final or no final,rules are there to be followed in Serena's case it did coast her the match and in DP case the chair umpire shouldnt allow the challenges after 10 seconds. it was strange for umpire to tell Roger to be quite that was so hard to be accepted,still the chair umpire for a final of GS should be wisley picked i dont think Mohammed Al hyani or Pascal would've allowed that to happen.

Cheryl states that he did NOT tell him to be quiet.

And yes because of the awards for sportmanship it becomes a big deal, would be odd it wasn't

Serena was already being outplayed by Kim anyway. I feel she would've lost that match, even if that incident had not happened.

Ricky had stated that later in the match, fed was allowed to challenge a ball after waiting 30 seconds to decide. Your last paragraph tho, is spot on!

Still the Fed leads the tour on Sportsmanship Award count.

1 year if bad behaviour is not so bad.

Stefan Edberg, which the award was named after, is still a way way better sportsmanship model than Fed. Gone are the days when a player will admit that a shot against them is good when it is called out... at least from what I have seen since Edberg left.

lol...cheryl. roddick has atp deduct fines...saves time; good one!

'Gone are the days when a player will admit that a shot against them is good when it is called out'

Because no players see the court like what we watch on the TV with instant replays and a better view of the whole the court and not even Hawkeye is 100% correct.

The players of today don't see the court any different than Edberg did. I agree cable. Nole recently knew the call was wrong and told Roddick to challenge so he would get the point.

Edberg was unusual for any era, I think. I don't know how many of you watched tennis when he was playing, but the way he conducted himself is NOT the norm. There's a reason the named that award after him.

He was a total class act.

Agree Edberg was spoken of very highly in terms of how he conducted himself. He was liked by many. I also noticed Clijsters before her two year break, she would gesture to the opponent to challenge a call if she thought the linesperson made a mistake. She was another agreat sport.

Even so, f4t, there's no way you can totally prove that a player totally know the ball is in or out. And so Nole did a nice thing. Nice but doesn't mean he never did anything wrong.

it is the same as Fed. He just did 2 or 3 wrong things but then all his good deeds are forgotten. Clearly, he is just a victim of his own success. Every microscopic thing he does is amplified 1000x.

People just want to find that 1% when it comes to the Fed.

All the time he praised Rafa and 1 time he did not, people say he never gives credit to Rafa.
All the time he won and people talk about his losses
All the time he said nice things and people talk about a 10 seconds-rant.

'Gone are the days when a player will admit that a shot against them is good when it is called out'

-- Djokovic often will admit it. Props to him.

tores9, you need to be more honest here. Roger has not "not praised Rafa" just one time. The reason it's an issue is that it's happen several times and in different ways over the years and with other players. It's not just calling him one dimensional than twisting later to say it's a compliment. It's the lack of credit for his victor. It won't kill him to say the other player was better on the day or just simply palyed better. Mentioning light (which Gasquet refused to use as an excuse when asked the identical question), saying it was momentum and not necessarily the better player won, telling Neil Harmon Rafa didn't overly celebrate FO08 because Rafa thought "no one beats RF by that scoreline" - all these are very unsportsmanlike backhanded digs at his colleagues. And there have been others which I don't care to list. I prefer his latest where he gives a lot of credit to JMDP. It's so pleasant to read and you are left thinking "yes, Roger was a good sport there". Look at how Nole accepts defeat - consistently!! So please, torres, don't give me that Shakespeare "all my good dees are forgotten in a split second" argument, it doesn't hold here. RF is very high profile, he knows how far his comments go.

And people don't just talk about his losses. The numerous mentions of his 15 slams is in reference to his wins - if I'm not wrong. He has also ranted other times - racket smashing, not shaking hands with the umpire, flinging bottles for the ball girls to pick up. Do you seriously believe this is acceptable behaviour by a player claimed to be one of the greatest?

Fed probably just got shirty with the umpire because the ump had the affrontery to suggest that Federer wait a moment. The man is used to getting what he wants, when he wants it, whether that be the timing and scheduling of his matches, accommodation (tournament paid) at a different hotel from the one that is sponsoring the tournament he is playing, a specially laid tennis court in the gym at his hotel (ATP paid) for the duration of the Masters Cup because it's inconvenient to travel all the way out to the site to practise, etc. etc.

Q. Was it too dark to play?

ROGER FEDERER: What can I tell you?

Q. Should it have had a better finish than that in near darkness?

ROGER FEDERER: It's hard to tell. Look, it's over, so... What's the point arguing about it? It's the way it is

Q. How would you describe what Nadal did today?

ROGER FEDERER: Uhm, I think he played well. You know, I mean, I think he was rock solid the way we know him. He's definitely, you know, improved his game, you know. But I think since the beginning of the year he's been playing well. He's been playing very consistent. He's playing better on the quicker courts. I don't think he really needed a match like this today to really prove himself.
But for some only trophies count. I sort of agree to some stages. But, no, I mean, he's a great competitor, you know, a great player to play against, and I think he did very well today.

Did you make any question about the light to anybody or you just kept playing?

ROGER FEDERER: Kept on playing. I didn't argue. I think I guess I would have said something if I would have broken back to go, what was it, 8 All. Yeah, because, I mean, it wasn't possible to play anymore, so... It would have been brutal for fans, for media, for us, for everybody to come back tomorrow. But what are you gonna do? It's rough on me now, obviously, you know, to lose the biggest tournament in the world over maybe a bit of light, you know. It's not the first time anyway against Rafa. Lost to him in Paris as well in the semis. So it's not a whole lot of fun, but it's the way it is. I can only congratulate Rafa for a great effort.

This is the transcript from the interview. Now if you can see here, it's the interviewers who kept on pushing the 'light' thingy to him. He didn't wanna talk about it. He said maybe he would probably stop but in no way he was putting it up as an excuse.

Look how many times he congratulate Rafa. You guys are just ridiculous.

Nole accepts defeat consistently? How bout last year where he made so much controversy in US Open and how bout his quitting scandals. Quitting a macth is the worst possible way to accept defeat anyway.

Saying not necessarily the best player won is what Nadal said when Del Potro beat him. Same as when rafa lost to Soderling, he said he was the one keeping the balls short.

IS THIS ACCEPTABLE FOR A NO.2 PLAYER???

Whats good with awards without their essence. They're just trophies that clutter your basement!

That is totally subjective. The award itself is a subjective thing. Is there a ranking point. So if Fed doesn't get it, who deserves it in the past 5 years? Maybe the quietest player should get it.

I think Dr.Ivo should be given it. Or Andreas Seppi. Becoz they dont say anything or offend anybody. Dont say anything controversial in interviews.

And phoenix, whateva clutters in your basement are surely not trophies.

The Award is to encourage people to play fair. Far as I am concerned, there are many other players that play fair than the top 20 players. How bout Verdasco? He probably say never says 'Not that the guy plays unbelievable but it's me who doesn't play 100%'.

So he deserves it more than Nadal.

And also so many other players. The reason why I think Fed gets it because he is in the spotlight all the time being no.1 and breaking all sort of records and no one handles it better than Fed.

Even Muzza and Nadal got a little ugly when they were on top of their game for awhile.

SO imagine having so much success as Fed as only having some occasional frustration and emotional outbursts is just a natural thing to me.

"And also so many other players. The reason why I think Fed gets it because he is in the spotlight all the time being no.1 and breaking all sort of records and no one handles it better than Fed."
Spot on torres.Roger's sportsmanship is measured against the magnitude of his own success not against a player less successful than he is,which is why he got the awards.Surely,he did something right which is why his peers voted for him for the last five years.

That said,all heavily dominating players have an ego which is why they are as successful in the first place.Tiger Woods has it,Ali had it,they all do .

LOL torres, your are becoming like your old pal, malty. Replying to each and every post regarding the Fed. Chill out man. Get a life outside tennis and the Fed once in a while. :-)

-- Djokovic often will admit it. Props to him.
RickyDimon , 9/19/09 5:20 AM

I didn't know that Ricky. Don't get to watch many Djokovic matches but have to say that he has been very sporting of late. Perhaps he should be in the running for this year's award over Fed, who had lost some control in one of his matches earlier this year (one of the US hardcourt Masters... I forget which one... if my memory serves correct, it was against Djokovic??).

Garner was announcing the score into his microphone while Federer was sitting next to him complaining. Loudly. Jake simply put up his hand in the universal ?wait a moment, please? sign. He was asking Federer to pause in his rant until he?d finished announcing the score, NOT telling him he couldn't talk.

In his irritation, Federer then replied, ?Don?t show me your hand, okay? Don?t tell me to be quiet. I?ll talk when I want to talk.? And then he proceeded to offer up a few choice expletives, because (in his own words), ?I know the bleeping rules?.


So he wouldn't even let the chair ump read the score??? HE had to get HIS word in!! The score wasn't imporant!! It's all about the roger federer!! Talk about ego!!

torres, I see that your 'reply' to my post is to copy and paste a couple of answers from RF in an interview. Firslty, I never said that RF NEVER compliments Rafa. I even commented about the nice things he said about JMDP recently. But you haven't addressesd the issues I raised. You seem adament on refusing to acknowledge some aspects of RF's behaviour like his lack of sportsmanship in not shaking the umpire's hand or throwing bottles or the other comments he makes. How do you reply? You bring up what you see are negatives in Rafa's character. It's like a schoolyard fight with you.

Yes, it's not ideal of Nole to retire in matches. Has he been doing it lately as often as he used to? Are you aware of the reasons for some of his retirements? I admit some are very suspect. But I was refering to when he loses his macthes, he doesn't take a swipe at the victor, blame light or momentum. And his outburst last year was in reply to Roddick, REMEMBER THAT.

This discussion was never about Rafa. It was about Roger. Have you read the blog? Why do you always have to come back to Rafa and bring everything back to Rafa? Is this how you turn a blind eye to what you think are no-very-nice things about Roger that should be swept under the carpet and never spoken off? Are you afraid that by saying "yes that was very poor judgement on RF's part but he'll hopefully learn and move on" or "hopefully people will remember the better things he's done and not dwell on this too long because it was a heated moment", your whole world will come crashing down? It's not that bad torres, really, all the players have faults, ALL. Every single one of them, past, present and future.

Now don't waste your time cutting and pasting some player's comments or a youtube video just to trash Rafa. I won't be wasting my time with this discussion anymore. It's clearly beyond you to stick to a topic without suring the web for the most exciting reason to trash Rafa.

phoenix, whatever it is, i'm posting during my free time. Not like u, wandering around here posting 2-liners.

You and homos do not have any opinion, in my opinion.

Jean, clearly your lack of tennis following has become clearer to me. Djoker never took swipe at his victor? When he lost to Nadal in FO the 1st time, he said he didn't play his best and could have beaten Rafa, the FO champion at that time (not anymore LOL)

You said dont post here the video so go search yourself in Youtube.

Djoker's retiring matches were as recent as Fed not shaking the umpire's hand. And you are siding on Nole on the basis of him 'not doing it recently'. WOW... Aren't you contradictory and double-standard?

Fed shook the umpire's hand probably 1000 times in his career even when he lost. He forgot to do it ONCE. Do you hear me? ONCE!!!

Who knows might be on his mind at the time? Everyone lost their keys once in awhile because maybe they were thinking of some other things.

So when Fed forgot to shake hands, are you guys him to know wha he was thinking at the time? Did you guys noticed how startled he was by the defeat that he even said that 'I am moving on to clay'

CLAY? Fed goes to clay for comfort??? Is that someone who is not having deep thoughts on himself??? And you guys choose toi ignore that and turn around and look at him breaking his racket 1st time in FIVE YEARS!!! WOW!! And also NOT SHAKING HANDS 1st time in 5000 matches.

Wow, isn't it convenient to pick on someone for something he did once in a lifetime. It's not like he killed someone or raped someone. Just forgoting to shake the umpire's hands one time? LOL

THese are the type of double-standards I'm talking about.

You guys get more and more agitated everytime I challenged your shallow observations because it's almost undebatable.

Jean, u havent answered any of my questions too. Are u just incompetent?

torres' opinion = rafa and delpo play same type of game!!! if this is your best, i'm glad i don't have an opinion compared to you!


fed refused to shake the umpire's hand on at least 2 occassions!!! he didn't forget, what a fibber you are torres, making things up just to try and get a win in arguement. shame on you! yuk!!

You call that comment of Nole's a swipe?? lol!


yeah torres, all rafa fans are ridiculous and incompetant. if only we could be tennis savy, mature and intelligent like you - as shown in your posts!! we envy you, you know torres, but we try to hide it! ROFL!!

"phoenix, whatever it is, i'm posting during my free time. Not like u, wandering around here posting 2-liners." - torres9 , 9/19/09 9:53 AM

Judging by the length and frequency of your posts, you must have a lot of free time. Come on man, get a life. Get a GF or something. Oh I forgot, you are busy with your masters thesis. :-)

yes, homos, go back to school. Good boy,

this guy is absolutely BSxBS
He knows nothing except to worship his master
What an AH!!!!!!!!!

$1500 why all that money?
Do they wantto make Fedex declare bankruptcy or what?
They have to have some mercy on him
He just did like 10 times before, not big deal
Now what will Fedex do after this HUGE fine?
I hope he will find money to buy foor for his twin!!!!!!
LOL

$1500 why all that money?
Do they wantto make Fedex declare bankruptcy or what?
They have to have some mercy on him
He just did like 10 times before, not big deal
Now what will Fedex do after this HUGE fine?
I hope he will find money to buy foor for his twin!!!!!!
LOL

I remember Edberg, he was my Nadal at the time. I liked his style and charm, and he did not always win, but managed to keep his cool. The Swedes got the good behaviour tag in that era, because they were all so chill. And this was when JMac was around. Mr Federer does not fit into that mould at all.

Some people have attacked me for saying that Federer should have received a warning as well, I think he should have. We'll see who will win the sportsmanship award for this year, because I think for the last 5 years it has been on auto pilot, because people couldn't be bothered to think about it. If Federer wins it again, then it will lose it's credibility.

smartcuty, is that all you got? LOL... Try countering my points. Bring it on.

Suddenly carrie cares about the Sportsmanship award and now she likes Stefan Edberg. What's new??? Pffttttt...

Unfortunately, the rule that a challenge must be done ?immediately?, bled its way into ?meh, whenever??

cheryl,I gather from this that there isn't a prescribed time limit. So what rules was Federer saying he knew? There are too many anomalies in tennis, they should be cleared up.

torres, I hate to say this, but soometimes I start reading a post, can't make head or tail of it, check to see who the poster is, and it's always you, so now I tend not to read your long posts, because they do my head in.

torres
Stop this BS & go ahead with ur life
I don't care a .... about you or ur BS posts
Ppl like that should go to the nearest hospital but noone could ever cure their sick hearts & minds

Torres did not reply to my previous post. Did I hit a soft spot?

Torres did not reply to my previous post. Strange, did I hit a soft spot?

???? Owhh, you were saying something.phoenix. I thought you were giving advice to yourself... Good,... Keep it up...

Carrie, you are correct in saying there is no prescribed time limit for challenges. The challenge system, in my opinion, is not regulated enough. The official rule basically says that a player is supposed to challenge "immediately". It does not give a time limit in seconds. Therefore, it is up to the chair umpire to decide.

In Garner's defense, he DID permit Federer to...um...stretch the time limit on one of his challenges as well. I noticed that Roger didn't complain about that one though. :)

I think this year is gonna be Federer's too, for the simple fact that this year he made history with his GS record and blah, blah, blah. Everybody can see this year is Federer's year and they will take that into account to decide who receives the award. But to me, as Carrie said, it's going to lost all credibility if they do so. Even Del Potro showed better manners in the court than RF this season.

alba, most players show better manners than fed period.

so there is no rule about actual time limit. so fed screaming about knowing the rules was a fib! just like his fan above, making things up. interesting. but than fed IS tennis and nothing else ought to matter!

i wonder how many players will start to realise that as fed loses more and shows his ugly side in his inability to deal with such difficult times (like 08), that th eonly reason they thought he was so nice before was because he had it all his own way.

Cheryl that was later.And like I said previously I'm not sure Garner would've allowed him to,had he not let Del Po get away with the challenge previously.

And Cheryl you didnt even manage to quote Roger correctly.Shows that watching youtube videos dosent give the whole picture.

reg the Fed vs Djokovic sportsmanship discussion that you guys were having - isn't the recent semi final a case in point against Federer? Nole serves far into the deuce court (I think), Fed reaches for it but doesn't make it, and the ball is called out. Nole challenges, and correctly. They are made to replay the point. Nole argues that it was in, and the ball was called out _after_ Roger missed. No, they were made to replay the point. You would think a 5-time sportsmanship award winner would have let him have the point?!

Fed was not allowed to make a challenge in the semifinal against Novak saying its late ( might be 3 secs ) so lettting Delpo make the challenge aftre 10 secs is not fair . Nuthing wrong in what fed did . Rules should be same for everyone .
Those deciding the sportsman ship award are not dumb people they know what they are doing. If you guys know to judge better please apply yourself to the deciding group and nominate ur fav player .

If any of ur fav players got owned or couldnt reach the QFs os slams please try to control ur emotions instead of letting ur envy for FED to flow as cheap comments. Shame on u guys .

I think there is some confusion about how the Challenge system works.

As long as you are moving toward the mark and continue looking at it, or are talking to the umpire, you can do that as long as you want until challenging.

Once you TURN AWAY, physically, you can no longer challenge.

In the point in question, Del Potro walked toward the umpire, talked to him, and before turning away, challenged. It was, as it should have been, granted.

If Del Potro should not have been able to do that, then Federer should not have been able to challenge when he waited a full 30 seconds to do so in the fourth-set tiebreaker.

I think I managed to get the whole picture well enough, janhavi. Are you arguing that Garner actually DID say "be quiet"? Or are you going to quibble over the exact order that he said "When I want to talk I'll talk"? because if you're quibbling over something that doesn't make a difference to the point of the article, I'm not sure why you're bothering.

Ricky, I think the real question was whether there was a time limit. There is not. Much is left to the discretion of the chair umpire. The fact is that Garner treated both players equally.

What happened in Federer's match against Djokovic should not have been an argument by Federer, since Garner was not in the chair during that match.

envy of fed?

now this is definteily a new one :P


ricky, thanks for providing such a clear explanation. somehow i think people have made up their minds though.

yeah, in case people care, Federer said "If I want to talk I'll talk."

lets just say I prefer the commentators' take over someone who wasnt even there in person.If the commentators say Roger was silenced I'd much rather believe them.And the issue with Del Po was that he looked to his box before challenging as well.Not to mention,when Del Po challenged they were pretty much in the changeover.
As for not conceding one point to Novak( BTW-He did concede another one without Novak even challenging.) I simply dont think the guy trusts or likes the Hawkeye.He'd much rather have an umpire making these calls.According to him,its the umpires job and not the players' job to keep a check on these calls and he dosent know if system takes into account how the ball travels,the 3 dimensions of the ball etc..Not to mention,I dont think the players have been properly educated about the system and its rules are not well-defined which is why he asked "Do you have any rules in place?" or something to that effect.

I also dont think Roger's rant was directed at Garner in particular but the lack of regulation in the system itself and its incorporation.

Ricky, can you clear up something? In the 4th set tiebreak Del Potro served what looked like a double fault at 4-2. Somebody in the crowd shouted out and Fed stopped playing the point. Then he argued with the umpire and after he wouldn't allow the point to be replayed Fed said ,"Well can I challenge?" The umpire allowed it and replay showed that it was indeed out therefore it should have been a double fault. Why did they give Del Potro a first serve do-over? It seemed to me that even Fed thought the challenge should not have been allowed and sportingly agreed to play the point over. However, the fact remains that somebody in the crowd saw it was out yet the linesperson made no call. Do you know who decided to play the point over after the challenge showed it was a double fault and Del Potro still ended up winning the point to go up 5-2 instead of 4-3? This could have changed the course of the tiebreak if allowed to stand. This takes nothing however from a wonderful performance by a deserving winner Del Potro.

"It seemed to me that even Fed thought the challenge should not have been allowed and sportingly agreed to play the point over."-Thats right actually.Seeing the look on his face I dont think he expected to be allowed to challenge that one.

hi janhavi.........
well this rumbles on, doesn't it?
well - there is an "unwritten" rule ricky/cheryl - its called - 'challenging within the 2-5 second rule", everyone is talking about it in tennis circles, you only have to read ALL the debate out there. The ATP need to clarify the rule and am sure they will get around to doing it. The only thing federer did wrong was to swear and as pretty much EVERY SINGLE TENNIS PLAYER OUT THERE -EXCEPT- FEDERER UNTIL THAT MOMENT, has sworn. I dont know what the big deal is. He swore. He got fined -. He paid for the fine. End of issue. And if someone puts their hand up - its a gesture to be quiet and to stop what ever you are doing. Simple. You dont have to put your hand up and say - 'be quiet', just by putting up your hand - that's what it means.

- and i think in view of the world championships in Berlin - its going to be Usain Bolt that wins the sportsman award. just because federer swore, doesnt mean he shouldnt still win the award after all the success he has had this year. Lets not lose sight of that, and lets remember that without federer in tennis, the hypocrites out there (non-fans and journalists) would have nothing left to write about.
This is what becker had to say (on both Federer and Serena)
Boris Becker
19 September, 2009
"In a perfect scenario you shouldn't swear at the umpire or the linesman, but I was also one of the guys who did that -- thank God in my days we didn't have that many mics on the court, so you couldn't really hear everything.

"It is really unfortunate for her to do it at match-point down. It is really something for such an experienced player. It shouldn't have happened, but she is human. I think she apologized after, but that's the reason she lost, I think, and that's the biggest penalty she can ever get."
Federer?
The 28-year-old went into the New York hardcourt event on Cloud Nine after becoming a father to twin baby girls, having married longtime partner Mirka Vavrinec in April, but saw Del Potro emerge as a real threat to his dominance as Nadal and Andy Murray fell away.
"He's in a difficult phase in a high-comfort level because there is nothing else to prove anymore, to himself or the fans," Becker said.
"So I think he is going to go back and enjoy his new babies and new wife by then he is going to regroup and restructure for next year's Grand Slams."
Federer has won the Laureus World Sportsman Of The Year title for the last four years, but Becker believes he may miss out in 2009 to Jamaican sprinting star Usain Bolt --? who followed up his triple golds from the 2008 Beijing Olympics with more records in winning three titles at the World Athletics Championships.
"Well yesterday evening at two sets to one for Federer it would have been a sure bet," Becker said. "But him not winning now puts everything in a new race and Usain Bolt winning other gold medals at the world championships obviously is a strong frontrunner."

Roger Federer had a "blip". so what? Andy R and Andy M have them ALL THE TIME. big deal.

chr18 - it was a first serve.

Del Potro hit the serve, Federer played it back, Del Potro hit a winner. Federer did not go for DP's winner because he heard an out call. Jake Garner then asked the linesperson if it was the linesperson who made the call. Linesperson said no, it was a fan. So point went to Del Potro.

Federer then asked if he could at least challenge. Despite it being 30 seconds later, Garner allowed him to challenge due to all of the confusion.

The review showed that the serve was out. Keep in mind this was a FIRST SERVE. So Del Potro at the very least would get another serve. Because so much time had elapsed, Garner was forced to give DP a first serve.

So, no, Del Potro never came close to double-faulting. The serve he missed was a first serve. Then he got another first serve since Federer spent so much time arguing with Garner.

janhavi, the commentators were almost as far away from the court as I was. LOL. They said he was silenced because Roger said "don't tell me to be quiet". but if you watch the clip, you'll see that the statement he made prior to that was "don't put your hand up to me". Garner did NOT say the words "be quiet". How could he have? He was MAKING AN ANNOUNCEMENT into his microphone. I think we would have heard.

But if you choose to ignore the facts, more power to you. Apparently the USTA thinks it was Roger in the wrong and not Garner.

Roger said "Dont tell me to be quiet" a little after Garner announced the scores on the microphone..As to how far the commentators were-I cannot say.I believe them however.
As for the USTA-I dont know if we'll ever know if they think Garner was wrong.

malteser, that's EXACTLY our point. It's an UNWRITTEN rule. Which means to say, not a rule at all.

And not to repeat what Ricky said, but Federer didn't have any trouble breaking it later in the match.

You are correct Ricky. I just watched it over on youtube. When I watched it live I didn't hear the let call on the previous serve and assumed it a fault. Nonetheless Fed was sporting in going along with Del Potro getting a first serve and not a second serve after replay showed it was out. All in all the better man won.

Roger asked if he could challenge..he did not demand.And its the umpire's job to uphold the rules first.Or are we passing that duty on the players too?
The rule itself is inconsistent.

let me clarify-Rules re:the Challenge system.

I just wanna congratulate torres for bringing Rafa into another discussion about Roger or any other player.
Congratulations man,you deserved it!

paul hawkins has explained numerous time how the 3 dimensional ball travelling through the air and landing is calculated and averaged out. what the naked eye sees isn't always the same as what the computer measure. also, what appears to be out - and 'technically' would be can end up being in - result of the ball's impact on hitting ground and flattening out when compressed, so when it's close enough, the ball ends up touching the line, even just, but it touches. then is uncompresses and bounces off and can look out. all up, i believe it's still to a 3mm accuracy. anyway, fed has had numerous wrong calls even where balls are way out, and sometimes he knows it (like some others). he's most vocal about it. much better than having players like jmc take 7 mins to argue with a linejudge or umpire right through a match.

malteser, that's EXACTLY our point. It's an UNWRITTEN rule. Which means to say, not a rule at all. cherylmurray , 9/19/09 8:02 PM

cheryl, ALL SPORTS.......have 'express' rules and 'implied' rules. just because one isn't written in the ATP rule book, doesnt mean its not a'rule'. Huge debate about this on Sky and Eurosports........after it happened........am not arguing with you cheryl, am just saying it is not as clear cut as you make it sound. it most certainly isnt a rule because you say so. sorry. but i got into the debate - it was on for an hour on TV. and stayed up to take part. it should be written down for clarification - yes -and that's exactly what federer said at the start of his argument - have watched the clip over and over - he asked for clarification just before he sat down next to umpire and you could hear what he was saying............anyhow -..................... its over and so whats the point? Roger had every right to be upset about what happened, he just shouldnt have sworn, but he paid the price for that. He can now join the queue with the rest of the other players over the last.....100 years who have all sworn in a tennis match. yady yady yah. Mcenroe, Roddick and Murray still are at the top, federer is way, way below in terms of swearing. this wont change his perception of being a great tennis champion.......no matter how many people want to take a pop at him. He's too brilliant, too unique, and too special..............
C'mon!

phoenix, you have my vote for malty = maxi = malty.

The way I see it, Fed deserved all the sportsmanship award he got. Maybe not this year where he was in trouble a lot and got massive pressure from the press and all.

I would like to clear out that there's a difference between keeping quiet and humble.

Just because other players are more quiet than Fed, doesn't mean they are more 'sportmanlike'. After a match ends, I think Fed does well in being friendly towards the player on the other side of the court.

Even this year, where there are some controversies, Fed still is very friendly to other players.

Just because other players are reserved and keep quiet and not offend anybody doesn't mean they are more deserving than Fed.

Even Delpo has had some 'bad manners' moment. Remember 'you and your mom. always the same'?

Fed vents out some frustration. Everyone does. It is just that he is always on primetime TV that he gets the bad rep from reporters, bloggers, Rafans.

But people still love him. Everyone knows Fed is harmless and the friendliest guy in ATP Tour.

WRONG STU! but glad to see you here after such a long time...........(you and phoenix would make crappy D.I's - never solving any mysteries!). The terrible twosome!)

I am going to sccrreeeeammmmmmmmmmm................

I am supposed to be deepz as well.....yeah right stu.........good one.....


say what you like...........all of you.................not interested anymore...............

zoey..........I am also NOT deepz......(just because i write in a similar way......?
I'll speak to you later..............
thanks for email sky.............
stu.......are you also max on this site? you seem similar to me................?

maxi - (if you read this) dont rise to the bait........this is what it gets like.......leave it...........

stu...you could answer a question for me though.......what's happened to Agf? not seen his/her name for ages n' ages.........???????

Serena is lucky this happened, actually. It took a small amt of heat off her. Can you believe she's been off here and there pimping her book, and as far as I've heard, no further fines or punishments have been instituted?

If there was a mic or camera on the men regularly during changeovers, our ears might bleed! I think Fed's was mild compared to some I've heard in person.

Did I read right that Daniel Nestor got fined? What did he do?

Nestor basically went ballistic on everyone within hearing distance after he and Zimonjic lost to Mirnyi and Ram in the Open quarterfinals

Not sure exactly what specific verbal abuse the fine was for, but he pretty much went off on everyone. Mostly Ram.

he got the fine for having a "run-in" with a fan. I don't think the match was televised, so I'm not sure what was said.

cheryl/ricky, do a lot of players on tour get fined for 'abusing' chair umpires because they must take a lot of heat? i remember ruzedski was a big culprit, i saw him once (might have been wimb many yrs ago) hurl a string of endless colourful words at the chair umpire. the guys just sat there and stared blankly at greg as if to say "here we go again". i wonder what match officials in yrs past felt before a jmc match!!!

The fact is rules are rules, if there's one man out there who knows the rules its Federer, you must call immediately! It's not the money, to Federer the rules count alot to him, that's why he is so professional, dont call out after several minutes, you must call out immediately. Federer is in the RIGHT!!

The stupid thing was fofe that..............
Hawkeye ruled in Federer's favour................Del Potro challenged an out call which had given Federer the game...................... Federer was protesting the umpire's allowing Del Potro too much time before he decided to challenge. ...........Federer was not protesting the call itself, which was correct, but the umpire's failure to enforce the regulation that says a challenge must be immediate.....................Even those who like the hawkeye system agree that the guidelines governing it are too vague and erratically enforced........................
zoey.........i think my post to you has been lost..........i cant find it anywhere.............am not ignoring you so when you next on.........stick to a fed thread and i'll find you!!!!!!............hope you are okay..................mwah!

But people still love him. Everyone knows Fed is harmless and the friendliest guy in ATP Tour.

torres9 , 9/19/09 11:56 PM


Correction - NOT everyone, don't speak for me!

...not for me also....God save me...
...friendliest guy...Torres U have beeen smoking something strong???
He has not one friend in locker room...not one!!!

I dont think the amount of the fine is relevant. They just wanted to have Roger not let off the hook hen others like Vera and Nestor were fined in the same tournament.
I am not a Roger fan but I dont think anyone can compare what he said to what Serena did. Roger did not threaten anyone and he did not shake his racquet at the umpire threateningly.

And anyway, even if he had been fined $10,000, do we really think it makes a dent in Roger's wallet??:))

and don't speak for me too. federer is not the friendliest guy in ATP tour but the most ARROGANT!

Nam1, even if he was fined $500000 it wouldn't make too much impact.

He has not 1 friend? LOL... I'm pretty sure he has more locker room frens than Nadal.

Nadal is friendlier with other players.

Neither Federer nor Nadal is at the top of the friendliest.

Inquiring minds want to know ... who is the friendliest, Ricky ? :)

LOL ricky, Nadal is only friendly with the spanish players

disrespectful comment ricky...............Roger is ALWAYS around to sign autos......give interviews............and talk to his fans..........AND has been voted most popular player on ATP tour - interview upon interview...............by henman......lubijic.........hewitt.......roddick........(most).....pla yers on tour have stated how friendly and approachable federer is - so why the sour grapes? an insight (preview) before any of the major tournaments are given on TV channels.......you can see what the players think of each other............just because that is your view.........doesnt mean it is shared by others..............

if i had to guess, i'd say Nando Dasco. he's always hugging everyone he meets!
at the bottom? the Andys.

Ricky is just a biased journalist who obviously is a Rafan. He even predicted Nadal would win USO...LOL...

I think Ricky also predicted that Federer would win. Whoops.

Yup, he only picked Fed after Nadal got hammered.

I think Fed's popularity among the players is definitely not due to his unfriendliness

I had Federer winning Wimbledon in 2009 the day he lost to Nadal in 2008

most people - fairweather Federer fans included - thought he was washed up for good and would never win another slam.

clearly people here have different definitions of friendly. Anyone who thinks Nadal and Federer are at the tops in terms of being friends with a lot of different players, is simply incorrect.

And for what its worth, Nadal blows Federer away in friendliness toward the media.

and don't speak for me as well!!

it's not about whether a fine makes a dent in a player's wallet. that is totally out of point.

we all make predictions about might win. it's not a crime for gods sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

torres9: not true, Rafa v. friendly with Andy M. They met at tennis school in Barcelona.

that's YOUR opinion ricky..........NOT shared by millions of others.............NOR shared by past champions......or TV channels.........ior me.........interview AFTER interview stating clearly how friendly/approachable federer is...........you obviously got a problem with him..........your opinion is your opinion and to me....not worth a whole lot...........being a federer fan for a long time now.............though i understand you got to make a living from trashing the best player ever...........otherwise, what would you do?................?

As a top player, Rafa stood up to be counted in defence of Gasquet, you know who notably sat on the fence. I am sure that Rafa's saying he knew Gasquet well, and didn't think he would induldge in drugs, helped the authorities to believe Gasquet's account of events.

To gain the respect of the locker room, you have to be able to step outside the comfort zone of just showing a smiley face, it's how you manifest caring towards other players in times of adversity that counts, and slowly the players will come to appreciate who their real friends are.

A friend in need, is a friend indeed.

VAMOS RAFA!

Oh wow! Now Malty is onto Ricky. What's up with you guys! Why can't you accept that not everybody looks up to federer like a god? Your hero has feet of clay, same as all of us. Chill!!!

ricky, ya, as intense rivals, it's pretty hard for them to be 'close' friends at this level, plus rafa with his english lanuage. but he's definitely friendly with the press, at least the numerous times i've watched. rafa also tried to spend as much time with moya on tour, they were close i believe. otherwise, it's hard travelling as a singles player with an 'older' team. i've seen serena get testy sometimes, and fed too at pressers. if you've lost a macth, it's even more difficult to show your better side.

...and treat the two imposters just the same! - easier to be nice when you win, no?

lol,you've gotta love Roger's fans' (i.e. blind followers) sensitivity. I would oppose anyone who disrespects Roger as a tennis player simply because his achievements are beyond human and he's one of the greatest (no GOAT discussion please) but I don't get this sense of having to like him as a human being as well.I can see him having some negative features,just like I can see Rafa's bad habits.They're just human beings,not Gods,lol,even though you put Roger into such a position.

And for what its worth, Nadal blows Federer away in friendliness toward the media-Ricky.

LOL... that is ridiculous... Fed is being labeled as a 'too much of a media darling' and you say he's not friendly to the media?

So the media loves the Fed more because he is less friendly than Nadal.

SO12, no arguments there. But because he is human, it should not be a surprise if he gets frustrated for being told to 'keep quiet' (he thought) while trying to give a point to the umpire.

of course,I understand Roger's frustration as he had a point about the content of his argument but still,I can't understand how can anyone defend the fact that he actually swore to the umpire no matter what.

Has anyone ever listened, watched and/or observed David Ferrer's language and behaviour on court? I think Ferrer far surpasses any of the players with his foul mouthed expletives which are uttered in Spanish, and is less discernible than the English speaking players. Tommy Haas is another foul-mouthed player, who does his dirty deeds in German. In sum, they all do it, but the guys who speak English are the ones most targeted.

With respect to players being friendly towards each other, a lot of that embracing and hugging is media driven to earn them kudos and project a fan friendly image, IMO. I think deep down inside a few of them absolutely despise some of their colleagues, however, they put up a nice facade to impress the media and fans. Some of us like to see that kind of interaction and are impressed by it, but we should also not be too gullible to believe everything we see, and/or hear, thereby anointing some players as 'nice guys'. It's mano a mano on the court and niceness is probably last on the players' list of priorities. However, if a player wants to change his image, I think he'll definitely focus on the nice guy persona and good sportsmanship behaviour on court.

Von - Ferrer and Haas are not bad sports. They are HILARIOUS.

They berate themselves constantly. But they don't berate anyone else. That's why they never get in trouble.

Ricky: I agree they are both funny to watch, but don't you think Haas loses it with the umpires quite a few times? Ljubicic also gets into it with the umpires, especially at IW with Fergus Murphy, it was comical.

I'm not one who becomes disjointed if a player gets hot around the collar and blows his cool with the umpires, however, I don't like it that some are selectivedly targeted and others are given a free pass. I think in Federer's case (and no, I'm not a Fed fan) his outburst was somewhat justified with respect to the amount of time DelPotro took to challenge. DelPotro is slowly becoming a time waster on court and is developing some very poor on-court habits.

well, Fergus Murphy has a special talent for making players angry. Can't blame ol' Ljubo for getting irritated at him. :)

"DelPotro is slowly becoming a time waster on court and is developing some very poor on-court habits."

?

regardless of what player(s) you root for, I think we can all agree that this is awesome:

http://www.gototennisblog.com/2009/09/21/video-roger-feder er-sings-for-switzerland/

? Ricky: Elaborate please.

I'm still laughing ... Ricky ... hilarious.

Fed shouldn't use the F-word but even if didn't, it's still pretty much a very strong confrontation. Like if you take out the F-word, he would have said 'Dont tell me what to do!!' <--Same thing

I think he was fined for the F-word, not for the complaining. So it was due to poor judgemen in Fed's part, not bad sportsmanship whateva.

yeah, he was fined for audible obscenities. If they fined people just for arguing, the ATP would be RICH.

Congratulations! Rafa won the ITWF award! \:D/
The ITWF award is an award presented to an individual to celebrate their great character in dealing with the media. The prize is presented to an individual who is respectful, mannerly and professional with the media.

Vamos Rafa! <3 (While Rafa was the ATP recipient of the award, Ana Ivanovic was the one to receive the award on the WTA side.)

I am a huge fan of these types of awards because "Good character is more to be praised than outstanding talent. Most talents are to some extent a gift. Good character, by contrast, is not given to us. We have to build it piece by piece by thought, choice, courage and determination."
****

"A man is measured by the size of things that anger him."

It is extremely important to remember that these tennis players are not God.
Roger Federer's fans (though quick to forget it) are often reminded of this tiny but integral fact and will often admit it themselves when Roger is in this type of situation. I hate to generalize, so I'll admit upfront that there are definitely exceptions. One of the reasons most Federer fans accept the emotional outburst during the AO 2009 trophy ceremony (and this one as well) is because they feel that it shows that "Roger is human".

YES! He is! Many have been saying this all along. I believe this is one of the things that makes Rafa very different from Roger. I'm talking about Rafa the PERSON and Roger the PERSON. Rafa continually reminds us of who he is. Through his actions and the manner in which he conducts himself..you could easily forget that he's a multi-millionaire tennis rock star (if it weren't for the crazed fans and media attention). Roger on the other hand exudes his status. While one is content to place his jewels in a draw, the other makes a point to drape himself with it. I'm not going to say that one is better than the other, but it does reflect on each of these individuals' CHARACTER. After all, one of the greatest things about their rivalry is how dissimilar they are as individuals (though don't get me wrong, there are definitely similarities between these two).

It is a waste of time to argue about Roger's personality. Rafa's fans love Rafa for him. We admit and accept him for who he is and how he is. Shortcomings and all. Rafa is a stubborn mule who can make immature decisions. He rarely runs a brush through his hair and sometimes goes without ironing his shirt. I admit it and I still love him. Because even though he frustrates me with his stubbornness to the point where I want to literally grab him by the ear (gently though) and scold him (I probably couldn't resist giving him a hug right after ripping him a new one), he is still all the other great things we love about him (I'll spare you the list, believe me, it's a long one). We know Rafa is a human. We know he makes mistakes. We know he doesn't do certain things as well as he should/could. But we acknowledge that and even openly discuss it, and still, at the end of the day, we love him to bits (disheveled hair, wrinkled shirt and all).

So my question to Roger Federer fans is: If Rafans can admit when Rafa isn't doing well, or making the best decision, or whatever and STILL love him and support him, then why can't you? You do love Roger for who he is, right? Not only for what he's accomplished? It shouldn't be hard to say, "Roger was so frustrated here by the lack of competent officiating. I completely sympathize with him but he really shouldn't have spoken to the umpire like that. A champion of his stature is better than this. He was fined and I hope he never lets his temper get the better of him. After all, he used to be much worse than this. He's worked very hard to get his temper under control.....(etc.)

That's not hard and doing so doesn't make you less of a fan. If you truly love Roger, than surly you must notice and acknowledge his flaws and weakness and still love him in spite of them, right? A friend of mind is exactly like that. I remember we were watching one of Roger's press conferences and Roger made one of his Rogeresque statements (I can't recall what he said exactly but it's one of his comments when he's complimenting an opponent in a very back-handed way. You know the ones). Anyway, in the middle of the conference I turned to her and rolled my eyes. Before I could open my mouth and comment she put her hand up and said with a sigh "Yeah, I know, I know. Rogi sometimes doesn't know when to be quiet. He can definitely put his foot in his mouth" then she pauses as if reflecting on all the times Federer's done this. She then shakes her head, sighs and gives a smile and says "...BUT, I still love him".

It's a kind of unconditional love. Like a mother for her children. One family member to another, a friend to a friend, a husband for his wife. We all know that the other has flaws and weaknesses. How can we not?! We know each other too well, and love each other too much to not notice these things! But what makes it unconditional love is that IN SPITE of all of those shortcomings that we human beings are afflicted with, it never keeps us from still loving each other.

I don't know. Maybe Roger fans are embarrassed by these weaknesses. Maybe because of the nature of these flaws, they are best swept under a rug and denied. But isn't it a part of being a true fan? Admitting when your favorite has done wrong, yet still loving him/her and supporting them?

While Rafa constantly reminds us that he's human, not perfect and most definitely not better than anybody else because he can hit a ball over the net. Roger Federer is an extremely PROUD individual. He has no problems reminding us of his greatness and because he exudes his status, he carries himself with an air of arrogance and entitlement. I think arguing about it is like arguing that there are lines on the court. He's a human. He has flaws. And pride and arrogance are character flaws. But that doesn't mean that he's a bad person. And that doesn't negate all the great things he is and has. But if his own fans can't admit it with a sigh while pointing out the good things he is, then maybe his fans are not really loving Roger Federer. Just the great bits. Like a husband and wife, a true fan needs to be able to see whomever they support in the morning before they wash-up and still love them.

Ricky Dimon, I showed that video of Roger singing to my FedFanFriend. Her reactions? "GOSH! Rogi SUCKS at singing! Stick to tennis, PLEASE!"
I turned to her chuckling after I had replayed it for the 5th time and I said, "But you still love him, right?" She gave me a playful nudge while raising her eyebrows: "Of course I do! Now more than ever actually! He's such a dork!".

Now THAT is what I call unconditional love.

Heck, have you SEEN Rafa's taste in music?! I'm the first to admit that it is absolutely AWFUL! But, I say that he can be taught better and that he still rocks my socks. Plus, his choices (no matter how TERRIBLE they are) show that he's such a romantic. And THAT is another reason for loving Rafa more (I never thought it possible). :D

I think I'm going to go and reset my FedFanFriend's cell-phone's ring-tone to Roger's ode to Swiss.
"We (the Swiss) are the best!" PAH! The magic of unconditional love and support. Or is it delusion? Waita minute, is there a difference? :))

Agree with everything MiniArbre.

I have a feeling, I may be wrong, that Fedfans in general love his achievements more than him. Yes, I know we can all only love our favourites as tennis players, because we don't know them as real people, but I have to also say, that Rafa actually exudes the same things that I like and admire about all the other favourites I champion in music and art, he is my type of person; so his looks, yes looks and personality are very much a part of it, and his tennis ticks all the boxes as well. He doesn't always win, and that's what keeps the excitement and butterflies going everytime he takes to the court and it's even sweeter when he does win, because it's never a forgone conclusion.

Rafa's award for being polite, friendly and professional actually depicts the man, also his respect for his opponents, no matter whether they are WCs or qualifiers.

VAMOS RAFA!

My dear if u want i can post the link to videos where rafa is complimenting the players with backstabbing .

Max, I want - post the links.

I'm interested too. Please post the links.

Miniarbre......as you know....I am a MASSIVE.federer fan and I LOVED YOUR POST..........I accept Roger's weaknesses and I give him my unconditional love....rightly or wrongly ALWAYS.............furthermore...........i personally feel that roger had a point.............its not a case of roger being -wrong-----...he was wrong to swear.no question. but you would have thought that he had..uh hum............ hit someone in the crowd?......... the amount of fuss this has caused, and it is still going on, all this time..........apart from this mini..............roddick....haas......murray swear all the time..........ALL THE TIME...........This umpire also got it wrong (Garner) Del Potro was doing noticeably illegal (by tennis rules) stuff and that challenge was way too late. He shouldnt have been asking for help from his coaching team.........they shouldnt have been telling him to challenge............An exact 10 seconds too late. Fed had just had enough. When a guy like Federer, someone who sticks the rules like glue, says something about those very rules.........then you listen............... It would be different if he did this all the time. He NEVER does this. Count the times mini that you have heard federer swear........count them............and count the times he questions the umpire................So when he does, you better believe it's legitimate.................

And when the number 1 player in the world, largely considered the G.O.A.T. (certainly by me) and 5 time winner of the tournament says to stop letting the guy cheat..................the umpire needs to pay attention............... . This is nonsense. If a player is making a complaint about something that is a rule enforcement issue (isn't that what the umpire is there for?), then the umpire needs to listen...................Fed rarely says anything about the officiating...............and that's the point. I have no problem in saying that roger was wrong in swearing here - but in the scheme of things - with the others doing it? nah.....sorry..........the guy is still fantastic in my eyes and had a major point in the final of a grand slam.......

Phoenix..........in answer to your question................no different to carrie sticking up for rafa when ricky had a pop at him on another thread.........as is my right........... nothing wrong with that.............

ricky.........LOVED THE VIDEO OF FEDERER!

sky/zoey.....if you see this thread - just watch the link ricky has posted - it is hilarious!!!!!!!!! OMG!

:-) I see that you are now on your meds again. Don't fail to take them next time, malty. Sober is cool!

max, I'm really looking forward to the links you promised, please post them.


VAMOS RAFA!

carrie - have posted a reference on other thread - dubai 07 - google that - you'll find what u need.

malteser, could you tell me exactly what he said translated into English?

The link I am waiting for from max, is where Rafa was backstabbing to people who beat him.

LOL... Now that Rafa also did what Fed did, Rafans are doing all the defending now.

It's just normal to cuss just as long as you don't do it 24/7 like if Roger went to the press conference and continued his rant towards the umpire, i would not have defended him at all.

Most Rafans did not give props for Fed giving credit to Delpo (which Nadal failed to do in Indian Wells saying 'Delpo didn't play unbelievable, just that I play bad). Some did so good for them.

I just think Rafa and Roger are just the same in terms of giving credit to opponents. I remembered the RF:Spirit of the champion vid I saw where Rafa kept pointing out he have beaten Fed which would not be taken lightly if it was Fed who did it.

Rafans would have said it's a 'backhanded compliment'. What I think is, nobody can talk without offending others 100% and having to think so much of what they are talking before they talk. I think Roger has been giving credit to Rafa so much and I dont see why Rafans should hate a man who promotes Rafa so much saying 'he's my no.1 rival' and 'his game is unbelievable' so many times.

All this hatred towards Fed comes partly to the fact that he wins 90% of the time and like it or not, it's in the expense of all the other players because there can only be 1 winner anyway.

haha ricky! i'm glad i saw that hidden between all the arguing! i don't think i've ever seen him let loose like that haha

torres.............
well said.............when you are reasonable torres........you are.............................. v-e-r-y, v-e-r-y, cool..........man.

carrie - the dubai 07 vid is in English and in Spanish - check it out on ESPN website and look up the spanish word for 's**t'. (surely everyone knows that?).........then you'll know that rafa said it. very clearly...........
does it matter?................... not really...............because he is still a great player.................but just accept he 'aint no mother theresa'.....no one is.............and stop trying to paint him whiter than white..............he swore carrie, he smashed his racquet on court, he argued with umpire when Youzhny got the point (that was in by a fraction.........) rafa was 'furious'. just accept that your player has weaknesses in his personality too........

fan4tennis............you been a very quiet lady for the last few days...........i understand with all this unnecessary squabbling...............hope you are okay?

zoey? are you taking cover too right now?...............i understand..........hoping for a speedy few months when AO is here and we can see roger play again...........i know London 02 is just around the corner and the masters, but the slams are where its at!!!!!!!

c'mon!
Allez Federer!

I too am hoping for a speedy few months before AO. Can't wait to see the ARROGANT ONE make a fool of himself again. :-)

It's true that Rafa did not play well in Miami, his parents seperation had come to a head, and his knees were beginning to trouble him, fact.

carrie, nice attempt on changing the topic when u cant find any points anymore.

phoenix, Rafa makes a fool out of himself on court all the time not just in AO.LOL

You really are living up to your image, an APE (remember this word?).
Cannot think of something original to say and just echo what I say.

'Most Rafans did not give props for Fed giving credit to Delpo (which Nadal failed to do in Indian Wells saying 'Delpo didn't play unbelievable, just that I play bad). Some did so good for them'.

torres9 , 9/22/09 9:06 PM



**************************

It's true that Rafa did not play well in Miami, his parents separation had come to a head, and his knees were beginning to trouble him, fact.

carrie , 9/22/09 10:37 PM

**********************************
torres, which topic have I changed. This was a response to what you said above. I am confused!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak8GRRFBN54

Is this the video everyone is referring to?
I don't understand all of the bickering. Did anyone deny that Rafa uses a curse word? If so, then there's the proof that he does.

However, let me make one little distinction between (the then 20 year old) Rafa and Roger. First of all, I think that if we have to go back to 2007 when Rafa hasn't even reached his 21st birthday to find evidence of "misbehavior", then I think that sums up the ridiculousness of this whole argument. This isn't a matter of "Look! Rafa cursed too! Roger isn't the only one!" This is about Roger Federer's behavior at the US Open in 2009. It is about HIM and what he has done. Not Rafa and what he did.

Secondly, there IS a difference between what Rafa did and what Roger did (no, it has nothing to do with how adorably cute Rafa looks when he's upset. Though, my FedererFanFriend would argue that Roger looks just as cute when he's peeved.) The difference lies (and I think this is VERY important) in HOW the curse words were used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NfLZGZ-ULg

I distinctly remember that Rafa vs Youzhny match. I remember thinking Rafa looks gorgeous in blue. I remember thinking what it would be like to live in the hotel the players were guests in. I remember screaming at the TV that the ball was out. I also remember that the announcers, umpire and even Youzhny HIMSELF thought that the ball was out. As correctly stated in the info section of the YouTube video:
*****
"Nadal: "I say to him, 'look, the ball is out', and he (the umpire) say 'I know'.
Even Youzhny agreed the ball was out.
"It looked like it was out," said Youzhny. "I saw the mark, but I just took the challenge because it was a very important point. When it showed it was good I was a little bit shocked."
*******

But all of that is beside the point I'm trying to make. Of course it's frustrating when you feel that injustice has been done to you. No body likes to be cheated, it's icky, it's wrong. Serena felt she was wronged and reacted in the way she did. Roger felt that the umpire wasn't enforcing the rules and so he felt cheated. Rafa (along with everyone else except Hawkeye) thought the ball was out, and because even his OPPONENT agreed, it was especially frustrating.

The difference though, lies in how each of these individuals handled the situation.
It's important to point out that they are individuals with different personalities, character, temperaments and experiences. All that needs to be considered when looking at their respective reactions. Of course it's easy to say that neither one of them should have reacted in the way that they have. But really, comparing the three of them, I'd say that Rafa's "outburst" doesn't even compare to Serena's and Roger's. Rafa's seems like a mild (even childish) temper tantrum more than anything.

On to the "the difference" between Roger and Rafa. Many people have pointed out that you can't compare Serena to Roger because Serena threatened the linesperson. I say, you can't compare Roger to Rafa because Roger was cursing AT the umpire and Rafa was cursing AT...the air? It ISN'T the same thing.

That's the first thing I noticed when I re-watched the videos. Not only was Roger's outburst lengthier than Rafa's (Roger even continued his Anti-Hawkeye crusade later in his presser) but he was also hostile towards the umpire and cursed at the umpire. Rafa tossed the ball to the ground in frustration, approached the chair saying "the ball was out", accepted the call (begrudgingly), sat down on the chair like I see disgruntled kindergardners do when told to take a time-out, and shouted a word (that one would hope) is not in a kindergardener's vocabulary. But to be honest, I don't even think he shouted it. I think it was more of a silent scream. You see his mouth moving, his body tense up, but there is no sound coming out. But it wasn't DIRECTED at any INDIVIDUAL.

That is why I think that a player isn't fined or warned when they curse under their breaths or simply (like in Rafa's case) mouth the word. The penalty is called "Audible Obscenity". So if a player, take Murray for example, is frustrated and drops an F-bomb, as long as it isn't DIRECTED at someone else or HEARD, then they get away with it. After all, that is why the violation isn't called "Warning: Mr Murray, I saw his lips move and mouth a word that I believe to be not-so-nice."
The umpire has to HEAR it, because usually if the umpire hears it, then the audiences at home hear it. They understand that these words exist, and that these players DO get frustrated, and to express that frustration they resort to using curse words (like most of the adult world).

But, like many rules on the ATP, this particular one is enforced arbitrarily. Sometimes an umpire will let an audible obscenity slip if they feel that the player is frustrated and at a critical point in a match. But normally if it is directed at an umpire or a linesperson, you've crossed the line and they don't excuse you.

But that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be punished for it when it's appropriate (and like Malteser said, Roger was wrong.) He wasn't wrong for being frustrated, he was wrong for talking to the umpire in that manner and cursing at the umpire.
Of course it's normal to get frustrated. And if a player feels that something is wrong they SHOULD confront the umpire as the officials should be held accountable and the players should stand up for themselves. But there is a way of going about things, and for a champion of Roger's stature, his way wasn't the right way. Period.

*sigh* I'm not a fan of arguing online. But I really felt that I should step in and point that out.

***

Carrie and Malteser (like the candy right? :) ), thank you for your responses.
Torres9, I think Cheryl explained that Rafa/Del Potro situation beautifully in her blog "Rumors About Nadal Fly in Miami".

http://tennistalk.com/en/blog/Cheryl_Murray/20090404/Rumors_about_ Nadal_fly_in_Miami

This is what Rafa said happened:

Nadal: "I say to him, 'look, the ball is out', and he say 'I know'.
Even Youzhny agreed the ball was out.
"It looked like it was out," said Youzhny. "I saw the mark, but I just took the challenge because it was a very important point. When it showed it was good I was a little bit shocked."

I have watched this video many times, and I still haven't heard the swear word, in spanish or english.

carrie , 9/23/09 7:37 PM

*nods head* I understand why it's hard for you to spot the curse word. Rafa basically mouths it in frustration as he's sitting down. You have to read his lips. He says the world "puta" (?), but you can't actually HEAR it and it wasn't directed at anybody in particular. Just a frustrated out burst at the air.

Oh, you also have to know Spanish to realize that it's a curse word. I'm one of those who was guilty of innocence when it came to Spanish curse words. I didn't know what it was until my friend pointed it out. He said that when used as slang it's the equivalent of the 'F-word' in english.

Puta is not a swear word, it's a description of a woman of low repute, and I don't see how relevant that was in the circumstances, for one thing, there was no woman involved in the dispute, so I still don't accept that Rafa did swear.

What Rafa did is not the same as Roger saying profanities directly to the chair umpire. I don't know how anyone can even hear what Rafa is saying, because I couldn't hear a thing. All I saw was Rafa mouthing something as he sat down. It is true that Rafa didn't address it at the chair umpire. He was letting out his frustration. Roger's incident was worse because he had an actual conversation with the chair umpire and addressed the profanity to him directly. So the two are not the same.

But one more time, I have to say that I don't understand why this video of Rafa should even be the subject of discussion. If you have to go back two years to find any evidence of Rafa getting angry about a call, that is saying something. These two incidents are NOT analogous. I have discussed this to death and don't have anything more to say.

rafa swore when he sat down on the chair - then smashed his racquet on the floor. deny it all you like......

mini, i enjoy reading your posts............much better than mine...........a little biased in places perhaps ....but that's your call................and you are a tad witty too, which i like...............good that some rafa fans have a sense of humour...............this is for the fedfans out there..........zoey.......where are you girl?

for an insight into the wonderful, 'non-singing' roger federer...(love that guy!)......here are a few excerpts..........and lovely that justin henin has given a recent interview saying that it was 'roger federer', NOT Kim Clijsters who influenced her decision to return..............go:roger:go!!!!!!!!!

Federer on the new baby routine:

?I?m lucky,? he says, ?in that I have never been a guy with a strict routine.? He does not labor under the tennis players? paranoia about regular practice, diet, and sleep. ?When the baby comes, I love the idea that if I?m up at five or six in the morning, I?ll just go and practice then, stuff like that.?

Federer his off-court ambitions:

In his juggling of tournament commitments and family, Federer also wants to find increasing time to work on his charitable foundation supporting children?s projects in sub-Saharan Africa. ?My mum is from South Africa, and she has seen a lot of poverty in that country. It?s easy for me to give shirts and rackets and all of that, but obviously I would like to get down there and give more time as soon as I can,? he says.

On Pete Sampras?s appearance at the Wimbledon final:

?Pete came to his seat at two to one in the first set,? Federer recalls. ?As I walked up to the service line, it was like I could hear him thinking, All right, Roger, let?s see what you got.?

Federer on coming back after a disappointing Australian Open:

?I was supersad for maybe an hour after Australia,? he says. ?I couldn?t escape it; I lost control of it a bit on court. And then I start reading, ?It?s all over for Federer.? I was immediately: ?What are you talking about?? ?

federer is the b-e-s-t...................

allez le federer!
C'mon!

Miniarbre,

I see that you pretty much made the case that I was trying to make. I really like reading your posts. They are lengthy, like mine, but thoughtful and well reasoned. If I had read yours first, maybe I wouldn't have posted mine, or at least just echoed what you said. I think we both see the issues here the same way. It's one thing to curse at yourself or the air, but quite another to address the chair umpire directly with profanity. Murray curses loud enough for everyone to hear all the time. I don't know if he has been fined for it. I am assuming they let it go because he is only directing it at himself.

Thank you for also pointing out just how young Rafa was at the time. The other point I wanted to make is that Uncle Toni has made it clear to Rafa that he will not tolerate any temper tantrums on court. He laid down the ground rules early on with Rafa. I don't know if Uncle Toni was there that day. I am thinking probably not. He certainly would not have approved of Rafa losing his cool. That is one reason why you will rarely, if ever, see Rafa blow up on court. He has been taught that this is not acceptable behavior.

malteaser: "?I?m lucky,? he says, ?in that I have never been a guy with a strict routine.? He does not labor under the tennis players? paranoia about regular practice, diet, and sleep. ?When the baby comes, I love the idea that if I?m up at five or six in the morning, I?ll just go and practice then, stuff like that.?"

I've read a while back where Federer stated he likes to have and adheres to a strict routine of sleeping, eating, pratising, and exercising. He also mentioned that he used to go to sleep late at night, watching TV, and then awaken late in the morning, but changed that due to reading an article which stated in gist, that it's best to go to sleep early at night as the quality of one's sleep in those hours is much more beneficial to the body as opposed to sleeping/retiring late. He mentioned he tried that routine and felt better than he had in years. It's also one of the reasons he likes to play his matches early in the day and not at night which enables him to stick to his routine.

The above quoted portion of your post seems to indicate that Federer has changed his mindset on sticking to a routine and has now become flexible. I can't help but wonder if he employs the services of a nanny why would Federer be awakened to take care of the babies?

"But one more time, I have to say that I don't understand why this video of Rafa should even be the subject of discussion. If you have to go back two years to find any evidence of Rafa getting angry about a call, that is saying something. These two incidents are NOT analogous. I have discussed this to death and don't have anything more to say." - Nativenewyorker , 9/23/09 10:16 PM

Any self respecting tennis fan with just an iota of sense can get what you are saying, Native'. But you are dealing with a rabid Fed fan. Don't waste your time on him and leave the tit for tat on me. :-)

Phoenix,

Thanks. I will leave it in your capable hands. Reason and logic apparently will not prevail in this argument.

regarding that incident about Nole's ace being called out in the semis,someone on RF.com gave this explainantion:


Djoko hit a great serve that was called out; Roger swung and missed it. Djoko challenged and replay showed the ball was in.

In this situation, it is up to the umpire to decide whether the serve was an ace and the receiver had no chance to return it; then the server should get the point. Or if the receiver maybe had a chance to return it if not for the out call, the point is replayed.

In this match, the umpire said he thought Roger had a chance to return the ball ie had "a play" on it, so the point had to be replayed. Djoko argued that the serve was an ace and Roger had no chance. So he should get the point. From the TV replay, it looks like Djoko was right.

Roger just stood at the baseline and let the umpire decide, he didn't interfere in the discussion and nobody asked him to.
Some people say he should have taken Djoko's side and conceded the point.

Maybe he should have, but these are split second judgements and remember he didn't have access to the replay to see that Djoko was right and the umpire wrong. Players can sometimes be mistaken even about sth that just happened. Roddick got into a famous tirade against an umpire about a similar issue; he argued that he "had a play" while ump said he didn't. The TV replay showed that the umpire was right and Roddick wrong, but of course Roddick didn't see the replay and he was furious and sure he was right.

***********
this added with Roger not trusting the challenge system and that he conceded apoint to Novak in the very same match in enough for me to give him the benefit of doubt. actually quite convinced that he wasn't doing sth wrong.
funny that no one paniced when in MAdrid final Rafa said Roger's serve was out,but TV replay showed it was in. but it was already a DF for Roger. there we all assumed Rafa made a mistake,but here...

regarding that incident about Nole's ace being called out in the semis,someone on RF.com gave this explainantion:


Djoko hit a great serve that was called out; Roger swung and missed it. Djoko challenged and replay showed the ball was in.

In this situation, it is up to the umpire to decide whether the serve was an ace and the receiver had no chance to return it; then the server should get the point. Or if the receiver maybe had a chance to return it if not for the out call, the point is replayed.

In this match, the umpire said he thought Roger had a chance to return the ball ie had "a play" on it, so the point had to be replayed. Djoko argued that the serve was an ace and Roger had no chance. So he should get the point. From the TV replay, it looks like Djoko was right.

Roger just stood at the baseline and let the umpire decide, he didn't interfere in the discussion and nobody asked him to.
Some people say he should have taken Djoko's side and conceded the point.

Maybe he should have, but these are split second judgements and remember he didn't have access to the replay to see that Djoko was right and the umpire wrong. Players can sometimes be mistaken even about sth that just happened. Roddick got into a famous tirade against an umpire about a similar issue; he argued that he "had a play" while ump said he didn't. The TV replay showed that the umpire was right and Roddick wrong, but of course Roddick didn't see the replay and he was furious and sure he was right.

***********
this added with Roger not trusting the challenge system and that he conceded a point to Novak in the very same match(as janhavi said) is enough for me to give him the benefit of doubt,actually I'm quite convinced he didn't mean to do sth wrong.
btw,in Madrid final Rafa called Roger's serve out,the TV replay showed it as in,but it was already a DF. there we all assumed Rafa made a mistake,why not here?

excuse me for the double post.

btw Cheryl,it's your interpretation that the umpire meant to say:" wait a min,'please' ",Roger is the guy who was there and he is for sure not 'sick',he 'felt' he was disrespected and the rules were not being enforced.(it is a rule,it's mentioned on itftennis.com),he was 100% right in his arguement and 100% wrong to swear(though it was not directed at anyone),he was rightfully fined.
end of story.

about the SE sportsmanship award,he deserved it till this year,this year he probably doesn't, but it doesn't take anything from winning it in the past.

fed new whether he could or couldn't, he should have declared himself; there is something called sportsmanship. so many words waisted to justify something unjustifiable.

exactly, you guys lose credibility if you defend him even when he's clearly wrong.

he's a competitive sportsperson and there's nothing wrong with that. i probably would not have given my opponent the point either, in his place. just stop trying to make the world believe that fed is some kind of saint.

"...but it doesn't take anything from winning it in the past." - niloofar , 9/24/09 11:34 PM

But he was winning games left and right for the last 5 years. His character was never tested because it's easy to be all nice and proper when you are winning. As I've said in the other thread, true character will emerge in times of adversity. This time, the Fed was tested and he failed miserably. I agree with posmatrac -"so many words wasted to justify something unjustifiable."

posmatrac ,stu,phoenix ,:

the umpire was taking Roger's side so considerung how fast these points finish it's not so unbelievable to think Roger was tempted to believe the umpire.(it has happened to other guys too)
how come Rafa's mistake in Madrid final is justified to u all?
considering that Fed gave another point to Djoko in the very same match ,I would cut him some slack.
phoenix...sportsmnaship is not just about how a player controls his temper, it's about being fair and not using gamesmanship. remember there has been many dominate players in the past but who won all those awards?
btw,Roger coming to US open he was happier than he's ever been in the last 5 years, all his missions accomplished, and in that match with Djoko it never looked like Roger was going to lose! so there is no reason to think he would act any differently than he would in the past 5 years.
he's had MANY tougher matches than that.
stu...I don't think Fed is a saint and I'm not trying to prove so, it's his haters who think:1.he's evil 2.none of the things he does and says can be considered nice 3.he shouldn't get the benefit of doubt(only Rafa should) 4.every wrong thing he does is appalling and unbearable (in the very same thread ppl said that Nole should win the SE award,we all know how many raquets he has smashed, so when Roger smashed a raquet once it was the most absurd thing ever,but for Nole it's just part of his being "cute")!!!!!

niloofar............you are absolutely fair in your post above..........and i suggest that the other posters read your earlier post more carefully...................

yes...........guys...........we do defend roger when he is right........and we agree with you when he is wrong when he swore.....but how many M-O-R-E times do we have to say it...................????..................this is exactly what niloofar has said, but you have chosen to ignore him/her...........r-e-p-e-a-t a-n-d-r-e-w-i-nd
p-l-e-a-s-e ......... rewind please!

This is what niloofar said...........'it is a rule,it's mentioned on itftennis.com),he was 100% right in his arguement and 100% wrong to swear(though it was not directed at anyone),he was rightfully fined.
end of story.

about the SE sportsmanship award,he deserved it till this year,this year he probably doesn't, but it doesn't take anything from winning it in the past.
niloofar , 9/24/09 11:34 PM

YES.....HE WAS RIGHT TO BE FINED..........BUT DELPOTRO DID NOT CHALLENGE...........PROPERLY.......................WHY ARENT SOME RAFA FANS LISTENING OR BEING FAIR??????????????? Niloofar, me,torres, others............have said so...............you just keep repeating the same thing........over and over again.............(**malty screaming from the top of voice ready to throw self off 100ft cliff!**).........(no comment from carrie please!)..................

sportsmanship? Niloofar i disagree with you there..........One error does NOT maketh the man................One blip does not discredit an otherwise........................e-x-e-m-p-l-a-r-y career.........................yes. federer's record is still the best there is................

Allez Federer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whoop! whoop!

A request to Cheryl/Ricky/Johan.............please can we have an article on Murray's expletives/Gonzo's expletives/Nestor's hitting of a fan/Ferrer's expletives............and then lets do a comparison please.....................perhaps we can then all vote............now T-H-A-T would be interesting!!!!!!!

Allez Federer!

where is fan4tennis..............?????????

Rafa deserves this award. Urgently! It would just be fair to give it to him given that we all agree Federer doesn't deserve it this year. I'm not saying he did not deserve it other years, but clearly not this one, come on....

alba ....Fed might not be the best candidate this year ...im not sure about that ....just like im not so sure he is the best candidate . frankly ..i dont really care if he gets it . maybe the other federites do ...i like the person fed is ...tell it how it is ....whether it makes you popular or unpopular .

But Rafa not deserving it, that im sure as im sure the sun will rise in the east and set in the west tomorrow. You might want him to win it ...which is perfectly fine .
But with the amount he bends the rules when it comes to time wasting . Im dead sure that he wont have the players votes when it comes to fair play. He is notorious for time wasting and its no secret , its a fact . Spin it how u want .... he needs to bounce the bals a few hundred times to flatten it out , he has a medical condition that requires him to do something with his behind all the time , he is born with a slow service motion , it takes him time to realize he needs to serve again ...whatever .....i'll accept the reason ....but he still wastes time and does get time violations more than many other players on court who actually get on with it . If the people watching on tele and the judge finds it way too long ...im sure the opponent across the court working his butt off to break serve feels annoyed .
Unless you can prove to me he does not waste time and what the entire world knows about him is wrong ...then he aint gona get that award. If he does ...im happy for you ...would he deserve it ...I think not..

C'MON !!

i personally think players don't care for this kind of award, what counts is atp ranking, points, gss ... but still fair play is important for the game and player's personal image.

yea when Nole smashes rackets its just so adorable! :) *gush*

I don't know what to say, Fedexfan...

I don't see that as a reason not to give him the award. If you just don't count that, the rest of his manners are completely fine... and maybe I'm thinking as a fan here, but I honestly don't think Rafa takes his time to serve to actually BOTHER his opponent. I think he does it to stay focused cause he's perfectly aware that serving is not his strenght. This might be selfish, but I wouldn't consider it unsportsmanlike? I don't know, let's hear what the rest have to say.

Years of delayed serves were forgiven when he downplayed one of the biggest wins of his career to console and share the stage with a weeping baby.

All this talk about how long Rafa takes to serve is just a red herring. People are just jumping on the bandwagon. As there is no stop watch on court, no one knows for sure how long anyone takes.

If that's all Rafa is guilty of, then he is pretty exemplary to say the least.

i don't see smashing rackets (from time to time) necessarily as a bad thing; players are human with the emotions in them; it just brings a flare to tennis; taking undeserved points is something that worries me.

postmatrac,
I use to share the same opinion, but if young players emulate their idols by smashing their racquets their parents have to fork out to replace them, but the pros get theirs for free. That's why Uncle Toni forbid Rafa from ever doing it because he says it shows lack of respect to people who have to buy their own. I'm, sure he's been tempted.

well...........

i actually think that Murray should win the award this year.......purely based on his sparkling personality and the way he shouts on court.................. swears on court................... (not only to himself, but the crowd, his coaches, the camera, the umpire............his racquet, ...................T-H-E G-U-Y I-S A-N- A-R-T-I-S-T-E......... I particularly like the way he hits himself and makes his fingers bleed......(I thought i was bad when i was hitting the keyboard).........but there is no other player on court who is so enigmatic and charming.......... and downright sexy................... when it comes to shouting his mouth off (no need to do it nestor style.........) and when he celebrates the losses of his opponents.......with those dulcit tones of C'MONNNNNNNNNN!..well.........my legs really do go to jelly...........

well...such sportsmanship..........the guy g-o-t-t-a win this year...............

malteser: your post about Andy M is astonishingly like a post by Maxi of about 6 weeks ago. Do look it up ...if .. you are unfamiliar with it.......if
BTW I find your incessant knocking of Andy M as tedious as you find incessant criticisms of Peter Perfect.

deuce...believe it or not.....not everyone likes murray...i read maxi's joke and thought it was h-i-l-a-r-i-o-u-s....but unfortunately....maxi's joke was 'borrowed'....if you live in UK...you will have seen in paper spoof journo who had already put murray's face on a mug......and currency....in fact i cut it out....(sad I know)......and laughed my socks off deuce.....(plus his/her joke was about british press)....my joke is about his personality....which is FACT......and is much,much better ...even if i do say so myself.....and pure originality - murray gives me a lot of material to work with deuce.......from what i can remember about the article, it was about the british press 'bigging up' murray...all the time...so actually....maxi copied the joke......and deuce...babe....mine are at least O-R-I-G-I-N-A-L......so give me a bit of credit.....yeah so what....maxi isnt a fan of murray.......from posts i have read...but he/she hardly went on about it......you have to accept deuce that murray just isnt as popular as the press make out...and its people like you who i find tedious and incessant...i have made one joke about murray in what....2 weeks? and that becomes 'incessant'....go look the word up.....see what it means....and trust me....we fedfans as you know...put up with enough crap about federer which I-S incessant.....no contest in my view....maxi's/mail's joke was hilarious...you just didnt find it funny.....so because i make a joke/maxi makes ONE COPIED JOKE, because maxi...who in my view...and after having read a few more of their posts.....far too calm...polite..objective....no way...no way.....i couldnt be that angelic.......though there was some analysis there)......dont put us into the same category deuce...i actually find carrie...much funnier...and has me laughing a lot of the time.....she laces her sentences with sarcasm....my kind of humour.....which i why i liked the daily mail's joke.....i can understand tho why you wouldnt.....no offence intended deuce.....you knowwww....i gotta be careful now.....

stu....i will get back to you....i promise....just relaxing a bit this morning.....doing a bit more research...but i wont forget.........

I dunno when ATP tennis has become American Idol where the personality of a player is more important than the tennis they play.

Some Rafans especially carrie talks more about player's personlaity than the tennis itself.

The match of Delpo VS Fed was a very high quality one and it will remembered for Fed swearing at the umpire? How boring.

And the Federer smashing the racket thing is like once in 5 years and it's like Fed does it 10 more times after that LOL.

The same with the shaking hands with the umpire. That was 1 time. He lost to Rafa in Wimby2008 (most depressing for The Fed), did he not shake the umpire's hand? How many times he lost and shook the umpire's hand and 1 time he didn't it's being repeated like he's a handshakophobic.

'because maxi...who in my view...and after having read a few more of their posts.....far too calm...polite..objective....no way...no way.....i couldnt be that angelic.......though there was some analysis there)......dont put us into the same category'

malteser , 9/26/09 10:24 AM

malteser, I am so glad that you have confirmed one of the reasons I gave for you and maxi not being the same person, I actually said that maxi was far too polite to be you. I was being truthful and objective, and I'm glad even you say so yourself. That I said that should be no surprise to you, as you know we have had many words about this in your previous life, but I think the sabatical has done you a world of good, I wish they'd done it earlier, then you would have served your time before the USO, and much fun would have been had on TT with your contribution.

The only thing you and maxi have in common is that you are both Fedfans.

Frankly, I don't buy the back excuse because no way would Fed have played DC if his back was causing him pain, and then through that have to pull out of a Masters. I think he wants the time off to play happy families with his wife and twins, and he really has got nothing to lose by taking the time off, unless Rafa manages to win Shanghai, Paris and O2, which he is capable of doing, but unlikely.

If his back was a problem, he wouldn't know at this point in time if it would have healed enough in time for Basel. He has to play Basel because he is defending 500 points there.

VAMOS RAFA!

Hi stu.....
so last few nights and a little this morning....have been perusing the 'maxi files'...it takes so long though....so this is only the first instalment...i h-o-n-e-s-t-l-y cannot see any major similarities....i see...maxi doesnt care too much for murray...check...loves federer...check....lives in UK - dublin i think?...(half check)...me splits time here and cyprus....maxi dude/chick posted a helluva lot on tennis.x....me? hardly ever.....he/she talked incessantly about it...found it boring.....thought if they loved it so much...then go back to tennis.x.......i do frequent tennis.x yes...but not the daily way they did.....it would seem.......but then i dont think thats a signpost.....posted some articles over here.....check....but then many other posters do that.....i did love that though....apart from that......to be honest.....i found his/her posts...
b-o-r-i-n-g....(nice but no naughty...)...no similarities there then?.....maxi had one joke in the bag.....come on stuey babe....i was full of it...(and i said....'it'...carrie!)... and my jokes i think were/are more frequent.....one v twenty?....nope...no similarity... would describe maxi...if push came to shove...as nice...that's it....a bit of a spark i think once or twice....but hardly came to life.....sat on fence....cannot stand that .......in my view..you are one or the other.....maybe a little bit inbetween.....and i think i am better at that now...than i used to be....because i dont want to go from here again....and go down the road gordana took me.......not me.....PLUS stu....my house in cyprus....family in limassol and paphos....have you seen big fat greek wedding?....yep.......thats MY gran.....my family....house in paphos....(near polis..)...on a hill......no internet connection.....occasionally....travelled to limassol.....(Kostas coffee bar - you'll know it...you greeks out there.....a small internet cafe further along road....yep i was able to read but not much more....and did have conversations only with cheryl on her other email address....the way i saw it...no point in me reinventing myself....too difficult/hard not to make outright contact with sky or zoey in particular.....and do you honestly think that if i came back as maxi....i could have had that fight with zoey? (read that post zoey....)......she got really mad at maxi for saying something which upset zoey....nah....couldnt do it stu....they dont even post like me?.........and i think both zoey and sky would have picked up on it straight away......zoey defended me....said she would know.....through my words/language.....i love em you see......i dont think like phoenix/danny......of course anyone could come back on here in another guise...but then you lose the friends you made.....too hard....to do that... anyway thats first instalment...and am out of here now.....got more stuff to do.......
one joke......and a federer/murray split....doesnt add up to the same person stu....i know when danny comes on here he has a bit of a pop...but going right back to the beginning......he apologised for making that assumption....now he back on the .....go get em trail......am just glad to be back.....to converse with you, friend/adversary (*spock/captain kirk hand to window in unison*)...along with pos/homos....everything forgotten now.....

carrie....yes....i posted that article for zoey...as you know...but i agree with you....i just think where federer went..wrong....if you like.....was getting rattled with the challenge point...in the third set? he did NOT serve well AT ALL throughout the match...it wasnt just in the last set where the percentage went down even further....(the back could have been twinging...but nothing was said in his interview....)...but i remember something you said a long...long....time ago...that all our players learn more from their losses.....and so i didnt feel the same sense of loss for fed this time around. i dont think his standard of play was brilliant in the USO...but it was solid enough to make another final...and am very happy for that.......i do feel i have mellowed a little.....sun in cyprus does that to you.....but then did a lot of travelling in italy, alghero.....but then i look forward to the next slam carrie...and we can rip each other to pieces again...am salivating already!

torres...i know..i know....where have you been?

hey malt..thanks for putting in all that effort, but i didn't need any proof from you one way or another - i just mentioned to phoenix that i agreed with his assessment. i don't know either of your personalities or interests (except that you both love roger, that is easily evident :) ) but just felt your writing styles and attitudes are similar. it was not based on any familiarity with your posts (which ill admit i never read before) or hers.

in any case, welcome back!

stu i just hope it is not dr. jekyll mr hyde relationship. watch your back when darkness falls :)

hey stu.....its really not a problem.......how could you not have read my posts......tho.....you dont know what you missed! and...when i say i am going to do something...i do it...

and pos...i am going to say that since i have been back....you certainly have calmed down.......and i even find you funny now....whereas before....you used to irritate the hell out of me......do you really think that i have the e-n-e-r-g-y to be two people at one time? not me...not bothered that much....

stu....i read one post from maxi...who said they had N-O-T gone to wimbledon this year (took me hours).......nah.....you k-n-o-w i went to wimby this year stu! my blue dress!!!! that bright blue dress...i bought for the occasion...i remember you even posted me....yes..you did....i made you laugh.....i said would get fan4tennis and carrie autos from fed and rafa.....but alas....i could not....so there is n-o-w-a-y i could ever live that down....my most special moment in my life this year...and it was w-o-n-d-e-r-f-u-l..........
stu...i know you are a murray fan.....as is deuce....but please...have a word with him....have read posts on the addidas thread...where posters very obviously say they are not fans...of murray.....i make one joke...and he seems to take it so seriously (or she)....have to cut down on ellipsis now...'Nothing' has had a word...and i think it goes against rules....anyhow...stu...can we move on from this now.....????? am waiting for phoenix now to say something...i'll be patient.....how are you danny? why did you change your name?...why didnt you serve the time and be done with it?

alba...

your take on Rafa's time-wasting habit is quite logical and nothing wrong with that. Rafa DOES bother the other guys by the extra time he takes between the points but I'm also inclined to think that he does not MEAN to. benefit of doubt...sth I wish ppl would give Roger too.
btw,guess who was the 1st person to give me the idea that Rafa's extra time taking is not MEANT as gamesmanship?.....
Roger,the guy who's "evil" according to Rafans and can do no right. I think it was 2 years ago that he said the reason "Rafa takes his time" is to "recover" from long ralleys.
I take Roger's word on that.

btw,this is Pat cash's take on Roger's outburst:
Q:You said a moment ago that no-one expected Del Potro to beat Federer, do you think Federer himself was as surprised as anyone with the way Del Potro played? We saw footage on TV of Federer swearing at the umpire at one point, do you think that was a measure of how rattled he was?

A:"First of all the umpire deserved everything he got, that was absolutely ridiculous to tell Roger Federer to be quiet. I think he was more surprised at how poorly he played, I think that was the worst final he has ever played, but it is a sign of the times. There are players who will not put up with his junk - he hit a lot of junk. Nadal and Murray have been able to deal with it and it is a sign of the times. The guys are coming towards the net now and Federer hit the ball all over the place, he will be very disappointed with the way he played in that match. He let Del Potro back in and that is very un-Federer like. In many ways I think he didn't concentrate, but you have good days and bad days and in a way it is nice seeing Federer having a bad day because it proves he is human.

niloofar.....thank you so much for posting that article...it's just the best...have been fishing around the net to try and find stuff about fed's outburst....but i think what you found is better than anything i have found.....about time that Pat Cash (who is N-O-T a federer fan...stuck up for the fed...
can you give me the link please so i can read the full article)...thanks niloofar....

niloofar...i hope you dont mind buddy..but i just googled pat cash fed outburst...and can see article was on sky sports...so posted a bit more of it here....

The 2009 US Open will be remembered by many as the Grand Slam Juan Martin Del Potro stunned Roger Federer. Did you see that coming?

"I think most people were shell-shocked by Del Potro thumping (Rafael) Nadal like he did in the semi-final. After that I think people thought there could be a potential upset but I don't think anyone really thought he could do it. He did play very well once he got into the match and of course everyone loves watching Federer play but I think in many ways people were quite relieved to see another face on the scene."

How far do you think Del Potro can go now he has got that first major under his belt?

"I don't know for sure. I would think he would get another Grand Slam at some stage. I think he and Murray will be fighting it out at a few Grand Slams. I think Djokovic is an outside bet now. There are other good players like (Jo-Wilfried) Tsonga and (Gael) Monfils - they are two great French players, but I still see Federer and Nadal being at the top, but for the first time in either of their careers there are some serious threats to them."

You said a moment ago that no-one expected Del Potro to beat Federer. Do you think Federer himself was as surprised as anyone with the way Del Potro played? We saw footage on TV of Federer swearing at the umpire at one point, do you think that was a measure of how rattled he was?

"First of all the umpire deserved everything he got, that was absolutely ridiculous to tell Roger Federer to be quiet. I think he was more surprised at how poorly he played, I think that was the worst final he has ever played, but it is a sign of the times. There are players who will not put up with his junk - he hit a lot of junk. Nadal and Murray have been able to deal with it and it is a sign of the times. The guys are coming towards the net now and Federer hit the ball all over the place, he will be very disappointed with the way he played in that match. He let Del Potro back in and that is very un-Federer like. In many ways I think he didn't concentrate, but you have good days and bad days and in a way it is nice seeing Federer having a bad day because it proves he is human."

of course I don't mind malt...
sorry ,sure I would post the link on your request,but I saw both your posts together...:)

"stu...i know you are a murray fan....."
malteser, 9/26/09 5:18 PM

Most outrageous thing I've ever heard!

As a diehard Rafa fan, I am going to disagree with carrie regarding Fed taking some time off due to a recurrence of a back problem. If we are going to take Rafa at face value when he says he is taking time off for injury, then I think we should give the same courtesy to Fed. Just because I am not a Fed fan doesn't mean that I need to take cheap shots at him for taking some time off.

I see this kind of Fed bashing on one Rafa forum in particular and I truly dislike it. I get extremely angry when people question Rafa taking time off for injury. It is the one thing I will not tolerate on any site. However, if I am guilty of the same unfortunate behavior towards Fed, then I would be a hypocrite. Fed was serving quite poorly for him in the finals match of the Open. I don't recall ever seeing him make so many double faults. It's entirely possible and reasonable to think that his back might have been bothering him. Why would I question that, when Rafa fans know all too well how his abdominal injury hampered his serve all throughout the US Open?

I want the same consideration for both Rafa and Fed. They deserve nothing less from fans who truly love the sport of tennis. It's true that Fed has a comfortable lead in points that should keep him at #1 by the end of the year. But I see no reason for him to make up a story about an imaginary injury just to stay home and be with his twins. He takes them with him when he's playing, so he still has some time with them.

Just because there are some rabid Fed fans who trashed Rafa for withdrawing from Wimbledon and were insulting enough to question whether he really was injured, is no reason for me to do the same when Fed takes some time off and says it's for injury. I take him at his word.

As a diehard Rafa fan, I am going to disagree with carrie regarding Fed taking some time off due to a recurrence of a back problem. If we are going to take Rafa at face value when he says he is taking time off for injury, then I think we should give the same courtesy to Fed. Just because I am not a Fed fan doesn't mean that I need to take cheap shots at him for taking some time off.

I see this kind of Fed bashing on one Rafa forum in particular and I truly dislike it. I get extremely angry when people question Rafa taking time off for injury. It is the one thing I will not tolerate on any site. However, if I am guilty of the same unfortunate behavior towards Fed, then I would be a hypocrite. Fed was serving quite poorly for him in the finals match of the Open. I don't recall ever seeing him make so many double faults. It's entirely possible and reasonable to think that his back might have been bothering him. Why would I question that, when Rafa fans know all too well how his abdominal injury hampered his serve all throughout the US Open?

I want the same consideration for both Rafa and Fed. They deserve nothing less from fans who truly love the sport of tennis. It's true that Fed has a comfortable lead in points that should keep him at #1 by the end of the year. But I see no reason for him to make up a story about an imaginary injury just to stay home and be with his twins. He takes them with him when he's playing, so he still has time with them.

Just because there are some rabid Fed fans who trashed Rafa for withdrawing from Wimbledon and were insulting enough to question whether he really was injured, is no reason for me to do the same when Fed takes some time off and says it's for injury. I take him at his word.

As a diehard Rafa fan, I am going to disagree with carrie regarding Fed taking some time off due to a recurrence of a back problem. If we are going to take Rafa at face value when he says he is taking time off for injury, then I think we should give the same courtesy to Fed. Just because I am not a Fed fan doesn't mean that I need to take cheap shots at him for taking some time off.

I see this kind of Fed bashing on one Rafa forum in particular and I truly dislike it. I get extremely angry when people question Rafa taking time off for injury. It is the one thing I will not tolerate on any site. However, if I am guilty of the same unfortunate behavior towards Fed, then I would be a hypocrite. Fed was serving quite poorly for him in the finals match of the Open. I don't recall ever seeing him make so many double faults. It's entirely possible and reasonable to think that his back might have been bothering him. Why would I question that, when Rafa fans know all too well how his abdominal injury hampered his serve all throughout the US Open?

I want the same consideration for both Rafa and Fed. They deserve nothing less from fans who truly love the sport of tennis. It's true that Fed has a comfortable lead in points that should keep him at #1 by the end of the year. But I see no reason for him to make up a story about an imaginary injury just to stay home and be with his twins. He takes them with him when he's playing, so he still has time with them.

Just because there are some rabid Fed fans who trashed Rafa for withdrawing from Wimbledon and were insulting enough to question whether he really was injured, is no reason for me to do the same when Fed takes some time off and says it's for injury. I take him at his word.

As a diehard Rafa fan, I am going to disagree with carrie regarding Fed taking some time off due to a recurrence of a back problem. If we are going to take Rafa at face value when he says he is taking time off for injury, then I think we should give the same courtesy to Fed. Just because I am not a Fed fan doesn't mean that I need to take cheap shots at him for taking some time off.

I see this kind of Fed bashing on one Rafa forum in particular and I truly dislike it. I get extremely angry when people question Rafa taking time off for injury. It is the one thing I will not tolerate on any site. However, if I am guilty of the same unfortunate behavior towards Fed, then I would be a hypocrite. Fed was serving quite poorly for him in the finals match of the Open. I don't recall ever seeing him make so many double faults. It's entirely possible and reasonable to think that his back might have been bothering him. Why would I question that, when Rafa fans know all too well how his abdominal injury hampered his serve all throughout the US Open?

I want the same consideration for both Rafa and Fed. They deserve nothing less from fans who truly love the sport of tennis. It's true that Fed has a comfortable lead in points that should keep him at #1 by the end of the year. But I see no reason for him to make up a story about an imaginary injury just to stay home and be with his twins. He takes them with him when he's playing, so he still has time with them.

Just because there are some rabid Fed fans who trashed Rafa for withdrawing from Wimbledon and were insulting enough to question whether he really was injured, is no reason for me to do the same when Fed takes some time off and says it's for injury. I take him at his word.

As a diehard Rafa fan, I am going to disagree with carrie regarding Fed taking some time off due to a recurrence of a back problem. If we are going to take Rafa at face value when he says he is taking time off for injury, then I think we should give the same courtesy to Fed. Just because I am not a Fed fan doesn't mean that I need to take cheap shots at him for taking some time off.

I see this kind of Fed bashing on one Rafa forum in particular and I truly dislike it. I get extremely angry when people question Rafa taking time off for injury. It is the one thing I will not tolerate on any site. However, if I am guilty of the same unfortunate behavior towards Fed, then I would be a hypocrite. Fed was serving quite poorly for him in the finals match of the Open. I don't recall ever seeing him make so many double faults. It's entirely possible and reasonable to think that his back might have been bothering him. Why would I question that, when Rafa fans know all too well how his abdominal injury hampered his serve all throughout the US Open?

I want the same consideration for both Rafa and Fed. They deserve nothing less from fans who truly love the sport of tennis. It's true that Fed has a comfortable lead in points that should keep him at #1 by the end of the year. But I see no reason for him to make up a story about an imaginary injury just to stay home and be with his twins. He takes them with him when he's playing, so he still has time with them.

Just because there are some rabid Fed fans who trashed Rafa for withdrawing from Wimbledon and were insulting enough to question whether he really was injured, is no reason for me to do the same when Fed takes some time off and says it's for injury. I take him at his word.

As a diehard Rafa fan, I am going to disagree with carrie regarding Fed taking some time off due to a recurrence of a back problem. If we are going to take Rafa at face value when he says he is taking time off for injury, then I think we should give the same courtesy to Fed. Just because I am not a Fed fan doesn't mean that I need to take cheap shots at him for taking some time off.

I see this kind of Fed bashing on one Rafa forum in particular and I truly dislike it. I get extremely angry when people question Rafa taking time off for injury. It is the one thing I will not tolerate on any site. However, if I am guilty of the same unfortunate behavior towards Fed, then I would be a hypocrite. Fed was serving quite poorly for him in the finals match of the Open. I don't recall ever seeing him make so many double faults. It's entirely possible and reasonable to think that his back might have been bothering him. Why would I question that, when Rafa fans know all too well how his abdominal injury hampered his serve all throughout the US Open?

I want the same consideration for both Rafa and Fed. They deserve nothing less from fans who truly love the sport of tennis. It's true that Fed has a comfortable lead in points that should keep him at #1 by the end of the year. But I see no reason for him to make up a story about an imaginary injury just to stay home and be with his twins. He takes them with him when he's playing, so he still has time with them.

Just because there are some rabid Fed fans who trashed Rafa for withdrawing from Wimbledon and were insulting enough to question whether he really was injured, is no reason for me to do the same when Fed takes some time off and says it's for injury. I take him at his word.

As a diehard Rafa fan, I am going to disagree with carrie regarding Fed taking some time off due to a recurrence of a back problem. If we are going to take Rafa at face value when he says he is taking time off for injury, then I think we should give the same courtesy to Fed. Just because I am not a Fed fan doesn't mean that I need to take cheap shots at him for taking some time off.

I see this kind of Fed bashing on one Rafa forum in particular and I truly dislike it. I get extremely angry when people question Rafa taking time off for injury. It is the one thing I will not tolerate on any site. However, if I am guilty of the same unfortunate behavior towards Fed, then I would be a hypocrite. Fed was serving quite poorly for him in the finals match of the Open. I don't recall ever seeing him make so many double faults. It's entirely possible and reasonable to think that his back might have been bothering him. Why would I question that, when Rafa fans know all too well how his abdominal injury hampered his serve all throughout the US Open?

I want the same consideration for both Rafa and Fed. They deserve nothing less from fans who truly love the sport of tennis. It's true that Fed has a comfortable lead in points that should keep him at #1 by the end of the year. But I see no reason for him to make up a story about an imaginary injury just to stay home and be with his twins. He takes them with him when he's playing, so he still has time with them.

Just because there are some rabid Fed fans who trashed Rafa for withdrawing from Wimbledon and were insulting enough to question whether he really was injured, is no reason for me to do the same when Fed takes some time off and says it's for injury. I take him at his word.

As a diehard Rafa fan, I am going to disagree with carrie regarding Fed taking some time off due to a recurrence of a back problem. If we are going to take Rafa at face value when he says he is taking time off for injury, then I think we should give the same courtesy to Fed. Just because I am not a Fed fan doesn't mean that I need to take cheap shots at him for taking some time off.

I see this kind of Fed bashing on one Rafa forum in particular and I truly dislike it. I get extremely angry when people question Rafa taking time off for injury. It is the one thing I will not tolerate on any site. However, if I am guilty of the same unfortunate behavior towards Fed, then I would be a hypocrite. Fed was serving quite poorly for him in the finals match of the Open. I don't recall ever seeing him make so many double faults. It's entirely possible and reasonable to think that his back might have been bothering him. Why would I question that, when Rafa fans know all too well how his abdominal injury hampered his serve all throughout the US Open?

I want the same consideration for both Rafa and Fed. They deserve nothing less from fans who truly love the sport of tennis. It's true that Fed has a comfortable lead in points that should keep him at #1 by the end of the year. But I see no reason for him to make up a story about an imaginary injury just to stay home and be with his twins. He takes them with him when he's playing, so he still has time with them.

Just because there are some rabid Fed fans who trashed Rafa for withdrawing from Wimbledon and were insulting enough to question whether he really was injured, is no reason for me to do the same when Fed takes some time off and says it's for injury. I take him at his word.

I want to apologize for my post coming up three times. I had a lot of trouble posting it and kept hitting send. Maybe that's the reason this happened.

I just want everyone to know that this was something beyond my control and was not intended. Sorry.

it is embarrassing when that happens Nny. same thing would happen to me when i started posting on this site. now i make sure only to hit send once, even if it seems like forever to go through.

maybe the administrator can delete the duplicates but it is a wonderful post imo. i hail you for taking such a fair stance. not even my own camp of fedfans likes it when i point out the connection between back and poor serving ....but i looked at all the stats and his best serving came against soderling and from there his serving went downhill. brilliant shot-making against nole but the final was abysmal with all the df and ue's.

however, i don't believe the winner in such circumstances should be discredited at all. players get injuries and illness, sometimes it is enough to make them skip a tourny and sometimes they try and play through the injury; their choice. point being: the fittest one wins the day, which happened to be great for delPO!

if i can recall, Nny, i think i wanted to talk tennis ( about players getting coaching during a match, etc) and felt snubbed by you in favor of going after torres. dumb of me, i know. but i am starved for tennis talking and still learning. sorry.

anyway, i am sure we will disagree but that's to be expected.

zoe

Native...it was actually 8 times...

i thought you were mad as hell...which ws why you kept banging the board....but have had problems trying to log on myself today....have to leave it a while....then come back later....

...as you know i am a m-a-s-s-i-v-e FEDFAN....but i really dont think that federer's back was 'overly bothering' him.....he made no mention of it at interview.....remember he played an incredibly entertaining match with novak in SF 3 days earlier....it think it was lack of practice for those 3 days....coupled with tiredness catching up...he had lost his momentum......i think also it was general wear and tear....so the back would have been part of the overall M-O-T needed for federer....plus...am not so sure delpo played brilliantly....but obviously he played better than roger on the day....

carrie said this:
Frankly, I don't buy the back excuse because no way would Fed have played DC if his back was causing him pain, and then through that have to pull out of a Masters. I think he wants the time off to play happy families with his wife and twins, and he really has got nothing to lose by taking the time off, unless Rafa manages to win Shanghai, Paris and O2, which he is capable of doing, but unlikely.

but native...and carrie actually...it wasn't fed that actually made any excuses...this is a sports journalist's take on it - at sky sports....i'll go post his name in a second.....or five.....roger didnt make any excuses.....i guess people are just wondering why his first serve was so low..and that was throughout the whole match....his game was just 'not on' for him on that day....but i think...having read the fed fans posts during that time....they were all pretty happy with his performance in terms of his achievements throughout the year....uso...as fed said...would have been a dream...but it was not to be..and actually carrie has a point...

carrie loves federer really native...she spouts off a lot...but shes in denial....(seriously...you'll get used to her rabid rantings...she's quite funny though...am not sticking up for her...but i think she misread the signals as federer saying his back 'hurt'....he never said that.....a journo has summised that....most recent interview was that his arm hurts,his leg hurts...(just after davis cup)...this is what federer said....the guy is just fatigued.....he is making the right decision in my view.....

and carrie has a point...to a degree...she said federer would not have played davis cup...he wouldnt if his back was t-h-a-t b-a-d....he is just fatigued...
but its great to know that you are also someone who...being new here...can see that sometimes the insults towards federer are unnecessary...in this case..i actually think carrie was partly correct...and you'll get used to her expressions......more lately...she has been a bit ranty...but she'll calm down....when she has her triple espressos......i'll go find the journo's name......(I love research native....so if you want me to post anything....please ask...).

Native...this is true....a big hug from a federer fan.....

i posted you on the other thread...but cannot access it right now...i think i already mentioned the sports journo's name.... (zoey pointed me in the right direction)...It's Tom Tebutts....and it was his opinion on federer's back...not federer.....
malteser , 9/26/09 10:32 PM

I am SO sorry everyone! How embarrassing! You must have thought I had gone crazy! I will learn not to keep hitting send when it doesn't go through. Again, my sincere apologies to all of you.

zoey,

I am definitely not taking anything away from Delpo's win. He certainly deserved it. He played some brilliant tennis and just stayed tough and focused. I give him all the credit in the world. For whatever reason, Fed's serve seemed to desert him. I am used to seeing him hit a lot of aces and get a fairly decent percentage of first serves. I cannot pretend to know the reason for his poor serving. Maybe it was his back, maybe he was tired, maybe he just had a bad serving day. But I will never take anything away from Delpo.

I to try to have a sense of perspective. Maybe I am a little annoyed because I had to leave a Rafa forum after listening to all the trash talk about Fed pretending he has some back or arm or leg issues. I realize that there has been a lot of confusion. Fed himself did say that he his arm and leg hurts. But to some Rafa fans, it's just more excuses. I don't agree with that kind of talk. So I came back here.

I have gotten a lot of grief from Rafa fans who don't like the fact that I will not discuss so-called Fed conspiracies against Rafa. I have my own issues with Fed and things he has said about Rafa in the past. There are things about him that I do not like, that's for sure. I just think that if a player says they can't play, then take them at their word. That's what I do with Rafa and it should be the same with everyone else.

If Fed needs some time off, that's up to him. I don't pretend to know what is going on in his life. If he says he can't play, then that's it. I just get sick and tired of the same, incessant Fed bashing. I have heard enough Rafa bashing from Fed fans, enough to last me a lifetime. I sometimes worry that I am guilty of doing the exact same thing.

I generally don't have a problem with carrie. We are both devoted Rafa fans. But I get questioned and attacked even by Rafa fans when I don't go along with everything they say. It has nothing to do with my sincere and deep admiration and respect for Rafa. I actually think Rafa would be very unhappy if he read some of the comments by his fans, especially those about Fed. But I am not as generous a person as Rafa. I think what I dislike more are some Fed fans who have really thrown some cheap shots at Rafa. I always question their motives and why they still feel so threatened by Rafa.

see, i have to disagree with you malt. did you actually read the article from tebutts? apparently in the tribune de geneve fed DID mention his back.....and you know me....i can tell and i agree with what jmac was saying during match about fed's ball toss not getting up high enough........and .....you know our fed.....he not going to mention the back.

he said to the english speaking press that he was tired, an arm hurt, a leg hut and he wanted to spend time with twins changing diapers....awww sweet.....but.......no mention of the real problem cos the federer is a true gent, all class......he would not steal any glory from the delPo!! mwah, chick!!

zoey,

Now I am really confused. Well, whatever the reason with Fed, be it his back, arm, leg, whatever, I guess he needs some time off. Maybe he doesn't want to give anything away with the back. I know Rafa likes to keep his injuries to himself. It's all about not giving any information or advantage to an upcoming opponent. That's why I knew his abdominal injury had to be bad for him to call the trainer during a match. He never does that. He was letting everyone know about it, but still refused to disclose how serious it was in his post match press conferences. I remember the commentators saying that Rafa's ball toss was quite a bit lower. I knew that the abdominal injury was playing havoc with his serve throughout the US Open.

The bottom line is that Delpo won the match. He deserves all the credit for his win. Beating both Rafa and Fed back-to-back is quite an accomplishment. But the challenge for him going forward will be to keep up that level of play.

Nny, thanks for the reply. you are a very cool rafan but i am not as sensitive as when i first started posting about tennis last march. i was appalled at the fed hate at first, then became amused and caught up in it. i got especially into it with f4t during wimbledon. so i am not immune to going off in retaliation but it is not cos i don't like rafa, it's about limits.....can only take so much bashing and i slip into the muck....and mud wrestling commences.

f4t used to be a very anti-fed poster and we had made peace before she left and i don't know if that was too good for her.....time will tell. glad to have you on board, Nny. but i expect to slip off the rails now and then.....maybe not....we'll see.

stick to your guns Nny!! conspiracy theories were at a fever pitched crazy talk
during the us open, for sure.

Nny , my above post was more in response to your 10:45 post. i wrote one reply, fairly lengthy for me, to your above post and i see it did not post, for reasons not known.

anyway, what i was saying was about rafa's knees. i never thought it was an excuse or an insurance policy as was the talk prior to wimby, rafa would not do that. uncle toni might but not rafa. if there were any way he could have played, he would have, no doubt.

i feel like with my fellow fedfans that mentioning the obvious is sometimes frowned upon. for instance mentioning the roger's back problems is somehow an excuse but as i say over and over, they all play with some injuries with the kind of schedule they are on and pressure to keep playing, while moving up the ranks or defending a ranking. really it comes down to timing for peak health going into a major tourney. so happened that rafa burnt out his knees before roland garos, roger's back was sore, fatigued, tired by the time us open came around. these things happen ALL the time.

and no they don't like to publicly discuss injuries for all reasons already mentioned, but we fans get it. and the anti-fans will take their shots and say it's all excuses. i don't get what the big deal is. we all get hurt, sore, injured.

delpo was the fittest pony with the healthiest body on the day. fair enough. yep, i think delpo is the real deal. he will handle his new royalty and go forward to win more and move up, an opinion i had about him for over a year. this is going to get very interesting from here on with murray and nole having so many points to defend, roger and rafa rested and ready and delpo on his way up. mens tennis is just getting better and bigger!! can't forget some other new blood like cilic too.

I am in a weird position sometimes, because I have disagreements with some Rafa fans, but then I have even more disagreements with Fed fans. So I feel like I am in limbo, a strange place sometimes. I remember all too well when it was announced that Rafa would start at the US Open on Wednesday, this Rafa forum exploded with conspiracy theories about Fed, the tournament officials and anyone else they could possibly think of. This went on and on for pages. I had my own ideas about it. I had a sense that Rafa asked for a late start to 9 (a) get more practice time to work on his form, or (b) have an extra day to give his abdominal injury more time to heal. Of course, then it was announced that Rafa ASKED to start on Wednesday. You would think the Rafa fans who had expended so much energy screaming and wailing, would have felt kind of embarrassed. Nope. They just carried on as though nothing happened. I think both of my theories probably played a part in Rafa taking an extra day. I am just saying that sometimes things are not what they seem. It's always better to wait and see before rushing to judgement. I have never understood all this talk about Fed conspiracies against Rafa. It kind of implies that one doesn't have faith that Rafa can prevail no matter what the obstacles may be. That's how I feel. But everyone will think what they will think and that's the way it is and always will be.

I think Delpo really caught my attention at the Montreal final with Murray. It's ironic because he lost. But I was watching him come back in that second set and really take it to Murray. I hadn't seen him play recently and it was obvious that he had really improved his game. I had a sense that he might be a real threat. I know he was out of gas in the third set and lost, but I was still impressed with his tennis. I think the smartest thing he did was to pull out of Cincy. He had already beaten Roddick at DC and seemed to be having some trouble with his shoulder and the heat, so he took the extra time to get some much needed rest. That decision just may have won him the US Open. Usually I only concentrate on Rafa in the grand slams, but this time I made a point of watching the other contenders, like Fed, Murray Roddick, Djoko and Delpo. I could see that Delpo was playing fantastic tennis, playing in the zone as I like to say. I had a feeling that he could beat Murray in the quarterfinals. But he didn't have the chance, because Murray got knocked out by Cilic in stunning fashion. The only question I had about Delpo was his ability to handle the heat and humidity, but it stayed cool at the Open and he was fine.

Delpo is the real thing and now there is one more player to talk about. The guy is for real. I think we are in for a year of truly exciting tennis as we head to the end of this year. I expect Delpo to move up even more in the ranks. There are many who think that he is the #3 player in the world.

Murray is going to have to get his head together and figure out where he's at. I expect that he will refrain from any talk about being #1. That would be a good start. The one thing I love about Delpo is that he was kind of under the radar. He didn't go around talking himself up and saying that he wanted to be #2 or #1 or any number. He just kept working on his game and getting better and better. That's the way you do it and I hope Murray takes note.

malteser: Please do not patronise me. Of course I do not believe everyone could or should like Andy M. His tennis, yes, you can criticise and I will probably join you, but you seem to be trying to get cheap laughs by having jabs at his personality. Also, I would remind you that he is NOT responsible for the British press and his more often than not misquoted.
As for his faults, at least he doesn't blub when he loses. Easy to make cheap shots isn't it?
I do not read the Daily Mail. Am really surprised that anyone with any intelligence does.

deuce...can you just back off please?......cheap shots? one joke about murray and you explode.....ridiculous.....get a friggin'grip....go look at the comments on the murray thread about addidas and count the people who have said they are not fans of murray....yeah deuce....N-O-T.......fans of murray.....secondly.....if you know a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g about cyprus...which you dont...you will know that the only paper...... british paper you can buy over there is the mail......how patronising of you deuce to think otherwise....god...what a baby you are over murray.....one joke and you react like this.....do try to grow up deuce...may be you could have a word with UK and ask them to send The Times over......you land at paphos airport......take a left....take a right...get onto the highway.....drive a long a mountainous bend.....you'll see my family's house at the top....blue french shutters....chickens in the garden.....we're a bit hicky like that you see......'surprised that anyone with any intelligence does'....and you call me patronising? actually deuce when i get back to UK....i cannot wait to read 'the sun'........its great for people like me.......you should try it sometime...

malteser: ooer I'm terrified, hit a mighty raw nerve there methinks.....

aaahhhhh! At LAST!!!!!
HUMOUR at least deuce...at least you know what it is.....and no...not a raw nerve....you just need to realise that for someone who likes to have a massive pop at federer (and have done so for the last 12 months)....THEN........ you come on and talk about patronising someone????? you are having a laugh!!!!!!!!!!! one joke about murray and you flip deuce...completely flip.....can't take it...so deuce, you know....chill a bit....murray is not well-liked for a number of reasons....and until you realise that....then you are always going to be feeling like this.....i think the raw nerve lies with you deuce....so dont give it........... unless you can take it....

ooooeeerrrrrr missus!!!!!

deuce: I believe we know each other from Tennis.X, but your screen name is different. Your mention of Murray as Andy M, and the other Peter Perfect makes me think that I'm correct. If you're not the same person, please disregard my post. If you are the same, then hello and glad to see you here as well.

malteaser: I notice you're from Cyprus. Isn't that Baghdatis country? If yes, are you a Baggy fan, and how popular is he over there? I love his smile. BTW, are you a gal or a guy.

Von, yes....Limassol...but family live in Limassol and Paphos...massive Baggy fan....he an idol in cyprus....yes...i do follow him....but he been subject to injury as you know......so out of a few tournaments......but federer is my 'top a the tree' player......

I am a gal.....(but with lots of testosterone....abnormally so....when it comes to the fight for the fed...!). and von.....it's 'teser'......(and deuce and I are fine.....).

malteser,

You're a gal? So am I! I guess you never know here.

Native, nice to see your great posts on my first visit back. (Computer died, may be the motherboard, and have been offline for awhile now) MiniArbre posts were fantastic too!! Same old fights going on I see and I see one main person that is always trying to stir everyone up.

Zoey, I saw what you wrote about my absence on the other thread. Thank you for your support. If my puter hadn't died that night, I might have taken a break due to ONE fellow Rafa fan's attack. The other one was not that bad. But until my puter gets fixed, I finally decided to try the local library's puter to update me on news. I also saw what you wrote malt and my advice is to lose the broomstick reference if you want to play nice---lol.

Where did maxi go? She just disappeared too it looks like.

Until whenever again, I'm sure torres will keep this place fighting for sure!

Good luck and good health to ALL the tennis players out there!

fan4tennis,

Great to see you here! My sympathies about your computer dying. The hard drive died on my less than one year old laptop on the Labor Day weekend. I got it fixed, but it cost a lot. I can't be without my computer.

Once you get your computer back, please be sure to come back. We need you here, fellow Rafa fan!

TY Native! The first couple days were the worst--lol. Been reading alot and cleaning my house and watching TV. I just bought a laptop not long ago but left it at my daughter's house so she could send me endless streams of my grandbaby's pics--lol. Looks like I may be headed to buy another one (*groan*).

I'll be back native sometime! As a Rafa fan, you might remember when Rafa was asked what was the best advice he had ever received. He said it was from his father and he told him to "stay the same." Rafa takes that to heart and never forgets that tennis is not everything and to remain the same as he was in character and spirit before he became so famous and rich. Native, I say those words to you also "stay the same" as your posts and views are always so reasonable and logical and honest!!! This site needs you more than it needs me--lol!

fan4tennis............i am soooooooooo pleased you are back! been missing your sarcastic retorts! broomstick lady!!!! (you knowww i dont mean it!)...(I knew you would be reading them though...). a short one from me tonight....deep deep assignment city! so perhaps catch you at the weekend.....well...i never thought i would see the day when i would say i missed me 'old pal'!......

f4t

i know all about being w/out the laptop. it could be worse tho, think how bad it would be if your computer crashed during a time when rafa was playing!

i am missing both roger and rafa. along with the other top players...hm, makes me wonder....muzz has a hall pass cos of his wrist but what about roddick, nole, delpo? will they be showing soon? nole and muzz have lotsa points to defend

fan4tennis,

You got me a little teary eyed with your kind comments. Don't worry, I'm not going anywhere. Besides, malteser asked me to stay and that's something coming from a die hard, love him no matter what, Federer fan! So I guess I will be able to survive.

I am proud to say that I have found some common ground with some special Fed fans here. That's a good thing. I am sure we will have our intense arguments and differences down the road, but for now all is peaceful until Rafa and Roger are back in action.

Rafa will always, always have my heart. I adore him. You know that I will be right there cheering him on as he defends his AO title. I want to see the Rafa of old, the one who managed to win both RG and Wimbledon back-to-back, win the Olympic gold medal, become #1 and then win AO. I want more grand slams for Rafa, many more!

I don't know that my voice is valued at that Rafa forum that I will not name. I am amazed to say that I think some of the wonderful Fed fans here have embraced me more than some of the volatile Rafa fans on that site. I think you know what I am talking about.

Anyway, whether you are here or not, know that I am thinking of you.

malteser: Sorry for misspelling your name! That's a big no no, bad girl! Also, thanks for the updates on Marcos. As I mentioned, I really like him, but am very disappointed that his career has been sidelined due to his many injuries. For a while, a couple of years ago, when he got to the AO final, I thought he would hit the top 10 and remain there. Unfortunately, that's not been the case, but he's young and can still do well when he's over his injuries. where there's life there's hope, isn't it?
*******************

NativeNY: "I am amazed to say that I think some of the wonderful Fed fans here have embraced me more than some...." I'd like to echo you on the Fed fans also. I've felt very welcome here by both Fed and Rafa fans.

You've mentioned your experience with some Nadal fans, but I can assure you that sort of thing happens not only with Nadal fans but among other posters who want to ingratiate themselves with others. I laugh when I see some posters begin adding on other players to their list of faves, by pretending to like those players, so that they could become popular with their fans, thereby becoming the center of attention and having a finger in every discussion. I've also seen instances when a new poster begins posting and they are ignored by the others, but immediately that new poster is noticed by me or another poster, then one or two make it their express mission to add on that poster's fave players and begin fighting their battles, to ingratiate themselves with the new posters. LOL. I marvel at their mindset and connivery and wonder why there's this insatiable need for attention and/or to be the main focus.

Also, jealousy is at times, the basis for that type of behaviour. I can tell you from my own experience where I've had people criticizing me on the amount of my posts between myself and another poster, and also attack the poster with whom I interact, especially if the poster I interact with don't discuss anything with my attackers. However, immediately my attackers are able to engage the new poster in a discussion the attacks on the new posters cease. Additionally, now that I've not been posting much on that other site, the same guy who accused me of posting too much to my "friends", is holding court, posting on every conceivable topic and is now the center of attention -- it's hilarious. It's funny but sad at the same time that people allow jealousy to eat away at them and in the process become envious monsters . I suppose the saying that if one has even a shred of personality one will evoke jealousy and criticism, rings true in these cases.

Von,

When I had some problems on one of the Rafa forums, a few people pm'd me to let me know that they had issues with the same person. They encouraged me to keep posting. I don't usually have serious problems with true Rafa fans, because we are coming from the same admiration and love for this young man. A few people did privately suggest that there might be a bit of jealousy or envy from those who did not feel that they could express themselves as well. I never assume those types of motives, but I guess they are as prevalent online as they are in real life.

My problems with Fed fans are simpler, because they come purely from our disparate views of our respective favorite. But with Rafa fans it's a bit more complex. I have been shocked at the anger directed at me when I refuse to join in with the general incessant complaining about myriad so-called Fed conspiracies against Rafa. I have stood my ground. I don't think there are ANY conspiracies against Rafa, from Fed or anyone else. I don't think that way.

I work really hard not to indulge in hatespeak. I think it's a terrible waste of energy and has become so common online. It's easy to say anything when you have anonymity to shield you. I understand where you are coming from with your own experiences. I agree that some are starved for attention and will say anything to get it. Remember, I was on that other site you came from and read more than I posted. So I learned a lot about the intricate workings of all the relationships. I never understood some of the harshness directed at you. I would read it and wonder what on earth could have provoked it. Maybe it is true that those with personality, intelligence, ability to articulate their thoughts and feelings, are those who may be targeted for attack.

But as you can see, we seem to be doing pretty well here. There will always be disputes, fights, arguments and lively discussion. That is fine with me. It's when it gets way too personal that it becomes unpleasant.

I love reading your thoughts. I hope you continue to feel welcome and enjoy being here.

smartcuty, where are you? I keep looking out for your posts to no avail. We want all the Rafans we can have on this site, and I just love reading your take on Rafa.

TY native and malt for your kind words. Zoey, if this had happened during the SF of the USO, I think you would've heard my scream--lol. You were there when all that went down and you know I was only trying to be objective. I think everyone agrees that Roger should not have sworn. I think the disagreement comes with the reason he did and he was frustrated and had IMO, had a valid point for arguing the call. He just handled it badly. Is he the first person to lose his cool on the court? NO. Will he be the last? NO. Should he have been fined? YES. Should he have been given a warning? YES. Should a point penalty be given? NO! Certain people argued about the point penalty and I kept saying that was wrong to do. Serena was given the PP because she had also been already given a warning earlier in the match. No such warning for anything had been given to fed earlier in the match so I thought calling for a PP for him was wrong. That's what got me into trouble with a fellow Rafa fan. I do not believe that in order to be a Rafa fan, you have to hate fed. I do not like him, but that is not because I am a fan of Rafa. Why can't fans of all different players speak their opinion when they feel something is not fair regarding a player that is not their fave? Why does everyone have to label each other as a fed fan or a Rafa fan? If I speak up for Murray or Nole, that doesn't mean I like Rafa any less. IT IS POSSIBLE to like more than one player!!! I also don't believe I have to bash fed into the ground in order to make Rafa look better. Rafa does quite well on his own--lol!!!

hi federer fans. yes. i am still here. have been on holiday for last two weeks at a retreat in France - Les Peyrouses - in the pyrennes- had a relaxing time not worrying about anything.If theres not much going on in relation to slams or masters - i tend to do other things and did go back to tennis.x to read posts more than anything. i will definitely be around for the slams- not long to wait now-
i have been reading the last couple of nights posts though and see new posters some of which i like and some which i think are shocking. how smartcuty can say such disgusting things about roger and not get caught, is really bad. on tennis.x he would have been redflagged by now. i hope that he/she doesnt last long and for anyone to support that sort of language, makes them no better. fan4tennis, i see in one of your posts you mentioned me - i am still here - but not as frequent. i find the hearing world very stressful sometimes and need to rebalance. it is difficult to explain.i hadnt been to retreat before, but it was so calming.really helped me. malteser - so you think i am nice but boring.i dont really care what you think.because i dont like to get into fights is my choice,not yours.i actually think that i am objective,at least i try to be,it seems the more objective you are on this forum,the more people want you to fight.i have passion,but i use it more productively.if that makes me boring,then i am happy with that.am still jetlagged, so hoping that all federer fans are well and still supporting roger all the way.
cheers federer fans and will probably see you all at the weekend.

fan4tennis: "Why can't fans of all different players speak their opinion when they feel something is not fair regarding a player that is not their fave? Why does everyone have to label each other as a fed fan or a Rafa fan?"

I've always had a problem with this, and I feel as you do with respect to speaking up on one's opinions. I honestly don't understand why this happens, because that's the mission of forums, whereby the bloggers should be able to express their opinions reasonably, without being attacked and/or abused. At times, I feel deprived of speech and that my rights to freedom of speech have been taken away, which is grossly unfair IMO. However, I have learnt, (after having to endure some very nasty attacks by fans of some players because I dared to speak up, which has caused me to be targeted and ultimately resulted in my wanting to leave a site after posting there for 19 months) that it's best to play it safe and refrain from voicing one's opinion on some players and topics for the sake of peace, even though those opinions and remarks have merit and are true in most cases.

As an extension, and furtherance of my discussion with Nativeny on 9/30/09 @ 6:36 AM, on jealousy and some posters' quest for attention, I believe that the anonymity of the Internet reveals the true personalities of some whereby it affords them the privilege to engage in nitpicking, animosity, (sometimes bordering on hatred) jealousy and the competition for attention. Also, let's not forget that some people use forums as a conduit to unleash their pent up emotions and unhappiness they feel deep down inside. To me, it seems like a cheap way for them to engage in a venting session and not having to pay a psychologist. LOL. Additionally, some are able to receive the attention they so deeply crave which they do not have in their personal lives. I have seen instances where some posters repeatedly ask the same questions, and keep the same discussions going, thereby entailing several posts, even though those topics were discussed previously and the questions were answered many, many times over and over again. For me, that's senseless, a waste of time and energy, and an exercise in futility, as much of the same information can be googled or found on the ATP and ITF websites, so why even venture to become embroiled in a discussion. And, I'm sure those posters are aware of, and remember this, but yet they keep up the charade, and engage others in the discussions. I've seen a poster do this time and time again with new posters -- he/she will target a new poster, who clearly shows that they're not interested in engaging in discussions, but just only posting whatever they have to say and move one. However, the other poster who doing the targeting, will keep including the new poster and referencing him/her until the new poster finally breaks down and begins reciprocating by getting into a discussion with the other one. That blows my mind, and I don't understand the motives behind that action. I've also seen where some habitually make it a point to reference other posters in their posts. Again, I don't know why, but to me, it appears as though they are looking to open a discussion, gain some attention and increase their popularity by appearing to be friendly, etc.. These are just some of my experiences and as I stated earlier, I've learnt to spot them and try to work around them. Believe me, for the sake of peace, it's necessary to keep quiet, ignore and overlook a lot of what happens.

"IT IS POSSIBLE to like more than one player!!!"

Yes, it is possible to like more than one player, and I like several, but have one favourite. What I have found though, some posters use this as a means to gain favour with other posters by jumping on some posters' fave players' bandwagon. That kind of scenario I find to be phoney and I have a problem dealing with at times. When I see this happening, I want to scream out:"you big phoney, just a while back you said you didn't like the player, now you're defending him just because you want to be friendly with {insert name of poster here}. To me that's sad, because I don't feel that the poster is being truthful but only looking to gain attention, increasing their popularity, while using another. I try to live by: "To thine own self be true", and even though this IS the Internet, there's really no reason anyone should become a phoney to obtain attention and become the most popular. that kind of stuff is what kids and adolescents like to do.

"I also don't believe I have to bash fed into the ground in order to make Rafa look better."

The very basis of psychology on human behaviour, in order to look good and feel exalted, some think they have to bring down others by ridiculing them. Bashing on forums is the MO of some posters to uplift their fave and degrade another. It happens, and is par for the course .....

fan4tennis,

You don't think we need you here? Another voice of reason? Yes, we do! You and I are in complete agreement that as Rafa fans, we don't have to hate Fed or anyone else. I also agree with your basic assessment of the whole Federer fine issue. I gave up bringing it up again and again, because I didn't wish to go over the same points that had been discussed ad infinitum. But I think your view is reasonable.

Thank goodness we don't have to hate other players in order to elevate Rafa. He wouldn't want that. At times I have had issues with some of Fed's comments, but that has precisely nothing to do with the neverending, mindless conspirace theories about him trying to keep Rafa from winning. As if anyone or anything could keep Rafa from winning! Ridiculous and absurd. I think some of those Rafa fans do him a real disservice when they whine about his draw, the tournament scheduling or possible rain delays or any of a number of things. Rafa is not a victim, nor does he subscribe to that mentality. He takes it as it comes and deals with it. This is an example that many of us should try to follow. I love Rafa's attitude. I love how he stays in the moment, taking it one match at at time, never looking ahead. That's what I decided to do in the US Open. For once, I wasn't going to drive myself crazy with worry. I just wanted to enjoy the sheer pleasure of seeing Rafa play again.

Von,

You should be a psychologist. You have a way of analyzing the motives behind the behavior of some problem people online. We should give it a name. Maybe internet personality disorder, i.e. the need to create disruption for the sake of it, thereby drawing attention to oneself. I like that!

I fully expect things to heat up here as we come closer to the 2010 AO. Maybe sooner than that, once Rafa and Roger return to play. But I am going to try to remember to keep a civil tongue and be respectful of different opinions. I do get passionate about Rafa, but I don't want it to degenerate into something ugly. I was targeted and character assassinated on tennis-x, so I don't want to do the same to anyone else. Nobody deserves that, even if you can hide behind the anonymity of the internet.

Nativeny: "Von, You should be a psychologist. You have a way of analyzing the motives behind the behavior of some problem people online ."

LOL, If you only knew. Needless to say I think I have a piece of paper which says I should know what I'm talking about, but do I really? LOL again. I decided to not pursue that path because I got too involved with other people's problems and had to do the unthinkable switch to another career and 4 additional years of schooling. At least I'm happier now. In the field it's called 'AID" Associative Identity disorder' or the old one "Multiple personality disorder". LOL. The Internet, I've learnt, has a way of allowing these many personalities to express themselves. It's sad really and I don't want to make light of it, but I see it happening all the time, and sometimes I feeling like shouting out to the offenders to stop it. Anyway, moving one ....

Question to anyone: I've found that after I've finished typing a long post and I hit send my post disappears. has this happenend to anyone else? since that has happened to me a few times now, before I hit send, i copy my post and when the unthinkable happens, I paste it back. Sometimes I take so long typing (I'm only a two finger typist) that I have to log on again. If anyone has encountered this problem, I would suggest they copy their long posts before hitting send.

Von, Native,
Do not take people at face value. Unfortunately the posts that really implicate f4t, who was prepared to diss Rafa in order to get brownie points from Fedfans were lost due to technical faults. What I can't stand are people who would sell the reputation of the player they say they admire in order to be liked by Fedfans. No Fedfan would be seen doing anything of the sort. She is now trying to present herself as a reasonable Rafan who sees the good in everyone, whilst trying to paint other people in a bad light. You don't have to keep changing your colours to be in with everyone, that's being a hypocrite.

Federer has enough people fighting his corner, we don't need two faced Rafans joining in as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwAwhlc_G_g&feature=SeriesPlayList&p=79 7B170CFC93C3D9

This is what I call tennis talk. Not carrie's definition of tennis talk which is really just 'thrash talk'.

It's all about matchups.

Von,
It has happened to me before too. I think this site logs us off after a certain timeframe. I've noticed if I start a comment and press the send button after awhile because I got distracted by other things that I find myself logged out and therefore the comment doesn't go through.

You are right, if you take too long composing your comment you risk being logged off. Unless you go to the top of the page and check you are still logged on, there is no way of knowing this has happened. Very frustrating to lose a carefully thought out comment!

The answer to is quite simple. Before pressing 'send', ALWAYS make a 'copy' of the text you have written, then if you are logged off simply paste this copy into a new comment box.

carrie , what the hell is wrong with you woman ? its one thing to get all worked up when you see people writing negative remarks about someone you adore .... but to get worked up because your fan mates are not joining you in becoming anti fed is just so damn sad . i hope you get help .

Everyone in this site including you and me have positive and negative feeling about players . Frankly speaking , thats fine ! But to hope and preach that other like or dislike the players for support or are against is too much . Its borderline insane .
Get a grip woman !

And now ...back to tennis ..

Torr ...true dat ! thats tennis talk . i follow those dudes quite often . they do a good job with their reviews sometimes .. and sometimes they are just not too good .

Cheers Federites !

C'MON !!

fedexfan, you are not making sense.

carrie, in all my posts about that incident, I referred to you as "a fellow Rafa fan" but since you outed yourself, now all know who it was (was that your point in doing that.. to get attention?). Your idea of "dissing Rafa" was that I said that Rafa has cursed too but is smart enough to do it in Spanish and not loud enough for the microphones to pick up (i.e. "audible obscenity"). You complain that others have placed fed on a pedastal and you are doing the same thing with Rafa! I KNOW you have seen the PS videos of him cursing and in his underpants. It isn't a crime to face reality that my fave player also curses. You reacted as though I said he let loose a stream of expletives at every match! He isn't perfect, so quit putting him on the pedastal since you obviously despise others for doing the same thing for fed.

As far as brownie points from the fedfans.........LMAO!!!!!!!! I think I have shown that I don't care if they like what I say. I have always said that if I saw something I thought was unfair, then I would speak up. This time it involved fed and that's what gets your dander up, isn't it?? And may I ask, what do online brownie points from people I don't even know get me anyway?--LOL

I have long suspected that you are also a member of vb (your posts here mirror posts there and you have transferred certain nicknames thought up there to here) so I am not surprised that you feel that you have to hate fed in order to be a Rafa fan. Your hatred for fed blinds you to reality. It makes me wonder if you hate fed more than you like Rafa since you seem to thrive on bashing fed.

Von, your idea about 'fairweather fans' is true in any sport. I have always stated that I like Rafa, Murray and Nole and I do not like fed. If any of those were to face Rafa, then everyone knows that I will be rooting for Rafa. I hate the idea that when someone says something good about another player that is NOT their fave player, then their fan quotient is called into question. It is sad to think that you cannot speak good of anyone else but your fave player, otherwise you may be called "two faced" or your motives are thought suspect. You said,
"When I see this happening, I want to scream out:"you big phoney, just a while back you said you didn't like the player, now you're defending him just because you want to be friendly with {insert name of poster here}. To me that's sad, because I don't feel that the poster is being truthful but only looking to gain attention, increasing their popularity, while using another."

To defend a valid point (fed had a right to be frustrated but handled it badly) and be objective is considered bad???? Because I state I do not like fed, yet was objective, means that I am a phony? You may have chosen to "play it safe" and refrain from voicing your opinions, but I haven't. If objectivity cannot be handled by other people, it is THEIR problem, not mine. I have nothing to gain from posting on this site. These are simply my opinions which you said we should be able to do on a blog site.

What on earth is vb? I have no idea what you are talking about, and as for outing myself, perhaps you are scared of some Fedfans and suck up to them, I'm scared of no one and free to say what I want.

At least I am not a sanctimonious hypocrite like you. You keep talking about being objective, in your eyes, being objective is seeing everything from your point of view.

am completely hacked off.....spent 10 mins writing a long post only for it to go 'poof'....up...up and away! gone! so this time its going to be shorter......

carrie.....you are making this a witchhunt against fft...you know we have had our fights....but can you not see that fft...is lightning up a while......its refreshing.....the woman is warmer.....yet still a staunch rafa fan...you and fft were always the leaders of team rafa...and because fft says a few positive things about our dear beloved roge....you turn on her like some rabid dog? i know fft...i know....you can look after yourself....but have broken free from an assignment for a break...and find that carrie is still droning oooonnnnn...with the bashing...carrie...you are becoming less appealing in terms of your posts....you are becoming much too personal.......how dare you call her a hypocrite......the woman has been a stalwart of this forum for teamrafa for......?????18 months????longer.....you also used to be a lot more beguiling with your summary of federer until lately......fft doesnt need to suck up to anyone carrie...(and fft....dont think that i love you any more...cos i dont!)....but carrie....really.....give it up.....you are making this a personal vendetta against someone who.................. you would always support and vice versa......stop being a judas carrie..........you turn your back on your best friend on this forum? what does that say about you??????????

native/von........fft and i go back a long way.....the woman has a lot of tennis knowledge...but is irritating as hell sometimes....but she grows on you....eventually....like a green mould.....(xx)...you cannot help but like her......

unfortunately......i think that carrie has definitely lost the plot........in a big way......fft isnt the santimonious hypocrite carrie....you are.....so just back off......as fedex says............get a grip............you have made me mad tonight.......spiteful...really spiteful.....and i wasnt planning on logging back on til weekend........

actually fft...i'd like to know what vb means as well....(i only know it as an australian beer?).....

zoey...sky....babes.....sorry not been on for last few nights....so much work....but will be back at weekend...and perhaps we can talktennis.....??????

f4t, you brought Rafa in purely to justify what Federer did, accusing me of hating Federer because I asked if anyone knew if he had been fined or not and for saying he should have got a warning because he rounded on the umpire just like Serena rounded on the line judge. You have now reiterated that you think Federer should have been fined and that he was wrong to swear, complete u-turn to what you were saying the other day. If you say people are entitled to their opinion, why am I not entitled to mine?

You also accused me of welcoming a Rafan - smartcuty- onto TT, because you say she uses bad language, and because of that I have no right to condemn Federer. The administrators have the job to deal with bad language, not me, and if I agree with the views of a poster, it doesn't necessarily mean that I approve of their language.

Did you not welcome malteser back by saying something to the effect that you had been defending Federer? Don't make out to be something you are not, you are trying to please some people on this forum. Why? I don't know.

You are just trying to paint yourself as some innocent objective person, who will never say a bad word about anyone. Your judjement of people's character is totally flawed. Just as you were wrong to think that maxi was malteser, so you are completly wrong about me going on vb, that I've never heard of.

Why would I be scared of "some Fedfans"? What can they do to me? Do they know where I live and are coming to get me? I'm sure many fedfans on here can remind you of many instances where they did not like what I had to say about fed (zoey, malt, fedex, torres, etc....). If I wasn't scared then, why would I be scared now when I defended his right to frustration? You make no sense!

Being objective means being fair and reasonable. If anyone else but fed would've done this, you wouldn't have made such a fuss. It's because someone you obviously hate so much did it, so anyone saying anything against your view is automatically called a "sanctimonious hypocrite" and "two faced" and not a proper Rafa fan IN YOUR VIEW!!! You went ballistic when I said that Rafa has cursed as if I was blasphemous! He's a 23 year old kid and has been caught cursing many times on youtube. Get real woman! I guess you also believe he has never been kissed, never had sex, never dated, and never touched a drop of alcohol either. He is a human 23 year old so quit making him out to be perfect!

You wrote:
"Federer has enough people fighting his corner, we don't need two faced Rafans joining in as well."

Since when is it a rule that a fan of Rafa cannot defend anything dealing with fed? Or is that YOUR rule? It is certainly not Rafa's!

F4T, so you've said things about Federer that some people didn't like? Allow me the privilege.

Oh carrie, how quickly you forget! DURING the final, after fed had his explosion, you came on and posted a very snide comment about it and also started calling for a point penalty like Serena! Quite a few, me included, said that you could not compare what fed did to what Serena did. You kept pressing that he should have been given a point penalty (I noticed lately that you have now backed off that and said he should be given a warning so it is YOU that has changed her view). I have not changed my point of view and that is that fed had a right to be frustrated with the ump allowing the challenge call BUT I have NEVER defended his right to swear and curse at the umpire. You, carrie, kept going on and on about fed's cursing, and I mentioned several other players that curse regularly and also said Rafa curses but it's in Spanish and not picked up by the microphones (I noticed several posted links to videos of it) and that is when you went berserk. How dare I say Rafa curses?? OMG, the horror!!! So quit acting like you asked an innocent question and were attacked--lol. Anyone can go to the match report on here of the final and see for themselves!

As far as certain fed fans that you mention. Zoey came back, apologized, and I thought it best to start anew. What happened with her was directly after Wimby final. I let it go....why can't you? As far as malt... same thing. Time has passed and I saw no reason to drag all the past up and keep that animosity going. I let it go.......why can't you??

F4T, so you've said things about Federer that some people didn't like? Allow me the privilege.
carrie , 10/1/09 9:27 PM

I doubt anything you come up with will come as any surprise to anyone on here, but go ahead with your mission--LOL

I could not have said a point penalty, because that is only given for the second offence. So I went on about Fed's bad language, is that against the law?

Anyway, I am bored with this discussion now.

malteser: "native/von........fft and i go back a long way.....the woman has a lot of tennis knowledge...but is irritating as hell sometimes....but she grows on you....eventually....like a green mould.....(xx)...you cannot help but like her......"

You're so very funny. I hope I can grow on you with my personality but if and when I do, please don't ever liken me to a green mold. puhleease. I can't bear the though of becoming a 'green mold'. LOL.

cable and ed251137 : Thanks for your kind responses. At least now I know I'm not imagining things. I've gotten hip to what's happening to my posts, and I now make a copy before hitting the 'send' button. I've composed some very long, well thought out posts, only to have them chewed up, and the sequels were not as good. Thanks again guys.

malteser,

Yikes! Green mold ? Really? I hope you never think I am green mold. Maybe a thorn in your side, a pain in your butt, a bea in your bonnet? I think things have gotten kind of out of control here. I dislike the idea that Rafa fans must fit into one of two categories - two-faced or hypocritical Rafa fans, or real dyed in the wool, diehard Rafa fans. This is truly absurd. Rafa fans are allowed to have an opinion about Fed or any other player. It can be positive or negative. I didn't know there were rules as to what Rafa fans should or should not say. I like to think it's up to me to make up my own mind.

I have been clear in saying that I believe Fed deserved to be fined for using profanity at the chair umpire in the US Open final. That's it as far as I am concerned. That issue has precisely nothing to do with Rafa. Unfortunately, some Fed fans have brought Rafa into this discussion. Whether Rafa swears, when he swears, how he swears, if he swears, in what language he swears, is not pertinent to this discussion. Fed and Rafa are joined by their history, but that does not mean that they must inevitably be joined together in any discussion about only one of them.

I don't think there should be a set of guidelines or rules for Rafa fans. I like to think that I can speak my mind and think for myself. If someone wants to question my genuine love and admiration for Rafa merely because I don't hate Fed with a burning passion, well then bring it on! I want to have that argument any day of the week. I have had issues with some of Fed's comments about Rafa in the past. I don't necessarily like some of Fed's behavior. When it comes down to Fed and Rafa in a match, I will be cheering for Rafa every single time. For that matter, when it comes down to anybody on the other side of the net from Rafa, I will be rooting against them. That's just the way it is with me.

I reserve the right to decide for myself if someone isn't a sincere Rafa fan. But that's not my primary reason for being here. I am not the "Rafa fan police", so it's not my job to discover the motives or meaning behind what everyone writes. If a person claims to be a fan of Rafa, I will give them the benefit of the doubt until they give me reason to believe that they are not for real.

von and native..................do.... n-o-t go anywhere..............voices of reason....and i think 'fft' county police!!!!! (**chuckle**).

the only thing i would... disagree with you on native is that federer.......did...NOT...swear AT the umpire...go watch the vid again.....other than that.......love...reading your posts.......fft is a softer....lady now.....the woman is a stalwart like i said about rafa...she used to bash the fed....and i used to bash her!!! when that happened.....but now....this....'you said this.....(from carrie).....yes you did (from carrie).....is too personal.......need to move it along.......fft dont need help from anyone.....but her and carrie with two peas in a pod at one time..........so this is sad that carrie is so vicious towards her....not necessary....can only assume carrie is going slightly mad........

c'mon! the federer! the boss man! federites U-N-I-T-E.........
rocking roger rolls on!!!!!
allez...allez...allez......

mwah zoey and sky!

I find myself imagining how humorous it must be for Fed fans to watch Rafa fans have at each other. It's positively mind boggling! I am kind of amazed at what is going on here.

carrie,

You called me out when I first came here. I remember writing how Rafa always manages to surmount any obstacle and you immediately went on the attack. You completely misunderstood my meaning. But being new here, I felt the need to explain myself. What I wrote was such a tribute to Rafa and how nothing can ever stand in his way. But you jumped on me so fast. I was taken aback. I just don't get it. Why do you think that you are the one who knows who is and who isn't a Rafa fan? Can you see through the page as people post their thoughts and know what is in their minds and hearts? Or is it as simple as the fact that those who don't praise Rafa in the right way, are then to be exposed as fakes? You have passionately defended Rafa and you deserve credit for that. But then you start looking for things that just aren't there. I can't think of any reason for someone to fake being a Rafa fan or to try to ingratiate themselves with Fed fans by saying phony nice things about him. You make this just too complicated. People are just saying how they feel. Maybe their feelings change, who knows! What's the difference?

Both Von and I have been attacked unfairly on another site. I will let Von speak for herself. She is more than capable of doing so. But I can say that it is a hurtful thing to endure. It can drive people away. I don't know fan4tennis all that well, but it would be a shame for this person to feel that they can't post here anymore after being attacked as a pseudo Rafa fan.

By the way, the "vb" stands for vamos brigade. It's a Rafa forum which has some people who get a little carried away with the Fed hate, the conspiracies and the negativity. There are many wonderful people there who love Rafa and eloquently express their feelings. It's odd, but I find it's the conspiracy theorists, and negativists who are the ones guilty of criticizing Rafa in the harshest way. It's enough to get me to leave and head for the hills!

I don't know the ins and outs here the way malty does. Maybe alliances and friendships change frequently. But I didn't come here to get with the "in" crowd. I go my own way, say what I want to say, and try to be respectful even as I disagree with people and just enjoy the discussion. I could challenge malty about the Fed cursing thing, but then we would be going over old ground. We aren't going to agree, so I will let it go. (smiling!)

Native, from what I remember you said you didnt believe in the conspiracy theory and then went on to say that Rafa always manages to overcome all obstacles, and I said in that case you must think that there are obstacles put in his way. That was all.

This topic died a long time ago, but f4t decided to bring it up again for reasons best known to herself. Anyone is free to disagree with what I say, but no poster has the right to sanction my views, and rebuke me for expressing them because they don't see things the way I see it, and to use unproven allegations against Rafa for swearing on court in order to defend Federer when you say you are a fan of Rafa's doesn't really tie up. There was no need to bring Rafa in at all.

fan4tennis: " Because I state I do not like fed, yet was objective, means that I am a phony? You may have chosen to "play it safe" and refrain from voicing your opinions, but I haven't."

I am new to this site, hence I'm unaware as to what transpired between you and the other posters here. FYI, I'm neither a Fed nor Nadal fan and as such I refrain from commenting on either player, as much as possible. I comment on general stuff but that's as far as my comments go, and I doubt you'd find me taking sides. When I have an opinion I state it, but I try to do so in a neutral way.

Anyway, with respect to the above quoted comments, I think you have taken my remarks out of context. I was not referring to you or anyone in particular, especially not anyone on this site. My remarks pertain to a continuing discussion I had with Nativenewyorker (we both posted on another site before coming here) and I was merely stating my experience on blogging and the vacillating I see happening on some sites whereby some posters say one thing and then do something different. And, that's the basis for my remarks that when I see that happening I feel like saying the person is being a phony. Anyway, I think the topic is best left alone and whatever has happened in the past should be left back there. Therefore, how about if we were all to just keep, moving on ......

fan4t: how gr8 2 c u back! Welcome, welcome. Now, if only dear remi would return.
malteser: yes, u an d I r good becos I like your passion 4 Fed., but your memory deceives you, I have NEVER dissed Fed and indeed, after a post of mine, during French Open you called me "honorary member" of FedFanClub I seem to remember.

deuce: I asked you a question a while back. My post followed your response to malteser's on the Murray attack. Just in case you didn't see my post, I'll ask you again. Do you and I know each other from another site? You remind me of another poster on a different site -- A Murray fan, and you refer to him as Andy M and Federer as peter Perfect which is why i asked due to the similarities. Even though your screen name is dfferent, your writing style is just like that other person. Are you the same poster? I don't want to mention that poster's name for the sake of privacy. Anyway, if you choose not to answer I'll understand, and my apologies for asking, but curiosity has gotten the better of me that's all, and i just thought we could be friends here as well like we were on the other site.

Hi deuce.......yes...of course we are good.....why shouldnt we be good? but please...put things into perspective buddy...it was you that had the gooey shakes when i made a joke about murray....and we are talking about ONE joke deuce..(which i had thought was rather good....!!!)...you zoomed in on me like a tyrannasaurus rex.....who'd had a real bad day....and hit me with your rapier tongue deuce....(yes...you did...you did!)...so how else was i supposed to respond to that? it was you that brought up the fed shedding some emotion (love him...)...then went on to expose the weaknesses of living in the mountains of paphos with no access to the Times...you had a pop at my country deuce.....low...low...low.....but really......time has moved on.... really...yeah we are cool....

this one is for native.....
could challenge malty about the Fed cursing thing, but then we would be going over old ground. We aren't going to agree, so I will let it go. (smiling!)
Nativenewyorker , 10/2/09 9:04 AM

Native, by all means challenge me here...seriously.....it was NOT aimed at the umpire...his expletive was aimed at the situation/the rules......so we could be talking about semantics here until the sun sets.....cool....with a beer in hand...can you feel the love native.....can you feel the love????.........but strangely....i like what you say...and clearly you have had a tough time of it elsewhere.....as it would appear has von.....so you two know each others styles...warts...mould and all! (*wink*)....but in all honesty......since returning....things dont change very much.....but what does bother me is the personal hatred/language about federer who is a fine human being....mighty fine.....

okay guys...this is for the american crew out there.....only because i just found this in jon weinheim's mailbag and first of all.....mis read it....thought he was trashing federer.....thank god i re-read it....was just about to kick his butt!......anyhow....can any of you tell me...... what it was that was said in MJ's speech? sounded really really bad.....anyhow......as weinheim said....federer is....... p-u-r-e-c-l-a-s-s.........

Many sports media members are still discussing Michael Jordan's vindictive speech at his induction into the Basketball Hall of Fame. Am I off to say Jordan's rancor is akin to that of Jimmy Connors? Connors did not attend the opening of Arthur Ashe Stadium in 1997. He initially balked at being inducted into the International Tennis Hall of Fame in 1998, contending that he had never retired. What do you suppose makes Jimbo and Air Jordan tick? Is it a personality type that does not age well?
-- Dan Martin, Dayton, Ohio

? You know the first person I thought of when I heard about Jordan's monologue? Roger Federer. In a million years, could you ever imagine such a tone-deaf, ungracious, self-absorbed speech at his Hall of Fame induction? Could you even begin to conceive of his calling out former junior rivals, recalling decades-old feuds, trashing Rafael Nadal, making only awkward passing reference to his own kids and threatening a comeback at 50? The Jordan apologists have cited this as an example of his "pride," a vivid illustration of his "fierce competitiveness," his "killer instinct." Whatever.

Episodes such as this ought to heighten our respect and admiration for Federer, who's managed to achieve all he's achieved without such an aggressive streak, without the me-against-the-world self-delusion. The knock on Federer is that he's not a killer, that doesn't have that "assassin mentality." To me, it's just made his accomplishments all the more impressive. He became tennis' analogue to Jordan based on his physical ability, superior fitness and accomplishments on the big stage, but without that "killer instinct" and the attendant nastiness.

FEDERER FANS.....will catch you at the weekend sometime.......



Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_wertheim/10/01/mailb ag/#ixzz0SmyQotVW
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malteser: as you will defend Fed with your mighty sword...so I will defend Andy M with my rapier........

deuce babe.....'my trusty sword...'....and i wouldn't expect anything less from you...just remember though.....try to take a joke......there are plenty out there....so if i give....and you give....we both need to take it......that's all.....enjoy your weekend.....have just finished my assignment....and need light relief now.....i kind of hate this 'inbetween' time......dont you? a
nd in all seriousness deuce...what exactly is it about murray that you like?

his rippling muscles, malt...

stu.......you mean.....nothing to do with his tennis?????......your soooo shallow!

stu, just for you :)

http://www.danilo.com/Celeb_SportPersonality/Products/Andy_Murra y

enjoy.

malteser: ....his handsome face, his rippling muscles, his tanned svelte body, his gentle charming speech, his deference, his media savvy, his polished vowels, his haircut, his impeccable table manners....and....and....I almost forgot, his magic shot making, incredible speed round the court and his superb defence game......

malty,

I fear an argument between us coming on! (Oh no!). Just when we were getting along rather well. Just to clarify, yes, Von and I knew each other on another site, but I think her point is well taken and we should just leave it in the past and now look ahead. This is a great place to chat, so it's all good.

But how can you say that Fed wasn't cursing at the chair umpire when he said to him - Don't f----- tell me when to talk. I don't think the sentence is the exact quote, except for the profanity. He wasn't just cursing to himself. I watched the whole final and clearly remember that whole exchange. The camera had a closeup on Fed when he was uttering his words and they were very clear. He said s--- and the other word. He was arguing because he served an ace and Delpo said he wasn't ready for the serve and they had to play the point again. I think he also got mad when Delpo waited too long to challenge a call. Fed rarely loses his cool, so I was playing close attention.

You get touchy about the issue as to whether Fed was cursing at the chair umpire. Well, I take issue with the fact that Rafa and his cursing was brought up in the first place. You and I both know that Rafa doesn't have anything to do with this. But you get so excited about this whole thing. I thought we had put it to rest, but I see we haven't.

Good heavens, on one hand I am dealing with an upset Rafa fan and now a diehard, devoted Fed fan. I am feeling a bit schizophrenic right now. Who am I? Where am I? (grinning!)

carrie,

I still have no idea why you think that saying Rafa can surmount any obstacle in his path is a reference to conspiracies. I was speaking of injuries, a tough draw, rain delays and having only one day's rest after his tough five set semifinal match against Verdasco at the 2009 AO. I was paying tribute to his great spirit and will to win. I was NOT, repeat NOT, speaking of any so-called Fed conspiracies or tournament official conspiracies to get him to lose.

For the very last time, my point is that nothing can stop Rafa from winning. He has such a fierce will to win that it cannot be destroyed. He managed to survive Fed coming back after being two sets down in the 2008 Wimbledon, several rain delays and managed to win in the dark. How many players can say that? That is why I love Rafa so much. He will never give up. Why you relate this to any conspiracies, I have no idea. Rafa hasn't had to deal with that, because as I have said before, there ARE NO conspiracies against him.

I didn't bring up Rafa swearing. Torres brought it up by posting the link to the 2007 match in which Rafa got mad at a bad call from hawkeye. How many times do I have to say here that whether Rafa swears or how he swears or if he swears or in what language he swears, has nothing to do with the subject being discussed here, namely Fed swearing and getting fined.

yaddyy...yaddy....yahhhhhh....deuce...it's all good.....

native....i am not touchy.....my friend...i could say the same about you....i have watched the exchange with fed many times.....many times.....and it wasnt me who brought rafa into the exchange...torres did that (and justly/rightly so in my view)...i believe what he was saying (i cannot believe we are still on this....).....was that all players swear...some more badly than others....and i think deuce will agree..that the worst....is murray....very bad..... gonzo second....in my view....and roddick third......and did you read the article by pat cash? posted by niloofar???? go read it native.....its old news now.....in fact....i'll do it for you...but have to go scroll up a few posts....)...but totally dig where you are coming from....you are passionate for rafa....(*whoop...whoop*)...and i am passionate about fed...(*doooo the okey...cokey....yeah..put your left leg in...your left leg out...in out in out...shake it all about.....*) in fact native....i'll post it when ive found the link....in about 5......
listen.....you say what the hell you want on this forum....i dont know what the problem was that you had on the other forum.....not really that interested....just by reading your posts....you seem pretty level headed to me.....same with von.....you spend a lot of thought and precision before you say it.....just let things flow....and remember the slogan.....fed is the best!!!!

native...here it is.....
(from Pat Cash)....article....

The 2009 US Open will be remembered by many as the Grand Slam Juan Martin Del Potro stunned Roger Federer. Did you see that coming?

"I think most people were shell-shocked by Del Potro thumping (Rafael) Nadal like he did in the semi-final. After that I think people thought there could be a potential upset but I don't think anyone really thought he could do it. He did play very well once he got into the match and of course everyone loves watching Federer play but I think in many ways people were quite relieved to see another face on the scene."

How far do you think Del Potro can go now he has got that first major under his belt?

"I don't know for sure. I would think he would get another Grand Slam at some stage. I think he and Murray will be fighting it out at a few Grand Slams. I think Djokovic is an outside bet now. There are other good players like (Jo-Wilfried) Tsonga and (Gael) Monfils - they are two great French players, but I still see Federer and Nadal being at the top, but for the first time in either of their careers there are some serious threats to them."

You said a moment ago that no-one expected Del Potro to beat Federer. Do you think Federer himself was as surprised as anyone with the way Del Potro played? We saw footage on TV of Federer swearing at the umpire at one point, do you think that was a measure of how rattled he was?

"First of all the umpire deserved everything he got, that was absolutely ridiculous to tell Roger Federer to be quiet. I think he was more surprised at how poorly he played, I think that was the worst final he has ever played, but it is a sign of the times. There are players who will not put up with his junk - he hit a lot of junk. Nadal and Murray have been able to deal with it and it is a sign of the times. The guys are coming towards the net now and Federer hit the ball all over the place, he will be very disappointed with the way he played in that match. He let Del Potro back in and that is very un-Federer like. In many ways I think he didn't concentrate, but you have good days and bad days and in a way it is nice seeing Federer having a bad day because it proves he is human."

Nativeny: "I am feeling a bit schizophrenic right now. Who am I? Where am I? (grinning!)"

Remember, it's called "Associative identity disorder" and it seems to be in full bloom, considering you don't know who, and where you are. Hello!! You're Nativeny, and you're on TennisTalk. ..... LOL and LOL again.
______________

malteser: I think Haas and Ferrer should be put before Roddick when it comes to the umpire tussles and on-court tiffs. LOL. I think Roddick is the loudest speaker of the lot plus he speaks English, which is the reason people think he does it more than some of the other players.

As I've mentioned before, and I'll say it again, I'm not one who becomes upset by the umpire/player arguments. The umpires can be very problematic at times, and when a player is intent on winning, the bad calls and other stuff adds more pressure to the situation, which causes the player to feel more tense and the need to vent. and, who else should they vent on, but the umpires. LOL. I think these guys are all nice in their own way, and even though we have our likes and dislikes as to their personalities, which we are allowed to have, IMO, their umpire problems should be of the least concern to any of us. Anyway, that's just my feelings on the matter, but you are all free to discuss it and entitled to your opinions on the subject matter. I'll just read and laugh, and I love to laugh. Anyway, moving on .......

von,
yes..of course....we can all easily get caught up in heat of the moment cant we? see a patch of red before our eyes and do a back flip...even a double at times.....but honestly....i really do feel that this episode has been blown way out of proportion...and i mean...way out...

have a good day von.....

carrie,

I still have no idea why you think that saying Rafa can surmount any obstacle in his path is a reference to conspiracies. I was speaking of injuries, a tough draw, rain delays and having only one day's rest after his tough five set semifinal match against Verdasco at the 2009 AO. I was paying tribute to his great spirit and will to win. I was NOT, repeat NOT, speaking of any so-called Fed conspiracies or tournament official conspiracies to get him to lose.

Nativenewyorker , 10/3/09 8:30 AM


I understand now that you have expanded on what you said. It was only natural for me to have taken it in the context of conspiracy theories which is what was being discussed at the time.

Native, I have never ever said you brought up the swearing, it was f4t I said brought it up, because f4t and I had a long discussion about the whole Federer business in a series of posts that were lost due to technical faults, and I just couldn't see how a Rafan would decide to smear Rafa in order to defend Federer, when, officially, Rafa has never used bad language on court, it is all hearsay, and I personally, had never heard of it unti this episode with Federer. Rafa has his faults, so there is no need to let Federer's faults rub off on him as well. I wasn't the only one Rafa fan f4t was attacking that day because of Roger, infact the other Rafan hasn't posted anything since then, although I'm not sure why.

I always enjoy reading your posts and have no gripe whatsoever about anything you've said. I was just trying to make my case for the conspiracy theory.

As I said earlier, this thread should be put to bed now because the case is closed, Federer has been fined so let's draw a line under it.

Von, have you tried tennisworld yet, what do you think of it?

Native, I hope I've cleared up the confusion.

Carrie, I had stated many times that I do not believe in conspiracy theories. You and your co-hort were going on and on and on about how the car was meant for fed and all the TD plans went AWOL and how funny it was that Delpo got the car. I posted:
"Lexus was one of the sponsors of the USO and I don't know where people are getting that it was supposed to be ONLY for fed. I heard that they were gifting the car to the winner back in the beginning of August, long before the USO started. If you visited a Lexus dealer, it was all over the place, but it only had pics of Rafa, fed, Murray and Nole, not Delpo--lol."
fan4tennis , 9/16/09 3:36 AM

You and your cohort attacked me relentlessly from that point on. I see nothing in that post that is directed specifically to anyone! It was a general post about the car. I was told that, silly me, of course they had to put others pics on there so no one would become suspicious. I don't subscribe to paranoia or conspiracy theories. I simply have faith that Rafa has the will to win and the ability to fight and that he will always try his best!

As far as the cursing, I had made a general comment that many other players curse and we never hear about it. I said, very similar to Ricky's words, that it was only because it was fed that such an uproar was made. You had a meltdown asking if I was defaming Rafa by saying he cursed too. I said yes he has, but not loud enough to heard by all and was in Spanish. That was my crime. Even the members on vamosbrigade admitted it and had video and links.

You despise openly that some fed fans put fed on a pedastal and treat him as if he is perfect or a god. You are doing the same thing to Rafa.

Just because I said Rafa curses (whether mouthing it or not) is not "smearing Rafa." It isn't like I said he stole a car and punched someone. Quit making a mountain out of a molehill on this carrie!

Native, if you type in Delpo's name where it has player at the top of this site, you can bring up the match preview "Fed faces Delpo in final" and you can see where it all starts. Many were posting there during the match. It will give you a better idea of what is going on.

F4t I was addressing Native regarding comspiracy theories not you. I'd like to put this topic to be now please. Thanks.

Sorry, typo!

F4t I was addressing Native regarding comspiracy theories not you. I'd like to put this topic to BED now please. Thanks.

Carrie, then quit using my name constantly in your replies! I WILL defend myself!

carrie,

Thanks for clearing up all the confusion. I consider this issue resolved and settled as far as you and I are concerned. I didn't see the posts from fan4tennis, so I can't comment on that. I just make up my mind based on what I read. So far I haven't seen anything from fan4tennis to make me think that this person is anything other than a Rafa fan.

malty,

Thanks for the Pat Cash link. I am surprised that you didn't take issue with some of his comments about how Fed played in the final. I happen to think he was right in his observations.

The bottom line here is that Fed got fined. Maybe you think that was unfair. I also did point out earlier that it was, in fact, torres who posted the link showing Rafa swearing. I think we know that at some point many players will get upset about a call. They are human. I have my own opinions about who are the worst offenders, but I am not going to start another brouhaha by identifying them.

I think this issue has been discussed to death, so there really isn't any more I can say. If you feel that the fine was undeserved, well you are entitled to your opinion.

I just can't wait until Rafa starts playing in Beijing, so I can start posting some adoring prose about his tennis. Fed fans will have to wait a little longer for their guy to start playing again. But once both Rafa and Fed are in the game again together, then let's watch this place light up.

Let the games begin! (smile!)

Nativeny:

Please stick to prose, not poetry; some or hyperbole I can handle. LOL.

carrie: I tried to access tennisworld but only got a web page with a ton of links to advertisements. I couldn't find anything with respect to a blog. Thanks anyway, but I think I'll hang around here for a while as I see quite a few posters here that I like and my experience and interaction here has been pleasant, except for the two unpleasant ones I encountered when I initally began posting. That said, if you'll have me here, I'd like to stay for a while, as nearly everyone seems to be pleasant, and hopefully I can grow on you all, but with one condition, I don't want to grow and become a *green mold*, per malty. LOL..

von, if i may add:

also tried carrie's suggestion and all i got was a peter bodo page linked with tennis.com. unless you are a big fan of tennis.com, which i am not, it's a dead end. however, i think bleacher report does have lots of options as far as writers and articles. pretty balanced and a mature bunch....tho i don't i haven't posted there much; leans toward the aspiring journo, which i am not one...lol...

this site can be hostile for a federite but that is why i stay...gotta hold the fort and fight the good fight! you'll have the red carpet rolled out if your a nadal fan tho.

Zoey234: Thanks for your input on tennisworld. I'm a dud when it comes to websites, etc., and I thought it was down to my lack of computer savvy that caused the problem for me. I've only on two occasions visited tennis.com and that was due to an article being linked there. However, from what I've seen there, I don't think I'd feel comfortable posting on that site.

I'm not a fan of either Federer or Nadal, so I'm like odd man out here and on many other sites. It's one of the reasons I'm in between sites because the other site I post on is pro-Federer and I got killed for my opinions by some Fed fans. To be truthful, it seems to be the norm on every other site, where there's a large quantity of Fed fans, and which translates to a Roddick should NOT be posting anywhere. Anyway, my problem is that I do enjoy the sport and commenting on general topics helps me to stay in the loop, therefore, I've come to the conclusion, that I should just continue to post on the general topics, and leave the fans of the two top players, viz., Federer and Nadal, to duke it out between themselves. I'll read and enjoy the humor. I think this way, I'm enjoying the best of both worlds. How's that for a contented fan? LOL.

yeah, i am relatively new to writing comment on tennis. love to play tennis (not good) and started watching tennis when discovered federer...i could go on but will spare you....already written far more on federer here than i thought my brain was capable. but oddly was not compelled to write or make a comment until after ao09 and he lost....again. i was reading the commentary on the ao website and wondered what was up with all the fed-hate and a that's how the federite in me was born....lol... when i stumbled across this site i was looking for news on tennis at the time- indian wells- and bingo, if i didn't fall right into ground zero for anti-fans. at first i thought i could abstain but ....malteser was being attacked from all sides...and i could not let her take all the heat!!

sooo anyways, as far as being a roddick fan, i am one too but ...that is tough cos i love roger's tennis and always cheer for rf first. wimby final was really tough to take tho....a very big part of me wanted roddick to get the trophy! so, i can genuinely join in cheering for a-rod, just not my first pick.

you should be fine here. it's pretty dead calm right now without roger playing....most fedfans aren't big big overall tennis fans, it seems. i love the whole thing...not a depth of knowledge but learning, von.

zoey234: you make v. interesting point here. Without doubt Roger/Rafa rivalry has introduced millions and millions to the beautiful game. Wonder if they'll stay fans when these gr8 champs are no longer around. As for me, if I tell you three of my gr8est faves ever, are Nastase, Paoline and Johnny Mac, then you'll know how long I've been a teenis fan!!! And I'll still be, long after Andy M has retired and bcome a "National Treasure" like Ginny Wade! Hmmm, long wait 4 that, I know...

native....morning......just to clear up a point you made about me earlier....you'll know there are something like 266 plus posts on this thread...and i have posted that federer did deserve to be fined.....obviously you didnt read that post.....so i have just repeated it here...I put Pat Cash's post here.......... (courtesy of link from niloofar)....because he believed it had been over played and over egged....ridiculous to think that federer is........ any less of a man in terms of his fans or the tennis world....he was fined...rightly...move on..(generically speaking)...

fft....it is good to see you back...really...i dont think you need to address carrie anymore in terms of asking her not to mention your name....she continually does that....it is officially boring.....leave her....let her get on with whatever witchhunt she has against you for you saying a few positive things about federer.....the federer fans know very well....loud and bloody....trumpet...clear....that rafa is your number 1.....so just be yourself and dont let her get to you anymore....you just empower her otherwise.....why do that?.....you are bigger and better...and if i might comment...much more rounded.....(*claps wildly for fft*).

zoey....great to see you again.....like you....its so empty without federer playing......what can we do in the meantime? just cyber converse and defend fft....i really feel the woman needs a break......

talking abt the argument way above...abt FRIENDLINESS..torres and ricky debate....well TORRES ricky is a journalist!! we are ordinary fans who just read and watch!! we dont know the inside stories better than these people!! ricky is spot on....ASK ANY JOURNALIST IN THE WORLD he is gona say rafa is friendlier!!! i remember a journalist from bleacherreport saying that marat safin and rafa are among the friendlisest guys when is cums to media and press..haas and clement being the rude ones..lol! just stop it man...rafa is mtchless when it comes to controlling temper and dealing wid adversities..u talk atb roger??!! how many adversaties ahs he faced and how many has he handled very well??? hardly any!! ur character is tesed when u face adversaties not when u keep on winning winning..then ofcourse u keep on smiling...showing frndly attitude......roiger faced a bad rough patch in 08 (march) breaks a racket against djo! 05 miami destroys a raket due to the utter frustration of not being able to control points against rafa as he normally does.... 09 US OPEN FINAL is the latest example!!! 07 wimb hawk eye dispute is another!! he kepr muttering for 5 mins after a challenge!! NAADL despitei facing soooo many adversaties in the form of severe injuries for e.g is always sooo calm !!!thats what i call a role model!! VAMOS RAFA!!!!

zoey234: I'm glad that you like Roddick also. Of course Federer will and should be your No. 1 guy, and I'm the same way when it comes to Roddick. I like other players, but when Roddick is playing against them, I'm all for Roddick. LOL.

You're correct, not much is going on in the tennis world right now for Fed fans. He'll be back in 5 weeks for the Paris Masters and the YEC. Until then, I guess you can support Roddick at Beijing. There's a tough field there, but I'm hoping that Roddick will go deep and/or win the title. I guess, I'll just have to keep on hoping that my wishes will come true. BTW, I don't think any of us is an expert on tennis and, I'm also learning.

Von,

I will definitely have to control myself once I get started about Rafa. I will keep in mind that this is not Rafa's official forum or even a Rafa fan site. I can get carried away with Rafa's play. It's been a long time since I had a special favorite in men's tennis. Lendl was my previous favorite, which should give you a hint as to how long I have been watching this sport. I did like Agassi, but wouldn't consider him a true favorite. There haven't been many, although there are quite a few that I do admire and respect. Borg was an all time favorite, but I was heartbroken when he walked away at the young age of 26. It's interesting that I tend to like the baseline players, rather than the serve and volley guys. I don't know why, it's just who I am and the type of game I love.

I grew up idolizing Billie Jean King and remember the great Rod Laver, Roy Emerson, Pancho Gonzales and many others from the old days. I truly am a student of the game of tennis. I used to play, not well at all, but a terrible car accident when I was just 20 ended all that. I decided to content myself with studying the game and learning as much as I possibly could about it.

I left tennis for a few years. The lack of competition made it boring. I know Fed fans loved seeing him win all those grand slams in relatively easy fashion, but it did not make for compelling viewing as far as I was concerned. It was Rafa who brought me back to the game I love. Once I saw him for the first time, at the 2007 Wimbledon, I knew he was special. It's a feeling that I don't get very often. He reminded me of Borg, even though physically these two could not be more different. It's hard to describe, but maybe it was Rafa's passion, fire and intensity. Most of all, it was that incredibly fierce will to win that captured my imagination. I knew he had greatness in him.

That's why I love the rivalry between Rafa and Fed. It's what makes for great tennis. I think they bring out the very best in each other on the court. They are so different in many ways and that only makes them even more exciting to watch. But I am aware that there are other great players in the game. I can appreciate Djoko, Murray, Roddick and Del Potro. I enjoy seeing the high quality of men's tennis these days. I have no problem talking about any of the other great players, but for me Rafa will always have my heart.

I am glad to see that you have stayed here and feel comfortable. I think we can both look forward to some really interesting and exciting discussions about ALL of the very best men's tennis players. We have a lot to look forward to in the coming months.

hey deuce, thanks for posting to me! sorry i got so frustrated with the british press during wimby...you know i think of them as my mothership of tennis news and count on your journos to make me laugh!! (most of the time) i also understand how deserving you are of a wimby champ....and ....hope muzz gets his chance, really i do. but it's not going to be easy and i am not convinced that all the media blitz helps...but....what do i know ? do you really think the muzza has it to be your national treasure? sometimes i do and sometimes i don't....

tho federer and my dad ( a huge "nasty" nastase fan btw ) are responsible for my tennis obsession, i already know, the way i follow the game i am a crazy fan of the sport; even the wta is starting to interest me, tho i have not been a fan until recently. i like henin's game; glad she is returning. anyway, my internet connection is not working today...lata deuce, malt, von...oh yeah von....i will be cheering for roddick for sure to win....tho his record against rafa ? is disturbing....crikey!

zoey234: Hi! hope your computer has stopped playing up. wonderful when they work but.....Hate British press, except Guardian, and feel they r not helping Andy at all, too much pressure and he's only 22! Agree it's gonna be very hard for him but looking at men's game at the mo. he, Rafa, Djko and Delpotro are all in early twenties, all rest are middle or late and most are still improving their games, so feel there's is plenty of time. Am much more worried about wrist injury, recurring unfortunately. No, he'll never be "national treasure" too laconic, not enough glitz!
WTA? Has been horibly uncompetitive hasn't it? Hope Henin, Clejsters and some of the new kids will bring some ooomph!

Von, zoey,

This is the link I use for tennisworld, then click on 'Message Board' and you should be able to register. There is a fair mix of Rafa and Fed fans and other players and a wide range of subjects including extensive WTA. There are times when they have info on things that have not hit TT. Most of the posters are Americans, so you should find access to the site very easy.

http://tennisworld.typepad.com/thewrap/2009_entries/

Fed Vs Rafa - Vampire Vs Werewolf

vamosrafa...i know this was directed at torres...but how you can say that federer isnt friendly is complete BS....the guy spends AT LEAST 45 minutes with the media....and spends hours with his fans...so how dare you say he isnt friendly.....utter...complete.....rubbish.....

Haha malty, apparently vamosrafa didnt watch the Dubai 07 vid to know that Rafa complains too. In fact, human being complains.

I dunno why the media interviews Fed more than Rafa if Rafa is friendlier. Makes perfect sense, LOL. Interview the guy who is less friendlier... LOL...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w541Y2knqk8

this is not friendly?

nothing changes does it torres........?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgh3e1_n-pQ&feature=related

Just watched the highlights of Novak Vs Fed in SF USO. I think Fed used up all his magic points here LOL..

Still full credit to Delpo but Fed did look a lil bit flat in the final.

Rafa and Ivanovic have been voted the most media friendly, by the media:

http://www.nadalnews.com/2009/09/03/itwa-ambassador/

Rafa and Ana have been voted ?Ambassadors of the Year? by the International Tennis Writers Association.

Rafael Nadal of Spain and Ana Ivanovic of Serbia have been voted Ambassadors of the Year for the 2008 tennis season by the ITWA membership, an honor designed to recognize consistent openness and cooperation with the world media. The two players will receive solid-silver hallmarked letter openers, engraved with their name and ?ITWA Ambassador 2008.?

ITWA past president Neil Harman said: ?We understand that the players can?t grant every interview request, but Ana and Rafa have been exemplary in their professional dealings with the media. Rafa is always scrupulously polite, while Ana always seems to have a smile on her face, even when talking to the media after a defeat. They are great role models for their fellow players, and we hope their engraved letter-openers can find a small but proud place in their trophy cabinets.?


VAMOS RAFA!

LOL... old articles again, carrie....

How bout Fed's 5 Prix Orange.. LOL

malteser..i think you are having prblems reading english..so tell me in what language shud i write so thats its wasy for u to understand...how dare you claim that i said FEDERER isnt FRIEDNLY!!!????? were you conscious while reading??? i just said RAFA IS FRIENDLIER with the media..get it?? friendlier!!! so does that mean roger isnt friendly?????? i think NOOO!!! and as evidence suggests (article by my fellow carrie)...rafa is very friendly ..... and talking abt the dubai issue..torres fo watch it again...its the only time tho that rafa lost some temper may b...STILL he just went to the umpire..complained and then turned away...just ringed his anger around himself onyl! not like SOME people who keep on babbling for 5 minuts with the umpire..and get fined then...lollz :D

malteser..i think you are having prblems reading english..so tell me in what language shud i write so thats its wasy for u to understand...how dare you claim that i said FEDERER isnt FRIEDNLY!!!????? were you conscious while reading??? i just said RAFA IS FRIENDLIER with the media..get it?? friendlier!!! so does that mean roger isnt friendly?????? i think NOOO!!! and as evidence suggests (article by my fellow carrie)...rafa is very friendly ..... and talking abt the dubai issue..torres fo watch it again...its the only time tho that rafa lost some temper may b...STILL he just went to the umpire..complained and then turned away...just ringed his anger around himself onyl! not like SOME people who keep on babbling for 5 minuts with the umpire..and get fined then...lollz :D

torres, what's old about being the reigning ITWA Ambassador?

got fined but still is the sportman of the year for 5 times ...lol

Fed's the best ever...

becoz he has been winning so much...infact winning for 5 years indeed!! so when u are winning winning winning..ofcourse u will ben seen smiling..happy...cool tempred..so on....adversity provides the REAL test!! so when comparing look for adversity periods....roger is great..bt he hasnt faced many adversaties in his career thats becoz he is so good at managing and has a very good playing style+is very lucky....bt unfortunately sumtime she hasnot been able to handle adversaties well. thats the pnt here!!

vamosrafa...i can read...so you dont need to post me twice....how about YOU reading..... HOW MANY..... posts YOU post....buddy...so yeah...you support rafa....good for you.....i dont need to say bad things about rafa to get my point across....good for him that a certain paper has voted him the friendliest...its a matter of objectivity...not subjectiveness..........there are many media sources out there that vote federer....on a frequent basis.....the friendliest, most approachable player.... as to his time spent with media/fans, etc....dont let this incident which is regarded by many as a completely understandable reaction from federer...the fact that YOU (singular) have only seen rafa ONCE lose his temper means NOTHING to me.....EVERY tennis player loses their temper at some time or other.....federer has been incredibly composed, charming, together on MOST occasions....he is allowed to have a lapse because he has been sooooo composed for sooooo long......so yeah..get your facts right....and dont start with the r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s counterargument that federer hasnt had any adversaries over the years....big...fat...lie....i'm not getting into a pathetically supported round of ill fated, non-factual dross with someone who clearly........ dislikes federer and to describe his tennis as a 'good' playing style...my god....you ask me whether i can read?...go check out your tennis facts buddy.....and brush up on your factual knowledge about federer....it will blow your mind....if you dare.....hated by the jealous and uneducated , loved by millions....feared by ALL......

and as for carrie's comments? Your point vamosrafa? Am i supposed to be impressed? I dont think so....

federer is the best.....

ITWA stands for International Tennis Writer's Association, it's not just one paper, it's the whole lot of them who voted for Rafa and Ana as the ambassadors of tennis.

I see we are having the regular dustup here one more time. The bottom line is that Rafa and Fed fans will NEVER agree about who is the better sportsman or who is friendlier. If people want to go over the same old ground, that's fine with me. But it seems like a terrible waste of energy.

My only contribution to this discussion is that the video of Rafa from 2007 has been shown and it's over and done. That was more than two years ago, so if torres has to keep bringing it up to make his point then his argument is weak.

I think it's fine for carrie to bring up Rafa's recent accolades for sportsmanship, especially since Fed fans want to keep bringing up old stuff about Rafa to try to counter that point of view. Sorry, Fed fans, you can't have it both way. If it's old news for carrie to point out Rafa's awards, then it's old news for you guys to point out Fed's awards.

Why don't we just agree that these two are really great sportsmen and leave it at that? Does there always have to be a winner? If so, then this discussion will never be resolved.

malty, babe! good to read you here today! i was going to post to vamosrafa but decided to wait and see what you'd have to say...:-)

vamosrafa-

of course i like your passion for rafa and completely understand that part but....as far as the federer not facing adversity?......that is just plain blind, man. fed has made winning look easy from 2004-2007, however, those wins and i have watched them were managed the hard way so please, unless you have examined what it took to remain at #1 for all that time, you would find that he HAS played through injuries and come close to losing, had to fight all the way. even in winning there is PLENTY of difficulty.

but prior to winning, may i remind you that federer lost his coach to a car accident in ( 2002 ) and he took the loss VERY hard. but he faced it and went on to start a winning streak in 2003. he cried the first wimby in 2003 and mentioned his coach.

then, in 2008 he played thru the mono....under heavy criticism for losing ao 08 and many tournies that season....his choice to do that but the media was writing him off as 'done'. SPESH after fo08 and wimby 08!!! i remember very well!! he lost in the singles in beijing olympics and thereafter lost #1 to rafa......so don't tell me he doesn't have or has not fought back.....the chips were down on him prior to us open 08!! he came back after back injury and more losses in fall 2008 and winter 2009!!

Federer came back and won madrid, roland garros and wimby.....no he is injured again.......but he does not advertise his injuries...as his fan i know he will come back and fight another day but it's ALWAYS been difficult, challenging and nothing short of incredible what he has achieved .......never easy, vamosrafa, NEVER easy.....ask roddick or hewitt or rafa, who admires roger, they know!!!

malteser..well..mate u are trying to prove urself a pathetic fan of a great champion actually..isnt it??? I DONT and I DONT..simple is that...never demean roger..i dont hate him..i dont say bad things abt him..i am nt like MANY nadal fans..i love my rafa..bt i have utter rspect for rafa!! post any evidence that suggests i am anti roger! u wont find ny becoz there isnt present any!!! saying someone is friendlier dooesnt mean the other one is being debased here!!! if i say federer is better at tennis than murray ..does that mean i am saying bad things abt murray???NO!! stop RELATIVE terms..get the term mate?? in comparison to rafa roger federer hasnt faced that many despite such a long career....so that ws my point... stop being emotional and treating each rafa fan like all others..i am difrent.....no offence..just making my point.cheers :)..i also respect ur opinions..u write well :D

ZOEY234..dude....playing with injuries is the most frustarting thing...the bigget adversity !!! becoz u know u can play well but the injury isnt allowing u to do so.....wht do u mena roger doesnr advertise injuries??? u dnt know abt mono???u dnt know abt back prblms?? its just that rafa is asked again and again again abt injuries...and poor rafa often ignores the qstions despite carrying injuries (US open 09 abdominal strain) it ws harsh but he refused to update it during the championships.and roger himself has been claiming he HAS BEEN VERY LUCKKKYY!!! dont u believe him??? other factors are also involved and he admits frankly.suffering injuries ..okay he suffered mono druing an slam and lost....lukily his back injury didnt affect him at RG and wimb that year!! it triggerd during madrid i think! so i wish nadal cudnve played RG and wimb fine and then tendinitis..but thats how it was..its sports! :D

vamosrafa .....roger HAS faced every bit and more adversity in his career! it's really blind for people who think he has had it easy......my above post is my counter to your claim that roger has had it EASY... you have a right to your opinion and i have a right to respond......never thought you were an anti-fan and still don't.......but just cos fed makes winning and playing at such a high level look easy.....it is not and his play has taken it's toll on his body as it does to anyone.....wake up mate!! watch the wimby final against roddick.....that took guts!! iron will!! he's my hero, dude!

cheers

look..u are responding to sumthng which i am nt discussing...i am not discussing the guys MENTAL fortitude..i fully agree.. he has got nerves of steel!!! wimb 09 final...oz open 08 3rd rnd against tip...against rafa at wimb 07!! many many xamples...rock solid mentally....Look at the blog! its abt a fine that incurred...due to some temperament flares...and i statrd when friendliness ws being hilited.....i just said rafa is the best when it comes to controlling temper and is friendlier..i ws not talking generally abt roger..it ws on relative terms! man just look at nadal....fans ask him have u ever broken a raket ??EVER?? even when u were a junior..he says "NO no no ..never" "i have alot of respect for my equipment".."its not the fault of the racket so why break it"!!!! so i think its not ur fault may b as u took ADVERSITIES in a broader sense....cheers :D

@Nativenewyorker , ...i really like you r approach..m really content with it ..but u know what there are ppl who are attention seekrs and just trigger of and force these issues all the time! m bold enuf to point out an e.g ...recently an article on rafa's beijing comeback was posted and some pathetic fan writes "boring rafa..." so what was that all abt?? he does it again and again resulting in a war b/w rafa-roger fans so u have culprits :p

vamosrafa,

I understand your frustration, but I have decided to pick and choose my fights. I came to this site and let myself get drawn into all of the controversy and arguing. I got angrier and angrier, until someone told me that they really enjoyed my posts about Rafa and not the attacking ones. So I have tried to tone it down a bit.

I am fully aware of the silly comments that are appearing on Rafa topic threads here. If I tried to respond to every single one of them, then I would be spending valuable energy. Rafa fans know who he is, Rafa knows who he is, so in many cases I am just going to ignore the insulting comments. Nobody can take anything away from Rafa just by mere words. It's worth remembering.

But I do reserve the right to go after someone when I feel that they have crossed a line with Rafa. When I see anything that I feel is inappropriate, then I will have no problem addressing it, of that you can be sure.

'I would be spending valuable energy'

Your energy is not as valuable as u think LOL...

'But I do reserve the right to go after someone'

Everytime you go after someone, you end up not responding after running out of ideas.

torres...not running out of ideas..actually this is your trait ;p u are the best at posting non sense till the very end ..u just want to end the discussion with ur own post no matter how much crap u post..lollz ;) history says it ;p

torres, when you point your finger at someone, remember that there are three more pointing back at you. You are so sad.

vamosrafa@ mr.repeat-the-same-point-1000000-times and carrie @ms.hyper-sensitive-Rafan, when I point to someone i point with 5 fingers... LOL HAHAHA

torres, you point with five fingers? That explains a lot!

torres,

I realize that you like to stir the pot, but accusing me of running out of ideas isn't a smart move. Do you really want to go at it again with me? It sounds like you are trying to start another argument.

I realized you must be frustrated and bored with Fed no playing, but don't take it out on the rest of us. You were mildly amusing for a while, now you are sounding old already. You need to think up some new ones.

Just keep in mind that I am the one who decided to walk away from the argument with you. You never responded honestly to my points and weren't willing to engage in a real discussion. Just throwing around cute phrases doesn't take a lot of thought. But if you want to debate a point of view, then that actually takes some intelligence.

Vamosrafa....firstly.....dont call me a pathetic fan...by choosing this ridiculous description of me, you show your ignorance.....and by saying later....you like my posts...show you dont really know how you are feeling/what you are saying....you say 'no offence' and then call me pathetic? yeah? how does that one count?

native....whilst i welcome your very fine eloquent posts...torres is a fighter here and with good cause/reason (most of the time).....i will support his analysis of federer every time....you have not seen the wonderful posts that torres has posted in terms of both rafa and roger (before you came)...in my view...he is a brilliant federer fan.....he will be honest i feel with you, if you ask him a direct question.....and he is quite analytical as well, puts a lot of thoughts into his posts....yes...he gets purile sometimes when others do....so it is tit for tat.....it isnt always torres' fault...plus...we get back to this same old argument.....torres stirs the pot, only when people give him the wooden spoon and the cauldron....so go easy mate..when he writes one liners.....that is when you dont see the best of torres...but there are others who demean themselves to this level......and it is not just him....

zoey.....babe....you are writing like me now! I read your post...saw the ellipsis...and thought..that's me! It's catchy, hey?! I hope you are well...havent seen sky here for a while...so guess he must be busy....we need to save all of our positive energy for the forthcoming events....mostly the AO....so feel a bit jaded in terms of vamosrafa's ridiculous analysis of both me...and of federer...at times....not worth the energy.....

"...torres stirs the pot, only when people give him the wooden spoon and the cauldron....so go easy mate..when he writes one liners.....that is when you dont see the best of torres...but there are others who demean themselves to this level......and it is not just him...." - malteser , 10/7/09 3:54 PM

hahaha. torres' best is when he's boasting about his master's degree. pathetic!!!

malt, i use ellipses when excited and sentences start running on in a big way.

i am thoroughly annoyed with vamosrafa's posts here. totally find communicating to someone who knows nothing about RF pointless and agree about torres...."stirs the pot, only when people give him the spoon and the cauldron..."

as long as there are the vamosrafa's here, phoenix's and homos.....thank god for torres!! and you malt, and fedexfan and niloofar!! necessary balance, my friend! mwah!!

malteser...man u are constantly trying to act oversmart...thats it...ok if i said i like ut posts..that doesnt mean I AGREE WITH U 100%.we all write pathetic things at times!! we make mistakes!!! u were writing at suhc an agressive style to me so u xpect polite replies???u have been uttering things widout any proof so yea thats pathetic!! first u claim that i said roger isnt friendly,,then u say i hat..what BS is this?? how on earth do u deduce such things on ur own?? so stop being innocent...either dont write things like that...or when u do write them...develpo the patience to listen to others.....and REMEMBER..it ws YOU who first called my post BS and ridiculous....u are always welcum to argue no matter how many times...bt be careful....yes when i write NO OFFNCE>.i mean iT!!!

and zoey234...well sorry for annoying you....i dont post crap after crap...was just sum retaliation....lol...when u say i dont know anythng abt RF!! hahahaha...u cant imagine how much knowledge i have abt that guy..i mean it....i am a fanatic rafa fan but i DONT MISS A SINGLE RF MATCH!!! i dont have time to first defend rafa and then write abt roger! so i have to write abt rafa becoz i support him! i said it beforehand...u misinterpreted my post may b....'adversaty' was referring to controlling temper and friendliness ONLY!! and not in general terms but with rafa!!
and talking abt torres stiring the pot....well what the hell is the justification when torres writes crap on an article that is not even related to RF at all and no one even says anythng abt RF..."rafa is boring.." such as that....so wht do u xpect then?? we respect torres for this??lol

as long as there are the demented malties and torres' and their pompom girl zoey.....thank god for rafa fans!!!

danny...you never cease to amaze me with your two liners and crass comments about federer fans.....if anyone is demented it's you...so stop pointing the finger and get back to discussing tennis...or have you forgotten what that's like?

....**malteser...man u are constantly trying to act oversmart...thats it...ok if i said i like ut posts..that doesnt mean I AGREE WITH U 100%.we all write pathetic things at times!! ***
vamos..me? oversmart? surely not?.....you forget...you call a true federer fan...pathetic? and think that is acceptable?...dont try to be the innocent, ra..ra...clean as a whistle rafa fan..you are far from it....and stop having a bash at torres carrie...you are far, far worse....that is all you do is have a go at people when they dont agree with you...not only that...you bully fft away from this forum when she said a few positives about federer...and then YOU....yes.....YOU....go post a fed blog about fed...'pretending to care'...YOU are far worse....

fft...come back....get your act together and post like you always used to.....carrie is just becoming far too annoying.....(you used to have that accolade honey...(*wink*) why let her steal your thunder?

torres...dont rise to the bait....

well..when u label a TRUE rafa fan's post as BBULLSHIT and ridiculous then what the hell do you xpect MR INNOCENT,,,u think thats accepable????? haha....u act as if u are an angel..perfect !! wow....now u are just writing english phrases..not writing abt tennis!!! becoz u know u badly misinterpreted my initial post and thngs went
wrong so stop hiding ur ignorance and misinterpretation abt that post....i dont wana takke this to more fiery levels! may b u want to do so! not sure........
u post shit like this and then aht do u expect mr pretender !!!

"i'm not getting into a pathetically supported round of ill fated, non-factual dross with someone who clearly........ dislikes federer...."
now who startd using crap language!! YOU ..yes YOU!! who made bogus claims( i really dislike fed) ..YOU!!! my posts never never portray any hatred towards roger..they only portray sheer love n suport for RAFAAA!!!! VAMOSS RAAFFAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

malty,

I think you and I get each other and communicate pretty well. I appreciate your defense of torres, but to pretend that torres doesn't instigate is being a bit disingenuous. If torres goes on Rafa articles and starts trashing Rafa, you know he is going to get the Rafa fans riled up and with good reason. I do see that some are guilty of going after torres out of the blue, but all too often torres seems to like stirring that pot.

You are going to defend Fed right to the ground, no matter what. So are Rafa fans going to do the same for him. What is with this nonsense about Rafa being boring? I am really trying not to get into it with torres again. But when he says that my energy isn't valuable, after I tell him that I don't want to waste my valuable energy arguing the same thing over and over, what would you have me do? Just laugh it off?

There is a fine line between being sarcastic and using irony and then just getting mean. Sometimes I think torres crosses that line. I have no wish to go to war with Fed fans. I think I've made myself clear on that point. That's my reason for being here. I try to stay out of the nastier battles. But I do reserve the right to defend Rafa if I feel he is being trashed. That's what I told torres. You know perfectly well that if someone said Fed was boring or that it's about time he was afraid, you would be all over them. So just give me the same consideration.

I have read some of torres's posts in which there is a lot of thought and knowledge. But too many times they are all about making fun of someone or getting the last work. But I will take what you said to heart and take a while to ponder it. (smile)

Malty, thanks for backing me up, honey. But for me, you are the best Fed Fan here. You are the 'federer' of the Fed fans. I am only second best which means i am the 'nadal' of the fed fans.

NNY, the thing about your arguments is that you always go way off-topic. I talk about A and then you ask me about B. I am the one who talks about A 1st so why do I have to answer B topic.
But you are right, I am bored that Fed's not playing...

torres....i dont particularly want to get into any fights that you have going on with native...in all honesty....because when i rejoined....i saw native's post and thought what a breath of fresh air it was to read posts from someone (long though they may be)....were both interesting.....and balanced to read.....he/she writes in a similar way to von.....and at first...i thought they were the same person....i dont really care if they are...they are similar in writing style and enjoyable to read.....

when the slams get going...you are always someone who i look out for.....because when you are not goaded by others....you are the b-e-s-t defender of federer here in my view.....so for me, you are the b-e-s-t-f-e-d-f-a-n here....we are all in a 'group' of supporters...you, me, zoey, sky, maxi, fedex, rafta...niloofar, janhavi and a few of the others who dont post as regularly.....so we are all equal in my eyes as well.....i think sometimes....you are goaded moreso by carrie....because she likes to defend rafa...but she goes w-a-y-o-v-e-r top....but she also has lost a lot of respect from me....for what she has done to fft....and you will remember that fft and me...did not get on....(sort of)...because we were always so feisty and boisterous...along with others.....but the woman has softened since becoming a grandmother...you can see it in her writing...it oozes through her words.....so i kind of miss her being here so often.....
so....just keep tight....and dont change (so much)....just tone it down here and there....the worst thing would be to get kicked off for 6 weeks...especially when a lot of the time.....you have so many positive things to say....so whilst native is new (ish) here....most of the time....i feel they hold back what they really want to say...because of the trouble they experienced on another forum....
we all get heated at times.....but wouldnt want the administrator to come in between you and homos? again and for you to go....you have masses of analytical knowledge on federer....the best in my view...and can always hit back with the best of them...sometimes i think you are treated unfairly....especially by carrie....but she gets worse every day...when i spend time reading what she has to say....so just choose your battles wisely.....i know you will.......

native...you and i are fine....and some fine day...could even meet over a greek coffee...make it a double for me.....a real shot in the backside on a cold morning like it is here in UK......i dont expect you to agree/even like things i say.....but you have to admit....it takes two to start an argument...and whilst you are very level-headed and a cool customer to me....this cannot be said for carrie....she is the worst of the rafa fans....and yet has the audacity to warn people away from torres.....that is churlish and devious behaviour...... of the highest order.....people can make up their own minds.....but give a fairer picture.....please?

native...i have never called rafa 'boring'...i think that you must have meant someone else....
vamosrafa....you started this...not me....by calling me pathetic...and that federer was a 'good' player.....what if i called you pathetic and said rafa was a 'good' player....roger is so much more than that.....as native said earlier...'i reserve the right to defend federer or any of the fans'...but if you have an argument with torres...then keep me out of it...we are all independent thinkers on this forum....before this episode with you and me...you had a ding dong with zoey...so perhaps look at your own character traits before analysing others...you said some negative things about federer....which required a counterargument.... from both me and zoey...as you would have done if we had said those things about rafa...(which we haven't and didn't).....may be one day, we'll get back on track....and hopefully that wont be too far away.....

vamosrafa...i know this was directed at torres...but how you can say that federer isnt friendly is complete BS....the guy spends AT LEAST 45 minutes with the media....and spends hours with his fans...so how dare you say he isnt friendly.....utter...complete.....rubbish.....
malteser , 10/5/09 10:14 AM


in repsonse to a post by me ..which wasnt directed at you! plus...it had NUTHNIGN THAT SAID RF isnt frinedly!! it just said rafa is frindLIER !!! get that??? saying saying is more friendly mean s RF is not friendly?? huhhh!! kindly increase ur interpretation skills! u call my post rubbish..bullshit and all that...and claim smthng which i didnt even say!! and then you say i srated al this..helllooo????! and where the hell did i demean roger federer?? post eveidene here ..rite here rite now!!! I DONT say bad thngs abt him!! no way!! i just dnt do that...post evidence if u can! u wont find any!

vamosrafa you know me well enough now to....understand....that i do a lot of research as part of what i do...as a result of that....you know that...as a researcher...i read between the lines...i have said many times....that doesnt mean anything in terms of me thinking that...... i am 'better'...than anyone else...that is just rubbish.....so dont call me 'oversmart'....with this in mind....it is easy to pick up on what someone might be trying to say/explain even if they dont actually say specifics...when certain words are used...(below....) this is part of what you did say....

'...so when comparing look for adversity periods....roger is great..bt he hasnt faced many adversaties in his career thats becoz he is so good at managing and has a very good playing style+is very lucky....
vamosrafa , 10/5/09 3:59 PM

how can you say roger is a 'good' player and he is 'lucky'.....and 'hasnt had many adversaries.'....just accept he that he has been at that top of his game for so long....and has been unreachable for a large part of this time.....because he has been t-o-o-a-m-a-z-i-n-g-l-y-b-r-i-l-l-i-a-n-t.......it's words like this....simple...'non' words...(good, lucky, no adversaries)...that make federer fans....(myself and zoey who has responded to you separately above)....scream with disbelief at the fact that even if you dont like federer the person...he is a great...great....unbelieveable player....we love him vamos....love him....support him....admire him......he is articulate....eloquent...magical....magnificent....unbelievably talented..and extremely friendly.....please dont say that by posting rafa is the friendliest...that you were not having a bit of a dig at federer....you were....as otherwise...why say it? and vamos...believe this....even though you directed a comment at torres....b-o-t-h ZOEY AND I responded to you...and we both agreed that we are very irritated by you right now....with good reason...you dont describe the greatest player...as 'good' or 'very good'...and 'lucky'...and...by implication....that he isn't friendly....that is just rubbish.....so it depends on what you mean by 'bad'....i

is 'ignorant' of his talents...... a better way to describe what you said?....am not sure....i don't think we are speaking the same language....in lots of ways...it still doesnt justify you calling me pathetic....that comment came from you....not the way to be....

you said the following:.....
I DONT say bad thngs abt him!! no way!! i just dnt do that...post evidence if u can! u wont find any
vamosrafa , 10/8/09 11:47 AM

depends what you mean by that....if two people commented on your post...then may be it is worse than what you think vamos.....that's how it came across to us....and i think we are justified in our comments.....

I had another late night with Rafa, later than I thought it would be, so I am dead tired. But I did want to just clarify a few things. First, Von and I are not the same person. We had a connection on tennis-x, most likely because we think alike. Although we have different favorites, we were able to find common ground. Also, I am a woman. I just wanted to make that clear.

malty,

I never accused you of saying that Rafa is boring. Maybe I didn't make that clear. I said it was torres who kept going on topic threads about Rafa and saying that Rafa was boring. I have tried to meet the Fed fans here halfway. I also have tried to find common ground. I made a point of saying that I will not get involved with nonsensical so-called Fed conspiracies. I simply refuse to go there. I also said that I accept Fed's announcement that he needs some time to rest and recuperate, at face value. I don't hate Fed. I love Rafa. My goal here is not to pick fights with Fed fans. I am sure we will have plenty of heated discussions once Fed is back in the mix. But that's what this forum is all about.

Regarding your offer of meeting over a Greek coffee, that sounds delightful. I have come to admire and respect you for your passionate defense of Fed. I am the same way with Rafa. We just happen to love two different tennis players. But I know where you're coming from and like reading your posts. They are always lively and interesting.

torres,

I don't know what you mean when you say that I go off topic. If you could clarify your point with a specific example, then maybe it will give me a chance to think it over and decide if I think your comment is valid. I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. I keep an open mind. I did not come here merely to pick fights. They will happen in the heat of the moment when we are defending our respective favorites. That's entirely normal. But it doesn't have to get personal.

Don't worry, Fed will be back before you know it. Then watch the fireworks start here, especially if he and Rafa end up playing each other.

Nativeny: Thanks for claifying to malty that we are two different individuals.

I watched Nadal's match and I don't know, but to me, there's something still wrong with him. His movement is not the same as prior to the FO and he seems to have lost his zest and sparkle. I'm wondering if his stomach problem is acting up but he's keeping it quiet. Whatever it is, I'm not liking what I'm seeing. I had him as my second fave after Roddick, and I want him to win the title, but it's a tough road for him, especially if he's not feeling 100 percent right. hopefully, he'll up his level and things will fall into place.

What is your opinion of the match?

Von,

I am so tired right now I just hope I can write. I have been all over the place with my feelings about Rafa. I was beyond upset when he had two chance to serve for the match and couldn't get it done. I just put my head in my hands and groaned. When Rafa lost the second set, that was it for me. I tried to go to bed. But I was tossing and turning and just could not get the match out of my mind. This you will find kind of unbelievable, but I got up and went back to my computer and as soon as I got the live stream, that's when Rafa broke Blake in the third set. Then I watched with clenched teeth as he managed to serve it out for the win. After that I was finally able to get some sleep. Unfortunately for me, I had an appointment and couldn't sleep in, so I am really feeling it now. I am also fighting off some kind of bug or cold. I thought it was allergies, but whatever it is I just don't feel very good. No staying up late for me tonight. I think Rafa's quarterfinal match with Safin will be on at 4:00 am pst, so that will be impossible.

Anyway, I should really try to answer your question. First, I remind myself that Rafa just came back from the abdominal injury. This is the first time he is serving. He may feel a little tentative when coming back after another injury. I think that's normal. I don't think he is quite as fast as he was before the injury, maybe still a step or two slower. But I was watching his movement and I can't see anything with the knees. He was sliding and splaying his legs and it didn't seem to bother him. I noticed that his ball toss for his serve is back up higher where it should be. He had to lower it considerably in the US Open, because of the abdominal tear. He seems to be serving quite well. He is hitting more winners off his forehand and that's nice to see.

I think Rafa's problem now is mental. He loses his concentration and focus. You never see Rafa double fault twice in a game when he is serving for the match. That made me crazy! But the fact that he came back strong in the third set and played aggressive was a good thing. I don't know how he does it. The guy has no quit in him. I didn't expect him to be in great form and didn't think the wins would come easy. But let's give credit to Blake who played some outstanding tennis. I forgot just how good he can be, especially his return of serve. I don't think it was that Rafa was bad, but Blake was really on fire at points in the match. He just couldn't sustain it. When he double faulted to give Rafa the break and put him up 5-3 in the third set, I knew he just lost his focus again. Blake can be up and down in matches and gets in his own head too much. But I have to give him credit for taking advantage of Rafa's mistakes in the second set.

What you were seeing is Rafa not in peak form. He isn't at the level that he was earlier in the year. But I am seeing flashes of it and little by little, his game is coming together. I think this match will give him a lot of confidence moving forward.

To sum it up, you may have a point about his movement, but I don't think it has anything to do with a physical problem. I just think he's not sprinting around the court like a panther yet. I think his movement is getting better and better. I also think that what you sense is a lingering lack of confidence in his game. Tennis is so much a mental process.

I don't know how Rafa is going to do here. I just know it won't be easy. In a sense, I like the fact that he's having tough matches and being tested. It's hard on my nerves, but I think this is what he needs to get back to his best. You don't learn a lot from the easy wins, but the ones you have to dig down deep to gut out, those are the ones that can bring out your very best.

I haven't seen much of Safin, so I have no idea what to expect. I was sure it would be Gonzales. I don't want to look ahead, but I can't pretend that I know Cilic and Davydenko will be playing to get into the semis against Rafa, if he beats Safin. Rafa doesn't appear to have a great record against Davydenko who is supposed to be playing well. But I also think Cilic has the game to give Rafa trouble. Let's face it, there are no easy roads to a win. I will just have to hang in there and take it one match at a time.

I am rambling and should stop. I think it's funny that people thought you and I were the same person. I guess that's why we enjoy chatting with each other.

Nativeny:

Thanks for your in-depth reply. I appreciate it, considering you're bone tired. I hope you get some sleep tonight. I think ESPN.360, will be replaying some of those matches, so maybe tomorrow you'd be able to see a replay of the Safin/Nadal match.

"I think Rafa's problem now is mental. He loses his concentration and focus. You never see Rafa double fault twice in a game when he is serving for the match."

I agree it's mental = lack of confidence. I always know when Roddick's confidence is low or he's feeling nervous. He double-faults and can't seem to serve out a set. That happenend to him at DC when he had match points against DelPotro but double-faulted, and you know the rest. DelPotro was able to break and win the match on two points. OY.

I don't know what to say with Nadal at this point, except that his confidence has to be low and it's why he's double-faulting. But, I don't understand the lack of enthusiasm I see. I suppose we'll know more when he meets Safin, and we'll have to play it by ear and hope for the best. Maybe, he's holding back and trying to keep some energy in reserve, but then again, 3 setters is not going to help him in conserving energy, is it? To reiterate, we'll know more after his match with Safin and where he stands with his confidence and match-play overall.

"I think it's funny that people thought you and I were the same person. I guess that's why we enjoy chatting with each other."

I think it's because we write long posts. LOL. Seriously, I enjoy chatting with you as you have insight and are not judgmental. I find it difficult interacting with unreasonable people or those who are just looking for a fight. It's funny, there are those who do that, but then they claim the opposite, that it's me who's doing the fighting. LOL. Talk about transference of guilt. I had a situation where someone picked on me, (she's always picked on me because she hates Roddick) and I answered her. And, another meddlesome poster, who didn't know how it all began, piped in and blamed me for starting the argument. Needless to say, I'm very angry and even though I've kept on posting on a limited basis there, I'm seriously considering not posting at all. Once those tags are hung on anyone it's difficult to shake it off. What's wrong with those people and why they like to be so meddlesome is beyond my understanding. Do they like to behave that way for fun? I'm baffled. What I find to be most puzzling is why they become offended when they attack and there's a rebuttal. I suppose they expect cowardice and that the one they are attacking would meekly fold and run.

Native take care and I'll catch ya later.

Von,

If we were the same person, then we would be talking to ourself with these back and forth posts! Too funny!

I promise to make this short, yay for once! I was on Rafa's official site today and found a link to the third set of Rafa's match with Blake. I got a chance to see the whole set, not just the end when I tuned it again in the wee hours of the morning.

It made me feel a lot better! I think Rafa played some of his best tennis. He got more aggressive, had that look in his eye and was totally focused. He came back from 0-40 to keep his serve and I think that might have deflated Blake. Rafa was playing like a man possessed, dictating play and hitting his shots with precision. I was really impressed watching how it played out. Considering the fact that he had just failed to win the match in the second set, he came out in the third set and played great tennis to simply take the match from Blake.

I am going to try and not overanalyze Rafa's matches. It's something I do all too often and I just end up driving myself crazy. We both know that Rafa is not at his best, not in peak form yet. I don't know how long it will take, but at least he is in there fighting again. I have to remind myself that a few months ago Rafa was out of action. I need to do what I did throughout the US Open - stay in the moment, take it one match at a time and try to remain positive.

I think the feeling you got from Rafa is one of dissatisfaction with where he's at. Rafa is a perfectionist and expects nothing but the best from himself. When you see him looking perturbed, I think he's frustrated that he isn't playing the very highest level of tennis. But he is trying to fight through it and that's a good thing.

Thanks for the reminder about the replays on espn360. In my stupor from lack of sleep, I completely forgot about it!

native....a very...v-e-r-y....early morning to you! like you...i could not sleep....a-t-a-l-l....i think there is a bug going round at uni...and my legs feel like jelly this morning....i dont normally log on at this time...but with a hot water bottle on tummy and hot milk....am half aware! von...too....morning....

i didnt manage to see the rafa match whole...but watched/read snippets of info about it....injuries cannot be overcome so quickly...so though i understand you want rafa to be up and running...and back to his b-e-s-t..more quickly...i think that is too premature....i dont believe in excuses...(and am not trying to say that you are making any..by the way...)...i think that if rafa was feeling 'the pinch'/not ready for the match....he wouldnt play...the o-n-l-y thing he is lacking is m-a-t-c-h-p-r-a-c-t-i-c-e...the more he puts himself out there...the more a-t--e-a-s-e he will feel....i cannot imagine how you and von must be feeling in terms of having missed rafa play for such a long time...if that had been federer....gutted...well...is N-O-T...the word....

native...i appreciate your reply....i will always support torres in terms of him being a federer fan.....if he wants to take up a fight/argument with someone...he can hold his own....like i said...it isnt always one way....and there are definitely some rafa fans (one in particular)...and am certain you will know who that person is....who likes to start as well as get involved in....shall we say.....fiery moments.....it always ends up like this when you disagree with them.....they will be reading this...of course....and see it differently...it isnt always torres that starts a fight....when the slams come....you will see a very different fan....am sure.....dont know what time it is where you are.....what is the time difference...between us?

i wonder what would happen if both roger and rafa were not so popular in tennis....i think this forum would become very boring....dont you?

malty,

It's nice to hear from you. I am in the U.S. out on the west coast in L.A. pacific standard time. If you're in the UK, then I think I am about eight or nine hours behind you. The time difference with these Asian tournaments will be a killer. There is no way I can stay up all night until 4:00 am to see Rafa play Safin. I simply must get a decent night's sleep. A lot of people are getting sick out here and I am not sure if I have bad allergies and/or a bit of a cold. But staying up late and getting stressed over Rafa's matches hasn't helped. Right now it's midnight here and after I write this, I will go off to bed.

I am really getting myself worked up over Rafa and how he is and how he's doing and if he's okay. I think there are a lot of people who have high expectations of him right now. If he doesn't live up to them, then he's not doing well. I say - too darn bad! Give the guy a break! If he wins, then I have to read that he "nearly lost". If he wins again, then I have to read someone on another topic thread trash him and say he is nothing like the old Rafa. I was almost going to stop coming here for a few days, because I am kind of hyper sensitive about Rafa right now.

I know we both love different players and will probably go at it somewhere down the line, but hopefully it will be in a spirit of mutual respect and great discussion. For you it's just kind of a limbo time until your guy gets back into action. I can appreciate your loyalty to your friends on this site. You were very passionate in your defense of torres. There must be another side of torres that I haven't really seen yet. I have seen a few glimpses of it here and there, but not enough to show me what you have indicated. I love intelligent, knowledgeable tennis talk and am looking forward to more of that when we get to the 2010 AO. That one should give us food for thought and tons of long, long posts from me. I have to start editing myself a little more here. I can't even believe I am actually able to write anything coherent when I should be already fast asleep.

Without Rafa and Roger, I don't know that it would interesting at all. We are fortunate to have these two great men. It's nice when we can just smoke a peace pipe and drop are swords, so to speak.

dont edit anything native! get some sleep and i'll pick up on your threads later tonight if you are about...

i think federer deserves the break right now....so many records...so much more to come from him.....just have to be a very patient fan right now....it isnt always easy....I liked your last paragraph in particular.....

Hi malty: Good morning to you too and thanks for thinking of me. I stayed up to watch the matches and now I can't fall asleep. Thankfully, I don't have to work today or else I'd be dead asleep on my feet. LOL. I'm so sorry to hear you're not feeling well. How about some ginger and/or peppermint tea. That always does the trick for my sick tummy. Things are not going your way today, eh? First, no Federer and now malty has a tummy ache. I hope that's all that's not right with you and things will get better. OK malty, that's all for now. I just wanted to say a quick hello to me since you've been so nice to me to include me in your sweet posts. I'll catch ya later.

Hi von!

you seem to be really enjoying TT, and I am really pleased for you...i know that things may change once the slams come along....and that's fine....but irrespective of that....i like reading yours and natives posts....you are very similar and to me....the B-E-S-T of the rafa fans......unlike others who come with caveats.

ginger and peppermint tea sounds good...thanks for the advice....

malterser.i dont get you,..thats just stubborness to say the least mate.... saying federer is 'so good' at managing 'very good' playing style 'very lucky.!! what the hel is wrong with this??? federer himself said al these thngs with his very OWN mouth aftyer wimb 09...he said now i realize how lucky i have been to stay injury free!!! so many factors involved!! whats the big dea??? why not admit?? and i ws not talking abt roger in genral!! saying he has a very good style and is so good at managing seemeed humiliating to you so i think its pretty clear it ws bigg misinterpretation from you part guys!!! and its the intentions that matter...simple words dont count as much as u mite think malte!!! often are u gona hear commentators saying this guy is a solid and good player ! good for the atp tour but when compred to ppl like uis the same person has to be called QUITE XTRAORDINARY..we all know who roger federer is! the most successful player in GS history!!! so i dont get it why the hell were you so desperate to convert 'so good' and 'very good' to phenomenal and amzing !! doesnt make much sense man!or does it??

malty: Thanks for making me feel welcome. I nearly quit here a few days ago due to all the bashing Roddick was getting from the Djokovic fans. I ddn't like the mean stuff that was written, but I'm not going to get into any battles with them and I'll just talk on general things from now on. It seems at times that all the forums are pretty much the same, and I'm a minority being a Roddick fan.

I'm not an all-out Rafa fan. My first choice is Roddick. Nadal began to grow on me, especially after the AO this year and then I became so sad for him when he couldn't defend Wimby. it's at that point I really began rooting for him to do well. however, if Roddick plays Rafa, i will always be rooting for my little *puddle duck*, Roddick. I watched him grow up and was overjoyed when he became USO Junior Champ. Before him, I was a Pistol pete fan. I like to by *American* and keep things in the country. LOL.

@ 10:58 pm, last line: s/b I like to *buy* American.

vamos...'good' denotes satisfactory....and satisfactory is something which federer canNOT be described as....secondly....when you said roger was 'lucky' you have now gone on to explain that word....you referred to wimby 09...but you made out (as picked up by zoey too)...that federer was 'lucky' to win...any of his matches....that is just ridiculous PLUS saying that he didnt have any adversaries....go read the numerous articles out there which defy what you say timeandtime against....that's what irritated me about you....of course i am going to support federer....i have been in that camp for some time now as you know....i thought that your comments to be quite honest were quite derisory about federer....i know you said...'no offence'....but how can a federer fan not be offended if you say he is good...lucky or has had no adversaries....that just doesnt make sense.....also....i dont understand some of the things you say...that could just be misunderstandings/ a language problem? on this cyber forum...so its easily done....but we are just going to have to agree to disagree....

von....like i said....have always read what you said on this forum along with native and did think for a while you were the same person....your writings of long paragraphs with eloquent, analytical, interesting tennis talk was...as I said...refreshing to read....and you are not the only roddick fan....zoey loves roddick...i also love roddick....it was probably the one time in my life that when he was up against federer at wimby...i would not have minded if roddick had won....because he is such a hard worker....he...in my opinion....reinvented himself over the last 2 years with stefanki...and just climbed higher and higher on the tennis ladder.....he has come so close on a number of occasions in the masters series with del potro this year.....cincinnati and montreal....and then before that....wimby....we all know what happened there....but his game has improved...he is lighter on his feet, more speedy...introduced more volleys in his game.....and started to reach higher positions in the slams....did very well to reach QF at FO this year....not even ricky (on this forum) predicted this.....and the thing about roddick is that.....along with federer.......the only two tennis players to be in the top ten.....and hold that position for....almost 10 years now...that is i-n-c-r-e-d-i-b-l-e....i think also'sky' likes roddick...he hasnt been on in a while....but am sure will return soon...also fft (fan4tennis) likes roddick...i think also maxi likes roddick...so quite a few of us out there....dont become someone who just lies down and takes it though von because of what you mentioned earlier about getting into some bother on another forum....read the rules of TT...and you wont go wrong.....you dont swear so there really shouldnt be a problem.....if you dont let your true self come through you are denying what you really feel....and like i said....you and native are the best type of roddick/rafa fans on this forum...by a mile...

Von and Malty,

I just wanted to let you both know that I will not be coming here for a few days. After a tough Rafa loss like the one tonight, the crazies and losers always seem to come out to trash Rafa and take cheap shots. Von, I know you left for a bit when people were gloating over Roddick's loss. Well now I am in the same position. I will not tolerate the creeps that come on this site merely for the purpose of starting trouble.

There is a person with the screen name "Nothing" who posted a vindictive comment about Rafa. I replied in kind and told him off. Then he responded with filthy profanity. I let this person know that I will not tolerate profane language. If the moderators do not ban this individual, then I may stay away. This is unfortunate, but I can handle Rafa's loss just fine. It's this garbage of just trying to get Rafa fans riled up with disgusting insults, that gets to me. I refuse to expose myself to any of it.

I really appreciate both of you. Malty, I have developed an appreciation for your unique style of writing and your intense passion. I have truly enjoyed our conversations.

Just know that I like both of you, and zoey and fan4tennis and some other great people. But it's hard to see my Rafa suffer this kind of loss. He is trying so very hard to find himself again. I have faith that he will get there. I knew in the first two games of the match that he didn't have it. I said before that I get a sense about Rafa. I don't know why or how, but I know when something's wrong. He was flat out there. He was out of it, not playing well at all, his game wasn't there at all. Cilic played like a young man possessed. It was no contest.

Von, now I know exactly how you felt when Roddick had that terrible loss to Kulbot or Kubot, I don't even know the guy's name. But yours was tough because it was the first match. Our guys are struggling and it's tough to see. I just hope physically that Rafa is okay. I had a bad feeling about this guy Cilic. I even had a sense that he would give Murray trouble at the US Open. No way did I think he would beat Murray in straight sets, but I just felt he was a young, talented kid who could be dangerous. That's why I was worried about this match. Rafa had his chances in the second set, but couldn't take advantage of them.

I don't know when I will be back, but know that I am thinking about you. You are special people.

Nativeny: First, let me say that I'm so very, very sorry that Rafa lost. He really tried, but it was not his day. I don't know if you remember what I said after his match with Blake, that something is not right with him and he didn't seem enthusiastic or happy after his win. The word I used was sparkless. I really think it's the abdominal muscle problem, but like the trooper Rafa is, he kept on playing and pushing himself and I suppose hoping things would be fine.

I agree with you that people can be very cruel, not to mention two-faced. It's very difficult to trust them in real life, and I've recently realized doubly worse on the Internet. I've found that out the hard way on the last site I posted, and from visiting a few sites, I can say without a doubt, that it's prevalent all over. I don't know what they hope to gain from being so two-faced and playing games, because the people we meet on forums are faceless, but I suppose ego is involved whereby some like to be popular, and would say anything to gain attention and popularity. The games I see them playing makes me just want to shout at them and tell them they're a phony, but I won't do that and give them the satisfaction that i'm aware they are being two-faced. I've found the worst are those who claim they root for several players -- it's a joke.

Tonight, I read some comments from another forum and one of the posters there, who claim to like Nadal, seemed to care less that he lost. All the talk was about the fave winning the title. We all wish that, but no need to talk about it when a top player has just lost. At least wait until tomorrow. One guy was not just happy that Murray lost his ranking, but is now talking about his fave going after the No. 2 ranking, Rafa's. Not a word of regret was mentioned by the fan of the No. 2 fave in the comments written about Rafa's loss. OY. Is that how a fan of a No.2 fave behaves?

I find this talk of ranking to be somewhat silly because the rankings are so up and down and can change in a few weeks again, so it's ridiculous to rejoice about it. But, I suppose people just like to be cruel. As far as the rankings go, 3 and 4 are about the same and no better than 5 or 6, except 3 and 4 get a better better draw than 5 and 6 and only meet another top 10 player in the SF as opposed to the QFs, but that's about all. Therefore, why would people be so happy when only a few hundred points separates some of the players, and one tournament win could change that again, is beyond my thinking.

On the bright side, now that Rafa has lost, he'll be able to get a couple of days more rest and hopefully it will help his injury.

Nativeny, I hope you'll be back in time for Shanghai. I'm looking forward to Shanghai and hope both our guys can do well there. Roddick has lousy luck as he always seems to get such tough draws; the same with Rafa.

Take care of yourself, and rest up with some additional hours of sleep as a virus is very draining to the body and you dont need to become sick. don't worry about Rafa, things will turn around and before you know it, he'll be back to feeling better and playing like the Rafa of the AO. I'll catch ya later, and all my very best to you for a speedy recovery in body and mind.

malty: Thanks for taking the time to write to me. I'm out of time now, but I'll reply in depth to you tommorrow. BTW, how's the tummy ache? Did you drink the peppermint and ginger tea. Catch you tomorrow malty and take care. until then .....

Von,
not brilliant babe actually....thanks for asking...the tea had no effect....so another early night for me....i may not be around when you are back on...but will touch base with you in the morning....look after native...eh?!

native....are you sure you have the right poster???? (nothing?)....this is the only post i have seen from 'nothing'....

Very sad to see Rafa losing like that, all credits to Cilic. Hope Rafa can win in Shanghai!!!
Nothing , 10/10/09 10:36 AM

i dont see anything bad about his comment? anyhow..i dont think you should be too disheartened.....tho i am a federer fan til i die..(which may be sooner rather than later..the way am feeling right now!!!)...like you said native...two great champions....but we have such high expectations of our fave players...rafa is putting himself through the necessary process....the one thing he had been lacking....match play....more losses....will mean he re-evaluates his game with his team...it can only be a positive..dont you think....i want federer to win e-v-e-r-y match native, but c'mon! gotta be realistic......rafa can only go on to improve.....my god....this time last year (earlier in fact)....i along with millions of federer fans were feeling the goddawful effect of a mini federer meltdown..native...so c'mon! man! just because your guy is still not where you think he should be...arent you glad he is back???? i think the tides turn very quickly in tennis....a few months ago...it was all talk about murray becoming no. 1 (that's all he was talking about)...then roger was going to be relegated to no. 2 and rafa no. 3....novak...4.....no.s 1-4 can go up and down based on one slam...plus an additional tourny...so really...i dont think you have much to worry about.....native...cool down babe...federer came through his malaise....went on to bigger and better things...you are going to get some people who will never like your guy...human nature....just put yourself at a different level/a different place....it helps sometimes....your guy made the SFs....that's brilliant in terms of what he has had to go through this year...dont you think? we fedfans have to wait...(*drubbing fingers on table..stamping foot on floor!) I dont think you are going to find much solace in other forums....i've dug around a few of them in the last hour or so...and it is kicking off e-v-e-r-y-w-h-e-r-e...BUT....you can find more solace reading the positive things that are said about rafa....trust me....been there...as have every other federer fan on this forum....you endure it with your own player...like a second skin...a layer which permeates into your own life...it's ridiculous really cos they dont know who we are/these conversations...but really...this is like a therapy session sometimes for all of us..(the deep thinkers anyway)...not the ones that want to trash all the time....nothing you can do about that native....but i dont think going away is going to help you....get sleep yes...but bounce around like thumper in bambi!!! c'mon!

zoey...thanks for that babe...i will try and catch you later (if up..unlikely tho)..so more like to be morning.... hope fft is reading these posts and realising that there are some people here that do genuinely miss her...if you are reading this fft...dont worry..we can start our bashing again at the slams...am fully aware that we are never going to see eye to eye...just a matter of what is morally right...you know what i am saying babe?

malteser: the highly offensive, unacceptable comment appeared on another thread earlier this morning. I registered a complaint at the time but when I last looked it had still not been removed. This NOTHING nobody should be ignored until he goes away (from the foul mouthed language am assuming it's a male poster).

Hi malty: I'm sorry to hear you're still not feeling well. Maybe, you've caught the flu or a virus, which can take at least 5 days to get out of your system, and sometimes longer, if you've not been sleeping enough. I hope it will be over soon and you'll be back to being and feeling your usual healthy self again.

"von....like i said....have always read what you said on this forum along with native and did think for a while you were the same person....your writings of long paragraphs with eloquent, analytical, interesting tennis talk was...as I said...refreshing to read...."

Thanks malty, I'm flattered and glad to know someone appreciates my comments. It's a pity there weren't some like you on the other site I posted who were appreciative of my comments. I got ridiculed, picked on and criticized for my comments, and some of them harassed me because they didn't like my opinions. A couple of them complained about how many times I posted and even the time of day I posted bothered them -- it was horrible. And, it was made worse by others who liked to be meddlesome and joined in with the bashing. It's a clique there, and if a poster is not liked by some of the leaders, then it's best to leave. The only way to be liked is to pretend with them, (there are a few who play that game very well) by constantly complimenting them and write complimentary stuff, about their faves, even though it's phony, but they get by with it and are liked. Some of them don't want the truth. I speak the truth and it's why I'm not liked. I tried to stick it out, but I got worn out from the constant battles, and I finally decided yesterday to stop posting there altogether. I'm sure a few of them are very happy.

You mentioned that you think I hold back in my comments here. Yes I do, and you're very perceptive -- I do hold back and am very cautious as to what I write. And, it's because of my past experience on that other site. I don't want a repeat of what has happened there over here. However, I can see this site is very different as there are moderators here who would not allow the same thing to happen as on the other site. There's a guy who posts here, who behaves like an angel here, but when he posts over there, he's nasty mouthed to anyone who writes anything that he does not want to hear about his favourite player. A few months ago, he cursed at me for days and called me a liar and several other names because I spoke up when he bashed Roddick.

" ..and you are not the only roddick fan....zoey loves roddick...i also love roddick....it was probably the one time in my life that when he was up against federer at wimby...i would not have minded if roddick had won....because he is such a hard worker...."

Gosh, I didn't know that there are some Roddick fans here. I'm so happy and thanks for telling me. However, why is it that only a couple, Native and Ricky spoke up when the Djokovic fans were bashing Roddick a week ago? One of them said Roddick didn't have any talent, and another said his weapons were made in China. What a put down for roddick!! OUCH, that made me see red. Thankfully, Native and Ricky defended Roddick which made me feel better. I hope that it's not going to get worse, or else I don't see myself hanging around here if it happens a lot, because it's very upsetting to me when I read that stuff, and I don't want any more arguments. I left because of arguments so I don't want to get back into that here.

Anyway malty, I hope this answers your questions about my holding back on my comments, and thanks again for the encouragement. I'll try to keep an open mind and play things by ear. Take care of yourself and get better soon.

i thought i mentioned to you in a post von, i am a roddick fan. but there are anti-fed fans on the rafa team, also in anti-feds in the nole camp. i could be in a continual state of conflict if i jumped on every nugget that makes me cringe, which is what i did the first few months posting here. now i ignore for the most part. i could have spent an hour dissecting vamosrafa's post about fed not facing adversity and posting articles to back up his back problems since 2003 but obviously the dude does not read my posts, so what's the use....lol.... and he claims he is such an 'expert' on RF. an expert at cherry-picking information to feed his favorite blind anit-fed bias is precisely what it is with him.

see...i could go off but i am smiling right now cos it's all tennis and not real world serious issues; this is a diversion not my livelihood.

i mentioned to you that there is a degree of anti-roddick on tt. also some american mocking but that's typical...this is a european site, i get it, whats not to mock? lol.. i recall that evening i was falling asleep, von...sorry i did not speak up. i hope you remain here, you are a wealth of info, von!

hey zoey.....you remember our 'alliance' at wimby those...few..months ago? and I was talking to you about the necessary toilet breaks????....well....sos to be so graphic...but the toilet breaks right now are for a different reason...must be a bug....so couldnt ressist a quick log on for two minutes...anyhow...sounds like poor von has had a time of it....she will come to learn that the forums are all the same...with the odd smattering of nice posters out there..who...although support different players...dont need to swear or bad mouth...

may be...zoe...you and i...have just .....mellowed...a little? (not much...just a lil)....!!! but i sincerely hope that she sticks around...who knows whether we (von and I...or native and I), will disagree with each other endlessly around slam time...but i feel i can cope better now in terms of staying out of the major fights..whereas before...i would get stuck in....who knows????? but as far as vamos goes...i think it might be a language thing...? anyway, i answered his/her post so will leave it at that....

von....just be yourself...you will get on V-E-R-Y W-E-L-L with zoey...and with fft when she eventually brooms on in here again.....ignore the posters on whichever forum you used to f-r-e-q-u-e-n-t.....you cannot educate those that dont want to learn....its about choice (being free)...and controlling that choice (not being 'you')...if you see what i mean? you are not on here to prove the person that you 'are'...but to give an opinion on a player....others will choose how to respond...some better than others...but dont beat yourself up over it...the way that native is right now....von...i never saw the roddick posts....so it might have been a thread i didnt get involved in...if i hadve seen it...i would have said my bit....trust me....

i am into many,many sports...tennis at the top....but i love footy, (soccer), running, athletics, NFL, but stick around von...and just let the true spirit come out of your soul....you are gonna get frustrated otherwise....

time for bed.....ciao...xx

zoey234; Yes, you did mention your support for Roddick. I should have worded my comments a bit differently and inserted you in there. My bad, and my apologies for the oversight.

" i could be in a continual state of conflict if i jumped on every nugget that makes me cringe, which is what i did the first few months posting here."

That's the mistake I made when I initially began posting on the other site and those who were involved have continued to gang up, hound and pick on me, until I finally decided that I'd had enough and am not posting there any more. Maybe, I'll do so again, because I made a few nice friends, but for the present, I'll just hang out here.

Overall, I'm pretty new to blogging and the Internet scene. I made some mistakes which I can't reverse, but in the future I won't do so again. I used to defend those I liked or felt were unnecessarily being targeted, but then I realized the favour was not being returned, and the same people I defended were kissing up to their attackers, who became my attackers. So now they're all friendly, and I'm the outcast. Talk about hypocrisy, it was there. But, I learnt a valuable lesson, that even on the Internet people are two-faced, and maybe more so than in real life. OY.

Yes, there's a lot of anti-American mockery and bashing all over, even on the other site I posted, which is American. It's one of the main reasons I got into arguments with some of the other posters, because I always defend the Americans and Roddick. Once in a while, an American poster would speak up, but for the most part they remained silent, or left, because we were kinda out-numbered, and Roddick is *hated*, and I mean really hated = Von's hated too. LOL. I think a lot of the anti-American stuff is unnecessary and unwarranted, but I'm not about to to change the world, so I just take care of what I can and leave the rest alone.

Are you going to watch the matches tonight? It's an all-American doubles in Beijing Roddick/Knowles (Bah) vs. the Bryans. The US will win a trophy either way, but I'm hoping Roddick will win it, and keep the stars 'n stripes a flyin'...... Take care zoey234, and I'll catch ya later.

malty: I'll catch ya tomorrow. sleep well; you too zoey.

hey von you are making me laugh with the 'giant league' idea, which btw, i had thought about but decided not to embarrass myself .....glad you brought it up cos i think it's the remedy for boring tennis! raise the net and make em work!! no, i won't be watching tennis, not live tennis, anyway. it comes on at an hour that is incompatible with life. the bryans bros are interesting to watch...interesting study in twins. i hope roddick/ knowles wins too. i just hope andy can go deep in shanghai and i believe he will. had a quick look at his quarter and he should be able to take wawa, stepanek and then who? gotta look it up again. out to dinner now...6 pm , my time.

take care yourself, von and keep your humor, even when stuff makes you cringe. OY, is right.

mwah! malt....i do remember our 'alliance', fedfans will need to stick together when
feddy gets back into the game!! i hope you get well soon.

All right you guys, I am back here! I just needed to say a huge THANK YOU to Ed, for having my back. The post in question is on the thread about Rafa getting shredded by Cilic. That's where all the trouble began.

I am fed up with those who come here for the sole purpose of trying incite and rile up Rafa fans. Then when they get a sarcastic reply back, suddenly they get out of control. You will see the profanity in that person's post. I wrote a strong reply and told that person off in no uncertain terms. Then I came on here today to find some person I never heard of before, who decided to jump in on the whole argument attacked me all over the place. What utter nonsense! I have no idea where these people come from or who they are, but their posts are rubbish and have no logic or meaning. They throw around vulgarity like it means nothing.

I do try to pick and choose my fights. But I have had it up to here with people saying that Rafa is just a shadow of his former self, is all washed up, can't beat the best players, on and on and on. So I wrote a rather stinging and cleverly worded, I thought, reply. I guess the attackers are not sophisticated or intelligent enough to reply in kind, so they must resort to disgusting language.

I never like to see Rafa lose like that. I knew almost immediately that he wasn't there. He was out of it. I have seen this before. I know Rafa too well. I don't know the why of it, but it doesn't really matter. It is hard for me to see him like this. I want only good things for Rafa. But I guess this is life and nobody ever said it would be easy. Rafa's not quite there yet. It could be still the abdominal strain or just the mental inconsistency that comes from having to take time off for injury. Whatever it is, I will deal with it. At least Rafa is playing. I just hope he can find his way out of this.

malty,

Thanks for your kind words. It's true that so many wrote off Federer. I knew better. But he came back and showed everyone that he wasn't done just yet. I will hope that Rafa can do the same. I reached out to you and zoey because I didn't want either of you to go through what I did on that other site, the one where I met Von. It's a strong pro Fed site and there is little tolerance for Rafa fans, no matter what they say. It's a war of attrition and the Rafa fans leave, because it's miserable for them on that site. I know what it's like to be in the minority. I like having Fed fans here to keep things interesting. It would be boring if it was all Rafa fans and we agreed all the time. I like hearing from fans of other players. It's what makes for interesting discussion. Maybe I am sensitive right now, but it's because I love Rafa the way you love Fed. I love him inside out and back again. I know that I can't control what some fools will say here. That's why I let some things go. But this person posted something bad at the wrong time and it pushed my buttons. In the grand scheme of things, it's not worth the effort.

Von,

You are such a dear. How generous you are in your comments. You and I are like kindred spirits. I am sick with some kind of cold or virus and am not feeling well at all. Seeing Rafa lose that way didn't help. I try to tell myself that it will get better, Rafa will find his old self. But I worry and wonder. I know you have gone through so much being a fan of Roddick. It was my pleasure to speak up on your behalf. You will always have my support. I wanted you to stay here and it's great to see you feeling comfortable enough to post your thoughtful, insightful comments. There will always be crazies on these sites. You just can't get rid of them. But I draw the line at profanity and vulgarity. I refuse to tolerate that kind of disgusting talk. It has no place here. But if you don't have intelligence and all you can do is come here and insult a player, then get outraged when you are called on it, yet are incapable of responding in a literate way, you go for the profanity.

So you see I couldn't stay away. I did respond to the stranger who joined in after the fact and attacked me so viciously on that same thread. Now I am done with them. I will not respond anymore to people like that. It's a waste of life. I am drained from staying up late to watch Rafa's matches and this virus, so I hope to get some sleep tonight. I didn't sleep well last night. Part of it was Rafa's tough loss and part of it was the discomfort of this bug.

I guess I can't leave all of you. I should remember the good people here and celebrate them.

Thank you all for being so supportive. What's that old saying - this too shall pass? I sure hope so.

By the way, if you think it got lively here, you should see what's going on with one of the Rafa forums. Even Rafa fans are arguing about what Rafa should do, how he should do it, if he should get rid of Uncle Toni, how is he going to beat these tall guys, blah, blah, blah. So even the Rafa fans don't agree with each other. Just reading pages of it gave me a headache. Much better to be in calmer waters over here.

Hi native.....i have been trawling sites to find articles of federer (as i usually do..when i am bored!)...and to let you know there are.......... plenty positives out there...about rafa.....a lot of them headed 'the greatest rivalry in tennis'...anyway...i have found an article on federer...it's not the full one...its on bleacher by..... clarabelle davis....i read a lot of bleacher as i know that zoey does too, and von...in fact most tennis fans...its a great forum..and you can have some interesting debate over there....just slow in terms of time difference sometimes though.....anyway....here is lil sniff of a great article on federer....but also i think you should know (you do already am sure)...that for all the adversities that federer faced, being written off...shunned by some journalists....and rafa fans as well who were rubbing their hands at his misfortunes around that time.....he came back..and boy...native.....HOW he came back....tennis is up and down....and as zoey will tell you...we have been on the roger rollercoaster ride for some time now....they have even named it after him!!! zoey and i have the white knuckles to prove it!!!!! dont be down for too long...i recommend you read the full article....but for rafa...you'll need to click on the link once you read half way down of this article.....as it gives a different perspective....it might fill you up a bit more today....anyway....here goes....(the article is by clarabelle davis on the bleacher report - there are plenty loads there on rafa too.....mainly about fed and the rivalry...but click on the link to rafa....(within this article).....

Under the microscope

The Australian Open was clearly a watershed.

Federer recognised that only extensive rehabilitation would remedy what was becoming a chronic back problem that had cost him the Masters Cup in Shanghai, and then returned with a vengeance after Melbourne.

Although his return to fitness and match-play brought frustrating losses for the remainder of the hard-court season, the real reward from the lay-off began to show on the clay. Quite simply, Federer seemed to be a man reborn.

He signed up, as a wild card, to Monte Carlo to get his eye in. This revealed some new shots, most notably a long-shunned drop shot.

By Rome, a revitalised backhand was reaping rewards, and his movement was back to its free flow. He lost in the semis after a rain-storm broke his concentration and gave Novak Djokovic a second wind, but the signs were good.

Then in Madrid, the reason for all those little shot adjustments became clear. This was the game plan for beating Nadal on clay. Added to the Federer weaponry was a wider, swinging serve deep to the Nadal backhand. This was a play that Nadal had learned to use ruthlessly against Federer. Now it was tit-for-tat. Intelligent tactics, flawless execution, and glittering variety gained Federer only his second ever win against Nadal on clay.

In the event, Federer did not have the opportunity to apply the thumbscrews to Nadal at Roland Garros, though his new range of shots and tactical nous got him through tough matches against Tommy Haas and Juan Martin Del Potro. And what these same two matches also showed was a Federer who was up for the fight, both physically and mentally. He appeared to have a regained the self-belief that he could win from any situation.

This confidence, and a passion to win at all costs, were the outward expression that Federer had changed. What had also changed was the imminent arrival of his first children, and this also appeared to sharpen his resolve. Suddenly he was faced with the prospect of a complete change to his life. And he had things to achieve before that happened. At Wimbledon, he duly claimed Pete Sampras? record and reclaimed the No.1 spot. Job done.



The Momentum Shift

So does this dramatic turnaround in the fortunes of Federer and Nadal prefigure a permanent change in the rivalry? The momentum since the spring has certainly moved Federer?s way, and has continued into the hard-court swing.

He claimed his 16th Masters title in Cincinnati, so is closing in on a new record: Andre Agassi?s score of 17. And Federer came mighty close to winning his sixth U.S. Open, while Nadal wrestled to the semis with more injury.

Most important of all, Federer has shed the huge weight of expectation?that growing pressure to take the Sampras record, all the Slams, and the scalp of his nemesis on clay.

He is relaxed, content and revelling in fatherhood.

He had no qualms about pulling out of the Asian swing to rest up, relax with his family, take in some fashion shows, and head to Dubai for his missed summer break.

Since Madrid in May, he has lost only two matches?the final at Flushing Meadows and in the Montreal quarters?and has chalked up wins against all the five players below him: Nadal, Andy Murray, Djokovic (twice), Del Potro (twice before Flushing), and Andy Roddick. No wonder he is upbeat and laid back at the same time.

He has no coach, but no need of a coach.

He has been in great shape, and has added some new ammunition to his game. He has nothing more to prove, and nothing he hasn?t won. He is simply enjoying the tennis.

my point native is that things change....one minute you think your player is at crisis point...then we gently remind ourselves that...'hey, we are talking about.... g-r-e-a-t athletes....who have off days...so go easy.....otherwise you are going to end up in amental institution by christmas...(I'm on release by the way....!)....

Hi malty: Just checking on your tummy problems -- how ya doin' today?

BTW, isn't Severin Luthi Fed's coach? If he isn't, then what's his function on the team?
**************
zoey: Roddick/Knowles lost in the finals to the Bryans. I'm not disappointed, as I didn't even expect them to make it that far, and they lost to the best doubles team in the world, so no problem there. Anyway, the US still had a flag flying at full mast in tennis, as we had a winner in the Bryans at Beijing, which translates to a very happy Von.

BTW, malty in one of your posts you mentioned someone travelling on a broom. LOL. I usually say that about any female I don't like, and I once said that about a female supervisor at work when she said she'll be at the party. I said: "Yes, she'll be flying in on her well-oiled broom", but I was hoping it would develop a mechanical defect. LOL. I know I was being wicked, but what the heck, it was somewhat justified, if I were to tell you what she did to another woman. Thankfully, it wasn't me who was the recipient of the bad deed, she'd done.

**************
Nativeny: I hope you're feeling better, and somewhat over the virus. Stop hanging out with malty, as you two got sick the same time, what's going on there. anything we shhould know about, do tell? ha ha

Don't worry about Nadal, he'll bounce back. Nearly 90 percent of all players go through ebbs and flows, highs and lows, and it seems as though this is his time. As a Roddick fan, I've become marinated in the sauce of disappointment, since the kid seems to get his fair share of ebbs and flows, and then some. I feel Nadal will be better by the AO, and even though things are not right he's still making it to the SFs in the tournaments he's played since Wimby. Those are great results for a lot of healthy players, much more someone who's playing injured. I like to look at the glass as being half-full instead of half-empty, and I think if you were to do that, you'd be a lot less disappointed, while rejoicing over the positives.

Take care all of you, and I'll catch ya later...... malty I'll be looking for you to breeze in on your broomstick, and happy landings. LOL.

Von,

Do you know this person Alexa who has come over from tennis-x to join in the attack on me on that other thread? She apparently thinks she knows who I am, even though I am using a different screen name. I am disgusted with the garbage and nonsense going on over there. I have tried to refrain from going at it with her again, but I am a fighter by nature. I know you had someone from tennis-x come over her to hassle you.

What is your advice? I trust you. If you think I should back off and ignore this fool, then I will. What is really weird is that apparently she has read a lot of my posts and that's how she figured out who I am from tennis-x. What is with the people over there? They just seem to be spoiling for a fight.

I was also concerned to read your analysis of Rafa on another topic thread. You seem to be convinced that it's the abdominal injury that is still bothering him. I am curious because there is a debate raging on one of the Rafa forums as to whether he should have played in Shanghai. I know he was cleared by his doctor, with the proviso that he not serve at full speed. Could that have been what you were seeing? Rafa holding back and not serving full out? I didn't think he was having physical problems, but maybe I just didn't realize what was wrong. It concerns me, because if he's not healthy, then he won't be able to get back to form. I know that you and malty have tried to reassure me, but it's hard when I don't know if he is healthy. I disagreed with the Rafa fans who said that he should not have played in Shanghai. You must have seen something in his game that makes you think the abdominal is not healed. I thought that Rafa needed to get back in action. But I hope that the abdominal injury isn't acting up. That would be bad news.

Since you have experienced these vicious attacks on tennis-x, causing you to finally leave, I wondered if you had some wise words for someone who is having the same problem here. I feel as though I have to behave perfectly, while others can just say whatever they want. I am outnumbered on that other topic thread, so it's not easy to fight back. I need some support.

malty,

Your friend torres has joined in on the attack against me on that other topic thread. Despite your defense of this person, I don't see us ever getting along. This is another example of torres joining in on a fight that doesn't even concern him/her. Too bad. But it's what I would expect.

Thanks for the bleacher thing. I will have to check it out. You know, I don't need to read positive stuff about Rafa. I just can't stand how he gets trashed when he is struggling. If you are being honest, you will admit that you would do the very same thing for Fed. I have seen you and zoey and torres and others really go at it when Fed gets attacked. So why should I hold back or feel that I have to be silent? Then people gang up on you and it becomes overwhelming.

You can relax now because your guy isn't playing. But what about when he comes back? If he has a tough loss and gets trashed, you will go after anyone and everyone who does it. It's not like I go and tell people to smell their you-know-what. I don't talk like that and never will.

I don't expect to lose my sanity. I don't know about my health, though. I have swollen glands and a sore throat and a lot of congestion. I can handle the fight when I am healthy, but not when I am battling a viral infection. I had a lot of sleep, but still feel under the weather.

It's depressing and disillusioning to see what goes on here. The nice people have to be held to a higher standard and the low lifes get to do and say whatever they want. I am discouraged in general. I can be intense, but have a good heart and genuinely like people.

Nativeny: To answer your question, NO, I don't know who Alexa is. I've never had any interaction with him/her on any topic. If I did, then a different name was used by him/her.

First, let me state that my situation was different from yours as it was mostly Roddick/American related, and the bashings aimed at him and the American players, which I found to be disgusting, as I'm patriotic -- big deal, so what, I'm entitled. My initial post on the other site was in defense of Sampras. He was being unmercifully bashed by some other posters, and I defended him. After that, I noticed, it was not just Sampras who was being attacked but Roddick and the Americans, and of course, I defended them. It seemed to me that bashing of the Americans was a favorite past-time of the other posters, who were mostly Europeans. It was perpetuated in different forms whereby some enjoyed the bashing. Nowadays, I try to just discuss general stuff and it seems to work out just fine. However, I'll still defend my faves when I feel they're unjustly being attacked.

Now that you've mentioned it, with respect to a poster here, I guess I have no choice but to respond. The argument I had with the poster here on this site who was abusive toward me, guess what, it was due to his attack on Roddick also. That poster likes to talk too much, and is extremely filthy-mouthed.

I'd like to mention though, had there been other American posters and Roddick fans who spoke up I would not have gotten into those arguments, because I would have been happy to let them do the defending, as I HATE to argue, but I will if I need to. The few Roddick/American fans there seemed afraid to speak up, and I now understand why. The answer was simple, but I couldn't see it -- they probably suffered the same fate, hence the reason they kept quiet -- about 95% have left. Too bad I wasn't more observant, but I chalk it up to inexperience of blogging as a newbie. OY, was I blind or what?

I gave you a synopsis of what transpired because you've mentioned it and has also asked for my advice on the current situation. Here's what I would do. Considering there are so many Nadal fans here, I would refrain from getting involved in any arguments with any posters who I feel are bashing him. Why? You've got a lot of support here, so let someone else do the defending of Nadal, and let them take the initiative -- there's strength in numbers. If you want to chime in, then do so, but only to a small extent. At least when the others are defending him, you can feel satisfied that his attackers are being put in their place, justice is being done, and you didn't have to do anything. As I said, there is strength in numbers, and it's not your responsibility to see he's being defended. Believe me, the other nadal fans will be so angry, they'll want to do the defending. However, if they see you taking the initiative, they wouldn't. If after the other Nadal fans are done with their defense and you still feel you need to chime it, then do so, but only mildly, and leave it at that. By the time you feel you need to do so, there will be 50 posts and the urge to defend, will be much lessened. In other words, just wait and see. I wish I had the same luxury whereby others would defend my faves. I tell ya I'd be reading and laughing, and I'd suggest you do the same.

Native, I know it's difficult for you because you are passionate, and I hope what I said was helpful to you. Take care of your health because no one else will, not even Nadal.

Von,

You are such a dear. I knew you would give me wise advice. I think I know who this character is from tennis-x. They posted under another name, but I have a hunch about who it is. If it's who I think it is, then you are right, it's best left to others who may want to join in the fight. I needed your calm, sane point of view to help me out here. I think what kind of hurts is that the other Rafa fans didn't come on there to back me up. I was all alone and it seemed like all the troublemakers were drawn there. If you notice, there are some people here who seem to be anxious to become involved when there is an argument. It's the usual suspects.

I know the person to whom you are referring as your own personal nemesis. I have been reading another topic thread and I see exactly what you are talking about. Remember, I was the one who jumped in and supported you when the other person made such rude comments about Roddick. I did it because I like you and wanted to help you out, but also because I know that you are in the minority here as a Roddick fan. You weren't going to get much help, so I had your back. I don't want you to ever feel that you are alone and getting pounded the way you did on tennis-x. I remember one person in particular who really was after you and it got personal and very ugly. I hate seeing that, really hate it.

I am definitely going to take your advice. Right now I know that I'm not thinking very clearly. I do have to take care of my health, because I have asthma and it can act up if I get a cold or a virus. I am fortunate in that my asthma is mild and well controlled with medication, but I don't need to aggravate myself while I am battling a nasty viral infection. You are so very right - not even Rafa can take care of me. Besides, he has enough of his own problems. All the worrying in the world will not help him one bit. It's better for me to try to get rid of this nasty bug and be healthy again.

Did you read what was going on with that topic thread? This person I mentioned to you is really way out there. This kind of internet stalking is positively bizarre. It would never even occur to me to read a lot of someone's posts to try and determine if they are someone with whom I had a grudge. Such a waste of time! It is useless to battle with people who are only here to create havoc and stir the pot, so to speak.

I am passionate as a person and as a Rafa fan. It's who I am and there is no way I can ever be anything but who I am. I much prefer civil disagreement to vicious attacks and insults, but I am also a fighter and don't like to back down. But for now, I will do so. It makes so much sense.

Thank you again for being so understanding, compassionate and kind. You are a very special person.

NNY: Fight the battles worth fighting. Don't expend valuable energy getting into brawls you will never win with people who get their kicks from being disruptive.

native...hi...will talk to you in a second.

von...the 'broom' reference is a long-standing joke with me and fft...she knows that i say it in jest and she is good enough to accept it with a smile......so dont worry...it's my warped sense of humour with fft....we had some massive fights months ago now....she is a formidable lady......but she hasnt posted in a while..though i feel her looking over my shoulder whenever i write something....she wont be offended by that...replied to a post where i mentioned it first time around....so dont worry...it is only meant to make her smile while she is deciding on her next move.....

native....i got into trouble on this site for defending federer a while back now...(before USO).....the word i used was idiot...the person who led me down this dark alley wasnt even reprimanded at that time...though she did have a while away.....may be that was a reprimand...i dont know....but i can tell you i have never sworn....i have also never started an argument....i have reacted badly in terms of letting my greek temper get the better of me...and called names but only when people have called me names....and i have defended myself here...silly, childish behaviour from a lot of people, me included at that time.....and i paid the price....but swearing ....no.....is no excuse...thats for sure.....i cannot answer for other fedfans....generally i think we are a reasonably nice bunch of people doing our own 'thang'...but you know what it is like....someone says something which upsets you....presses your buttons and you react...the only advice i can give you...is b-e-f-o-r-e you hit those buttons....walk away for 10 minutes...make an espresso/have a chocolate...hit a punchbag.....try not to react.....its hard....i'm no angel.....but like zoey, we paid our due...which is 6 weeks in the sinbin and you are a far more eloquent, more objective guy than me....
i can understand your passion...without passion..what is life about? you are dead in my view....but channel your energies wisely...as ed has said above......c'mon native...you found out the hard way yourself in terms of the forum you mention....so choose your battles....for my part....you are an incredible poster....i respect the fact that you enjoy rafa's game....and you accept that federer is also a great player...you dont need to trash federer to support rafa..its the same old argument isnt it? my problem is really only with one poster on this forum...and that is carrie....trust me, she has been close a few times in terms of the things that she has said....i respect passion native, but not duplicity....when someone like carrie who loves rafa..and i love that...really love that....comes on and posts 'nice' articles about federer after week on week, bashing him from all corners, you can understand why i dont trust the woman...she can be nasty....she knows she can be nasty...i dont want to converse with her at all.....she is the worst type of rafa fan....but you see, every now and again....she will do something/say something which takes you on a nice, friendly journey, and then stab you in the back, like she did with her best friend on this forum, fft....they always used to support each other....always...but in my view..that is not a friend...someone who does that.....perhaps carrie will change around slam time...who knows....but it's fft, the woman who i used to get mad at so often....at home...she would just irritate the hell out of me with her comments...now she isnt here...i miss her warped logic sometimes....but she has softened....and carrie has hardened as this forum has progressed.....but carrie and i have agreed to stay away from each other...so we'll see....that's going to be hard especially when she makes up stories about federer to satisfy that longing need she has.....its desperate really.....you no doubt will have a different relationship with her....good luck to you...

so i would just say.....torres...i will support in terms of federer always..he is a true federer fan....if he chooses to have a go at another supporter it can only be because they have said something derogatory about roger....but i havent read all the posts to be able to give a take on it....

as for people coming over from tennis.x to this forum...the only posts i read were from maxi...whom some thought were me.....and she seems pretty tame to me.....quite nice really.........but that's it....a lot of posters here post other places...i know zoey said she posted elsewhere...and i read and post on bleacher all the time....i like their conversations but i also love this forum....mainly because of sky and zoey...whom i adore....i missed them in particular, horribly during the time i could only read....and not post....so native....who cares about this Alexa here...if she starts trouble...take a breath before you reply.....and if it gets too bad then just be prepared for the consequences.....ask yourself.....is it worth it? Youve got some solid friends...fedfriends here....me,zoey...and obviously you have von that you met in a previous life and she is with you....so it goes to show that adversaries can still be reasonably civil towards each other....but as yet....you and i havent really had a major disagreement, until then....we get along....but i know i will think twice now before i reply....should you say something which i really disagree with. just chill a bit and remember this should be a fun discussion.....you had the biggest accolade that a poster ever had from ricky dimon not so long ago who enjoyed reading your posts...so just remember that....everything else is insignificant really...i dont know whether this helps...you are never going to change human nature.....please everyone...be liked by everyone...its just not going to happen.....catch you later.....

Native and Von, you are both new on this forum so some people are trying to influence you by making false allegations against others. The fact is no one gets banned for one offence, malteser's ban came after repeated offences of insulting posters on this forum, so don't believe everything you are told.

I have tried to avoid anything to do with her, but she just won't leave me alone. She is used to accusing people of being on a warning etc. etc. and I can assure that I have never even come close to getting a warning, she has been banned, the evidence speaks for itself, and sooner or later you will no doubt see for yourselves why. I wasn't going to bother responding to the defamation of my character, but I can't ignore it, and I hope I won't have to do it again.

Native you are a Rafa fan so am I, she is trying to drive a wedge between us to neutralise support for Rafa, don't fall for it. You have already found out for yourself that her claims that torres only fights back does not stand up to scrutiny.

malteser, for the last time, pretend I am not on this forum, and stop mentioning me in your posts.

Oh, Native and Von, You can go back to posts earlier in the year and see for yourselves what the truth is, It's all there. When you have time just read posts by certain people who are now trying to paint me as the devil and themselves with a halo, it will be a revalation.

VAMOS RAFA!

ed,

You are a good and kind soul. I will definitely take your advice to heart. Friends have said to me - don't sweat the small stuff. I often forget it. I will be sure not to let myself get drawn into some ridiculous argument over nothing. I see that if you respond, it just feeds their hunger for confrontation and disruption. Thanks againg for your words of wisdom.

malty,

Thanks for the advice. I see that you have been in trouble yourself. It is a good idea to take a few deep breaths and maybe even walk away before jumping into a melee. Sometimes I feel as though I am navigating a minefield here. But I don't remember Ricky Dimon praising any of my posts. Where did you read that? I sure didn't see anything like it.

As far as carrie, she and I have resolved our differences. We know where we both stand. We have disagreements about certain things, but are both diehard Rafa fans. I see that you have quite a history with her. But that is something in which I do not wish to become involved. If I have a problem with her, then I will address it. The same if she has a problem with me. I know you have defended torres and still do. I admire your loyalty. But I remember those who join in with others in bashing me. It's happened more than once with torres. So this is someone I simply do not trust. I try to avoid this individual, because it works out better for me. Maybe torres is a Fed fan who just hates all Rafa fans. But when torres said that he agreed with this nutcase and said that I have some kind of inflated sense of my own importance on this site, he could not have been more wrong. That's simply not who I am. I think everyone is equally important here and all deserve to have their say and express their views. So you see, you have your allies and I have mine. We will always be on opposing sides, given that I love Rafa and you love Fed. I fear somewhere down the road, we may have our battles. But hopefully, we will still be able to laugh and enjoy each other's comments.

Are you saying that you have mellowed these days? I guess I missed a lot of fireworks. But when Fed comes back to play, I have this feeling it will all start up again.

Take care.

Hi Nativeny: Just a short post. I agree with ed, and it's somewhat similar to what I said. Don't get involved in heated arguments and don't sweat the small stuff. Just try to walk away. I hope you're taking care of your health. BTW, are you going to watch Rafa's match vs. Blake? Can you believe Roddick's bad luck? He nearly had to face Kubot again? What are the chances of the same quali ending up in the same player's draw? sheesh. Thanks to Wawrinka, Roddick was spared another round with Kubot, who had wawa on the brink of closing him out in two sets. OY. I'm not looking ahead with respect to roddick -- nly hoping he'd win that match.

BTW, thanks for offering to support me. I need all the help I can get. Take care, and hope you're better soon.

carrie,

First, no one is going to drive a wedge between us. Please give me a little more credit for having the intelligence and awareness to figure out if that is happening. If I get along with malteser, it doesn't mean that I can't get along with you. I realize that you two have a history and it hasn't been pleasant. I am not suprised, since malteser is a passionate Fed fan and you are an equally passionate Rafa fan. But I am not taking sides, so there is no reason to worry.

You and I initially had a disagreement when I first came here, but we have resolved it and it's all good between us. You can see what happened on another topic thread here, what happened when someone trashed Rafa. I immediately went to his defense. But then I got drawn into a silly argument with some crazy from tennis-x. But you know that my heart is, and always will be, with Rafa. We may both have different ways of expressing it, but you and I are on the same side. There is no question where our loyalties are.

I am feeling my way here and trying to get a feel for the people here. If you read my response above to malteser, then you will see that I have made up my own mind about torres. This is a person I wish to avoid at all costs. You don't have to convince me of anything regarding torres. I have seen it for myself. That's how I make up my mind. Once torres jumped into that argument and joined in with the bashing against me, I saw torres' s true colors. This person will always be drawn to arguments. So give me some credit for being able to see people for who they are. Malteser and torres are friends because they are both Fed fans. They will defend each other at all costs. But I have a different opinion about torres and that's that. That last time when torres jumped in for no good reason, well, that was the last straw. Now I will avoid torres at all costs. There is nothing we have to say to each other.

Don't worry about anything. I am a Rafa fan inside out and back again, all the way! We both know where we stand. Nobody can influence me to think anything other than what I decide to think. Don't you remember the post I wrote trying to cheer you up after Rafa's loss to Cilic? That was after I had to watch that horror. But there I was, trying to make you feel better. I know how you feel. I was heartbroken. I hate to see Rafa lose like that. It hurts me terribly.

Just have confidence that I can pick and choose my allies here.

Von,

Do you know when Rafa and Blake are playing? I think it's Wednesday, but what time is that for you and me? You are in the U.K and I am in L.A. in the U.S. It depends on how late the match is scheduled to be played.

I heard about Kubot. Who is this guy and where has he been? So this means that Roddick will face Wawrinka? He can be tough, too. Are you going to watch that match? I have absolutely no expectations for Rafa in Shanghai. I don't know what to think. I only hope that he can beat Blake again. I am sure Blake will want some revenge. Rafa's got a tough road here, worse than Beijing. I just hope he can play better in this tournament. I am just taking it one match at a time and trying, I did say trying, not to look ahead. It won't be easy even getting past Blake.

I am feeling better, but still have a bit of this bug. I rested up nicely over the weekend. I will have to see if I am up to some late nights to watch Rafa this week.

Native: No, I don't know when Rafa's match is scheduled. The schedule should be up tomorrow morning. I know Roddick is scheduled for the last match Tuesday night (I don't know why he always gets such late night scheduled matches). Yes, Wawa is another difficult player. As I said, Roddick has bad luck with draws, period.

Kubot took out Kohls, Karlovic and some other top 20 players this year, so he's no slouch, and he gave Djokovic a difficult time in the Belgrade final-- the scoreline does not tell the true story.

I think that virus has affected your memory LOL. We are both Americans, hon. I live in the sunny state of Florida and you live in sunny LA. Actually Shanghai is better suited to your time than mine. To watch Roddick's match, I'll have to wake up early. I don't know if I can do that. Go to sleep late yes, but never wake up early.

native...von...carrie...i am NOT here to drive any wedge between anyone...and like native said....give the guy a bit more intelligence...plus carrie...dont try and come across the beautiful white angel gabriel here...you know that you have caused problems here...you also know that I have never sworn, never said anything bad about rafa....you go find me any post carrie..go on....live by the words you state...and me? yeah.i can count tens of posts that you have written about federer...nasty...spiteful...posts...so native...am not going to get into a drawn out argument here...it is pointless with carrie....secondly...carrie...stop mentioning your name? yeah....like you 'stopped' mentioning fft's name when she wasnt around?...this is what i mean...duplicity...of the highest order.....if anyone...yes...anyone disagrees with you carrie...you go raving mad...and you know it....why dont you apologise to fft carrie? go on...try it sometime......that's all i am going to say...

Von,

I can't really blame the virus, it's just my memory going as I get further into middle age! Yes, you are so right, NOW I remember that you are in sunny Florida and I am in a soon to be rainy L.A. Does late Tuesday mean late tonight my time? Goodness, I am going crazy trying to figure out the times. I thought I might check out Roddick's match, since I have a fondness for him. I may check some of the live stream sites to see what's on.

I will wait to see what time Rafa's match is, then decide if I will be able to watch it. I really want to see it, but it depends. If I have to stay up late, that I can do. But get up really early, no way!

malty,

I didn't say that you were trying to drive a wedge between us. I said that IF anyone were to do that, I can make up my own mind. I have to trust my own judgement with people on this site. I know that you and carrie have a history and it's not pleasant, but I don't want to get in the middle of it, just like you didn't want to get involved with me and torres. Now that you mention fan4tennis, I do recall carrie talking about not believing that she was a real Rafa fan. Goodness, I don't want to go over all that again! That's between carrie and fan4tennis. I am confident that fan4tennis can take care of herself.

I read people's posts and interact with them and make up my own mind in the end. I am determined to try to avoid fighting with people here, even if it means that I have to grit my teeth and bite my tongue (literally!), when I read more trashing of Rafa. It's not like I am going to be able to singlehandedly stop it. So better to try to ignore it.

I have this feeling that once Fed is back, things are going to heat up a LOT here! I hope you and I will still like each other when it's all over. I think some Fed fans here are just biding their time until the man himself gets back in action. I think they are a bit restless. Then as they say, let the games begin!

Let it ride, malty! Go with the flow! Let's see how many cliches I can think up for you. I got good advice from you, Von and Ed. I will remember your wise words. I just don't want to get into silly fights anymore. I want to talk about tennis. Now I have to try not to worry about Rafa having to beat Blake again!

I have also taken a peek at other topic threads and the Nole fans are positively giddy about the prospect of him edging closer to Rafa for #2. They already are dreaming of bigger and better things. So my guy has to step it up. I would love to be able to come on here and gloat about Rafa. So much better than having to read more boring Rafa epitaphs.

Take care!

Native, I am comforted by your response, sure I know you are of an independent mind and able to make your own judgements. But you know, this drip, drip character assasination does stay in people's minds, and I had decided to ignore it, but malteser won't let go, and if her claims were true it wouldn't be so bad. There is a word in the English language for people who continuosly say things they know to be untrue.

My crime as far as malteser is concerned is not being a Fed worshipper, and I have had my fair share of criticism of Roger, but so have Fed fans against Rafa. Malteser, has been the most insulting to Rafa by calling him semien which is derived from a Greek root word for ape, and she got into very hot waters for that, and spent weeks trying to dig herself out of that particular hole, arguing with an official blogger and others trying to justify what she'd said, and came very close to being thrown out of TT.

Whatever differences I have with f4t is our business, especially as malteser doesn't even know that f4t started it as zoey pointed out to her. malteser hangs over this forum like a dark cloud, it was so much more pleasant whilst she was in the sin bin. I will not stand by and allow her character assasination of me to incite hatred against me. She has a lot of baggage, and don't take my word for it, if you have time, just look at posts up to the FO at random and make up your own mind about who is closer to the truth.

FOR THE LAST TIME MALTESER, REFRAIN FROM MENTIONING MY NAME IN YOUR POSTS, I WANT NO COMMUNICATION WITH YOU WHATSOEVER!

HOW DARE YOU carrie...misinterpret what i said....HOW DARE YOU...Dont ever...ever twist what i said e-v-e-r again.....i am not here to defend myself...to you....get it right who said the word....many months ago....it was torres...and torres will confirm that.....get it right carrie...i put my defence in at that time because i am studying environmental sciences at bristol university and the word which was referred to was dissected ad infinitum...by emeritus professors...and by cheryl murray....who is not an emiritus professor on the topic, and neither are you...it is YOU and only YOU who has brought this up again...NOT ME....i had said nothing wrong....said how attractive i thought rafa was....but moreso federer...you sure forget a helluva lot of information carrie dont you? just cos it suits you....You wouldnt accept any of the emiritus professors arguments despite... me sending you their email addresses and their resumes...you were arguing with people - four people - who have PHD's in the topic...and then you know what you did....you went to check on wikipedia to see if they were correct! ha! wikipedia...a site for volunteers...which changes all the time....and with endless incorrect references...yet i referenced all of my replies to you..and still you would not accept it...because you have a closed mind...make no mistake...i have nothing to say to you at all....you are no fan of rafa....he doesnt even know you exist...and you bleat on about injuries all the time....you make up excuses for him....
secondly carrie.....and this one also is for native and for von....as you are obviously desperate to put your point across....when desperately shameful posters come on here like smartcuty and use disgusting language..which you can actually find more recently...and then for carrie to come on and agree with what smartcuty says about federer....supporting him and saying..how great it is that posters like this come on this forum to say such shameful things about federer...what does that say about you carrie...? you are no better than smartcuty...you speak his language...and dont tell me carrie that you didnt join in the name calling of me.....you know what you called me and i am not going to repeat it here....you are the worst hypocrite of all......thirdly...i dont need to make friends with von and native....they are voting for team rafa...but they respect the great champion that federer is...you dont...you post nasty article after nasty article...and then when you think you have gone a bit overboard....you post a nice one...and even zoey...said he laughed her socks off when you posted that thinking that you were on a different planet....i simply respond to native and von's very eloquent posts from a rafa fan....who are for once....reasonable...something you have never been....so dont throw your weight around here carrie telling me what i did wrong...the incident that i got involved in was not that...and you know it...i have never been derogatory about rafa and i will never be.....you on the other hand have called names...have degraded federer...have joined in with smartcuty agreeing with his disgusting references to federer by practically inviting him to come back and say more.....so look up the posts von and native of carrie....about 7 months ago now..and more recently....and you'll find what you are looking for....you are a joke carrie...get a grip....and by the way....if you say untrue things about me, then of course i am going to respond.....you should learn carrie by your mistakes.....stop saying nasty things about federer......but you never learn....we dont want to hear about how much you hate federer....it adds nothing to the discussion...and dont say i said things that i never said carrie....its playground stuff....Administrator i am not here to cause problems should you see this, but i am not going to be accused of saying things and for carrie to misinterpret them because she knows it adds to her ridiculous interpretation of things.....oh and by the way....character assassination? you do a very good job of that yourself carrie when you turn your back on friends that have always supported you...your character assassination of fft is the reason why she isnt here.....and by the way....this isnt just your forum....believe it or not its for hundreds of people who see what you write carrie....i just thought i'd let you know...in case...you know...you thought it was private?????
FOR THE LAST TIME CARRIE, REFRAIN FROM MENTIONING MY NAME IN YOUR POSTS, I WANT NO COMMUNICATION WITH YOU WHATSOEVER!

dont lie carrie........... then we never have to communicate with each other.....simple as that.....i am really happy to talk tennis with you...but when you have a pop at my reputation here....no sorry honey....no way....grow up...

malteser, stop digging!

carrie...then stop writing incorrect information...then the matter will be closed....i am not here to start anything...you seem hell bent on trying to make my life difficult on this forum....so be big carrie....apologise...admit you are no angel...and try to be more objective with rafa...and stop writing untruths about me...and also try not to pain a picture perfect of yourself to new posters...you are anything but.....you cannot expect me to remain silent when you mis post things...its unfair carrie....simple as that.......but you distort things ...everything i have said is the truth....answer these simple questions:

1)have you ever called me names on this forum? -
Yes you have.
2)have you posted nasty articles about federer and then gone on to post one or two (yeah...its that many)....nice ones.
Yes. you have.
3)have you bullied fft? Yes you have. this is cyber bullying...read the tt rules...
4) Did you support smartcuty in his character assassination of federer? yes you did and you also wanted more and made that clear...
5) does that make you a supportive,nice poster of rafa? No. It does not.
6) have i ever posted anything bad about rafa? Never have i done that. ever...and I wont either..you brought up a word carrie, that i study EVERYDAY that is used in the most positive,scientific way, and it was you that twisted it - not me. and i would ask you kindly to leave it there...because i dont want to go into that whole discussion again which you brought up...no one else....unless you have a Phd carrie in this area, have a bit of respect for people who teach me who have had over 30 years of experience in the area. Go over to Borneo and do a few studies yourself....and see what you find.....Its just plain ignorance otherwise....
I could write a whole lot more carrie...but what is the point...you and i will never like each other...i cannot stand the way you write sometimes...but i genuinely did miss you at one time...but then saw all the horrible posts you wrote about me....and i thought that was low.....you cannot have it both ways carrie.....you just cant......
I learnt my lesson carrie....along with zoey...we both paid our dues....and it was horrible not to be able to correspond with people that you had a link with....i am not a malicious person...passionate yes....but not malicious.....you dont know me...you only see what you want to see.....if i came on here near on every day slating rafa then you have would have every right to have a go at me....but i dont....yet...when the opportunity arises carrie...anything regarding federer...you flood the forum with your blind hatred for the man.....this is what hurts/upsets federer fans.....and you gloat in it....you love the fact that you are the one who posts this nastiness about him......its horrible....and being away for 6 weeks...i have still been able to read things that you have written.....and nothing changes with you carrie...to my mind you are not a nice person.....this is too much bad energy for me to correspond with you.....carrie.....so lets just agree to disagree because this is going nowhere......

i am not here to make friends with von and native....so dont use that one on me.....you know who my friends are on this forum....and i have a list of all the posters who said lovely things about me, and how much they missed me......so for every horrible thing you say about me....it is always balanced with the nice things that others have said...and that is what bothers you.....it just bothers you.....my baggage by the way....is at the airport....lost it when i went to cyprus....but hopefully airline will return it soon....so really..dont you worry about my baggage honey....i'm insured anyway...but thanks for your concern.......

carrie....sorry about this...but just one more thing.....and i'll leave you to tell von and native.....because i dont think you have painted a very nice picture of me.....do you want to tell them what i offered to do for you.....fft and any other rafa fan that specifically asked....if i could.....when i went to wimbledon this year.???...and what i would try and do for you...and for them....? can you remember?.....
you know.....just to be fair.....???obviously at the time i went...i didnt know that rafa had actually withdrawn....but you might want to tell them.......your choice.....

hello malte...well once more huge misinterpretations on you r part mate! i did say wimb 09 wid reference to this luck thing but that wasnt written to mean to roger won tht mtch due to luck! it ws luck may b but actually he saved 4 set pnts like a true champ/warrior to snag that set..what i was referring to was that post wimb09 was the time when roger said ".....i realize how lucky i have been to stay lucky..." that ws said when rafa was injured badly and skipped wimb too! lucky in the sense becoz he got ALMOST NO INJURIES IN HIS PRIME! 3-4 years he played injury free at the top of his game! and this had 3 factors...his playign style ..managing skills and LUCK! so whats so harsh abt roger in this analysis..this was all i wrote and u have been harshly firing back! james blake got his neck devastated in 03 i think while practicing on a clay court!!!!! crased in to the post! now wasnt LUCK involved here? players get injured quite often for no good reason!!! i think u misinterpreted each part so badly malteser ! now u shud be clear abt everythng mate!
Last thig..saying roger's playing syle is 'very good' and his management skills "so good" seem to invoke ut anger...but when some roger FANS say rafa is BORING then dont u think every rafa fan has s rite to just get so angry and simplt pounce on that post????!!! wht makes it worse is that other RF fans and even sometimes YOU show strong support for them?? so watch out what u do ! hard to say this but i often write as i mean it

cheeerss :)

cheers to you vamosrafa....i thought we had sorted out the misunderstandings with the word 'luck' which you mentioned previously? you can understand why i thought you meant roger was 'lucky' per se....but then you went on to explain...so its all cool now..really....lets leave it at that...carrie has taken up far too much of my energy to justify another conversation right now...but i do appreciate you coming back and explaining it vamos....thanks....i know you write as you mean it...we sit on opposite sides and i dont mean you any harm at all......we all strongly support our players....and i am just counting the days for the AO so we can have some proper discussion vamos rather than tittle tattling along...it doesnt make for great conversatuion...does it? and its partly my fault too in terms of misunderstanding the work luck.....so lets just leave it there....

well said :) we all tend to make mistakes so these small tussles take place ..lol..tahts part of the discussions we have..now we have everythng sorted out..clear...its all good..many cheerss..yes lets wait for our players to show their best soon :)

For crying out loud. Am I going to have to start deleting posts again?

cheryl....i didnt bring this up.....please dont blame me this time...i knew this would happen....have been open and honest...you know what the score is....read what i said.....but dont blame me this time.....okay?

wow. Relax, malteser.

wow...you too cheryl....

dear, oh dear, malta

if only you could see how you come across...

vamosrafa...

responding to your post about Roger just winning the sportsmanship award because he was "winning and winning and winning" (sorry,I know it's old but I don't visit here as often as some other ppl. btw,I'm just discussing your opinion and no harms meant at all :) )
....back to the point:
Roger sportsmanship has not 'just' been about controlling his temper,but more about not using gamesmanship against his opponents in anyway,and that has been his character since his early years when he needed to win much more than he does now!!! also that he views other players as friends and colleagues and is quite freindly with them.Roger's poopularity in the locker room is an undeniable fact and has been acknowledged by MANY players,the fact that he puts his opponents "at ease" on and off the court,instead of intimidating them ,is one of the reasons players consider him a good sportsman.
note that he controlled his temper before he dominated the sport. it was in 2001 when he decied he didn't want to be in a racquet throwing contest with Safin. Pete Sampras said their attitudes were similar after their match in 2001.
ppl think:"Fed controlled his temper when he started to win",whereas the truth is "he started to win when he controlled his temper".
about his recent issues:
1st of all he has thrown racquets in his "good days " as well but it was never blown out by the media the way this year's miami incident was.
I don't see how smashing a racquet when your playing HORRIBLE (not being outplayed) and everyone is writing u off,cancels out all the good manners u have shown through out the years,winning or losing.he's human,he got frustrated and made a mistake.
about the USO incident,I'm tired of saying it: :(
he was right to object to the umpire because JMDP was taking too much time to challenge each time(the comms confirmed it)
the umpire disrespected him(or he thought so!),he swore which was wrong,and he had NO RIGHT to(not directed at anyone though). note that coming to this tournament he was in a better position than he's ever been,u could see how relaxed he was at the end of the match.this incident could have happened 2 or 3 years ago in the same context IMO.
so still I don't see how these 2 incidents that show he's human andcan get frustrated TWICE ,cancels out all of his exemplary behavioutr hrough all the years .
since Roger's slump in 07 or 08 ppl are looking for signs that the once mighty Fed reveals his real character(which I find childish,cause u can't hide your real character all these years specially when you're so closely scrutinized).

but I agree with one thing u said,that Rafa can control his temper better than Roger ,but if through all th years in his career Rafa loses his temper once or twice,I won't blame him for it because he's only human.
sorry for my long post and I hope u don't mind me directing it at u,you're one of the nice posters here,and I just meant to give my opinoion,that's all.
cheers!! :D

btw,about Roger friendliness u should read this, vamosrafa:

http://yourvolleyssuck.wordpress.com/roger-federer-is-no t-a-douche

Thanks for the link niloofar. Loved it!