no matter if you are RF fans u have to admit this thing, U PEOPLE DONOT MENTION THAT AUS OPEN 2009 INCIDENT AND ARE NOT EVEN READY TO GIVE RAFA CREDIT , that was the most sportsman-like act of 2009(even for the past decade) and a role model 'moment' for all players in the present and future, rafa made us feel so proud.
What surprised me was this thing ' the holder of the best sportsmanship moment vs the holder of the worst sportsmanhip moment of 2009 on the mens tour, the latter won the award, thats the only reason This award surprised me ,hardly anything beyond this honestly !

Vamosrafa, if Rafa's name was on the list then the players obviously didn't feel he deserved the award. And even his touching scene at AO 2009 didn't help his cause...hmmm...maybe they know more than us.

nellie, i get what you are saying dude but i think its more about the popularity thing.may be a bit irrelevant ( if yes then excuse it) ,there is a small scenario that mite make things clearer, u are in high school and 2 candidates are nominated to contest for the post of the sports president of the school, one candidate is senior in repute and more popular in the school, so he has like many best friends or sumthing, assume you are one of his best friends too. so when elections come whom will you vote for ?? even tho the junior one deserves it a lot more ( lets assume it this way) ,but whom will you vote for ?? i am sure your best friend !even though you know the other one deserves much more, so as cheryl pointed out its abt the popularity thing not necessarily the sportsmanship role model thing, she is so right but people has misinterpreted her blog. please donot even assume the senior member was federer and the junior rafa in this scenario !! it was just an effort to make things clearer but some one may even say it was poor so if thats the case, its still very much OK :)

and it turns into a Fedal war again,

why are peopel bringing up Rafael Nadal, I thought the article or blog or whatever was about Federer.

What is it about Roger Federer that no one can stay on topic and have to turn it into
a Roger-Rafa war, did'nt Rafa nominate Roger for the Laureus award after wiining it on 2008 ? So they seem to respect each other why can't their fans ?

NAm1 , the blog has that arousing effect so when federer fans angrily say who else deserves to win and belittle other players then of course... , what do you expect?
plus my friend it was the prince of asturias award not the laureus sportsman.

this is what i dislike here vamos, read the words above in the blog.
('''okay, that was a cheap shot, I admit it)'''. when the chief writer stops writing in this way, then may be there wont be so many disagreements.why dont you comment on that for a change?

stu if you are yawning all the time,why dont you sleep?

and this is what sport and sportsmanship is all about:

Listen to this news. Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal, Pete Sampras and Andre Agassi will compete in a doubles "Hit for Haiti" exhibition at the Indian Well Tennis Garden on Friday, March 12.

The teams? According to the Indian Wells website Federer will team with Sampras to play Nadal and Agassi. That's 44 total Grand Slams on the same court! Outrageous!

so let's do some celebrating for this rather than cheap shots from a certain few.

hehe ...i think fed and nadal should be on the same team to even things out 22-22 ....might be one side heavy if fed goes with sampras ... you know who will start complaining conspiracy :P heheheh

C'MON !!
AO10...where we've lifted one down under

yes maxi and fedexfan , this one sounds really exciting :) rafa and andre are so strong from the baseline , pete is so strong at the net and good from the b.l while roger can play anywhere buit b.l is his strength. and lol @ 22-22 slams apiece ,haha but the young duo will demolish the old one now. its gona be more of the fun thing so they will not compete properly , anyway i always wanted to see rafa throwing hwavy balls onto pete's bakhand ( he struggled so much playing high balls thrown to his b.h) lol

vamosrafa at it again, trying to put his 'brilliant' ideas when we all know the players are closer to Fed and Nadal than he will ever be.

LOL... crack me up how some ppl think their opinion are much better than the one who is actually playing...

Vamosrafa must be imagining himself being a tennis pro player.. LOL...

Thanks for your 'clown' moments, vamosrafa.

I just hope they manage to keep Agassi and Sampras apart.

it's fed and sampras v rafa and agassi. all in the name of fun, something sadly missing here.

I am sorry Cheryl, I don´t agree with your approach. I believe this Award is to congratulate a player´s attitute mainly towards his peers and the sport itself. Roger, for example, always waits for his opponents to pack after the match and then leave the court together with them. He, unlike other top players, never takes time to serve, bouncing the ball endlessly, he never calls the medical team when he is losing, like many players do nowadays. He respects the sport he loves. And his opponents. He hates to lose, that´s true, but that´s because he is a true champion, a legend of the sport.
But some people do a mountain out of a moehill of everything he does and says, while other players are always portrayed as naive boys. There are no naive boys there, no naive person gets to be an elite sportsman.
So, let´s enjoy Roger´s tennis and let he be the Ambassador for this sport! I hope he plays many more years. Just adore him.

oncen again torres adding his expected crap ,the way i presented the view point is almost acceptable to al RF fans here and shows we have decent Rf fans here too and i need not mention their names it is obvious ! just a praise for nadal and torres feels like burning in hell ! i saw you i another post writing negatives abt rafa's sportsmanship, fine , but i didnt see that oz open 09 thing mentioned , that clearly shows pure jealousy,ignorance or whatever !

Well, I love Roger Federer because he is speaks his mind, when he has to rant, he does, I know what he thinks. But he is great on court as a players and as an Embassador for the Sports. I hate so called perfect boys, they are always fake.

Rafa comforting Roger during AO09 trophy presentation was (still is) indeed touching and speak volumes of his nature as well as the relationship the two shared. I've said it multiple times but they get along and respect each other so much. Sadly, SOME of their fans are a direct contrast to having that respect for each other.

You can hate Roger or Rafa, but please give credit where it is due and do not diminish their accomplishments. Some of the stuff that are said here are so ridiculously baseless and bitter that I really had a good chuckle about it. :)

And I think vamosrafa made a valid point that ultimately, this IS a popularity contest. If the award is thrown out to a whole bunch of people to VOTE on, OF COURSE it's a popularity contest! I don't think players toss and turn at night thinking "hmmm, what is a GOOD SPORTSMAN? What is sportsmanship? Gee, who should I vote for?" They just ticked the first good guy that comes into mind, and that guy being Roger Federer.

That being said, although it is a popularity contest, it also illustrates clearly how highly that Roger's colleagues thought of him. Yes, haters think he does not deserve it (or anything he has ever won, probably, Slams included) based on what they see and read. But being that these people who voted for Fed are around him constantly during tournaments and what not, I'm going to be really controversial here and say that they ACTUALLY know Roger as a PERSON, more than we, fans and haters alike, ever will.

I don't think they gain anything from voting for Roger. It's not like "Hey, Rog, I voted for you, so how about letting me beat you in Round 2 of French Open should we meet?"

Roger is the tour vetaran for now, and one of the spokesperson for the sport. His presence is undeniable. I do think Rafa deserves the award as well...and I think his time to scoop up is on the cards and yet to come.

jyannis,what a brilliantly fair post.the last one i read tonight,so i end on a high.very fair,very true,very enjoyable to read. thank you.

i secod that, good post and a fair one too.i also try to post like this but some people just make you go astry sometimes ;/ .

Carrie said Roger is a narcissit. He never appeared in a pop star video clip though LOL I thinks he prefers to play tennis, that´s how he is recognized.

And guess what the brigade of nadal fans and some So called tennis experts are bitter yet again after another RF triumph Go Roger

Lulu,

I take issue with some of your implied criticism and digs at Rafa. They are not very subtle. It's unfortunate that you must litter your post with these tired cliched criticisms that are directed at Rafa. The reference to endless bouncing of the ball in a match. What about the so-called naive person or the perfect person? I am sick to death of Fed fans gratuitously taking pot shots at Rafa, while pretending to be outraged at supposed slights to Fed. It's the worst kind of hypocrisy and dishonesty. Though you didn't have the courage to name Rafa, it was obvious who you were slamming. It's reprehensible. Every time there is a blog on this site that even hints at any criticism of Fed, immediately the swords and knives come out and Fed fans start carving up Rafa. Then you came right out and trashed Rafa for doing a video with Shakira. Of course, you will say that this was because carrie called Fed a narcissist! Baloney! You could have chosen to address that issue directly, but instead you took the cheap route of bringing up Rafa's video with Shakira, which has precisely nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion.

Fed fans should accept Rafa's wins over their guy with grace and good sportsmanship themselves. Now there's a concept! Contrary to what torres tennis 2010 and many other Fed fans, this Rafa fan is not jealous of what Fed has done. I am proud of Rafa and his accomplishments and that is what I choose to celebrate.

As for you torres, I noticed that you brought me up in one of your earlier posts here. I dislike being labeled a rabid Rafa fan. Take a good look in the mirror and then talk about being rabid. You are one of the chief instigators on this site and this particular Rafa fan will no longer try to engage in a civil discussion with you. It's utterly pointless.

All anyone has to do is look at the tenor and tone of your posts when you are losing an argument, to see who is the childish, emotional one who attacks others personally. If you can't make an argument without diverting the issue, indulging in shameless personal attacks on Rafa AND his fans, then just back off!

This is fair warning - if you call me out in a way that I find offensive and insulting, I will respond. I have already taken your arguments on another thread and shredded them piece by piece. I have no problem taking your comments apart if you persist in shamelessly attacking me in a place where I have not even joined in the discussion. Now I have made my voice heard.

Native

I don´t get your point. I just found it funny Rafa taking part at the video. LOL Very funny, indeed. I am not attacking him just making a point. I am not offending him or his fans. And I never attacked you! I don´t even know you. You back off. This is a free place and Nadal is not above criticism. I didn´t use any offensive word or threaten against him or his fans. Although not his fan I respect him. But if someone has the right to say Federer is narcissist I have the right to say I think Rafa is more. Just that. OK Nadal in showbizz is fun ! Just that LOL

Yeah.. NNY is just pretending to be a level-headed rational poster here. When all she is what most Rafans are like carrie, vamosrafa, memi:

Angry, deluded, sensitive, distressed, biased...

Point: If Fed didnt get this award, who else? One thing's for sure: it's definitely not Rafa so all of the Rafans who are here crying that their hero never gets this award need to realize that the players never felt the 'overflowing sportsmanship' by Rafa because he just doesnt potray it on-court

VAMOS! = bad sportsmanship

Nativenewyorker, vamosrafa, carrie, you are hularious. You are so foaming at the mouth. Please keep up your fantasy posts aboit Rafa, I have not been so entertained for years. Bottom line, the players voted for Roger, nobody asked you for your vote.

Nativenewyorker, vamosrafa, carrie, you are hularious. You are so foaming at the mouth. Please keep up your fantasy posts aboit Rafa, I have not been so entertained for years. Bottom line, the players voted for Roger, nobody asked you for your vote.

That's exactly my point. They are just sourgrapes to the highest level.

They come here and try to push their agenda that Rafa is somehow victimized not realizing Rafa is the biggest offender of fairplay.. LOL...

It's just crucifying for them that Rafa always comes 2nd to Fed. No.2 for a record 160 consecutive weeks LOL...

cant someone jst write blogs on players OTHER THAN NADAL OR FEDERER!! coz cherly and all the rest of the bloggers always write about them, and everytime they dp, a fedal war begins. to tell the truth, these wars are getting really monotone, with immature comments on both sides.(Though based on what I've read, Rafa fans always start the wars, particularly on Federer threads.)

Federer may end up winning more sportsmanship awards than Edberg but he has never been and will never be the absolute gentleman and sportsman the award was named after... not in my eyes anyway. I do think that Federer's achievements and dominance of the sport almost guarantees him automatic nominations for awards like this because some tennis battler ranked no. 82 in the world isn't going to be recognised or be "worthy" enough for such a prestigious award, is it? Unless the player is well known, he does not receive even a glance by anyone to have a chance.

i think people miss the point! THE PLAYERS VOTED FOR ROGER, AND THEY SHOULD KNOW. Who cares if anyone else agrees or disagrees?

The reason I believe Roger is a great sportsman is because of little gestures he has and that are overlooked, like when he waits for his opponents to pack before leaving court or giving on court interviews. Although Nadal´s gesture of hugging him was kind, this is not what sportsman is about. Some people here are misunderstanding the concept. When Nadal hugged Roger, he did this in front of a bunch of journalists who were avid for a beautiful pic. And he knwe that, sorry. He knew It would make sports front pages, for sure, and everybody would talk about it. Being a good sportsman goes beyond beautiful pics.

When the media was trying to write Rafa off, Roger was the one player saying he would return. He has never once sujected the spainard to ridicule or downgrading and has always said the nicest things about him. And when Roger was playing at WTF last year, Rafa was in the stands cheering him on.
Both men are truly impressive!

"...some tennis battler ranked no. 82 in the world isn't going to be recognised or be "worthy" enough for such a prestigious award, is it? Unless the player is well known, he does not receive even a glance by anyone to have a chance.
"
Cable, as I posted earlier Paradorn Srichaphan, a seemingly gentle man won the award in 2002 and 2003 . Srichaphan is noted for his politeness on the court. At each match, he performs the wai, the traditional Thai greeting, clasping his hands together and bowing to the four corners of the stadium. The gesture is seen as thanking the fans and it has become his trademark."

So obviously the award if being given to a player not because he is #1 or winning all the time but because of a certain quality, perhaps even gentleness that shines out beyond the game.

Lulu, where did you get your Federer Rose Tinted glasses from.

So Rafa hugged Roger to comfort him when he had a meltdown as if someone had taken his toys just to get in the papers. I suppose he also told Roger to be a cry-baby.

Carrie said Roger is a narcissit. He never appeared in a pop star video clip though LOL I thinks he prefers to play tennis, that´s how he is recognized.

Lulu , 2/19/10 12:24 AM

Being a narcissist ony means that you love yourself too much, so that does not qualify Roger to make a pop video, as he simply does not have the X-Factor. Rafa has it in spades. I can't imagine Shakira ever thinking - ' I know, I'll as Roger Federer to make my Gypsy video with me'.

carrie,hi. i'll be honest with you. I didnt fully understand the word "narcissist", so i checked it up because i think it's only fair that(certainly for me),its important that i understand what you are saying about federer. so here goes:

Believing that you're better than others (isnt that true at the moment, that roger is better than others in his tennis? he is world no.1)?

Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
(you think roger is ugly, he does play about with his hair a lot, but then so does rafa, probably because they have "longish" hair - so he doesnt fit this?)

Exaggerating your achievements or talents (I would think that facts speak the loudest about his achievements?)

Expecting constant praise and admiration (yes, federer fans do the same as murray fans, rafa,davy,novak, etc. , and we do praise them and we do admire them), but doesnt that go for all tennis players?

Believing that you're special and acting accordingly

(roger's been told for a long time how special he is, (as I am sure, every other top player has been told by coach/wives/girlfriends/friends/family?).I'm told I am special by my mum and sometimes even "specially irritating!".

Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings (this certainly cannot be true of federer, he is probably THE most emotional person out there (with murray second based on AO performance).

Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans (he and rafa are No.1 and No.2 of tennis board to try and make things better for all players - so I suppose they do both take the lead and respect each other's view).

Taking advantage of others (no. I think that federer is a very giving man),but if you are talking about tennis, then surely all players have to take advantage of opportunities in a match in order to win?

Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior (have not seen this myself - always respectful and loves rafa especially, I think like a younger brother).
Being jealous of others (what has he got to be jealous about?)he has everything and more).
Believing that others are jealous of you (many people would be jealous of roger, am sure).
Trouble keeping healthy relationships (been with Mirka since 18/19 years old).
Setting unrealistic goals (not really. His goals are very realistic).
Being easily hurt and rejected (only he knows that).
Having a fragile self-esteem (dont know where this comes into it).
Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional (definitely tough minded, along with 999 other players on circuit, and we know he's not "unemotional", but very "emotional").

I sometimes wonder though if we all have a bit of narcissm in all of us? what do you believe?, and havent you got to love/like yourself first before you can give to others? I dont know.But you have made me think about a word, I didnt really know a lot about. Now I do. And I dont think that it matches your own definition (if you dont mind me saying).but it would be good carrie to have a decent discussion with you sometime. I cannot believe right now Tiger Woods is on the TV, so I have to cut it now.all the best carrie.i though you said in one of your posts that your "new carrie" had turned a corner at the beginning of the year? so why change?

What's wrong with loving urself. It's good. That's why Fed's in good shape now even at 27. He takes care of his health and body.

torres, Federer is not 27 - he is 28. It just explains why you write so much incomprehensible stuff.

Good job maxi for listing the mwaning of narcissism, I feel so justified identifying Federer as suffering from it. One the qualitiesyou disagreed with I find speaks volumes about Federer:

Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings (this certainly cannot be true of federer, he is probably THE most emotional person out there (with murray second based on AO performance).

It was precisely this train of his character that made him cry to ruin Rafa's celebration of his AO win.
:

carrie,it really is no problem.I am glad to assist.Roger is a wonderful human being, I hope one day to be as good an ambassador to people one day - (saw the Tiger woods interview I mentioned above - just sickly sweet, am not sure whether he means the words he says, but his mama was in the audience).

also,could you tell me why it is that at the beginning of the year you said you "turned a corner" and were willing to be nicer to Roger (not that it matters in the big picture),i think you turning into a bit of a prune carrie - :(

and really,if you support rafa so much,shouldnt you listen to what he says about roger? that he understood how roger was feeling, and that roger was very sorry for his outburst of grief,i myself had tears in my eyes, i loved them both at that moment, older and younger brother, a lovely moment in sport.

carrie, dont be a prune.you can say such good stuff sometimes until you go prune like.

27 or 28... owhh well, cant tell the difference. Actually I think Fed is 25 judging by his form.

And Rafa is actually 29 if u look at how he slumps on court now.

Carrie

I disagree with you. The X factor is a point of view. I respect Nadal as player sure. But he is by no means attractive to me. Sorry, he has no X facto or whatever to me. And regarding the Gypsy video, I thought it is fun, just that. Maybe he will try showbizz, I don´t care.

And regarding Shakira asking Roger to take part of her video, Gypsy, I agree, she would never think of him since I believe they have very different style !

Roger is pretty hot to me, it is a question of point of view. Cool?

And I don´t think he tried to ruin Rafa´s moment! Roger doesn´t need to, he is considered by most as the greatest player that ever lived!

hmm and now the only thing Nadal fans have got to cheer is him appearing in a pop vdo

short and simple...
Roge is realy greatest champion... but sportsmanship is something completely different...
We simply don't have chance to see Roge's sportsmanship... simply because he is still winning !
In defeats... you can see someone's sportsmanship. He isn't great looser...we saw that... rarely I have to admit.
For me...sportsmanship is when Nole on break point said to Andy R. : "Challenge this!". How many times we saw Novak said... "No need for challenge... the ball was in." That's it. Simply.
I don't say that Novak should be chosen. He had his part in bad words and racquet smashing... but Roge is not sportsman of year.
Most popular...yes...greatest champ...yes...but his sportsmanship will bee visible when (or if) he starts to lose more often.

Cable, as I posted earlier Paradorn Srichaphan, a seemingly gentle man won the award in 2002 and 2003 . Srichaphan is noted for his politeness on the court. At each match, he performs the wai, the traditional Thai greeting, clasping his hands together and bowing to the four corners of the stadium. The gesture is seen as thanking the fans and it has become his trademark."

So obviously the award if being given to a player not because he is #1 or winning all the time but because of a certain quality, perhaps even gentleness that shines out beyond the game. (nellie , 2/19/10 3:44 PM)

Nellie, I think you missed my point. I was not indicating that to win the award you needed to be #1. I'm not saying Fed is a bad guy either. But being in the limelight he perhaps gets more than his fair share of nods for awards such as this because some lower ranked player has been overlooked. BTW, Srichapan was ranked pretty high during that period. He was as high as #9 so it's not like he was ranked outside the top 50 of something.

All right, I will take you people one at a time -

Lulu,

Don't try to back off from comments that are obviously and blatantly critical of Rafa - it's insulting to the rest of us. If you want to post something negative about Rafa, then be prepared for the criticism from Rafa fans. We are not going to lay down and let you trash our guy. No way! Don't YOU tell me what to say and how to say it here. You worry about yourself and I will worry about myself.

However, you revealed your underlying bias and hatred when you dismissed Rafa's embrace of Fed at the 2009 AO final. That is just about as low as someone can go! If that isn't true sportsmanship, then what on earth is, for heaven's sake? It's like some of you Fed fans are so blinded by your pathological hatred for Rafa that you can't even give him credit when he shares his special moment of victory with the man he defeated! It was the most selfless, generous gesture I have seen in the many years that I have been watching tennis. But trust someone like you to demean even that! There is no limit to the depths you people will go when it comes to attacking Rafa.

torres,

You are becoming a bit of a clownish joke here. Calling me names will not change the fact that you are an instigator, incapable of making a credible, logical argument when it comes to Rafa. Unfortunately for you and other Fed fans, you can never take away all that Rafa has done. Comparing Rafa to Fed is one of your more dishonest, disingenuous attempts to diminish Rafa's greatness. Why don't you compare Rafa to one of his peers, the guys who are about the same age? Let's take a look at the record - hmmm, Djoko - one grand slam, no grand slam win against Fed; Murray - no grand slam wins to date, two losses to Fed in grand slams; Delpo -one grand slam win against the one and only Fed.

Now, shall we compare Rafa's grand slam record to the players listed above, the ones who are in his age bracket? Or are we going to be lame enough to compare Rafa to a man who is five years older and entered the sport before Rafa ever came along? This is an oxymoronic argument. Do any Fed fans honestly believe that Rafa should have won 16 grand slams at the age of twenty three? Are you kidding with this nonsense? Fed fans make fools out of themselves by persisting in comparing Rafa's record with Fed. Rafa's records stand completely on their own. You cannot get around facts and cannot destroy or wave it away as though you had a magic wand. To do what Rafa has done at such a young age is astounding on its own. It need not be compared to anyone. That's the fake argument that people like torres use to try to win an argument. Fed fans are the ones who need to worship a demi-God, a man without flaws who is perfect. That's why you hate Rafa - because he destroyed the perfection that you believe rightly belongs to Fed. Guess what!! Too darn bad! Boo hoo on all of you. You wish we were jealous of Fed. But the truth is that Fed fans don't understand why Rafa's fans love him. The victories, especially all those grand slam wins against the "Master", have been so very sweet, but in the end it's about Rafa the young man. I love him for who he is and how he deals with victory AND defeat. He is a humble, decent, kind, well-mannered, respectful person.

With or without all the records, the real fans of tennis, those who love the sport and appreciate the excitement and thrill that someone like Rafa has brought to tennis, will remember him long after he retires. Those Fed fans who continue to trash Rafa are giving the ultimate insult to Fed. If Rafa is a nobody, a mediocrity, then how in the world did he win against Fed all those times? The more you refuse to acknowledge Rafa's own greatness, the more you demean the man you presume to worship.

Some Fed fans need to bask in the reflected glory of Fed and his considerable accomplishments. But that is not what motivates this Rafa fan. I love Rafa for how he plays, who he is, how he conducts himself, everything that makes up this exceptional young man.

But Fed fans will never even begin to understand. I don't care about sportsman awards. If Fed wins, fine. If Rafa wins, fine. If somebody else wins, fine. It's not like it's that big a deal, except to Fed fans.

One last comment on the truly embarrassing hypocrisy of Fed fans. One week Cheryl Murray is your heroine, the next week she is the wicked witch! Come on, people! The woman expressed her opinion! That's what it is - her opinion! She has the right to say what she thinks. I am just sorry that she felt the need to respond to some of the truly thin-skinned Fed fans who can't handle anything except fulsome, unqualified praise for their guy. But when it was about Fed not getting the credit he deserved, then the Fed fans ran out of superlatives for Cheryl! You guys kill me. It's just a shame that everyone on the face of the earth doesn't revolve around Fed and the complete adoration and hero worship that must be his and only his.

Hear, hear... well said NNY. As great as Fed is, there is one man who has defeated him many times on the biggest of stages, the final of grand slams. Rafa deserves his place amongst the greats.

loving this, because STILL no one is listening! The players voted for Roger.It has NOTHING to do with what we think,we have to accept that players voted for roger and they know best, they see roger day in,day out,share meals,laughs,jokes in the locker room, and one thing i notice is that when the coin is tossed, roger ALWAYS asks his opponent to choose the side.It's called sportsmanship.I hope Roger continues to play well and continues to enjoy tennis as much as I enjoy watching him.

Hi zare,i have to agree. Novak is the ONE player who is so nice when he loses,he almost asks his opponent at the end, (when he hugs),"do you want to go for a beer later?"). Novak is a true gentleman,that cannot be denied.and there are so many instances. For example, zare, the times i have seen novak smash his racquet and i know you will be fair (they have been many),BUT that doesnt mean I think any less of the man. (at all),i like to see that as novak "really" showing his passion.he doesnt (and no one does) want to go on court smashing racquets,its his passion that puts him in this place,a venting of anger for a split second,it's out of his system and he moves on with his game. this is called passion,love for the game.zare, you will know this, but how much was his fine for last time smashing his racquet? was it 2,000$?,but evenso, novak came third in this award,rafa second.the top three guys on the tour-
we are all human,and i think when people keep bringing up 1 incident, it becomes yawning boring, no one is arguing that rafa deserves his place amongst the great - he is already up there in my viewpoint,safe and sound-no denying that at all.

we all adore our own player,NNY,you adore rafa nadal,you hero worship him. i understand that adoration,we love our players. Now if we had posters of them on our walls, and made RF mashed potato, then that would be weird, but it's healthy to admire so many good qualities about someone.there's nothing wrong with that.

maxi, I like what you said.

To be fair, we are ALL biased, aren't we? Yes, Fed fans did call Cheryl out on this post because she wrote something negative about Roger, and yet applauded the piece she wrote before that about Roger not getting credit. But come on, aren't Rafa fans the same? Just click back on Cheryl's blog post to read some of the outraged and bitter comments made by some Rafafans, AND then read THIS one to see them applauding Cheryl! It is the same "hypocrisy", if you want to call it that, frankly I believe it is too strong a word. It is simply people reading what they want to read and posting respective comments about what they agree/disagree with.

We are humans; we ARE biased. We want to believe our favourite player is the best. We bristle when there's a slighest inclination/comment being made that they are not. Fed fans, Rafa fans, Nole fans, Andy M fans, all alike! Of course we will say nice things and defend the people we like! That is why we LIKE them, right!?

Let's take tennis players out of the context for a bit and talk about real life. Someone made a negative comment about your best friend. How will you react? By defending what you THINK is right. And ALL of that is subjective. Thoughts and opinions are subjective. Rather than shoving opinions down people's throat, being sarcastic and cutting when you're not being agreed with. Seriously we are all just going around in neverending circles with this debate. I think it is the best to agree to disagree, move on to world peace and no nuclear wars, what to have for dinner tomorrow, etc.

Oh by the way, Rafa looks totally awesome in the video with Shakira. Honestly there's no harm in him doing a little side project for fun. He has to have other stuff to do besides training/playing tennis. I don't know why is he called narcisstic, that didn't really make sense in my humble opinion.

jyannis, yes. we are human,we are biased. we see what we want to see, and i thought about what you said:

"Someone made a negative comment about your best friend. How will you react? By defending what you THINK is right. And ALL of that is subjective".

i cant agree with you more.

the word narcissistic was not meant for rafa,(i dont know where you read that?) it was said by carrie about roger federer. but as humans,to some degree we are narcissistic?for example, when going for an interview? we want to look our best, say our best, be the best. i dont think it is different for any person in any job (to a degree).i cannot imagine what would be like to be constantly under the spotlight, day in,day out,every time,having to watch what you wear,who you see,what you do,what you eat,who you talk to.

maxi, you wrote: "loving this, because STILL no one is listening! The players voted for Roger.It has NOTHING to do with what we think,we have to accept that players voted for roger and they know best, they see roger day in,day out,share meals,laughs,jokes in the locker room, and one thing i notice is that when the coin is tossed, roger ALWAYS asks his opponent to choose the side.It's called sportsmanship..."

Umm, sportsmanship has nothing to do with what Roger does off court. And with the coin toss, there is nothing particularly special about asking his opponent to choose sides. The winner of the coin toss usually chooses to either serve or receive, or their opponent gets the choice of sides, but the winner can choose the side instead of electing to serve or receive. Those are the rules.

We have every right to question the integrity of the procedures or system used to select the award winner. After all, corruption and mishandling occurs in every organisation from smallest to the largest. I'm not saying Fed is undeserving (at least for previous years) but perhaps judgement may have been impaired by his achievements and winning records and some other player overlooked. Sportsmanship is not about winning, its about being gracious and humbled in defeat. Some players don't get the spotlight that Fed enjoys so are most probably overlooked in his favour. That's all.

Hmm. I don't really understand this article a lot. Roger received the award because the other tennis players voted for him. Being that they are the ones that play against Roger on the court, they will know best whether is he a good sportsman?

I do agree it was shocking (to me) when Roger lost his temper like that. But as someone had mentioned (I did not finish reading all the replies because there are a lot and some are really hard to read) maybe they are two incidents that the other players are willing to say that it didn't matter very much in the bigger scale, therefore they still voted for him. That may be the case.

However even if I do agree Roger is a good sportsman, I did think there is a better candidate for the award this year. Rafael Nadal is very nice to Roger during Australian Open last year, it was a good example of graciousness. I thought also maybe Novak Djokovic should win, he is very gracious, and he had improved his attitude a lot. Or maybe Fabrice Santoro as he is always smiling and happy and it is good watching him play, and he loses with spirit and humor. And because I think he is old and retiring, it will be nice to give him an award.

But this is of course just my personal opinion.

Cable, that's great! thanks for your reply.

yea i think cable summed it up nicely. Its hard to place any objections to some of the awards federer won becoz they were all so well deserved but this time may be it was his the influence of his legacy over all players which earned him the award, who knows but that this looks like a sound judgement.

The question still remained: Who should have won it if not Roger.

Anyone has any idea? Paradorn was chosen becuase he made nice gestures to the opponent. Same with Roger. He always congratulate opponents when he wins at the net and when he loses he still embrace the opponent.

And most of the time being asked about his next opponent, he will say what's good about the opponent. His knowledge of almost all players' game shows how he appreciates the game.

I dont think Djoker, Rafa, Muzza should have won it anyway so if there is one, it should be other players but no one stands out.

It's hard to find a tennis player nowadays that is Stefan-Edberg like anymore. Everyone wants to win.

So the best sportsman currently (at least in the top 10) is still Federer.

torres, ur point actually might be fine but the way u have conveyed it is not convincing.
"He always congratulate opponents when he wins at the net and when he loses he still embrace the opponent." ( i think djokoker provides the warmest embraces nowadays! hugs the opponent with a decent smile and even rafa is quick to congratulate)

"And most of the time being asked about his next opponent, he will say what's good about the opponent. His knowledge of almost all players' game shows how he appreciates the game." That is not something unique too to be honest, like take nadal's any press conference ,even pre match ones, he will be like ' i need to play my best tennnis if i am to win , the opponent is very dangerous and any1 can beat any one " ,even if the surface is clay and the opponent is a top 100! djoker also has developed the habit of throwing huge compliments for his opponents even after losing, and infinitely many times have i heard rafa saying ' he was the better player on the day and deserved to win ' ,latest example being the loss to murray ! so may be u donot read or listen to press conferences of these players enugh and focus too much on federer so u are advised to have a look at some pressers after rafa or even djo lose a match!

and i still wonder how quikly people avoid mentioning that WONDERFUL oz open 2009 moment , one of the best sporting moments in tennis and rafa handled it superbly well despite the fact that roger's tear spoiled his victory celebration (how big a moment was that for rafa, first spaniard ever to win a hard court slam,his maiden hard ocurt slam over roger ) but still rafa knew his rival was facing serious emotional problems and was in a tough situation so held back superbly,it was like he was feeling so sorry for federer ! true gentleman.

so CONSIDERING THE LAST YEAR ONLY, given roger's US open incident and that somewhat trivial miami incident how can we conclude it was roger who deserved it more than these guys especially nadal :S :S :S very confusing, so as cheryl put it was abt the popularity contest and roger's well-established supreme status :).

Nahhh... Rafa doesnt come close to being the best sportman there becoz his manner on-court is unsportsmanlike in every way.

If it's a popularity contest, then is Rafa not popular?

Why is he not popular? Easy. Coz. He's unsportsmanlike.

i need to play my best tennnis if i am to win , the opponent is very dangerous and any1 can beat any one

And then when he loses to Sod he says, 'it's mostly abt me not playing my best' LOL

Same when he loses to Delpo in Indian Wells,

' He didnt play unbelievable, it's just me not play my best'

Rafa is not a saint. Just because he looks like an innocent guy doesnt mean he acts pure all the time.

the only guy on atp tour to have never smashed a racquet on the ground ,forget breaking it !!! i donot think knee thrusting is unsportsmanlike at all :S .popularity contest, i linked popularity with legacy,roger's repute is surely the highest because of his supreme status among players. rafa uses those thrusts and vamosing to get himself going as he does it even when 5-0 down but it may not create a good feeling in the heart of the opponent , imagine you are a part of a greuling 35 shot rally and get passed by an impossible nadal forehand and then at the corner of your eye u see him vamosing and fist pumping , may b u dont feel good abt it becoz u had also worked so hard . just a viewpnt tho who knows what players feel from inside .

but the thing is there is no such incident on court that proves rafa acts unsportsmanlike ,like roggie's us open and miami incidents, rafa has never done sumthing like that , i still remember his match with gulbis at wimby 08, 5-5 30-30 gulb serve and he hit a drop shot that rafa chased, rafa pikd it but the umpire gave the pnt to gulbis saying the ball had bounced twice, nadal was amazed and surely angry from inside and camera replays also showed rafa made a CLEAN pick up! but all he did was go the umpire and say ' i donot believe it, i dont believe it' and turned away! no further bad-mouthing or something ! so rafa has never given any memorable moments that are unsportsmanlike,but gave a moment to remember for decades in oz 2009. plus if u do think his certain behaviors are not up to the mark of being called true sportsmanlike then what abt the fact that you urself said it twice that we cant have a perfect sportsman and all players tend to make some mistakes afterall ! so neglecting an F-bomb, a racket demolition and not even neglecting trivial mannerisms , does not make ANY sense my friend :)

tores. how nice of you to point out a couple of sentences from a whole presser ! his maiden loss in RG and clearly he was nowhere near his best and hsi best has crushed soder 6-1 6-0 in rome some weeks before so he offered a balanced view stating he was not at his best so cudnot do much but he did appreciate soder in that presser adn after that too. plus the fact that soder was/is nadal's only enemy ! lol, soder's misconduct in wimby 07 creatd hatred in rafa's heart,lol. once again you are ready to overlook F-bombs and Sh**s ,racket demolition and not ready to overlook a couple of senteces that donot even sound very bad , how fair is that my friend??? :D:D

i'm going to do what stu does now.

yawn. going to bed.

very sorry maxi, but some one always tempts you to write almost provokes you !

TORRES, u have started posting things so have a look at this, this is one of the most unsportsmanlike and depressing pressers i have ever seen ! tears flowing down his cheek( for no valid reason) and no single word of praise for djokovic ! saying i finished worse than him ... have a look miami 2009 loss to djo .now this leaves you with nothing to speak about so better stop posting useless material

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJc_UsOR3rs

haha... I dont deny Fed did all that... Just that 90% of the time he's the best sportman arounf whereas Nadal has always been a bad sportman on court.

And your opinion doesnt count as much as the players.

I am not saying my opinion is better but i rather listen to the players' opinion on Roger than u, vamosrafa.

Hahaha... Dubai O7 dude... Youtube it... And just watching Rafa play on TV we get to see how unsporting the guy is delaying points and overcelebrating.

Nuff said. Knock yourself out.

now dont runaway torres ! showing ur trademark :P so what do you have to comment abt that video han????? one sentence from rafa was like hell to you, 5 mins of unsportsmalike behaviour pardonable,how fair !!!!!! rafa has NO incident to mention and roger has a handful , still rafa is unsportsmanlike WOW, and he posseses the best sportsmanlike moment 2009 oz still he is is the culprit, always praising praising praising federer thruout their rivalry , yes roger has also praised him many many times but u have bad examples ! rome 2006 final , accused rafa of on-court coaching , a lie becoz it was later confirmed nothing of that sort had happened, wim 2008 ' the darkness was rough on me' as if it was only dark for roger himself , montecarlo 2007 ' rafa is one-dimensional ..' and then interupted by a journalist ' but he has been beating you again and again ....' :S :S :S !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I did not even want to post them BUt you forced this !!! i was like done after my post at 2/20/10 6.24 pm but you proved me again ! and these are ALL facts , UNDENIABLE !

*provoked

Yada ya da yada... and yet rafa never won a sportsmanship award... That's a fact..

No IF's... And apparently, the players dont think Rafa is sporting enough...

Doesnt matter if u post 1000 more posts it will not change their mind..

Vamos = bad sportsmanship

And to watch Rafa's bad sportsmanchip, u dun have to watch interviews. Just watch his matches.

Serial offender of sporting behaviour and 1 moment in the trophy presentation is gonna make ppl vote him for being sporting...

how hillarious...

LOL LOL LOL

now thats extremely coward of you torres 9, prettty clear you have NOTHING, totally NOTHING to write that can convince ,no facts no useful comments , so we call this thing crap and irrelevant stuff ,basically annoying every1 , so its better not to comment, u have failed miserably to provide any solid evidence , all you have done in your last 4 posts is POST ENGLISH PHRASES and laugh and demean rafa, so thats crap and a BIGGG proof of and example of how you drag an argument on and on and on , i wont post any thing further because its pretty clear you have nothing use ul to say except for laugh and post CRAP . so good bye on this one ! just compare the last 4 posts, posting solid tennis stuff vs posting english sentences !! HAHAHAHAAHAH .talk to your self now and be happy,better luck next time come better prepared so that you can provide evidence like I did .BYEEE :P :D

How humble is Nadal? A player who finds the doping policy too hard because he doesn´t want to bother to inform his whereabouts. Roger Federer is avalailable to be bothered at 6 AM but Nadal can´t? Rafa doesn´t seem humble here. Sorry.

hahaha... Look att whose running away now... The evidence is clear for everyone who watches Rafa plays...

Does this mean u never watch him play?

Better luck next time, pal

Lulu, What on earth has the WDA requirements for testing got to do with being humble. Rafa finds it insane to tell the whole world where he is 24/7, 365 days a year, and rightly so, he says even his mother doesn't know where he is all the time. He doesn't want the paparazzi getting whif of where he is day in day out because he wants to get on with his privae life in private.

As far as Federer is concerned, where else can he be but with his wife and children, he is a married man with two children.

when is Rafa getting married to Xisca?

Watched the shakira video, if I was Xisca i'll be steaming with jealousy.

torres and vamosrafa,do you think we could all move on from this ridiculous feud that you have with each other? you are always going to find "imperfect" situations that match what you are going to say,if you look hard enough.rather than concentrating on the good sides of the characters, which have got to be so much better and more worthwhile?

it is getting a bit boring now,can we have some emphasis on more objectivity, and accept that on both sides, mistakes have been made (am talking about the players), we seem to believe they are superhuman.they are not.i think the worst thing must be to lose and then to straight away have to go to the press room and go through every little detail.we all have off days,and that goes for tennis players.

vamos,i watched the youtube video you posted.you are right.it wasnt one of roger's best.and there are no excuses,but have seen other youtubes of other players who have either cried,said worse,or have been just as bad/not as good, so it really is a failed argument on all counts.no one is going to win.you can only learn from your past losses and move on.otherwise just give up,never play tennis again,and go open a restaurant in france,and eat until you get fat.

@maxi, i even apologized to you before for wiritng such stuff but it was all provoked BIG TIME, so sorry again, you will never see me doin any such thing with any other roger fan ! i try to be as objective as a i can but when some1 deliberately demeans rafa continually its veyr hard to resist. yes you are right when you say a true champion is the one who bounces back from periods of utter darkness and pitfalls, cheers :)

vamos,you are a true champino! when anyone comes back from losses and goes on to get better and better,that is the best thing to happen.that is what strength is all about.

I'd like to add another thought to this thread. Perhaps the meaning of the word sportsmanship has been lost in translation given the international diversity of players. Maybe some of them thought they were voting for the sportsman (ie. tennis player) of the year??

very possible cable.

I wonder whether going to Ethiopia has caused chest infection for roger? so disappointed he is not playing. he would have had to have a lot of jabs,yellow fever,rabies,typhoid before going there. at least if he in dubai, he can get some sun and try get over. chest infections are viscious.

duro, am so disappointed.

i just want carrie and homos to nominate thier "sportman" of the year

it is about waiting your oponent at the net waiting for him after you beat him so you walk together even when you have an interview to give, respecting the oponent dont ask for medical time out before the end of a set dont retire when the oponent is wining and doing it as Roger Federer is even more important when he is the number 1 in the world he is not "un emotional " as the writer talking about Edberg he is so passionate about this game he cries when he wins so he DAMN CARES which makes being objective even harder for him than average player.
it is not about "vamosing after each point" kicking the knee (when it was healthy enough) after each point staring after oponent wins a point or taring a Tshirt.
Navrailova was asked about the mis behaving on the court as longer bouncing on the ball waiting at the net towel after each point she said that these things should be controlled.
he has so many awards that i dont think needed this one but last year was so amazing so perfect that couldnt ended without this one too!
just like a toping over the best cake you ever tasted!
way to go Roger even after all of what you done you still manage to drive them crazy

NO?

Who do you think I would nominate for sportsman of the year, I give you one guess.

By the way, how do you know what the award is about, did you get a list from the ATP? As far as I know they have never said publicly what qualities to look for, so don't come here listing things as if they are authentic. They are your reasons, and no one else has to accept them.

This is what really counts:

ITWA Ambassador
3 Sep 2009 | by miri

Ambassador

Rafa and Ana have been voted ?Ambassadors of the Year? by the International Tennis Writers Association.

Rafael Nadal of Spain and Ana Ivanovic of Serbia have been voted Ambassadors of the Year for the 2008 tennis season by the ITWA membership, an honor designed to recognize consistent openness and cooperation with the world media. The two players will receive solid-silver hallmarked letter openers, engraved with their name and ?ITWA Ambassador 2008.?

ITWA past president Neil Harman said: ?We understand that the players can?t grant every interview request, but Ana and Rafa have been exemplary in their professional dealings with the media. Rafa is always scrupulously polite, while Ana always seems to have a smile on her face, even when talking to the media after a defeat. They are great role models for their fellow players, and we hope their engraved letter-openers can find a small but proud place in their trophy cabinets.?

i SEE........................................ oh my sweet carrie: that is why you are son angry:
the only he would won this
by you and homos try to hit the ATP circiut and vote for him!
try to nominate him as "Dancer of the year"

no intentions of trigerring another prolonged ,fiery argument. but this post from carrie does go onto show us that when the ITF themselves chose the ambassador the chose rafa as the 'role mode' as there is not even one incident where rafa has shown bad piece of sportsmanship, so may b another indication of the votes being based on the popularity contest ??! :S

Oh god these rafa fans are driving me insane!

Let us get some obvious facts straight:

1) The award is voted on by players

2) sportsmanship is best judged by the opponent since it is directed against him and not by

bloggers/fans/officials. this si because on court behaviour affects the other player and hence those players

have the right to decide who is the best sportsperson

3) even though all players might not get a chance to see federer, they also follow tennis as much as any fan on

this blog and has the same criteria for judging him away from their own opposite end of the court and hence is

better qualified to judge him. (By having played, practiced, travelled with him plus following and being as much

and a greater fan of The Tennis Sport than any Blogger, fan or official)

4) Rafa even though a very nice guy off court , is universally known to get on everybody's nerves by his

'techniques' of time wasting and needless aggression (at times). Most commentators, even some players in

interviews have talked about how rafa gets on their nerves.

5) hence no matter how mach they might admire his achievements, the chances of the same players who carry

that resentment from the court considering him for a sportsmanship award is negligible.


Now some conjectures (not facts) -

1) nadal is probably the one player who irritates others most on court.. i mean they probably just cant help

coming off the court feeling he cheated them with all that fake aggro to win.

2) the above point was probably stupid. i quite admire his aggro.. it is just that whenever i play, i hate it when an

opponent overdoes it.

3) someone commented that apart from the top four, everyone likes to fawn before federer, knowing nadal, i am

pretty sure his vote went to federer. after this Aus Open and nadal's unfair retirement ( he himself said it was

because he didnt want to take a risk) Murray's vote was definitely not for nadal and probably for fed after that

final ceremony. Djoker probably never votes for anyone but himself. Delpo MUST have voted for fed after that

geat favour he got in the US open final. roddick 100% for fed. then what??



Conclusion - rafa will probably never win such an award. federer will continue to do so in all probability (ya,

dont jump on me now quoting examples. a multiple-grand slam champ has to win some award otr the other.

makes the sport look bad others. for everyone cribbing about how everything is rigged for Fed, here is food for

thought- more possibility is there that a few awrds had to be rigged for rafa, even tournaments, becuase officials

know that the rivalry was really good to bring crowds in)





now, questions -

1) @cherryl, after reading my first two points, pls tell me how a 'sportsmanship' award should be awarded and

who is best qualified to vote for it?
2) was Rafa even nominated for this???


@carrie

- you obviously have the hots for nadal -- the so called 'electricity' you feel is just that, nothing to do with

tennis, so get over it. Rafa has better things to look forward to than a middleaged house wife (my impression of

you) . Of course, the way he is going he might need a walking stick before you do.

- rafa has moved on from tennis to areas whee he can use his physique and rugged spanish looks to better

effect. maybe it is time you stopped watching tennis because obviously it is not good tennis but guys like nadal

that excite you.

@maxi

- i am a big admirer of you for being such a huge federer fan as to continually defend him day after day on this

forum and that too without loosing your cool or poise. a worthy fan of fedex i must say. cheers to you.



__ One important thing I believe in is that the rafa brand of tennis is quite boring. in fact people were only

interested in him originally for being so young. later interest waned cos of his consistency (only) on clay and

cos of his boring game. it was the rivalry with federer that really brought in the mass crowd appeal. Even french

open was suffering due to low level players reaching finals and winning and then only one player consistantly

winning ( pre-rafa and rafa periods) untill federer decided to mount serious challenge year after year. fresh life

was thus injected into clay not by rafa but because federer decided to go out of his comfort zone to challenge

the ultimate clay court specialist.

Roger's ambition made Rafa. he would never have won a wimbledon or a aud open if not for the confidence

gained form defeating a great champ multiple times in GS finals. nothing can inspire aplayer more. Rafa owes

everything to roger and hence his consoling arm and his kind words and admiration and probably his vote evey

year for the best sportsman! :) Cheers all! PEACE.

Oh god these rafa fans are driving me insane!

Let us get some obvious facts straight:

1) The award is voted on by players

2) sportsmanship is best judged by the opponent since it is directed against him and not by

bloggers/fans/officials. this si because on court behaviour affects the other player and hence those players

have the right to decide who is the best sportsperson

3) even though all players might not get a chance to see federer, they also follow tennis as much as any fan on

this blog and has the same criteria for judging him away from their own opposite end of the court and hence is

better qualified to judge him. (By having played, practiced, travelled with him plus following and being as much

and a greater fan of The Tennis Sport than any Blogger, fan or official)

4) Rafa even though a very nice guy off court , is universally known to get on everybody's nerves by his

'techniques' of time wasting and needless aggression (at times). Most commentators, even some players in

interviews have talked about how rafa gets on their nerves.

5) hence no matter how mach they might admire his achievements, the chances of the same players who carry

that resentment from the court considering him for a sportsmanship award is negligible.


Now some conjectures (not facts) -

1) nadal is probably the one player who irritates others most on court.. i mean they probably just cant help

coming off the court feeling he cheated them with all that fake aggro to win.

2) the above point was probably stupid. i quite admire his aggro.. it is just that whenever i play, i hate it when an

opponent overdoes it.

3) someone commented that apart from the top four, everyone likes to fawn before federer, knowing nadal, i am

pretty sure his vote went to federer. after this Aus Open and nadal's unfair retirement ( he himself said it was

because he didnt want to take a risk) Murray's vote was definitely not for nadal and probably for fed after that

final ceremony. Djoker probably never votes for anyone but himself. Delpo MUST have voted for fed after that

geat favour he got in the US open final. roddick 100% for fed. then what??



Conclusion - rafa will probably never win such an award. federer will continue to do so in all probability (ya,

dont jump on me now quoting examples. a multiple-grand slam champ has to win some award otr the other.

makes the sport look bad others. for everyone cribbing about how everything is rigged for Fed, here is food for

thought- more possibility is there that a few awrds had to be rigged for rafa, even tournaments, becuase officials

know that the rivalry was really good to bring crowds in)





now, questions -

1) @cherryl, after reading my first two points, pls tell me how a 'sportsmanship' award should be awarded and

who is best qualified to vote for it?
2) was Rafa even nominated for this???


@carrie

- you obviously have the hots for nadal -- the so called 'electricity' you feel is just that, nothing to do with

tennis, so get over it. Rafa has better things to look forward to than a middleaged house wife (my impression of

you) . Of course, the way he is going he might need a walking stick before you do.

- rafa has moved on from tennis to areas whee he can use his physique and rugged spanish looks to better

effect. maybe it is time you stopped watching tennis because obviously it is not good tennis but guys like nadal

that excite you.

@maxi

- i am a big admirer of you for being such a huge federer fan as to continually defend him day after day on this

forum and that too without loosing your cool or poise. a worthy fan of fedex i must say. cheers to you.



__ One important thing I believe in is that the rafa brand of tennis is quite boring. in fact people were only

interested in him originally for being so young. later interest waned cos of his consistency (only) on clay and

cos of his boring game. it was the rivalry with federer that really brought in the mass crowd appeal. Even french

open was suffering due to low level players reaching finals and winning and then only one player consistantly

winning ( pre-rafa and rafa periods) untill federer decided to mount serious challenge year after year. fresh life

was thus injected into clay not by rafa but because federer decided to go out of his comfort zone to challenge

the ultimate clay court specialist.

Roger's ambition made Rafa. he would never have won a wimbledon or a aud open if not for the confidence

gained form defeating a great champ multiple times in GS finals. nothing can inspire aplayer more. Rafa owes

everything to roger and hence his consoling arm and his kind words and admiration and probably his vote evey

year for the best sportsman! :) Cheers all! PEACE!

sorry for the double post - I posted this on the other thread thinking it was the same - pasting it for the benefit of cherryl murray

@ Cherryl murray
The criteria for the award-

The player who, throughout the year, conducted himself at the highest
level of professionalism and integrity, who competed with his fellow
players with the utmost spirit of fairness and who promoted the game
through his off-court activities.

That should settle all dispute.

FEDisthe GOAT

Great post. And thanks for posting the criteria for the award. Certainly no one promotes more this sport than Roger. A great Embassador who makes everybody loves tennis. Roger promotes the sport and not himself. He is a tennis player, a true sports legend. Like Laver, Borg, Sampras, Roswell and others.

Fedisthe GOAT

Great post, thanks for showing the criteria for the award. Certainly he is the best Embassador for tennis, a man who promotes the sport he loves and makes people love tennis and want to start playing it. He is a true sports legend, he is in the league of Laver, Borg, Sampras, Roswell. Roger promotes tennis above everything, he never promotes himself.

fed nevers promotes himself? his statement at the us open about the crowd watching him...

"they are watching greatness" is one of the most arrogant self-promotions he made. i haven't the time or interest to post the rest...most honest tennis fans know full well.

Fedisthe GOAT

Good post! liked the way you went about explaining all that u had in mind. Like you I also believe that Fed is the GOAT.

However, there are some serious flaws in ur post

1) Andy Murray will never ever vote for Federer. its very well known that he doesnt get along well with him. on the contrary he Nadal is his fav player on tour. He even hugged Nadal after nadal retired in the QF

2) 2004-2006 tennis was a dying sport coz of Federer's dominance. It was only when one Rafa Nadal dared to challenge and beat Federer since 2006 that brought back the fans to the sport. Sorry it was not Federer but Rafa who brought life into a seemingly dull sport where one man would win every thing.

3) Nadal doesnt owe anything to Federer. He has earned all his GS titles by beating him in finals or SF. However, he has also paid a price for playing in Federer's era as have all other players like Djokovic, Murray etc. who would have been multiple slam winners by now had it not been for Federer. Fed cost Nadal 2 wimbledon titles especially 2007 when i believe he would have beaten anyone not named Federer. Same goes for all other players. Nadal owing all his titles to Federer sounds ridiculous to me.

the FED won! some are calling it a "popularity contest". Why is the FED so popular?! Is it only because he has won more slams than anyone else, (or for loads of other reasons...) What strikes me as obvious is the FED won because he is much more than just popular... It appears his fellow tennis players are looking at the whole aura of the man Roger Federer. They are basing their vote, on their own personal experience with the man (the FED). What is was like being with him on the tennis court, playing against him. That is what I believe is the crux of the decision making behind this award, and no other person can say it better than the player himself, and this time around (again), the majority of the players have told the tennis organization (by their vote), and thereby to the rest of us in the World: "This man "Roger Federer" is it! :)

FEDistheGOAT
great post two parts i loved so much your precpective about certain RAFA fan here because she is seriously needed so help
but the the best part " when you thought Djokovic cant vote but to himself"
so damn right . you nail it
dont let them get on your nerve they are totaly un objective (some have some common sense on rare cases) lets hope he can be bealthy again and we can have some good tennis to watch!

FEDistheGOAT
i found this somewhere about the reaction of the players after Rog wining the trophies (comic ofcourse)

Andy Roddick: ?I can?t believe that Rafa is starring in a Shakira video. This sucks?my wife has just been given the front cover of 'Sports Illustrated'?couldn?t Rafa let me gloat about that for a while in the locker room before he upped the ante??

(At this point Frankie?s News gently reminded Andy that we were supposed to be talking about the fabulousness of Roger Federer.)

?Well I guess he hasn?t won enough already. Not that I?m bitter. He?s a great guy, just feel he coulda at least given me one Wimbledon trophy.?

Rafael Nadal: ?Cause I'm a gypsy?are you coming with me?oh, sorry. Is in my head, no? But I am juss Shakira?s amigo, no? Well, Rog deserves dee awards very much, no? He is dee bess in history, no??

Novak Djokovic: ?Did I vote for him? No comment.?

Andy Murray: ?I can cry like Roger?I just wish I could win awards like him.?

Nickolay Davydenko: ?I don?t usually vote but this year I decided to give Roger mine as he finally let me beat him. Would have been better if he had let me win our match in Melbourne but I suppose you can't ask for everything. Personally, I wouldn't want to be the fan favourite. I like my anonymity. Shakira asked me to star in her video before she phoned Rafa, but I told her that I am not Britney Spears. I cannot be in a music video.?

Pete Sampras: "Yeah, that?s great for him. I still reckon Rod Laver is the greatest though.?

The true colors come out now, don't they? So now you want to tell the players how they should vote? You are not at every tournament, in the locker room, on the court with Roger, Cheryl. If you want to put the USO blip (yes, blip) in there, that is perfectly ok. Most pros nowdays do MUCH worse, and you know it. Tsk, tsk!

FEDistheGOAT on your 2/21/10 11:25 PM entry

Thanks! That was really a fun read! :)

wow, there is some serious mental illness on this board; nothing else can explain the completely deluded, paranoid remarks about Rafa and Roger above ; oh wait why blame mental illness , these remarks show how low people can sink when they lose rational perspective... that goes for both Roger and Rafa fans.

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.

@ tennislover
, 2/22/10 1:25 PM

Wow! Thanks for that :) had me in splits all the way. Especially Davy's comments.. quite in character wouldn't you say??

@atul1985
, 2/22/10 5:10 AM

pls check my posts in the thread - http://www.tennistalk.com/en/news/20100217/Federer_named_2009_player_o f_the_year - 2/21/10 11:06 PM

for my opinion on how it was the fed who changed rafa's monotonous clay court career and got the world interested in this young 'i'll fetch it' muscle-kid.
And, tennis 'revived' as you say not because of any great thing in rafa inherently monotonous game but because the world loves it when any champion faces a challenge.

FedistheGOAT,

Thanks so much! You helped make my point perfectly! You are the embodiment of the very worst excesses among SOME truly wretched Fed fans. I don't wish to paint all Fed fans with the same brush, because there are a few here who are genuinely fair and respectful in their posts.

To have the temerity and gall to even pretend that Rafa owes Fed or anyone else for that matter, anything at all for his great victories in grand slams, is just more of the same old propaganda. You are one of those will just don't get it. Again, I will say this to you - the more you trash Rafa, the more you insult Fed. Until you accept the basic, intrinsic truth in that statement, you will just make yourself look more absurd every single time you insult Rafa. Accept Rafa's great wins over Fed with some grace and poise. You can't change facts, just accept them, hard as it may be for you to deal with reality.

Any Rafa fan who dares to challenge your arrogant assumptions, will then be accused of being mentally ill. Why don't you reread some of your grandiose posts and then take a look at yourself. You are cluttering up as many threads as possible with your insufferable ramblings. I made the argument in my previous post. If you can't make a reasonable, rational argument based on fact and not your personal opinion, then what you say is not worth anything.

@Nativenewyorker

I think it is plain who is 'basing everything on personal opinion'. And if you read my posts carefully, you will not find any insults to rafa and that i freely admit RAFA IS A GREAT Player.
My argument of how fed made rafa the player he is is a lead up from some other arguments in this thread.
I do not understand why that is an insult to Nadal.
Federer himself is today at abetter player because of the challenges of the young brigade like murray. Fed himself told so much in his post AO speech. In a similiar vein i was constructing why it was due to fed that rafa developed into a better all court player.

Please do not launch personal insults without understanding what is said. And in my opinion it is only the rafa fans who clamour to clutter up threads based on federer. You wont find me glorifying fed in any threads about the achievements of nadal but then you cant find such threads anymore can you?

FEDistheGOAT,

you say Nadal owes all his titles to Fed - that is an insult to Rafa. He has earned all his titles thru his own hard work. Its like saying Fed owes his French Open title to Rafa. That sounds absurd doesnt it? Rafa is a better player today coz of Fed and so is Fed better coz of Rafa! You can say this, but saying that Rafa owes his titles to Fed coz of this reason is ABSURD and RIDICULOUS

You say French Open was suffering due to low audience turnout during pre-Rafa and rafa period. Agree! BUT the same can be said of all the slams which federer was winning hands down (wimbly, AO and USO). Again it was Rafa who came out of his comfort zone to challenge the ultimate hard & grass courter that revived the game. Any person dominating any sport ultimately kills viewer interest. This is where Rafa stepped in to save tennis which was reeling under the domination of one person.

And Rafa's game is inherently good as is Federer's. Both would have had hugh fan base even if they played in different eras. So dont brand Rafa's game as monotonous as it is not. The intensity and passion he brings to the sport is unmatched. This attitude alone pulls hugh crowds to watch his matches.

FEDisthe GOAT,

I realize the futility of engaging in any kind of rational, enlightened discussion with you, however I feel compelled to point out how bizarre your initial comment really sounds about Rafa owing his success and wins to Fed. Do you really want to make the argument that Fed wanted Rafa to beat him all those times? Do you really think he enjoyed those losses? If so, then you don't know your own player. Fed never, ever gives away any grand slam for any reason. The absurd suggestion that he helped Rafa become good enough to win both RG and Wimbledon back to back in 2008, becoming the first man to do so since the great Borg, and in the process securing the number one ranking, is an indication of your rather skewed thought process. Do you remember the look on Fed's face when he lost that marathon match at the 2008 Wimbledon? He looked like a pretty unhappy person to me. What about the 2009 AO? Do you think Fed wanted Rafa to beat him on all three surfaces in three straight grand slams? Those losses were quite painful to a man who has become accustomed to winning almost everything in sight.

But this is a waste of energy and time. Now you are trying to back away from them, saying that you didn't insult Rafa. It's not just about name calling. If you state that Rafa is the great player he is because of Fed, then you are taking away what is rightfully his. You are stripping him of his own identity as a truly great player, the only man to have won so many grand slams against Fed. Give him the respect he deserves for those memorable wins. He deserves no less. In return, I give Fed full credit for all of his great wins, the records he has achieved.

What Rafa has achieved cannot be taken away by the likes of you. There WILL be threads devoted to even greater achievements, but Rafa is a winner on and off the court. It takes a certain type of courage and guts to persevere in the face of adversity. Anyone can be gracious and generous when winning, but when you are trying to come back after injury, then you really see the calibre of a man. Rafa has shown us who he is, in victory and defeat. He is always a champion. Nothing you or any Fed fan says will in any way change that.

In Federer's own words, said in tears: "God this is killing me" after Rafa beat him at the AO in 2009. These are not the words of a man who let's Rafa beat him.

carrie - it was actually "God its killing me" if you want to be exact, which you should be if you are quoting.

and also this in a "blog" not an article. I've never heard of a "bad" blog. If you think this is "bad" that just probably means you disagree with it, in which case you should provide counter-points.

Ricky, correction taken, but my point is still the same.

Your second point doesn't refer to me does it, because I have not complained about the blog at all.

carrie - my bad, i should have said "everyone -" prior to the second statement

because no, it does not refer to you

I am fed up with reading the same ridiculous,childish posts from EVERYONE! EVERYONE! GROW UP! GROW! GROW UP! Ricky, I am fed up. who cares if federer cried. If any of you were real tennis fans, you should grow up. who cares if federer cried?who cares? federer is human. stop bringing up federer cried.what a momentous occasion for any human to be in,MOMENTOUS.MOMENTOUS.crazy moment for fed. carrie accept criticism from a decent intelligent man,dont come back at me with words. respect to every poster.make this a forum that EVERYONE can visit and share ideas,stop the rubbish EVERYONE.Lets have proper conversation.match talk,wishing players well,hoping for excellent returns,acceptance of mistakes,learning,growing. what is wrong with all of you who want to talk continuing crap.

let me be the first to say:

WHAT?

ricky,i'm having a moan because carrie brings up roger crying all the time.and it's getting repetitive and boring.it's crap.

maxi, I'm speechless! You have a onesided view of what goes on on this site, why don't you freak out on the Fedfans who continuously put Rafa down, that statement I made about Roger crying was in response to FistheG saying that Rafa only beats Federer because Federer lets him, and that Rafa owes his success to Roger.

It's ridiculous to jump in and have a go at people on one post without reading the lead up to it. Do me a favour, maxi, if you don't like what I say don't read it, whenever you see my name at the end of a post ignore it, because I am getting to the end of my tether with your constant criticsm of what I have to say. I have just as much right to say what I want as you have, and you DO NOT HAVE A MORAL HIGH GROUND TO STAND ON, more than the rest of us.

well yes carrie. i feel i do.you freak out yourself.knock yourself out carrie.i dont get into fights you have because they become more meaningless by the minute.you speechless?that's a first.i am always respectful to you. always. i read a lot of your posts,and i say nothing because i dont want to get involved in your silly conversations with people.silly.silly.silly.i havent criticised you before,you bore me. whatever carrie.whatever.new song. bla bla bla.i read a lovely link today where ROGER FEDERER referrs to HIM and RAFA. how "special". you degrade their relationship.i am fed up with that.i am having a moan carrie but its been a long time coming.fed up.bored with you.bored.bored.bored.bla.bla.bla.

whatever carrie.

link to federer live link (second photo).please watch the live video because roger says differently to what is reported. written report doesnt refer to rafa,what roger says in the live vid. he refers to rafa.

boring carrie.

stu:

*yawn* for carrie. (sorry carrie, but you is boring).

here is the link everyone. sorry. tonight. feel tired to respond properly.

Well, all I know is that this prize is voted by fellow players. Consequently, there must be sth in the locker room that WE don't know, I mean for example manners we don't see between him and fellow players.

@bolbol
In my opinion, whatever i have seen of tennis validates the vote but for those who are not convinced by it, of course you made the point perfectly. After all the entire ATP cant be idiots right?

@maxi, calm down when people love the sport, they might get emotional and when you really care for a player, you might get quite irrational too. i remember a time when i stopped playing tennis for three months just because fed lost against safin in that AO semi.. as for fans like carrie, no matter how much they get on some people's nerves, it takes all kinds of people to add spice to a sport.

@carrie, i didnt say fed ever let rafa beat him! how outrageous! What i was saying was that rafa managed to beat fed outside of clay because of the confidence gained by beating him on clay, come on 3 times to beat the best player on clay should give anybody enough confidence and drive to improve yourself on other surfaces. I fed had gone the sampras way and left the FO alone, rafa might never have been a threat on other surfaces. that is my only humble opinion, you are entitled to yours.


@Ricky, LOL :)

maxi, I hope this is the last time you are addressing me personally, because none of my posts is directed at you. You seem to be on tenter hooks all the time waiting to fly off the handle, well do that whenever you like, but leave me out, because I get the impression that if someone says hello to you you might find that a reason for having a go at them, I've seen it happen here with you.

You have threatened many times to stay on tennis-x, why don't you do that if this site gets you down.

@maxi
Hello! :)

(please excuse me, couldn't resist)

FEDistheGOAT , 2/23/10 10:10 PM

Did you think of that on your own?

maxi , 2/23/10 9:14 PM

thanks for the above link maxi! mwah! :)

All I know is that without Roger ( undisputed winner of the Stefan Edberg Award), the tournament in Dubai is as dull as can be. The players are either tired, hurt or disinterested and they are playing terrible!!!

All I know is that without Roger ( undisputed winner of the Stefan Edberg Award), the tournament in Dubai is as dull as can be. The players are either tired, hurt or disinterested and they are playing terrible!!!

carrie, posted links to support the fact that federer is so respectful of rafa.and includes him in conversations. i get/got annoyed yesterday because i read so many posts from different threads that i hadnt commented on before, and i saw a lot of yours were disrespectful(imo) of federer, and i dont understand why.i found some of them unedifying, which is why (plus training at work - not your problem, i know), got me into a phase. so what i would do is respectfully ask you to do what you said earlier on this year, I think in January, when you said "you had turned a corner" and were prepared to see things differently, (or something along those lines). so peace.

sheesh.

Roger Federer deserves every award given.

but it is pointless to play into carries sarcasm, maxi. i applaud your efforts tho.

take it easy guys, tennis is rolling once more and we have other things to talk about,indian wells is nearing too. btw any INDIAN TT USER here???? if yes then many congratulations on what sachin tendulkar did today! scoring 200 in a ODI is INSANE! this world record will stay for lonnng :)

@vamosrafa, just saw the news on that stupendous achievement. these sporting icons (federer, sachin etc) are on a class of their own aren't they? Was watching the interview on BBC and was struck with the calm confidence and great passion. couldn't help but think of federer in a post match interview or a ... who else is there in today's cut throat world of sports? :( saddens me

FedistheGOAT, yes dude , when u think of INSANE, OUT OF THIS WORLD achievements over that last 10-15 years , there are a handful of names that come to your mind, federer, sachin ,woods, may b schumacher aswell and lance too ...and there are many greats....but these names stand out.... sachin and federer are relentless machines, i remember people wrote-off both of them roughly at the same time, i.e 2008. but now such a decision only deserves ridicule. I am a pakistani , and saeed anwar had the record of 194 and that record had stood intact for almost a decade but today sachin broke it, i kind of feel happy for him becoz he deserved it 200% ! so even tho he broke a record set by my counryman , i saulte this genius.

This is a little bit off topic.
I recently watched the match between Doha final between Davy and Nadal. Nadal played excellent for the first two sets. In the tie breaker one of the commentators said if Nadal had to win the match he had to do it in two sets otherwise Davy would win it. I never heard such a comment before. Usually it is reverse, Nadal would have more chances to win matches if they go long, long..... Nadal really looked like he spent all his energy and could not goto three sets. This raises lot of doubts to me, may be another meth Agassi like thing will come out after 20 or so years to sell a book or something else.

vamosrafa: Thanks for the information on Sachin crossing saeed anwar's record of 194. I had no idea as I have not been watching cricket recently. I believe Sachin is the second greatest cricket player after Don Bradman and I love his game, character and sportsman ship, similar to Fed. Btw I am from India.

and I think even Saeed Anwar would be happy that his record was broken by Sachin and not somebody else.

vamosrafa: yes, its great that sachin broke the record. its just another achievement in his illustrious career. I think that he will be remembered as an all time great(jst like federer and nadal for tennis) btw from sri lanka

good to hear from my asian fellows :) . yep,i dont think if there is some1 else who deserved it more than sachin, the little master is a magician with the bat in his hand.

Oh man, can we get this thread back on point, which is for Fed Heds to bash Rafans and Rafans to bash Fed Heds?

Just kidding. I'm an American baseball fan, so although I know little about cricket -- have only seen it played a handful of times -- I appreciate hearing those who are fans talking about one of the true greats of the game.

@vmm

I think it is really harsh to accuse rafa to have been doing drugs to achieve what he has.

The fact is that he peaked too early and exerted his body too much. He might still make it back with a major overhaul of his game and maybe even mount a challenge to players inside the top ten which he is not capable of right now.

And my belief is that agassi has somehoe turned bitter towards tennis and hates his own achievements. Hence the attempt to degrade himself in his book. At least that is the sense i got after i read his book, which i read dejectedly, desperately trying make myself believe that andre remains a great.

And i say this again, Please no accusations of rafa doing drugs, if you have ever seen him play, it is pure 110% aplication on court and no performance enhancers!

Fed is the GOAT... I love that nickname... :)

maxi the link is broken but i think i watyched it on YT...

Sweet Fed..

Federer is neither a man, nor a sportsman because of
1. Weeping like a hysterical woman when he lost AO-2009
2. Being arrogant enough to wear a "15" jacket right after the match was over
3. Taking toilet breaks when he is a set down (previously it was called gamesmanship rather than sportsmanship)
4. Trash-talking other players for years (called Djokovic "a joke" and "a rabbit", recommended him to "get out of tennis if he can't stand the heat"; said that Murray didn't develop when Murray beat him 2 times in a row; called Nadal onedimensional and accused him of illegal coaching while losing in RG-2005 semifinal; said that Canas should be banned forever having lost to him 2 times in a row, to name a few)
5. Praising himself every time he opens his mouth (I'm so talented, I'm so better than anybody else, My game is amazing, etc.)

As far as the award is concerned, nobody knows who shortlists players and how it is done, who votes and how the votes are distributed. Once I asked this questions to ATP, result - zero.

Federer is neither a man, nor a sportsman because of

1. Weeping like a hysterical woman when he lost AO-2009
2. Being arrogant enough to wear a "15" jacket right after the match was over
3. Taking toilet breaks when he is a set down (previously it was called gamesmanship rather than sportsmanship)
4. Trash-talking other players for years (called Djokovic "a joke" and "a rabbit", recommended him to "get out of tennis if he can't stand the heat"; said that Murray didn't develop when Murray beat him 2 times in a row; called Nadal onedimensional and accused him of illegal coaching while losing in RG-2005 semifinal; said that Canas should be banned forever having lost to him 2 times in a row, to name a few)
5. Praising himself every time he opens his mouth (I'm so talented, I'm so better than anybody else, My game is amazing, etc.)

lol..take it easy fellow but all you have stated are mere facts, btw do you have any links referring to 'roger calling djoker a 'joke' and 'rabbit'..etc" and that canas, i am nt so sure abt those things bt i agree he has been very harsh to djokovic at times and losing to canas was hard for him to swallow given his winning stature at that time. and that on-court coaching abuse was rome 2006 final, not RG semi, tho he was veryy frustrated losing that semi , screamed so often in that match but taht coaching thing was in rome

Sorry for multiple posts, but every time it was shown as "this page can not be displayed", and I thought nothing was posted. Can somebody, please, delete.

vamosrafa
I have some of the links. Part of them just dissapeared from internet, but I have the texts. Re illegal coaching, it was mentioned by Fed 3 times in 2006: Dubai, Rome and RG. In Rome he was so wildly outspoken that Nadal said in an interview: he should learn to behave like a gentleman even when he is losing (and I have this link).

ooo...i also knew a lot abt these incidents above but u seem to have more detail and evidence , if you can plz post some link or something, i like to have a collection of evidences .thnx

Here are some links (hopefully they are still working, if not let me know, I'll google the text and find the new links):
http://www.seattlepi.com/othersports/354352_ravi10.html
"Don 't be a brag nag ROger" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1248901/DES-KELLY-Ca ptain-Chav-John-Terry-England-s-Daddy-Fool.html
http://www.kurier.at/ sportundmotor/301788.php
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/others...52_ravi10.html
www.nytimes.c om/2008/07/07/sports/tennis/07tennis.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008 /11/09/sports/tennis/09tennis.html?_r=2

Also have a look at this site where Chetes collected Federer's most arrogant statements:
http://delicious.com/exterminate/p(r)issycakes

Oh! I miss Roger Federer. What would be the tour without this TENNIS LEGEND?

He loves the sport and this argument of him being arrogant is so old! Of course, many people are jealous of him, because he is a real tennis player. I understand that most Nadal fans are teens who believe will marry him so they make personal attacks to Roger. For them, Roger is a vilan, LOL. Grow up, people! I am a girl who plays and always loved this sport that´s why I admire how Fed changed tennis, bringing his charisma and talent to the game, when Pete and Andre retired. Nadal is a celebrity, not a naive boy.

If he were so humble he woudn´t have criticized WADA and doping policies. If all other athetes in all other sports make themselves available for tests at any time, why can´t he do the same? Privacy is no excuse, all other athletes have private lives too. Nadal is not better than anyone. Maybe that´s why he never deserved a sportsmanship award.

hen,
your post is a joke
hen , 2/26/10 2:00 PM

1) he's human, as is murray, as is novak.
2)roger didnt know 15 was on the jacket.i didnt go to wimbledon,but saw it on the screen.it was "presented" to him at end of the match IF he had won it. Nike confirmed in interview after match.
3)not against the rules,and if you got to go, then what's the problem? Tsonga did it in dubai 2 days ago against Llodra - no problem.
4)not trashtalking.that's ridiculous.every player says certain things about others,there is massive,healthy respect between federer,novak,rafa and for every article that you posted from non-fed fans,i can post (along with many fed fans am certain), of the great comments made by federer about the other players,but would be wasted on you.

Lulu,

I miss him too, but he will be back soon, so that will be a day for celebration.

Oh! I miss Roger Federer. What would be the tour without this TENNIS LEGEND?

Lulu , 2/26/10 8:08 PM

*******************
Far more exciting!

I liked Landy's post 2/20/10 at 3:43. I think it would have been so sweet to have given the award to Fabrice Santoro this year.

Great to hear that Roger is hoping to return at IW. We love you fed! The fedfans are waiting for your return.tennis misses you badly,but fedfans MORE! great to read that rafa is also doing well and said on his website will definitely be at IW.Great news rafa!

Carrie

I am so sorry that you have this opinion. Tennis is a great sport, you know, some years form now you will realize that. I believe today you think Grand Slams are a kind of High School Musical. Maybe Nadal may take part of this show next, I believe it suits him well, since he can´t play tennis anymore.

Just read your post on the other thread, carrie, you have children, so you are not a teen you are a 40 some woman, I guess. Ok, that´s the public who likes Nadal. But sometimes you talk as if you knew him, his gf and so on. I think you need treatment you know, iyou sound a little obsessive to me. Rafa Nadal doesn´t deserve nut fans.

Lulu, I was making exactly the point that we don't know Rafa so have no business judging his relationship with his gf, that's between the two of them. I am a fan of Rafa's as a tennis player, and it makes no difference to me whatever else he decides to do.

Lulu, you feel you have a right to be rude about Rafa but object to others being less than complimentary about Rager. I don't happen to miss Roger at any tournament, and I have a right to say so, it's just boring and tennis needs a new look.

Many people have said on message boards all over the internet that it was Rafa who got them interested again, because they were fed up of the lack of competition and lack lustre tennis.

I don't intend to have a slanging match with you about this, we will never convince each other to change our opinions, so let's leave at that. Fedfans think that people who don't like Roger don't like tennis, how arrogant is that.

Carrie

You are entitled to your opinion and the reason you like Rafa or tennis is up to you. But my impression is that you find tennis boring now and not competitive because Roger has been winning more than Rafa. if it were the other way round surely you would find very exciting. And I believe many people like tennis because of Nadal, but surely there are many people who like tennis because of Roger. But that´s fine, there is public for all players and for the sport.

yep lets hope the two best players return healthily and find their A games. I want more of this rivalry and when people say ITS OVER it drivies me nuts, its certainly NOT OVER ! get well sooon roger federer and get back on track soon rafael nadal :)

@Lulu
, 2/27/10 12:18 AM

kudos to you for your excellent sentiment.

The greatest players in the game come to watch him and goes on and on about what a joy it is to watch him play. Rafa himself is a self-confessed fan of roger and talks about his greatness at every opportunity. that is because he loves tennis and appreciates Good tennis when he sees it.

No one who enjoys tennis would be able to detest what fed brings to a court like carrie does. A tennis fan might be upset about how roger is dominating and making tournaments too predictable but no one who has ever held a racket and played can not be in awe of his genuis on court.

So my conclusion is that people like carrie are just rafa fans and not tennis fans. No, not because 'Fedfans think that people who don't like Roger don't like tennis' but because, people who cannot appreciate good tennis, dont like tennis.

FedistheGoat

Thanks, you got my point!

i agree with u guys , totally right but about carrie, i think its just that she loves and misses rafa so much that she is feeling so bad abt tennis, so a rafa revival will make things better surely :)

vamosrafa what hen has posted is only the tip of the iceberg. there are many more statements made by his highness which i will not care to post. they're all out there for people to see if they want to take their blinkers off. the only thing i don't agree is about roger's weeping. i don't believe he meant to do it but it take the moment from rafa and he was no where near as sensitive to roddick and murray after he beat them at wimb and ao. i do wonder how people can see past that and think of him as a great sportsman. it really makes you wonder what people are willing to ignore if they chose to glory worship a player and look at everything through rose-tinted glasses.

as for people going on about the toilet break being within the rules still don't bloody get the crux of the matter. no one has EVER accused him of BREAKING the rules. it's the gamesmanship of it that's the issue. it was so obvious how he took his time to walk back to the court and when the umpire called time, he SAT DOWN to change his t-shirt instead of taking his place on court. he even admitted he was in no hurry to get back but that of course is only a joke and we should laugh along with him like his fanatics. yes lots of players go to toilet but they don't all do it when they're LOSING and they don't all sit down after the umpire calls time. it's a matter of whether you want to admit the truth or not and maxi and others clearly don't want to. if rafa did that, they'd be all over him about it. perspective is an amazing thing.

Lulu,

I just had to laugh when I read your comment about Rafa fans being mostly teens. I haven't had such a good laugh in a while here. Thanks so much! However, I must admit that I am nowhere near being a teen. I am a middle-aged woman, but I did notice in one of your subsequent posts that you trashed carrie for being just another older female fan of Rafa. Can you get this straight in your own mind? Are we mindless, silly teens or foolishly romantic middle-aged women?

I find your comments towards female Rafa fans to be quite condescending. You don't know me or carrie, so quit speaking for us. I have been watching the sport of tennis all my life. I have seen all of the greats throughout the years. I consider myself to be a student of this sport that I love so very much. Just because I am a fan of Rafa does NOT mean that I know next to nothing about tennis! Just because I am not a person who hero worships Fed and thinks he walks on water, does not mean that I am ignorant when it comes to tennis.

Your comment to carrie that maybe she thinks grand slams are a high school musical, was typical of the mindset of an obsessive Fed fan. Anyone who dares to think that the sun doesn't rise and set on Fed, is then someone who doesn't understand tennis. That's what makes it so incredibly frustrating to have any kind of rational, reasonable discussion with someone like you. Who died and made you God? Who decided that you know who is knowledgeable about the sport of tennis and who isn't? Because you love Fed and think he is the be-all and end-all of tennis, then those of us who do not share your view, must be considered subhumans who can't think for ourselves! Your arrogance is beyond embarrassing.

It was Fed who made me stop watching tennis. I didn't connect with his game and, frankly, I felt that watching him have lopsided wins over everyone else without any real rivalry and competition, was just boring. If you knew anything at all about sport, tennis or otherwise, then you would know that great rivalries are what make sports great. It creates excitement and encourages more fans to engage in watching. Rivalry and competition is the very heart and soul of sports.

You have managed to reveal for all here to see, your rather narrow and slanted view of what makes the sport of tennis worth watching. Rafa is the one who brought me back to this sport that I love so much. For that and so much more that he has accomplished at a very young age, I will always be grateful to him.

NNY,
Nothing more to add, you've said it all.

NNY,

It was Fed who made me stop watching tennis. I didn't connect with his game and, frankly, I felt that watching him have lopsided wins over everyone else without any real rivalry and competition, was just boring.
Nativenewyorker , 2/27/10 6:26 AM

very sad post.lopsided wins?No NNY, it is because he was just TOO GOOD.It's difficult accepting genius on the tenniscourt. and really, to still be going on about the tears IS what is boring.take a break NNY.

so any great comments out there about federer:

In those crucial matches, particularly against Davydenko and Murray, Federer didn?t rely on his game alone to win. His performance there revalidated that the best sportsmen take their game beyond the realm of pure physical skill.

They engage their opponents in areas unfamiliar to them. While the adversary is expecting a face off only in the physical arena, champions take the fight into the mental dimension.

c'moon fed!

The greatest players in the game come to watch him and goes on and on about what a joy it is to watch him play. Rafa himself is a self-confessed fan of roger and talks about his greatness at every opportunity. that is because he loves tennis and appreciates Good tennis when he sees it.

FEDistheGOAT , 2/27/10 1:26 AM

So Rafa does not appreciate his own tennis, he only appreciates Roger's. This just explains why some people are fans of Rogers, it's because they all have the same arrogant mindset. Rafa is not narcissistic like some who praise their own game, he knows he's good, and he knows he can regularly beat the man with the most titles in this era, that's what speaks for him. It doesn't matter about all the platitudes about Roger's game, when they go on court, it's Rafa's tennis racquet that usually talks the louder.

These Greats want the game to stay exactly where it was when they were playing, and that is what Roger gives them. The next thing, they'll be wanting players to play in long skirts and long trousers and cardigans - cardigans? When was that seen on a tennis court recently.

These Greats, go on and on about who is good on hard courts and who is not, how do they know, they hardly ever played on hard courts, in their day, tennis was mostly played on grass and clay. If Roger was the best clay-court player of this era, then they would have said clay was the be all and end all of tennis.

We shouldn't be worrying about what the Greats think, they are the past, the game has to move on.

Actually the subject of this discussion wasn't the greatness of Federer's tennis. I don't like it because to me it looks like a manual. But people differ, some of them like reading novels, the other - phone directories. This is immaterial.

The key word was "Sportsmanship". The only thing fedfans are capable of saying is that Fed won a lot of tournaments and his tennis is great which has nothing to do with sportsmanship. If condescending Lulu and her aggressive Co. are not familiar with this word, here is a link for you where the first paragraph says it all:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsmanship

well a good thing about hen is that he backs up his points with some evidence , thats good and thats the way arguments shud be conducted mostly. I also do it often and try to do it as much as i can .

why all the aggression hen? did you not lay any eggs this morning? :)

please dont be so disrespectful to federer.it's ridiculous and silly.roger is the greatest sportsman out there.fine you dont like him.your opinion.

"Rafa is not narcissistic like some who praise their own game, he knows he's good, and he knows he can regularly beat the man with the most titles in this era, that's what speaks for him. It doesn't matter about all the platitudes about Roger's game, when they go on court, it's Rafa's tennis racquet that usually talks the louder".

not recently am sad to say.

Regularly beat? be fair. when was the last time? is that regularly?

Rafa praises his own game,I recall him saying a month or so ago "he wants to win ALL tournaments, that he can play his "best tennis"". what would you call that?

Of course he wants to win ,else why play? seriously?

have you seen rafa in the video with shakira? that's not narcissitic? and dont say he was just helping out a friend?ummmm - knowing what the response would be.
take off rose coloured glasses rafafans and start understanding that all players are out there to win,to praise their game,to praise others game. It's called sportsmanship.

short memories.

hen,

federer's presser about the crying incident:

(a bit old news now,dont you believe?).In a press conference this week at the Masters Series Indian Wells, Federer explained his outpouring of emotion.(at AO 2009).

"It's not just right out embarrassing, because I don't mind it happening," said the 13-time Grand Slam champion. "What I don't like is that people think they know why it happened. It's very simple; you go out five hours and try everything you can and you spend three weeks in one city. You love tennis, and you get emotional because the fans are into it and you feel like you're so close, and all of a sudden you realize yet you're so far again. So this is what brought out the tears, I guess.

"Then seeing again the old scenario of Rod Laver there; just Australian fans are so respectful and so knowledgeable of the game, that kind of created that kind of emotion. It had nothing to do with, 'Oh, my god, I'm never going to win this tournament again. Oh, god I'm so disappointed. I can't believe it.' It was just something I couldn't control. So it was nice to get it out.

"Instead of getting it out maybe in the locker room it happened in the center court maybe in front of anybody. That's the tough part for me to handle. But I could handle it, and I still believe it shows that there is a human side to any player, you know, because we care about this game and try hard.

"It was not the first time I cried," Federer concluded, to the laughter of the press.

maxi, are you saying Nadal is narcissistic by doing the music video because he wanted to show how cute he was?

Rafa and Roger only played twice last year, they won one each, but Rafa has regularly beaten Roger, sadly he's not been playing at full throttle due to injury, but the h2h stands.


Let?s look the claim to Federer?s sportsmanship, you will see that the evidence is to the contrary:


Federer does not exhibit sportsmanship because by definition,

A competitor who exhibits poor sportsmanship after losing a game or contest is often called a "sore loser" (those who show poor sportsmanship after winning are typically called "bad winners"). Behavior includes blaming others, not taking responsibility for personal actions, reacting immaturely or improperly, making excuses for their loss, referring to unfavorable conditions or other petty issues.



Here is the evidence:

He blamed poor lighting for his loss to Nadal at Wimbledon in 2008.

After Murray beat him in the 1st round in Dubai -

'He lost again, got some flack for appearing to be less than gracious in defeat,........
But, as has happened in the past when he's been in tight situations or lost altogether, Federer showed his petulant side. He commented that the 20-year-old would have a tough time reaching the next level if he stayed defensive, which didn't go down well with the British media. (Remember, Federer offered up an excuse when he lost to Rafael Nadal in the French Open semifinals in 2005, saying he couldn't see the ball as darkness fell, farcically asked the chair umpire to turn off Hawk-Eye during last year's Wimbledon final, and accused Nadal's coach, uncle Toni Nadal, of illegal coaching two years ago.)

ROGER FEDERER is undoubtedly a supreme tennis player, one of the best in the history of the sport. I just wish he wouldn't feel compelled to tell us. 'I'm definitely a very talented player,' he said after the Australian Open. 'I always knew I had something special.'



http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=200808270 40918AAd4VEB
Federer becoming increasing arrogant?
since nadal has beaten federer on a consistant basis this year, fed has been getting making light of nadal's achievements! i just heard fed's interview and he said number 1 and number 2 are the same and he still is the best in the world! this is a different story when he was still number 1 but nadal was beating him at the french and wimbledon where he was saying 'im still number 1'! he is clearly rattled by nadal! after he lost the french he said he still is wimbledon champ and its his time of the season during and after wimbledon!

If you need any more evidence, just let me know, I will oblige.

you can be a great tennis player yet still be a poor sportsman. and vice versa.

try to figure out the difference!! winning 16 slams does not automatically make someone a great sportsperson. it's nothing to do with disrespect. you have to earn respect. trophies don't automatically command respect.

i wont say federer is a bad sportsman, thats almost laughable , he is a good sportsman but not that good to deserve so many awards on this, given these incidents u just feel curious .and rafa's music video has nothing to do with all this , thats something off the court in his free time

Carrie

Your posts are a joke! You say greats from the past don´t matter!!!!!!!!!!!!Game moved On....................LOL you really don´t know anything about tennis. Probably you consider Laver as old silly man . Well, maybe if he takes part of video you will like him better. Like Laver dancing salsa or something.

NNy, well I won´t answer you...really...

Carrie and NNY I am so glad you are not fans of Federer! But I start feeling sorry for Nadal

Well, Carrie and NNY

You make me laugh. Carrie saying Greats of the past don´t matter, game moved on... LOL..........You really don´t respect this sport. maybe you would appreciate Laver if he had made a video dancing salsa or something.


Whatever, I am glad you are not fans of Federer.

Next time ask Rafa to agree with WADA laws. this is sportsmanship.

Carrie and Native

you make me laugh. Saying the greats of the past have no importance, his opinions are worthless....LOL maybe if laver made a video dancing salsa you would like him

Thanks you are not Federer fans.

By the way say Nadal to open his doors to WADA laws. This is called sportsmanship.

@carrie

"maxi, are you saying Nadal is narcissistic by doing the music video because he wanted to show how cute he was?"

OMG. This is insane. as lulu said, i am glad that you are just a rafa fan and not a tennis fan, would have been an embarrassment.

@NNY, quit the schoolmaster attitude, if you can't stand excellence, that is not anybody's problem.

yes Fed has his moments of bad sportmanship and 'bad loser'

But his kind gestures towards players in the end outweight the bad gestures.

For example, how is a 'bad loser' invite the man who has beaten him in a lot of would be record-breaking finals for a charity event (Rafa in the Hit for Haiti)

If he have bad feelings for Rafa, he would have just invited anyone else like Borg, Mcenroe.

I saw an interview of Rafa and he when asked who he wants as a doubles partner, Rafa says it will be Federer.

So even Rafa thinks Fed is a nice person even after those allegedly unsporting interviews which the came in the heat of the moment and could have been exaggerated by the media.

So I think Roger deserves this coz he's the one making the most sporting gestures.

yes torres.

carrie.i really dont want to disagree with you about this. you are entitled to your opinion but you are so rude with it. that is my point. have an opinion, but at least try and be objective about it. you are not.you are just rude.

"If you need any more evidence, just let me know, I will oblige".

carrie , 2/27/10 2:45 PM

My goodness, i think rafa is a fantastic guy.but do you know, I was really surprised recently when the last two matches he lost to davydenko and soderling, he could barely shake hands at the end of the match, didnt sign any autographs, just clipped davy's hand at the doha final, and was gone. i watched it on youtube again. (very un nadal like - bad sportsmanship? Yes.). Same again with soderling at the WTF - could hardly shake his hand, once again, off the court - those screaming waiting fans, children even, wanting to see their hero, where was nadal? in the dug out. gone. couldnt bear to sign any. bad sportsmanship from rafa. he was gone. So please do not say you will oblige me. I dont need you to oblige me (but do want to pay my respects to you for wanting to help me). I have been following federer's game for a few years now and he is a brilliant sportsman, nothing you say will make me think otherwise.

the very point that torres makes about rafa wanting to partner roger, knowing how much him and uncle toni have said about roger, being the best, (player, and otherwise), is all i need to hear as a fan. I'm aware he isnt perfect, but then who is? I dont really need to try to work out where you are coming from as i know you just cannot separate tennis from roger. you very rarely say anything nice. at all in fact. and that is one thing i cant respect. because no one is "all bad" all the time.

we try to teach our children the rights and wrongs of behaviour and how we should interact with each other and we dont always get it right as human beings, but we try.and i dont think you give enough credit to anyone. no one is perfect. we put our wonderful players high above us, in the sky, but it is not a good thing to do this. it is about understanding the flaws of a player.making allowances when players give so much time, for us, the fans to enjoy our lives by watching them.

I have grown (surprising for me), more aware of Murray's game. He is young, he is trying to be the best. at the end of his match with Tipsy, he smashed his racquet,very unsportsmanlike but, I understand his disappointment and passion,someone like you would remember that forever and continue to hold that against andy murray.novak did the same recently. you would hold that against novak.sometimes, you have to let things go to learn from mistakes and become a better player, bigger man and i believe roger has done that.

and the one thing you forget carrie is that roger and rafa, roger and novak, say lovely, encouraging, beautiful things about each other. and i like to concentrate on those comments. because they mean something. if all you do is concentrate on the bad points of every player, then they will never live up to your expectations. they can never grow or learn in your eyes, because they are "bad sportsman", (naughty roger, naughty murray, naughty novak).

it was yourself who said that you had turned a corner early this year after saying unedifying things about roger federer,but that did not last very long.that is a shame, to me. and definitely his kind gestures towards players in the end outweigh anything else.

apparently borg had a terrible temper and was always very bad when he lost with his coach, is it Leonard Bernhert (or something like that), really calmed him down. I was a bit shocked at that, but he learnt and became a great champion, BB didnt always get it right, but what a legacy he left. I like to remember the good things.that's the angle i am taking anyway.

i hope you enjoy the dubai final.
cheers carrie.

@ maxi 2/27/10 6:55 PM

<Bows to you> Wow, that is definitely the most sporting and mature reply i have seen on this forum. Respect to you for being able to talk like that even to such comments as have been the norm here by 'fans'.

I'm glad that I'm getting to Fedfans, this is a result!

I have grown (surprising for me), more aware of Murray's game. He is young, he is trying to be the best. at the end of his match with Tipsy, he smashed his racquet,very unsportsmanlike ...............

maxi , 2/27/10 6:55 PM


So Murray has now taken his first step to winning the sportsmanship award for 2010, all he has to do now is use obscene language whilst arguing with the umpire, and he is home and dry.

whatever carrie.you cant see clearly right now and i have a problem hearing things too!

I lost part of my post, sorry.

I'm glad that I'm getting to Fedfans, this is a result!
carrie , 2/27/10 9:48 PM

you arent getting to me carrie. i am trying to have a mature discussion with you.i thought very hard about what i wanted to say to you and hoped that it made some sense. obviously you are not reading my post to see that i am trying to speak objectively to you. am glad you feel happy that you have a result though i'm not sure what that result is? but if it makes you happy, then i am glad.positive thoughts are good.
i hope you have a nice evening.
cheers. last post for tonight.

maxi,

If you have a response to my post 2/17/10 6:26 am, I would love to hear it. If you cannot make an argument, then do me a favor and don't bother to address me. As far as you telling me to take a break, I reserve the right to decide when/if I choose to take a break. Although I am sure you would appreciate it, since you obviously have nothing of merit to say in response to my post. Just responding with "so sad", is not saying anything at all. But maybe you really can't say anything. I have no problem stating my beliefs and backing it up with reasonable, logical arguments based on fact, rather than merely relying on pathetic cheap shots. Surely you can do better than that! Or maybe not.

Lulu,

You are new here and seem to think that it's fine and dandy to just throw out any mindless, nasty insult that comes into your mind. Are you capable of making any kind of rational argument or are you just intent on calling people names? It's getting to be kind of old and repetitive. Make an argument, have a real point, say something that shows some effort and thought. Otherwise, you give me no choice but to ignore any future posts from you.

vamosrafa,

I appreciate your comments about making an argument citing facts. However, let me point out that an argument can be made using deduction, reasoning, logic and intelligence. But I do agree with your sentiments about saying that so and so called someone this name or that. If you are going to make a specific accusation, then actual links should be cited.

I thought it might be nice to actually get back on topic here. I reread Cheryl's blog about the sportsmanship issue. What I noticed is that she took great pains to make a distinction between Fed the player and Fed the sportsman. Cheryl's admiration of Fed the player cannot be in doubt. However, one can admire and respect a player's game and innate talent, yet still feel that this player is not deserving of an award for sportsmanship. I think Cheryl's point is well made. The incident at last year's US Open was serious enough to preclude Fed from consideration for sportsman of the year.

There are only four grand slams in the tennis calendar year. These are the most important tournaments that the greatest number of fans tune in to watch. This is the biggest stage in the sport of tennis. Seeing Fed lose his cool and use profanity as he argued with the chair umpire, was unfortunate. It also was deemed serious enough for Fed to be fined. This is not nothing. Fed fans argue that this is the only time that it happened during the year. What about all the other times when Fed maintained his composure, they ask. My response is that ONE time is ONE time too many. If you are going to be called the sportsman of the year, then your record should be unblemished. Fed's tirade at the US Open was a black mark. The fact that it was only once and not more often, is not a reason to give him this award. If it was an award for outstanding player of the year or most popular player of the year, well, that's another thing entirely. But when it comes to best sportsman, Fed simply doesn't deserve it.

I don't think anyone can question Cheryl's opinion of Fed the player. All you need to do is read her blog about Fed not getting the credit he deserves, to know that she holds him in high regard. I also happen to agree with the point she made in that blog. You don't win that many grand slams without having a certain level of mental toughness. I have never been one to doubt Fed's innate mental strength.

Cheryl gave an honest opinion and backed it up by referencing Fed's behavior at last year's US Open final. I agree with her.

LOL!! cheryls opinion piece fine, it's just that. but this pile of p** is far more dull and worn out than all those conspiracy theories back during the US Open. get over it, the majority love roger federer, the greatest player and sportsman of this era.

nothing is unfortunate or unfair about it to anyone but the same clannish posters on this thread, same complaints. i suppose there is a benefit: group therapy support for the perpetually disgruntled and bitter........lol.......carry on. never stop

Native,ONE of the reasons I hesitate to respond to you is because your posts are so long, (are you going for the booker prize or something?) and quite aggressive (sorry but they are), that i think to myself, do i really want to get into this? and the answer is "no".i dont. i dont like particularly the way you write because you are standing on a podium (going for a medal at the winter olympics ?- are you watching it right now?isn't it great?)). the fact that you support what Ms.cheryl murray says,is of no consequence to me.you are both entitled to your opinion.however,Ms. cheryl murray is known for her dislike of federer (compared to rafa) and so her blog is filled with holes.and i dont want to get into another argument there. many posters here have commented on her blog and said exactly what i agree with (senorplaid, jyannis) i have said my bit.no one is human and if i could be anything like Mr. federer in terms of person,philanthropist,humanitarian,sportsman (yesm, native, sportsman).he has been voted that by the PLAYERS.i seem to repeat what i have said previously,and you seem to want to fight.that is your way, it's not my way.you are the one here on a tirade.you see yourself as perfect? do you native? are you THE one person on this planet who is perfect? do you really have to write these long posts ALL THE TIME? are you capable of a 2-liner every now and again, so we can move on?you seem to want to tip out words from a chute,fast and free flowing, that never stop.i saw all these paragraphs and thought, here we go again.rather than "ooooh, i am really interested in what native has got to say".you say the same thing. and then you say this to me?

maxi,

If you have a response to my post 2/17/10 6:26 am, I would love to hear it. If you cannot make an argument, then do me a favor and don't bother to address me. As far as you telling me to take a break, I reserve the right to decide when/if I choose to take a break. Although I am sure you would appreciate it, since you obviously have nothing of merit to say in response to my post. Just responding with "so sad", is not saying anything at all. But maybe you really can't say anything.

I think it is "sad" because i dont find you objective in the least. but you are right. i should have explained myself better (sorry native).

You are rude native by addressing me in this way. you want to bully people into your way of thinking or have a proper, sensible discussion? when you word a post in this way. and now i am in danger of writing a long post and boring other people. so i am going to apologise to other posters here, but i have re-read the above and that is why this is longer than normal (sorry).

"You are the embodiment of the very worst excesses among SOME truly wretched Fed fans". You said this to torres? and you're not a "wretched rafafan?" how sweet.

These are the things you say? and you think this is acceptable (though you addressed this to someone else here) you are not (or may be you are?) the head of the ATP? you are not the person to whom we have to check what we say.

When Mr. ricky dimon says that federer's outburst was a "minor incident" and you obviously love what he and cheryl write (rafa fans UK,so that's not a surprise), then why cant you accept that it IS a minor incident and that overall the players did not seek to think this one incident would affect his nomination?

"so, why is it that on the one hand cheryl says, federer is a "gentlemen", flawless ambassadors", you cant have it both ways native.

maxi , 2/18/10 6:48 PM
Ricky dimon:
'And ESPN News is trying to blow it out of proportion now. It was a minor incident. ESPECIALLY compared to Serena.
RickyDimon , 9/15/09 3:06 AM
Cheryl murray:
it was NOT a big deal at all. Roddick does worse on a regular basis with nobody batting an eye. It was only because it was Federer saying it that everyone is in a tizzy.
cherylmurray , 9/15/09 3:21 AM

I dont want to have to repeat myself here native on the issue about the fed incident,so i respectfully ask of you not to keep going on about it and that we have fresh discussion:

apologies to everyone for this long post, skip it if it gets too boring as was trying to explain native (her request) and sometimes i dont make myself clear.
native, you say you have been a student of the game for "all your life", that must mean you are quite experienced? if this is so, i would have expected a more objective response, rather than a bashing.

*no one is human!* (a slip!)
no one is perfect! :)

maxi,

I am going to choose NOT to respond to the truly insulting and gross personal insults you directed at me. But I will say that I am hardly the only one who writes long posts here. If you think it's too much for you to absorb, then by all means feel free to skip over it. If it's too taxing, then don't bother. I am not writing to make you happy or do and say what you want. So deal with it! You don't like what I write and obviously don't like me, so ignore what I saw and I will return the favor. It's not as though you and I will ever see things the same way.

This is exactly the same type of garbage that I had to endure on tennis-x. So you Fed fans then migrate over her to spread your animosity and intimidation. Well, this Rafa fan is not going to shut up, quit posting for as long or short as I want, or be coerced into doing what you think I should be doing. You have a lot of nerve to suddenly put yourself on a pedestal and talk as though you are pontificating from on high. Just read your own post and see that you are doing precisely that which you accuse me of doing.

Your condescending apology to others for being forced to make a long post in response to me, only shows how ridiculous this whole issue has now become. By the say, I have observed that you can be quite loquacious and post fairly long comments yourself.

When you walk the walk and talk the talk, then you can presume to tell me how to act and what to say and when/how. Until then, I don't take orders from you or any other Fed fan who wishes to engage in bullying tactics. You people just don't like being called out on your behavior. What you call bashing is me responding to the disgusting insults from Fed fans. Maybe it would be easier for you if I was someone who couldn't think or write my thoughts and make a coherent argument.

I stand by my position that Fed did not deserve the sportsman of the year award. If that is a capital offense in your opinion, too bad! Your effort to make an argument by posting Ricky's comments, is not making an argument at all. I merely agreed with Cheryl's blog and gave my reasons. I don't have anymore more to say on the matter (surprise)!

One last comment and I don't care how long this post is - if you think for even one minute that you or your fellow Fed fans are going to get away with the filthy garbage that goes on at , think again! At least on this site, there are enough Rafa fans to prevent you from doing that.

A few typos in my previous post -

In the first paragraph, I meant to say - Ignore what I SAY!

Second paragraph - so you Fed fans migrate over HERE!

Third paragraph - By the WAY!

I want to make sure every single thing I said in my LONG post is perfectly clear. One other thing I want to bring up - a while back someone posted on under the screen name "Tennis Talk". That person made a vindictive personal attack on me, using that phony screen name for cover. This person felt that they were doing something great by supposedly "outing" me and addressing the post using the screen name I use here and my real name, which I use on . As though this was some incredible discovery, like I am hiding or something! I have had my suspicions as to which Fed fan posting on this site, is the one who made that cowardly attack.

Now you have definitely helped me to narrow down the suspects. Yes, you are one of them and the person who jumped on here to once again add her vulgar comments to this discussion. Yes, the same person who had a comment directed at me that was deleted by ricky, who then urged this individual to e-mail me privately.

You Fed fans will stop at nothing to try and go after anyone who challenges you and what you think. The more intelligent the person, the more personal and vicious the attacks. What a shame.

@NNY,

in your opinion, who deserved the award then, pray tell.

Mind you, by your own standards, it has to be someone with absolutely no unsportsmanly conduct at all till now.

and since you like reasoned arguments, argue this out for me - Why has rafa never been even nominated for this award?

cant you atleast reserve your energy for threads which actually concern rafa? since this is one in which rafa has no place simply because no one in the ATP circuit considers him even close to this honour. it is easy to sit at home and love his play but it is so irritating when you have an opponent like that at the other side of the net. it spoils ones day even if one had set out only for some light hearted practice

FEDisthe GOAT,

You know what amazes me? If you read what I said, then you would see that I specifically pointed out my agreement with Cheryl's previous blog, in which she made the case that Fed doesn't get credit for his mental toughness. Interesting that you overlook this. I have never thrown cheap shots at Fed and never will. But that truly doesn't carry any weight with Fed fans. That is what bothers me the most. I make a concerted effort to ignore the personal attacks on Rafa, yet I lost anyway. So it's a lost cause.

If you noticed, I made a point of NOT making the case for Rafa. I didn't even know about this award until I came here and read Cheryl's blog. If I say that I think Rafa would be a worthy candidate, then of course I am just another biased Rafa fan. Interestingly enough, Cheryl didn't give her preference for the award.

I think this has been discussed to death and, with the tenor of recent comments and the personal objection to me, length of my posts, my tone, my attitude, pretty much everything about me, I have no desire to participate any longer. I don't need it.

However, I will compliment you on the respectful tone of your post. It is much appreciated.

NNY,

This is one Fed fan who appreciates the fact that you never throw cheap shots at Roger. I like the fact that when responding to attacks on your player you always show respect for Roger. Although I obviously don't agree with every one of your posts, I enjoy reading them nonetheless... regardless of the length!

Champion7,

You have totally renewed my faith with your kind words. It gets really discouraging when I make a concerted effort to refrain from personally attacking Fed, only to have to read some of the very worst attacks directed at Rafa. In the past I have tried to reach out to Fed fans, but have come to realize that it is not meant to be. We will always be at each other's throats.

I will challenge Fed fans if I have an issue with something they say about Rafa, his fans or even myself. But I am trying hard not to cross the line I have drawn in the sand. I do not hate Fed, wish him ill in any way, shape or form. I publicly congratulated him here after his well deserved AO win. He has my respect. If I don't love his game and find Rafa's more to my liking, well that's a matter of personal taste or opinion. You have given me a reason to continue holding myself to my promise not to attack Fed. I even posted a get well message for Fed upon learning of his lung infection. But that means absolutely nothing to some Fed fans.

I know we will not agree on many things, but thank you so much for acknowledging the fact that I don't trash Fed. I posted my honest thoughts about the sportsman award, while mentioning that an award for outstanding player would be very deserving. I am sure you don't agree with me about the sportsmanship award, but that's okay. It's over and done, Fed has the award and that's pretty much the end of it.

Many thanks. I needed it after reading some of the more recent posts here. So we can agree to disagree on a lot of things, but hopefully with mutual respect.

NNY,

I am glad of the effect my words had on you. I try to be respectful of both Rafa and his achievements in tennis. It helps that I like him, though I enjoy Roger's tennis more. I love their rivalry, because when both are at their very best and battling it out on court? it takes a lot to best that match in its quality. I enjoy the discussions the rivalry between these two great players throws up, so long as it doesn?t turn into a battlefield where insults run rampant.

I agree with your comments. I always try to remain respectful, and appreciate it when people try to do the same. I hope both Roger and Rafa recover quickly and return to action soon.

native,
i scrolled through your post. saw very little of interest.considering i have never had a conversation with you on you do little to support what you say. try a two liner. it might calm you down.

champion7: i find your posts a refreshing welcome. the forums need more like you - from both sides. only as native says...it's difficult when clowns take cheap shots just because they disagree with your opinion. for some, if you don't agree with them, you either know nothing about tennis or you're sourgrapes and that's the extent of it. i hope you stay because it's enjoyable to discuss differences of opinions with someone like you. i just hope you don't get corrupted by the rest of us :)

wow maxi. I think you posted my "minor incident" comment here no less than 5 times. I'm unsure why you're using that to argue your "case" however. I DON'T think it's a major occurrence (therefore minor). But it was still an obvious example of bad sportsmanship and I don't think he should have won that award this year.

Cheryl

I respect your opinion. I just want to make a point about the US Open incident. I watched the match and Fed was right to complain. I don´t think that this award should be directly connected to lack of emotion, to the idea that a player shoud never question anything. Roger didn´t drop the F ..word to the umpire. He said I don´t give a shh Ok he got nervous, maybe he regretted 5 seconds after. It was not an offense towards the umpire. I don´t see like that. I´ve seen another player who told the kids in the audience to study otherwise they would end up being umpires. That was hard. Serena´s incident was much harder. Some post here said we don´t know what she said to the linesperson. Yes, we know, many people were there very close to her and listened to her words. And a linesperson is not less important than an umpire, as was posted here. IMO, a good sportsman goes beyong those moments, probably he was voted because he is a guy who doesn´t use his status as n.1 and 16 GS winner to make demands.
I think his peers know. Top players have a different criteria to analyze what a good sportsman is, they want an opponent who provide good field for them to play and compete. Fans in general like emotional moments, many people defended Nadal here claiming he should be elected because of that moment in AO 2009. I don´t agree. hugging your opponent in front of lots of flashes to make paper cover is not sportsmanship imo.

cheryl, here is the list of criteria to be a good sportsman, you must:

1. not shake hands with chair umpire when you lose.
2. not shake hands properly with opponents who beat you.
3. make backhanded digs at players who beat you in slam finals.
4. condem players who wilt in the heat and can't continue a match.
5. publicly criticise a player because the media chose him as a favourite over you.
6. take a blatantly long toilet break then sit down to change your t-shirt when you are behind in a slam match (to wait for the sun to move).
7. cry at a presentation ceremony than claim it's not because you lost but because
you love the sport so much (ok a bit harsh).
8. wear a jacket with gold "15" in the face of your opponent whose heart just broke (forgetting you cried only 5 months earlier in a similar moment).
9. call players names like one-dimensional than later twist and say it was a compliment.
10. tell neil harman of the timesonline that rafa didn't celebrate his FO 08 win because he was shocked that someone could beat roger fereder by that scoreline.
11. tell the press conference at ao 05 infront on the other top 9 players that it's going ot take a very good player to beat you. then....
12. accuse marat safin of gamesmanship because he beat you in the 2005 AO SF.
13. tell the media at uso 07 that the these people are watching greatness.
14. tell the ao 2010 audience how special and talented you are, so crazily talented
that you yourself can't believe it.
15. tell the media that despite rafa withdrawing from queens and wimb 09, you
don't think his knees are really hurting because you can tell when they are.
16. be dismisive of murray and roddick after you beat them in slam finals because
it should all be about you.
17. blame the darkness when you lose a wimb final.
18. blame momentum when you lose an ao final.
19. insult the women's no. 1 for not winning a slam than cover it up with a "no disrespect to jelena jankovic".

ok, i think i'll stop here for today. just letting my reasons for why i'm no fan. no one needs to jump on me. i'm entitled to my opinion and just trying to help cheryl see the light!!

homos, job well done!

How aboutshouting at the family in the stands to 'Be Quiet'

By the way Lulu, Fededer did drop the f-word, I have the match on disc, and it's definitely there. Just search with those words on the internet for Federer, 2009 USO, and you will stop claiming that he didn't say it. He said it whilst addressing the umpire.

Homos

You fogot one

Not agree with WADA doping policies...Well, this belongs to Nadal. He is the only elite player above this rules.

Federer is simply in awe of himself!

lulu: you for got 3 more:

1. murray doesn't agree with the rules either.
2. yanina wickmayer didn't even comply with the rules.
3. xavier maliesse also didn't comply with the rules.

oh wait...we've gone off topic. not sure how opinion about wada rules has to do with sportsmanship but there you go...

homos, WADA has nothing to do with this thread, but as Lulu is clutching at straws, that's the only 'stick' she can find to beat Rafa with. The fact is, Rafa may not agree with the rules but he complies with them. If he didn't, we would have heard by now.

cheryl, it is something you did say and I feel if you want to change your mind now, then of course, that is up to you. there are many examples of bad sportsmanship, this is true to say, but there is no one player who excels in sportsmanship moreso than federer. and many people from around the world believe that to be the case.by citing examples, dwelling on the past and negatives, does nothing unless people learn from them.and as a few people have said here (earlier) including yourself, with your "cheap shot", does nothing to add to the argument.sorry cheryl,but that's how i feel.it was a cheap shot and laced with plenty of sarcasm.unnecessary and bad sportsmanship.

Homos,

Thank you for the compliment. I understand what you?re saying. Now, I think I'll have a go at this sportsmanship debate.

Well, I don't watch near enough tennis (I mainly watch the tennis that is broadcasted here in Australia, and that?s not a whole lot), nor know near enough to say who deserved this award for 2010 (I don't even know the full list of nominations), however, perhaps I can have a go at explaining why the players have voted for Roger.

It has to be a reasonably successful player, because if it is, say, Leonardo Mayer, hardly anyone would have played him or known anything about him. Roger Federer ? you would think ? fits this requirement, as do Rafa and quite a few others. But since this debate is mainly between Rafa fans and Roger fans, then I?ll list some reasons as to why players have voted Roger over Rafa.

Well, first of all, and, I think, most important of all, is their style of play. Rafa makes opponents work for every single point. By the time it is 2-2 in the first set, I imagine they would feel as if they had played for a set and a half. Every time you try to hold serve it is a physical and emotional struggle. By the time the match is finished, you would have invested huge amounts of psychological and physical energy, and yet, likely as not, you would still have lost, most likely in straight sets. Don?t you think that when players go through all that and then see Rafa doing his Vamos?s and pumping his fist? that they might just be a little cross?

Federer, on the other hand, finishes you off fairly quickly, a free lesson in tennis (unless you are one of the top players) and at the end invariably greets you warmly at the net. I would imagine they felt a little for warmly to Federer than Nadal at the end of their respective matches.

Secondly, in the locker room. I have read quotes from players where they recount how Federer has congratulated them on a win, no matter what circuit they play on. I think these players would probably vote for him. He is often described as being very friendly to all players, making them feel at ease. He would, I think, get the vote from Sam Querrey and others who have been sent notes offering condolences for the various misfortunes they have suffered. I have no idea if Rafa does anything like this ? perhaps some more knowledgeable would enlighten me.

All in all, I think when they were given the list of players and asked who got their vote for best sportsman, many would have thought of Roger. It is as much a popularity contest as anything, and I don?t think anyone can deny that Federer is very popular.

I don?t know who my preference would be, as I don?t know nearly enough about it. Please regard this post as my opinion, however, for it is nothing more than that, along with some speculation.
Sorry this is so long!

champion7: you're welcome :) and thanks for you post. don't worry about length. you make an interesting point about the physicality of rafa's matches. it's possible, i'm not sure. i've yet to read that anywhere...that players say that although i do know hewitt's on court c'mon gestures were thought by some opponents to be rather ill-timed and there was a specific reason for this: he would shout this even when players made an error, the point being that he wouldn't necessarily shout it on HIS winning point. i tihnk that's why chela spat at him and tried to serve a ball right at him, and corretja publicly chastised him. but i've not read players say this about rafa. however that doesn't mean your point is not valid. i'll have to give it more thought. at this point, i'm not sure i agree. i have read that when rafa wins matches, particularly big matches, some players (esp. the french) have expressed appreciation for his genuine apology at the net that they lost.

i do think some posts above make a valid point - as do you - that 'popularity' is a key factor. in this regard, i can see why fed was voted. ultimately, as you say - we don't really know what happened: who was on the list, how players voted, who was narrowed down, etc. to me, fed won it and that's it. like cheryl, i fail to see why he should win a "sportsmanship" award this year but i don't think i've indicated anywhere that i think rafa should have won it. personally, i woulnd't mind seeing cilic, simon or delpo win it but perhaps they're not "high enough" in the ranking and it would look ridiculous. who knows...

you will need to subscribe to foxsport or resort to livestream ;)

on another point, did you catch the story on four corners last night about tennis australia? i hope you didn't miss it, it was rather revealing. accusations have been brewing last few years and the bubble burst last year when mcnamee went after pollard's top position. it has been revealed now why mcnamee narowly lost the vote (9-7).

here are some reads for you:

http://mumbrella.com.au/harold-mitchell-accused-of-misleading- tennis-australia-board-member-over-seven-deal-during-presidency-vote-1 9451

http://bigpondnews.com/articles/Sport/2010/03/02/Hewitt_condem ns_Tennis_Australia_435016.html

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new s-sport/tennis-australia-controlling-exchamps-20100301-pdmx.html

ht tp://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/01/2832535.htm?site=sport&sec tion=all

Homos,

Thanks for your reply. Just to make it clear, for the most part my above post wasn't directed towards you, rather at the discussions that had gone before.

Yes, I have noticed how Rafa is very friendly to his opponent - win or lose - after a match. I loved his guesture to Roger at the medal ceremony at the AO 09. My post is merely speculation. There are many different sides to the story. I admit that I was a little surprised when I read that Fed had won, because although I thought for the most part he acted well in both win and loss, there were quite a few instances where he didn't behave all that perfectly. I don't know who I would vote for. If I follow my heart - yes it would be Federer. If I follow my head... Well, I'd tend to agree with you nominations - from what I've seen of them.

I quite liked Cheryl's blog. It had all her usual characteristics - humour, wit, and it was well written. I didn't realy know about the 'princess' part, but I didn't take it all too seriously either:D

No, I didn't catch the story you mentioned. I did hear something about it, but not a whole lot. Oh, and just so you know, all the links you posted are unfortunately broken.

This is probably my last post of the day.

Cheryl,

Please, for the love of heaven do NOT retract what you said in your blog! Don't take the bait with maxi. Her interpretation of what you wrote is beyond biased. You were quite respectful of Fed the player and making the distinction between that and being sportsman of the year, was key to your whole point. I agree with you. I can take the heat from others who claim I am trying to curry favor with you. I don't care. I can think for myself, thank you very much, contrary to the opinions of those who I do not respect at all.

Unfortunately, Fed fans can love you one week and hate you the next. Say even one thing that may be slightly critical of their guy and that's it! But when you wrote that blog about Fed not getting the credit he deserves, then the Fed fans couldn't think up enough words to praise you to the heavens! Fickle, aren't they?

homos,

Okay, after that list from you, I am officially in love with you! :) Unbelieveable, genius, what can I say! Here I am getting pounded for being such an insufferable person who writes posts that are WAYYYY too long and say nothing. But you came at them from an entirely different direction. You are my hero! Great, great job!

How on earth did you remember all of that? You brought up some incidents I had totally forgotten about! That was the best post from you I have read! Perfect!

Thank you so very much! :)

champion7: if you google "four corners tennis australia", you will get a list of links. in one of them is a video link to the story that was aired. do have a look if you have time. it sheds light on their TA's management strategy, explains why hewitt has been the lone flag bearer for the last 7-8 years, why a lot of oz coaches have gone overseas and many talented juniors quit the game...although snippets have been revealed before if you were in to the gossip.

native: happy to oblige. do i get an award now or will you just stalking me? ;)
it was only because i caught lulu's last sentence implying rafa's hypocracy at AO 09. i guess rafa should have just left roger to ball his eyes out in a ceremony that was prepared for his win, and allow the awakward moment to drag on for roger. what a nice fan!

native, you make me laugh. thank you.cheryl said it herself. this isnt bait.she wrote it in her blog.you have your view and i have mine, which i happen to share with

Nugz , 2/17/10 8:03 PM
jayson88 , 2/17/10 8:41 PM
Deborah , 2/17/10 9:12 PM
niloofar , 2/17/10 9:12 PM
leenyc , 2/17/10 9:36 PM
Jaycee , 2/17/10 10:50 PM
10sfan , 2/18/10 1:36 AM
raven55 , 2/19/10 6:59 AM
Nugz , 2/18/10 6:31 AM
nellie , 2/24/10 5:55 PM

I think you need to re-test your lenses native :). there's plenty people here who agree that the above which you describe as "for the love of heaven dont retract - ", because people like you enjoy degrading roger.makes you feel better.you see it differently.fine.not a problem.but there are plenty people here who disagree with you native and you just have to accept that, (no matter how difficult it is).your posts are long and boring anyway.i try to skip them as best i can.


too many more to post - but really - you should read them and see what they say before you criticise.

Just because you agree with cheryl murray doesnt make you a better person (though you might feel that way to get in the "good books".

homos,

I would love to give you an award for best post on this subject! But I promise not to stalk you! :) Seriously, you took some time and effort to detail numerous instances of Fed's lack of sportsmanship, things that I myself had forgotten. I think it was a good idea, given the fact that certain Fed fans do not think that the incident at the US Open is enough evidence to disqualify him from being sportsman of the year. I think it's enough. That was my reasoning. Of course, I had the temerity to agree with Cheryl and you just know that, as far as some Fed fans are concerned, that means that I am trying to get on her good side. I guess it's easier to believe that than to accept the fact that I have my own personal beliefs. As you can also see, we are considered to be in the minority on this issue. So I guess majority rules, or should I say Fed fans rule.

maxi,

The fact that you cite the number of people who agree with you, does not in any way support your opinion or give it greater weight. Everyone is entitled to have their own belief or opinion, no matter how many agree or disagree. I am surprised that you would use that to try to make the case that somehow your opinion is right and mine is not.

I am truly disappointed that you seem to think that I enjoy degrading Roger. You are the one who needs to adjust your lenses or get glasses. You obviously haven't read what I have said. But it's pointless to reiterate my basic respect and admiration for Fed. That doesn't cut it with someone like you. I said that I don't think Fed deserved to be sportsman of the year and that's blasphemy in your eyes.

We agree to disagree and that's pretty much it.

"We agree to disagree and that's pretty much it."

Yeah, and not a one of y'all will STFU about it. This post, which Cheryl never fully explained in terms of how the award is decided, who were the finalists, and what was the vote, etc., and matters really only to the winner and a very few others, is now 2 weeks old. We're coming up on Indian Wells. Can we all just move on to the next inevitable Fed-Rafa spitfest?

No? Oh well, it was a shot.

senorplaid, you are funny :). native just loves her "tongue bashings" doesnt she. you go girl!

SP,

Thanks so much! I hereby give my word that I am done with this subject. Just keep in mind one thought - it takes two, or more, to tango! You can't argue with yourself now, can you? Of course, you can, but it might get kind of lonely!

Let's move on to Indian Wells. It can't come a moment too soon, can it? Then we can really go at it, because both Rafa and Roger will be back in action. Well, here we go!

You will not hear anything more from me on this subject. Thanks for injecting a much needed dose of reality. As you can see, I just love "tongue lashings", don't I. You would think I invented the concept. Oh well, at least we have some humor at last. Not a moment too soon.

Why you should learn to love Roger Federer's smugness
By Douglas Perry, The Oregonian

Extracts posted go here for ful article -
http://blog.oregonlive.com/tennis/2010/03/why_you_should_learn_to_s top_worrying_and_love_roger_federers_smugness.html


?There?s no secret behind it. I?m definitely a very talented player,? he quotes the Royal Rog as saying. ?I always knew I had something special.? That was enough to kick Kidd into fifth gear: "His whole image is based on smugnes."


Let?s start with that post-match quote. I?ve defended Federer for his boastful statements over the years. He?s not really boasting, I point out. He?s saying it like it is. It?s a refreshing break from the mindless, nauseating faux humility so many winning athletes put on. Federer doesn?t do B.S. He?s like a tennis version of John McCain, circa 2000, winging down the highway on the Straight Talk Express. You don't like what I have to say? he offers. OK, eat this overhead and tell me how you like that.

The Associated Press

The Roger Federer of pop music?
The simple fact is, Federer can pull it off because he backs it up. Maybe Andy Roddick?s rages would be bearable if he won the Big Ones, but he doesn?t and so he?s just obnoxious. And maybe if Andy Murray won majors his mumbly honesty would be charming. Instead, as he learned after admitting that he viewed Dubai as a ?training exercise,? nobody?s willing to cut him any slack. Life isn?t fair, kids.

I say, spin that disco ball and get down to Funky Town with Miss Germanotta. But if you?re a mocker, then this blog can?t help you. I?m a talent snob and take the position that the great ones must be forgiven -- even celebrated -- for their eccentricities. Federer?s quirk is wearing flash clothes and telling anyone who asks that he has ?something special.? Rafael Nadal?s quirk, by comparison, is picking at his backside on national TV.

To each his own, I say. Now we just need to get the Furvert and the Picker back on court at the same time again. For all the Roger haters out there, that?s probably still the best way to shut him up.



@all rafafans, this is my fav part and i repost it here -

"But if you?re a mocker, then this blog can?t help you. I?m a talent snob and take the position that the great ones must be forgiven -- even celebrated -- for their eccentricities. Federer?s quirk is wearing flash clothes and telling anyone who asks that he has ?something special.? :) Rafael Nadal?s quirk, by comparison, is picking at his backside on national TV."!!! :)
Surely fed's quirks are better?

I too am a talent snob and admire any attempt at perfection. Some people just cant take genius or the fact that they get special treatment. You guys would have hated Mohammed Ali so much if he were in town now!! Face it people.

native: i'm ashamed to say that that 19 list didn't take much effort at all and not much more time than my other posts. i caught the last line of the preceding post when i came back here and thought i'd quote a few examples. few became 19 and that's when i stopped. it was what came to mind and i simply listed, hence, why they're not necessarily in chronological order. i did have other, better things to do but it became a bit of a laugh in the end at how easy it came to me :) there were other examples but i didn't bother after that. it's good to have a laugh sometimes, no?

FedisAgoat,
Nothing at all gives these articles credence, they are the opinions of a Fedfan, dressed up as a journalist.

homos,

Just take the credit! I don't care if it took you a few minutes, a nanosecond or less, it was positively brilliant. I wish that I would have just done it, but I didn't have all of those incidents at me fingertips. But what made it great was the totality of it all. It presents quite a picture.

Take your bow! You still deserve it! Yes, indeed it is good to laugh. But I made a promise to Senor Plaid not to engage in any more back and forth and leave this blog alone. So nothing about the subject, just a simple thank you again! Job well done! :)

homos,

I love you list!!!!! Keep it coming - or put in a blog somewhere - I'm sure lots of people can contribute more...

well, native...i guess i've been told! boo! ;)

thanks jessica. interesting idea...

i think homos wrote a nice post. its necessary thath rafa fans here think rafa shud have won the award but there were better and more deserving candidates than roger for the award THIS YEAR but they were not considered due to that POPULARITY thing cheryl talked about. i do think rafa deserved it more than federer (this year only) but i am not saying rafa shud have been given the award right-away. there are others more deserving, i mean luk at cilic. cool as a cucumber, steps on to the court, serves big returns big ,game over win or loss ,celevrates or congratulates and banishes .!!!

@homos NNY etc...

congrats on the greatest achievement of your life - listing a few irrelevant faults of perhaps the most respected sportsman on the planet. :)
Arent you ashamed of yourself NNY for admiring a person for picking faults? Maybe it is time you and your cohorts took a good long look in the mirror and think about what are the things to be admired and pitied.

Sorry for being preachy, but i real felt sad for the two of you, homos atleast has the decency to sound slightly embarrassed by NNY's showering praises for something anybody would be ashamed of.

well, she just keeps on posting on every blog. considering carrie FIRST posted the article of the smugness of federer, thank the mighty allah that douglas perry saw the article from anti fed journalist and posted a reply to all the issues raised and it was wonderful! A response well worth the read. thanks FedistheGoat.

carrie, i am interested if you say the following:

FedisAgoat,
Nothing at all gives these articles credence, they are the opinions of a Fedfan, dressed up as a journalist.
carrie , 3/3/10 8:51 AM

why did you post the article about fed's smugness in the first place and then go on to say that anyone who disagrees with it has no credence?

SP,

Please note FEDistheGOAT's post attacking me once again for enjoying that list compiled by homos. So now I am not even allowed to appreciate what someone says on here. My goodness, the rules are getting tougher and tougher all the time, coming from some Fed fans who presume to run this site.

I promised you that I would refrain from continuing the argument, but please note that your fellow Fed fans just couldn't resist attacking. They are the ones who will not give it up. As I said in my previous post to you, it does take two or more to tango, or in this case, continue an argument ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

FEDistheGOAT,

You certainly are in a sour mood! What's wrong with having a sense of humor? Why, pray tell, should I hang my head in embarrassment over that clever post from homos? It was well done. It's the truth. He made a point. So now I am the devil reincarnated because I like the fact that someone managed to counter all the Fed fans with their endless argument that the incident at the US Open, was just a one time thing. He posted a list of incidents that show that there are other examples of a lack of sportsmanship. That's fair, since it actually relates to the topic of this blog.

There's an old saying - if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. I tried to withdraw from this argument, in deference to Senor Plaid's comments. I may not always agree with SP, but I do respect the intelligence and witty humor of his posts. But I do not have to back off if Fed fans persist in continuing this argument. You and maxi are the ones who will not let it go.

I promised you that I would refrain from continuing the argument,
Nativenewyorker , 3/3/10 10:13 PM

so keep your promises then NNY,because your posts are becoming "ad infinitum, ad nauseum".

maxi,

Please do not quote me back to me! I realize that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but in your case it is truly insulting. Think for yourself and post your own thoughts! You are becoming a bit of an embarrassment.

I didn't make any promises to you. It was Senor Plaid, whom I happen to respect. You write things like "yawn" and "boring" in response to people's posts. This is a sign of extreme disrespect. Stop preaching about respect and acting like a hypocrite and practice what you preach!

I think Sportsman of the year is a total popularity contest. The players should probably be given specific criteria, maybe then someone other than Roger might win. From a tennis fans perspective sportsmanship is tied to the players ability to
show appreciation and respect. Respect for the rules of tennis, respect for other players on the court and those people around them on court (umpire,linesmen, ballboys, etc.) So basically it's what happens on the court. I mean, all we really know is what takes place on the court, not who's sending condolances or congradulatory notes. I don't think I've ever seen an athlete show more compassion for a competitor than Rafa did for Roger at the AO. It was almost embarassing to watch. When you compare Rafa's behavior at the AO to Rogers behavior at Wimbleton, there's no doubt about who was the better sportsman. I would like to think that if Rafa had played more tournaments last year that he would have been considered. Otherwise I have no idea how Roger could have been chosen over Rafa.
Although, Roger loves his accolades. It could have been as simple as give it to the guy who wants it the most. Or it could have just been a carryover from years passed. If not Rafa, my choice would have been Cilic. He's the most unpretentious player on the circuit. He never whines, tantrums, or tosses his racket. He's just all about playing tennis. I hope he continues to stride into the top 10.

fedisthegoat - a few irrelevant faults? that is more that a few, my friend, ad that's not even the complete list. i'm not saying fed is or should be perfect but in some instances, as a talented and great achiever, there was no excuse for some of what he said about other players. that's always been my opinion and still is. congrats for thinking it's totally excusable for a top profile personality who's hailed as humble to behave like.

for the record, i never said rafa deserved it more. don't lump me those who think that. i don't have an opinion on who deserved it (although i mentioned delpo, cilic and simon) - i only have an opinion on who DIDN'T! i'm more than used to fed fans denying this dimension of his character so i'm not surprised. i don't think rafa is perfect either but i find more faults with fed to turn me off him...and it's pretty obvious i'm not the only one. where there's smoke there's surely a fire!

in case you hadnt noticed or were not aware native, this is an open conversation for everyone to participate in - and whether you addressed it to Senorplaid or not is of no consequence. keep your promises, like you said, or are you not a woman/man of your word? obviously not. and yes. your posts (on the whole) are boring and more yawns, especially when you call others insulting. that is what you are very good at.

You guys are so funny. It's o.k. for Roger to be egotistical and mouthy like "Mohammed Ali" off the court, but it's not o.k. for Rafa to fist pump his own spectacular shots on the court. You know there's nothing wrong with admitting that this was not Roger's best season in terms of sportsmanship. He got the award anyway, but it is odd. From the crying jag at the AO to the racket busting incident at Miami and then cussing out the ump at the USO, well anyone other than Roger exhibiting those behaviors wouldn't have come close to that award. Hey, I still like the guy, but it does worry me. When he's winning he's all smiles, but when he's losing he's not the Roger of old.

maxi,

You love to use the word "yawn", so I am going to take a page out of your book and give it back to you - *yawn* and *boring*.

"are you not a woman/man".

By the way, regarding the above quote, I will ask you the same question - are you a woman or a man?

native, i am a girl/woman. i think you live in new york?, wanted to mention that you make me laugh a lot of the time. there is a programme in UK called coronation street - i watched it now and then for the comedy value. there is a woman called blanche - do you know her? you remind me of her, native. thanks for the laughs.

maxi,

Well, we have one thing in common - we are both women. That's about it.

Now how on earth would I watch a program in the UK if I live in New York? Only I don't live in New York, I live in L.A. But as you can see if you read my screen name, I am a native New Yorker because I was born there.

I just wonder why you post so much on this site when you have said so often on that you can't stand this place. Strange, very strange. Also, you love to attack people who post all over the place and call them trolls. Does this mean you are a troll, too?

Sorry that I can't return the compliment. I wish I found your comments even remotely funny, but it's just more of the same old name calling over and over again.

Like I said before, as you do so very often,

*yawn*, *boring*

@NNY, maxi,

both of you are two of the more reasonable posters on this forum.. please dont let that go down the drain.

Why be so bitter just because we like different players and cant see anything wrong with our respective players? We all see the world through tinted glasses, nobody can help it.

But we are still tennis fans and one thing i know is that I always enjoy the company of a tennis fan. infact i remember times when watching a match with the fan of the rival player (nadal too) is sometimes more fun even though we keep berating every point the other player gets. :) Doesnt mean we resort to personal attacks.

Can i advocate a handshake without sounding too patronizing?

Senor Plaid - the process for the award, as I understand it, is that the ATP puts together a list of nominees, sends it out to the players (I'm not sure how many players get it though. I've heard top 500 and top 1000, so I can't say for sure) and they mark the one they like best...er....I mean the worthy candidate on the list.

Maxi - Clearly my world isn't as black and white as yours. Let's make a few things clear.
1. Federer dropping the F-bomb isn't a big deal in relation to the other things he could have done.
2. The award in and of itself isn't a particularly big deal either, though obviously interesting enough for me to blog about.
3. I still think he didn't deserve it.

Does that make things clear for you? The fact that he got it was a curiosity for me. I personally think they should change the name to "The player all the other players like the most" award.

It still amazes me that not a single Federer fan has the ability to understand that what I wrote was a knock on the ATP for mis-naming that award. And spare me the "you said he looked like a princess" bit. I'm an equal opportunity fun-poker and I always do so without malice.

@ dear cheryl, one thing you must understand is that no player would like a 'bad sportsman'. Nomatter what else, a player will be judged by his peers for his behavior and performance on the court. if that earned him he 'popularity' and 'liking' more than any other player, please clarify to me how that popularity doesnt translate to 'sportsmanship'??

Do you honestly believe that players would vote for fed while in their mind they believe he doesn't deserve it?

By naming the award differently, you are just defining the same word in a different way. i think ATP had the sense to name it properly. And as for your 'princess' bit, when you begin a blog with an acknowledged 'low-blow', you should expect the replies you have seen here, though i haven't commented on it because i see nothing to make fun of in fed's dress, in fact much less than about rafa who seemed for a while bent on imitating his role-model in clothing and everything except style of play

Talking about tennis fashion, during the Davis Cup today, Sky News talked about the history of the Davis Cup and showed a picture of four players from the early 20th century, complete with long trousers, cardigan, jacket, and one of them even had a pipe in his hand. Ruzedski was quick to point out that the only thing Federer was missing was the pipe. Who knows, it's probably only a matter of time! They didn't carry a man bag though, that's just the 21st version of the staid look.

@carrie,
it was a tribute on fed's part to wear that for wimbledon. You of course wont understand it. fed though thinks that the tennis should retain some of its old charm and that was his way of paying tribute to those players of old.

Just see how he appears for press conferences etc to see how he normally dresses, you'll see no pretentiousness. Just plain everyday dressing for him. He just happens to have a respect for the centre court that is expressed thus, but have the maturity to see it not as his 'staidness' but as what it is

FITG, I didn't know why he wore the old style kit, perhaps they should explain more about these things so that people don't get the wrong impression. This is the first I've heard of the fact that it was to celebrate bygone days.

Don't blame me this time, it was Ruzedski who made the comparison although I have to admit, I have been known to poke fun at it myself.

Fed is Goat - The jacket was charming but the gold emblazoned "15" on the back cheapened the whole package. It was tooooooooo much, over the top and personally I thought it a shame. I read somewhere that he didn't know the "15" was there, but I don't buy it.

FEDistheGOAT,

I must thank you for the kind, sincere and generous tone of your post urging a truce and/or a handshake. However, having complimented you for your effort to bring harmony and fellowship on this site, I just have to say - sorry, it ain't gonna happen.

But thanks for trying! :)

did the traditional outfits have gold initials on them and accompanied by a man purse? the idea may be tradition but there's no denying the pretentiousness and status consciousness reflected in some aspects of the outfit. if he'd worn all white with no initials and carried a normal bag, i'd say he was doing a respectable thing.

wimb still keeps the tradition of white that all players have to wear so to go back in time when times/fashion have changed and to add the little pretentious aspects that seems to smack of vanity just pushes it a bit too far. it ends up looking stupid and fake. he should just wear all white, do away with the initials and carry a normal male bag. fame and money has clearly got to his head. i suppose he'll display the purse in the room of his house where all his trophies and photographs are displayed, the room in his house that is solely dedicated to him. i think it's quite nice that he's amazed at his own acheivements and should indeed take time to adsorb his great acheivements but he seems unable to check himself at times.

native, kindly please dont put me in your neat little box. it is you who call all others on trolls if they even disagree with you and you know that fairly well. some people eh? just like to cause trouble. and with all the trouble you have caused onit doesnt surprise me that you choose another forum to spread your "wit". because few people enjoy your rinkydink rubbish at didnt you get booted off? some people.

cheryl, thanks for replying. when "poking fun" (carrie's copying you as well!), then may be "poke fun" at rafa's fashion sense too. Pink shirt at roland garros? blue check shorts and green top at another tourny, bright orange, in your face at AO? rafa can do no wrong can he? and i think probably now is a good time to write something about rafa so you can go all mushy again.

once again, carrie, loving the comments about the pipe. you forgot the slippers though. the "staid" look was loved and enjoyed by many, just not the "unfashionable" people like yourself :). better than the eye sore clashes from rafa, nike need to rethink their colours.

Maya, if you watched wimby this year, you will see that the "15" WASNT emblazoned on the back of the jacket, it was tucked into a corner of the jacket and was handed to federer AFTER he won the match. so please, state the "facts" properly.

maya, thats "wimby" 2009, and it was presented to federer as he sat down after the match had finished.fed didnt even know about it. please state properly. thanks.

cheryl, there was a delay with my post, so it got broken up - sorry. this bit here:

And spare me the "you said he looked like a princess" bit. I'm an equal opportunity fun-poker and I always do so without malice.
cherylmurray , 3/5/10 7:36 PM

I dont understand what you mean by "spare me?" - but anyway, there are plenty people here who disagree with you. I think to "poke fun" (as you put it), isnt in that much good taste and I think you do enjoy it. but that's fine because there are plenty of people here who like you doing this. i am just one who doesnt. just sayin'.

It still amazes me that not a single Federer fan has the ability to understand that what I wrote was a knock on the ATP for mis-naming that award. And spare me the "you said he looked like a princess" bit. I'm an equal opportunity fun-poker and I always do so without malice.

cherylmurray , 3/5/10 7:36 PM


cheryl, some Fedfans don't do objective, they will not see a good point even when it's hitting them in the face with it's manbag.

Actually maxi, again you stray from the point of my post, where do the slippers come in? These players were dressed for tennis, including a pipe in one hand and a tennis racquet in the other, just like Federer completed his on court look with his manbag, so forget the slippers.

Did you know that Rafa's kit sells 10 times as much as Federer's..........obviously not.

The only things Federer outsells Rafa on are blinkers and rose tinted glasses.

hello carrie, it looks like you bought some blinkers and rose tinted glasses from the fed shop as rafa's shop had run out. No?

definitely something wrong with the delay in posting this morning. sorry carrie, broken up again.

i dont think you are cheryl can call yourself "objective" on the subject of federer, do you?

and *yawn* again carrie. really. you should be spain's mascot. (and its not a compliment).

hello carrie, it looks like you bought some blinkers and rose tinted glasses from the fed shop as rafa's shop had run out. No?

maxi , 3/6/10 9:28 AM


maxi, try and be original for a change, you seem to echo everything people say, whilst I am flattered that you want to copy my sense of humour, it would be fun to see if you have any at all. As for going to Federer's fan shop, I have pointed out before that I simply can't spare the time for the Fed.

I heard on the news this morning that Switzerland are holding a referendum to give amimals legal rights................they've probably condoned on to something here!


____________________________

March 4, 2010, 6:23 pm
Swiss May Give Animals Free Lawyers
By ROBERT MACKEY
Antoine Goetschel speaks for animals in court.afgoetschel.com Like a duck needs a lawyer. Antoine Goetschel with potential clients.

Barely three months after Swiss voters approved a measure to restrict the rights of Muslims to build minarets, they return to the polls on Sunday to consider expanding the rights of animals to get free legal representation.

you've lost me carrie?

similar to the rights of bulls in spain? i dont get it?

Hello! Look how handsome murray looks!!

http://i45.tinypic.com/kdodv5.jpg



He is not like Mr. Arthritic the big gorilla face! Nadal is making a movie as KIng kong you know?
carrie i know!! you use the best old fashioned words like rose tinted etc and even nativeNewyorker used such old old fashioned words which were used so much that people became sick and stopped using such BS like ad infinitum ad nouseum and all and stupid people come and copy it no?/ I am sure you rafa fans invented these great phrases just like your gorilla boy invented running after every ball! how original! TACTICS is the name of modern tennis ok! That name is MURRAY!! come on carrie i know you are a murray fan acting like a nadal fan. i used to think you are so intelligent after you explained how GS is not half as good as 250 tournaments and then i used to think you are a murray fan feeling pity for Mr.Arthritic because he cant walk on his hands in public. But now that you are saying people are copying phrases of language that was in use hundreds of years before you were born??? and saying that you are shakespear itself, so ORIGINAL??? i dont know.. are you really nadal fan? are there actually nadal fans in this world? must be a stupid wold ok!


Dont forget the handsomest sports star--


http://i45.tinypic.com/kdodv5.jpg


GO MUZZAA!!!

maxi: appreciated your comments about Andy in Dubai match. BTW I think definitions of "sporting behaviour" are really difficult and quite subjective. eg. I don't think Andy smashing his raquet after the match was in any way "unsporting." If he'd smashed it over Tipsy's head, well now you'd be talking "unsporting!"

Yes deuse! it was not unsporting ok! Evwryone does it and all. Did you know than in early cave men language Vamos means the f word??? That is why Mr. Arthriticus Neanderthalus (nadal for people who know NOTHING of tennis or science or genetics!!) keeps shouting it! My god! Did you know that??

I read that scotsmen were good at kicking leprechauns! Nadal is a good leprechaun no? Just as disfigure ugly face. So murray likes to wipe the floor with him!



Anyway Agassi is going to coach muzza!! Wow ok! right??

Go MuZZZAA!

deuce, i just think that sometimes when people talk about smashing rackets, they over dramatise it (certainly did with federer - but I understand that because it was a rarity). I like to look at the incident with Andy, as an expression of his passion for the game. It meant/means so much to him and he does carry a lot of pressure, doesnt he?

GoMuzza, I think you are a bit odd to me. I dont understand what you are trying to achieve by your weird language, i dont understand it. Nadal is a very good looking man, but federer is even more good looking (to me) anyway. I dont find Murray that attractive, but i dont really know what this has got to do with tennis anyway, and you seem to be writing silly posts on all threads so please, will you stop? Hopefully the administrator will look at your post and see what you are trying to do, a bit inflammatory i think. probably best to ignore you.

maxi,

Now you are starting to accuse me of the very same things that you do on Don't change the subject. You are the one who trashed this site. You are the one who calls people trolls. Don't put your twisted spin on my experience at . You always try to turn the discussion around and end up accusing people of the very same actions which you are guilty of all too often. You are the one who used the word "troll" on and you know it. It's there for all to see. So don't go rewriting history on this site.

I wonder how I could possibly cause trouble on a site where I rarely, if ever, visit or even post. There you go again, accusing me of exactly what you do all the time. One can just as easily make the point that you persist in causing trouble on this site. You are the one who posts day and night all over the place, attacking anyone who dares to presume to disagree with anything you post.

As far as the last sentence you wrote, I must borrow a comment from Ricky. All I can say to that gibberish you wrote about getting some people booted off with a question mark throw right in the middle of the sentence is - WHAT?

carrie,

Every time you engage with maxi she will attempt to divert the issue or accuse you of things that she does. She knows full well that she trashed this site on , yet here she is posting all over the place. She will try to change the subject, manipulate your words and distort what you are saying. You will never have any kind of honest dialogue with her, but fight the good fight as you always do.

credit to you guys for trying to make someone see reason but let me tell you: it's not going to happen. leave it alone and ignore it, don't come here for a while or it will go on and waste your time.

back to tennis. we need more muzz and djoker fans. it's getting incestuous between rafa and fed fans ;) deuce, where is the rest of your faction??

homos: hi my friend. Everyone else is probably still licking their wounds after AO and Dubai! Also, have you noticed, every time I post, my new best friend pops up too, with mad comments about Rafa. Yikes, am getting too terrified to post myself now! Agree with your comments on other post btw. I did not find a certain person's comments b4 AO final, "charming or amusing." People are being disingenuous if they think so.

VON and NATIVE, oh my bad. cannot believe that the two of you are say such rotten lies. you both use the word trolls. both of you. once i used that word over there saying that I understood why people call you that name, that is why i used it. and native, after spending some time looking at some of your posts i understand now that you dont post as native do you? you post as MINDY. the person who got kicked off? yes. now i understand because of the language you used. and that was also why von went underground, because no one liked her over there. Plenty of posts and now Von you are back. I find it weird when I defended you Von, saying you were nice poster, but your argument with duro over at had long history that no one wanted to become involved with and you brought that to duro over here to cause problems and then you bring a big apology to duro, because you know how awful you were to him.
you keep spreading the rumours ladies, if it makes you feel better, try to keep me out of your little plot though.

Von, how would I know if people are men/women? I know that you are a woman and mindy is also a woman because you have said so, and von, really. i retract that I ever thought you were nice, you arent. I've never been disciplined von, and you know that, if fact you frequently called me "Miss Prissy knickers" if you want to be correct, saying to me that I always sit on the fence. right? oooh my. you are turning out to be one horrible woman. you go girl.

I'd like to state, thank you to maxi, who on mentioned a few months ago I was a nice poster. Von , 9/11/09 11:13 PM

you see von, you cant be one person, stating the above (which is correct) and then write such rubbish when it suits you. Von, I think you are ATR actually. that's the way you off load your anger. funny.

referring to the tennis, to federer fans, some new photos of federer practising at IW on his facebook page, if you havent seen them already.

clearly von, you meant , when i defended you when others were being mean, NOW, i see I was wrong. move on von, and be good.

homos: am trying to talk to you and dodge the grenades, v. difficult! Have replied on Fed/Sport/Year blog. But re: sport psych 4 Andy, doubt if it'll happen, Scottish men are even more "buttoned up" than English, when it comes to feelings.
deuce , 3/7/10 9:20 AM

really deuce? that's too bad. he urgently needs one...yesterday!!!

as for that pre-final tactic, only the deniers will say that was no ploy. hmm pretty obvious. but.. he who walks on water can do no wrong. as the competition thoughens, other tactics are required. the years of easy dominance from lack of competition are over. desperate times call for desperate measures-from lavatory stunts to mind games. never ceases to amaze.

we might have to take leave to dodge bullets or find another thread...

so you have a new best friend. i feel threatened ;)

homos, homos: over the months we have consoled and comforted each other, made and chucked water bombs and had sane, civilised conversations. How can you doubt my loyalty?? We'll surely find somewhere to chat at IW, I think.
PS I now think GoMuzza is torres9. I note a certain similarity in his remarks about Rafa. Did you think atr was torres?

deuce: this is creepy. today, i actually was thinking that gomuzza is torres9 and that gomuzza could also be atr. but i also had one more user in mind who i thought was atr - ragavendran - not sure you were here when raga was here, last year i think. same style as atr. i smell an academic thesis in this!!

ok wasn't doubting your loyalty but confess it was a sour joke to play on you!! looking forward to an IW chat with you!!

von, you are a liar and you know it. from now on i will completely ignore what you are trying to say and to do, you've done this before and i hope that you will be found out. you work on carrie, she will be easily convinced. it doesnt bother me. good luck to you von.

homos atr is von. everyone knows that.

i forgot to say carrie. I always try very hard to be a fair, objective poster but i have quickly learnt here that people dont like objectivity, they like to have a go at "weaker" posters (hence attacks by you, von and native). I know that I am a reasonable poster,i also know that people with disabilities are less favoured because sometimes they dont produce the fancy words or long epitaphs that are created by others posters. i dont need to do that, nor to justify myself. you belong in the same category as von and mindy. i dont post as maxi on , i think i mentioned before, there is a max over there which perhaps they mix me up with. i am madmax on and have always been fair, had the odd joke now and again, but mostly the nastiness comes from these two. and that's it.

i have to give it to you von, you actually are very good, so let's put this right on this comment, shall we?

'You have attacked the writers by telling them to leave and poters as well. How dare you. As a result of that, i decided to stay away from '

i doubt whether someone of my lower calibre von, could ever keep a trap like you away, one poster - mem, i referred to and said "do go away" - how is that insulting? you really use words in a very strange way von. but this is not good for me as i want you really to take your centre stage as you do love the limelight dont you? (claps).

I hear that federer is also up for another sporting award, so will try and get the link for federer fans and post here later today. cheers to federer fans.

I hear that federer is also up for another sporting award, so will try and get the link for federer fans and post here later today. cheers to federer fans.

maxi , 3/7/10 12:27 PM


Don't tell me he's won the Smug Of The Year award?

no, you win that carrie because you are just so smug.

here's something from crunch sports for you to read

Pressure to protect ranking points will be mounting in the upcoming months.

There will be a lot at stake for Rafael Nadal at the BNP Paribas Open from the Indian Wells Tennis Center at Indian Wells, California. Nadal is the defending champion from 2009 and as a result he has 1000 points to defend, points that are scheduled to drop from his total on March 22nd, 2010.

Currently Nadal is ranked 3rd on the ATP tour with 7520 points and he could quite easily drop below 7000 points after Indian Wells. Depending on how Andy Murray does at Indian Wells (he was a finalist last year) we might see Nadal slip back down to 4th on tour.

While nothing major will happen to Nadal's ranking in March, April and May of 2010 could be a different story.

Those two months will see a lot of tour ranking points at risk for Nadal. On April 19th 1000 points are scheduled to drop from Nadal's total from his win at Monte Carlo in 2009. On April 26th 500 points from his Barcelona title are scheduled to drop off as well. On May 3rd his 1000 points from winning Rome last year are scheduled to drop and finally on May 17th 600 more points from his finals appearance at Madrid last year will be at risk.

There's also 180 points from his quarterfinals appearance in Miami last year that will be at risk soon but Nadal could defend those.

However a large chunk of the other 4100 points for the five other tournaments (Indian Wells, Monte Carlo, Rome, Madrid, and Barcelona) are in serious jeopardy of going undefended as Nadal's form is not the same now as it was at this time last year due to his nagging injuries.

Let's say Nadal protects 1000 of those 4100 points with a mix of quarterfinal and semifinal appearances. That would likely drop him down to about 6th on tour heading into the French Open where he is currently priced at -110 (10/11) with Paddy Power.

There's a lot of pressure on Nadal to reproduce his efforts from last season starting with Indian Wells. He could do it, especially when he plays on clay, but it will not be easy for him as he is not the same player as he was a year ago.

But old habits die hard and a lot of people are used to betting on Nadal. However, smart bettors should be looking for opportunities to get good odds by betting AGAINST Nadal in the next couple of months.

Start by taking Roger Federer in the futures market with Ladbrokes to win the 2010 French Open at +250 (5/2) and look for updated odds on the Indian Wells tournament which should be released in a matter of days.

maxi if you have to read articles like this that state the obvious then there is no hope for you. What's the next 'breaking news' you would like to share with TT.

carrie, i think you have stated on a number of occasions that there is no hope for me. thank you again. secondly, i posted this for you to read in good faith as i thought you would be able to comment on the ranking points of nadal and whether you think he has a good chance. i dont downgrade rafa the way you do roger, but if you want to take it another way, i suppose it is because you are so used to being horrible about roger that you cant understand why someone would want to have a proper talk about rafa's position. the one paragraph that i should have deleted was the last one as i got this from crunch sports which i read every now and again, along with thousands of others. what i was interested in carrie, was the ranking points and the movement of the players, to have a discussion about that. i was obviously wrong to think that you could possibly have a decent discussion about this.

so to any other rafa fans out there, please would you comment on the ranking points and enter into a mature dialogue. would be nice. thanks.

also, carrie as you rarely post about rafa (recently it seems to be all about roger), I thought you might want to discuss - clearly i was wrong again - there really is no hope for me at all is there?

maxi, as you say, this is a Federer thread, so I don't know why you have posted an article about Rafa on it. You are constantly telling me to keep off 'Federer' threads. If you go to other threads, you will see that I do post a lot about Rafa.

Anyway, what is there to discuss about rankings, everyone knows that Rafa has a lot of points to defend this first qtr of the year which is testament to his achievements last year, winning everything in sight until his knees got too much for him to play through the pain, and what a dismal time Federer had during that same period. I suppose you think that is all grease to Federer's greatness, that he did so badly this time last year.

There is nothing anyone can discuss about the rankings without looking into a crystal ball, which with all the will in the world is fantacy anyway.

maxi: saying Von is atr, now you're just being silly. Just not her style to hide behind another moniker.

deuce, you clearly know her better than me, so we'll just leave it there. the discussion is boring now. i dont know what a moniker is?

carrie, please dont judge roger on rafa threads and vice versa, you do enough of it on both threads, and i posted it to rafa fans that wanted a discussion, not you, who seems to be roaming around with a mission right now. i dont want to discuss it with you as you take things the wrong way all the time. you are not the spokesperson for every single rafa fan out there, you are one person who has a view which you expressed in your first post when i posted this in good faith and now you are backtracking. you'll probably come on here in a few minutes time to shout again, that you arent backtracking - *yawn*. what do you mean "grease" to federer's greatness. I dont understand this phrase at all. I've never heard it before. In fact, I dont really want to know thinking that it's probably something unedifying anyway.

I think the points system is very interesting carrie because it can change so quickly between the top 4, which is why i find that it do federer well to play as much as he can, even if he doesnt win IW or Miami, to get the ranking points. With rafa/novak, there is not too much between them, and if rafa should win, then i am wondering if he can regain no.2? that was all, but you see things from a really defensive angle all the time, i am tired of explaining valid reasons, i'll leave it people who want to fight with you because you seem to enjoy this. i dont. It's sunday, a time to enjoy tennis and have great discussions. not today with you though.

@ maxi, stop posting here buddy. i am beginning to think that anti-fed's are just keeping all the personal insults here after the original argument got worn out just to keep this less than complementary blog to fed floating. Don't contribute if that is the intention. i will now on refer to these people as anti-fed's than rafa fans because they are more obsessed with finding faults of fed than with supporting or speaking about rafa. All i see them talking about is fed and if anybody introduces rafa, they say that there is nothing to talk about and that everyone knows that etc.. So my conclusion. So sadly it is fed fans vs Anti-fed's now.. Wish i could get some afa fans here. i started posting here because I like discussing tennis and in my new office i haven't found many tennis fans.. i used to always follow TT and enjoy the discussions but never take part or even register for well over 3 years zi think now.. I used to enjoy the healthy to and fro between fed fans and rafa fans.. As lot of tennis fans say even now that tennis needs rafa, so i think that TT needs rafa fans. Ring out the anti-fed's and ring in the rafa fans.And if there are still people among you who are just rafa fans and not anti-fed's, take a leaf out of your own hero's book and try to emulate his respect for fed.

As for the post about ranking maxi, I still think that rafa is going to go into FO as atleast the 3rd seed. He just has too much of an aura on clay to be easily beaten even when not 100%. Also it would help him that players like delpo etc who is a force on clay is injured..So my crystal ball says that rafa will take it to the quarters in IW, do well in miami and might even beat fed in a final at Rome. Then we can all go into FO all charged up! I confess my secret wish is to see fed win a 4 setter over nadal at court phillip chartier in the final!! So i guess i am going to be supporting nadal through this clay season. this is my apology and explanation in advance to fed fans. i always used to support nadal in every tournament till the final anyway :) then of course nobody hates nadal more! :) Even maxi you must have noticed how awesome rafa is when not playing fed haven't you?

Seeing as this thread has generated about a billion posts, all of them unutterably predictable too, let me just say this and this only while you are all staying tuned:

HAPPY 50TH BIRTHDAY, IVAN LENDL.

[Cheryl, what's Czech for "Vamos"? Maybe you can insert it here for me.]

FedistheGOAT,
I think I will abbreviate your name to FING (Fed is not the goat).

FIG,

thank you for your post. I absolutely do agree with you. Rafa is awesome. and I have missed watching him play. I have also missed watching del potro play and andy roddick also, as it's been a while with their injuries.

For the first time in a long time, I watched the livestreaming of the davis cup with serbia and sweden. I saw nalbandian play against sweden. He has really slimmed down and i was really surprised how well he played, he was so powerful, and i think will be a contender in future tournaments, am not sure whether he is playing IW, but he looked in really great shape in davis cup.
And FIG, yes. I am going to try really hard and go to Roland garros this year. I havent been to any tennis tournaments live, ever and i think i really must make an effort. but for me, to hear that federer is recovering well, well i wish him all the very best along with everyone who has a great heart in tennis. he is the true master for me.

not long now.

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me right back in ..."

375 posts and still no sign of slowing up and -- suh-prise, suh-prise -- no consensus achieved. Hey just because we agree to disagree doesn't mean we can't keep posting the same blather over and over again, right?

OK, a few salient points:

1.) Thanks for the response Cheryl. I just wish the insight had been a bit more, well, insightful. I knew as much about the award as you did; I was hoping that we could get some quotes from someone at ATP to not only define what the award is supposed to stand for but also about the actual voting process (and even the results of the vote). As I mentioned three weeks ago (three weeks we've been on this crap), NO ONE KNOWS if Fed won the award because he got more than anyone else but with a non majority vote, or that he won even though MOST PLAYERS voted that he WAS NOT the best sportsman. Most "sportsmen of the year" awards go to those who achieve greatness, not just those who exhibit the most gentlemanly of play. I assumed that ATP's was for the latter, but perhaps achievement does come to bear, which is why a Fabrice Santoro didn't win or wasn't nominated or whatever. Guess we'll never know.

2.) Native, although I nicked part of your post to call out those who won't quit this thread, I wasn't specifically calling you -- or even Rafans out -- but everyone. NO ONE will let this go. I'm sorry if my words made it appear that my intention was just directed toward you.

3.) von, maxi, et. al., please take your other-board drama somewhere where someone might give a flying fig about it. This ain't . No one here cares what anyone posted about anyone else on any other board. This is a forum to discuss tennis, not flame wars between Internet puppets. Kthxbie.

thanks for your advice senorplaid. will do.

@senorplaid

Just posting this again since you seemed to be asking for the criteria:

The criteria for the award-

The player who, throughout the year, conducted himself at the highest
level of professionalism and integrity, who competed with his fellow
players with the utmost spirit of fairness and who promoted the game
through his off-court activities.

It is very concise and Fed easily qualifies and hence the reason that most fed fans feels slighted by this blog. There is not one point of the above that some obsessive fed haters exhaustive lists manages to repudiate among these criteria.

The nominees were-
Roger Federer
Ivan Ljubicic
Carlos Moya
Jarkko Nieminen

Only the nominations are based on the criteria and after that, the players are allowed a free vote. only players inside top 1000 are given a vote and is counted only if they respond within the stipulated time. The number of votes cast for this award this year was 764 but the distribution is not known. Further data was up on the ATP site during the week of polling but then was replaced by the winners. people who will not get sleep unless they prove their point that fed does not deserve it can wait till next year same time to be disappointed.



If you look at the criteria, it does not mention that emotions are not allowed etc etc.. For everyone who keeps talking about the 'incident', fed apologized for it publicly and to the umpire and that was the end of it. Players didnt mind it and for the hundredth time his peers voted for him, this is not a critic's award. this is an award to show how the peers judge a player and over the last few years there is no one who commands more respect in the tennis world. Period.

FEDistheGOAT, i read your above - thanks. there is a problem in that this thread keeps going round and round. fed was fined. people need to move on from it. fed won the award fair and square. and deserved to win it. he has earned the respect over the years and one incident isnt going to sway anyone'sv vote. as you said, it's not a critics award. peers voted for fed and thats what matters.

The nominees were-
Roger Federer
Ivan Ljubicic
Carlos Moya
Jarkko Nieminen

Of course this was a no contest, whoever chose the nominees made it clear that there could only be one winner amongst that lot.

Federer also won Best Sound Editor for Avatar at the Oscars!

How many times did we see Moya and Nieminen play last year, for crying our loud, and Ljubicic, yea put Ljubicic against Federer and guess who the winner is. This is just confirmation of the rigging of the whole process.

skip ...
skip ...
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maxi,

I have stayed away from here in an attempt to avoid further pointless argument. However, after coming back and reading your post using my real first name, I have to tell you that I have not given you or anyone else here permission to reveal my that information. That is inappropriate and a violation of my rights here.

If you wish to continue trading insults, that's your business. I have no wish to discuss anything further with a person who has a vicious personal agenda to disrupt this site at any cost.

Do NOT use my first name again. Your posts are started to sound more and more hysterical. Get a grip on yourself and respect the privacy and wishes of members of this site. There are other people who know my first name, but do not reveal it out of respect for me. Whether or not I post under another name on another site, is not the issue.

I will say this one final time. This is my last warning - do NOT use any reference to me other than my screen name. If you persist in trying to cause chaos on a site that you personally have trashed in a very unfortunate manner on another tennis site, then I will have to leave it to the administrators to decide if your posts should be deleted.

Senor Plaid,

Thanks for your kind words. I have stayed away for a day or so, in an effort to avoid the excessive personal nature of this discussion. However, I did want to respond to your kind words.

My respect for you is a given. Now I will exit this blog and try to find calmer places in which I can once again discuss my real passion - the sport of tennis.

von and native/mindy, please stop this. it's so silly. we are here to discuss tennis, so just lets get on with it. dont make things up. dont call me names because i dont enter into fights with you over there, and thats the truth.this is your signature tune.this is what you do.i dont know why,but i suppose you see it as having a stronger nature. who knows. native/mindy, i am not an hysterical person at all.you seem like that to me, it's a bit strange really. not used to people who react in this way. but then i suppose we have to get our temper in somewhere. i'm not vicious at all. that's such an inappropriate word. enough now please.

native: seriously, the only option is for you to totally ignore the posts you don't want to reply to. look for the username and SKIP it altogether. the person has deliberately used your name again and if you don't want to be drawn into another personal attack, skip that person's post from now on. you guys are never going to agree anyway.

MAXI
"I am going to try really hard and go to Roland garros this year."

I think it's too late unless you buy your tickets in some commercial sites where prices are abominable. Philippe Chartrier tickets were sold out completely early in February. Suzanne Lenglen tickets - early in March. Right now there are no tickets for the show courts. Normally when the "start of sales" is announced (this year it was February 5) the best show court tickets are swept within 5-6 hours. Now only minor-court tickets are available as far as I know.

hellloooo, Maxi :))

and once again for the 300th and whatever it is post: Federer deserves all awards he's given, absolutely!

absolutely! MWAH zoey. Say it girl! :)

Hen,
thanks for that.i hadnt realised they had gone. will still try,sometimes they are sold from other organisations so will have to do some digging. thanks for help anyway.

sky! biggest hellooooo and mmmwah! right back to you.

It is disappointing to know Delpo did not get the Laures breakthrough player award. I thought he did enough to beat Nadal and other top 10 players multiple times and win a major by defeating 5 time US Open champion in the 5th set to get the award.

That's a great result for Serena and also for her USO nemesis, Kim. I know delPo must be a little sad about not getting the breakthrough award, as Rafa managed some years back.

Never could understand why Rafa didn't win the main award for his incredible 2008. Admittedly the AO title didn't come until February 2009 but taking RG '08 without dropping a set and then deposing the ATP tour's Sportsman of the Year at SW19 was pretty special, no? I mean, Roger Federer has at least three of those main Laureus awards, maybe more. I think Rafa would be good value for at least one.

Any more tour time-outs, though, and we have to settle for seeing him take the Kim award some time in the future.

The Break-through Player of the Year went to Tom Daley a 14 year old diver from the UK who did very well at the Olympics. I think Delpo is a little bit too old for this award.

carrie: did daley really do well at the olympics? i thought he didn't perform that well and there was some spat between him and his older synchronize diving partner - or was that some other world championship event i'm confusing it with?

homos, I think it's just the fact that he qualified for the olympics at the age of 14.

Tom Daley finishes eighth in synchronised diving - Beijing Olympics 2008
Tom Daley's dreams of an Olympic medal in his first ever Games were shattered as China produced an awesome display to claim gold in the mens 10 metre synchronised diving.


By David Bond and Anita Lonsbrough
Published: 10:45AM BST 11 Aug 2008

Daley, who at 14 is Britain's second youngest ever Olympian, and his partner Blake Aldridge showed no signs of being overawed and produced a respectable display but were outclassed by a field including strong pairs from Russia, America and Germany.

Daley, who has become one of the stars of these Games and woke up to find himself on the front page of the China Daily's Olympic supplement, and Aldridge finished eighth and last in a contest won by China's Yue Lin and Liang Huo

thanks carrie. amazing of course to qualify at that age.

To "nugz" and everyone else - Federer did drop the "f" bomb at the USO final. He said as clear as day: "DON'T FU*KING TELL ME THE RULES". It's clearly audible in some Youtube videos and I heard it live. This must have distracted DelPo (a guy who idolizes Federer), who went on to lose the very next game on his serve (hitting two df's) and the 3rd set. This behaviour adds to the fact that Federer did not shake the umpire's hand in Doha (yes, Doha, there is a youtube video of it) after losing to Murray, and again in Miami after losing to Novak, where he also smashed his racquet. Also, let us not forget the crying display at the AO that must have taken a little from Nadal's victorious moment. I agree with the writer of this article: Federer did not deserve this award for 2009.

samdaman, your right. who said you were wrong? do you know why the incident happened in first way? because delpo BROKE THE RULES. took more than 10 seconds to challenge. AGAINST THE RULES sam. we all know what the rules are. so let's see both sides of the story please. have you seen all the incidents since then of top 5 players smashing racquets? over and over. Federer? once and people still go on about it - just shows what a rare event that it was.

Getting back to The Boy Daley, which right now is more fun than Roger Federer Is Sportsman Of The Year And I Must Be Missing Something, we need to remember that the Beijing Olympics took place in 2008, not last year. Yes, Tom Daley and his diving partner split up and there was a lodda pain et cetera. But last year the youngster won a world title in one of the individual disciplines at age 15. This explains the Laureus breakthrough award.

Not sure how old Rafa was when he won his, but he was surely at least 18?

And, while they do have a comeback prize, in my view they ought to have an Indian Summer award, too. Martina would have bagged a handful of those, bless her. It seems all too easy to make your mark in diving, ice skating and gymnastics, for example, when you're a super-pliable 'tween. Give me a champion with a bit more life experience, puh-lease!

There are a few female Nadal fanatics in this website who are so dedicated to him that whenever something good is not happening for Nadal in the Tennis court, take every opportunity to attack Federer. They have almost no or very little knowledge of the sport, all they care about is the outer appearance of the player and say or write all trashes to elevate him, directly or indirectly.

It's disgusting to read these types of articles in a good tennis forum such as this! Surely worthless pieces of trash writing by some mindless ignorant writers, which is not even worth a look.

then why did you read them? you must be equally a mindless, worthless, ignorant trash!! if anyone doesn't know about sports, it's you. all of your posts do nothing but hail fed as the faultless god and trash rafa. find a mirror!

solitudine, I heard that Federer's fan shop has run out of blinkers and rose-tinted glasses, and I'm sure you've got some of those. Your Federer is an underdog to Rafa, because he can't beat Rafa to save his life, unless Rafa is injured. These 'ignorant' female Nadal fanatics also know that Rafa made Federer look like a beginner at the FO in 2008, when Roger could hardly win a game.

It's a shame that some of Fedfans are so virtiolic because he is trailing Rafa in their H2H, Federer himself knows that he has to play his heart out to beat Rafa, but he still gets on with Rafa, and he doesn't deserve fans like you.

At least you acknowledge that Rafa's 'outer appearance' is something to write home about, and if some fans like that, eat your heart out, and start your own forum for Rafa Haters only, and ban anyone who knows a good thing when they see it.

VAMOS RAFA!

Oh by the way solitudine,
I think you might even take issue with this blog by Kelli, because you obviously think the following blog is inappropriate:

The X-Factor: Rafa in the raw

2009-08-06 15:32:15


At the end of July, tennis chatterbox John McEnroe bellyached about the "post-Wimbledon lull". Truth be told, the "lull" of recent weeks has more to do with the fallout of a Nadal-starved Tour and less to do with an under-attended US Open Series marred by a mediocre draw in Indianapolis or Los Angeles.

While I'm on the subject, the annual player commercials were released to signal the start of the US Open Series. At first I wasn't too keen about the "It Must Be Love" tag-line, but I changed my mind right around the 16-second mark during this video:

Rafael Nadal
?It Must Be Love?

The above promo contains something informally referred to as the "X-factor," which loosely translated means: "a hard-to-define and/or inexplicable but invaluable special quality." You cannot buy it, develop it, nor teach it. You either have it or you don't. Nadal overflows with it, and in a nutshell, the Tour needs him.

__________________________________________

You see solitudine, Rafa has it all. Apart from his prowess as a tennis player, he also has the X-Factor - you can't buy it, you can't be awarded it, you've just got it! I appreciate that it must be galling for someone like you who doesn't like Rafa, to have to stomach all the adulation he gets, never mind, that's life!

VAMOS RAFA!

@carrie, sigh how much more will you dish out? Supporting rafa is not = Blasting fed.

rafa is inferior to roger in terms of slams : using your thinking carrie, Rafa "trails" roger by 10. 16:6.

maxi , 3/13/10 9:14 PM



You see, you Fedfans like to dish it out, but you can't take it. Maxi, you feel that you are perfectly in order to say Rafa is inferior to Roger, but blow your top because I said Roger is the underdog to Rafa. You and FIG totally ignored solitudine's post, and attack my response. The fact that she suggested that fans of Rafa only like his looks and are ignorant about tennis, implying that Rafa has never achied anything in tennis, was perfectly OK by you. I had to really take it to her that Rafa is not only about outward appearances, and must even be better than Roger because he beats Roger regularly. Now, you may not like to hear that, but it's the truth.

Maxi, you spent time isting all the people that Rafa had lost to since Madrid last year, so I in turn listed all the matches Roger lost last year, and he was not that much better than Rafa. If Fedfans stop running everyone else down as if Federer wins everything and never ever loses to lower ranked players, then a lot of this sort of argument will not take place.

carrie, you are completely wrong. again. i havent read solitudes post. i read yours and YOU called roger inferior to rafa.our conversation is YOU and ME. I listed for the FIRST time rafa's losses because I didnt understand YOUR post, I asked for explanation because I didnt know whether I was wrong, if rafa had beaten (I think you said soderling? or gongzales?) and I thought if anyone would know it would be you? there is NOTHING in my post except trying to "be informed". You then went on and on about wiping a smile off my face - unacceptable to me - horrible even - and was only when chr18 and i think FIG or gorafago put you right. I NEVER run rafa down. I think he is lovely,sweet man.so dont misplace me all the time.i'd like another apology from you please.

@carrie
the reason i chose to reply to you and not to solitudine is because his post alluded to rafa fans and not to rafa himself. What he said is correct and even you know, there are such fans here whom i prefer to call the 'anti-feds'. Their only concern is attacking fed. That said, there are fans of fed, murray etc also who attack other players.

You took a post directed to rafa fans who were blasting fed and used it as another excuse to blast fed even more. That is why i sighed and tried telling you that attacking fed in no ways translates into supporting rafa in anyway. Those two are close friends and respect each other.. What would you prefer? That their rivalry ends up bitter like what we saw of Pete-andre today?

When someone like Gomuzza attacks rafa left right and center, you easily ignore, but the moment anything is said about rafa fans disrespecting fed and that being offensive you have to post about how 'mediocre' a player fed is and show stats of whom he lost to. He is 28 and, for the sake of tennis sense, understand that his priorities are GS now and he is executing his plan, so your stats of losses elsewhere means nada to him.

maxi, do you think that I should copy your post and report you to the Federer fan club because you said that Rafa is inferior to Roger?

Just think about the things you say, and accept that not everyone is enarmoured by Roger, and that liking Roger is not synonymous with knowing about tennis.

carrie, that's fine. am happy for you to do anything which makes you feel happy. go to the other thread, have inadvertently posted a message to you as "tiamaria" my name on apologies. I had originally registered a name here as "tiamaria", but never used account,instead used for
cheers carrie. my mistake.

same for you and rafa carrie. i used to like reading you posts 6 months ago, when i joined here.you were my "first" friend.made me feel welcome. :(

cant we have a joke once in a while? and share some humour?i'm not brilliant at them, but we dont have to be serious all the time. It was this thread the way, not the other that I posted as "tiamaria". so you can read it above. am going to watch some tennis now, so see you later.

FIG, solitudine was suggesting that no one could possibly like Rafa because of his tennis, it was all about his looks, so I had to point out that it can't be all about his looks because he has a healthy h2h against Federer. It's unfortunate that Federer got caught up in it but I had to make that point.

About listing Federer's losses in 2009, it was in response to maxi who took the trouble to list Rafa's losses, ignoring the fact that Rafa was injured for most of last year.

If only people would accept that you can know about and like tennis without being a fan of Federer's, all will be well.

carrie,it doesnt matter. your sounding like my mother.
she doesnt listen either. read my post carefully.i
t does make sense.are you ever going to listen to me?stop trying to think there is some ulterior option.its plain and simple.i wanted to know more information so i wasnt misinformed.

carrie any reasonable person will see that you are absolutely spot on!! no fed fan will chastise solitudine for that disgusting post but all hell will break lose with the feds if you dare retaliate to it!! the blinkers don't allow them to look at the cause of the problem. they can dish it out - you know, trash rafa and his fans - but when it comes to fed being criticised even with reason in a discussion, it's disgusting, trashy, ignorant, whatever. it really says a lot about certain 'types' of fans, doesn't it? everyone has to hail the mighty fed who walks on water as being the perfect gentleman and sportman. if you don't, well, you know zero about sports. blinkers are a blessing and a curse.

Exactly homos. Federer himself said in his pre tournament interview that once Rafa is back on the courts, he is going to be tough to beat, I said that Roger knows that he has to play his heart out to beat Rafa when he is playing 100%; those two statements are saying exactly the same thing, and I was pounced upon as if I had committed a sin. Players refer to themselves as underdogs in relation to other players that they think have an advantage over them, but OH NO! who gave me the right to say Federer was an underdog to Rafa. Fedfans present Roger as some kind of deity who should always be worshipped, and adored and anyone who doesn't do that is ignorant, and can't know anything about tennis.

Tennis is a sport to entertain, it is not rocket science, and it is not an institute researching a cure for cancer. I don't know why some people try to make it out to be some kind of intellectual passtime, where entertainment has no place. The personalities of the players play just as much a part in the sport as the game itself.

All Rafa's female fans are automatically seen as only attracted to him not to his tennis, whilst Roger's female fans, are supposed to be the serious type who just love him for his game but are not particularly attracted to him as a person. This, of course, is not the case. Knowledge about tennis is not the criteria by which I want to be judged, I know who I am, and I don't have to justify myself to some of these people who have probably not achieved that much in life, that they think knowing the difference between a backhand and a forehand makes them intellectuals.

very haughty of your carrie. how do you know making a generalisation that "probably" people have not achieved much in life. bad statement.

"This, of course, is not the case. Knowledge about tennis is not the criteria by which I want to be judged, I know who I am, and I don't have to justify myself to some of these people who have probably not achieved that much in life, that they think knowing the difference between a backhand and a forehand makes them intellectuals".


carrie , 3/14/10 12:01 PM

did you read roger's interview carrie, when i posted the link? would you like to answer my request i made earlier last night? i'll come by later and see. try not to be too judgmental and attacking carrie.

maxi, here is the answer to your question:



There are a few female Nadal fanatics in this website who are so dedicated to him that whenever something good is not happening for Nadal in the Tennis court, take every opportunity to attack Federer. They have almost no or very little knowledge of the sport, all they care about is the outer appearance of the player and say or write all trashes to elevate him, directly or indirectly.

It's disgusting to read these types of articles in a good tennis forum such as this! Surely worthless pieces of trash writing by some mindless ignorant writers, which is not even worth a look.

solitudine , 3/13/10 4:45 PM

carrie, i agree that disgusting trash writing isnt worth a look, but i was having a conversation with you yesterday, and posted a link which i would be interested to hear what you have to say. Roger and Rafa, a lot of sweet love there from Roger. I wanted you to hear what he says, and then perhaps you wont be so horrible about him in future. have you seen it yet? link is above. thanks.

maxi,
it's no good just looking at one side of the coin, my post was my response to solutudine's soliloquy saying how disgusted he is to read worthless pieces of trash in a good tennis forum by some mindless ignorant writers.

To me tennis is a hobby, it's my relaxation. As far as intellect is concerned - been there, done that, got the T-shirt, I don't have to prove anything to anyone.

I will continue to post whatever I like, so long as I am not breaking the rules of TT, if some people find it annoying, then I suggest that they skip over my posts, they don't have to read them, everyone is free to decide what they want to write and what they want to read.

I repeat, knowing the difference between a lob and a volley, and being able to count to 6, does not make anyone an intellectual.

maxi, I can't find any link to a Federer interview.

carrie, i'm here now :), you've had me on the runaround again!

I really dont think that i do look at one side of the coin. i think this is you. (sorry, but you do snap and attack a lot). i dont like getting into arguments - this was between you and solitudine - if i felt that it needed a comment from me, i'd get on to it. some people become even worse though, so sometimes, best to leave well alone.
anyway, this is the link, which i posted on the other thread. you have 2 videolinks. First one Roger. I would ask you that you listen carrie. I mean, really LISTEN. It's only just over a minute. there is another videolink underneath from rafa, which isnt as good in my view. This is why I lover roger federer so much. the way YOU would have it carrie, sometimes, is that he doesnt respect rafa, or you turn things around that dont match the roger federer i admire and respect. so, on this occasion, for once. try to Listen. and if you are around later this afternoon, then post and i'll check in later.

maxi I referred to this interview in my post at 12.01 pm today, so what am I supposed to make of it, I don't understand.

Sorry, I pressed 'send' before I finished.

Roger said in the interview that everyone has been negative about Rafa since his injuries, but he knows that when Rafa is back on the courts he will be tough to beat, exactly what I said that you took objection to, that Roger has to play his heart out to beat Rafa when he is playing at 100%.

You shouldn't have got involved in my response to solitudine's rant, because it appears that in your eyes a fedfan is never wrong, but if you don't know the whole story leading up to a post, it's best not to get involved.

carrie, the joys of misunderstandings. i was NOT having a go at you for your post about this "bit". the way i see it, you choose all the time to discuss h2h, all the time.in my view, it is ONE part of it. whether you believe me about the above doesnt bother me,just that we both have to understnd that words, black and white,sometimes dont convey what we mean.i didnt see your earlier post so will check now and read it properly -(just read it, now back), the post at 12.01pm is MY post carrie, i can only see this bit which i did respond to which i have cut and pasted:

"Your Federer is an underdog to Rafa, because he can't beat Rafa to save his life, unless Rafa is injured".

So not true, and disrespectful carrie. why dont you think that roger has pushed rafa so much that he has had to drive his body to the limit? their rivalry surpasses so much in the tennis world and you disregard that. "to save his life". Umm. roger is the best tennis player in the world.

" These 'ignorant' female Nadal fanatics also know that Rafa made Federer look like a beginner at the FO in 2008, when Roger could hardly win a game".

you discuss FO. I agree. Rafa is superb on clay. the best (or was).

So, lets talk USO 2008. please face it carrie. rafa has not got further than SF in USO.He hasnt won ONE USO. Not one. so he trails federer here. fact. why dont you praise and admire roger here?

"It's a shame that some of Fedfans are so virtiolic because he is trailing Rafa in their H2H, Federer himself knows that he has to play his heart out to beat Rafa, but he still gets on with Rafa, and he doesn't deserve fans like you".

yes. remember.he still gets on with rafa. remember also that rafa has to play "his heart out too". remember that, so when you attack certain fedfans (you are right, i should not have got involved with you and solitudine, am sure he/she can look after themselves), remember, we are not all the same.

I do feel that you are not a good rafa fan though carrie.you attack too much and you dont realise you are doing it.

When i read earlier posts from you (another thread), discussing roger's dress sense! how can you discuss this with rafa's grandad brown shorts? worse than the lime green top/blue check shorts. My grandad wears rafa's tennis shorts, but he is 76 years old, so there is a big difference. you are quick to remark on roger's dress sense, but when it comes to rafa, you remain silent.

am going to watch indian wells now, so have a nice evening.

All Rafa's female fans are automatically seen as only attracted to him not to his tennis, whilst Roger's female fans, are supposed to be the serious type who just love him for his game but are not particularly attracted to him as a person. This, of course, is not the case. Knowledge about tennis is not the criteria by which I want to be judged, I know who I am, and I don't have to justify myself to some of these people who have probably not achieved that much in life, that they think knowing the difference between a backhand and a forehand makes them intellectuals.


carrie , 3/14/10 12:01 PM

DITTO!!!!

*yawn*

F4T, welcome back!!!

Don't worry about maxi, his yawn-o-meter is always working on overdrive.

nice to see that you and fan4tennis are making up after your terrible disagreement months ago, doesnt surprise that she agreeing with you. (one of you had to do it, and it would never be you, because you are beyond it.

would you like to answer my post carrie? dont just reply to my above one, just woken up, so i yawn sometimes when i see boring, repetitive words.

typical of fed fans to stir up trouble. chr18 and torres on other threads and here from someone who obviously can't stand rafa fans getting along.

i notice there's no yawn for boring repetitive attacks at the likes of chr and torres, only towards rafa fans an any opportunity. the more certain fed fans post, it becomes increasingly clear their purpose for being on tennis threads.

fft nice to see you back! stay! this site needs more posts of substance.

Four hundred and thirty-seven. Come ON, people, let's go for the full five hundred posts on here.

I'll keep it going by asking this: who, among leading players, do you believe is most likely to believe in free will?

For my part, I'd have to go with Nikolai Davydenko. My reasons, sadly, shall go unprinted just in case there's a sense-of-humour failure here at TT.

Next...

:) gorafago

homos - :) as well. smile.you might like it. i yawn sometimes, like stu does, i picked it up from stu and thought it was great response. early morning, boring post, yawn.it works.

Thank you carrie and homos for your welcomes. As I stated in my first post back after over 6 months, nothing has changed. Same people saying the same things 200 different ways. My second post back, I just agreed with carrie and still was attacked for that...LOL....nothing has changed from that person!

Roger is the GREAT MAN. Roger is the classic greatest. LOVE Roger

RogerLove,

dont worry. you seem worried. everything happens for a reason. just always stay positive about everything. it's the only way forward. all federer fans know that. roger is loved worldwide. forever. he knows this.

when roger inspires other players, as a fan, it makes me love him even more. RogerLove, this is for you:

STUTTGART (Reuters) - Justine Henin was inspired to return to tennis by Roger Federer and the decision was rewarded on Sunday when she beat Australia's Samantha Stosur in the final of the Stuttgart indoor tournament for her first title since her comeback.

It was the Belgian's first tournament on clay, her favored surface on which she has won four French Open titles, since she ended her 19-month self-imposed exile at the start of the year.

Henin, runner-up at Brisbane and the Australian Open in January, won 6-4 2-6 6-1 to end Stosur's 11-match winning run.

"I never thought I would be back here," said Henin in an on-court interview. "On clay, it means a lot to me."

"When I saw Roger Federer winning the French Open (in 2009), I had a lot of respect. That brought back the fire that wasn't there anymore.

"It's been a lot of work to get back and it's not over."

Henin's victory came less than a month before she is due to return to Roland Garros for the first time since winning the title there in 2007.

A break in the fifth game was enough to give wild card entry Henin the first set against the world number 10.


I hope Roger reads this from Henin.

OK, I'll add my thoughts to help push this thread to the 500 mark.

Whilst being able to admire his tennis abilities and marvel at his ability to stay at the top of the game for so long, I have long had difficulty with Roger's habit of denigrating, with what can only be described as patronising comments, the prowess of any player who has the temerity to beat him. Having been No.1 for so long he exudes an air of entitlement to win every time he steps on court. When he is thwarted he resorts to petulance or the downright bad behaviour Cheryl refers to in her article. Although it doesnt fit the image he likes to portray, trashing his racquet or bad mouthing the umpire occasionally is perhaps understandable: but what is not acceptable in my book - and is definitely unsportsmanlike - is the way he flings the water bottles over his shoulder without looking to see if the ball kids (who he expects to scramble and pick them up) might first get hit by them. This happened in Miami last year and again last week when he was in the throes of losing to Gulbis.

So who got sportswoman of the year?........Serena, i hope!!!!!

.......and Federer f-bombed the day after Serena did!!!!!!......but with Serena being black...........that just was NOT acceptable!!!!!....huh?!!!!

well i have read the article..
and now i know what people mean mean when they say "cheryl, do you write a bad blog??"
because this is as good a blog as i have ever seen..
properly highlighting the facts without denigrating the player concerned..
so cheryl, now i'm really a fan of your blogs as well.
as for my personal thoughts on this..
when he got the sportsman award, the same thing came to my mind..
i thought why this year??
are the authorities fools?? (i did not know that this award is selected by players)
but now i know how he got this award..
and it is just as cheryl asked..
why is it a sportsman of the year award when it is at the end of the day an atp favourite player of fellow players award..
of course there are a lot of particular and general incidents last year to show the guy was no saint..
and don't bring up the crap that he is human so he will make mistakes..
everyone out there is human..
i don't know of qurrey but i have not seen the giant karlovic ever swearing and i have seen a quite a number of karlovic's matches..
as of fed of course he had a horrible temper back when he was younger
i remember in 2007 wimbledon final the guy was like mcenroe incarnated when in the 5th set a hawk eye call went against him..
but due to the controversy surrounding hawkeye, that thing got downplayed..
and yes at wimby 2009, the guy had 15 written over his jacket.. you call that arrogance, don't you?? not ideal sportsmanship..
same match, while he was making a victory lap sort of thing and roddick was sitting distraught on his chair, had fed been an ideal sportsperson, the guy would have gone an atleast said something to him or a minimum gesture of sportsmanship would have been nice..
and in the interviews, he said an absolutely insensitive comment to andy saying andy don't be sad i did not win it myself last year.. did he forget that he was a 5 time champion then who had his first taste of defeat and andy was now a 3 time runner up who was so close yet so far..
crying when you win is fine, but crying when you lose and thus spoiling the best moment of opponent's life is not ideal sportsmanship..
if he was an ideal sportsman, he would have spoken less in the presentation but won't have cried..
that was bad sportsmanship, just not the flow of emotions..
so federer has shown himself to be not the best guy around and though fed will get a 8 out of 10 as a sportsman there are few who will get a 9 out of 10..

p.s. and this is mostly from last year..
he has done so many such deeds when he approaches defeat in the past 7 years..
since he does not lose much, we do not get to see all that.. simple

clayking: wait for the flak to start flying again - it doesn't pay to even hint RF could be less than perfect. Like for many people, it is the preening, arrogance and smugness that gets up my nose too.

Monalysa: with respect, Serena's outburst was in another league by miles. I dont believe for a moment there were any racial connotations: I think because of her high profile they made an example of her to send out a message that such abusive behaviour is unnacceptable and brings tennis into disrepute.

ed, there is nothing that a federer fan can do to disagree with your hugely biased comments above. you dont like the man.your call.yes, if he were that bad he would not be voted sportsman of year award for 5 years,BY HIS PEERS.

clayking you should see the full interviews of federer where he praises his opponents, especially rafa, it is when you choose to concentrate on the negative that shows the character of a person. federer is a great ambassador for many, around the globe, of awesome talent, awesome character, beautiful person. RF is no less perfect than RN. I am a proud federer fan, to be living to watch him play, there is no better.
you have a choice Ed. dont watch him if he annoys you so much. this is what i dont understand, if you believe he is this person and it irritates you, switch off. it is when you choose to complain, yet you have a choice to do something about it? I suppose he is like north/south pole to you. you cannot help but be attracted to watching him. there can be no other reason. RF is not perfect, but then who is? You?

Clayking,

I don't have as harsh a view of those events as you do (obviously) - infact, I downright disagree with some of your assessments. I agree with you on one point at least, however Fed didn't deserve the award that year. As much as I like him, there were players who were better sportsmen in 2009.

This is now in the past now, though, and I don't realy believe this topic should be reignited. It has 448 comments. Pretty sure this topic has been examined to death.

@ed...
had i been around when this blog was written, i could have then and there presented a long list of events where fed showed his other side..
when fed loses the guy is not the best one around..
it is a different matter that he hardly loses and so remains happy, and in happy state shows his goody goody nature..
but true sportsmanship is taking defeat in one's stride or knowing how the mid of your opponent works when he/she loses..
fed is unable to do that..
and the prime example was in wimby 2009 finals post match presentation, which i have written above..
he highlighted his example to compare his and andy's state..
a clear case of someone who just thinks about himself..
of course these are odd cases but they still happen..

p.s. despite all this fed will get 8 out of 10 for sportsmanship.. the only problem is as i mentioned above, there are people who deserve 9 or more.. and therefore there are many who deserve this award better, especially if it has the name of that great man attached to it.. i mean edberg..

guys please read what i have written in my post script..
8 out of 10 is not bad marks...
it is amazing for a person who has had such success
but there are people who should get 9 out of 10..
i mean tell me one incident when rafa has shown bad sportsmanship..
maxi, can you tell me one incident..
ofcourse if you are telling an incident, mention any incident after 2005..
because before that rafa was a teenager..
karlovic for once..
one incident where he said an f bomb??...
gonzalez any one incident in your memory where he behaved like jmac??..
and the names continue..
perhaps there are so many players outside top 100 who may be great sportsmen..
yes fabrice santoro, now that is a sportsman..
and after fed came he never got the award..
the problem is because these guys are not that popular as fed..
so they do not get the award..
other players do not vote for them..
and that is what cheryl said..
at the end of the day this becomes a player favourite award..
as for fed, i can give many more instances of his sportsmanship..
but as you said everyone makes mistakes..
80% of tennis players makes more mistakes than fed and are worse behaved than him..
but there are 20% of tennis players who make less mistakes in behaviour and spotsmanship..
and this award shoud go to one from this 20%.

p.s. the bottomline is fed did not deserve stefan edberg sportsman of the year award.. what he got was an atp favourite award..

clayking, i could mention TWO incidents from rafa nadal, but i behave with dignity here and meaningfulness, and belief that tennis is full of sportsman and sportswomen who are role models, great people, good people who mean others well, who have good wishes, who give back to society, a natural cycle. i dont like crudeness,unedifying remarks about others, and for federer - for me - he is a wonderful man, ambassador, respectful (mostly- because he is not perfect, only God is).

rafa is not perfect, these two incidents posted by an earlier poster (i didnt know about those two incidents before i read what this person said and posted), when i read people (like you), (like ed), who want to dwell on the negative, that "small %" where everyone (me,others), can get things wrong, tennis players are no different. I had my conversations on this thread much earlier about what I thought and if you are that interested (which you arent, otherwise you wouldnt have made comments above), am not going to waste critical time repeating. you'll get the thread up to 500 plus am sure, when you attract more non-believers and more people who want to see worst. this is their forte/their strength, not mine. enjoy your conversations with them. it'll make you happy, i am sure.

maxi,
fed is a great guy..
an excellent ambassador for the game..
a good sportsperson who behaves well MOST of the time..
and an excellent human..
i know that because he was the first foreign celebrity to visit India in 2005 after the tsunami incident that claimed a huge number of lives and did his bit to help the affected people..
so i know that guy is great..
but my point is he does not deserve this "STEFAN EDBERG SPORTSPERSON AWARD" because there are some people who are a little bit better than him..
for example guys like sam querrey, ivo karlovic, fabrice santoro (in the past)
i know fed is a great guy but the reason fed won this is because he is more popular among his peers due to being so famous..
now i hope you agree with me when i say that this award named after a true gentleman should actually go to the BEST AMONG BEST??
and unfortunately there are a very few guys who are a bit better than fed..
so as cheryl says, this award is more like a popularity award..
and there is no one more popular than fed

@clayking
which part of india are u from?

i live in northern parts of India(new delhi) but i belong to southern parts..
if you have heard of kerala, i am from there
(it is a famous tourist destination often known as GOD's own country)
and tsunami did hit there..
but fed visited a fishing village near chennai, capital of tamil nadu (kerala's neighbour state)..
it was worst hit place in India during tsunami..

@clayking
i know what kerala is. (malayalams ur mother tongue then) Even tho i currently reside is aus, my parents originate from sri lanka, so i know a bit about countries like india(which is our only neighbour)

you told me once tj that you are from sri lanka..
still it is a formality on my part to tell you in case you did not know..

so tell me, did federer learn how to play cricket when he visited india? :P

well i do not know that..
as far as i remember, he tried his hand at it.. :P

clayking, respectfully, you cannot impose your opinion on the actual tennis players, fed's peers who voted for him. your argument is with them. they voted whether you agree with it or not. of course cheryl has the same opinion as you, that is why she wrote the blog! and yes, i knew about federer visiting tsunami. not many people did. there was a something in swissnews about it at that time. blue bands were handed out to "spread" the word and help in the aid process. you just have to accept (whether you like or not), that the players on tour, "fed's second family" know him better after spending time with him, day in, and playing "fair". They are the experts. not me, you, or cheryl.

imo opinion, if someone is nice on court, but is a total jerk to all the players off it(like in interviews or in the locker romme)-he doesnt deserve the sportsman of the year award.

tj, roger is great on court, gives more than any player, time in media pressers (on average 45 minutes and is willing to speak to them in different languages to help the reporting process), he invited rafa (when he was injured), to have use of his plane (with netjets), there are many incidents, read agassi's open, or strokes of genius two locker room incidents where fed was nothing but class, (so reported as one of reporters was let into locker room, after wimby 2008 and wimby 2007), fed is great in interviews, his peers admire and respect him, reason why he won award again. am not going to comment on this thread anymore, because i repeat myself too often.

maxi,
i asked a small thing..
do you believe this award should go to the guy who is actually the best of best sportsman??
if you believe so, then tell us how could this guy get it for six years ...
1.he lost to Canas TWICE in 2008 and he said that the drug ban should not have been lifted (even though it had been more than 15 months). Would he have said that if he had won? sportsmanship..
2. When he lost to Djoko in Montreal he called the loss insignificant -is that how the ambasador of the game reacts about a defeat in masters 1000??
3. He was scheduled for an interview with Bud Collins after the French, but skipped on it because he lost to Nadal, to the dismay of Mr. Collins. sportsmanship..
4. At Wimbledon he was practically going to explode because Nadal was killing him in the fourth, saying words like "s**t" and asking for Hawkeye to be turned off! real sportsman
5. He has slammed his raquet (not long ago) in matches against Nalby, Nadal and others when losing.ok that can be excused because those were his racquets..
6. When he lost a point to Murray in Cincy in 06 he belted the ball into the stands... so caring about public.. sportsmanship.
7. he refused to shake the hand of umpire not once but twice (doha 2009 vs murray, miami 2009 vs djokovic).. real role model..
8. He pointlessly interjected himself after a Karlovic Wimbledon match, saying Karlovic didn?t play a real tennis match after serving 40+ aces.since he could not touch the serves, he grumbled even after winning.. sportsmanship..
9. at wimbledon 2007, where he got peeved at the hawkeye and then Nadal hit a ball well past the baseline and Fed angrily called out at Nadal "CHALLENGE THAT!!IT WILL PROBABLY BE CALLED IN!" sportsman in truest terms..
10. there are a lot more but i will conclude by saying u.s. 2009 was the best of 'em all..

well maxi, if you want to read more, you can read through comments above.. there will be 10-15 more incidents like this..
now a guy who grumbles every he 2nd time he loses(Thank God maxi he loses so less).. ain't he the sportsman of the decade???.. and now if you ever get time, compare it with stefan edberg.. you will know what most people here was hinting at..

now on the hindsight if you are of the belief that irrespective of all this, fed should get the award solely because over 99% of guys who play tennis and do not posses the capability to irritate him vote for him, you are entitled to your belief..(he gets irritated only when he is losing and 99% of them can't even touch his serve)..

it is now upto you what you believe..

p.s. i am damn sure you cannot find five arguments like this against karlovic, querrey, santoro, blake, hrbarty etc., etc. etc...

my apologies tj..
i knw fed is an amazing guy..
but i had to present all this to prove there are people better than him who deserved sportsmanship award..
true fed will win everytime there is an atp popularity award..
but not a sportsmanship award because there happen to be few better than him..

@ clayking, tj Dunno abt Fed but know Rafa tried his hand at cricket courtesy Kris Srikanth when he was in Chennai. Hit a few into Marina beach too :)

@clayking superb comment................
Rog doesn't deserve it, these signs are not those of a sportsman accept it...........
its beyond arguement anyone who disagrees is mentally unsound.Its no use trying to
justify such abominable behaviour...

Hey guys. we only have to wind Maxi up a bit more and the 500 mark will be reached!

There have been a lot of racquet smashing so far this year, so there will be quite a few contestants fot the Sportsmanship Award 2010. The Racquet Smashers 2010 now have to go on and fulfill the other criteria like swearing at the umpire, and crying at a presentation ceremony; but to be sure, they will also have to throw in a toilet break when they are on the back foot, and shout 'challenge' with their back turned to the umpire.

Quite a lot to ask of anyone in one year, by hey, it's been done before, so it's achievable. The only one I think could be an uphill struggle, is working their way into a presentation ceremony.

Nice one nadline: But you forgot the good sportsmanship skill of being able snivel non-stop throughout your post match presser because you've lost a match which of course was not your fault: it was windy that day.

Phew! think this brings the score up to 470 - only 30 to go.

ed, yes of course we have to add excuses and smugness. Quite a tall order, so it looks like a 7th award in sevenconsecutive years is on the cards.

if i may add...
how about saying needless comments about women's game??
or calling other players lucky when they win??
does that count as a criteria??

ed251137 et al : just for you, go to: Guardianonline/ tennis and look up "Roger Federer fires in some verbal volleys at Rafael Nadal." You'll find it...um..interesting...

duece, thanks for the link.

Roger on Rafa (Guardian online)..............

"I suppose he is the No1 on clay." He supposes right, of course, and the sledge-hammer sub-text, in any language, is that Nadal should not relax for a minute in Rome this week, especially as he is in the same side of the draw as Federer.

Now we know who should not have relaxed.

clayking, the criteria is getting more and more daunting, so I'm afraid a 7th consecutive award is very much on the cards.

ed, this line has opened up a whole can of worms, so this thread will hit the 500 mark, but be prepared for the bragging that only threads like this reach 500 because of who it's about. Never mind the content.

deuce , 5/4/10 1:24 PM The Telegraph had a similar take on this episode. At least not all sports writers are as gullible as the majority. Or perhaps they are hobbled if their journal/newspaper takes advertising from the likes of Nike, Rolex, Gillette etc.

btw: Whatever happened to HEN who seems to have disappeared after posting the link to that hilarious compilation on delicious.com. (hen, 2/26/10 5:31 PM) Only came across it last night and I'm still rofl-ing.

Nadline: I'm banking on Clayking providing some stats when, if ever, the line is drawn on this thread: e.g. who posted the most comments; percentage of people agreeing or disagreeing with the thesis; how many comments were off-topic; how many times it went full circle and then started off again; how many times the same argument(s) were trotted out. And maybe Cheryl could award prizes for Best Comment, Worst Comment, Silliest Comment, Most Pointless Comment, and so on.

Thank you, ed, for pointing back at Hen's posts.
The first two links and the last one in it still work. ROFL!
Some of the items from the last link clinch the deal: it would be indeed POLITICALLY INCORRECT to deny such a gracious winner the Sportsmanship award.

A couple of samples, if you please (from that link):

It was, a former Wimbledon star told me yesterday, "the most graceless acceptance speech I have ever heard." (Wimby '09)


Sublime tennis player, great champion and all that, but did he really have to accept the Wimbledon trophy in a jacket with "15" embroidered on the back and "RF" on the front? It's not the chutzpah in having had a jacket made to mark your 15th grand slam title and stashing it in your bag just in case, it's having the bad taste to wear it at all.

How to square the relentlessly nice guy his opponents could not bring themselves to dislike with the Federer who seems so eager to separate himself from his peers and clinch his distinction as the greatest ever at a moment when his nemesis has been conveniently sidelined by an injury?

"Winning in) Paris and Wimbledon showed that I was unbeatable. " [ ok, so conveniently forgetting how he almost lost at RG several times last year, by his own admission, and conveniently forgetting that the only other present era player to win both competitions, in beating a certain someone in the finals, was not in his way ]

I was struggling with the sun coming in on the side and I was hoping for the sun to go down," Federer said. "You are allowed to have two toilet breaks and I never use them. I had to go to the toilet too. But all I was looking for was one point to make a difference - and sometimes it does. I knew I had time on my side. I always feel I am superior in the mental and physical side against Nikolay."

OK, I'll stop there. There is so much more.

Usually I keep quiet on this so obvious topic. Couldn't help myself today. Perhaps it's because Roger, like Novak, hinted at the start of MC, that Nadal may be vulnerable. Is it possible, I've been wondering, that Roger thinks that this is the year he will beat an in-form Rafa on the dreaded red?

@chlorostoma
He has to think/believe that, otherwise he has already lost that match. Read this article. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article7114021.ece It talks about other players and attitudes etc

@tj
I've just read the article and of the top of my head can think of several inaccuracies in it. And I'm not that knowledgeable. When writing an article you want to pick a strong point and present it strongly. In this one I think he overstates the point that Ferrer felt defeated before the final against Nadal even started. I watched that final and Ferrer fought very hard. If I were a Spanish player who's lost many times to Nadal (even if having defeated him when he was much younger) I would say the same thing to the press, no matter how positive I might feel about my chances on a given day. I would not say "I have as many chances to beat him tomorrow as he has of beating me." Similarily I did not see Verdasco give up against Nadal in MC: he fought hard throughout, even after repeatedly lifting his hands as if to say "what do I need to do to earn a point?" he still continued to fight hard and play excellent tennis.

@ed..
well when i read that post of yours where i may have to give you these stats, i thought to myself,"why not?? i was called in house statistician by vrael. why not be an in house statistician?? anyway i don't have much to do since my holidays are going on. ok, i'll do it" ..thanks ed for the idea..
then i prepared this list of comments in 3 hours.. it is my first effort at such a statistic and my apologies if there is any discrepancy in numbers.. this list takes in all comments till chlorostoma's comment on 5/4/10 at 4:43 p.m.
here are the rankings, no. of comments and name of posters who have said the number of comments..
1. maxi
89 comments (sure speaks a lot)
2. carrie/nadline
70 comments
3. vamosrafa
38 comments
4= nativenewyorker, vamosrafa
23 comments
6= homos, torres9
22 comments
8. lulu
19 comments
9. cherylmurray
18 comments
10. clayking
11 comments (including this one :P)
11. niloofar
10 comments
12. nellie
8 comments
13= senorplaid, tj600
7 comments
15= hen, deuce, jyannis
6 comments
18= cable, ed251137
5 comments
20= gorafago, tennislover, sky, zoey234, vmm, champion7
4 comments
26= rickydimon, maya, raven55, vmk1, leenyc, jayson88, namI
3 comments
33= kelli, nugz, deborah, jaycee, fan4tennis, chlorostoma, tennis2010, atul1985, gomuzza,
2 comments
42= spadea, 10sfan, chr18, imjimmy, memi, bedforfall8000, bjawad, stu, fedexfan, jessica4stein, zare, landy, rafterfan, bolobol, smr, samdaman, solitudine, tiamaria, rogerlove, monalysa, jaskarans
1 comment

-in total there were 62 different posters
-2 comments were repeated

ed, compiling the rest of the statistics was tougher, but i have done something to the best of my abilities(rough estimation)..

-no. of off topic comments which had no relation to anything of the topic above= 45.. 6 out of them were about sachin, 6 about roger's visit to chennai, about 10-15 were verbal volleys between maxi and nadline, in 4-5 others came in to support maxi or nadline, 2 were by gomuzza, and some more..
-there were 62 posters, out of which 25 agreed with the blog(including our 3 experts), 31 of them were against it while 6 of them did not express any view about it.. (this number has a good probability of being wrong because i was not sure what 2-3 of them wanted to convey)
-it did not go full circle, but twice it was nearly over before it came up again.. the culprits of digging it up were zoey234 and rogerlove..
-i could not compile the list of how many times the same argument was trotted out. told you..my 1st attempt.. hence not adept enough.. :P

trivia
-the most effective comments were from homos.. after he started out, a lot of fed fans went quiet..
-the most extreme posters were maxi( could see only fed) and nadline (not as extreme as maxi, but the most extreme of nadal fans).. lulu was not far behind maxi..
-most pointless comment was a tie up between gomuzza and rogerlove.. but i will give it to rogerlove becaue she wrote like someone retarded who just had to put the thing there.. gomuzza did same but s/he was atleast funny..

that is it ed..
hope you find it nice..
and of course more comments will flow in i guess after this..

p.s. reminding you guys again.. this is my 1st time doing this on the request of ed (and since i have a lot of time to while away) and hence not pinpoint accurate..
so apologies if anyone finds a discrepancy..

clayking:Wow! Wow! and Wow again! What an effective post. This comment might be thought to be off topic, but what the heck!

Hilarious ... but my wish is that Roger lose it on court more ... he may have to give up the 'Sportsman of the Year Award' but it would be infinitely more fun to watch.

I'm with you, smr, I don't mind if Roger loses it on court with a raquet or swearing to himself... so long as he does not mouth off the umpire or is rude towards the ball girls and boys. Because then I think that he is acting like a spoiled teenager rather than showing the class suitable to an embassador of the sport and someone earning as much as a CEO of a large corporation - those people tend to behave well in public. But this is still small potatoes to all the immodest, unclassy and even very disrespectful things he has said so often in public recorded televised or utube-ized interviews. I couldn't care less whether he thought things privately. But since he otherwise projects the image of and behaves like a gentleman, why not censure himself in the name of civility, honour, respect and maturity, let alone being a good role model? It is those frequent comments especially that have made me be a fan of his playing but not so much of his public behaviour. Hence he might well deserve the politically correct popularity award but not the sportsmanship award.

smr - LOL, quite. There's something the tiniest bit furtive about watching Federer melt down. It feeds into the already voyeuristic appeal of tennis.

clayking, congratulations for hard work well done. It is very interesting to read the review of how the discussion has gone so far. Yes I did have quite a few tit for tat with others, but I've learnt that it is so futile, because no one is going to convince anyone to change their views.

Roger seems to have learnt a few lessons too, because despite his dismal performance since OZ, he hasn't smashed a racquet, or even taken a toilet break. I can see that he is going to have trouble winning the Sportsmanship Award this year.

nice soft sarcasm, nadline.

Roger is the classic greatest. LOVE Roger

Roger
Favorite. Continuousness of Seven year (Record)
Sportsmanship award. Continuousness of six year (The ATP player's vote)

clayking, 5/4/10 6:16 PM That was a pretty quick response. Well done that man.

No real surprise who headed the league for most posts - except I was expecting a much higher percentage than that.

Also thought there were more than 62 taking part. Interesting the 25 'for' and 31 'against' result was quite close in the end.

I've noticed before that Homos can be very effective when he joins in.

I find the dynamics of these extended threads fascinating. I know it is a subjective and non-scientific analysis but I thought it would be fun to assess the results.

Thanks for all your hard work.

Newcomer of the Year (voted by ATP players)
Horacio Zeballos

Comeback Player of the Year (voted by ATP players)
Marco Chiudinelli

ATPWorldTour.com Fans' Favourite(Singles)
Roger Federer :record seventh consecutive year

ATPWorldTour.com Fans' Favourite (Doubles)
Bob & Mike Bryan :fifth straight year

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Media/Videos/2010/02/ATP-Un covered-S2-E6-ATP-Awards.aspx

Newcomer of the Year (voted by ATP players)
Horacio Zeballos

Comeback Player of the Year (voted by ATP players)
Marco Chiudinelli

ATPWorldTour.com Fans' Favourite(Singles)
Roger Federer :record seventh consecutive year

ATPWorldTour.com Fans' Favourite (Doubles)
Bob & Mike Bryan :fifth straight year

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Media/Videos/2010/02/ATP-Un covered-S2-E6-ATP-Awards.aspx

Roger Favorite. Continuousness of Seven year (Record)
Roger Sportsmanship award. Continuousness of six year (The ATP player's vote)

great Roger


Roger is always basically well-mannered. Roger is always quiet. basically.


Basic time is always kept to.


In sickness and injury. Roger never doesn't retire. from 17-year-old


Contribution to longtime tennis. Contribution to longtime Charity

Should respect it.


Always Roger is popular also among the player. It is natural.


Roger is the great person.

Roger is always basically well-mannered. Roger is always quiet. basically.

RogerLove , 5/5/10 8:42 AM




'Basically', being the operative word.

Oh dear. Maxi seems to be sulking and not playing her part in reaching the target!

Never mind. RogerLove is doing her bit and clearly intent on holding on to the Most Pointless Post Award.

Nadline and Carrie: keep up the good work. Your lol contributions make my day.

well well i never thought that i would get to study such a wide range of emotional disorders on tennistalk..
but here i see extreme possessiveness, hysteria, delusion, fed addiction, nadalphobia, clayphobia, amnesia and what not!! and most of 'em in a single person..
i just hope this person does not suffer from posttraumatic stress disorder..

Too, too funny clayking. But oh so true. I cant stop laughing. It definitely has my vote for the Funniest Comment Award and probably the Best Comment as well.

Not sure about PSD, but definitely a victim of Multiple Split Personality.

clayking,
thank you for the huge amount of work on the stats: very insightful ... and entertaining.

Bump.

Who would like the honour of the 500th post to this favorite topic?

I'll do the honour, but won't say anything controversial.

Congratulations Nadline on being the 500th visitor to this site.
YOU HAVE WON THE CHANCE TO STAR IN A MUSIC VIDEO WITH RAFA BUT FIRST YOU HAVE TO WRITE OUT 5000 TIMES WHY YOU LOVE HIM

What is the point now? :) This thread is still alive? And since all the rafa fans seems to be here celebrating their wins by throwin threads on fed, i take this occasion to say Vamos Rafa! he has earned me a cool 120 $ on bets.

I have nothing to add to this discussion, it is not a fan award and anyone who has a problem should talk to the players who voted and accuse them of disorders etc.

Congratulations Nadline on being the 500th visitor to this site.
YOU HAVE WON THE CHANCE TO STAR IN A MUSIC VIDEO WITH RAFA BUT FIRST YOU HAVE TO WRITE OUT 5000 TIMES WHY YOU LOVE HIM

ed251137 , 5/5/10 7:04 PM



ed, Done.

Would it be Gypsy 2? There will be many fighting me off, I can assure you.

Is this thread still alive? Wow! But i don't see a point being made here anywhere anymore. Anyway, since all the rafans seems to be celebrating their victories by throwing some ineffective mud at fed, i take this place to say Vamos Rafa and to thank him for winning me a cool 320 $ on bets :)

As for the point of discussion, this was not a fan award and anyone who has a problem should talk to the players who voted and accuse them of disorders, favoritism etc. I have posted beofre the exact procedure of the awrd after 3 e-mails to officials and enough reserach and it is clear to me that this a very unbiased and free-for-all award. the nominations are also made by players and not by officials. If the number of nominations (which can be made by any player) is more than 6 in any year, he players with least nomination voes are dropped from the list. Last year, only two players were dropped from the list due to less votes and FYI Nadal was not nominated by any player including himself.

@FED=GLOAT,

Your argument is very clear.

But with all due respect, that was not the point of Cheryl's article above. It is that point that is being discussed by many in this thread, fedfans, rafans, and others.

And what pray tell is the point? That it is a popularity award? If you go back, I was discussing this point from the very beginning, and i think I understood the point quite clearly. When sportsmen vote for an award titled "sportsmanship award", please give some credit to their intelligence and understand that they would vote for only a person who in their minds deserves it. And even if they do vote based on personal favoritism, that favoritism has to arise from somewhere and in tennis that translates to dressing room & on court behavior etc.

@FED=GLOAT,
Re-read your last comment and re-read Cheryl's argument. There are two different angles of view here. The comments in this thread are primarily related to hers, whether for or against.

@chl..

I am sorry buddy, it is you who needs to re-read. anyway I was just stopping by because I hadn't had a chance to wish rafa on his success...

Carry on with your points and counter points on an argument that never had much merit and collapsed the moment the assumption that the nomination was by an external agency is taken off. Cheers.


PS. And please think twice before undermining another person's intelligence. If you have any doubts on me not having got the point, feel free to browse through my earlier posts towards the beginning of this discussion when you were not present and you'll understand that I am not posting more elaborately on every point purely because there really is nothing more to be said in my opinion, and quite frankly i just don't have the time to argue on and on.

@chl...

And quit it with the nickname twisting, that is GoMuzza territory and i'm not sure even you would want to go there.

I chose that name because I am a self-confessed fan of both nadal and fed, but I do not want people getting the impression that I am a rafan because most of my posts on rafa threads would convey that impression, and i would just hate to fight with sincere fed fans. i don't mind a few rafans hating me because of my nick because a lot of the so called 'rafans' are just anti-feds who got a player to worship purely because he could put roadblocks on the king's path.

And before you tell me anything related to rafa, please consult other rafans whether I have been anything but supportive of rafa, even at the expense of fed most quite often.

chlorostoma: Oh dear, you seem to have trodden on FTG's corns. Some people take themselves so, so seriously.

Sigh. I come by for a look see and am accused of taking seriously a poster who charged at me for no reason. anyway, thanks ed, nice to see that animosity still reigns.

And just in case chl.. is right and I really haven't seen the point, will some genius clarify it for me concisely? Please read my posts towards the beginning before you do.

By the way ed, that is exactly what chl.. was trying to do, kudos to him/her for succeeding. People like GoMuzza could always get on my nerves very easily. My bad.

nadline: yes, you get to be the girl who takes Nadal away from Shakira. But first you have to submit your reasons and then write out the lines 5000 times. btw: Cheryl will be the invigilator.

@clayking

hey clayking just noticed your list! Kinda weird thing to spend time on during hols isn't it?? :) By the way, I have more than 20 comments on this thread, surely should have made that honour roll of yours, hmm?

One more thing, between ferrero and rafa, if you had to choose, who would you say you are a bigger fan of? If you are a she, leave out Ferrero's good looks out of the equation(!).

@clayking

hey clayking just noticed your list! Kinda weird thing to spend time on during hols isn't it?? :) By the way, I have more than 20 comments on this thread, surely should have made that honour roll of yours, hmm?

One more thing, between ferrero and rafa, if you had to choose, who would you say you are a bigger fan of? If you are a she, leave Ferrero's good looks out of the equation(!).

@FIG
OMG!!
how did i leave you out??
at the time of my analysis, you had 23 comments..
so you come at 4th!!
as for ferrero and rafa, it is obviously ferrero..
rafa is a distant second..
actually he was third, but since guga retired i put nadal on 2nd!!
n by the way, had i been a she i would have put clayqueen!! :P

sorry ed, this changes equations..
there were 63 posters..
and FIG was against this thread..
so 32 people against..

@FIG,
hey buddy,
what i believe, this way of awarding a sportsmanship award should be changed..
you yourself found out the clear process, so you should know players vote for the guys they like..
now there may be lesser ranked and less popular players who may have much better sportsmanship but miss out on award and nominations..
so this system has to be changed and should be replaced by a jury or a panel that can equally weigh all guys and their sportsmanship..
and anyway we have seen the flaws of the current system..
despite clearly not deserving it this year, he won it!!

@ i am not going to argue about the deserving part. We have had enough of that.

But if this award is replaced and made into one given by a jury, who decides that jury and honestly can you reason out a better jury than a player's own peers, the one's who actually bears the brunt of any non-spoting behaviour to judge this award?

And you are wrong about only top player's winning it.. paradon Srichappan is a multiple winner...

'hey buddy,
what i believe, this way of awarding a sportsmanship award should be changed..
you yourself found out the clear process, so you should know players vote for the guys they like..'

...All i was saying was that in the extremely competitive world of today's tennis, that 'liking' and 'respect' wouldn't come towards a player who is undeserving.

'now there may be lesser ranked and less popular players who may have much better sportsmanship but miss out on award and nominations..'

no offence, but it is easier to be well behaved when there is not much pressure and when you don't have to play with the weight of the entire world watching your every move. Which is why such awards should go to players who exhibit maximum grace under maximum pressure not to those who exhibit maximum grace under minimum pressure.

@FEDistheGOAT,
All I was trying to say in those two points is that Cheryl must have been well aware that this award is by ATP professional players. Her point was clear: did they really feel he was deserving? It is of course their prerogative to choose whoever they decide is the most deserving.

As for playing on your name, if you've read my other post I try to be respectful to all (except for calling atr something once). The play on words came to me in the moment... and it seemed to fit the topic of this thread (part of which is Roger public self-adulation). It was not really meant to be a stab at you... just a little joke on behalf of that aspect of Roger's character. I'll say it again: there are many redeeming aspects of his character besides those we are picking on here. There is a whole lot I admire in him and his life, just not those particular things that made this thread come alive.

@chlorostoma...

'Her point was clear: did they really feel he was deserving? It is of course their prerogative to choose whoever they decide is the most deserving.'

Honestly who is a better judge? A journalist/blogger or the players who play against him and are the direct recipients of any non-sporting actions? Or should a panel be set up as clayking said? i assure you that no panel would select anyone other than Roger.. if it WAS a panel then this article has credibility and i would say it is not a fair award.. but the whole process makes it very fair.. How else do you thin Srichappan won it?

As for the play on the name, I am sorry, i should have let that pass, and i did until you did it again... I mean we are discussing tennis here, why call anyone names (including the player being discussed).

@FEDistheGOAT,
Maybe I should have written the following first: I understand that the ATP players nominate and vote for this award. Of course Cheryl does too. In fact I totally agree with you that they know infinitely more about tennis than people like me. And see aspects of players in the locker room we would not know about and are generally better informed than us. In other words, I have no problem at all with what you wrote. Where we disagree a little is that you feel that because the award is chosen by them then that's that. My understanding of this article and the comments here is that Cheryl echoes the perception of many in pointing out the large gap between what such an award stands for (no matter who awards it) and all the not-so sportsmanly behaviour Roger has been displaying over and over in public. Even when he won Wimby following RG last summer... surely a time he could have been more graceful.

yes chlrosotoma, and time and time again he has shown sportsmanlike behaviour as well. plus, he actually got nominated by the ATP.(the atp nominated 4 or 5 people for the award),then the players vote for who they think is the best sportsman of the year...

tj, I fully agree with your points, as I have in my replies to FEDistheGOAT. I don't disagree at all.

The whole point of this thread is just that: that all the while Roger shows sportsmanlike behaviour very frequently he also shows un-sportsmanslike behavior very frequently. Which makes a lot of us wonder at the wisdom of having just him be selected as the most sportsmanlike of the bunch.

very frequently? Don't make me laugh.. over his entire career you can count the one-off events on one hand. Most of the top players do more in a single match.. some do more in a single game, especially if it involves more serves. It is easy to hate someone, it takes a lot to appreciate genius. Genius by definition deserves to be cut some slack... i am a talent snob and i don't mind saying it, but in roger's case, even that slack has never been needed. i know you will pull out a ridiculous list of things rog did, but frankly, only the fed haters consider them as 'unsportsmanlike'. Being frank is a quality and if you advocate only false modesty, so be it.

FED,
OK, now that we agree that he is unsportsmanlike and immodest at least infrequently... what about his unfair depictions of other players (OK, not each time but quite often)? But more to the point: the difference in perception is the heart of the matter here isn't it: have a look at the last link in HEN's email quoted by ed251137 , 5/4/10 3:00 PM
and read the pages and pages of items there of Fed's ungraceful behaviour. Some will conclude that they represent infrequent incidents where I'd say they are frequent, much too frequent; some will say they are no big geal and just not being falsely modest and I will say that they go well beyound not being falsely modest. Especially for someone that public that many would emulate.

Think of your favorite actor or author, someone you really admire. If they went around telling the whole world repeatedly how great they were at every other occasion, and if most of their public statements were self-centered would you feel you'd rather have them be more graceful?

That is where I feel so ambivalent about Roger. He is a genius of tennis, absolutely. He has worked very very hard at it since a young age. But then his piblic persona has the two sides and all the sorry: *frequent* behaviour makes you wonder what portion of the rest is genuine. I don't doubt for a second that some of it is, but doubt all of it is.

'Think of your favorite actor or author, someone you really admire. If they went around telling the whole world repeatedly how great they were at every other occasion, and if most of their public statements were self-centered would you feel you'd rather have them be more graceful?'

Try Nietzsche, Ali etc for size. :)

And please understand that he is allowed a sense of humor, a lot of those self-aggrandizing statements only sound so when taken out of context - they were said to mock people who were speaking too highly of him.

By the way, i am not comparing fed in anyway to the examples quoted above.. neither is he a loner and above all humans, nor is he the self-proclaimed greatest.

He is simply a supremely-confident man who is trying his best to be a great husband, father, tennis player, ambassador for the sport, human being and a role model all at the same time and pulling it off remarkably well.

Try going through some articles etc on his personal life, you'll find a slightly quirky, irritatingly funny, irresistibly affable man in him. Yes, his sense of humour is not the best in the world, even his wife would be the first to agree, he plays some of the worst practical pranks ever in history, and comes up with the worst one-liners, but the fact that he completely believes that he is a born 'funny-guy' makes people laugh at his jokes then, but they can easily be twisted out of context when taken alone.

Haven't you seen the lop sided smile he has when he has said something that he thinks is just this side of 'funny-heaven' and is expecting he whole house to come crashing down at his comic genius?? He holds that idiotic smile long enough for people to actually start laughing due to the sheer charm of the man and then he walks off having reaffirmed his belief of being a genius comedian.. so the ball rolls on.

I think we're getting to the point where we should agree to disagree. I don't think that most of his self-aggrandizing statements were meant in jest. And I've read enouigh of them in the contest of the entire interview, or heard them and viewed them on TV or on YouTube. They also meshed with the statements they were often accompanied with regarding the other players and where they're at and how it was for Fed to let them win or loose etc. You and I will not agree on this point, and that's OK. Nor on the other points, e.g. frequency, etc. and that's OK. I just appreciate that we've had the opportunity for both of us to spell out what we really mean, how we really see the heart of the matter.

PS I did read a lot of Nietzsche as it happens, in the days. Very bright man, not right about everything of course, totally misinterpreted and misappopriated by the Nazi movement, completely unsuccessful with women, and afflicted with severe mental illness. Still, some of his writing was of the most disarming lucidity and directness.

Cassious Clay... well that's a whole other kettle of fish.

But why not take Judy Densch as an example, or so many others among those actors and authors who are also very accomplished, successful and confident but who find no need to tell you every other day that they are the bees' knees?

clayking: No need to fret. It was noble of you to take on the challenge in the first place.
btw: Scrolling down the page by chance I spotted this early exchange:

Such a bad article.... I can't get over it
2/17/10 9:30 PM
not worth any more commenting on. bad taste.
2/17/10 9:31 PM
The boycott didn't last long. She was back 2 days later and went on to contribute a massive 17.8% of the comments (albeit many were verbal spats with Rafans) and claim the Most Posts Title.

ed, If people don't know the reasons by now they never will, and writing anything 5000 times is child's play with cut & paste, so shall we just take it as read that those two conditions have been fulfilled.

VAMOS!

@chlorostoma'
provide the link.

and @FIG
i think that the reason he got the sportsmanship award is bcoz he does stuff like sending James Blake a get well card when he broke his neck, publicly congratulating John Isner for winning his first title etc there are countless more examples on the same line.

as for ferrero and rafa, it is obviously ferrero..
rafa is a distant second..
actually he was third, but since guga retired i put nadal on 2nd!!
n by the way, had i been a she i would have put clayqueen!! :P


clayking , 5/5/10 9:50 PM










clayking,
your pen name is a little bit misleading because there is only one King of Clay and you are not really a fan of his. Ferrero has never been a King of Clay, or anyone else for that matter. So when you pull up Rafans for being less than kind to Roger, you are not being as objective as you appear. Although I accept that the name relates to you and not to the player, yet that is not immediately obvious.

Shall we put you in the neutral camp then, because your heros do not feature any more at any level.

"Ferrero has never been a King of Clay, or anyone else for that matter."

Thats one of the most preposterous statements i have ever heard. Ferrero was the king of clay for the few years before nadal started dominating. and borg was definitely the king of clay in his time..

nadline..
first and foremost, king of clay is not any official title..
it is a title given by media and analysts for the prowess on clay..
it is the title you give to the best player of clay during the given time..
certainly in 2003, ferrero was the king of clay without doubt..
and in early spring of 2004 , had he not missed out on injuries, he would have been for that year as well..
and since it seems you do not actually know who were kings of clay, here is the list from 1991..(not surpsrising since you show time and again you are all about nadal)
91-92, it was courier known so..
93 had no definite king of clay, though courier still was given the title by most of u.s. media..but bruguera was as good as courier.. and muster was coming up to get that title..
94 was bruguera vs muster.. and that year no one got the title..though many were tempted to put it on bruguera solely because he was a 2 time french open champion..
95-97, beyond any doubt it was thomas muster..
98 had no one with that title since there were a lot of good clay players, but none outstanding..
99-01 was kuerten..
02 was a sort of transition with kuerten still retaining that title but ferrero making a very strong challenge for it..
03 undoubtedly ferrero..
04 most of the latin media called coria king of clay, but many others were reluctant to put that title on coria (he could have had it definitely had he not choked to gaudio)..
05-10 well you know who!!

secondly i do not understand who you are to put me in a neutral camp??
neutral camp as to what??
neutral about me being a rafan??
if that is so who died and made you the ambassador of rafa on tt??
i can see you used the word we there.. you mean your fellow rafans??
i believe all of 'em are better tennis fans than you and know more..
as for my supporting rafa, well since he came along, i have supported him to win every match he plays, except against ferrero.. now i'm clear about it that i love ferrero more!!..
and just so you know my support of rafa extends from march 2004..
i'm sure you won't have known about the guy in 2004 march..

thirdly, it is solely my discretion what name i use.. and my name refers as much as to me as to the players i like..
because you see, except sampras and safin, every player i liked since 13 years of my following tennis has been a proficient clay courter, if not the king of clay..

fourthly it is high time nadline you stick to your business of supporting rafa than to tell others what they should do.. it is none of your business whom i, or for that matter, any body else supports.. i agree you are the 2nd best rafan on tt, but as a tennis fan, you certainly are a contender for the 2nd last spot along with a few others...

p.s. if you have any doubt,
let me make it clear..
i am a 99% juanqui-en, 80% rafan and 70% gonzo-en..
and of course a 100% tennis fan..

clayking,
I was not trying to tell anyone what to do, I was merely pointing out that your name gives a wrong impression. I understand that the title King of Clay is not official, and I have to admit that having been a tennis fan for longer than I care to state here, I did go through a period when I found it a little bit boring so I did not pay too much attention to it.

However, I did some research into why Ferrero could have been the King of Clay at any time and came up with the following from when he turned pro in 1998 up to 2003:

1 GS title
3 Masters
4 Minors

A total of 8 titles, and only defended one of them at MC. Considering he only won three other titles on h/c and none on grass, in his own little kingdom he was the king of clay, and I mean little indeed. After 2003, he has won a total of 3 minor clay tournaments.

So now that's I've established that you are not a 100% fan of Rafa's, I am no longer confused about some of your musings. I don't want to fight with you, I just like to know where people stand.

I am a 100% fan of tennis like you, but I am also very loyal by nature, and tend to stick to one thing at a time.

Actually clayking, if you are 99% a fan of Ferrero, that leaves you 1% for anyone else, but your split adds up tp 249% ????????

clayking,
As you know, in relation to Ferrero being the King of Clay once, with 1 gs, 2 masters and 4 minors, in the country of the blind, the one-eyed man is King.

hell yeah!!
you did research..
big deal!!
but did you do the simplest thing one could do??
type "king of clay juan carlos ferrero" on google??
i'm sure you did not..
because if you did so you would have found a lot of articles stating nadal to meet former king of clay ferrero or such articles..
now as far as my knowledge of english goes, you are a former king of clay only if you were once a king of clay..
i wonder what you did in your research!!

and what was more offensive is the statement tj pointed where you say "or anyone else for that matter"..
now that is a clear insult to anyone who ever held the title.. from rosewall to coria, everyone..(just read my list, if you do not know how many people you insulted, and add some past greats like rosewall, borg, vilas, wilander to it)
and the way you say it, it looks like you believe nadal is the greatest clay courter ever!!
clearly shows you are a 100% tennis fan..
and to think you must have seen borg playing!!

it beats me how my not being a 100% rafan affects you in the slightest..
or how my name gives the slightest impression of being misleading..
"As you know, in relation to Ferrero being the King of Clay once, with 1 gs, 2 masters and 4 minors, in the country of the blind, the one-eyed man is King.
nadline, 5/6/10 1:39 PM"

this comment is such a big proof that you are not a tennis fan but an obsessed rafan..
just so you know the people who called ferrero king of clay did not have your prophetic powers and was unable to see in crystal balls that rafa would come along in 3 years time..
they gave the title to juanqui because he was the best of clay in 2003..
this title is given to the person who is best at that particular time..
and it is admirable you pick on juanqui only when there were many more with that title..

p.s. i wonder what others have to say about your excellent knowledge!

To confer the title King on someone with such a dismal record on the surface, just goes to show why a lot of care should be taken in proclaiming anyone the ultimate, like - OF ALL TIME. Ofcourse they didn't see Rafa coming, they didn't have a crystal ball.

Clayking you seem to think that what other think about what I thinks bothers me in the slightest. I am here to gain friends or popularity.

oh!!
forgot to mention..
you may be the 100% rafan..
but i have been following him from six years..
from march '04
i don't think you would have been such a big fan from '04..

and yes you put some numbers out there saying about 249% for me!!
well you do have a sense of humour, i can give you that!!

corr.
Clayking you seem to think that what others think about what I think bothers me in the slightest. I am NOT here to gain friends or popularity.

Why are you getting so hot under the colar about a Yesterday Man?

To be honest, I am just pleased to be able to see where you are coming from.

nadline,
1st, when we are having a discussion about tennis, don't bring in friends and popularity..
stick to tennis, if you are able to!!
2nd you astound me!!
for GOD"s sake, make your point clear..
what is your point??

nadline, i challenge you to put down clear facts and say what do you mean, that is if you know what you mean by facts?
it is not verbal volleys!!
don't be vague..
say once and for all do you accept ferrero was the king of clay??
if you do accept it, then why did you say what tj pointed out??
if you don't accept say why??
yes, if you get out without answering, proves my point..
you are all about rafa and nil about tennis..
you have one question, two choices..
pick one and justify it..
then we will move ahead..

OK clayking. Ferrero was called the King of Clay because they did not know better at the time, IMO the only people worthy of the title are Borg and Nadal. That's my last pronounciation on this subject; I know we will never agree, so let's call it a day.

There is no need to get annoyed, you can fight your corner without getting your hackles up.

Vamos!

clayking
Lastly, when someone says King of Clay in 2010, everyone assumes it refers to Rafa, no one would think of Ferrero, that's why I just assumed that you were a 100% Rafan and was confused that he did not seem to have your undivided loyalty, no malice intended.

well...
you prove your tennis knowldege..
let me explain that the title king of clay is not given to best of all time, but the best of THAT PARTICULAR TIME!!
so at that particular time, he deserved the title..
and there have been many kings of clay simply because they were best of their time..
everyone who has been the best on clay during their time actually deserves the title king of clay..
if you want to put aside a specific title for borg and nadal, you can use emperor of clay..
no problems with that..

secondly, you say
"only people worthy of the title are borg and nadal"
so a man with 10 majors on clay is inferior to borg and nadal????

thirdly, with due respect, tennistalk is about sharing your views and arguing for your views, as far as they are valid..
to say let's call it a day without anyone proving their points is just not the spirit of tt..
accept that you made a mistake by saying these two statements
"Ferrero has never been a King of Clay, or anyone else for that matter."

"only people worthy of the title are borg and nadal"

if you are gracious enough to accept your mistake and say these were wrong statements at your part, i will call it a day!!

you stick to the statements or avoid my question..
my point is proved..
you are all about rafa!!
nil about tennis

p.s. that may be so..
but that shows that you did not think about past..
and before you posted the first statement saying my name is misleading, you could have thought about it..

clayking, YOU are all about Ferrero and nil about tennis, to be hanging on to Yesterday's Man for ever. Tennis has moved on, move with it, don't get stuck in the past.

well,
i do not have your skill in deviating from questions..
tennis has moved on??
does that mean you will insult past greats??
and you say i am all about ferrero??
can't you see i posted atleast 10 names that have deserved and held this title??
still you say i'm all about ferrero??
and you still are not gracious enough to apologise for two blunderous statements which will be blunderous be it past or present..
"Ferrero has never been a King of Clay, or anyone else for that matter."

"only people worthy of the title are borg and nadal"

come on nadline, accept your mistake and move on!!

p.s. i'm nil about tennis??? good sense of humour!! :P
you forget about someone with 10 majors on clay and then proclaim guys with 6 majors and 4 major respectively on clay as only one who deserves the title of king of clay, and still you say i'm nil about tennis??

@ tj600 , 5/6/10 10:15 AM

Here's the link from hen's post of 2/26/10 5:31 PM (which had multiple links on the subject but most no longer work):

http://delicious.com/exterminate/p(r)issycakes

clayking, I have nothing to apologise for, as you say, it is not an official title, and there is no guideline or criteria to proclaim anyone The King of Clay, and commentators are known to be very generous with the accolades bestowed on players. No one can say that anyone is taking anything away from anyone by not accepting that they were once the King of Clay, when it was an arbitrary title bestowed, maybe by one commenator, and stuck.

When Djokovic won OZ, Indian Wells and the Tennis Masters Cup in 2008, commentators were beginning to call him the King of Hardcourts.

From The Times:..................................

With that deadlock apparently beyond resolution, Djokovic, the youngest of the trio by almost a year, has done everyone a favour by gate-crashing the private party. After two years of steady improvement, contesting quarter-finals, semi-finals and then finals of Grand Slam events, Djokovic has been the player of the year thus far. He won the Australian Open - the first man other than Federer or Nadal to win a Grand Slam event since the French Open in 2005 - and followed that with victories in Indian Wells and Rome, the last being on clay.
Related Links


So now we have the king of grass, the king of clay and the king of hard courts. By every criterion, including the arcane points system by which the rankings are determined, they are a good class better than the rest. They will be contesting the semi-finals and finals of the coming major championships, and if any one of them can usurp one on the other?s domain, he can call himself the king of the game.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article404024 8.ece


This proves that the accolades can be a little bit rash at times.

@nadline
When Djokovic won OZ, Indian Wells and the Tennis Masters Cup in 2008, commentators were beginning to call him the King of Hardcourts.

just so you know, his form was so good then and better than others he deserved the title at that point of time.. he was so close to nadal in points that and majority of his points were on hards..
but this title did not stay long on him because he ceased to be king of hardcourt..
secondly this title was bestowed on him around april 2008 and fed was having his problems while nadal just did not win enough on hards..

back to clay which you are so eager to deviate from, well there is an unofficial criteria..
you got to be better than rest of the players for that particular year on clay..
and every player i mentioned has been better than their peers in that particular year when it comes to clay.. (except for muster in 97)..
so all of them deserves their titles..
there is no compulsion that you apologise..
you are not gracious enough to accept your mistake, what can i do about that??
you obviously said
"Ferrero has never been a King of Clay, or anyone else for that matter."
now ferrero has been called king of clay by everyone who calls rafa king of clay now(except you nadline).. not only ferrero, but all the players i mentioned..
but you won't accept your mistake!!

you also said
"only people worthy of the title are borg and nadal"
that shows that you are not a 100% tennis fan as you proclaimed here:-
"I am a 100% fan of tennis like you, but I am also very loyal by nature, and tend to stick to one thing at a time."
you are not even 1% tennis fan.. a proper tennis fan never insults the greatest clay courter ever and also such a big number clay court greats who made this game better..
and it does not look you will be gracious enough to accept the mistake either..
not that i expect it of someone who is all about rafa and nil about tennis..

cant agree with you more clayking. as for the king of other surfaces,i think Fed is currently the King of Grass, and was the King of Hardcourts in his prime.(there is currently no king of hard courts imo)

I've heard it all before, fans of Rafa's are not fans of tennis. What else is new.


Vamos!

"I've heard it all before, fans of Rafa's are not fans of tennis. What else is new."
you heard that??
trust me nadline, i will never say that about vamosrafa and many others because they will never say that.
"Ferrero has never been a King of Clay, or anyone else for that matter."

they will neither say-
"only people worthy of the title are borg and nadal"

and if they do say this, once they are proved wrong beyond doubt..
they would be prompt in saying they accept their mistakes..

every point of yours has been proved wrong and still you say nothing is wrong..
what temerity!!!
what is wrong is not that you said these, but that you don't accept they are wrong statements made by someone who is all about nadal and nil about tennis..

@clayking
u havent been here long, but she has said that Federer is an "average tennis player before". Its normal for her..

I have a feeling the PC Brigade will be knocking on the door soon to take me to court for daring to express my views.

there is clear difference between expressing views and saying obviously wrong facts!!
"Ferrero has never been a King of Clay, or anyone else for that matter."
that is not any view..
that is blatantly wrong fact!!
there have always been kings of clay..
its a title given to best..
once i proved it to you, you are hanging on to most pathetic excuse of being a nadal fan who is accuses by others of not being a tennis fan..
if anyone accuses you its not because you are all about rafa!!
its because you are nil about tennis..
express your views as much as you want!!
but don't say such facts which show you are an obvious nil in tennis!!
you don't even know who is the greatest in clay court and you say this
"only people worthy of the title are borg and nadal"

just so you know, his form was so good then and better than others he deserved the title at that point of time.. he was so close to nadal in points that and majority of his points were on hards..
but this title did not stay long on him because he ceased to be king of hardcourt..
secondly this title was bestowed on him around april 2008 and fed was having his problems while nadal just did not win enough on hards..

clayking , 5/6/10 4:01 PM

So does that mean that Rafa was the King of Grass in 2008 because he won Wim and Queens, more titles on grass that year than anyone else, including Federer who only won Halle? Of course not! In this era, Federer is the King of Grass and Hardcourts, Rafa is the King of Clay. You can't earn titles that easily.

no..
you cannot be king of grass by 1 year's performance because the maximum number of matches on grass a top player can play is 11/12 in 1 year..
that is why in past 20 years you just had 2 kings of grasses..
but a player plays roughly 50 matches on hardcourts..
so he can earn the title in a year..

coming back to clay, you still have not accepted your mistake..
you can go round and round and round, bring anything in, deviate as much as you want..
the fact is you said wrong facts and when it has been proved that it is wrong you have not been gracious enough to accept it..
so you can either graciously accept your mistake and move on, or run away without accepting your mistake..
of course you can keep on speaking nonsensical things endlessly, but that just reinstates my point..
you are all about rafa and nil about tennis..
a gracious tennis fan would have accepted it as soon as i proved that you are wrong..

I have NOT made any mistake. I do not have to accept an unofficial title bestowed on a player by commentators if I don't agree with it.

commentators??
when did the media of a different nations and the majority of tennis fraternity become commentators??
you certainly can't even see your own point now, because if you don't agree with the title king of clay which is bestowed by commentators, am i to believe you are saying rafa is not king of clay??
because rafa and others have been proclaimed by same people as king of clay!!

We can all make up our own minds whether we agree with Rafa being the King of Clay or not, some people might not accept that he is, and they would be entitled to their opinion.

As a matter of interest, you said: 'you cannot be king of grass by 1 year's performance because the maximum number of matches on grass a top player can play is 11/12 in 1 year..'


These are the only ones I could come up with:

Grand Slam

* United Kingdom Wimbledon (London, UK)



* United Kingdom AEGON Championship (London, Queen's Club, UK)

* Germany Gerry Weber Open (Halle, Germany)

* United Kingdom AEGON International (Eastbourne, England, UK)

* Netherlands Ordina Open ('s-Hertogenbosch, Netherlands)

* United States Campbell's Hall of Fame Tennis Championships (Newport, Rhode Island, USA)

If I had said that Ferrero had never won a GS on clay, I would have been wrong because that is a fact, that he was King of Clay is an opinion.

well about the grass thing..
most of the "TOP" players play in 11-12 matches only..
the eastbourne championships and ordina open are in the week just preceding wimby.. so TOP players, who deserves to be called king of grass opts out of it..
as for newport it begins the day after wimby is over..
the king of grass certainly won't travel from england to us in a day to play a 250 event..

as for your second comment..
it is an opinion for you..
but it is a fact for the whole of tennis world..
now i am sorry but you are not above tennis world..
so you have stated a wrong fact..
but you are not gracious enough to accept it..
so be it!!
you have insulted clay greats like kuerten, muster, vilas by this statement
"only people worthy of the title are borg and nadal"
but since you are not gracious enough to accept it, so be it..
but i cannot see your logic how rosewall who has 10 majors compared to borg's 6 and rafa's 4 does not deserve to be called king of clay..
you just don't know what you are saying..

Rosewall belongs to another age.

Sorry, I misread your reference to grasscourts, you said matches, I read it as tournaments.

Roger
Favorite. Continuousness of Seven year (Record)
Sportsmanship award. Continuousness of six year (The ATP player's vote)

Newcomer of the Year (voted by ATP players)
Horacio Zeballos

Comeback Player of the Year (voted by ATP players)
Marco Chiudinelli

ATPWorldTour.com Fans' Favourite(Singles)
Roger Federer :record seventh consecutive year

ATPWorldTour.com Fans' Favourite (Doubles)
Bob & Mike Bryan :fifth straight year

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Media/Videos/2010/02/ATP-Un covered-S2-E6-ATP-Awards.aspx

Roger is the true class. Love Roger

@The Moderators...

Am i allowed to post a file sharing link here (eg rapidshare/hotfile)? or is that a breach of rules?

I wanted to post the download link for the book

The Roger Federer Story: Quest for Perfection
By Rene Stauffer

Publisher: New Chapter Press | 250 pages | 2007-06-25 | ISBN: 0942257391
| PDF | 10.5 MB

it is just 10.5 MB and even if I can't post the links, just search on google and fellow fans can easily find the book.. I just started reading it and it is a thoroughly entertaining book and gives a new look at the man we all love so much.

Definitely recommended for fellow fed fans and tennis lovers...

FIG,

I've read this book a few months ago. It is a very good read and insightful.

Also more than a little hagiographic, but that was to be expected :-).

I think the author is trying to keep a professional distance in as much as I have read till now... But then, it is hard to to take writing a biography of someone you don't admire/idolize to an extent, so I can see how you might have got that impression here and there. But the reason I started liking it was because i expected it to be all about fed's greatness but it is more about his evolution and the people around him than about just him...

thank you FEDistheGOAT. i started to read the book. it is an interesting read... :)

Roger Favorite. Continuousness of Seven year (Record)

Roger Sportsmanship award. Continuousness of six year (The ATP player's vote)


Newcomer of the Year (voted by ATP players)
Horacio Zeballos

Comeback Player of the Year (voted by ATP players)
Marco Chiudinelli

ATPWorldTour.com Fans' Favourite(Singles)
Roger Federer :record seventh consecutive year

ATPWorldTour.com Fans' Favourite (Doubles)
Bob & Mike Bryan :fifth straight year


http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Media/Videos/2010/02/ATP- Un covered-S2-E6-ATP-Awards.aspx

Thanks RogerLove. Are you related to CourtneyLove by the way?

ROFL

They realized only now that Federer is ungracious in accepting defeat? Not only is he ungracious when losing, he's arrogant when winning too.

All the things are right .. But i am happy that atleast he is not fake and speak with his heart without filterout the things to sounds very polite to people !!

nadline, 7/8/10 8:56 PM Wow, when you see all of those comments together you realise the rest of the world have finally woken up to what a lot of tennis fans have known for ages.

"And, like the proverbial cuckold, he's always the last to know." ROFL............!!

Perhaps we will see a few less mealy-mouthed, sycophantic reviews from now on :-D

My, how have the mighty fallen.

When you're up, you can do no wrong. When you're down, you can do no right.

It's amazing how the waxing eloquent, soaring eagles of sports journalism can so quickly metamorphose into the proberbial vulture pack, feeding off a carcas. Like scavenging crows, they can't even wait till the thing dies before plucking its eyes out.

No strong feelings of support or pity for fed, just observing the observers ...

alex: I was not gloating* but simply commenting on RF's long history of denegrating players who beat him and his self congratulatory comments which have riled many people for a long, long time. I will be sad if we are now watching the declining days of Federer - but if we are then I hope he will learn to accept defeats more gracefuly.

* well maybe just a little

nadline, 7/8/10 8:56 PM: Are you planning to take the prize of posting the 600th comment. btw: what's happened to clayking - too busy working on his blog I suppose.

ed -

it's ok mate, I wasn't commenting on you, just the general flavour of the quotes posted by nadline at 8:56. I'm not saying I greatly disagree with most of them, just marvelling at how quickly a celebrated hero can be portrayed villain.

There's a lesson in it for all of us: don't base your self worth on how others perceive you. Not much danger of fed doing that, you say :)

cheryl -

I can see you're no longer a muzz fan as you would find it difficult to criticise fed for his F-bombing. I'm just relieved he behaved himself for the Queen. And demonstrated that the best tennis tends to be accompanied by sportsmanship.

ed, I think I made the 500th poster on this thread, no, I was thinking about being the 600th, and if I am it will be a coincidence.

Alex - I'm confused by your statement. I don't find it difficult to criticize Federer for dropping f-bombs at all. And I'm not sure what that has to do with Murray and his behaviour in front of the queen.

Chill, cheryl, it was just meant as a bit of light hearted banter.

What I meant was ... oh, never mind.

Roll on the US hard courts, and we'll be able to talk tennis again :)

Alex - OK. Apparently I'm slow this weekend. post-wimbledon hang-over or something.....

BUMP

i have psychic powers...really

i suddenly saw this old blog of cheryl's on the main page...saw that ricky has posted something....and the first thing that came to my mind regarding ricky's post was BUMP...hahahahahahahahaha

I'd forgotten how many comments this particular blog had. LOL.

yeah cheryl...its a record....and it wont get broken unless we have a rafa-roger GS final in the near future....these two get all of us talking...:)

Phew! When I saw this, I thought Federer had won this award for 2010.

well, it will get broken if vrael keeps posting quizzes on the Nadal-Djokovic preview...

...especially if the quizzes continue to involve good ol' ToJo

this can go to 600....

a quiz for cheryl,ricky,vamosrafa and every1 else who has time

1)there are only three players in open era history who have regained the year end world no. 1 ranking after having lost it previously....they are roger federer,rafael nadal and _________?????

2)how many french open tournaments have John McEnroe skipped throughout his career????

3)who holds the Davis Cup record singles winning streak at 33 consecutive victories???

4)Nadal in 2010 at the age of 24, became the 'second youngest of six men in the Open Era to appear in the finals of all 4 Grand Slam Tournaments. The youngest being________at the age of 22.

5)_________and Rafael Nadal are the only men in tennis history to have won at least two Grand Slam singles titles on each of the three surfaces

more than happy to answer :)

1. Ivan lendl
2. Dont know !
3.bjorn borg
4.Bjorn borg ?? becoz he achieved so much at such a young age , just like rafa !
5.Mats wilander

you got 3 out of 5 right...which is good..:)

Well, (2) Mac skipped six French Opens in his career, including the two years that I went! Details from his wiki entry.

(4) Borg never played an Australian final. Wilander never contested the Wimbledon final, Connors or Becker (or Sampras) the French. I can't think who got to the finals of all four in the Open Era at a younger age than Rafa - Mac was 25 by French Open 1984, ditto Edberg at US Open 1991, Lendl 26 by Wimbledon 1986.

At (5), do you think that the US Open and the Australian are played on the same type of surface? PLayers routinely remark on differences in speed and bounce, and it's nothing to do with the local weather - the two surface types are played in many territories. So I think credit goes to Edberg, Lendl and Federer on that front; though I believe Rafa will put himself out front by taking a second title in Melbourne and NYC before he's done. RG seems to be beyond Roger at this stage, though he's sure to keep trying.

@gorafago...help from wikipedia or any other database defeats the purpose of this quiz

regarding the difference between the hard courts at oz and uso....yes they have some different characteristics but they are essentially hardcourts(with some differences)...the surfaces at melbourne and new york still are generalized as HARD COURTS only..no matter how differently they behave,as far as i know

here are the answers:

ivan lendl
6
bjorn borg
jim courier(he achieved that at the age of 22)
mats wilander

599

600

ohh man how on earth did i forget that borg used to skip OZ!! :@ lol he only played once in 1974 i guess..how silly of me...anyway i had edberg in mind as the other option not courier so thanks for informing :)

vrael, just posting to be the 600th poster doesn't count. Lol

here is another quiz, made by me ..any one is welcome to attempt it and seeking help from wiki and other sources is not advised but if you have no clue then you can :)

1.Three men in the history of tennis hold the record of winning 7 Us open titles, name any of them

2. WHo holds the record for winning highest number of french open titles in the history of tennis

bonus qstion: how many were they?

3.Who has won the most number of hard court titles in the open era?

4.How many players in the open era have won more clay court titles than rafael nadal?

bonus qstion : name all of them

5.how many sets did rafael nadal drop in the 2007 french open?

@vamosrafa...quizes are fun...:)

@nadline...that means you are the 600th poster...congrats..:)

vrael: Those 599 and 600 entries are cheating. I'm awarding Nadline the win, which means she has scored the 500 and 600 mark award. We now want 101 reasons from her why she loves Rafa. Off you go Nadline! See you when make the 700th post D:)

Um...LOL? :D

vamosrafa,
why not also add quizzes to our runner-up thread (Nadal faces Djokovic at the US Open) ?

thts fine by me...nadline can keep the win..:P

chloro, ok i am copy pasting the same quiz there so if any one wants to answer it do it there too :)

@vrael, sure ..it is fun :)

vrael, I was the 500th poster, so I'll let you have the 600th.

ed, I'm sure I must have listed 100 reasons by now, but I'll have to ponder on the one to make it 101.

so sweet of you...:)

Quiz:

How many times did Borg bagle his opponents?
Who has won the most consecutive victories on clay, and how many?
Who won the GS in 1938?
Who is the only player to have won the Golden Slam in the same year?
Who are the only male players to have won the doubles grand slam?

Graf

^^^ in 1988. I remember this happening. Fraulein Forehand. :D

1.no idea how many bagels he inflicted , i just know he had 6 bagels to his name in RG 1980 alone
2.rafael nadal ,81
3.DOn budge
4.Steffi Graff, 1988

1.no idea how many bagels he inflicted , i just know he had 6 bagels to his name in RG 1980 alone
2.rafael nadal ,81
3.DOn budge
4.Steffi Graff, 1988
5.i didnt get the question !! :S

How many times did Borg bagle his opponents?
119 times

Who has won the most consecutive victories on clay, and how many?
Rafael Nadal 81

Who won the GS in 1938?
Don Budge

Who is the only player to have won the Golden Slam in the same year?
Steffi Graf

Who are the only male players to have won the doubles grand slam?

* Frank Sedgman and Ken McGregor (1951)

http://links.mkt1003.com/servlet/MailView?ms=MzQ2MzYyMjcS1&r=Mzc4MzcxM jg3NQS2&j=Njc1MjkwOTkS1&mt=1&rt=0


Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award (voted by ATP players)

Roger Federer: Record sixth consecutive year


ATPWorldTour.com Fans' Favourite (Singles)

Roger Federer: Record seventh consecutive year



amazing.. I did not know. The Roger has a lot of record records. haha. Nadal will become player fans' favourite next time.
He is current No.1.