Cheryl - love your blogs. This is great; Rafa and Roga have been quite a pairing; a dual; a rivalry. Love the part about Rafa and the dandelion story. Perfect. Thanks and happy new year. Let's see where it takes us. Change is a-coming. Be interesting to see how it plays itself out.

Cheryl I too love to read your blogs. They are so on the mark. It is all sad, I was always a Bjorg fan growing up as a kid and although I loved Agassi no one has gripped me as much as Nadal or Federer, and like you describe, its not just the wonderful tennis that they have given us, the rivalry, they are both wonderful people, Nadal especially is adoreable and probably the most passionate athelete I have witnessed to date, then you have Roger the most artistic, elegant yet down to earth funny guy, so relaxed, together they are magic, undescribable, and I feel truly blessed to have seen them both. great read as always thankyou!

Roger and Rafa indeed have been a pleasure. I just can't help shake the feeling that some elemental shift happened at the US Open when Del Potro beat Rog. I cannot WAIT to see what happens at the AO.

And thank you both for your kind words.

I really like your blog Cheryl. But I disagree with you. Yes, they won't meet many times again in finals but they will still meet up there may and I hope in grandslams. Even if it doesn't happen, when one of them leaves his ranking we may witness semifinal or quarter final matches between them and still it would have the same taste, coz as u said they are both marketable. Thanks for this blog cheryl.

It is the world's known greatest threat in theory that any-body sarcastically manipulating of the hardest sport just in five years, though not stating that they did so in a most revolting manner, is unprecedented perfect:
Although it is sad they shall have to make some even wiser decision due to their extreme of successes, but only time will tell, and whatever happens therein, I "congratulate" every participant, as we all have to try and enjoy what we may.
Thanks, for the blogs to the hard-done workers::

That's just what I've been thinking today. The Nadal/Fed rivalry may be soon over, at least the times when both of them were playing well at the same time. I thought we'd see an exhibition final with them tomorrow but no. Then Fed pulled out of DC so that kills that. I see del Potro taking over the hard courts if he's dedicated to train hard enough. I don't know if Fed will be able to reach the FO final given all the trouble he had getting there last year and the fact that he may have lost some of the motivation now that he has one in the bag. So that leaves Wimbledon as their best chance to meet in a GS final imo provided both are healthy enough to play. If it happens, I think it would be the match of the year.

bolbol - You're right. They might meet earlier, but it won't be the same without everything on the line.

chr - I think you might be right. Wimbledon might be our best shot at getting both of them in the final. Everything great seems to happen at Wimbledon...........

Cheryl,

Your blogs are one of the great pleasures of this site. This one will go down as one of my all time favorites. Although I am not quite ready to let go of this great rivalry, I do think their meetings may well be fewer and far between. I would dearly love to see them go at it a few more times in a grand slam final. When they come out on the court to play each other, something magical and extraordinary happens. They truly do bring out the best in each other.

I loved Borg. He was my hero. His matches with McEnroe were moments to be treasured and cherished. They were so very different and that only made their matches even more memorable. The very first time I saw Rafa, at the 2007 Wimbledon, he reminded me of Borg. I know that physically they could not look more different, but I had that same adrenaline rush of excitement that happens when you see someone play tennis as it has never been played before. I always seem to prefer the baseliners.

I never really had a favorite with Sampras and Agassi. As you so aptly said, Sampras was not the most charismatic player. He needed Agassi to provide the drama. If I had to choose, I liked Agassi's game and style of play more than Sampras. I am nothing if not consistent. It's always the baseliner over the serve and volleyer.

chr18,

This is a rare occasion in which we are in agreement. I do think that the best shot at seeing Rafa and Fed in a grand slam final is Wimbledon. What a match that will be, if we are lucky enough to see it happen!

I am not quite ready to cede the hard courts to Delpo just yet. I need to see more of him. You did qualify your comment by saying that he must be dedicated to train hard enough to make it happen. Right now there are enough top players who are good enough on hard court to give him a run for his money. I am waiting to see if he has what it takes to make it to the top. The talent is there for sure. But it takes more than just talent.

Rafa can not only be merciless and brutal on court, but his tennis seems to be an extension of his passion and emotion. There is such fire and a burning will to win. He doesn't show a lot of emotion and I like to think that he puts all his feelings into those miraculous shots that no one else can even dream about making.

I don't want to think this may be the end of the era of Rafa and Roger, but there is no denying that there are some young guns who have arrived and served notice that they are a force with which to be reckoned.

I think the days of Rog and Rafa at the top are over...they will play some great matches against each other I'm sure but it's no longer only about them. I think Rafa will continue to be a top contender....

"MOURNING THE END OF RAFAEL AND ROGER"...........??????????????????
i dont like this title.......y not mourning the end of thier era......which will be more appropriate.....and im sure thts wat you mean

Gr8 blog cheryl, really love your writing. Yes, I too think it's the end of that wonderful rivalry, that's not to say that both, or either, could still win slams, of course they could. However, not gonna be Wimbles cos that's gonna be Andy's!

Great blog, cheryl, and even as a muzz fan, I have to concede that there's nothing emerging that's nearly as exciting as rafa v. roger. Tidal shifts do not happen suddenly but, there is usually a point where you recognise in hindsight that the balance shifted. To me, the tide began to turn when nole won the Oz Open and muzz started beating roger at will, but you are probably right to point to delpo's USO victory as the point where it actually turned. For me it's a bit of a disappointment that muzz wasn't the one to emerge as the probable next No.1, but there you are, that's what makes it so exciting. That is not to say that rafa and roger don't have more slams in them - they surely do - but, as you say, a new era has begun.

alex: take comfort in the fact that our Andy has an excellent record against Delpot. if Andy stays healthy he's gonna have a gr8 year, can feel it in my water!!!

vrael - I didn't mean the end of Rog and Raf individually, I meant the end of them as a unit.

Just to be clear, I have nothing whatsoever against the guys coming up. Djokovic and Murray and Delpo are fine players all - but I don't feel the magic like I do with Roger and Rafa.

True Cheryl, I feel the same way too! Watching Rafa plays tennis, I really feels the ups and downs with him; more so when he is facing Roger. I like to watch the other three guys play tennis too, esp against each other but the feeling is not the same. Whoever wins or loses, I just won't feel the same way like I feel for Rafa. I just couldn't imagine when they (Fed and Rafa) are gone from the game, how we would feel then. Maybe certain emptiness and I know things will not be the same anymore.

Cheryl, I agree with what you say but in my guts, I'm hoping nothing will change anytime soon. First because I want Rafa to be top dog for as long as possible, well until he hangs up his racquet, but also because I think tennis will suffer, because as you say, both Rafa and Roger have been extremely good for the image of tennis, in the same league as McEnroe and Borg, so I hope they continue to do so for many years to come.

deuce -

Here's hoping:) Hopefully muzz's recent decision to shift his focus from lesser tournaments to the Oz Open (to be repeated with the other majors?) will see him coming stronger in the slams.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't cheering for that elemental shift in NY, but-

At least we had them for awhile, no? Considering it's a new decade, I'll go out on a limb and be optimistic. Perhaps it's too soon to pull the shroud over both of them- after all, Agassi and Sampras had late runs. Probably not very likely, but I'm doing it anyway- continuous hangovers make me hopeful for some reason. ;)

Kelli,

No shroud yet. Only the feeling that a Federer/Nadal final will now be a rare treat rather than the norm.

Of course Del Potro earned the heck out of that USO trophy. You would never hear me suggest otherwise. He did what Roddick could not - he believed he could win and held on to see it through. he did, in short, what Rafa has always done. The fact that somebody else finally figured out the winning formula in a slam is....well....interesting. no?

I still think Rog and Rafa are a cut above the rest of the field on grass and clay. I don't expect anyone to challenge these 2 on grass. As for clay - Djokovic/Delpo may be threats on clay but still have to make the final of RG. On hardcourts the field is beginning to look more competitive, but it's hard to conclude that just on the basis on what happened in NY. Del Potro seems to be the biggest threat to me, but he has to prove how he copes with the pressure of winning a slam and remaining injury free. Djokovic/Murray have always been found wanting on the big stage.

Even though I don't root for Federer, I would never bet against him after he made all the 4 slam finals last year and narrowly lost 2 of them to inspired players. I'm sure he'll win 1-2 slams this yr at the very least. Till late last year, it looked to me that Rafa might be the one who wouldn't hold his end of the bargain of meeting Roger in slams. However that concern is alleviated after seeing him play at Abu Dhabi in the new year. Tennis from 2003 has been dominated by first Federer alone and then later a combination of Federer and Nadal. I hope in the next few years we have competition like the late 80's or 90's where the field was deep, great champions battled together and where anyone inside the top 100 beating the other was not the mere shadow of play that it is now.

Always enjoy your blogs, Cheryl! Disagree a bit this time. I look forward to seeing more players in contention at the very top - and I'm a diehard Nadal fan!

Roger looked to be in fine form at Abu Dhabi; looked to me as if he just didn't want to make a war of it. It's an exho, he exho'ed and he was done after the 2nd set with Sod. Otoh, Rafa was in fine form and seemed happy to strut his stuff after three weeks of training following the DC. I would not discount the possibility of many more finals between Rog and Rafa. I think and hope that Rafa's learned something about his limits and I doubt that Mirka will be producing twins on a yearly basis.

To be honest, on the face of it what Cheryl is saying rings true judging by the emergence of some players recently, but when you see Roger and Rafa struting their stuff on the magic carpet in Doha, it's evident that none of the other players have the charisma that these two have to front the sport, so I hope things stay the same for a long time to come, obviously with Rafa being the No 1.

VAMOS RAFA!

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/319283-history-repeats-what-sampras -rafter-can-teach-us-about-nadal-soderling

Carrie, that is precisely my point. Rog and Raf have a certain je ne sais quoi; they're both just magnetic.

Yes Cheryl, it would be a sad day for tennis if their partnership at the top is disrupted. How apt for the two player with the special magic to play on a magic carpet.

Magic carpet "apt" :) Right, here goes ...

I hate to break in on the party, ladies, but am I not right in saying that rafa's only ever won 1 hardcourt slam - i.e. the same as nole, delpo and, for that matter, a-rod?

Rafa's power + precision game is something to watch, sure, but some people may be allowing his muscles and luminous shirts to blind them to his mortal status. Clay is a relatively small part of the modern game and if you removed it I think you'd find rafa, say, one peg above A-rod.

Fed? Well, he's another matter :)

Now I'm running for cover before the angry returns of serve :)

alex, you sure has to run for cover. Do you know how many clay court tournaments are there. They are certainly not a small part of the game. You are comparing Fed's achievement with Rafa's as of now, forgetting that Rafa has joined the ATP tours three years later than Fed. Why not give Rafa another three years to see where he will be before jumping into conclusion now. If Fed has a few clay slam titles now, will you still say that clay is only a small part of the game?

Why must people doubt Rafa's abiliity? After all he is still really young, at 23. When he reaches 26-27, we see how many hard court slams he has won, on top of his clay and grass ones, then we come and compare Fed and Rafa's achievements. If not, Fed will definitely has the advantage now, what is there to compare?

One interesting point to consider: if there are two clay slams and one grass and one hard court slam in a year, how many slams you think Rafa and Fed would have by now? Or if the AO still remains a grass court slam, how many slams will Rafa and Fed would have by now? Or even imagine that there are 6 slams a year, 2 on grass, 2 on clay and 2 on hard, how many will Rafa and Fed have by now? It so happen that Fed is better on hard and Rafa on clay and there are more hard court slams (2 a year) than clay (1 a year) that's why Fed's tally goes up faster. Of course, both of them have to beat all the other players that are standing in their ways before they can win their respective slams.

One more point to add, the grass court tournaments are really few, and by alex's logic, it is really a small part of the game. If grass is taken away, how many slams would Fed have? Nine i think, and Rafa would have five, so Fed is not too far ahead of Rafa I believe. Arguments like these would lead us no where, so please stop it.

for ALEX........barcelona,rome,monte carlo,hamburg,madrid(now),and rolland garros...are all very very prestigious tournaments......and are worth about 5000-6000 atp points......CLAY DEFINITELY IS NOT A SMALL PART OF THE ATP SEASON..and thts the truth

Wow, that was quick :)

Rafa may be only 23, but nole is 22 and delpo 21 and they have already matched his one and only hardcourt slam title. I'm not actually a fed fan, but have to admit that he is the GOAT. However, my main point is not that fed is better than rafa but that the gap between rafa and the rest is not that great - and when you remove clay there's very little at all between rafa, nole, muzz and delpo.

That's not to take anything away from rafa who is a great player and, IMO, his 2008 Wimbledon victory against fed was the greatest victory ever. Still, on hardcourts (well over half the tournaments, and 50% of slams) he still has to prove that he's above the rest of the top players. That is a fact. It is people who make claims like that who are jumping to conclusions - and let's face it, at 23 he's going to have to find another level pretty soon to achieve that.

luckystar -

I fully agree that grass is a tiny part of modern tennis, pretty much limited to 3-4 weeks in the year. My point, however, was about HARDCOURTS, which, as I repeat, is most of the season and half the slams. Remove BOTH clay and grass and the slam count is something like 9-1 to fed.

Please don't take it too sore. Rafa is a great player, he has made an incredible achievement to win slams on ALL surfaces (I thought it was interesting and refrshing that rafa and fed both won slams on hardcourt and clay respectively in 2009) and on clay he is virtually unbeatable. If muzz achieved half of what he has I'd be very happy.

It is also a pity that rafa has been so hampered by his knees but, all in all, I stick by what I said: there is not much of a gap between rafa and the rest of the top guys on the main playing surface.

This was all sparked when Carrie started swooning: "How apt for the two player with the special magic to play on a magic carpet."

I thought, Gee, somebody's got to say something here :)

I wish rafa good health and all the best for 2010!

those two are charismatic.....those two really have special magic.......so what are you trying to imply here buddy.....go ahead,dont be shy

That tennis and image are two separate things.

"Imply?" I thought I'd said it quite clearly:)

If you're talking about chic outfits, aura, charismatic smiles etc, sure, put them on the same magic carpet!

I'm just talking tennis ...

what you said clearly was that rafa nadal without his clay court accomplishments has only one grandslam title...yeah thts true.....one oz open......4 masters on a hard court...and an olympic gold medal on a hard court....thts abt it for rafa nadal on a hard court.....WHICH EVERY1 KNOWS....u also said that clay is a very was small part of the tennis season which was foolish..............i have trouble comprehending how "apt for the two player with the special magic to play on a magic carpet." ...sparked u to bring the hard court statistic......do u not agree that it was"APT for rafa to be on the magic court with the great roger federer" or u were just comparing roger and rafa or telling us that rafa nadal has only clay to boast off........just say it a line....

Who said tennis was only about hard courts? Hard courts are the newest surface in tennis, alex, in case you didn't know. Tennis was all about grass and clay, but tournament organisers found hard courts low maintenance that's why so many have converted to them. Did you know that both the USO and the AO were also played on grass?

Anyway A-Rod himself said at Wimbledon that points don't lie. As far as I know, Roger and Rafa have fronted the game for the last x-number of years, they are the box office stars like it or not, and they are the ones who are paid big bucks in appearance fees to grace these occasions. If they stop dominating tennis, you will find that they will take their magic with them, and we might not see their likes for many years to come. So enjoy it whilst you can.

By the way, did you know that Rafa won more hard court matches in 2008 than any other player? If the ATP didn't rate clay courts as high as the other surfaces, it wouldn't have given them the same point structure.

I try to post some comments but they were lost somehow. I'll try to simplify my comments. I agree totally with what carrie said above. Rafa is well ahead of the other three young guns on clay and grass. On hard the gap may be closer but Rafa is still ahead and he is getting better and better on hard court. Its unfortunate that he was hampered by injury in 2009 that he couldn't continue with his winning ways on the hard courts. Comparing the young guns with Rafa on hard courts only doesn't serve any purpose as tennis is not just played on hard courts.

Maybe alex is trying to compare Rafa vs his peers (those in his age group) against Fed vs his peers. Fed is clearly very far ahead of his peers ARod, Ferrero, Hewitt and others. I think only two of his peers could really challenge him had they performed up to their full potential - Safin and Nalby. Its a pity that Nalby, despite all his talent, could not even win one slam; and Safin also has his injury problem and loss of focus to deal with. Had they performed to their full potential, Fed may have a few slams lesser, though its not Fed's fault that they underperform. I will not question Fed's greatness, for he has proven that he can dominate the tours for 4-5 years, over his peers and also over Rafa and his peers (though Rafa did get the better of Fed for about a year).

Rafa has also proven that he can dominate over Fed's peers and his own peers, by the fact that he was no.2 for about four years (only behind one man, Fed) and no.1 for about a year. I must add that in my opinion, I view the three young guns as better than most of Fed's peers, save a top form Safin and Nalby. The fact that they are no.3 to no.5 now proves my point. (Nole is no.3 since 2007, and Murray is no.4 since 2008, when Arod and co are still at their prime serve as further proof). So, Rafa will have a harder time dealing with his peers than Fed had dealing with his.

When we talk about the magic between Fed and Rafa, I think most of us are not just talking about their charisma, but also the level of tennis that they can display when they face each other. In that sense, they are equal, even though Rafa still has to win many slams before he can catch up with Fed in terms of achievements.

vrael -

No buddy, I didn't say clay was a 'very' small part of the tennis season - go back and read again (11:11) - I said it is a 'relatively' small part of the tennis season. That means, compared to hardcourt, it is small. Fact.

As for your question:

Fed is the GOAT. Rafa is clear #2 of his era. 'Magic' status together with fed is a bit too generous as, for most of the season, he is closer to the chasing pack than he is to fed. Still not said in 'a line' I know - not possible as I'm not making extreme, unqualified statements - but still a bit briefer than either of us has managed so far:)

carrie -

Ditto. I don't know who said tennis was ONLY about hardcourts? Certainly wasn't me. What I did say was that today it's a lot MORE about hardcourts than about clay. I deliberately used the word 'relatively'. Balance! Perhaps it's a pity that clay doesn't play a bigger part in the modern game, but that's just the way it is.

Anyway, guys, as I said, 'magic' and myth aside, rafa is a terrific player and great to watch.

i stand corrected about my: very small part" error
"Clay is a relatively small part in tennis"....true......but how small......3 masters events,two 500 events and one of the oldest and most prestigious event ever(2 nd only to wimbledon).....your talk of ignoring rafa's roland garros's and then comparing him to other players is what is wat irks me..y should we??.tennis is a game and is played on a lot of surfaces....including clay which is very important.......if you want to compare delpotro,djokovic and roddick with rafa u either take all their accomplishments or take none at all at all surfaces...thats the basis of an honest observation

"Fed is the GOAT. Rafa is clear #2 of his era. 'Magic' status together with fed is a bit too generous as, for most of the season, he is closer to the chasing pack than he is to fed" i disagree.......rafa nadal reached the no. 1 position last year and held it....till wimby this year and lost it because he had to withdraw from that tournament(im not taking away anything from federer here!!!!)......if he had participated this year at wimby and even made it to the quarters then he would not have lost a mammoth 2000 points.....federer understands that too and he has stated that many times....for most of 08 federer was the one who was chasing rafa mate.............rafa is not the only one who has done chasing and his name deserves to be taken with the great roger federer.......and that is my assesment....

I actually agree with most of what you guys have to say, but I realise that no rafa fan is going to enjoy anyone interfering with his 'magic' or 'other-worldliness'.

I also wish muzz had a bit of the rafa's charisma and used his huge array of tennis shots with a bit more flamboyance on court. Carrie, no I didn't know that rafa had the best h/c record of 09 (very interesting), but is it not true that over the same period muzz has started closing the gap in his h2h with rafa?

muzz, despite his lack of slams, also has a better h2h with fed than rafa does, but - and I don't like saying this - delpo has to be the one that will stimulate most interest in 2010. If his rise continues and he stays consistent, I can see delpo overtaking rafa's slam record.

Very early days, I know, very the very fact that it's possible shows that the unchallenged fed-rafa era is now over.

I also disagree about Rafa being closer to the chasing pack than to Fed. Despite his injury, he still finished as no.2 in 2009. Nole playing the full season without injury still couldn't catch and replace Rafa at no.2, Murray briefly topple Rafa for no.2 but couldn't hold on to it and lost it during the USO. How can one says that they are closer to Rafa?

I think alex is blinded by Fed's achievement and forget that Fed is around for a longer time than the young guns to achieve his 15 slams. As I've mentioned earlier on, Rafa still has quite a bit to catch up with Fed in terms of achievement but don't forget that Rafa is able to beat Fed most of the time they meet, even on hard courts they are 3-3, so I don't see why Rafa cannot be Fed's equal if they meet. If one always take slam achievements as a measure, then of course no one can compare to Fed now, as he has a distinct advantage over the young guns (including Rafa) having being around a few years longer than them. Who knows what these young guns can or cannot achieve? Only time will tell whether any of these young guns can match Fed's achievements. We'll have to wait and see.

BTW, ain't we talking about the magic when these two comes together and play against each other? Why are we talking about who is greater or who has a higher status etc. The magic has got nothing to do with individual status or achievement, but has something to do with what they can give us when they play against each other, ie pure excitement, plus entertainment, plus heartache, plus joy, plus....

'Carrie, no I didn't know that rafa had the best h/c record of 09 (very interesting)'

I said Rafa had the best h/c record of 08 not 09.

I'm really looking forward to seeing fed v. rafa encounters in 2010 - especially as the rivalry was so interrupted due to rafa's injury in 2009 - but, as a neutral, I'm looking forward to delpo v. fed every bit as much.

Glad to assist the thread:)

carrie -

sorry about the misquote, I should have worked out it wasn't possible in 2009 due to rafa's injury. Put it down to dementia!

Rafa's h/c record of 09 is not bad either, best h/c results for the 1st half of 09, with 3525 points, finish the year with 5925 points from 12 h/c events. Nole has 5900 points from 12 h/c events; Murray has 5150 points from 12 h/c events; Delpo has 5370 points from 12 h/c events and Fed has 5100 points from 10 h/c events. In fact if carrie were to say that Rafa has the best h/c results in 09, she is not wrong!

Whether Delpo can surpass Rafa in terms of slams won, only time will tell. Fed dominates on hard and grass to get his 15 slams, Rafa dominates on clay to get to 6 slams in total to date. Can Delpo dominate on any surface, hard court maybe? To me, I don't think Delpo can dominate on hard court, as I think both Nole & Murray and maybe in future Cilic too can counter Delpo on the hard courts (even if we take both Fed/Rafa out from the equation). Grass highly unlikely for Delpo, as I think Murray is better. Clay? Maybe, but most likely he will have to fight with Nole and again maybe even Murray & Cilic (assuming a post Rafa period). I foresee a shared dominance period after the Fed/Rafa era, dominance shared by three or four guys, with each winning maybe 4 to 5 slams in their career. We shall see.

tennis is not just about hardcourts. You can't compare Delpo and Nole to Nadal just because they have the same number of hard court slams. Wimbledon and the French count too. Actually, to many people, they count more.

Talk to me after Delpo has made some noise in London.

Alex why would you remove 5 GS wins on any surface? You make no sense.

Speaking of surfaces, I'd personally like to see more grass tournaments. It should be roughly even as far as the amount of tournaments for hard, clay and grass. I don't like how the number of grass tournaments have been reduced so much. To me, Wimbledon is the greatest GS yet there are very few warm-up tournaments played on grass. It's a shame. They could just push the USO to the end of the season and make it the WTF/USO end of year 3 out of 5 GS even if they had to make it indoors due to the weather. If tennis is going to be played on multiple surfaces, the tournaments should be roughly equal. If they extended the grass season then Wimbledon could be pushed back and all those hot and humid weather U.S. tournaments in August could be pushed back and made indoor tournaments. Then it would be even: first part hard court, second part clay, third grass and fourth indoor hard. Then we wouldn't have the argument of whether clay and grass are big parts of the season or not.

Rafa and Fed definitely deserve thier places in the magic carpet. Despite younger players coming up, they are still the poster boys of tennis. They are the ones who attract and bring crowds to tennis tounaments all round the world (more than anyone else). Therefore make sense to have them in the magic carpet.

Read a lot of posts about Rafa vs. younger stars on hard court. Well its a fact that Rafa is way above all of them as far as hard court titles won is concerned. Only Fed above Rafa. And Rafa is way way better than any them as far as Grass and Clay performance is concerned. Bottom Line: I dont agree that Rafa is close to the chasing pack at all. Infact as of now he is way ahead of them.

Fed/Rafa rivalry - I think it is far from over. If both are injury free then you will see them contesting atleast 2 GS finals in 2010

Rafa and Fed definitely deserve thier places in the magic carpet. Despite younger players coming up, they are still the poster boys of tennis. They are the ones who attract and bring crowds to tennis tounaments all round the world (more than anyone else). Therefore make sense to have them in the magic carpet.

Read a lot of posts about Rafa vs. younger stars on hard court. Well its a fact that Rafa is way above all of them as far as hard court titles won is concerned. Only Fed above Rafa. And Rafa is way way better than any them as far as Grass and Clay performance is concerned. Bottom Line: I dont agree that Rafa is close to the chasing pack at all. Infact as of now he is way ahead of them.

Fed/Rafa rivalry - I think it is far from over. If both are injury free then you will see them contesting atleast 2 GS finals in 2010

i agree atul1985...........i wish we have fed-rafa finals every year(with rafa winning)...VAMOS!!!!!!!!!!!

girls u were swooning and alex was just playing devil's advocate, very successfully I'd say!
alex: our Andy has wonderful, wonderful touch and sublime shots, if only if only he had the charisma that is in Rafa's little toe. However, young Laura is apparently taking him in hand, so we can only hope!
lucky star: r u closet Andy fan, by any chance? If so welcome, we need more on this site.
vrael: actually some of us welcome new players in the mix, winning slams/tournaments and no, not just Andy either. For me it becomes a lot more interesting.

It is so fortunate that the tennis Nos 1&2 are so marketable because of their charisma and presence. Also, watching them play each other is to die for, everyone looks forward to that. Organisers must be loving it at the moment, and are making the most of it whilst they can, because whoever replaces them may not be be such big box office stars, and the sport's following will suffer. This is why I hope they stay there for a long time to come. Their magic is not so much their achievements as the combination of those and their star quality.

Just imagine if the Nos 1 & 2 were Davydenko and Cilic?

smr -

"Alex why would you remove 5 GS wins on any surface?"

I wouldn't.

"You make no sense?"

Another rafa fan, no? :)

deuce:that is the right thing to do.......u should welcome new players into the mix..i was very happy when del po beat federer at uso this year....;)

but i dunno why my username was used while you writing this....???.......do i give another vibe???

hey deuce -

Thanks for bringing in a bit of support - I was getting a bit of a hand-bagging there :)

All I do is say rafa's a great player but maybe not quite as perfect as his adorers make out (quite understandable, but a bit too much of a cringey 'love-in' at times - fed's fans are good at that too, although they've got 15 slams to bolster their case), and folk get all prickly and touchy, exaggerating my statements out of proportion.

I mean, we're muzz fans but we know he can be a boring git at times. Despite his sublime shot-making, we admit that he can be too passive on court at times. We sometimes get impatient and frustrated at his body language but still manage to cheer him as loudly as any tennis fan.

Most of his fans love him, 'warts and all', but love doesn't HAVE to be blind, does it?

carrie -

"whoever replaces [fed and rafa] may not be be such big box office stars, and the sport's following will suffer."

Exactly the same was said about Borg-McEnroe and Sampras-Agassi. Have faith, carrie, have faith. Look how suddenly the young rafa burst onto the scene. Nobody knows what new sensation is around the corner! Tennis will survive after fed-rafa, just as it did after all previous stars.

Davydenko and Cilic - lol - no, carrie, these are not the only alternatives to rafa and fed!!

If delpo continues to perform as he did in the USO final 2009 then in a year's time his encounters with fed have the same box office draw as rafa-fed. Ok, delpo isn't such a nice guy as rafa but he can put on a bashful grin in the presser and his shirts can be every bit as luminous:)

Will delpo blow everyone out the water in

Delpo is the most promising of the "rising stars". I believe he will be the next star post Fed-Rafa. You really get that feeling dont u? everybody was taking about Federer being the next star post Sampras in 2002. Everybody was already talking of Rafa being a multiple French Open champ even at the start of RG,2005. And look what they achieved. I get that feeling watching Delpo play - a multiple slam winner in the making

deuce, I'm first and foremost a Rafa fan. He will always be my no.1 favorite tennis player and I doubt that anyone can replace him as my favorite, even in the future. I do like the three young guns too, they have very different characters from one another, but each has his own strength. When they are playing against each other, it is very difficult to root for anyone of them, I guess it depends on who needs the win more. For Rafa I'll always root for him against anyone, but will not hold any grudge against the three young guns if they beat Rafa. However recently I'm unhappy about Delpo and Nole beating Rafa too often and I hope he'll get back at them to rebalance his hardcourt H2H against them. I also like Davydenko but would want Rafa to beat him a few times on hard court too.

alex, I do agree with you that tennis will survive even when Fed/Rafa are gone from the game, because there will be new heros and there will be youngsters that grow up without knowing about Fed/Rafa in the future. However, Fed and Rafa will always live in their respective fans' hearts and they (the fans) will cherish all these Fed/Rafa moments for a long long time, even long after they both have retired from the sport.

Regarding Delpo, I have no doubt that he will be a multi-slam winner, but so do Nole and Murray. I'm also hoping for Cilic to realize his full potential and join these three young guns. I think tennis needs these four guys to compete against each other at the top after the Fed/Rafa era. That is to make up for the lack of individual charisma(relatively speaking, as I think they do have some if not they would not have their supporters/fans) and the intriguing rivalry that Fed/Rafa have left behind. I hope Fed/Rafa can still continue with this rivalry for a least another one/two years.

alex, note my use of the word 'may' instead of 'will'.

And you notice that when people refer to Federer/ Nadal they only compare them to Borg/McEnroe, Agassi/ Sampras rivalry is not in the same league. Borg retired in 1983 so it's taken that long to have that kind of star quality at the top.

alex, since you mentioned Fed/Delpo, may I add another one to the list - Rafa/Nole?

They have played each other 21 times, and the recent meetings on the clay courts were fascinating. I think they are very friendly towards each other and I enjoy that Rome victory ceremony. Both of them are so sweet and adorable.

Rafa/Murray, while they have not met that many times, they are also on very friendly terms. It seems that Murray likes and admires Rafa a lot, and the IW victory ceremony was so funny. The two of them were busy talking that they had not paid attention to the speaker and Murray was asked to pay attention by that speaker, like a principal warning a student who misbehaved. The two of them looked so cute when they were trying to lift that big piece of crystal trophy that Rafa won. Those were the good memories before Rafa suffered that injury that derailed him from his winning ways. No more of such injury please Rafa! Please be back to your winning ways soon!

Yes, carrie, I pretty much agree with you.

Right now, there is arguably more out there to get excited about than there has ever been in tennis, so it's best just to enjoy it while it lasts. I think it's quite possible that, over the next 2-3 years, we will have for the first time in history more than a 2-way rivalry at the very top, with as many as 4 or 5 slam winners regularly exchanging the No. 1 spot in the rankings. Bring it on, I say. That, for me, would do even more for the viewing figures than even rafa v. fed at their best. As a Scottish football fan, I switched over to watching English footbal a number of years ago, after getting so fed up of Celtic and Rangers winning absolutely everything - aside from the big excitement every time the top two played each other, they killed the rest of the game stone dead.

alex, I'm glad that we finally agree.

luckystar-rome or madrid???

it was madrid buddy!!

alex: on second thoughts there are many occasions when I find Andy's charisma by-pass to be a refreshing change!

vrael, it was the Rome victory ceremony I am talking about, where both of them have to speak Italian and Nole was asked to do an imitation of Rafa's on court behaviour. I like that ceremony very much, that was a happier time for Rafa. Madrid was a sad tournament for both Rafa and Nole and I hope to forget that tournament!

MY BAD........i rushed through your post LUCKYSTAR without carefully reading everything......so i thought u were talking about a ceremony having roger and rafa and both of them being nice and sweet...:)

yeah rome was really a happy tournament for a rafa fan.....after being eliminated early from rome in 08(lost to ferrero i think).....it was gr8 to see rafa win this event again

deuce -

muzz and charisma? Yes, he certainly is unusually short of it:) Actually I've learned to laugh at the monotony of his pressers which can be a source of great amusement for mimicking. "We-e-e-e-ell I suppo-o-o-ose it was kinda o-o-o-ka-a-ay out there ... Whe-e-e-e-en is this thing gonna e-e-e-e-end, I'm so-o-o-o ti-i-i-i-ired"

With our muzz it has to be almost completely about tennis! Which is okay by me. It was the tennis that what 'did it' for mcenroe too. Whereas muzz is often responded to with indifference, in mcenroe's early days it was more like hatred! His title "Brat" was no affectionate term of endearment - most folk genuinely detested him! I can remember one occasion when Nastase - who, unlike Mac, was a 'popular' bad guy - received a huge cheer for giving the young upstart a tongue-lashing. But then, as mcenroe's game started to speak even louder than his considerable voice, people got the right distance from him and started appreciating him for what he was. It wasn't long before 'Brat' got prefixed by 'Super-' and by the end of his career nearly everyone loved him.

(I have to say that I enjoyed watching Mac's tennis as much as, if not more than, today's greats - he may have had nothing like rafa's physique but he more than made up for it with incredible skill, balance, timing, agility, wrists and control of the court.)

Muzz might not be a mcenroe on or off court, but the clash of his uncouth personality with the 'strawberries & cream' culture of Wimbledon is just as marked and sometimes hilarious to watch. Ultimately, if he keeps improving where it really matters - on court - folk will learn to love muzz too.

alex,
totally agree with your analysis above. I was Mac's No1 fan when everyone wanted him banned because of his behaviour. In a way, I thought he had a point to question line calls, because they can make or break a match for a player, and let's face it, we would all protest if we were not given due credit in an exam or at work.

As you say, in the end, McEnroe's racquet did the talking (as well, I have to add), and people grew to appreciate him, and now hang on his every word in the commentary box. The good guys like Edberg, who were just as good to watch, are quickly forgotten.

alex: I loved Johnny Mac too!! He was so entertaining to watch, such a fantastic mover round court, brilliant volleyer and that extraordinary corkscrew serve! Astonishing how many Americans don't like him, they prefer boring, boring Sampras. I think you are right about Andy, people will learn to love him too. He has so much talent and has the capacity to get better and better, just hope he remains injury free. In fact Johnny Mac said he thinks Andy trains too hard but looks as if he is relaxing and having fun with Laura, another gr8 talent.

alex: I loved Johnny Mac too!! He was so entertaining to watch, such a fantastic mover round court, brilliant volleyer and that extraordinary corkscrew serve! Astonishing how many Americans don't like him, they prefer boring, boring Sampras. I think you are right about Andy, people will learn to love him too. He has so much talent and has the capacity to get better and better, just hope he remains injury free. In fact Johnny Mac said he thinks Andy trains too hard but looks as if he is relaxing and having fun with Laura, another gr8 talent.

apologies for double, I blame cold weather...

hello alex... rafael nadal is 23yrs... roger is 28yrs... instead of comparing their achievements now.. you should congratulate nadal on challenging and getting the best of roger from a very young age of 18- 19yrs when he won his first french open... when all the other top players were shit scared of roger... roger won his first slam only at 22yrs... at 23 yrs nadal has 6 grand slams on all surface.. clay , grass and hardcourt.... one olympic gold medal.. not counting the numerous atp masters titles and other titles... 81 unbeaten match streak on clay.. an open record... and he is only just maturing.. getting better at every surface.. what more achievements can you ask from a man to be considered great... nadal will be at his best for the next 4-5 years ( from 2010-2015) and then let us come to the question of comparing roger's achievements with nadals... by that time you may as well have to chew your own words....

and as of rafa's peers.. they are all infants now compared to nadal's achievements.. one slam win here and there by a person(ie, novak and del potro) does not compare to what nadal has accomplished so far.. and beware guys nadal will play his best from now on for another 5 yrs minimum.. nadal's era of domination have begun..

carrie -

Out of the many mcenroe explosions, for me the most outrageously funny had to be the 'I-hate-this-country' tirade at rolland garros. How to win friends and influence them in a foreign country! Still a LOL memory for me :)

One of my favourites was when he refused to attend the winners ball and the press asked him about it, and he said "Yea, I was supposed to go to this thing for a cup of tea or something, but yea, I missed it...."

My all time favourite is "You cannot be serious, the ball was clearly in........." and another time telling the referee that he was the pits of the earth, and that if he had his way, he would never referee another match again.

I hope Murray gets rid of that habit of banging his knuckles against the strings of his racket. I saw it when he was playing at Montreal last year. They had to show us a closeup of his bloody knuckles as the trainer came out to clean up the mess. There has to be a better way for him to handle the stress of these matches.

I also dislike the incessant, loud cursing. I guess it may motivate him to play better, but it makes it hard to watch him. I will never question his innate talent, but it's his demeanor on court that makes him so difficult to watch.

Good article but the rumors of the demise of Nadal/Federer have been greatly exaggerated! ;)
The only hiccup in this fabled rivalry happened last year with Rafa out of the picture for injuries. The Rafa era is just starting, and Roger has still a lot of fuel in his tank and not looking to retire any time soon. He is not like other players, waiting to hit certain milestone to retire. He simply loves the game and will play for as long as he is able. The same is true for Rafa. He loves the game and none of them are mentally affected by loses as much as the rest of the pack, that's why when healthy they are the 2 most consistent players in the world. All the rest have shown moments of brilliance, but never near the level of consistency of Roger and Rafa. You see Murray be the one rising, then Djoko, then Delpo, then Davydenko, but I don't see any of these still with a solid chance of dethroning the top 2.
May the rivalry live on!

now they cant even both get to the final of a 250-point event?

its over. But the title would be more accurate if it said the end of Federer-Nadal. The end of Federer and Nadal, their individual ends, is far from over.

But the rivalry is over. They arent good enough anymore and the rest of the field is too good for them to play each other more than once or twice a season.

Ricky, sad but true. I just had this feeling that it wasn't meant to be this week. Maybe they'll still be good enough on clay, but not, I fear, on hardcourts.

RICKY AND CHERYL yes u bot are right to a large extent but on grass and clay they wil meet almost frequently! hard courts are easy to master for all players becoz its easy to move on hard courts,the bounce isnt tricky unlike clay and grass plus big servers have adv on hard which is missing on clay.delp and djo are the only other players who can threaten roger-rafa pack on clay especially roger but i am still xpecting a roger-rafa wimb final or may b semi!

yeah, the only real hope of them playing more than once this season is if Nadal gets passed for the No. 2 spot

Shhhh Ricky.

Ricky you are strange. Why only when Nadal gets passed for the No.2 spot. It may also happen when Fed's ranking changes, or both their ranking change.

lucky - Nadal is a lot closer to losing his No. 2 than Federer is to becoming No. THREE. So yeah, only if Nadal gets bumped from No. 2 will they start playing each other more.

ok forget the distant future ricky what do you think abt tomorow
s final? rafa in 3? or davy?

Ricky, both their rankings can change if Nole wins the AO, and Fed only make the QF. Nole will become no.1 , Fed no.2 and Rafa no.3 or 4.

I think if both Davy and Rafa play like they played today in tomorrow's final, Rafa may still have a chance to beat Davy, maybe in three sets. I'll go for a Rafa win tommorrow, in three tight sets.

Davydenko will win the match

mmm... not so, Ricky. Rafa will demolish Nikolai in straights.

Nadal has lots of recovery time coming up ... Davy's going down.

i think davy could be tired. if they go the distance, rafa will outlast him. i hope...

i doubt that homos......remember shanghai???....its best of 3 and davydenko would have
enough gas to play high level tennis for 3 sets i think....he is extremely fit!

After the Doha tournament, I can't help but think that the Fed/Rafa rivalry may really come to an end. Maybe a new decade may signal the end of an old rivalry and bring us a brand new one?

There seems to be something wrong with Fed these days, from the Basel tournament up till Doha, he keeps losing. Save for the loss to Beneteau in Paris, he's been losing to top 8 guys like Nole, Delpo, Davy and even Soderling. Will he become like the Rafa of late 2009, where he couldn't beat a top 8 guy anymore? Will his win against a top 8 guy - Murray at WTF - be an exception rather than the norm?

As for Rafa, we see his game is surely coming back, but his confidence and belief is still not there. Just the thought of coming so close to beating a top 8 guy could make him nervous that he ends up losing the match! What happen to his mental toughness? It seems that now Davydenko is more mentally tough than anyone else. Rafa please wake up, tell yourself that you can do it, keep believing in yourself! We want to see Rafa the warrior back. please!

I hope both Fed and Rafa really pull up their socks and start beating the top eight guys again, if not, those guys will grow in confidence each time they beat Fed/Rafa, at the expense of Fed/Rafa's own confidence and self belief!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILOLv9S5RUI

THE BEST MATCH OF THIS YEAR SO FAR ;)........this rivalry is rocking too!

Yeah vrael, really fun match to watch.

i just cant stop but praise henin......such a small frame,but what power....pound for pound,she may be the strongest player on wta......hits the sweatest of backhands.........roger may be envious of justine's one hander ;)

isnt it early to say that this year would be year of the 'others'.. though its inevitable that at some point, the media picks up new leads.

It would be a sad day when this rivalry is over, but luckily it is not quite over, we might be lucky enough to see another 2 or 3 Slam finals between these great players. I don't see Murray spoiling the party too often really and Djokovic is rather disappointing lately. Delpo, well, he could, he has and he might again, but not consistently. I still think we are still in their era. I just hope Nadal can keep up his end of the rivalry and make the finals along Federer.

Another great rivalry not often talked about was Edberg/Becker. The only "dull" time and tennis came when Sampras was on the slide-the time before Feddie, you know when Roddick, Hewitt, Safin, Juan Carlos, Robredo, Moya fought for the nr 1 spot. The problem was that they became no1 by playing good in plenty of tournaments but not winning so many of them. Even though a player like Hewitt was no 1 for a quite a few weeks, he never dominated and there wasn't just 1 player who could beat him. None of them will be remembered as legends or greats of the game like Nadal and Federer would already be. I don't see Murray being called one of the best ever once he retires. Del Potro...no, also not, Djokovic not and non of the other players I would think will become players name in the same breath as say a Becker or Connors. That is what is scary-will these players be the Hewitts and Safins before a Federer arsises again somewhere or will one of them become a legend. We will have to wait, but Fed might keep it interesting for another 3 or 4 years and if Nadal stays fit, so can he.

Exactly, BigL. You have overlooked Tomic though, whom Atackingtenizrules has tipped as a GOAT in waiting. Lol

BigL - The Hewitt era is EXACTLY what I'm afraid of. a bunch of players who are pretty darned good, but not much more than that and without universal appeal. I suppose Safin could have been, but he was so inconsistent that his fans generally liked him for his looks rather than his actual tennis.

Carrie - LOL!

It is all about the Slams you win. I hope we don't get such a monopoly on the Slams as what Federer and Nadal (to an extent) have done. Sure it's great for the individual and his/her fans and yes you do get great matches but I'd rather see a Davydenko v Murray or Del Potro v Cilic GS Final than the constant Federer this and that type of final.

There is a chance if this happening this year. Nadal will lose to Murray anyway and hopefully Davydenko beats Federer.

you'll have to wait a while sly.Federer is out there to win.it's still interesting though that there are so many top players out there wanting a piece of the action. it's exciting enough already!

Who can guess when this picture was taken?

http://www.foxsports.com.au/common/imagedata/0,5001,5360060,00.jpg

nadline: :-) :-)
when he was 15?

Here are Roger and Rafa having an argument:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1Vos-Facs4

ahh :-) now we hear their true feelings :-)

we knew all along all of what is in this video is just pretense ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpKxC9A6dMw&feature=related

nadline, as a FEDAL fan I felt guilty laughing at that

*laughs more anyway*

chlorostoma, 4/23/10 6:19 PM Thanks for putting up this clip. What great images of these two which confirm their mutual respect and camaraderie. What a pity there is not a similar respect between their feuding fans. In years to come we will look back with nostalgia on the golden era of the riveting rivalry between this charismatic duo but meanwhile let's hope we will be treated to many more Rafa/Roger duels.

A tribute to Roger and Rafa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21in-9EqHi4&feature=player_emb edded#!

So Nadal and Federer in the same half in Rome!
feel the heat?

tennislover, vamosrafa, here is what i have found so far about the draw for federer - am sure ricky will be blogging something soon.

Rome Draw - Brutal Half for Federer !

------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------

Rome Draw is out: http://www.atptennis.com/en/common/T...08/416/mds.pdf

Federers Half is brutal:

First Match: possibly against Canas
Next round: Mathieu (who's in great shape at the moment)
Quarter: Gasquet or Ferrer
Semi: Djokovic or Nalbandian

@ maxi are we looking at the same draw?
First round bye for fedex, followed by Baghdatis, Querrey, QF Cilic and SF Tsonga/Murray/Djokovic

@maxi..
what is this??
because if you are speaking of rome draw for 2010..
i know two things about fed' draw.. and ya it is bloody brutal..
1st round bye
2nd round- baghdatis/gulbis
semi final.. guess who?? federer's nightmare.. the lord of clay himself.. and no. 3 seed rafael nadal..

just confirmed..
thisis for fed..
2nd round baghdatis/gulbis
3rd round-querrey
and qf (6) cilic
and sf-you know who
no need to look ahead to finals

just can't believe it..
jcf vs tsonga again 4 3rd round!!
but this time tsongs vs de bakker in 2nd round..
de bakker...go!!
and then revenge time juanqui!!

Moment of the truth
yeah a potential semi final between the greats the draw of Federer doesnt look easy Baggy Lubjij and Cilic so if he goes to semi Nadal will be waiting after a potential Soderling station in QF no other big names in his draw ( again!)

@ clayking

finally "you know who " will be thrashed by emperor himself.(just like harry)

@chenna..
no comments.. the king of clay does not need anyone to speak for him.. his racquet is quite a powerful thing you know..
and my dream final..
MATADOR VS MOSQUITO..
oh how i would love it!!
go mosquito go!!

Clayking
yeah Mosquito cause you Malaria one sting then goodbye
wait for the sting man
feels funny if 16 winner is a mosquito what a 6 winner is?
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm
i have alot of bugs name in my mind right now!do you want to help

tennis lover if you knew anything about tennis you would know that the "mosquito" is a nickname for juan carlos fererro. this is the problem with fed fanatics, they find criticism for federer in innocuous statements. stop taking it so personally idiot.

@tennislover
i was personally of the belief that everyone here has better knowledge than me when it comes to tennis..
thanks tl, you proved me wrong..
next time, just think before you write a thing..
if fed gets beaten in semis, how the hell can he be in my dream final???
my dream final is nadal vs ferrero..
know ferrero??
juan carlos ferrero??
former world no.1??
2003 roland garros champ and former rome champ??
the man who has the best win loss on record on clay this year but lost to thiemmo de bakker in what will be his worst performance for coming few months..
know him??
he is the guy who is called mosquito.. he is called el mosquito for his speed..

p.s. i never knew one sting of mosquito means goodbye!!
he is opposite half of nadal and hence has a good chance to reach final..

feds not gonna be pleased that nadal is in his half. but i bet that deep down, hes happy that Soderlings in Nadals quarter.

JCF's nickname 'mosquito;' has been around for years. my goodness!!!!

0-1
you got me there dont brag for too long about it i missed this one

Baghdatis, Ljubicic n Cilic, tough draw on clay? Are u kidding me, when you are talking about Fed, the second best clay court player currently?

Both Fed and Rafa have OK draws. The only player having problems
is Murray, having Ferrer and Ferrero in his quarter. I think Murray won't go far in this tournament, probably Ferrer will be able to reach the semi again. In Nole's quarter, Verdasco will reach the semi if Nole continues to underperform. Both Fed and Rafa should be able to reach the semi, and I think and hope for a Rafa/Verdasco final again; with Rafa winning again.

Who knows this year's clay season we may see Verdasco taking up the position that Nole occupied last year, reaching two finals and one semi, hopefully Verdasco can fare better in the FO than Nole did last year.

@luckystar
if fed has to face nadal in semis, you don't call that an ok draw..
if fed is harbouring hopes of 17th masters, that draw is nightmare..
of course, if fed just wants to defend his points from semis last year, then it is ok..

well what you are hoping for verdasco, i hope the same for ferrero..
except for the blip in barca, the guy has been well on his way to be no. 2 on clay..

Clayking, I see Ferrero is having a tough draw, he'll face either Tsonga or De Bakker again. Both are younger than him and had played fewer tournaments than him, I think it will be difficult for him to beat them this time round. I do hope that he beats them, and would like to see a Ferrer/Ferrero QF. We've seen Rafa against these three
fellow Spanairds, and Ferrer/Verdasco; yet to see Ferrer/Ferrero and Ferrero/Verdaso in these Masters series on clay.

I also hope that Verdasco beats Soderling in tmr's final and gets his first 500series title. He should get one by now, as all the other top ten players have either slams/shields or 500 event titles to boot.

great draw for tennis fans. great prospect of a fed nadal match in Rome. Nadal will surely be there. up to Fed to navigate the draw and reach there too. Also hope nadal meets Soderling in the QF's and beats the living daylight out of him.

@luckytar..
i agree it is tough. but this is ferrero's chance to surge for the top 10, which he said was his dream for 2010..
if he reaches qfs and youzhny and berdych gets ousted before qfs, ferrero can reach upto no. 13..
and the better he does, the gap between him n gonzo will close down..

clayking,

good morning.

i responded to tennislover's post yesterday, and could only find the above at the time. but now there is a lot more information out here (plus ricky's thoughts). First and foremost, I cant wait to see federer play. I want to see how his clay court game is shaping up, only seeing his practise sessions on facebook, but am sure he has been working very hard, working towards retaining his title at FO, and it doesnt bother me so much that rafa is in the same half. I am glad, because whenever these two meet, there is always tension and adrenalin and passion from everywhere. It's top heavy in the top half and weaker in the bottom half, but that's the way it goes sometimes. I just hope for a federer win, and if it doesnt happen, then i'll be sad of course, but onwards and upwards!

@maxi..
atleast you are better than some fanatics out here!!
and everyone hopes for the victory of their favourite player, irrespective of where those players stand in the tennis world..
it is ferrero for me and fed for you..
even i am looking forward to see how fed plays in rome and if he has got back into groove..
p.s. he can work as hard as he want.. nadal will still be the favourite.. :D

yes clayking, rafa will be the favourite on clay, so roger got nothing to lose, can play out there freely and with direction. I dont think he is playing until Tuesday though, so STILL more time to wait clayking.

dont you worry, roger will work out his game. I have belief in him. He does as well (looking at how he is feeling, his words on facebook, etc).

Go Roger.

Good luck to you clayking :)

vamosrafa, where are you? It's been too long!

heyy maxi :) i am here and waiting for rome to kick off , i.e waiting for the top dogs to emerge :) .....how are you doing? anyway, really excited for rome. i am hoping for a roger-rafa tussle after so long... soderling failed to put awy the mini-rafa (nando) so rafa will be too tough a challenge. fed has to battle some talent till the qtrs but i expect him to emerge victorious in all these matches because he is very tough t play against on clay. when he locks horns with rafael , i hope roger's forehand is working well becoz that will result in massive fireworks and great contest...i expect rafa to win rome for the 5th time as he played SUPERBLY well in monaco.

hello vamos! last post for tonight. been a heavy workload this weekend and trying to check in and see what's going on - so great that you are my last post for tonight!
Yes, Tuesday. So I suppose it will be baggy v gulbis (and roge will be watching on TV at "home!"), with some good advice from Sevri.

I wish I could be a spy and go undercover right now, see where his game is at. I think the best I have seen roger play (in terms of his backhand) was at the AO this year - it was just "on fire", rocket fuel. just brilliant. But obviously the ball will lie a lot flatter and I understand drop shots are not so effective on clay? (as much as hard court), but I still cannot wait to see the shots. Am sure he has something new each and every tournament. It will be fun vamosrafa.

enjoy your evening. what is the time difference where you are? Are you in spain or in UK? I suppose it would be same time then?

maxi, I reside in Asi(pakistan) :) but the timings suit me BIG TIME...like the semis and finals will pe played around 5-6 pm i guess so that is pretty convenient.

yes, as laver said " roger is too much talent for one body and too many shots in one person" , his arsenal is HUGE, drop shots dont work that well on clay but he used drop shots to GREAT effect on clay last year (madrid and RG)..we shud remember that opponents stand much further behind the b.line so the drop shot in often ON ! even rafa plays his best drop shots on clay :S

i am also curious abt fed's level right now....he is calm and seems to have practiced well....bkhand has been a struggle somewhat on clay for him but with that lovely footwork , u give him a small chance he is gona make u pay wid the forehand. plus, bkhand is not WEAK at all , even on clay, it is just that he finds high bouncing balls tough to deal with that single hand, especially rafa's ABNORMAL forehands.

VERy excited, and good luck with all ur workload too :)

Vamos,
Here we go again. Let's remember that if Roger has found Rafa unbeatable on clay (save a pretty unwell Rafa in unusual conditions) for going on 5 years it has been for far more than only those awesome forehands bouncing high to his backhand. To wit: RG '08 final.

@vamosrafa

hey man. i totally agree with you. Actually, grass and clay courts are the best surfaces to use drop-shots.(grass coz bounce is low, and clay coz every1 stands behind the baseline) Federer said on facebook he was practicing fitness-i just hope he was practising speed. coz imho if fed wants to have a chance of beating nadal he has to do these things:

1. Attack nadals second serve with his forehand
2. Use the drop-shot to make sure less baseline exchanges occur.
3. Hit his backhand down the line a lot to avoid cross-court rallies(nadals vicious top-spin forehand to feds single handed backhand)'
4. He should serve n volley, and fake serve n volley as well(aka pretend to be about to serve n volley, but then stop). This will make nadal unsure about which return to use(the deep one, or the one that lands in the middle of the court)
5. This is the one thats important, and its why i hope hes been practising speed. He HAS to run around his backhand as much as possible, and hit his forehand as many times as he can.

As for nadal, he just needs to be nadal and break down feds backhand. At the end of the day, it will come down to whoever executes his gameplan better. Even tho i want federer to win, nadal will most likely be the one lifting up the trophy.

PS: im assuming fed n nadal will make the semis.
PPS: soderlings going to be owned by nadal.

and so I am not misunderstood: beyond a doubt Federer has been the second best claycourt player in the world for many years now.

one more thing, you live in pakistan? isnt it a bit dangerous their. i should know, my countries cricket team got shot at last year...

@chlorostoma
i get what you are saying. There are a few reasons why fed stuggles with nadal, but that vicious top-spin forehand is teh MAIN reason. NOt only does it make his backhand look weak, but it negates one of Rogers main strengths-his sliced backhand. This shot is so effective against most players, but nadal just bludgeons it cross-court at an angle, and puts roger at a useless position. So fed cant use that shot against nadal. The other reasons federer struggles against nadal is coz of nadals defensive capabilities, and his mental toughness. But the topspin forehand is the MAIN reason.

PS: federer also struggles against andreev-another player with a topspin forehand. even tho hes never lost of him, all the matches have been tight. the reason fed always ends up winning is coz andreev is a horrible mover(so fed can attack him easier) and is inconsistent. (and that andreev is right-handed.)

@tj600
I hear you. The reason I posted on this topic is that as all of you who've been reading a lot of tennis articles and blogs over the years of roger/rafa claycourt matches would know ... people out there are strongly divided on this topic. Many claim that rafa's lefty topspin forehand against roger's one-hand backhand matchup is the main reason for no defeats of Rafa under normal conditions ... BUT just as many have claimed that this is in itself far from the whole picture. I've read, as most of you, endless pronouncements as to how Roger should play Rafa on clay... they run the gamut... and I have watched Roger try a number of tactics. In my mind it is far from clear that the forehand/backhand is such an overwhelming factor: I've watched all those matches and I don't see it this way... and it is far from clear exactly how Roger should play Nadal on clay to win.

i think it's also where rafa's forehand tp ends up at fed. not just the backhand but it ends up around fed's shoulder height which makes it uncomfortable for fed because on RG clay the ball bounces higher. also maybe there's a seed of doubt in roger's head when playing rafa??

(and roge will be watching on TV at "home!")

Actually, maxi -- he's playing doubles with Yves this tournament. They just won their first match.

@homos, there is more to it than that.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but. it seems that people more or less break into two groups in how they view the Rafa/Roger rivalry on clay.

One group views Roger as being more or less at the same level as Rafa and then finds various specifics as to why the consistent losses boil down to some unfortunate matchup of one or two of rafa's strokes. After a while the head issues get in there. But where did these originate?

The other group says, yes, there is that matchup, but the essence of the consistent wins lies elsewhere: overall, when you put together everything that comes into it, Rafa is a level or two above anyone in the ATP when it comes to clay, and has been for several years. Even a level above Roger, who himself is a level above all others.

chlo, no doubt nothing is ever as simple as we sometimes make it. roger himself has said he doesn't like rafa's lefty style. ultimately it comes down to technicality (and sometimes head issues) to explain the consistent losses. otherwise, why the losses? and why predominantly on clay?

as for the head issues, i cannot answer. many commentators feel that rafa got into fed's head when they first met in 2004 and the 34-ranked rafa beat the no. 1 ranked fed in miami in straight sets. he kept doing it at MC, FO in later years and widened the gap in their H2H. who knows what originated from where. but in many analyses, the mention of rafa's topspin forehand into fed's backhand troubles fed and on crushed shale/.brick, the ball bounces higher than grass for eg and if you're not tall enough, it CAN trouble you. his topspin has been a damaging factor and it's most effective on clay. but i have no doubt it doesn't come down to just one or two of rafa's strokes, that's why i mention head issues. as tj says, rafa's mental toughness is another vital factor.

i think it's too simplistic to categorise the fans into 2 groups. even if it does come down to a difference of 1 or 2 strokes, if that's his answer to beat fed and win the clay titles, i don't see a problem. maybe that's what it takes to beat a world no. who's game is one of the most complete. if rafa found the answer, i say use it!

as for being levels above other players, someone would need to tell me how these levels are 'measured' - by titles, majors, win-loss record, taking into account level of competition..??

@homos,

Thank you for your explanations.

From my viewpoint they still are missing something. Yes, the one or two strokes make a significant difference, and the head issues too. But there is also that Rafa is a far more well-rounded tennis player, especially on clay, than many seem to want to see.

When I say a level above everyone it is simply that he has not been beaten on clay in almost 5 years straight, with the exception of when he was well below par ... and clay is the least forgiving surface: e.g. RG is perhaps the toughest tournament on which to win multiple trophies. Rafa is at the level of Bjorn Borg on the surface, if not somewhat higher: i.e. virtually unbeatable, even by such a complete player as Roger during several years of being number one and best of his generation. A lot of the head issues surely come simply from having such a strong contestant in the number two player going on for years.

I think it is hard for some people to see the above as clearly as that: Rafa is as unbeatable by anyone of his generation on clay as Roger has been on hardcourt and grass whenever he was in form (with the exception of a close Wimby '07 and the classic Wimby '08). Why is that so hard to see?

I think it is because one likes to think of Roger as unbeatable everywhere... and also because even the best of their generation will meet someone who can meet them at their level on some surfaces. Rafa has been just about the only thorn in Roger's tennis life ... going on 6 years now: the only player to beat him on hardcourts several times while being young, the only player in years to beat him at Wimbledon (although Roddick almost did), the one player to deny him RG 4 years in a row, and, let's face it, last year's RG's trophy came to Roger despite struggling in many of his matches as he said himself: he almost did not make it ... despite the fact that Rafa was removed from his path.

If I were Roger I'd probably say the same thing in public he just said last few days ago: that now that he has won RG once he can do it again, and there is less pressure. But let's be honest between us here: Roger has still not beaten a fit Rafa on clay going on 5 years, and especially not out of 5 sets at RG.

If (yes, it's a big if) and when he does I will be shocked beyound believe and will say that Roger has risen to a very improbably and unexpected level and I will be more impressed by that than by most accomplishments of either of them so far. It's not impossible that this will happen but very, very improbable. Lest Rafa is injured badly enough or some such, in which case victories hardly mean the same thing.

What I wrote here is nothing new, of course, but I believe it is at the heart of a) the genuine respect some of Roger's fans have for Rafe and b) the vitriolic hatred and the consistent lack of objectivity that some of Roger's other fans have towards Rafa... only because he has been such a consistent and large thorn in the career of Roger.

It is quite a testament to Roger's almost always exemplary character that he has been very amicable and respectful towards his one nemesis in tennis. Hence Cheryl's brilliant article about a year ago on their unusual and layered relationship.

Perhaps I can add this, to explain myself from another viewpoint.

I admire Roger for a lot of different things. Among them, high up, is actually how well he's played against Rafa in all those matches. The very best players of their generation, each and every one of them, had their one or several very tough opponents and they didn't always fare as well against them.

chlo: thanks for that very thoughtful and elaborate post(s). i enjoyed reading. i think i agree with everything you say. i get what you mean now about different levels.

i think fans do try to find an explanation about why their fav has a nemesis. i agree some just can't stomach the thought but i think some try to find a way to understand, after all it's their fav. it does make it more instresting if you can break down their game and see where they went wrong or can improve. if only the players listened to us!! :)

i agree tho, many top players had a nemesis, even from jmc's time and probably before.

which article of cheryl's are you referring to? she did a ?2 part series about their relationship about 1.5-2 years ago? i wonder if you are referring to that. to put it mildly, it attracted some very heated arguments from both sides!

homos:
It seems we agree far more than I thought. And of course there is nothing wrong with trying to figure out where your fav's nemesis makes it difficult. Given what we both agree on, I'd just say that beyound the specific strokes... Rafa is just so superb a claycourt player ... I mean, what part of his game is not superb on clay, other than not than not having the deadliest serve? His serve is known not to be the strongest but he often places is very well and adds spin or not etc, and is getting more aces than he used to. It's certainly not his strongest weapon.

That said, Rafa is just so fine on the surface that if Roger in some cases takes sets off and manages to do what he does it is a measure of how good a claycourt player Roger is.

Yes, those were the 2 articles I was referring to. I don't know that anyone else on the internet these last few years has written so perceptively and deeply on this layered topic. And yes, it gets to the core of many feelings and emotions of roger and rafa fans wordwide :-).

chlo: yes i think we agree more than we initially thought. must admit, i was a bit confused after your 11:16PM post but your elaborate explanation later clarified a lot of things. well, whatever compliment you shower on rafa, i won't argue with you there :)

i agree the the serve is not his strongest weapon but he did improve vastly on that at AO 08 but his serve has been one of the more frustrating things, that and standing miles behind the baseline at times. but he's a different beast on his fav clay. he reminds me a bit of hewitt in that respect. hewitt also didn't have a great and powerful serve but in his prime, his placement was pretty impressive.

let's hope rafa does well in rome and, more importantly, at RG!!!

thank you, homos

as far as what I hope for Rafa, it is always the same: to remain free from injuries as much as possible. Right now I suppose we can also hope that he shakes any doubts from a tough 11 months... but he seems to have done a lot of that in MC. If we don't see too much wavering this week, and I expect we won't, he'll be OK mentally in RG. So, again, let the injuries stay away and Rafa will deal with everything else the best he can.

yes, chlo, 2009 May onwards was a pretty tough year with his injuries and parents break up. not something you wish on anyone but whatever doesn't break him will only make his stronger. he seems to have learnt from his scheduling mistakes too, not playing everything he has to so i'm happy he's making changes for his own best interest.

MC was a great and important win for him. it was a good place for him to be and a good start to the clay/grass season.

indeed. Except I think it started back in March '09 in Miami which when we all started to raise eyebrows and wondered what was up with Rafa... even if you did not take into consideration the form he'd been in for almost a year from the clay season '08 through AO '09. Much, much later, after RG, he mentioned he'd been playing with injuries ( and, I don't know if he said, with his parents breakup). We then saw more clearly why even his early claycourt season last year was not as convincing as usual.

I too am very happy with his new decisions around schedules and trying to keep exchanges short... perhaps I (and mostly this special man) will get the wish of several more years without too many important injuries.

that is true, it was before May, i was thinking along the point of his losses (playing with strapped-up knees in madrid against nole for e.g.) but rafa did say in miami that he had personal issues (reasons) and the alarm bells started to ring. well, hopefully all that is past. the only problem with knee tendonitis is that is doesn't really go away. i think it was pat cash whose career was cut short because of it.

let's face it: what all of this world-class tennis pros are doing to their body is insane, playing many matches a year, so ofthen on hardcourt, and especially nowadays when between being super fit and the modern equipment everyone whacks the ball so hard... our bodies, nobody's bodies evolved to take this... part of being world-class is to be lucky genetically and environmentally to be able to take this abuse better than most, and yet all players have at least minor injuries every year. Rafa's approach to give his all for every ball did not help when he was perhaps more prone to tendinitis that many others. I'm not knowledgeable about this but read that tendonitis is manageable ... I guess at the cost of the occasional brutal scheduling decision at the least. LIke I said, I was not very hopeful but am more now that he'll have a few years left at a high level.

As I write this Roger fought off one match point and has to fight another one... and if he does he'll still be a break down. Goes to show you how tough it is to always win on clay.

@chloro, sorry for responding late but here is my reply

fellow you questioned my statement regarding roger struggling to deal with rafa's forehand. i think u misinterpreted it , i was not explaining how rafa has DOMINATED federer on clay. he has beaten him 9 times so one reason cant be the xplanation, i was just stating something else

anyhow, here is what i think. roger is not a kid, they call him the genius and he is known for his variety and adaptive abilities, rafa's cross court forehand is the BEST shot in tennis and it is clear that roger is so uncomfortable dealing it wid his bkhand.
BUT, there are PLENTY more factors involved. fed , after losing to rafa in 07 MC exprssed frustration over rafa's ability to return SOO many serves on clay !so rafa returns his biggest weapon with interest ! denying roger so many cheap pts.
Additionally, there have been matches where fed has been getting QUICK starts and then rafa had to adjust, look at the hamburg 08 contest, fed lead 5-1 but rafa came back to win 7-5, rafa actually changed tactics and started using the down-the-line forehand more frequently, catching roger off guard

moreover, rafa's cross court bakhand is among the few shots in tennis that has the power and accuracy to out-hit roger's forehadn blows! nadal has used his BIG cross court blows in some of their BIG matches, e.g oz open 09 and wimb 08.

lastly, it is nadal's defence that is INCREDIBLE. some of roger's forehands that are winners against majority of players are sent back whizzing past him when rafa generates those CRAZY passing shots , both wid the forehand and the bakhand.

rafa's unmatched MENTAL strength is also a major contributor !

@vamos,
excellent points, all!

Rafa is imho also a genius of tennis. (no flames, please !).

No, perhaps not quite at the level of Federer. But rafa's tennis mind is brilliant too. He has indeed so often adjusted his game in mid-match against all manner of opponents. And while some might just see the power and speed, he has uncanny intelligence in his tactics, and that includes the use of his serve (from his non-dominant arm). I have always been impressed - just another example here - by his replies to questions in interviews where suddenly the topic is some match he played long ago and he will not only remember how to score line progressed but will remember the exchanges. Very likely there would be even more people that see Rafa's brilliance for what it is but for the blinding rays of the present Sun King of Tennis. I am not saying that to take anything away from Roger the Great, just saying that it makes his achievements and aura sometimes make it hard to clearly see that other star of the yellow balls right next to him.

Two stars like this.... the main reason why the era of these two has been so amazing and why the truths in Cheryl's article here hurt so.

@chloro, nice post !
i totally agree that rafa is a genius in his own right. i remember wilander commentating at the us open, 08 ' for me nadal is the most intelligent player out there, the smartest match player' . perhaps it the genius in rafa that enabled him to master grass and hard courts to win slams on them , given the fact that his game was initially that of a pure clay-couter, many used to say till 06 that rafa can never win on grass.

@vamos: thank you!

I remember so many people writing in 2006 and even into 2007 that Rafa would never do much on grass and certainly not on clay... and that besides he would not last more than another year or so due to his knees.

chlorostoma,
I agree that with Roger shining so broghtly as well, it takes away from Rafa's genius. It's like putting the light on in the sun, you can't see it. Just imagine if Rafa hadn't come along to challenge Roger, I hate to think what the state of tennis would have been in terms of interest from the viewing public.